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J-10
01-15-2008, 06:24 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23046185-21147,00.html
Myth of China's new middle class
Rowan Callick | January 14, 2008

MANY people looking from outside at China's development, especially in this pivotal Olympic year, are searching for a floor of familiarity.

They want to be able to find the middle class in China's contemporary social change, David Goodman says in his own chapter of The New Rich in China: Future Rulers, Present Lives, which he edited recently and is to be issued soon.
He says China's transformation is seen as hopeful by those who see an equation between industrialisation and economic development on the one hand and the emergence of a peace-ensuring liberal democracy on the other.

"The argument that these people are 'just like us' is very seductive, especially if it is delivered without any hint of irony," Goodman writes.

But he argues convincingly that the new Chinese middle class is largely the creature, though not wholly intentionally, of the ruling communist party rather than the fruit of an upwelling of economic autonomy or free thinking.

Australia is unusually well blessed with a corps of academic China-watchers of extraordinary insights.

Goodman, a professor at the University of Technology, Sydney, is one of the top echelon, which has generally contrived to free itself of the burden commonly placed on academics in other Western countries, of aligning themselves "for" or "against" the ruling Chinese communist party, or even for or against China.

He was in Beijing last week talking about his intriguing new book which challenges quite a few shibboleths of the global business world, especially of those businesses seeking to sell products or services in China without having an operational base there to gain a longer-term sense of what's really happening on the ground.

Goodman says a parallel is often drawn between China's development since its reform era began 30 years ago and the period of industrialisation in Europe and the US.

At first the new bourgeoisie in the West were a new middle class created by the process of industrialisation. As this process deepened, the modern state became more complex, producing managerial and professional classes, which formed a new middle class that neither owned capital nor controlled the state, but derived income and status from service and management.

The demand for a widening of the franchise and the emergence of liberal democracy during the first half of the 19th century in northern Europe are often seen as necessary results of the emergence of the bourgeoisie, Goodman says.

And the ensuing managerial revolution in the first half of the 20th century is "part and parcel of the development of mass society, mass politics and the welfare state".

The assumption of middle- class behaviour, especially in patterns of consumption, "is to be expected as a function of globalised commercialism," with Gucci, Loewe and Louis Vuitton brands targeted at the wealthy consumer in Shanghai and Beijing, as well as in Milan and New York.

But Goodman insists China's "new rich categories of entrepreneurs are less the new middle class than a future central part of the ruling class". They are quite unlike the 19th-century European bourgeoisie in the extent to which they have emerged from and retain close relationships with the established political system.

For this is not China's first wave of modernisation, as often presumed by those who believe Deng Xiaoping conjured this remarkable industrial machine from an imploded peasant nation.

Goodman points out that in the Republican era (after 1912) there were sustained attempts at modernisation in various parts of China under both warlord rule and colonial influence.

Much of this economic activity was externally owned or sourced, so parts of the economy were considerably better integrated into the world economy by the early 1920s than they would be again until the 1980s.

The establishment of the People's Republic of China in 1949 then underwent renewed and sustained modernisation and industrialisation.

And managerial and professional jobs multiplied, so that during the 1950s the people who filled them became "the backbone middle classes" of the new party-state in China.

Many in these classes were purged during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76, but as they and their families were then restored, "so, too, middle-class reputations rose again".

Some of this group transformed themselves into new-style entrepreneurs during the 1980s, especially as opportunities loomed large to gain from their privileged access to assets.

And what of the entrepreneurs who have emerged more recently?

Goodman highlights "the close associational links between the new entrepreneurs and the party-state; they are neither independent of nor excluded from the political establishment, which on the contrary seeks actively to incorporate them if there is no pre-existing relationship".

This was the chief innovation of Jiang Zemin, who retired as leader five years ago.

He opened the doors for capitalists to join the party.

Many observers wrongly interpreted this as meaning they would take over the party. Instead, of course, the situation is the reverse.

Goodman says the reallocation of state assets over the past couple of decades "sometimes left less than clear distinctions between ownership and management".

In Hangzhou, an entrepreneur was asked if the state assets he controlled had been paid for.

The response was clear: "There's no need. These were previously the assets of all the people, and we are the people."

Goodman believes that even the massive income differentials now being officially conceded (the Asian Development Bank describing China as having one of the biggest wealth gaps in the world today) are understated because of the extent to which business people in China, who tend to be incorporated in the party-state apparatus, enjoy "cost-less (to them personally) access to resources and effectively subsidised income not available to others".

The pattern of economic development in the People's Republic fits more closely that of Germany, Japan and Russia during the late 19th century than that of Britain or the US, he says.

"In those countries, the state played a central role in industrialisation, as opposed to the laissez-faire capitalism of the earlier European experience based on the protection of the individual outside the state."

Goodman says that in China today, "where new entrepreneurs did not already participate formally in the activities of the party-state, particularly at leadership levels, they have now found themselves fully incorporated; and many new entrepreneurs would appear to depend on family networks of influence grounded in the party-state", even extending to small-scale businessmen in the private sector.

Many of these new entrepreneurs have come from the ranks of the professional and managerial middle class. Others, more truly independent, are required to co-operate with the party-state "if they desire to maintain a growth trajectory".

This may mean they are expected to take up a local leadership position, perhaps to surrender some equity to a government body. This is part of what Goodman sees as "a growing imperative for successful business people to join the party".

A common generational pattern is that leading cadres are recruited from the peasantry on intellectual merit, then as they retire their children become business people, "building on the local relationships and networks of influence that their parents have developed". So in China, "ownership, management and control are intertwined in ways that cut across previous analyses of middle (or indeed any other) class behaviour".

And promoting the new entrepreneurs and the new rich as "the new middle classes" fits well the ideological constraint of today's rulers against celebrating conspicuous wealth. All China's classes are increasingly portrayed as middle. It's just that some are decidedly more middle than others.

gregoralex
01-15-2008, 08:38 AM
nothing to say here

Masai
01-15-2008, 09:34 AM
deju vu anyone ?????

Masai
01-15-2008, 09:36 AM
* chinese flame on *

Tibet, need i say more.

* chinese flame off *

Ritual
01-15-2008, 09:57 AM
Hey Mao I think we have enough of these threads for one day lol.

Litti
01-15-2008, 10:15 AM
"China will grow larger", even in MP.net. p-)

ren0312
01-15-2008, 07:52 PM
"China will grow larger", even in MP.net. p-)

China Strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!p-)

Noble713
01-17-2008, 05:12 PM
I love the irony in the way China is developing. You've got a nation that publicly claims to be Communist but is sliding ever so slowly towards Fascism (authoritarian government in league with capitalist businessmen, with a touch of nationalism).

Cipher
01-17-2008, 11:46 PM
* chinese flame on *

Tibet, need i say more.

* chinese flame off *
You can think of Tibet to China as, say, Hawaii to the US. If Hawaii created a new queen and wanted to leave the union would we let them? Absolutely not.

Calanen
01-18-2008, 02:14 AM
You can think of Tibet to China as, say, Hawaii to the US. If Hawaii created a new queen and wanted to leave the union would we let them? Absolutely not.


Reasonably poor example, and not really comparable at all.

Lerclair
01-18-2008, 04:45 AM
Reasonably poor example, and not really comparable at all.
And why not... How and what ways did you think USA got hold of Hawaii ?

KoTeMoRe
01-18-2008, 05:23 AM
Shht, the USA is involved...p-)

Cipher
01-18-2008, 09:17 PM
Reasonably poor example, and not really comparable at all.
Tibet is a part of China; it has been that way since the time of Kublai Khan.

TacoDelRio
01-19-2008, 01:05 AM
"China will grow larger", even in MP.net. p-)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/ChinaDozer1jpgsig-1.jpg

TacoDelRio
01-19-2008, 01:06 AM
And why not... How and what ways did you think USA got hold of Hawaii ?

We killed the Hawaiians! Same exact case! Kudos.

plato
01-19-2008, 01:25 AM
And why not... How and what ways did you think USA got hold of Hawaii ?


What does that have to do with today's Tibet? or with today's Hawaii? Tibetan leaders are NOT asking for independence. Can you compare today's Tibet with today's Hawaii? Regardless how US and China got hold of them. Tibetans are asking for better treatment, not independence. People of Hawaii have the same right to ask for better treatment.

Lerclair
01-19-2008, 09:54 AM
What does that have to do with today's Tibet? or with today's Hawaii? Tibetan leaders are NOT asking for independence. Can you compare today's Tibet with today's Hawaii? Regardless how US and China got hold of them. Tibetans are asking for better treatment, not independence. People of Hawaii have the same right to ask for better treatment.I believe I wasn't replying to you... BTW Changing tact now ? When it suits "it's independence - free Tibet", when confronted from another dead-end angle "It's for better treatment" ?

An Advice - First visit some chinese province of equal development, then go visit Tibet.

plato
01-19-2008, 01:56 PM
I believe I wasn't replying to you... BTW Changing tact now ? When it suits "it's independence - free Tibet", when confronted from another dead-end angle "It's for better treatment" ?

An Advice - First visit some chinese province of equal development, then go visit Tibet.

"Free Tibet" can have many meanings. It can mean independence, but today's Tibetan leaders are NOT asking for independence. I believe I wasn't replying to you, either. I was replying to the statement. Of course, people have to be practical sometimes. When Independence is an dead-end, it would be foolish to not compromise. Didn't the Chinese compromise on the Taiwan issue for the past 50 or so years? Chinese will change tact when the dead-end comes, too.

Equal development is ONLY one of the aspect of better treatment. Tibet is located in remote land, its development level may not be Chinese's fault.

Lerclair
01-20-2008, 01:44 AM
"Free Tibet" can have many meanings. It can mean independence, but today's Tibetan leaders are NOT asking for independence.You mean exiled leaders, don't you ? and "Free Tibet" is, by and large, propaganded for independence..But I believe this is just your personal opinion. The exiled Dalai Lama isn't the only leader.. that's also the Panchen Lama. Before 1949, both shared equal power in Tibet and both was "approved" by the KMT. But most people outside China probably never heard of Panchen Lama. The Western media does choose what to informed the Public... thus largely bias.


I believe I wasn't replying to you, either. I was replying to the statement. Don't kick around tooo much..


Of course, people have to be practical sometimes. When Independence is an dead-end, it would be foolish to not compromise. Didn't the Chinese compromise on the Taiwan issue for the past 50 or so years? Chinese will change tact when the dead-end comes, too.If that's the case, then why the fear of Chinese invasion by the Taiwanese govt.. and US govt ? Because that's still on the table. Taiwan and China is technically still at civil war. Taiwan constitution still states they are the ruler of China.


Equal development is ONLY one of the aspect of better treatment. Tibet is located in remote land, its development level may not be Chinese's fault.As I say, go visit Tibet.

plato
01-20-2008, 03:43 AM
You mean exiled leaders, don't you ? and "Free Tibet" is, by and large, propaganded for independence..But I believe this is just your personal opinion. The exiled Dalai Lama isn't the only leader.. that's also the Panchen Lama. Before 1949, both shared equal power in Tibet and both was "approved" by the KMT. But most people outside China probably never heard of Panchen Lama. The Western media does choose what to informed the Public... thus largely bias.

Don't kick around tooo much..

If that's the case, then why the fear of Chinese invasion by the Taiwanese govt.. and US govt ? Because that's still on the table. Taiwan and China is technically still at civil war. Taiwan constitution still states they are the ruler of China.

As I say, go visit Tibet.

Don't get me started on how the Chinese media inform the public.

What does Taiwan's fear of China has to do with what I said about being "practical" and "compromise"?

I would love to visit Tibet just like my best friend did in 2006. He saw the Chinese soldiers dressed in traditional Tibetan costumes welcoming some Tibetan religious leader. These soldiers were trucked in, and as soon as they unloaded off the trucks they all changed into these costumes. Now, why wouldn't some real Tibetan folks in their real traditional costumes allowed to welcome these religious leaders? go figure!

Lerclair
01-20-2008, 04:43 AM
Don't get me started on how the Chinese media inform the public.Go ahead.. but from what I see nowadays. The Chinese media is not any different from any other nation. There's govt propaganda everywhere... only that other countries found other ways to do so and are quite sophisticated, making their population thinks it's their own opinions, and a fact beyond questioned.


What does Taiwan's fear of China has to do with what I said about being "practical" and "compromise"?Well, while the Exiled Tibetan Leaders sees a hopeless case, and agrees that Tibet would be better under China. Taiwanese is very different.. in that China could, in the future, could take Taiwan militarily, or that when Taiwan declares "Independent".. The Chinese will initiate military options regardlessly, which they had declared openly, for as long as I can remember.


I would love to visit Tibet just like my best friend did in 2006. He saw the Chinese soldiers dressed in traditional Tibetan costumes welcoming some Tibetan religious leader. These soldiers were trucked in, and as soon as they unloaded off the trucks they all changed into these costumes. Now, why wouldn't some real Tibetan folks in their real traditional costumes allowed to welcome these religious leaders? go figure!Maybe that event are for propanganda purposes or simply security details.. Dalia lama still have influence in southern part of Tibet... and when Lamas from another region visits, assassination isn't a far fetched scenario. These two Lama sect are not in good terms for centuries.. they were, in fact, political rivals. I'm not even sure if Bhuddism permits this... whatever happens to renouncing worldly affairs.

Mr X
01-20-2008, 06:39 AM
I love the irony in the way China is developing. You've got a nation that publicly claims to be Communist but is sliding ever so slowly towards Fascism (authoritarian government in league with capitalist businessmen, with a touch of nationalism).

Bravo Bra fu*king vo. Well said that man!

plato
01-20-2008, 02:40 PM
Go ahead.. but from what I see nowadays. The Chinese media is not any different from any other nation. There's govt propaganda everywhere... only that other countries found other ways to do so and are quite sophisticated, making their population thinks it's their own opinions, and a fact beyond questioned.

Well, while the Exiled Tibetan Leaders sees a hopeless case, and agrees that Tibet would be better under China. Taiwanese is very different.. in that China could, in the future, could take Taiwan militarily, or that when Taiwan declares "Independent".. The Chinese will initiate military options regardlessly, which they had declared openly, for as long as I can remember.

Maybe that event are for propanganda purposes or simply security details.. Dalia lama still have influence in southern part of Tibet... and when Lamas from another region visits, assassination isn't a far fetched scenario. These two Lama sect are not in good terms for centuries.. they were, in fact, political rivals. I'm not even sure if Bhuddism permits this... whatever happens to renouncing worldly affairs.

Assassination? Name one assassination attempt in recent years. Of course, if there isn't one, then you can always say that the Chinese did a good job protecting the Lamas.

The Chinese media is very very different from our western propanganda machines. Well, let me just name one difference. There is NO freedom of speech in that country, how about that difference? That is why the US dare NOT to fake WMD evidences in Iraq. They have to report the fact that none was found. China on the hand, kidnaps a child, and lock him up in Beijing. 99% of Chinese don't know about it, why? Why did the Chinese gov dare to do something like this? Because there is NO freedom of speech. So, if the west has a sophisticated propanganda machines, then China has a sophisticated propanganda machines without freedom of speech. So, go on and compare.

Lerclair
01-20-2008, 10:51 PM
Assassination? Name one assassination attempt in recent years. Of course, if there isn't one, then you can always say that the Chinese did a good job protecting the Lamas. Thus security details...


The Chinese media is very very different from our western propanganda machines. Well, let me just name one difference. There is NO freedom of speech in that country, how about that difference? That is why the US dare NOT to fake WMD evidences in Iraq. They have to report the fact that none was found.And it took them a long time to own up... and don't be surprise for a minute that they did not consider planting evidence.. only problem is source of weapon grade plutoniums are traceable. But they dared to link 9/11 to Iraq/Saddam... false evidence such as the aluminum tube and Nigeria Yellow cake at UN


China on the hand, kidnaps a child, and lock him up in Beijing. 99% of Chinese don't know about it, why? Why did the Chinese gov dare to do something like this? Because there is NO freedom of speech. So, if the west has a sophisticated propanganda machines, then China has a sophisticated propanganda machines without freedom of speech. So, go on and compare.I'm surprised that by this time you hasn't heard of US rendition to secret prisons at East Europe, Thailand, Syria to Africa and Gitzmo... In fact, This has been going on since 1960's. Don't tell me this are mainly terrorist, because ...from what I read, after a few years, most of them are dumped back to where they were kidnapped, without ever being charged.

Ordie
01-20-2008, 11:12 PM
Without anti-China biased western media, the Chinese nationalist would not have material for biased anti-American media that would feed biased anti-China media and so on.....

They both deserve each other.....

Lerclair
01-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Without anti-China biased western media, the Chinese nationalist would not have material for biased anti-American media that would feed biased anti-China media and so on.....

They both deserve each other.....So if these Chinese are Nationalist, what would you classify these US folks for anti-China Bias western Media ?

Ordie
01-20-2008, 11:25 PM
So if these Chinese are Nationalist, what would you classify these US folks for anti-China Bias western Media ?

Everytime anytime someone mentions a fact or an opinion about China on MPnet from a non-Chinese point of view, its always negated by the Chinese (PRC) as 'biased western media".

PeoplesPoster
01-20-2008, 11:39 PM
Everytime anytime someone mentions a fact or an opinion about China on MPnet from a non-Chinese point of view, its always negated by the Chinese (PRC) as 'biased western media".

And anytime someone mentions a fact or an opinion from a Chinese point of view it's always negated by the Americans(USA) as "communist propaganda".

See how it works? That's the basic dynamic of any China thread on Mp.net. It's almost not worth paying attention to anymore.

plato
01-21-2008, 02:57 AM
And anytime someone mentions a fact or an opinion from a Chinese point of view it's always negated by the Americans(USA) as "communist propaganda".

See how it works? That's the basic dynamic of any China thread on Mp.net. It's almost not worth paying attention to anymore.

At least it is worth paying attention to by people's poster.

plato
01-21-2008, 03:13 AM
Thus security details...

And it took them a long time to own up... and don't be surprise for a minute that they did not consider planting evidence.. only problem is source of weapon grade plutoniums are traceable. But they dared to link 9/11 to Iraq/Saddam... false evidence such as the aluminum tube and Nigeria Yellow cake at UN

I'm surprised that by this time you hasn't heard of US rendition to secret prisons at East Europe, Thailand, Syria to Africa and Gitzmo... In fact, This has been going on since 1960's. Don't tell me this are mainly terrorist, because ...from what I read, after a few years, most of them are dumped back to where they were kidnapped, without ever being charged.

What secret prison? If they are secret, then why are you still alive and telling us about them? What security details? Do you know ANY assassinations by Tibetans or Chinese on a Tibetan leader in Tibet? What does the false evidences have to do with the media? Did US media make the false evidences about the aluminum tubes? Did the media link saddam to 911?

Let me just point out to you that China ranks 163 out of 169 countries in worldwide press freedom ranking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders) So, go on and keep comparing. And keep on telling us how unfair or bias that ranking is.

US is ranked at 48. I have visited many countries, and I haven't seen any country without any bias in their media. While we all have biases in our medias, but,China lacks freedom of speech.

Ordie
01-21-2008, 05:12 PM
And anytime someone mentions a fact or an opinion from a Chinese point of view it's always negated by the Americans(USA) as "communist propaganda".

See how it works? That's the basic dynamic of any China thread on Mp.net. It's almost not worth paying attention to anymore.

You just proven my point.

Ironically both Anti-China and Anti-USA posters need each other to validate their existence.

Daft Ego
03-10-2008, 07:07 PM
Go Canada!