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Snoshi
01-20-2008, 06:16 AM
A senior Saudi royal has offered Israel a vision of broad cooperation with the Arab world and people-to-people contacts if it signs a peace treaty and withdraws from all occupied Arab territories.

In an interview with *******, Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former ambassador to the United States and Britain and adviser to King Abdullah, said Israel and the Arabs could cooperate in many areas including water, agriculture, science and education.

Asked what message he wanted to send to the Israeli public, he said:
"The Arab world, by the Arab peace initiative, has crossed the Rubicon from hostility towards Israel to peace with Israel and has extended the hand of peace to Israel, and we await the Israelis picking up our hand and joining us in what inevitably will be beneficial for Israel and for the Arab world."

The 22-nation Arab League revived at a Riyadh summit last year a Saudi peace plan first adopted in 2002 offering Israel full normalization of relations in return for full withdrawal from occupied Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese land.

Israel shunned the offer then, at the height of a violent Palestinian uprising in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

But it has expressed more interest since the United States launched a new drive for Israeli-Palestinian peace at Annapolis, Maryland, last November, aiming for an agreement this year.

Prince Turki, who was previously head of Saudi intelligence, said that if Israel accepted the Arab League plan and signed a comprehensive peace, "one can imagine the integration of Israel into the Arab geographical entity."

"One can imagine not just economic, political and diplomatic relations between Arabs and Israelis but also issues of education, scientific research, combating mutual threats to the inhabitants of this vast geographic area," he said.

'Arab Jews'

His comments, on the sidelines of a conference on the Middle East and Europe staged by Germany's Bertelsmann Foundation think-tank, were some of the most far-reaching addressed to Israelis by a senior figure from Saudi Arabia.

The desert kingdom, home to Islam's holiest shrines, has no official relations with Israel, although both are key allies of the United States in the region.

"Exchange visits by people of both Israel and the rest of the Arab countries would take place," Prince Turki said.

"We will start thinking of Israelis as Arab Jews rather than
simply as Israelis," he said, noting that many Arabs historically saw Israel as a European entity imposed on Arab land after World War Two.

Prince Turki, brother of Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, holds no official position now but heads the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh.

He said Israel could expect some benefits on the way to signing a treaty and making a full withdrawal, noting that after the 1993 Oslo interim accords with the Palestine Liberation Organization, regional cooperation had begun and Israel had achieved representation in several Arab states.

Those Israeli advances were reversed after the outbreak of the second Palestinian Intifada in 2000.

Israel was wary of the Arab League plan partly because it would entail handing back the Golan Heights captured in the 1967 Six-Day War, as well as redivision.

But an Israeli participant at the conference, Yossi Alpher, co-editor of the Bitter Lemons Israeli-Palestinian Web site and a former senior intelligence official, welcomed the comments.

"I was delighted to hear Prince Turki's description of the comprehensive nature of normalization as he envisages it within the framework of the Arab peace initiative," Alpher said.

"His remarks should encourage us Israelis and Arabs to deepen and broaden the discussion of ways to reach a comprehensive peace, implement the Arab peace initiative and reach the kind of cooperation that his highness described."

Alpher said he hoped that once there was a comprehensive peace, Israel's Arab neighbours would accept Israelis "as Jewish people living a sovereign life in our historic homeland" and not as "Arab Jews" or "European Jews"
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/946355.html

MG 3
01-20-2008, 08:38 AM
Deplomacy rocks! Talk sweet about something that something will never happen.

[WDW]Megaraptor
01-20-2008, 08:55 AM
I would like to see what Prince Turki defines as "Arab Land."

Because that term tends to mean "The West Bank and Gaza Strip" in the West and mean "All of Israel" in the Middle East.

DID
01-20-2008, 10:05 AM
I think he guess that the jewish people will convert to Islam (or die) this the pacific side of Jihad but dont misunderstand him if it dont work they will again use the violence

Kletterbuxe
01-20-2008, 11:23 AM
but itīs a pretty interesting development that saudi are willing to talk with israel. thats new.

Snoshi
01-20-2008, 11:25 AM
but itīs a pretty interesting development that saudi are willing to talk with israel. thats new.

They have been talking with Israel for a while now.. Because now there is a common enemy.

DID
01-20-2008, 11:27 AM
nothing new there, and in a general way nothing can be called "new" in politic

tanks_alot
01-20-2008, 02:02 PM
So, basically he's saying that they'll stomach peace with us by pretending we are Arabs? p-)

haze99
01-20-2008, 05:00 PM
22 Arab countries? Shouldn't that be 22 Islamic countries? Since when did Syrians and Egyptians become "Arab"?

[WDW]Megaraptor
01-20-2008, 05:04 PM
22 Arab countries? Shouldn't that be 22 Islamic countries? Since when did Syrians and Egyptians become "Arab"?

Since 1200 years ago when they were conquered by Arabs???

JJC
01-20-2008, 05:18 PM
22 Arab countries? Shouldn't that be 22 Islamic countries? Since when did Syrians and Egyptians become "Arab"?

When Arabia expanded a long time ago and turned Egyptians from building complex pyramids to building Muslim Brotherhoods.

Once Arabs accept Israel as "Arab-Jews," King Faisal can then easily boast of Arab contributions to science and technology and not have to recall that they introduced the zero digit to the West when they adopted it from India a thousand years ago.
I hope the quartet is taking down good notes on his majesty Faisal's proposals, cause they sure sound very promising in reaching that "road map for peace."

pacifist
01-20-2008, 05:25 PM
No surprise, they are same people anyway.

Ulytau
01-20-2008, 05:29 PM
22 Arab countries? Shouldn't that be 22 Islamic countries? Since when did Syrians and Egyptians become "Arab"?

Syria and Egypt member of Arab League,also he was speakin about this too i think.. :)

Player
01-20-2008, 06:19 PM
No surprise, they are same people anyway.

Who do you mean are the same people?

pacifist
01-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Who do you mean are the same people?


Semitic cousins? :)

muck
01-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Deplomacy rocks! Talk sweet about something that something will never happen.
I would actually like to see that happen, just to learn whether Israel's right on existence would then still be questioned or not.

The offer is a kind of accolade for Israel in my humble opinion. The Arabs got to know they cannot get rid of the Jewish state easily, so they are now trying to get along with it.

It is of course a selfish offer as well. Those who threaten Israel, like OBL, are a danger to the royal house, too.

3rdMillhouse
01-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Israel is never going to leave the Golan heights, let alone the other territories.

Player
01-20-2008, 06:46 PM
Semitic cousins? :)

It's true that Jews and Arabs are both of a Semitic race but it doesn't mean we are the same, actually we are totally different.

Referring to the point you stated in previous post - Being located in the Middle of the Middle East and being from the same race as the Arabs isn't the reason why the Saudi prince offered these conditions.
As others have already said - it's a pink dream talk with political agenda, not because Israel won't quiet Arab land (which he most likely means all of Israel), but because the Arabs themselves aren't able to meet these conditions, can you imagine Islamists living in peace with infidels? I can't. Well at least the history proved it more than once, more than twice, and so on...

Dean1962
01-20-2008, 11:22 PM
Israel is never going to leave the Golan heights, let alone the other territories.

:roll:

Israel has often stated that they would be willing to give up the Golan in return for a comprehensive peace treaty with Syria. I could see that happening in an implausible but rosy future, but I cannot ever see the day that Israel will give up Jerusalem. Don't forget, the Arabs consider Jerusalem to be occupied territory, and to the Israelis, giving up Jerusalem is unthinkable. Could anyone imagine the Arabs giving up Mecca? Jerusalem is the heart and soul of both the Jewish state and the Jewish religion in the same way that Mecca is to the Arabs, and the Saudi offer undoubtedly includes Jerusalem as one of the occuped territories that Israel would have to give up. The Saudis know this very well, so in the end, all it is politics... wasted words and hot air. In the battle for public opinion, it is playing well in the Middle East, but in the end, to the West and Israel, it's a dead deal.
There are some people who will say that it is an opening position for peace negotiations, but if it is, it is just as silly. It is a position that leaves no negotiation room for Israel, and they would reject it out of hand, and understandably so.

Dean.

DID
01-21-2008, 03:22 AM
Israel is never going to leave the Golan heights, let alone the other territories.
let me tell you that Israel will leave it, its only a question of time. I say that not because its my wish but because our govt is probably one of the most stupid we ever had. I dont see anything that could prevent it in case of a possible peace accord with syria

Holycrusader
01-21-2008, 03:33 AM
It's true that Jews and Arabs are both of a Semitic race but it doesn't mean we are the same, actually we are totally different.
(...)


IMHO, not so totally...

gilgoul
01-21-2008, 03:59 AM
IMHO, not so totally...

Please develop, I feel it could be quite interesting p-)

gilgoul
01-21-2008, 04:06 AM
About the "generous" offer of the wahabist "prince", it simply says, if Israel ceases to be Israel, and if it becomes so weak that only a small push will finish up jewish sovereignty in the tiny part of the Dar Al Islam the zionists call Israel, and is known as western Syria for the rest of the Arab world, we are willing to normalize our relations with an entity from which we'd be glad to pump out as much technology and know how as possible.
Well, what about a comprehensive non aggression treaty for now?
And in 20 years, when we all have seen for ourselves that we can live side by side without blowing up each other, we move forward to some fuzzy peace and love relationship?

In between, just stop funnelling monies to Hamas and stop the antisemitic propaganda in Saudi Arabia.
And well, also allow jews to visit Saudi Arabia (not that there is too much fun to go there).

Holycrusader
01-21-2008, 04:22 AM
Please develop, I feel it could be quite interesting p-)

I think the differences should be developing first...

Freedom-Fries
01-21-2008, 07:52 AM
Megaraptor;2995938']I would like to see what Prince Turki defines as "Arab Land."


the ancient Abbasid empire ?
the Pyramids ?
all of North Africa ?
the old Umayyad kingdom ?
Jakarta Indonesia ?
Eastern Turkey ?
the Spanish peninsula ?
brooklyn new york and all those taxi cabs that don't allow beer or pork ?
perhaps the planet Mars ?

dangerclose
01-21-2008, 08:15 AM
:roll:
Could anyone imagine the Arabs giving up Mecca? Jerusalem is the heart and soul of both the Jewish state and the Jewish religion in the same way that Mecca is to the Arabs, and the Saudi offer undoubtedly includes Jerusalem as one of the occuped territories that Israel would have to give up.

Dean.


Yeah but the arabs' claim to jerusalem is that mohammed rode the winged-horse pegasus to Jerusalem's Wailing Wall and said a prayer. This happened in his sleep. Sounds like a legitimate claim to me. End the occupation now.

Snoshi
01-21-2008, 08:17 AM
Yeah but the arabs' claim to jerusalem is that mohammed rode the winged-horse pegasus to Jerusalem's Wailing Wall and said a prayer. This happened in his sleep. Sounds like a legitimate claim to me. End the occupation now.

It does not even mention Jerusalem....

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15066

dangerclose
01-21-2008, 08:24 AM
It does not even mention Jerusalem....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15066


I know it doesn't. Minor overlooked detail there.

Snoshi
01-21-2008, 08:25 AM
I know it doesn't. Minor overlooked detail there.

Yeah i know.. I just provided background info.

dangerclose
01-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Yeah i know.. I just provided background info.

I see.


1,946 posts and counting!

Freedom-Fries
01-21-2008, 10:33 AM
Yeah but the arabs' claim to jerusalem is that mohammed rode the winged-horse pegasus to Jerusalem's Wailing Wall and said a prayer. This happened in his sleep. Sounds like a legitimate claim to me. End the occupation now.


So some dude named Muhammed had a vision about flying a horse to Jerusalem. You know the more the talmud, qoran, bible, buddhism scrolls etc go under scientific scrutiny the less ground they have to stand on. Who is to say anyone's LSD-induced visions weren't divinely inspired?

Ulytau
01-21-2008, 11:06 AM
So some dude named Muhammed had a vision about flying a horse to Jerusalem. You know the more the talmud, qoran, bible, buddhism scrolls etc go under scientific scrutiny the less ground they have to stand on. Who is to say anyone's LSD-induced visions weren't divinely inspired?

It called Burak not a horse only a mount..Some of Miniature art workers showed as a ''horse''..Also Jerusalem important for 3 religions..