Israel: Olmert's Coalition Loses Partner.

[walford]

Likud: Shas must quit coalition (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1200475894906&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter)

Likud on Wednesday expressed its appreciation to Israel Beiteinu Chairman Avigdor Lieberman for his decision to quit the coalition and try to stop the dangerous path that the government was leading.

Likud called upon Shas to follow suit so that it wouldn't be a bridge toward dividing Jerusalem and returning Israel to indefensible borders...

...Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef upgraded the party's threat to leave the government on Tuesday and said if Jerusalem is raised in negotiations it would be enough for the party to leave...

"Now that Lieberman is gone, our job is to put the breaks on dividing Jerusalem, we will check on an ongoing basis whether Jerusalem is on the table, but Olmert is not an idiot. He will leave the Jerusalem issue until the end of the negotiations because of us and he will never get there. As long as we are in the government, Jerusalem will not be negotiated over and we will go to the next elections as the defenders of Jerusalem."

Likud MK Yuval Steinitz said Shas was fooling itself by announcing that it would remain in the government in order to defend Jerusalem. "Jerusalem is being cut to shreds on the negotiating table and Shas will ultimately be responsible for the loss of the Western Wall," Steinitz said...

Core issues are a critical point for Israel Beiteinu, which does not believe that the territories and the unauthorized outposts are at the root of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, Lieberman said. "Any negotiation on the basis of land for peace is an inexplicable mistake."“right-wing” “hard-line” “conservative” “hawk”

Lest we don’t know the correct way of viewing this, the above words are coming up again and again in the MSM’s assessment of Avigdor Lieberman’s breakaway from Olmert’s coalition.

Apparently what makes one a “hawk” or “hard-line” is not only refusing a division of the Jewish State with those who in word and deed are dedicated to destroy it. Much worse, it is the recognition that the Palestinians have a zero track record of adhering to any agreements. Zero.

Let us remember that Islamic courts have repeatedly ruled that it is not only permissible, but a Blessed Duty to lie to the infidel if that’s what it takes.

Why Bush is so obsessed with emulating Neville Chamberlain in hoisting a worthless treaty fluttering in the wind is unfathomable.

The true “hard-liners” are the ones who will not abide living in peace with Israel — and that is the vast majority of the entire Islamic world.

Forgive me for being so impolite as to point that out explicitly.

[Cralis]

No no, please. Point things out explicitely. We need MUCH more of that in the world, and MUCH LESS of the wishy-washy maybe-so bull**** we are getting from our leaders. Part of the reason why I don't mind President Bush so much.

[JJC]

Lieberman Nyet!!! This is what I call a true politician who not only speaks, but acts as well in support of his beliefs and stance on issues.

Shas as I understand it, with my limited knowledge of Israeli politics and of Shas, is just one of the most corrupt party that will bend on it's core beliefs if they get some $$$.

I like how the media try to portray Lieberman as some crazy right wing radical. But I say to them give me a ****in break, we are talking about division of the most historic city, in vain!!

[IsraDani]

Lieberman Nyet!!! This is what I call a true politician who not only speaks, but acts as well in support of his beliefs and stance on issues.

rofla fascist psycho that never achieved something in his life except barking?
give me a break.. this kind of people is dangerous almost like hamas and fatah.Im happy he is out.

[Kaplanr]

You two can argue about Lieberman all you want, the description of SHAS is dead-on; the biggest whores in Israeli politics.

[Player]

rofla fascist psycho that never achieved something in his life except barking?
give me a break.. this kind of people is dangerous almost like hamas and fatah.Im happy he is out.

Here we go

Leftie is accusing Lieberman of having lack of achievements... :roll:

You know who is more dangerous to the country than Hamas or Fatah? It's olmert, Barak and the whole government.
I'm also happy he's out, hopefuly this corrupted government will collapse in few time.

[Snoshi]

You two can argue about Lieberman all you want, the description of SHAS is dead-on; the biggest whores in Israeli politics.

Yep.. I still remember when their leader told people that if you would vote for them then you will be blessed in life or go to heaven or something like that.. :roll:

[IDF_TANKER]

Yep.. I still remember when their leader told people that if you would vote for them then you will be blessed in life or go to heaven or something like that.. :roll:
SHAS are basically the Israeli Hamas, only without the terror part.

[IsraDani]

Yep.. I still remember when their leader told people that if you would vote for them then you will be blessed in life or go to heaven or something like that.. :roll:

..and if you walk in jerusalem you see normal people excaping and this weirdos taking over the city.They are just another side of the fanaticism, maybe more kosher than hamas.

[IsraDani]

Here we go

Leftie is accusing Lieberman of having lack of achievements... :roll:

You know who is more dangerous to the country than Hamas or Fatah? It's olmert, Barak and the whole government.
I'm also happy he's out, hopefuly this corrupted government will collapse in few time.

what lieberman did achieve?:|
Compared to Barak he is a plain nothing. I agree with your last sentence btw.

[Mu-Meson]

Lieberman Nyet!!! This is what I call a true politician who not only speaks, but acts as well in support of his beliefs and stance on issues.


And he was in Olmerts coalition of self-serving corruption for how long? If he is as you say he is, then he wouldn't have supported Olmert for so long, would he?

[JJC]

Ye, for Israeli standards I don't think Lieberman is bad when it comes to corruption. Corruption is in Israeli politic blood (and I know bohoo how dare I.) Find me one honest politician there and I'm sure he or she is or was under investigation while in office lol.)

Lieberman a racist?? That Oslo left wing brainwashing scheme in your schools of the peace loving Arab tale is still having affect? Not the Palestinians nor the Arab counties wasted their time with peace propaganda in their schools; no, they wasted no time teaching their kids what they still intend.

Lieberman is a racist because he openly calls out against Arab MKs who don't hide their hate for the state and people that shelter and feed them? He calls out against those Arabs in Jerusalem that celebrate in joy after every suicide bombing and every Hezbullah rocket?

SHAS is corrupt and do sell themselves to anything, but I wouldn't ever call them "Israeli-Hamas" or try to create extremists out of them because they are Torah observant Jews.
As a secular person I'm proud of every Haredi or any other orthodox sect for who they are and what they stand for, even with a lot of disagreements. I'm never ashamed to call them my fellow Jews even if they wouldn't accept me. Considering the history of the ongoing conflict NO other religion in the world would CREATE LESS radicals that would blow themselves up or wantonly murder people than the Torah Observant Jews like Shas. I advise anyone to visit a Haredi home or even a "settlers" home and witness what kind of values their children are taught with.

Barak a hero? in 4,000 years Jerusalem was never a capital of any other empire, colony or state. It is because of people like Barak who have no knowledge or appreciation for their rich history and heritage have it easy deciding to split it without the people even knowing of what the plans were. Today the world talks of 2 Jerusalems as if it's the truth, and if you tell them otherwise even a lot of Israelis would call that person a "right winger."

I'd rather see SHAS like "weirdo" children populating Jerusalem because it's more than just an ancient place that everyone fights over for them. A Jew is a Jew because of Jerusalem. Considering with the silent Holocaust in today's world that's is just as worse than the physical one, why not be happy that at least these people will pass the Jewishness on to the next generations, when us the secular ones won't preserve Judaism for much long.

[alexz]

rofla fascist psycho that never achieved something in his life except barking?
give me a break.. this kind of people is dangerous almost like hamas and fatah.Im happy he is out.

It's a strong accusation, what proof do you have he is a facist or a pscycho?
If you claim Fatah is as dangerous as hamas (and it is) doesn't it go against the whole "we got a peace partner" crap the left has been working so hard to convince everyone?

[IsraDani]

It's a strong accusation, what proof do you have he is a facist or a pscycho?
If you claim Fatah is as dangerous as hamas (and it is) doesn't it go against the whole "we got a peace partner" crap the left has been working so hard to convince everyone?

From where we should start? from the fact that he wants to drown people in the sea (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=315541) or that time he said that Israel need to use the same methods of the russians in Chechenya?
I see him like the typical fat guy in a pub that loves to speak loud but has never achieved something in his life.
You may like or dislike Barak,thats not important,but that guy showed balls of steel many time in his carrer.This makes him more suitable for the role rather than a fatty corporal that loves so much to protest but fails to give any kind of feasible idea.
Regarding Jerusalem, sorry... it is divided since thousands of years (barak is only 60 i believe) and I have some proof it is also an arab city at least for an half.

As for the haredim (our blessing:cantbeli:) you wouldnt hear a single israeli that is not sick tired of them,their behaviour and their blood-suck of taxes.Would you want an israel full of haredi people with stinky buses,no ikea on saturday,200 nukes and the goal to restore the ancient israel? thats good.I would be glad to spit on my passport that day.

[gilgoul]

@IsraDani

The sooner this govt falls, the better, nekuda.
The sooner a government made of Israelis who are not ashamed of what they are is elected, the better.

You can say whatever you want about Lieberman, but as much as he lost credibility for only being in this conglomerate of corrupts and opportunists who made the word politician an insult, he is still doing the right thing.

What makes me wonder about you is your self inflicted suicidal naivety, and your apparent hatred of a large portion of our population.
The split we are witnessing in Israeli jewish society comes in part from the complete lack of consideration of the left for what the other Israelis think, while paying so much attention to whatever blurb published or broadcast abroad.

If the architects of the so successful Oslo peace plan were that right, how come all the dire predictions of the "fascists" as you call them proved true?

[JJC]

Regarding Jerusalem, sorry... it is divided since thousands of years (barak is only 60 i believe) and I have some proof it is also an arab city at least for an half.

As for the haredim (our blessing:cantbeli:) you wouldnt hear a single israeli that is not sick tired of them,their behaviour and their blood-suck of taxes.Would you want an israel full of haredi people with stinky buses,no ikea on saturday,200 nukes and the goal to restore the ancient israel? thats good.I would be glad to spit on my passport that day.

Yes, please provide me links with proof that Jerusalem was once a sovereign capital of other groups than Jews.

I know a lot of Israelis don't like Haredim, it has a lot to do with secular zionist education. As for your limited knowledge of Haredim or other religious groups, you should really try to learn about Judaism and it's history. If for secular zionists Judaism as a whole was not important, they should have taken Uganda, you would have less Kasam rockets today.

[alexz]

From where we should start? from the fact that he wants to drown people in the sea (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=315541) or that time he said that Israel need to use the same methods of the russians in Chechenya?
I see him like the typical fat guy in a pub that loves to speak loud but has never achieved something in his life.
You may like or dislike Barak,thats not important,but that guy showed balls of steel many time in his carrer.This makes him more suitable for the role rather than a fatty corporal that loves so much to protest but fails to give any kind of feasible idea.
Regarding Jerusalem, sorry... it is divided since thousands of years (barak is only 60 i believe) and I have some proof it is also an arab city at least for an half.

As for the haredim (our blessing:cantbeli:) you wouldnt hear a single israeli that is not sick tired of them,their behaviour and their blood-suck of taxes.Would you want an israel full of haredi people with stinky buses,no ikea on saturday,200 nukes and the goal to restore the ancient israel? thats good.I would be glad to spit on my passport that day.

LOL,
Liberman statment was blown out of proportion and context as usuall by the exreme left wing haaretz. His expression was similar to "they can all go to hell", which would be interpreted by haaretz that Israel is looking for a portal to transfer them to Azazel. Since when is Russia a facsit state? what wrong with the method used by the Russian to win that war? You think tha allies used better techniques in WWII? if they wouldn't then you and your family
(and main) would have been bars of soap! How can Barak be suited for any rule after his disastrous exist from Lebanon in 2,000 lead to the horrors of 2006. Your logic is to reward someone for catastrophic mistakes?
You share the same view about Jerusalem as Liberman, you ko nkow that????
There were no Arabs there thousands of years ago, so please stop reinventing history?
Again, how are your racist views about haredim different then libermans views
about them?? I think your discovered your inner facist.

[IsraDani]

LOL,
Liberman statment was blown out of proportion and context as usuall by the exreme left wing haaretz. His expression was similar to "they can all go to hell", which would be interpreted by haaretz that Israel is looking for a portal to transfer them to Azazel. Since when is Russia a facsit state? what wrong with the method used by the Russian to win that war? You think tha allies used better techniques in WWII? if they wouldn't then you and your family
(and main) would have been bars of soap! How can Barak be suited for any rule after his disastrous exist from Lebanon in 2,000 lead to the horrors of 2006. Your logic is to reward someone for catastrophic mistakes?
You share the same view about Jerusalem as Liberman, you ko nkow that????
There were no Arabs there thousands of years ago, so please stop reinventing history?
Again, how are your racist views about haredim different then libermans views
about them?? I think your discovered your inner facist.

Hey.Take a breath.
Ha'aretz is not a communist brochure like you are painting it, in fact its our most prominent newspaper and its a widely known fact.Many articles and battles of its journalists are not even belonging to the field called "left", so I dont honestly know what you are talking about.
You advocate a Chechnya solution for Gaza and WB.Good:no respect of the intl and humanitarian law,no respect for the code of ethics (I notice you are disrespecting the IDF one now, if you ever swore on it).You proved my point.I call the deliberate massacre of civilians a fascist act.Also if it can achieve a military result.Who is going to level Gazah dunam by dunam with all the civilians? Or kick their asses on the way for Egypt?or drown them?You? Barkings as usual.
Said that, you're right.Also a joke like Lieberman share some good ideas.Civil unions for ex.I have to disappoint you on Jerusalem: you perfectly know he wants Gaza as swop(the 1.5M people who lives there will take some bath..).
There were no arabs at the time of David, we have them now and they are milions. Its a fact you cant deny.Again, whats the lieberman's proposal for put an end to the conflict? I dont see one except an easy and populistic "lets kick their dark asses to jordan!"(his plan for the triangle is an uthopy).
Haredi jews: I dont like fanatism in any direction.So you're right, I dont like them but of course i respect their share of individual liberty.Its called democracy.Their thoughts often (watch the Shas..) collide with this concept instead.
We had many protest movements in politics during our history,Yisrael Beytenu is just another one that catch the hottest spirit and make them vote a political nonsense.Hopefully he will disappear in the future like all the others.

[IsraDani]

@IsraDani
If the architects of the so successful Oslo peace plan were that right, how come all the dire predictions of the "fascists" as you call them proved true?

I replied most of your points on my post above.Regarding this last sentence I have to say I dont think Rabin nor Barak took peace proposal as an easy task.Do you think a man like Rabin was happy to shake the hand of a bucther like Arafat?Not at all.But he had the courage to take all the steps needed for peace.Unfortunately we saw they are not ready for that.So does that implies I have to drop my hopes for peace? No. Every single meter of the damned state of israel is built on the hope for a better future.Also the anthem.This is a noble tought some politican will never be able to catch.

[alexz]

Hey.Take a breath.
Ha'aretz is not a communist brochure like you are painting it, in fact its our most prominent newspaper and its a widely known fact.Many articles and battles of its journalists are not even belonging to the field called "left", so I dont honestly know what you are talking about.
You advocate a Chechnya solution for Gaza and WB.Good:no respect of the intl and humanitarian law,no respect for the code of ethics (I notice you are disrespecting the IDF one now, if you ever swore on it).You proved my point.I call the deliberate massacre of civilians a fascist act.Also if it can achieve a military result.Who is going to level Gazah dunam by dunam with all the civilians? Or kick their asses on the way for Egypt?or drown them?You? Barkings as usual.
Said that, you're right.Also a joke like Lieberman share some good ideas.Civil unions for ex.I have to disappoint you on Jerusalem: you perfectly know he wants Gaza as swop(the 1.5M people who lives there will take some bath..).
There were no arabs at the time of David, we have them now and they are milions. Its a fact you cant deny.Again, whats the lieberman's proposal for put an end to the conflict? I dont see one except an easy and populistic "lets kick their dark asses to jordan!"(his plan for the triangle is an uthopy).
Haredi jews: I dont like fanatism in any direction.So you're right, I dont like them but of course i respect their share of individual liberty.Its called democracy.Their thoughts often (watch the Shas..) collide with this concept instead.
We had many protest movements in politics during our history,Yisrael Beytenu is just another one that catch the hottest spirit and make them vote a political nonsense.Hopefully he will disappear in the future like all the others.

Haaretz is a communist newpaer which thinks a Jewish state is an absurd
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/924238.html
and whose editor David Landau (who looks like the twin of dead terrorist Rantisi) recently calld the US to rape Israel.

It has 60-70K papers in daily circulation in comparison with 300K-600K ogf yediout and 250K of Maariv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Israel

I never called to massacre civilians nor do I think the reoccupying Gaza is a good idea, as the divsion and hate between hamas and fatah terrorsit is good for Israel. However, if Israel is in war then "respect for the code of ethics" doesn't apply to those whose aim aim it is to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible and never heard about the code of ethics.
Lieberman doesn't want a single inch from Gaza, No body does, not even Gazans. He calls for land swap. i.e instead of dismentling Jews towns in Samaria, move them into Israeli rule, whilst Arab towns like Um el Fahem will move to Palestinian control. This way no one loses their homes and each lives under the government they want. It's a win win solution exept to those that don't want Israel to be a Jewish state (Like haaretz).
Libernman wants the palestinians to have the arab neighboorhoods of East Jerusalem http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3457501,00.html
as part of the land exchange solution available at
http://www.beytenu.org.il/83/1246/article.html
Read, think and then comment.

[gilgoul]

I replied most of your points on my post above.Regarding this last sentence I have to say I dont think Rabin nor Barak took peace proposal as an easy task.Do you think a man like Rabin was happy to shake the hand of a bucther like Arafat?Not at all.But he had the courage to take all the steps needed for peace.Unfortunately we saw they are not ready for that.So does that implies I have to drop my hopes for peace? No. Every single meter of the damned state of israel is built on the hope for a better future.Also the anthem.This is a noble tought some politican will never be able to catch.


I can understand your point, I may have even shared it once, in a long forgotten lalaland past.
But you didn't answer my comment.
There is a great difference between making every effort for peace, and selling away (for very cheap at that) the country.
I may not agree with all the proposals of Lieberman, but he makes a point that the "liberals" of this country fail to understand, if our arab population so much want's to be called "palestinian", then they should either be brought under the sovereignty of the PA by a land swap, or by being invited to join their brethen they seem to be so fond of.

If you could guarantee to me today that splitting jerusalem and ethnic cleansing between 200 000 to 500 000 jews out of Judea and Samaria would bring a true peace, as promised during the Oslo years, as promised by Barak, (who was ready to go lower than his knees and risk a civil war to please Clinton and try to get the signature of Arafat on a final status)
I'd say I would consider it.

But this!
Splitting Jerusalem,
Transferring up to 500000 jews out of their homes
renouncing access to the mountain aquifer
Renouncing to the Beekaa
Renouncing to the support of world jewry
Taking in hundreds of thousands of hostile arabs so called "palestinian refugees"
All of that to get the split smile of Condi and a half handshake from Abbas?

Do you think anyone is going to thank us?

This is a death sentence to the State of Israel.

The peace process failed because it was based of the naive estimate that the Palestinians genuinely wanted a state next to Israel.
It has been proved once an again, and again, and again, that this is not the case, and that concessions only help persuade our enemies that our end is near.

And BTW, stop reading haaretz too much.
I know, this is the only paper that doesn't look like a british paparazzi rag, and has some good articles.
But this paper has been infiltrated to the top by a few people with an extremist anti Israel view, while the concurrence only care's about sell numbers.