Iran: If Holland broadcasts anti-Islam film, we'll reconsider ties

[Snoshi]

Alaeddin Boroujerdi, the Chairman for the Committee for Foreign Policy and National Security of the Islamic Consultative Assembly in Iran, referred to the expected broadcast in Holland of a film that presents the Koran in a negative light.
"If Holland will allow the broadcast of this movie, the Iranian parliament will request to reconsider our relationship with it. In Iran, insulting Islam is a very sensitive matter and if the movie is broadcasted it will arouse a wave of popular hate that will be directed towards any government that insults Islam," Boroujerdi said according to the IRNA news agency. (Dudi Cohen)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3496710,00.html

[cbreedon]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....

[Elemental666]

Sad day in Holland, I'm sure.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....
2nd that. woot

[haze99]

Ha! How do you like that? Sever ties! Like what are the Dutch really getting out of their "relationship" with Iran? (Most favored-nation trading status?) Ah, air the program anyway. You won't be the only country, they already hate!

[DID]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....

we should absolutly but it will go against our idea of freedom of speech.

[Ulytau]

Just another mistake after cartoon crisis..Extremist is extremist..Just another thing %100 extremists gonna use it for propaganda..When everything gonna be okay in Afghanistan cartoon crisis..When violence start to down in Iraq this crisis..If i know true Geert Wilders want about this movie and most of people dont care him in Netherlands..

[Evil Scientist]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....

I concur


also
...In Iran, insulting Islam is a very sensitive matter

Well it's a good thing than this country of ours isn't in the middle of .. Iran

Earlier today i posted a vid about free speech from a well known dutchie which can be found here.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127280
he has some very good points.

[pacifist]

Why do iranians even care what we in the west think of their precious islam. It's not our thing.

[Calanen]

It is so important that this regime not dictate foreign policy from afar. Appeasement never works. I hope the Dutch stand firm.

[Mr.K]

Any other source that this israeli website that demonises anything iranian/mulsim?

[Snoshi]

Any other source that this israeli website that demonises anything iranian/mulsim?

hahahaha... I geuse you missed this and i would like to see some proof from you about "demosing"

Alaeddin Boroujerdi, the Chairman for the Committee for Foreign Policy and National Security of the Islamic Consultative Assembly in Iran, referred to the expected broadcast in Holland of a film that presents the Koran in a negative light.
"If Holland will allow the broadcast of this movie, the Iranian parliament will request to reconsider our relationship with it. In Iran, insulting Islam is a very sensitive matter and if the movie is broadcasted it will arouse a wave of popular hate that will be directed towards any government that insults Islam," Boroujerdi said according to the IRNA news agency. (Dudi Cohen)

[Mu-Meson]

I find it a quite sad testament to the state of the world, that it is a common, everyday expectation for Muslims to be violent. Nobody expects Christian riots, or Buddhist riots, but Muslims. Oh of course.
Also, that if you say anything that could be remotely portrayed as negative about Islam, then there will be riots, death threats, casualties, and then YOU will be branded the extremist for provoking it, and not the bloodthirsty, rampaging mobs.
Its very Orwellian.

[Mr.K]

hahahaha... I geuse you missed this and i would like to see some proof from you about "demosing"

Every time Iran farts or burps, ynetnews is here to blow it out of proportions and you're here to bring it on MP.net.

Mu-Menson, same thing with the Jews , (even saying the three letter word can be perceived as an antisemitic offense), except that instead of a riot you get a major lawsuit and a "nazi label".
Like you said, its very Orwellian.

[Snoshi]

Every time Iran farts or burps, ynetnews is here to blow it out of proportions and you're here to bring it on MP.net.

Provide evidence.. Because right now you are just trolling

[3rdMillhouse]

Those Islamofacist bastards fail to understand that here in the west, we have evolved from the primitivity of living a life centered around religious extremism.


I find it a quite sad testament to the state of the world, that it is a common, everyday expectation for Muslims to be violent. Nobody expects Christian riots, or Buddhist riots, but Muslims. Oh of course.
Also, that if you say anything that could be remotely portrayed as negative about Islam, then there will be riots, death threats, casualties, and then YOU will be branded the extremist for provoking it, and not the bloodthirsty, rampaging mobs.
Its very Orwellian.

Truth be said, we had our share of bloodsheds with the crusades and the inquisition, but that was back in the 11th century to the 18th century. We have evolved, we're more civilized.

Sad that those moderate muslims do not have the balls to stand up against those enraged madmen, who twist the meaning of their religion for their nefarious agendas.

[shocker1]

The Dutch have undeniable rights. The Great Persian cannot thwart the will of the Dutch people to realize their dreams and watch movies. It is the right of all nations to pursue progress in entertainment.

[Mr.K]

Snoshi
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119047&highlight=ynetnews
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127041
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126575
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126047

Thats a few, without counting your other sources and other very biased media that you post here to fuel the anti-muslim settlement.
Sorry I don't have the time or patience to go trough the 250 threads you started.

[Snoshi]

Snoshi
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119047&highlight=ynetnews
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127041
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126575
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126047

Thats a few, without counting your other sources and other very biased media that you post here to fuel the anti-muslim settlement.
Sorry I don't have the time or patience to go trough the 250 threads you started.

All of those threads are about todays events that makes news on other sites too..
Most of the Ynet's material is coming from *******,AP or AFP... Just read most of the articles.. Did any of the articles you presented proved that i fuel anti-muslim settlement?

[shocker1]

I do not always agree with snoshi, however I do appreciate his threads and discussion. If you have nothing to add but pissin on him, take it to the PM.

[tanks_alot]

Snoshi
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119047&highlight=ynetnews
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127041
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126575
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126047

Thats a few, without counting your other sources and other very biased media that you post here to fuel the anti-muslim settlement.
Sorry I don't have the time or patience to go trough the 250 threads you started.

So, you posted links to two threads about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a link about Arab-Persian hostilities and one about Iran denying the fact that Jews have immigrated from Iran to Israel. you've established that Snoshi is biased and is interested in certain topics (obviously as most MP.net's members) and you've informed us that Jews are just as bad as Muslims.

Now that's all great, but what does it have to do with this thread's topic?

[Mr.K]

Ynet is a tabloid.
It's not the articles itself but the very cliché "we must never give up to those tyranical iranians/muslims" reaction that you find after your posts.
You don't seem to post much about peace efforts and negations.

So, you posted links to two threads about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a link about Arab-Persian hostilities and one about Iran denying the fact that Jews have immigrated from Iran to Israel. you've established that Snoshi is biased and is interested in certain topics (obviously as most MP.net's members) and you've informed us that Jews are just as bad as Muslims.

Now that's all great, but what does it have to do with this thread's topic?

Don't put words in my mouth. Snoshi asked me for proof that he posts ynet articles, he got them. Someone complained that the "evil muslims" over react when their religion is mentioned, i responded that they're not the only ones doing that. Should I post all the threads he started? I'm not here to expose him, I'm manifesting my disagreement with the way he presents things, and I'm not the only one.
That's all.

[Player]

Snoshi
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119047&highlight=ynetnews
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127041
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126575
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126047

Thats a few, without counting your other sources and other very biased media that you post here to fuel the anti-muslim settlement.
Sorry I don't have the time or patience to go trough the 250 threads you started.

I don't see anything anti-Muslim there, what I see there are facts that were reported by many news agencies.
Or do you follow the commie principle of "All news must be good news"?

[Snoshi]

Don't put words in my mouth. Snoshi asked me for proof that he posts ynet articles, he got them. Someone complained that the "evil muslims" over react when their religion is mentioned, i responded that they're not the only ones doing that. Should I post all the threads he started? I'm not here to expose him, I'm manifesting my disagreement with the way he presents things, and I'm not the only one.
That's all.

I dint ask you for proof that i post Ynet articles.. I responded to this

ynetnews is here to blow it out of proportions and you're here to bring it on MP.net.
Where does Yney blow it out of proportion?
Evil Muslims? I have nothing against moderate muslims who are willing to debate.. I am against fanatics and i dont care which religion they belong to may they be christian, muslim or jewish.
I present things without a comment(most of the time)

[oldsoak]

It is so important that this regime not dictate foreign policy from afar. Appeasement never works. I hope the Dutch stand firm.

'kin oath !
Hope the Dutch tell them where to get off.

[muck]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....
x2. True words.

[tanks_alot]

Ynet is a tabloid.
It's not the articles itself but the very cliché "we must never give up to those tyranical iranians/muslims" reaction that you find after your posts.
You don't seem to post much about peace efforts and negations.


Don't put words in my mouth. Snoshi asked me for proof that he posts ynet articles, he got them. Someone complained that the "evil muslims" over react when their religion is mentioned, i responded that they're not the only ones doing that. Should I post all the threads he started? I'm not here to expose him, I'm manifesting my disagreement with the way he presents things, and I'm not the only one.
That's all.

I honestly don't care about your opinions on Jews, Muslims, Ynet or Snoshi, so i'll repeat my question:


but what does it have to do with this thread's topic?

You got a problem with Snoshi, than take it to PM, don't bore the rest of us.

[Evil Scientist]

It is so important that this regime not dictate foreign policy from afar. Appeasement never works. I hope the Dutch stand firm.

The movie will come I'm sure, but all will suffer the consequences as they're likely to mess with the oil again. And then someone will have to bend over either forwards or backwards to make nice again. Strengthening Irans believe of the rightous path.

[Hollis]

You got a problem with Snoshi, than take it to PM, don't bore the rest of us.


Good point and let me add, if anyone has a problem with someone, you can take to PM, put the person on Ignore, report the post, BUT!!! Do not battle it out in a thread.

[koloftoo]

I have as much love for Islam as I do for the rest of them Abrahamic religions. Which is on par with my feelings toward stomach flu and halitosis. The Dutch can do whatever they bloody hell please within their borders. But fair is fair... and so can the Iranians. So I don't want to hear pipsqueak out of the chickenhawk squad once Iran launches the retaliatory zionist cartoon contest or hold a Holocaust seminar.

But there is something to be said about a little more tolerance for each other's idiosyncrasies. I don't like where our world is heading...

[Hollis]

I have as much love for Islam as I do for the rest of them Abrahamic religions. Which is on par with my feelings toward stomach flu and halitosis. The Dutch can do whatever they bloody hell please within their borders. But fair is fair... and so can the Iranians. So I don't want to hear pipsqueak out of the chickenhawk squad once Iran launches the retaliatory zionist cartoon contest or hold a Holocaust seminar.

But there is something to be said about a little more tolerance for each other's idiosyncrasies. I don't like where our world is heading...



What Iran fails to see or understand is the Dutch government is not a dictatoral government as the Iran is. The Dutch can not violate basic freedoms like the Iranis can.

[Lion of War]

I wasn't able to find another link backing it up.But what ever.Not the biggest tragedy in the world.

[koloftoo]

What Iran fails to see or understand is the Dutch government is not a dictatoral government as the Iran is. The Dutch can not violate basic freedoms like the Iranis can.

Whether the Iranian government is dictatorial or not and whether it's following the norms and wishes of the Iranian society is up for debate and personal interpretation. We only deal with our perceptions of reality.

[Hollis]

Whether the Iranian government is dictatorial or not and whether it's following the norms and wishes of the Iranian society is up for debate and personal interpretation. We only deal with our perceptions of reality.


And your trying to say?

[koloftoo]

And your trying to say?

that your argument about the dictatorial iranian government and personal freedoms has nothing to do with it.

[Hollis]

that your argument about the dictatorial iranian government and personal freedoms has nothing to do with it.


I think your aluminum hat is too tight. What I was saying that the Dutch does not have the power to limit or stop this. Just like the US government does not have the power to limit M. Moores movies, Irani Government does have the power. Just because they can do it, they may not realize the Dutch can not do it. Just as the West is accused of not understanding other countries, this may also be with case with Iran.

[Kilgor]

I have as much love for Islam as I do for the rest of them Abrahamic religions. Which is on par with my feelings toward stomach flu and halitosis. The Dutch can do whatever they bloody hell please within their borders. But fair is fair... and so can the Iranians. So I don't want to hear pipsqueak out of the chickenhawk squad once Iran launches the retaliatory zionist cartoon contest or hold a Holocaust seminar.

But there is something to be said about a little more tolerance for each other's idiosyncrasies. I don't like where our world is heading...

Yeap, and Iran can hold a holocaust seminar, which made them look even more stupid in the eyes of the free world.

The Dutch can do as they please, they are a role model for a open free society. Iran can be hypocritical and complain, while peddling the image of the west's constant inference in Islamic lands and affairs.

[koloftoo]

I think your aluminum hat is too tight. What I was saying that the Dutch does not have the power to limit or stop this. Just like the US government does not have the power to limit M. Moores movies, Irani Government does have the power. Just because they can do it, they may not realize the Dutch can not do it. Just as the West is accused of not understanding other countries, this may also be with case with Iran.

My aluminum hat is quite comfortable, how bout yours?

Let me repost the relevant parts of my message before we go through the loop again.


The Dutch can do whatever they bloody hell please within their borders. But fair is fair... and so can the Iranians. So I don't want to hear pipsqueak out of the chickenhawk squad once Iran launches the retaliatory zionist cartoon contest or hold a Holocaust seminar.

[Lion of War]

Yeap, and Iran can hold a holocaust seminar, which made them look even more stupid in the eyes of the free world.

The Dutch can do as they please, they are a role model for a open free society. Iran can be hypocritical and complain, while peddling the image of the west's constant inference in Islamic lands and affairs.

Freedom of Speech remember? p-)

http://youtube.com/v/p2QMQi-m63E

[Hollis]

My aluminum hat is quite comfortable, how bout yours?

Let me repost the relevant parts of my message before we go through the loop again.


I will try one more time, Since you seem unable to understand what I am saying. Iran may not realize the Dutch do not have the same controls over their people as the Iranis do. OK...

If Iran understood that the Dutch are unable to do anything about it, what is the purpose to threaten the Dutch government?

[koloftoo]

Yeap, and Iran can hold a holocaust seminar, which made them look even more stupid in the eyes of the free world.

The Dutch can do as they please, they are a role model for a open free society. Iran can be hypocritical and complain, while peddling the image of the west's constant inference in Islamic lands and affairs.


Hey I didn't say let's hold a popularity contest to see who's liked best in the West. It's about upholding freedom of speech, right? In that case I don't want to hear whining about the intolerant and evil Iranians when they do something quite similar to what's happening here. A little consistency for a change...

[Hollis]

Freedom of Speech remember? p-)





What are you trying to say? There is no absolute free speech? What was said that conference made Iran look poorly in the eyes of the Western world. Nothing about limiting anyone free speech.

[koloftoo]

I will try one more time, Since you seem unable to understand what I am saying. Iran may not realize the Dutch have the same controls over their people as the Iranis do. OK...

If Iran understood that the Dutch are unable to do anything about it, what is the purpose to threaten the Dutch government?

I understand... Look, the point I'm trying to make here is that the Netherlands and Iran are two sovereign and independent nations, with their own forms of governments, norms, social mores and traditions. How the people of these countries choose to run their lives and organize their governments is their own business. You are not the arbiter of what is a legitimate form of government for others and what level of social freedoms must exist in all other societies. So far so good?

Now once again, I did not criticize the Dutch for exercising their right in making the movie or the Dutch government for allowing it because of their laws or how they choose to enforce them. All I'm saying is don't complain when the Iranians choose to exercise their freedom of speech in a similar pointless endeavor. Are we on the same page now?

[California Joe]

I have as much love for Islam as I do for the rest of them Abrahamic religions. Which is on par with my feelings toward stomach flu and halitosis. The Dutch can do whatever they bloody hell please within their borders. But fair is fair... and so can the Iranians. So I don't want to hear pipsqueak out of the chickenhawk squad once Iran launches the retaliatory zionist cartoon contest or hold a Holocaust seminar.

But there is something to be said about a little more tolerance for each other's idiosyncrasies. I don't like where our world is heading...

If all the Iranians have to fear from the Dutch is a few cartoons I think they'll live. If all the Dutch get in return is a few silly holocaust denials and some evil western satan caricatures with the odd flag burning thrown in I think they too will survive.

It's when silliness sparks riots and beheadings that they should probably get concerned that they are dealing with an irrational society firmly ensconced in the middle ages.

The fact that Iran thinks they can strongarm an open society halfway around the world is rather presumptuous on their part. Haven't they seen what happened in 300?

[Hollis]

I understand... Look, the point I'm trying to make here is that the Netherlands and Iran are two sovereign and independent nations, with their own forms of governments, norms, social mores and traditions. How the people of these countries choose to run their lives and organize their governments is their own business. You are not the arbiter of what is a legitimate form of government for others and what level of social freedoms must exist in all other societies. So far so good?

Now once again, I did not criticize the Dutch for exercising their right in making the movie or the Dutch government for allowing it because of their laws or how they choose to enforce them. All I'm saying is don't complain when the Iranians choose to exercise their freedom of speech in a similar pointless endeavor. Are we on the same page now?

Try re-reading my posts, where did I say Iran should do anything? Where did I say the Dutch should do anything?

Don't bother me again.

[koloftoo]

If all the Iranians have to fear from the Dutch is a few cartoons I think they'll live. If all the Dutch get in return is a few silly holocaust denials and some evil western satan caricatures with the odd flag burning thrown in I think they too will survive.

It's when silliness sparks riots and beheadings that they should probably get concerned that they are dealing with an irrational society firmly ensconced in the middle ages.

The fact that Iran thinks they can strongarm an open society halfway around the world is rather presumptuous on their part. Haven't they seen what happened in 300?

History is best learned from cartoon books and CGI effects, I know. Iranians are a little behind times at this point. You forgive'em that. They still read books and stuff.

And the Iranians and the Dutch can riot and kill each other in their own countries to their hearts' content. As long as they don't go over and do it in the other country.

[California Joe]

I agree, I learned all about WWII from Sgt. Rock comics and Hogans Heroes. And I don't have a problem with internal riots either. It's just that whole "whacky religious nuts, that really want us dead, with nukes" thing that bothers me.

Of course, we could always elect Huckabee and beat them at their own game...p-)

[koloftoo]

Yeah I know... but on top of the religious nuts I'm also afraid of the "Patriotic nuts with nukes who want us dead", the "communist nuts with nukes who want us dead", the "democratic nuts with nukes who want us dead' and few other nuts. I guess it boils down to how dogmatic and irrational you are, regardless of the flavor.

[seraosha]

Ah, relativism.

I hope Holland has a nice quiet few months, but I'm not holding my breath.
Those poor schmucks with their liberal immigration policy may be facing riots that make Paris's look like picnics.

[Love Cyprus]

We in the West consider freedom of speech to be a very sensitive matter, may we should reconsider our relationship with Iran....


so broadcasting an anti-Islam film is freedom of speech? introducing Islam or another religion as a bad(so polite lol) religion to people has been freedom of speech?

Good!

I am not defending Iran or Holland another country, sometimes being objective is what human being need.

There is a thin membrane between freedom of speech and insulting.

[Billy No Mates]

so broadcasting an anti-Islam film is freedom of speech? introducing Islam or another religion as an evil religion to people has been freedom of speech?

Good!

I am not defending Iran or Holland another country, sometimes being objective is what human being need.

There is a thin membrane between freedom of speech and insulting.

I havent seen the film and neither i suspect has whichever Iranian theocrat that has made this threat,so we dont know if it crosses the line between challenging and thought provoking to hateful insults,either way its still nothing to do with Iran .
I hope the Dutch don't kowtow to the extremists the same way we did over the Satanic Versus furore as it set a very dangerous precedent .

[Love Cyprus]

I havent seen the film and neither i suspect has whichever Iranian theocrat that has made this threat,so we dont know if it crosses the line between challenging and thought provoking to hateful insults,either way its still nothing to do with Iran .
I hope the Dutch don't kowtow to the extremists the same way we did over the Satanic Versus furore as it set a very dangerous precedent .


what I tried to mention is same with you. I did not watch the film as well but if it is pure anti-Islam, its not freedom of speech IMO. just a cheap provoke.

[Niels]

Those poor schmucks with their liberal immigration policy may be facing riots that make Paris's look like picnics.
I doubt it. This is not the first anti-Islam film that's being made here. People go more ballistic over football matches.


I did not watch the film as well but if it is pure anti-Islam, its not freedom of speech IMO. just a cheap provoke.
It is meant to provoke, that's the whole point. Mr. Wilders thinks Islam is a backwards religion, he has every right to express his opinion. Just as much as someone has the right to think and say Islam is the best thing in the world.

[sp2c]

I think your aluminum hat is too tight. What I was saying that the Dutch does not have the power to limit or stop this. Just like the US government does not have the power to limit M. Moores movies, Irani Government does have the power. Just because they can do it, they may not realize the Dutch can not do it. Just as the West is accused of not understanding other countries, this may also be with case with Iran.

afaik Michael Moore does not have a seat in parliament or the US equivalent of it ... mr. Wilders does and he needs to start acting accordingly and yes we do have the power to stop this, we just don't use it.
If some Iranian MP starts crying about us bullying half the world 400 years ago I would expect an angry letter to their embassy as well.

so oddly enough I agree somewhat with the Iranians here, imo this film shoot be banned or mr. Wilders should be kicked out of parliament (if the movie is as bad as advertised), other then that ... I don't care about Dutch/Iranian relations and they don't get a say in our internal matters

[sp2c]

I find it a quite sad testament to the state of the world, that it is a common, everyday expectation for Muslims to be violent. Nobody expects Christian riots, or Buddhist riots, but Muslims. Oh of course.
Also, that if you say anything that could be remotely portrayed as negative about Islam, then there will be riots, death threats, casualties, and then YOU will be branded the extremist for provoking it, and not the bloodthirsty, rampaging mobs.
Its very Orwellian.

we tend to go rampaging when the local football (soccer) team wins ... or loses

[DaGreatRV]

For those who are not familiar with mr. Wilders I would like to say that he's somewhat of a reallife troll. Every two months 'when his name stops appearing in the media' he has to fly some silly idea wich in reality is totall bull.
He is just hoping to provoke some kind of islamic outrage to make the dutch vote for his party.

I'm just glad no-one takes him serious anymore.

But ofcourse he has a right to say what he wants, for him it's a new oppertunity to be in the picture and for me to switch the channel.


Just ignore mister muchroom head and he'll be gone in no-time.

[Freedom-Fries]

Any other source that this israeli website that demonises anything iranian/mulsim?


from the horses mouth

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=39616&sectionid=351020101

widespread cartoon riots on the way

[Niels]

so oddly enough I agree somewhat with the Iranians here, imo this film shoot be banned or mr. Wilders should be kicked out of parliament (if the movie is as bad as advertised), other then that ... I don't care about Dutch/Iranian relations and they don't get a say in our internal matters
That's so ridiculously political correct. The man has some strong views and evidently a good portion of the population agrees with him or he wouldn't be in parliament. That's how a democracy works. He can make a movie if he wants, why shouldn't he be allowed to? Because some people might think it's not nice? If that's how it works; I have a few things I don't like and would like to see banned.

Nothing personal, but the constant demonizing (because it's so trendy to hate Wilders) by people like you is going to get someone assassinated or turn the country into some communistic teletubby state.

[Freedom-Fries]

What Iran fails to see or understand is the Dutch government is not a dictatoral government as the Iran is. The Dutch can not violate basic freedoms like the Iranis can.


we were all deeply traumatized by those cartoons

[sp2c]

That's so ridiculously political correct.

well, it was bound to happen some day wasn't it?



The man has some strong views and evidently a good portion of the population agrees with him or he wouldn't be in parliament. That's how a democracy works. He can make a movie if he wants, why shouldn't he be allowed to? Because some people might think it's not nice? If that's how it works; I have a few things I don't like and would like to see banned.

because as a member of parliament people see him as representative for the Netherlands and then stuff like this topic happens



Nothing personal, but the constant demonizing (because it's so trendy to hate Wilders) by people like you is going to get someone assassinated or turn the country into some communistic teletubby state.

how?

[Love Cyprus]

we were all deeply traumatized by those cartoons



this cartoon is one of the most pointless thing on earth. drawing a cartoon of a Prophet that billions of people believe in like this is totally unnecessary.

[Ulytau]

we were all deeply traumatized by those cartoons
Who drawed this cartoon said;I did it for beein famous he was workin at a local newspaper..Also same time Violence rise in Afghanistan and Taliban start to have power used it for PROPAGANDA if i read rules true you cannot insult a religion at forums..

[Dispatcher]

Those poor schmucks with their liberal immigration policy may be facing riots that make Paris's look like picnics.


No, we won't. Everything will be as peacefull as always.

And that liberal immigration policy is pretty much the same all over Europe. Schengen, you know.

[Quack of Doom]

No, we won't. Everything will be as peacefull as always.

I guess there will be some little riots by bored kids who find the movie a great excuse to riot, but indeed, it won't be big.

All the commotion about that movie is just plain silly. It will probably be a very badly directed movie that will only contain a ****load of oneliners without any argumentation.

I think it is something that's best to be ignored. Not to be blown out of proportions like it is now.

[RSone]

Look as long as wilders stays within the law he can do what he wants(art.1 of the constitution: Everyone present in The Netherlands will be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination because of religion,way of life, political adherance,race, gender, whatever ground there may be, is NOT allowed
Art.7 of the constitution:
-1 Noone will need permission to spread his thoughts by press, except as dictated by the responsabilities given to them by the law.
-2 The law will provide rules about radio and television, there will be no audit on radio or televionbroadcasting prior to the broadcast.
-3Noone will need permission to spread their thoughts or feelings by said means, based on their contents, save their responsabilities given to them by the law. The law can regulate showings accessable to persons younger than the age of 16, to preserve public decency.
-4 The previous points are not applicable to trade commercials.)

These and more articles in various laws are applicable to this situation, but there are too many too list. Mr. Wilders is free to do this(but should indeed be aware that he is a representative of the people, and should act accordingly) and anyone that feels harmed by his actions, has the right to report him to the authorities, whom will prosecute him if there are sufficient grounds to do so.

People(especially those from other countries) need to understand that we have a tradition of civilisation and law in this country and need to act accordingly. If you want to live here, fine, if you compliment to our society and feel you are a valuable member of it, feel free to come over, but you WILL follow the rules, whatever religion you are.

Again, if anyone finds Wilder's actions insulting, they can take legal action.Iran is making a big deal out of nothing, and i'm pretty sure our government doesn't really care that much about it's relations with Iran, especially if they threaten friends and allies.

[Mr.Flint]

this cartoon is one of the most pointless thing on earth. drawing a cartoon of a Prophet that billions of people believe in like this is totally unnecessary.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l235/mr_flint/1b016872.gif.....

[Love Cyprus]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l235/mr_flint/1b016872.gif.....

its funny how you quote my reply with another cartoon. I am againist any offensive cartoon.
edit: the Muhammed drawings are not that pure like you posted.

[TheBelgian]

This film is a 15 minute thing made by Geert Wilders, leader of the VVD, an extreme right wing party in Holland. The articel makes it sound like this something sanctioned by the Dutch government. Most people hate this guy, and many government officials and people on the street condemn this film, even before its release.

That having been said, Iran can do whatever they want, it wont matter. Freedom of speech is a sacred inalienable right, Wilders has a right to make this movie.

[sp2c]

wtf???

Wilders is not the leader of the VVD nor is the VVD in any way shape or form extreme

[Lusitania]

"Let them eat cake," I say...

[Fenix]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3496710,00.html

So basically they are threatening with terrorism if we expose their terrorist ways.. Hmm..

[Snoshi]

So basically they are threatening with terrorism if we expose their terrorist ways.. Hmm..

I dont think they made that..

[Fenix]

I dont think they made that..

"In Iran, insulting Islam is a very sensitive matter and if the movie is broadcasted it will arouse a wave of popular hate that will be directed towards any government that insults Islam," Boroujerdi said according to the IRNA news agency. (Dudi Cohen)"

A wave of popular hate will be directed towards any goverment that insults Islam..

I read that as a threat of terrorism.

[NavyTimes]

So basically they are threatening with terrorism if we expose their terrorist ways.. Hmm..


Lol, you took the words out of my mouth. A friend of mine who is a foreign exchange student lives in Rotterdam, Holland, she is not very impressed by the muslim community there, to say the least.

Funny that, seeing as she was a flaming hot 'antiracist' (sic!) before she left.

[Mr.Flint]

Lol, you took the words out of my mouth. A friend of mine who is a foreign exchange student lives in Rotterdam, Holland, she is not very impressed by the muslim community there, to say the least.

Funny that, seeing as she was a flaming hot 'antiracist' (sic!) before she left.
rofl i have a buddy, who went through the same thing...
Left to Rotterdam as a flaming antiracist/ noone illegal etc. activist, a year later returned as a hardened racist and anti immigrant...rofl

[California Joe]

I am againist any offensive cartoon.

Maybe you should harden up then Sally. Or get a few real life problems to concentrate on.

[Love Cyprus]

Maybe you should harden up then Sally. Or get a few real life problems to concentrate on.

thanks for your advices. i will consider them.

[California Joe]

Thank you for your consideration.

[Winger]

I think we can all agree that the Iranian people as a whole are done a great diservice by their leadership and their Revolutionary Guard.

[Calanen]

Its interesting to me at least that Christians deal with Jesus parodies with good grace, wheras certain members of the Islamic faith deal with Mohammed parody as meaning that somebody (or many people) have to die, that embassies must be attacked, cars burnt etc. Tolerance works in all directions, not just one way.

A recent play opening in Australia shows Jesus as being in a gay relationship with Judas. Is the play offensive? Sure. Should it be shown? Why not. Certainly though, no mad Catholics will be out issuing fatwas as a result, or Papal Bulls as they were once issued (which is perhaps the closest equivalent). Respect for one's religion, is not more important, than respect for freedom of speech.

[Hollis]

I think we can all agree that the Iranian people as a whole are done a great diservice by their leadership and their Revolutionary Guard.


Its interesting to me at least that Christians deal with Jesus parodies with good grace, wheras certain members of the Islamic faith deal with Mohammed parody as meaning that somebody (or many people) have to die, that embassies must be attacked, cars burnt etc. Tolerance works in all directions, not just one way.

A recent play opening in Australia shows Jesus as being in a gay relationship with Judas. Is the play offensive? Sure. Should it be shown? Why not. Certainly though, no mad Catholics will be out issuing fatwas as a result, or Papal Bulls as they were once issued (which is perhaps the closest equivalent). Respect for one's religion, is not more important, than respect for freedom of speech.


Two best quotes so far.

[SonKev]

Those Islamofacist bastards fail to understand that here in the west, we have evolved from the primitivity of living a life centered around religious extremism.



Truth be said, we had our share of bloodsheds with the crusades and the inquisition, but that was back in the 11th century to the 18th century. We have evolved, we're more civilized.

Sad that those moderate muslims do not have the balls to stand up against those enraged madmen, who twist the meaning of their religion for their nefarious agendas.

First of all the crusades were lead by the POPE, catholicism is NOT christianity.

-Christianity will never be Catholicism.
-(lower case "c") catholic Christian, means universal Christian.
-Catholics are different than Christians, extremely different beliefs

LOL, We evolved....LOL, You mean the major power of the world isnt controlled by the pope anymore and catholism isnt extreme anymore with purifying toture, more like de-evolved... there are still extreme religion/ and or cults out there.

[RSone]

rofl i have a buddy, who went through the same thing...
Left to Rotterdam as a flaming antiracist/ noone illegal etc. activist, a year later returned as a hardened racist and anti immigrant...rofl

Rotterdam isn't exactly a showpiece of succesfull immigration policies. The current one, while being much harsher, is much more effective.
And BTW, i wouldn't want to be some E-jihadi who thinks it would be fun to pull crap in our country. We tend to take that kind of stuff rather serious these days.

[Billy No Mates]

First of all the crusades were lead by the POPE, catholicism is NOT christianity.

-Christianity will never be Catholicism.
-(lower case "c") catholic Christian, means universal Christian.
-Catholics are different than Christians, extremely different beliefs

LOL, We evolved....LOL, You mean the major power of the world isnt controlled by the pope anymore and catholism isnt extreme anymore with purifying toture, more like de-evolved... there are still extreme religion/ and or cults out there.

At the time of the crusades western christians were all 'catholic' in as much as they were lead by the pope in Rome their was no difference as no schism had yet occured,and by the time it did crusading had fallen out of favour anyway .

[Kilgor]

These guys nailed it perfectly...

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.01.31.ImageProblem-X.gif

[TheBelgian]

wtf???

Wilders is not the leader of the VVD nor is the VVD in any way shape or form extreme

**** sorry, you're right i got my parties mixed up, I meant PVV. My bad. He USED to be in the VVD though hehe

[Love Cyprus]

Its interesting to me at least that Christians deal with Jesus parodies with good grace, wheras certain members of the Islamic faith deal with Mohammed parody as meaning that somebody (or many people) have to die, that embassies must be attacked, cars burnt etc. Tolerance works in all directions, not just one way.

A recent play opening in Australia shows Jesus as being in a gay relationship with Judas. Is the play offensive? Sure. Should it be shown? Why not. Certainly though, no mad Catholics will be out issuing fatwas as a result, or Papal Bulls as they were once issued (which is perhaps the closest equivalent). Respect for one's religion, is not more important, than respect for freedom of speech.


Good generalizing but all generalizing are wrong mate. Cars burnt, embassies got attacked but you can not hold responsible whole Islam world because of that. Burning cars, attacking embassies is just because of uneducated people. But this does not mean whole Muslims on earth joined these aimless actions.

I do not call them Muslim. You can show your religion like whatever you want, but if you go offensive to other's religion, you are doing nothing different from those who burn cars. Like broadcasting such cartoons.

[Love Cyprus]

unecessary post; sorry

[TheBelgian]

Good generalizing but all generalizing are wrong mate. Cars burnt, embassies got attacked but you can not hold responsible whole Islam world because of that. Burning cars, attacking embassies is just because of uneducated people. But educated Muslims does not want their belief to be shown as "gay" as well. No need to burn cars.

Yeah but then these "educated Muslims" will restrain their reactions to publishing angry articles, opening a social debate, or writing pissed off letters-to-the-editor. And all that is fine, they have total freedom to express their viewpoint peacefully, as everyone does. But its the "uneducated people" that are the problem, the ones that feel buring embassies and cars and beating up foreigners over a newspaper article or a video is justified, they are the problem.

You pointed to it yourself, the problem is not that these cartoons were published or this movie produced, but that so many people in the muslim world aren't educated enough to respond to "an insult to Islam" with words and reason, rather than threats and violence. Lack of education and religious enlightenment is the root of the problem here, not the right to freedom of speech and expression.

[Calanen]

Good generalizing but all generalizing are wrong mate. Cars burnt, embassies got attacked but you can not hold responsible whole Islam world because of that. Burning cars, attacking embassies is just because of uneducated people. But educated Muslims does not want their belief to be shown as "gay" as well. No need to burn cars.

I think this is a mistake that is often made for the Islamic faith. If you look at my quote, I did say 'certain members' not all members of. There was no generialising at all done, or holding of anyone responsible. Is anyone responsible? Who should fix this problem?

I do not think it is good enough to ignore the repeated bad behaviour or expected response of certain members of a community, just because they do not represent the majority or even a significant minority of the total population.

The problem is there, and it has to be faced squarely. The argument that 'not everyone in Islam does it so therefore we can never talk about the fact that anyone in the Islamic world does this' takes us nowhere and just ignores the problem.

What can be said is that if you compare the Catholic faith and the Islamic faith, adherents to the first never go berserk (in modern times), whereas, in the second, it often happens whenever a certain segment of people in the Islamic world feel that their faith has been insulted. I think I can generialise to this extent.

Why is this? And should it continue? Such behaviour needs to be addressed and squarely denounced.

[Love Cyprus]

I think this is a mistake that is often made for the Islamic faith. If you look at my quote, I did say 'certain members' not all members of. There was no generialising at all done, or holding of anyone responsible. Is anyone responsible? Who should fix this problem?

I do not think it is good enough to ignore the repeated bad behaviour or expected response of certain members of a community, just because they do not represent the majority or even a significant minority of the total population.

The problem is there, and it has to be faced squarely. The argument that 'not everyone in Islam does it so therefore we can never talk about the fact that anyone in the Islamic world does this' takes us nowhere and just ignores the problem.

What can be said is that if you compare the Catholic faith and the Islamic faith, adherents to the first never go berserk (in modern times), whereas, in the second, it often happens whenever a certain segment of people in the Islamic world feel that their faith has been insulted. I think I can generialise to this extent.

Why is this? And should it continue? Such behaviour needs to be addressed and squarely denounced.


If we want to find someone with responsibility, it will be no other than their goverments and it's their govt. who gonna solve it.

I dont say they should be ignored, but those cartoons blow with bellows into fire which makes cliff with eastern and western civilizations deeper.

Yes, such behaviour needs to be denounced but the way is not publishing offensive cartoons about a whole religion's prophet, this is generalising.

[Itamajus]

Catholic was just as fanatic religion as islam now. But after its "golden"(dark) age, its dieing, the same awaits almost every other religion IMO and its good that way.

[WKD]

what I tried to mention is same with you. I did not watch the film as well but if it is pure anti-Islam, its not freedom of speech IMO. just a cheap provoke.

See now, this point of view pisses me off, and I realise I may well be in the minority here. Freedom of speech is precisely about views that you don't like, and I pulled that quote from Chomsky, who I don't like in the slightest. I would be angry if a blatantly, patently anti-christian movie was banned; why the hell should Islam be tip-toed around? What makes someone elses religion immune from criticism or denegration? I wouldn't want to admit to myself by I get the horrible impression that it's because it's not european/western. That kind of cowardice makes me angry. It reeks to me of regression.

I don't believe that the west was won by respecting everyone's opinions; quite the opposite. We would not have the freedoms we enjoy today if our illustrious predecessors didn't get out and offend/disagree with/make blatant war upon Mother Church. Soveriegn european governments would still be subject to the pope (and yes, I am aware that this was always in degrees and that politics is a tricky business) and the moral strictures of the medieval catholic church. The freedom in the 'west' was won over time and with large violence. I'm allowed to criticise and and piss upon other people's religions in the same way they are allowed to do the same to my civil-secular beliefs.

I understand that this is a privately own board and different rules apply. That's not what I'm talking about though. Rant over, see you again in a few months.

[ed316]

Originally Posted by Love Cyprus http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2997800#post2997800)
what I tried to mention is same with you. I did not watch the film as well but if it is pure anti-Islam, its not freedom of speech IMO. just a cheap provoke.


Then you are going down a very slippery slope. When will it end? I don't agree with some people's view but I'll be damn if they are censored and not have the right to express it.

[Love Cyprus]

See now, this point of view pisses me off, and I realise I may well be in the minority here. Freedom of speech is precisely about views that you don't like, and I pulled that quote from Chomsky, who I don't like in the slightest. I would be angry if a blatantly, patently anti-christian movie was banned; why the hell should Islam be tip-toed around? What makes someone elses religion immune from criticism or denegration? I wouldn't want to admit to myself by I get the horrible impression that it's because it's not european/western. That kind of cowardice makes me angry. It reeks to me of regression.

I don't believe that the west was won by respecting everyone's opinions; quite the opposite. We would not have the freedoms we enjoy today if our illustrious predecessors didn't get out and offend/disagree with/make blatant war upon Mother Church. Soveriegn european governments would still be subject to the pope (and yes, I am aware that this was always in degrees and that politics is a tricky business) and the moral strictures of the medieval catholic church. The freedom in the 'west' was won over time and with large violence. I'm allowed to criticise and and piss upon other people's religions in the same way they are allowed to do the same to my civil-secular beliefs.

I understand that this is a privately own board and different rules apply. That's not what I'm talking about though. Rant over, see you again in a few months.

I understand what you mean but you did not understand me. You can critise anything as long as you don't harm it. "Anti-Islam" means something shows Islam as bad religion, unnecessarry, no rights for women and etc... After people watch this movie, they will have very bad thoughts about Islam, which can cause a hate againist Islam.

Critism and provoking is different things.


Then you are going down a very slippery slope. When will it end? I don't agree with some people's view but I'll be damn if they are censored and not have the right to express it.


Provoking is not a right. Critize but dont provoke.



You guys what you don't get is meaning of "religion." It's something between human and his own beliefs. You can critize(will have no affect on believer i think but anyway) but if you start provoking, then you are about to be offensive.



All I write here is depends on if the film is about to harm Islam.

[Billy No Mates]

Critism and provoking is different things.




Provoking is not a right. Critize but dont provoke.



All I write here is depends on if the film is about to harm Islam.

Unfortunately when people see any form of criticism as provocation then to all intents and purposes they are the same thing .

The film can't harm Islam unless its adherents faith is already shakey,how ever over reaction to every slight real or imagined could .

[Snoshi]

A Dutch politician cautioned that the government of the Netherlands was dominated by a "fear of Islam," after it delayed the release of a short film he had made attacking the Koran. In the film, Geert Wilders, the leader of the conservative Dutch Freedom Party (PVV) compares the sacred Muslim text to Hitler's Mein Kampf.

In an open letter to the Dutch De Volkskrant newspaper Wednesday, Wilders claims that the panic shown by politicians and by police served only to prove his point.

Police and politicians were afraid that the film would spark riots and even went so far as to tell Wilders that he would have to leave the country,

"If I had announced that I was going to make a film about the fascist character of the Bible would there have been a crisis meeting of Holland's security forces?" he asked. "Would I have received as many death threats as I have done since announcing I was making a film about the Koran? Of course not."

"The fact that a 10-minute film not yet shown could, according to some, lead to economic boycotts, riots and other horrible things says everything about the nature of Islam. Nothing about me. The cabinet acknowledges with its panicky reaction that Islam is not comparable to Christianity, but is a unique ideology. And this ideology thus demands a separate, unique approach. The Koran film has thus already demonstrated its usefulness."

The Iranian parliament has warned of "extensive repercussions from Muslims throughout the globe" if the film is released.

The film will be broadcast in a number of weeks, the PVV leader said.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1201070782163&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Niels]

The Iranian parliament has warned of "extensive repercussions from Muslims throughout the globe" if the film is released.To prove Mr. Wilders and his film wrong, of course.

[Lokos]

And, lo!, the Dutch government did turn to the Iranian representative, and it did bestow a message upon him, so that the King of the Sassanids would know the will of the irreverent Dutchmen. The terrible message the hoarse Dutch endowed the Parthian spokesman with can be surmised thusly:

'So?'

Lokos

[Ironsight06]

The Iranian parliament has warned of "extensive repercussions from Muslims throughout the globe" if the film is released.
I am ****ting my pants already.

I am not a big fan of this movie, but if it pisses off Iran, please go ahead and give it some extra promotion.


This film is a 15 minute thing made by Geert Wilders, leader of the VVD, an extreme right wing party in Holland. The articel makes it sound like this something sanctioned by the Dutch government. Most people hate this guy, and many government officials and people on the street condemn this film, even before its release.
^ I laughed hard, very, very hard. How do you come up with this crap? rofl

[Eggy]

Looking forward to the movie, this is bound to open alot of people's eyes. Hate speech is preached in mosques daily, also in the Netherlands. Wilders might be going to far with some of his stuff, like banning religious books but it's the only way to be heard.

And we don't have any extreme right wing parties in parliament.

[RSone]

"Extreme reprecussions" would hardly be a sane course of action. Such things WILL, unlike Wilders' film, provoke hatred in our country. It would be a contra-productive thing to do if you are muslim,as it would not help your faith, or your people, at all.

BTW: Wilders is not a member of the VVD, nor is the VVD a extreme right wing party. And yes, most people condemn Wilders, his party(the PVV) and the film, but we don't Hate him. This doesn't take away that things haven't been going smoothly between the native population and the foreign population.

[Ulytau]

it reminds me a article..It was saying if all politicians never speak especially after some serious actions..I wanted to change this if all populist politicians never speak when wise people are speaking for solving problems..Especially about Geert Wilders still sayin same thing if i know true people do not care him in Holland just another populist politician dunno he tried to did anything about economy,social rights etc etc..If we speakin about Freedom of Speech he cares Freedom of Speech himself?

But sad thing some groups gonna try to use it for Propaganda we seen before one of my friend was servin in Afghanistan too he turnt back..

A little info about Geert Wilders..

When a group of Dutch Deputy interest to visit Palestine he wanted to go..Other deputies said to him;

If you dont gonna say Islam is like that etc you can come if you say it will be danger for us..

But lets check what Wilders said to media;

They didnt let to go Palestine to me cause i dont like Islam..

PS : ''Just learn from one of friend''

He never said anythin about politics except racism and anti-islam comments..

[RSone]

it reminds me a article..It was saying if all politicians never speak especially after some serious actions..I wanted to change this if all populist politicians never speak when wise people are speaking for solving problems..Especially about Geert Wilders still sayin same thing if i know true people do not care him in Holland just another populist politician dunno he tried to did anything about economy,social rights etc etc..If we speakin about Freedom of Speech he cares Freedom of Speech himself?

But sad thing some groups gonna try to use it for Propaganda we seen before one of my friend was servin in Afghanistan too he turnt back..

A little info about Geert Wilders..

When a group of Dutch Deputy interest to visit Palestine he wanted to go..Other deputies said to him;

If you dont gonna say Islam is like that etc you can come if you say it will be danger for us..

But lets check what Wilders said to media;

They didnt let to go Palestine to me cause i dont like Islam..

PS : ''Just learn from one of friend''

He never said anythin about politics except racism and anti-islam comments..

What the hell? Sorry mate, can't make sense of what you just posted.

[Ulytau]

What the hell? Sorry mate, can't make sense of what you just posted.

Only tryin to say only imagine if populist politicians like Geert Wilders never speak how our world can be..

Also tryin to say Extremist groups ''Like Al Qaida,Extremists'' using them for Propaganda i know about this cause one of my friend was serving in Afghanistan too and turn back to home :)

PS : Sorry i have a little headache :fork:

[3rdMillhouse]

Catholic was just as fanatic religion as islam now. But after its "golden"(dark) age, its dieing, the same awaits almost every other religion IMO and its good that way.

Yes, I agree. The world will be a much more peacefull place when the time comes where religion won't interfere with politics anymore. If such time ever comes.

And, lo!, the Dutch government did turn to the Iranian representative, and it did bestow a message upon him, so that the King of the Sassanids would know the will of the irreverent Dutchmen. The terrible message the hoarse Dutch endowed the Parthian spokesman with can be surmised thusly:

'So?'

Lokos

AhaHaHaHhahahaha you're a funny man lol


I am ****ting my pants already.


Ha, last time I recall, an Ayatolah passed on fatwa sanctioning the execution of the moviemaker who pissed of Islamofacist freaks. Guess what? He's dead.

[RSone]

Yes, I agree. The world will be a much more peacefull place when the time comes where religion won't interfere with politics anymore. If such time ever comes.


AhaHaHaHhahahaha you're a funny man lol



Ha, last time I recall, an Ayatolah passed on fatwa sanctioning the execution of the moviemaker who pissed of Islamofacist freaks. Guess what? He's dead.

Van Gogh didn't want protection, Wilders has lots of protection and he's so paranoid he doesn't even trust his own butt.p-) And the guy that killed Van Gogh is locked away for life in the EBI(Maximum security state prison, and MAXSEC is really MAXSEC over there, not a nice place to be) If you killed a member of parliament, I bet security forces would act with extreme prejudice(shoot to kill) as you would be a immediate threat to the government and stability of the country.

[ed316]

Critism and provoking is different things.




Provoking is not a right. Critize but dont provoke.



You guys what you don't get is meaning of "religion." It's something between human and his own beliefs. You can critize(will have no affect on believer i think but anyway) but if you start provoking, then you are about to be offensive.



All I write here is depends on if the film is about to harm Islam.


Where's the line between criticism and provocation? Different for everyone. Just because you are offended doen't mean others share your view.

[Shadowstorm]

Man, I heard some of his interviews when I was watching the news and man he was downgrading the Muslim religion bigtime.

[deagle]

i say to heck with the ties. holland doesn't need them, and can make do just fine. iran wants to reconsider ties ? well, tough luck for them i guess.

[little icebear]

Critize but dont provoke.


I feel provoked by sharia law and "honor killings". And I feel insulted when I´m refered to as "dhimmi".

[Love Cyprus]

I feel provoked by sharia law and "honor killings". And I feel insulted when I´m refered to as "dhimmi".


I'm not the one to complain.

[Love Cyprus]

Where's the line between criticism and provocation? Different for everyone. Just because you are offended doen't mean others share your view.

It comes with empathy.

[ed316]

It comes with empathy.


Like I said we share differing views. You see provocation other see criticism. When I see the American flag get burn in another country am I suppose to be empathetic?

[Love Cyprus]

Like I said we share differing views. You see provocation other see criticism. When I see the American flag get burn in another country am I suppose to be empathetic?

No, it's their fault to burn a nation's flag like insulting Islam.

[ed316]

No, it's their fault to burn a nation's flag like insulting Islam.


Why should Islam be beyond insult /criticism?

[Love Cyprus]

Should it be illegal then?

Of course. Now you are going to point me a few enemy of USA and you will say it's not illegal in those countries.

This is like, if he's doing, I can do as well.

Education.... Base of everything...

[Love Cyprus]

Why should Islam be beyond insult /criticism?


Like I said before, I did not watch the film.

I make comments if the film is about insulting Islam.

Sorry for bad use of language, I'm trying to improve myself.

off to bed now...

[-HUNTER-]

First off it isnt insulting to islam from our point of view, its just ****ing reality.

Second, who cares if that ****ing country wants to isolate itself.

Third, this so makes me want to draw cartoons on the pallets of medical equipment I ship to those mother****ers every month!

:roll:

edit

Because of a very healthy tax system in the netherlands allot of big companies have warehouses here, so that means iran wont get
all the stuff they produce and store in those warehouses, like the MEDICAL equipment weve got. If I were them I would stock up
on that sort of ****.

[ed316]

Of course. Now you are going to point me a few enemy of USA and you will say it's not illegal in those countries.

This is like, if he's doing, I can do as well.

Education.... Base of everything...

Then education should make people TOLERANT than instead of wanting to ban or make what they percieve as an insult ILLEGAL. Education is suppose to open up your mind not close them.

[Heinemann]

The movie should be shown, the Muslims who are crying over this need to HTFU.

[Love Cyprus]

Then education should make people TOLERANT than instead of wanting to ban or make what they percieve as an insult ILLEGAL. Education is suppose to open up your mind not close them.


What you don't get is or trying not to get is that I am trying to say if this film gonna harm Islam, it's just cheap provoke but if only critizes with a good language and respects billion's of people's belief in the world you know, like a documentary.

Education makes people TOLERANT in addition to RESPECTFUL to other's belief and LEVEL.

[TheBelgian]

I am ****ting my pants already.

I am not a big fan of this movie, but if it pisses off Iran, please go ahead and give it some extra promotion.


^ I laughed hard, very, very hard. How do you come up with this crap? rofl

What crap is that exactly? I already apologised for writing the VVD instead of the PVV. As for the rest, its how I perceive the situation, living in Holland.

[RSone]

Read this in Metro this morning: Apparently, several Muslim community organisations want the Ministry of Justice to prosecute wilders, and state that it has,for some reason been hesitant in this(maybe because he's an MP?). If the MINJUS doesn't go through with the prosecution, or is to slow in doing so, the muslim orgs might take it to court to force it to prosecute Wilders.(on account of discrimination/racism)

[ed316]

What you don't get is or trying not to get is that I am trying to say if this film gonna harm Islam, it's just cheap provoke but if only critizes with a good language and respects billion's of people's belief in the world you know, like a documentary.

Education makes people TOLERANT in addition to RESPECTFUL to other's belief and LEVEL.


What you don't get is that what you mind see as slander and provocation might be criticism.

Education doesn't mean squat. It's how you are raised. Either you are given a good upbringing and taught tolerance, repsect, and love.

[sp2c]

Read this in Metro this morning: Apparently, several Muslim community organisations want the Ministry of Justice to prosecute wilders, and state that it has,for some reason been hesitant in this(maybe because he's an MP?). If the MINJUS doesn't go through with the prosecution, or is to slow in doing so, the muslim orgs might take it to court to force it to prosecute Wilders.(on account of discrimination/racism)

seems a little bit premature since nobody's seen it yet

[RSone]

I was posting it out of memory, i don't know if they meant NOW, or if they meant wen the movie is released. But they do have grounds to do it now, considering Wilders' statements about islam and muslims. Prosecuting him after the movie is released is probably smarter, as it makes their case that much stronger, unless the movie is a whole lot more subdued than everybody expects it will be.

[DaGreatRV]

Why doesnt anyone make a movie wich criticizes Wilders? That'll be a whole lot more fun than burning embassies. :)

[Snoshi]

Why doesnt anyone make a movie wich criticizes Wilders? That'll be a whole lot more fun than burning embassies. :)

What did you say? p-)
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/9d/BritishMuslims-ps.jpg

[DaGreatRV]

What did you say? p-)
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/9d/BritishMuslims-ps.jpg

That'll be the tagline! p-)
BTW, that 'S' looks like a '5' :|


And yes, movies are also more fun than threatening to behead people who say what you don't like. :oops:

[Snoshi]

That'll be the tagline! p-)
BTW, that 'S' looks like a '5' :|


And yes, movies are also more fun than threatening to behead people who say what you don't like. :oops:

I agree with you.. Why not make a movie that will counter all the allegations that will be presented about Islam.. I am sure that Holland will show it too..

[DaGreatRV]

I agree with you.. Why not make a movie that will counter all the allegations that will be presented about Islam.. I am sure that Holland will show it too..


Yeah, I was thinking about this whole movie thing and thought, what better way to react/counter Wilders than doing it on his own turf. (in this case movies) Because reacting with violence is just what Wilders wants. :)

[sp2c]

actually I think he wants it to be banned so he can cry over it untill the next elections

[Ironsight06]

Ha, last time I recall, an Ayatolah passed on fatwa sanctioning the execution of the moviemaker who pissed of Islamofacist freaks. Guess what? He's dead.
So? I am not making the movie.

I am getting so sick of all the attention this has been given. All this crap is going to cost the Dutch taxpayer so much money...