Iraq - No end in sight

[Litti]

Had not seen this documentary before but it gave a pretty good picture about all the mistakes the current government has done with the post-war planning - if there ever was a plan to begin with.

Eventhough the american public has been critical towards the Bush administration, it doesn't seem to be enough after all the facts lie on the table.

-Disbanding a military of 500,000 professional soldiers and leaving them without income or means to support their families. And not having enough troops to secure the ammunition depots after the initial invasion was basically a free handout to the enemy. One could say that Bremer was one of the main architects behind creating the insurgency and should be held accountable (I would lock him up just for good measure).

-I don't know if it was arrogance, ignorance or something else to let artifacts, precious human heritage, be looted in the chaos. The estimates might be way off, different sources give different numbers, but the total cost of looting to the economy was HUGE! How in the hell was this allowed?

-There was a bit about the sheer stupidity of choices, as far as the people in charge are concerned. I personally find it hard to believe that the US would use people who have no experience from vital city planning (traffic) and have just graduated from college , only because they had connections with the republican party. And at the same time there all people who had connections with the old government, lost their place in the society.

The total number of civilian casualties is unclear at the moment (from 100,000 to over half a million) but no-one can argue that the numbers are big and who knows how many more will die in the coming years.

I mean, just a little needed vent after seeing what has happened and what is going on. How can people who are responsible for this mess even live with themselves? The next generation might not view these choices as horrible mismanagement, they might even view it as being partly responsible for a genocide, should there be a brutal civil war in the near future.

[/end drama+rant]

[JKD]

I was never completely sold on the idea of invading Iraq but I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for a time.

But the more that came out it became less "well, mistakes are always made in war" to wondering what the hell did Bush and co. do right. Anything? From complete and total de-Baathification which left amongst others tens of thousands of school teachers jobless and no doubt pissed off, to hiring political loyalists, some directly out of college, to head up reconstruction rather than those who were actually qualified...it goes on and on and just adds up to this mind boggling mountain of incompetence. Certainly not all of the decisions were Bush's but he's "the decider" and the buck stops there.

If Iraq turns out for the best, and I hope it does, it'll be in spite Bush and his administration not because of it.

[vinny_121_ND]

People were hired on to the coalition provisional authority based on whether or not they were republican or not. People who have the right skills, credentials and experience simply didn't get the job to lead the reconstruction.

CPA constantly argued with the military and there was no coordination.
-de baathification
- too slow reconstruction
- not enough troops
- hiring foreign workers that could have been done by iraqis for a lot less
- iraqis were not trusted to even come through the Green Zone
- not understanding the culture, and the language.
- promises made by Bremer were never accurate.
- constant power failure
- iraqi army was disbanded -> no jobs for them
- CPA installed capitalism in iraqi ventures which meant more iraqis were to be fired, and something unheard of in the saddam era. Saddam paid iraqis to sit around at their work places smoking and drinking chai.
Simply put, you can't fire iraqis. How are they going to raise their families? Senior leaders in the baath party can't turn down promotions or else they're going to jail.

All this fueled the insurgency.

The link between AQ and Saddam was pure lie. Saddam banned AQ from operating and training in iraq.

[vinny_121_ND]

There will be a movie coming out called "Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone" documenting how the CPA operated. The going joke was that the CPA was short form for 'Can't Provide Anything'.

[JKD]

There will be a movie coming out called "Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone" documenting how the CPA operated. The going joke was that the CPA was short form for 'Can't Provide Anything'.
That one's been on my "to read" list for a while now. Didn't know they were making a movie out of it.

Frontline had a program discussing a lot for this a while back called The Lost Year In Iraq. The whole thing can be watched here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/

[I can't think of a name]

That book is fiction.

[vinny_121_ND]

jkd, it is definite must read. Bremer made decisions against advice of jay garner and simple put, he made decisions without fully understanding the consequences.

Another good book is "Making a killing", about a UK PSC operator detailing how the insurgency began, and what could have been done to stop it.

[Ritual]

Disbanding of the Iraqi Army, didn't a fairly large majority of it melt away during and immediately after the invasion anyways?

Shiite conscripts going home, etc?

[vinny_121_ND]

Disbanding of the Iraqi Army, didn't a fairly large majority of it melt away during and immediately after the invasion anyways?

Shiite conscripts going home, etc?

No, they didn't melt away. They stopped fighting because the Americans had superior firepower, and were waiting to begin working for the Americans. So, they ended up going home, waiting for it to all end, then realizing a few months later, they no longer have jobs. If some foreign entity came in and told you how things are going to work, how do you think you're going to react?

[clean]

Bremer interpreted 1483 to say "The CPA is the sovereign. Under international law, you are either the sovereign or you are not. It's like being pregnant. The UN was limited in their role under 1483. They were there only to help us."

IMO, this is the attitude that created the tide we are currently trying to turn. As well as 1483.

[svendejong]

That book is fiction.

I red ' imperial life in the emerald city' and if it is a work of fiction a lot of other books about the war in iraq, the way leading to that war must be fiction too.
Can you tell me which events in the book did not happen and what you base this on??