2008 Post Presidential Election Thread

[Lambert58]

dan qualye-isms are classic !! the potato gaffe one but of many more (many more times that of obama). and he still looks like the best candidate for president imho.

so you're a socialist/marxist?

wrong country.

[CMNot]

Er...look at your current President. Stupidity is no bar to the White House entrance gents.

[BloodDiamondPants]

If this guy gets in, we'll start having more in common with South Africa than we care to. For President, we now have 3 media sponsored candidates: The ANC Favorite; The social-climber Trophy Wife (uhg, yeah, I know; not much of trophy, but you get the picture), and The guy who sleeps in the bamboo cage next to his California King-size bed every night. Given the option, I'll go with bamboo, but I'm not happy about any of them personally. "Angles, and Ministers of Grace, defend us..."

P.S. I wanted Grandpa Fred, but we all know where that went.

[Dasein]

Most of these gaffes are either taken out of context or are so trivial as to not matter. Some look much worse in print than they do spoken, because print doesn't capture body language or tempo or anything else that would contribute to the context. The Memorial Day 'fallen heroes' is an example of this - the intent is clear from the quote, and I doubt it would have come across as a gaffe in person, but in print it looks worse.

Really, though, this whole rush to harp on gaffes and mis-speaks and other minor verbal slip-ups is like the message board posters who go after people for minor grammatical or spelling errors and don't let up for pages and pages of posts.

[Maktab]

I'm sympathetic to this opinion:
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll295/Maktab_2008/fk-it-mccain-08.jpg

Fact is, Obama's the ultimate image candidate. All flash and no substance. I think it's awesome that a black guy's in a position to become president (it really shows how far the US has come since the 1960s, and that's not acknowledged enough) but I'm opposed to his stance on the few issues he has committed to. Sure, 'change' and 'hope' are fantastic buzzwords, but I have serious misgivings about a guy whose solutions for the Middle East look to be two years out of date, with domestic promises are frankly unrealistic and a taste for spiritual advisors that makes me seriously doubt his judgement.

I'd much rather have McCain. Sure he's a bit of a RINO, but then I've never much cared for the religious-right nonsense that seems to be a pre-requisite for being a true GOPper these days. He grasps the essential severity of the US's foreign policy challenges and his domestic agenda is mostly inoffensive to me. On the big questions he's not perfect, but he's better than both Obama and Hillary, so he'd have my vote if I were an American.

[Maktab]

Most of these gaffes are either taken out of context or are so trivial as to not matter. Some look much worse in print than they do spoken, because print doesn't capture body language or tempo or anything else that would contribute to the context. The Memorial Day 'fallen heroes' is an example of this - the intent is clear from the quote, and I doubt it would have come across as a gaffe in person, but in print it looks worse.

Really, though, this whole rush to harp on gaffes and mis-speaks and other minor verbal slip-ups is like the message board posters who go after people for minor grammatical or spelling errors and don't let up for pages and pages of posts.

I actually agree to some extent. The same was true with the overwhelming majority of 'Bushisms', which were usually chopped up and distorted until they resembled only shadows of what was actually said. In general, I think this focus on gaffes is petty and demonstrates the vapidity of so much of the political debate these days.

But this does serve as an indication of just how much of a free ride the US media is giving Obama. When Bush, Quayle and other Republicans have misspoken or had similar gaffes, they've been mercilessly mocked for them. But Obama's gaffes get brushed off, explained away as the mistakes of a tired man (so understandable of course). There's a serious flaw in an industry that could treat men from different political parties in such contradictory ways.

[Alpheus]

Er...look at your current President. Stupidity is no bar to the White House entrance gents.

Do you have two degrees from Harvard and Yale? And last time I checked, the Air Force doesn't allow idiots to fly their fighters. Bush isn't stupid, he's inarticulate. And what does the "Bush is a idiot" meme have to do with the way the Obamessiah is portrayed in the media?

Dasein, as for "out of context", can you explain the gaffes with the "proper" context? Specifically the examples in the OP?



The Selma March in 1965 did not contribute to his birth (http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/04/selma_voting_rights_march_comm.php) in 1961.

When he said this, he was at a speech specifically about the march. Getting the date wrong by four years and using it to pander to the audience is hardly trivial.


Kansas tornadoes in May 2007 killed 12 people, not “ten thousand”.

This is so ridiculous, I am tempted to write this one off as a total brain-cramp.


Afghans do not speak Arabic (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/obama-gaffes-on.html).

This gaffe is more serious. This guy wants to be C-in-C, and yet he doesn't know that Iraq and Afghanistan speak different languages? Hell, even I know that.


Misunderstanding Memorial Day (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/265103.php), and then claiming to see “fallen heroes” in the Memorial Day audience.

Another brain-cramp I think, probably a case of his mouth getting ahead of his brain.


Same day (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/27/obama-my-grandfather-liberated-auschwitz/): putting Auschwitz in western Germany, not Poland.

A lack of simple geography skills is disturbing.


“57 states” (http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MWZjY2YzZWVkMjdkMDEzMGQ0MjJkNTUyN2FkNmMzYTc).

This is scary.

Combine these gaffes with the people he associates with like Frank Davis, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and others, along with other serious problems like talking to Iran without preconditions, invading Pakistan, taking every question about him as an insult, trying (and succeeding) in re-writing history, and a highly complicit MSM, means that I am really concerned about his character, goals and suitability.
The MSM is actively running interference for his campaign. Using the Memorial Day gaffe as an recent example, when CNN aired a story about it, they blatantly edited out the part of the video when they talks about seeing "fallen heroes" in the crowd.
When the media decides who should be president and simply doesn't hold all the candidates to the same degree of scrutiny, then you have a serious problem.

[AGE-Ranger]

Er...look at your current President. Stupidity is no bar to the White House entrance gents.
I always love it when people call the loving president of the united states stupid. Yes, he got to the highest office in the world by being stupid. Give me a break. :roll:

[MaDuce]

I always love it when people call the loving president of the united states stupid. Yes, he got to the highest office in the world by being stupid. Give me a break. :roll:
I not a huge fan of Bush but it's not really fair to make fun of him for messing up on speech because most of the people who do this would be speechless when adressing billions of people on international TV.

[I can't think of a name]

Most of these gaffes are either taken out of context or are so trivial as to not matter. Some look much worse in print than they do spoken, because print doesn't capture body language or tempo or anything else that would contribute to the context. The Memorial Day 'fallen heroes' is an example of this - the intent is clear from the quote, and I doubt it would have come across as a gaffe in person, but in print it looks worse.

Really, though, this whole rush to harp on gaffes and mis-speaks and other minor verbal slip-ups is like the message board posters who go after people for minor grammatical or spelling errors and don't let up for pages and pages of posts.

There is audio and video on most of this stuff.

[California Joe]

I not a huge fan of Bush but it's not really fair to make fun of him for messing up on speech because most of the people who do this would be speechless when adressing billions of people on international TV.

Nah, it's fair. No one will ever convince me that W got into those schools on merit and not because of family connections. The guy cannot speak his native tongue. It's just plain retarded. He's had 8 f*cking years to learn how to ****ounce "noo cue ler" and he still screws it up. He really is a huge dink.

[Alpheus]

Cali joe, you realize he graduated from both universities too. Unless you're suggesting his "family connections" fiddled with his transcripts.

No one will ever convince me that W got into those schools on merit and not because of family connections. If I showed you his high School record, would that not be enough to convince you he got in because of scholastic achievement?
Do you have two degrees from the top universities in the US and 600 hours in a F-102? You don't? Does that mean you are more retarded then Dubya? /sarcasm

He isn't retarded, he's inarticulate. He has something we call an "accent". This means when he speaks, it sounds different then when you speak. I can't believe you're calling someone retarded just because he speaks differently then you.

[Lambert58]

Er...look at your current President. Stupidity is no bar to the White House entrance gents.

I'd much rather have stupid. In fact, I'd rather have some guy getting blow jobs in the oval office to some socialist/communist who's going to do to this country what the english have done to theirs.

[BloodDiamondPants]

I personally think that Obama is a plant. Yeah, it's paranoid, but so what; just because you're not doesn't mean "they're" not out to get you. Cuba likes him; nuff said.

[Lambert58]

I personally think that Obama is a plant. Yeah, it's paranoid, but so what; just because you're not doesn't mean "they're" not out to get you. Cuba likes him; nuff said.

every communist dictator on the planet goes to sleep hoping he becomes president.

[California Joe]

Cali joe, you realize he graduated from both universities too. Unless you're suggesting his "family connections" fiddled with his transcripts.
If I showed you his high School record, would that not be enough to convince you he got in because of scholastic achievement?
Do you have two degrees from the top universities in the US and 600 hours in a F-102? You don't? Does that mean you are more retarded then Dubya? /sarcasm

He isn't retarded, he's inarticulate. He has something we call an "accent". This means when he speaks, it sounds different then when you speak. I can't believe you're calling someone retarded just because he speaks differently then you.

Bullsh*t. If I had had the dough I could have gone there. It's the whole getting in that's the problem. Once you're there it ain't that different from any other college. I'm sure I could have run a couple businesses into the ground too if my Dad and oil interest buddies set me up.

It's not a f*cking accent, that has nothing to do with it. For a guy who spent more time growing up in Maine and Connecticut and Washinton DC than Texas it certainly is curious that he sounds like a simple minded hayseed though. Mis****ouncing words constantly and making up ones that don't exist in your native language is a pretty good arbiter of retardation in my book. Especially given the advantages that he's enjoyed.

[Macs.]

I am really fond of George Bush, because he always reminds me of Leslie Nielsen, and I seriously enjoy watching him walking around and just being like - nonsense. Accent ? Are you kidding ? Read/watch some of his nonsense-quotes, they have nothing to do with accent.

What I don't get about the US president race is that it seems to be a huge deal if someone makes a mistake while talking about something - I am not talking about fabricated stories, but mistakes - and there seem to be 239494 bloggers just waiting for someone to misspell something so they can come out of their holes, post a YouTube video and tell people that someone is a real Asshole and doesn't deserve to be voted for because he turned around a number.

[Alpheus]

You have a ****ed up definition of retardation.

According to the latest edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders) (DSM-IV),[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation#cite_note-4) there are three criteria before a person is considered to have a mental retardation: an IQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ) below 70, significant limitations in two or more areas of adaptive behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_behavior) (as measured by an adaptive behavior rating scale, i.e. communication, self-help skills, interpersonal skills, and more), and evidence that the limitations became apparent before the age of 18.Nothing to do with accents? Really? "He's had 8 f*cking years to learn how to ****ounce "noo cue ler" and he still screws it up."
"Mis****ouncing words constantly and making up ones that don't exist in your native language is a pretty good arbiter of retardation in my book" How are your public speaking skills joe? Let's throw you up on TV in front of the entire country and see if you stammer or mis****ounce words.

You really think a retard could be president for 8 ****ing years and no-one noticed? No, you decide to judge the guy's mental faculties solely on how he speaks in front of a camera.

[Calanen]

Bullsh*t. If I had had the dough I could have gone there. It's the whole getting in that's the problem. Once you're there it ain't that different from any other college. I'm sure I could have run a couple businesses into the ground too if my Dad and oil interest buddies set me up.


Bush by his own admission was an average student. But being related to Skull and Bones members, meant he was getting into Yale. He certainly didnt get there because of academic merit. It was on the Legacy Admission program, which he qualified for because his father went to Yale.

He also got into Harvard, and had terrible marks from Yale. Someone had to have made some calls there.

[noname]

The guy cannot speak his native tongue. It's just plain retarded. He's had 8 f*cking years to learn how to ****ounce "noo cue ler" and he still screws it up. He really is a huge dink.


He is from Texas. p-)

[Macs.]

You really think a retard could be president for 8 ****ing years and no-one noticed?

YES.

And that does not only apply to George Bush.

[California Joe]

Hahaha lighten up Francis. I don't mean a real retard. I'll let you know when I decide to run for President. Accents have nothing to do with it. Bahstin, New Yawk, Southern Drawl etc do not rearrange letters in words. His mental faculties may be intact but his judgement and verbal acumen must have been impaired by all that cocaine use before he found Jesus.

And I hate to tell you but a lot of people did notice....

By the way, if you look at any of my posts towards Obama and his qualifications to be President you'd notice that I'm not a fan.

[Alpheus]

Macs, it's more then just gaffes about the number of states. Its his entire campaign. he sends his wife out to speak for him, and then gets upset because she gets criticized. He's been a member of a church for 20 years but never noticed the reverend was a crazy racist until it hurt his campaign. The guy has associated with communists and domestic terrorists, but we can't talk about them because that would be racist. The guy's running on a platform of Hope and Change. Exactly what that change is, is anyone's guess. Obamessiah is screwing up with remarkable regularity, and the media simply ignores it.

[Hot Lips]

Give us a break already. Looking up the definition of retardation is reaching, Alpheus. You know CJ didn't mean he was a retard in the clinical sense. But, someone in his position should definitely put more effort into his communication skills. Even actors and actresses that have no where near the qualifications that he has manage to learn better speaking skills for the sake of public relations, etc. It shows a complete disregard for wanting to put his best foot forward as a representative of this nation. It would be one thing to be constantly mis****ouncing words of a foreign language... but not his own.


And before you start talking about his feet... I didn't literally mean "best foot" just as CJ didn't mean GWB actually suffers from undiagnosed mental retardation. :cantbeli:

And comparing GWB to anyone on this forum is also a moot point. GWB chose his career path and as such is held to a higher standard as the voice of our nation.

[Macs.]

Macs, it's more then just gaffes about the number of states. Its his entire campaign. he sends his wife out to speak for him, and then gets upset because she gets criticized. He's been a member of a church for 20 years but never noticed the reverend was a crazy racist until it hurt his campaign. The guy has associated with communists and domestic terrorists, but we can't talk about them because that would be racist. The guy's running on a platform of Hope and Change. Exactly what that change is, is anyone's guess. Obamessiah is screwing up with remarkable regularity, and the media simply ignores it.

I was not trying to protect Obama, as I don't care about him - I was just trying to make the point that it seems to be a alot of Nitpicking instead of talking about real, big issuses.

The thing seems to be to make the opposite candidate look incompetent, stupid or dangerous - But totally disconnected to real political targets.

[Thor]

http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

[Alpheus]

I was not trying to protect Obama, as I don't care about him - I was just trying to make the point that it seems to be a alot of Nitpicking instead of talking about real, big issues.

It is about the big issues and how the MSM isn't covering them. I think of the minor gaffes as a metaphor. Imagine if McCain had said there are 57 states? The media would be all over him like Bob Dole on a potato. The simple fact is Obama isn't scrutinized as much as a presidential candidate should be. The TV and newspapers don't report his screw-ups, just like they don't cover the general lack of substance and whishy-washiness of his policies. An example: Before the surge in Iraq, Obama said, on TV, that he believed that the surge would never work. Then just this week, one of his chief advisor's was on TV and said that Obama had always supported the surge and the media did nothing. Flip-flopping and trying to re-write history is a serious issue, yet the MSM ignored it. That is the problem.

[schwarz]

so you're a socialist/marxist?

wrong country.

Haha spot on.


Most of these gaffes are either taken out of context or are so trivial as to not matter. Some look much worse in print than they do spoken, because print doesn't capture body language or tempo or anything else that would contribute to the context. The Memorial Day 'fallen heroes' is an example of this - the intent is clear from the quote, and I doubt it would have come across as a gaffe in person, but in print it looks worse.

Really, though, this whole rush to harp on gaffes and mis-speaks and other minor verbal slip-ups is like the message board posters who go after people for minor grammatical or spelling errors and don't let up for pages and pages of posts.

I agree someof these 'gaffes' are a bit played up, but when you put them all together with other comments **** his wife has said and who he associates with(not just Wright) Obama paints a very bad picture of who he really is. Not to mention these little gems.


Iran, Cuba, Venezuela — these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying, `We're going to wipe you off the planet."
Pendleton, Oregon, May 18, 2008



Let me be absolutely clear: Iran is a grave threat
Billings, Montana, May 19, 2008




"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.
"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.


But I'll just keep on being bitter and clinging to my guns and religion.

[I can't think of a name]

Quit talking about Bush, this thread is about OBama's intelligence.

[California Joe]

Me too schwarzy. I feel I'm entitled. p-)

[annihilation]

I agree someof these 'gaffes' are a bit played up, but when you put them all together with other comments **** his wife has said and who he associates with(not just Wright) Obama paints a very bad picture of who he really is. Not to mention these little gems.


I feel the same way now. I didn't mind him before but he has had two radical priests. Its not a good picture at all.

[Zoomie]

I feel the same way now. I didn't mind him before but he has had two radical priests. Its not a good picture at all.
And you gotta like how he tosses his church of 20yrs under the bus suddenly when it's become a political liability.

[I can't think of a name]

Yep, even after he defended the church as an "Integral part of His Family"

[JKD]

The faux outrage brigade would be out in full internet and talk radio force either way.

[Calanen]

Obama wants to bring in the Global Poverty Act. He sponsored it in the Senate, it will get knocked down no doubt..but not if he is President. Sounds great doesnt it? But what it does is give $845 Billion of US taxpayer money to the UN (annually?), overseen by the UN's Millenium Development bureacrats that has as one of its aims the removal of all small arms from civilians.

Yeah - that's something I'd want my taxes spent on. Obama for Prez!

[noname]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Jetsnake/kn0321ccd.jpg?t=1212290355

[AGE-Ranger]

Nah, it's fair. No one will ever convince me that W got into those schools on merit and not because of family connections. The guy cannot speak his native tongue. It's just plain retarded. He's had 8 f*cking years to learn how to ****ounce "noo cue ler" and he still screws it up. He really is a huge dink.

If you're basing it purely on speech, than I can deluge you with footage of many other president/politicians doing the same.


What I don't get about the US president race is that it seems to be a huge deal if someone makes a mistake while talking about something - I am not talking about fabricated stories, but mistakes - and there seem to be 239494 bloggers just waiting for someone to misspell something so they can come out of their holes, post a YouTube video and tell people that someone is a real Asshole and doesn't deserve to be voted for because he turned around a number.I don't know which side started it, but at some point one side did it to the other in spite. Ever since, its been a non stop game of gotcha.

[Lambert58]

Obama wants to bring in the Global Poverty Act. He sponsored it in the Senate, it will get knocked down no doubt..but not if he is President. Sounds great doesnt it? But what it does is give $845 Billion of US taxpayer money to the UN (annually?), overseen by the UN's Millenium Development bureacrats that has as one of its aims the removal of all small arms from civilians.

Yeah - that's something I'd want my taxes spent on. Obama for Prez!

we're so fu**ed

[Hilbert]

Obama wants to bring in the Global Poverty Act. He sponsored it in the Senate, it will get knocked down no doubt..but not if he is President. Sounds great doesnt it? But what it does is give $845 Billion of US taxpayer money to the UN (annually?), overseen by the UN's Millenium Development bureacrats that has as one of its aims the removal of all small arms from civilians.

Yeah - that's something I'd want my taxes spent on. Obama for Prez!

Eight hundred and Forty Five BILLION!? What the fvck!? And to the United Nations of all things... screw that! I never trusted the man to begin with (my policy is never trusting politicians regardless of right or left) but jesus this is downright scary.

[LRPV]

Eight hundred and Forty Five BILLION!? What the fvck!? And to the United Nations of all things... screw that!

Vote Obama or Yo Mama, either Democrat will provide hefty support to the U.N.

[BloodDiamondPants]

Perhaps the South will indeed rise again! Who knows...LOL. This guy missed his calling as a comedian. I wouldn't give the U.N. a ham sandwich. I might piss on it if it was on fire, but I'd "aks" for the salt back. I like to lightly salt my ham sandwiches you see?

[Lambert58]

Eight hundred and Forty Five BILLION!? What the fvck!? And to the United Nations of all things... screw that!

Oh. Don't think that this arseclown hasn't got your grandkids' $$ already spent to "help" every lazy arsed nitwit on the continent. and that continent. and the other one, too.

[Hilbert]

Just lovable, there's Mr. Cold War on the Right and Queen Communism and her trusty sidekick Socialist Boy on the Left... can't this country produce a single candidate worth voting for.

Bah, pardon my endless ranting.

[Lambert58]

Just lovable, there's Mr. Cold War on the Right and Queen Communism and her trusty sidekick Socialist Boy on the Left... can't this country produce a single candidate worth voting for.

Bah, pardon my endless ranting.

Don't apologize. We have 360 million people and the best we can spew forth to lead the nation are these dumbasses. It's pretty damn pathetic.

[BloodDiamondPants]

I feel your pain Hilbert; you're not the only one.

[Lambert58]

In my military experience, the best commanders were the ones that really didn't feel comfortable commanding.

we need to find a way to elect those people to office.

[Calanen]

http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=22&num=18845


Barack Obama's Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote

By Cliff Kincaid
Feb 12, 2008

A nice-sounding bill called the "Global Poverty Act," sponsored by Democratic presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama, is up for a Senate vote on Thursday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. The bill, which has the support of many liberal religious groups, makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations.

Barack Obama's Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote

Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has not endorsed either Senator Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in the presidential race. But on Thursday, February 14, he is trying to rush Obama’s “Global Poverty Act” (S.2433) through his committee. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends.

The bill, which is item number four on the committee’s business meeting agenda, passed the House by a voice vote last year because most members didn’t realize what was in it. Congressional sponsors have been careful not to calculate the amount of foreign aid spending that it would require. According to the website of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, no hearings have been held on the Obama bill in that body.

A release from the Obama Senate office about the bill declares, “In 2000, the U.S. joined more than 180 countries at the United Nations Millennium Summit and vowed to reduce global poverty by 2015. We are halfway towards this deadline, and it is time the United States makes it a priority of our foreign policy to meet this goal and help those who are struggling day to day.”

The legislation itself requires the President “to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.”

The bill defines the term “Millennium Development Goals” as the goals set out in the United Nations Millennium Declaration, General Assembly Resolution 55/2 (2000).

The U.N. says that “The commitment to provide 0.7% of gross national product (GNP) as official development assistance was first made 35 years ago in a General Assembly resolution, but it has been reaffirmed repeatedly over the years, including at the 2002 global Financing for Development conference in Monterrey, Mexico. However, in 2004, total aid from the industrialized countries totaled just $78.6 billion—or about 0.25% of their collective GNP.”

In addition to seeking to eradicate poverty, that declaration commits nations to banning “small arms and light weapons” and ratifying a series of treaties, including the International Criminal Court Treaty, the Kyoto Protocol (global warming treaty), the Convention on Biological Diversity, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The Millennium Declaration also affirms the U.N. as “the indispensable common house of the entire human family, through which we will seek to realize our universal aspirations for peace, cooperation and development.”

Jeffrey Sachs, who runs the U.N.’s “Millennium Project,” says that the U.N. plan to force the U.S. to pay 0.7 percent of GNP in increased foreign aid spending would add $65 billion a year to what the U.S. already spends. Over a 13-year period, from 2002, when the U.N.’s Financing for Development conference was held, to the target year of 2015, when the U.S. is expected to meet the “Millennium Development Goals,” this amounts to $845 billion. And the only way to raise that kind of money, Sachs has written, is through a global tax, preferably on carbon-emitting fossil fuels.

Obama’s bill has only six co-sponsors. They are Senators Maria Cantwell, Dianne Feinstein, Richard Lugar, Richard Durbin, Chuck Hagel and Robert Menendez. But it appears that Biden and Obama see passage of this bill as a way to highlight Democratic Party priorities in the Senate.

The House version (H.R. 1302), sponsored by Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), had only 84 co-sponsors before it was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

It appears the Senate version is being pushed not only by Biden and Obama, a member of the committee, but Lugar, the ranking Republican member. Lugar has worked with Obama in the past to promote more foreign aid for Russia, supposedly to stem nuclear proliferation, and has become Obama’s mentor. Like Biden, Lugar is a globalist. They have both promoted passage of the U.N.’s Law of the Sea Treaty, for example.

The so-called “Lugar-Obama initiative” was modeled after the Nunn-Lugar program, also known as the Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) program, which was designed to eliminate weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. But one defense analyst, Rich Kelly, noted evidence that “CTR funds have eased the Russian military’s budgetary woes, freeing resources for such initiatives as the war in Chechnya and defense modernization.” He recommended that Congress “eliminate CTR funding so that it does not finance additional, perhaps more threatening, programs in the former Soviet Union.” However, over $6 billion has already been spent on the program.

Another program modeled on Nunn-Lugar, the Initiatives for Proliferation Prevention (IPP), was recently exposed as having funded nuclear projects in Iran through Russia.

More foreign aid through passage of the Global Poverty Act was identified as one of the strategic goals of InterAction, the alliance of U.S-based international non-governmental organizations that lobbies for more foreign aid. The group is heavily financed by the U.S. Government, having received $1.4 million from taxpayers in fiscal year 2005 and $1.7 million in 2006. However, InterAction recently issued a report accusing the United States of “falling short on its commitment to rid the world of dire poverty by 2015 under the U.N. Millennium Development Goals…”

It’s not clear what President Bush would do if the bill passes the Senate. The bill itself quotes Bush as declaring that “We fight against poverty because opportunity is a fundamental right to human dignity.” Bush’s former top aide, Michael J. Gerson, writes in his new book, Heroic Conservatism, that Bush should be remembered as the President who “sponsored the largest percentage increases in foreign assistance since the Marshall Plan…”

Even these increases, however, will not be enough to satisfy the requirements of the Obama bill. A global tax will clearly be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.

* Americans who would like their senators to know what they are voting on can contact them through information at the official Senate site.

Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of Accuracy in Media.

[Note its actually $65 Billion per annum, 850 Billion over the life of the program to the UN. Still about 850 Billion more than they deserve.]

[BloodDiamondPants]

We must find the guy "flying a cargo plane, full of rubber dog-sh*t out of Hong Kong!" He'll know what to do! :)

http://www.militarytimes.com/xml/entertainment/movies/military_afi_topgun_070709/topgun_800px.JPG

[noname]

After watching these numbskull democrats debate what to do with the unseated delegates from Florida and Michigan today........

People want to give them full reign over all three branches of government, and judicial nominees?

[Alpheus]

Thank god I live in Canada. p-)

[noname]

Now with barry resigning from his church, will he lose the vast support of his black voters? I think it won't matter much anyway, but I think how he reacts to everything is telling as to how he would lead. Poorly.

[I can't think of a name]

I Think Obama calculated that Blacks will still vote for him despite the fact that he basically slapped them in the face by resigning. Shows the respect he has for them.

[epictetus]

Keep the UN out of my porch!!!!:bash:

[BloodDiamondPants]

The good news here is; anybody with a baseball bat, and one ******** can keep the U.N. off their porch.

[budgie]

From Wikipedia:

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject."

[SBL]

No doubt they'll rail all over him at the next sermon for giving up on them. The media won't notice that though: the blood-hungry buggers are only interested in blaming him for other people's gaffes.

Poor, poor Obama. Guy can't catch a break.p-)

[Marmot1]

Obama also spoke about his uncle, who was part of the American brigade that helped to liberate Auschwitz. He said the family legend is that, upon returning from war, his uncle spent six months in an attic. “Now obviously, something had really affected him deeply, but at that time there just weren’t the kinds of facilities to help somebody work through that kind of pain,” Obama said. “That’s why this idea of making sure that every single veteran, when they are discharged, are screened for post-traumatic stress disorder and given the mental health services that they need – that’s why it’s so important.”Interesting... especially if you take into account that Auschwitz was liberated by Red Army...

[AGE-Ranger]

Now with barry resigning from his church, will he lose the vast support of his black voters? I think it won't matter much anyway, but I think how he reacts to everything is telling as to how he would lead. Poorly.

the DNC media is spinning it as, "he left his church to spare them from those damn racist at foxnews. " On MSNBC this morning, they kept saying this like "supposed controversy", "it must have been a hard decision for Obama".

Can you imagine if McCain attended an "unashamedly white" church for 20 years and still had racist pastors spewing hate daily? Not only would he be unfit for the office, but he might be ran right out of the country. The double standard being displayed is monumental.


From Wikipedia:

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject."

The subject is the question of Obama's ability to run this country. The fact he goes to a racist church and cant seem to bring himself to admit it, is a very big factor in that question. What exactly do you want the media to talk about? His socialist leanings, ridiculous taxes, complete lack of foreign policy experience or what he plans to do about the country's oil needs? When he ends up getting clobbered on everyone of those issues, are you going to start crying that we aren't focusing on "the real issues"?

Definition of "real issues": Any issue that doesn't reflect negatively on Obama.

I just searched your posts and I don't see a single one where you defend Bush from this kind of thing. We just went through 8 years of elementary school style insults against a sitting president, forged documents to influence his election and more conspiracy theories than I've ever seen. You didn't seem to take any issue with that.


Poor, poor Obama. Guy can't catch a break.p-)

Yeah I know. Having almost every major media outlet in your tank must be torture.

[khukuri]

In my military experience, the best commanders were the ones that really didn't feel comfortable commanding.

we need to find a way to elect those people to office.

Having been politically active for 10 year I agree with you on this one. Its an epic and continuing problem that doesn't seem to have a solution other than that more people get active in their respective parties.

[BloodDiamondPants]

Having been politically active for 10 year I agree with you on this one. Its an epic and continuing problem that doesn't seem to have a solution other than that more people get active in their respective parties.


A problem as old as society itself; too much "well planned system" and not enough "gut feeling" about who we put in charge. The more technologically advanced the system, the more it weeds out the opportunity for "the good guys" to slip in under the radar. It's touted as progress, but...

We defiantly have to stop relying upon "formal education" and "good schools" so much. Any person intelligent enough to keep their mouth shut can get through college these days. Being "well groomed" just means you're likely to not cause headaches to the established powers-that-be, and not much else. The problem is, the powers-that-be don't know everything, even though they think they do. Isn't the beginning of "wisdom" admitting that you don't know everything? I was always taught so.

[budgie]

What exactly do you want the media to talk about? His socialist leanings, ridiculous taxes, complete lack of foreign policy experience or what he plans to do about the country's oil needs? When he ends up getting clobbered on everyone of those issues, are you going to start crying that we aren't focusing on "the real issues"?


Those are the issues so I wouldn't 'cry' over that. Though I might word it differently mate these are the things I'd expect media coverage of.


I just searched your posts and I don't see a single one where you defend Bush from this kind of thing. We just went through 8 years of elementary school style insults against a sitting president, forged documents to influence his election and more conspiracy theories than I've ever seen. You didn't seem to take any issue with that.

In my opinion Bush's litany of failures speak for themselves, but his alleged social and religious acquaintances are of little interest to me as Obama's. If you want to go there open another thread.

[AGE-Ranger]

Those are the issues so I wouldn't 'cry' over that. Though I might word it differently mate these are the things I'd expect media coverage of.

There is a reason they don't, but if a white president went to a white church that preached this way about blacks, he wouldn't have a chance in hell of being in the general election. Its not an issue for Bush or McCain because they never attended such a church.

[I can't think of a name]

In my opinion Bush's litany of failures speak for themselves, but his alleged social and religious acquaintances are of little interest to me as Obama's. If you want to go there open another thread.

Red Herring, you attack Bush for what you perceive as failures as a way to protect Obama. However there is nothing to say back to you because ......... Obama has no record or experience in running anything. So on what we CAN COMPARE he, like Bush, makes a lot of verbal gaffes when he is in unscripted situations.

[philbob]

http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=22&num=18845


Barack Obama's Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote

By Cliff Kincaid
Feb 12, 2008

A nice-sounding bill called the "Global Poverty Act," sponsored by Democratic presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama, is up for a Senate vote on Thursday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. The bill, which has the support of many liberal religious groups, makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations.

Barack Obama's Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote

Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has not endorsed either Senator Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in the presidential race. But on Thursday, February 14, he is trying to rush Obama’s “Global Poverty Act” (S.2433) through his committee. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends.

The bill, which is item number four on the committee’s business meeting agenda, passed the House by a voice vote last year because most members didn’t realize what was in it. Congressional sponsors have been careful not to calculate the amount of foreign aid spending that it would require. According to the website of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, no hearings have been held on the Obama bill in that body.

A release from the Obama Senate office about the bill declares, “In 2000, the U.S. joined more than 180 countries at the United Nations Millennium Summit and vowed to reduce global poverty by 2015. We are halfway towards this deadline, and it is time the United States makes it a priority of our foreign policy to meet this goal and help those who are struggling day to day.”

The legislation itself requires the President “to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.”

The bill defines the term “Millennium Development Goals” as the goals set out in the United Nations Millennium Declaration, General Assembly Resolution 55/2 (2000).

The U.N. says that “The commitment to provide 0.7% of gross national product (GNP) as official development assistance was first made 35 years ago in a General Assembly resolution, but it has been reaffirmed repeatedly over the years, including at the 2002 global Financing for Development conference in Monterrey, Mexico. However, in 2004, total aid from the industrialized countries totaled just $78.6 billion—or about 0.25% of their collective GNP.”

In addition to seeking to eradicate poverty, that declaration commits nations to banning “small arms and light weapons” and ratifying a series of treaties, including the International Criminal Court Treaty, the Kyoto Protocol (global warming treaty), the Convention on Biological Diversity, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The Millennium Declaration also affirms the U.N. as “the indispensable common house of the entire human family, through which we will seek to realize our universal aspirations for peace, cooperation and development.”

Jeffrey Sachs, who runs the U.N.’s “Millennium Project,” says that the U.N. plan to force the U.S. to pay 0.7 percent of GNP in increased foreign aid spending would add $65 billion a year to what the U.S. already spends. Over a 13-year period, from 2002, when the U.N.’s Financing for Development conference was held, to the target year of 2015, when the U.S. is expected to meet the “Millennium Development Goals,” this amounts to $845 billion. And the only way to raise that kind of money, Sachs has written, is through a global tax, preferably on carbon-emitting fossil fuels.

Obama’s bill has only six co-sponsors. They are Senators Maria Cantwell, Dianne Feinstein, Richard Lugar, Richard Durbin, Chuck Hagel and Robert Menendez. But it appears that Biden and Obama see passage of this bill as a way to highlight Democratic Party priorities in the Senate.

The House version (H.R. 1302), sponsored by Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), had only 84 co-sponsors before it was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

It appears the Senate version is being pushed not only by Biden and Obama, a member of the committee, but Lugar, the ranking Republican member. Lugar has worked with Obama in the past to promote more foreign aid for Russia, supposedly to stem nuclear proliferation, and has become Obama’s mentor. Like Biden, Lugar is a globalist. They have both promoted passage of the U.N.’s Law of the Sea Treaty, for example.

The so-called “Lugar-Obama initiative” was modeled after the Nunn-Lugar program, also known as the Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) program, which was designed to eliminate weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. But one defense analyst, Rich Kelly, noted evidence that “CTR funds have eased the Russian military’s budgetary woes, freeing resources for such initiatives as the war in Chechnya and defense modernization.” He recommended that Congress “eliminate CTR funding so that it does not finance additional, perhaps more threatening, programs in the former Soviet Union.” However, over $6 billion has already been spent on the program.

Another program modeled on Nunn-Lugar, the Initiatives for Proliferation Prevention (IPP), was recently exposed as having funded nuclear projects in Iran through Russia.

More foreign aid through passage of the Global Poverty Act was identified as one of the strategic goals of InterAction, the alliance of U.S-based international non-governmental organizations that lobbies for more foreign aid. The group is heavily financed by the U.S. Government, having received $1.4 million from taxpayers in fiscal year 2005 and $1.7 million in 2006. However, InterAction recently issued a report accusing the United States of “falling short on its commitment to rid the world of dire poverty by 2015 under the U.N. Millennium Development Goals…”

It’s not clear what President Bush would do if the bill passes the Senate. The bill itself quotes Bush as declaring that “We fight against poverty because opportunity is a fundamental right to human dignity.” Bush’s former top aide, Michael J. Gerson, writes in his new book, Heroic Conservatism, that Bush should be remembered as the President who “sponsored the largest percentage increases in foreign assistance since the Marshall Plan…”

Even these increases, however, will not be enough to satisfy the requirements of the Obama bill. A global tax will clearly be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.

* Americans who would like their senators to know what they are voting on can contact them through information at the official Senate site.

Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of Accuracy in Media.

[Note its actually $65 Billion per annum, 850 Billion over the life of the program to the UN. Still about 850 Billion more than they deserve.]



:bash:

PEople are asking to get assisnated or to start a popular rebelion

[hell]

Did I somehow kill the thread, or does no one really care anymore?

[Firefly26]

Clinton to say Obama has enough delegates
Aides: N.Y. senator will stop short of formally suspending or ending her race

CHICAGO - Hillary Rodham Clinton will concede Tuesday night that Barack Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, campaign officials said, effectively ending her bid to be the nation's first female president.

The former first lady will stop short of formally suspending or ending her race in her speech in New York City. She will pledge to continue to speak out on issues like health care. But for all intents and purposes, the two senior officials said, the campaign is over.

Most campaign staff will be let go and will be paid through June 15, said the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to divulge her plans.

The advisers said Clinton made a strategic decision to not formally end her campaign, giving her leverage to negotiate with Obama on various matters including a possible vice presidential nomination for her. She also wants to press him on issues he should focus on in the fall, such as health care.

History within his reach, Obama was primed to claim the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday or soon after as voters in Montana and South Dakota bring his months-long contest with dogged rival to a close.

Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe said Tuesday that once Obama gets the majority of convention delegates, "I think Hillary Clinton will congratulate him and call him the nominee."

The outcome could come by the end of the day with some choreography by the party's superdelegates. The party insiders were lining up behind Obama at a rate that could seal the nomination once results are in from Montana and South Dakota — or even before.

Two more superdelegates endorsed him Tuesday morning, from Michigan and Missouri, leaving him just 40 delegates short of the 2,118 needed to put him over the top and make him the nation's first black presidential nominee from a major party.

Challenge unlikely
Clinton, once seen as a sure bet in her historic quest to become the first female president, was still pressing the superdelegates to support her fading candidacy. But McAuliffe indicated she was not inclined to drag out a dispute over delegates from the unsanctioned Michigan primary despite feeling shortchanged by a weekend compromise by the party's rules committee that she could still appeal to a higher level.

"I don't think she's going to go to the credentials committee," he said on NBC's "Today" show. Taking the matter to that committee would essentially extend the dispute into the convention and deny Democrats the unity they sorely want to achieve against Republican John McCain.

Seeing the cards fall into place for his November rival, McCain planned a prime time speech Tuesday night in the New Orleans suburb of Kenner, La., in what is essentially a kickoff of the fall campaign.

Obama told The Associated Press on Monday that "we've got a lot of work to do in terms of bringing the party together" with the convention approaching.

On Tuesday, House Majority Whip and unpledged delegate James Clyburn told the TODAY show that he was throwing his support behind Obama.

"I believe the nomination of Senator Obama is our party's best chance for victory in November, and our nation's best hope for much needed change," the South Carolina representative said.

"Once the last votes are cast, then it's in everybody's interest to resolve this quickly so we can pivot," he added.

Obama said there were a lot of superdelegates who have been private supporters of his but wanted to respect the process by not endorsing until the final primaries were done.

"We're still working the phones and we're still talking to people ... so we'll certainly have to wait until a little later tonight to see what the final tally is, but we certainly feel good waking up this morning," Robert Gibbs, Obama's spokesman, told CNN on Tuesday.

In a defiant shot across the GOP bow, Obama, who returned to hometown Chicago late Monday, planned to hold his wrap-up rally in St. Paul, Minn., at the arena that will be the site of the Republican National Convention in September.

Clinton rally in NYC
Clinton returned to New York, the state she represents in the Senate, planning an end-of-primary evening rally in Manhattan after a grueling campaign finale as she pushed through South Dakota on Monday.

"I'm just very grateful we kept this campaign going until South Dakota would have the last word," she said at a restaurant in Rapid City in one of her final campaign stops. Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.

She still sounded buoyant. Her biggest booster and most tireless campaigner, husband Bill Clinton, didn't. "This may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind," the former president said somberly as he stumped for her in South Dakota.

Ahead of Tuesday's concluding primaries, Obama sought to set the stage for reconciliation, praising Clinton's endurance and determination and offering to meet with her — on her terms — "once the dust settles" from their race.

"The sooner we can bring the party together, the sooner we can start focusing on McCain in November," Obama told reporters in Michigan. He said he spoke with Clinton on Sunday when he called to congratulate her on winning the Puerto Rico primary, most likely her last hurrah.

Clinton as running mate?
That fueled speculation for a "dream ticket" in which Clinton would become Obama's running mate — but neither camp was suggesting that was much of a possibility.

In the AP interview, Obama was asked when he would start looking for a running mate.

"The day after I have gotten that last delegate needed to officially claim the nomination, I'll start thinking about vice presidential nominees," he said. "It's a very important decision, and it's one where I'm going to have to take some time."

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24944453

[hank]

I think nobody cares anymore. You certainly didn't kill it with anything I read.

Looks like Hillary will be conceding this week. Obama v. McCain on 08. Should be fun times.

hank

[Createdeemcee]

I think nobody cares anymore. You certainly didn't kill it with anything I read.

Looks like Hillary will be conceding this week. Obama v. McCain on 08. Should be fun times.

hank


Yup at this point it's time to moove forward.



So tell me Democrats, where's the outrage over the use of the glowing cross, as with Huckabee's Christmas ad, this is more blatant than when people were freaking out over intersecting bookshelves in the background which made a cross? Where's the outrage over the lack of separation of church and state?


Much Nicer looking the the Che flag on the wall.

[MCWARPIG]

I think most people were bored with the Dem nomination games.


Anyone hear about this "secret weapon" republicans are holding for Obama? Something about Michelle Obama I hear.

[hell]

Anyone hear about this "secret weapon" republicans are holding for Obama? Something about Michelle Obama I hear.

I haven't heard anything about that. You have any links to the story?

On a side-note, I'm not only looking forward to getting this nomination saga done with, I'm kind of excited to see what happens when McCain and Obama start attacking one another. I think it will be pretty funny to watch some old white guy try to dance around every topic in a way that won't allow them to pull the race card.

I think it will be fairly sad for two reasons: because a lot of Dems/Liberals will be teething to do it, and if Obama's campaign (let alone the man himself) actually uses it, that will just be going to a level that isn't productive on any front.

[hank]

AGE-Ranger has been spouting about that for a while. I'm highly skeptical that it exists but hasn't been widely reported and/or leaked.

Political campaigns are not good secret-keepers.

hank

[hank]

On a side-note, I'm not only looking forward to getting this nomination saga done with, I'm kind of excited to see what happens when McCain and Obama start attacking one another. I think it will be pretty funny to watch some old white guy try to dance around every topic in a way that won't allow them to pull the race card.


I agree with this. I also don't think its a McCain runaway right now. All the reputable polls I'm seeing say its a statistical dead-heat between them. And I think that is probably right.

McCain will have his hands full and I'm not convinced right now he can win. Much will change between now and election night and the wrangling that will take place should be good stuff.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

I've been posting here and there about a possible bombshell for Obama, a tape of Michelle Obama giving a "fiery" sermon at Trinity. Apparently, it might drop tomorrow.

(3:38)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9zmdhoGKdrk

[Sanat-e-naft]

McCain and Obama are in a dead heat simply because Hitlery has been mucking things up. McCain has a short fuse, and is not nearly as bright as Obama. Put them head to head in a debate and I think there is a very strong chance there will be a Nixon v. Kennedy debate. It will be a strong contrast between the two. Conservatives will vote for McCain and Liberals for Obama. However, the middle of the road may be turned off by McCain's lack of knowledge of foreign policy and economics and impressed by a new voice. Just how I see it, clearly other will disagree.

[Chulo]

I think most people were bored with the Dem nomination games.


Anyone hear about this "secret weapon" republicans are holding for Obama? Something about Michelle Obama I hear.
that she has a big mouth and doent care much for America? ;)

[ronnieraygun]

I think the secret weapon thing is pretty dubious. It probably amounts to she was some sort of radical carpet muncher in college or something. So what. McCain's wife apparently never met a pill she didn't like. Bill and Hillary were probably much worse in college, smoking dope and jumping rope and what not.

[Sanat-e-naft]

Sure lets focus on Michelle Obama, and not the fact that 6 years later McCain doesnt know that Iran (Shiite) doent fund AQ (Sunni) but Hezbollah; and that Ahmadinejad is not in power in Iran. This kind of BS is how we ended up with a C student president for the past 8 years.

[hank]

AGE jsut opened another thread about this. Apparently a democrat analyst on FOX NEWS says there is a bombshell coming out tomorrow but won't say what it is.

I can't say it won't happen but I'm more skeptical now than before.

hank

[hell]

I agree with this. I also don't think its a McCain runaway right now. All the reputable polls I'm seeing say its a statistical dead-heat between them. And I think that is probably right.
hank

That's the horrible thing concerning polls though, they're usually off by some degree on a regular basis. Just like any other propaganda, polls can be manipulated or presented in a way to produce a certain outcome. I'm convinced alot of the polls that NBC uses are conducted next to the ACLU booth at the menopause conference...


Conservatives will vote for McCain and Liberals for Obama.

Another point that needs to be considered are the Ron Paul and Ralph Nadar trump cards. IIRC, RP is running under the Libertarians since he didn't get the Republican nomination?

And last I read, Nadar was planning on running, just like he did in '00 and '04. Remember the whole "spoiler" trip the Dems wouldn't (and still don't) shut up about? Take that and add yet another variable (RP). I don't believe either one of them will get a substantial amount of the national popular vote, but it will be pretty interesting to see what effect it could have on a state-by-state basis.

[hank]

Yeah I agree about polls. I like this blog though - he's very objective IMO.

www.realclearpolitics.com

My law partner knows the guy who does it and he's a former Republican campaing staffer who just started this blog.

Check out the polls on his blog. They are a dead heat IIRC.

hank

[JKD]

Another point that needs to be considered are the Ron Paul and Ralph Nadar trump cards. IIRC, RP is running under the Libertarians since he didn't get the Republican nomination?



Bob Barr is the Libertarian nominee. RP is still with the Republicans.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Michelle’s Obama’s philosophical mindset and it’s proximity to the decision making process of the executive is highly relevant as well as McCain’s knowledge and Clinton’s entanglements. So, yes let’s focus on Michelle Obama, her spouse, other candidate’s friends and family, records etc. Drag them all kicking and screaming out before the people who have a right to know just what crappy choices the politicos are giving them to select.
Do not water her or others of her poisoned mindset down.

[Createdeemcee]

McCain and Obama are in a dead heat simply because Hitlery has been mucking things up. McCain has a short fuse, and is not nearly as bright as Obama. Put them head to head in a debate and I think there is a very strong chance there will be a Nixon v. Kennedy debate. It will be a strong contrast between the two. Conservatives will vote for McCain and Liberals for Obama. However, the middle of the road may be turned off by McCain's lack of knowledge of foreign policy and economics and impressed by a new voice. Just how I see it, clearly other will disagree.


I agree with that. Everyone I know, wether voting for Hill or O, will be Going with the nominee.



Michelle’s Obama’s philosophical mindset and it’s proximity to the decision making process of the executive is highly relevant as well as McCain’s knowledge and Clinton’s entanglements. So, yes let’s focus on Michelle Obama, her spouse, other candidate’s friends and family, records etc. Drag them all kicking and screaming out before the people who have a right to know just what crappy choices the politicos are giving them to select.
Do not water her or others of her poisoned mindset down.


We went from the best run country to the worst in the last 2 terms. You can make them Kick Scream, and Fart before the election, and I tell yah they will still win, simply because NO ONE will forget these last 8 years.

[hell]

Bob Barr is the Libertarian nominee. RP is still with the Republicans.

Ah, alright. I could have sworn I read somewhere Paul was going to run under another party (or as an Independant) after the nomination was given to McCain.

[hank]

Ah, alright. I could have sworn I read somewhere Paul was going to run under another party (or as an Independant) after the nomination was given to McCain.

You probably have read that as I have as well. But Barr did get the nomination and I don't think Paul ever seriously pursued it.

hank

[gobdav]

I've been hearing about this for the past couple of days. It'll be very interesting to see how that affects things, if it's true.

[Dominique]

OMG!!!!, tape of Obama burps in church, and not saying excuse me, to to be released to the public!!!!! First off I have no intention of voting for this man, but I'm growing tired of all the "bombshells". Who the hell cares what his wife, pastor, mail man, or his dry cleaner says. I'm not voting for him because I don't agree with several of HIS stated policies. This is getting a bit ridiculous people, every time this guy farts, someone is posting a tape on the net, or claiming it's all part of some vast conspiracy. if your not going to vote for him, that's fine and dandy, but at least base your decision on what he actually does and says.

[gobdav]

When did Obama fart!?!?!

[Merfeller]

OMG!!!!, tape of Obama burps in church, and not saying excuse me, to to be released to the public!!!!! First off I have no intention of voting for this man, but I'm growing tired of all the "bombshells". Who the hell cares what his wife, pastor, mail man, or his dry cleaner says. I'm not voting for him because I don't agree with several of HIS stated policies. This is getting a bit ridiculous people, every time this guy farts, someone is posting a tape on the net, or claiming it's all part of some vast conspiracy. if your not going to vote for him, that's fine and dandy, but at least base your decision on what he actually does and says.

Associations matter. If you don't want every word and every move you make scrutinized, don't run for office - especially President. It comes with the territory.

But never mind all that. Obama quit that church. Hence, nothing that ever happened there can be held against him. In fact, nothing can be held against him at all. Period. And it's racist and ignorant of you to criticize him in any way, shape, or form.

[hank]

You guys crack me up. At least when Obama gets elected you'll all have something to complain about for the next 8 years.

hank

[schwarz]

Bombshell tape...maybe, but we know what Hillary is banking on.


"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out.

[ronnieraygun]

But never mind all that. Obama quit that church. Hence, nothing that ever happened there can be held against him. In fact, nothing can be held against him at all. Period. And it's racist and ignorant of you to criticize him in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah, black guys in America have caught all the breaks. They have had it so easy for decades and we've bent over backwards for them throughout our history. rofl

[AGE-Ranger]

You guys crack me up. At least when Obama gets elected you'll all have something to complain about for the next 8 years.

hank

What is it that attracts you to Obama, given hes completely surrounded by radical nut jobs? If its true that his wife has said some crazy things at Trinity, doesn't it raise questions about who he is? He claimed he never heard any of this stuff in 20 years! Even without his wife, thats unbelievable. I just cannot fathom anyone supporting a white president surrounding himself with these kind of people.

[Merfeller]

Yeah, black guys in America have caught all the breaks. They have had it so easy for decades and we've bent over backwards for them throughout our history. rofl

Yeah, Harvard grads really suffer.

[hank]

What is it that attracts you to Obama, given hes completely surrounded by radical nut jobs? If its true that his wife has said some crazy things, doesn't it raise questions about who he is? He claimed he never heard any of this stuff for 20 years!

You need to read a lot more. I've said about 1000 times that nothing attracts me to Obama but I view him as the lesser of evils. But your (and others) paranoia about him is bordering on hilarity.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

You need to read a lot more. I've said about 1000 times that nothing attracts me to Obama but I view him as the lesser of evils. But your (and others) paranoia about him is bordering on hilarity.

hank

So, you would have no problem voting for a president who attended an unapologetic white church, preaching white vales, with a racist as his mentor for 20 years? It wouldn't make any difference?

Ugh, we have been over this countless times.

[hank]

What is it that attracts you to Obama, given hes completely surrounded by radical nut jobs? If its true that his wife has said some crazy things at Trinity, doesn't it raise questions about who he is? He claimed he never heard any of this stuff in 20 years! Even without his wife, thats unbelievable. I just cannot fathom anyone supporting a white president surrounding himself with these kind of people.

I think it absolutely hysterical that you think that black and white experiences of politicians are the same such that you can make this statement. Our world views are just not aligned. Ok, that's fine.

But you don't see me obsessing about McCain and W, do you? Give it a rest. If you are right Obama will be another Mondale. If not he'll be President and then everyday for the next 8 years for you is gravy. If things go well you can say he got lucky. If things go bad you can say I told you so. You're in a win-win.

hank

[gobdav]

I just don't think he's qualified to be a leader during a time of war.

[Skutatos]

You guys crack me up. At least when Obama gets elected you'll all have something to complain about for the next 8 years.

hank

4 years if he gets elected, he wouldn't get re-elected once the honeymoon was over.

[ronnieraygun]

Yeah, Harvard grads really suffer.

^^LOL. Well played.

I can't stream videos at work, can someone tell me what was on that youtube link?

[AGE-Ranger]

I think it absolutely hysterical that you think that black and white experiences of politicians are the same such that you can make this statement. Our world views are just not aligned. Ok, that's fine.


No, I just judge people equally and not based on skin color. Apparently thats going out of style.


^^LOL. Well played.

I can't stream videos at work, can someone tell me what was on that youtube link?

Bob Beckel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Beckel)

[hank]

So, you would have no problem voting for a president who attended an unapologetic white church, preaching white vales, with a racist as his mentor for 20 years? It wouldn't make any difference?

Ugh, we have been over this countless times.


Yes I would have a problem with that. Whites were not sold into slavery in this country. White men's right to vote wasn't steamrolled for 100 years. Etc., etc., etc. As a country we have treated African Americans terribly ans some are mad about it. I understand and expect that. So should you.

Whereas, what on earth does W have to be pissed about? He got the world on a platter and squandered it.

hank

[hank]

No, I just judge people equally and not based on skin color. Apparently thats going out of style.

If you think that's what you are doing then I just respectfully disagree.

You are like a little kid who wants to see his successful friend with a new bike crash because he doesn't have a new bike also. Its actually pretty funny, in a silly and juvenile kind of way.

hank

[Thor]

OMG!!!!, tape of Obama burps in church, and not saying excuse me, to to be released to the public!!!!! First off I have no intention of voting for this man, but I'm growing tired of all the "bombshells". Who the hell cares what his wife, pastor, mail man, or his dry cleaner says. I'm not voting for him because I don't agree with several of HIS stated policies. This is getting a bit ridiculous people, every time this guy farts, someone is posting a tape on the net, or claiming it's all part of some vast conspiracy. if your not going to vote for him, that's fine and dandy, but at least base your decision on what he actually does and says.
It's not about what he says and does, everyone knows that already, he's like a more eloquent and theatrical version of a used car salesman. It's about who he really is behind the facade that interests people.

But I'm not going to waste my breath on this. Like I said in a previous post, it's evident the democrats don't know how to win elections. They have already lost this one, and they don't even have a clue about it.

The cards are on the table and the strategic ramifications are in play. Compare it to the Eastern Front in 1941 when America enters the war; the war will go on, but for those who can see it there is no longer a question of the outcome

[AGE-Ranger]

If you think that's what you are doing then I just respectfully disagree.

You are like a little kid who wants to see his successful friend with a new bike crash because he doesn't have a new bike also. Its actually pretty funny, in a silly and juvenile kind of way.

hank


Thats actually not how I feel at all.

Tell yourself whatever you need to, but all you're doing is telling one group of people they have a special right to hate and demonize as some sort of payback for past wrongs. All it does is perpetuate the problem.

I actually think its pretty childish to blame all your problems on a single group of people, due to their shared skin color with one of many slave and hate cultures. The same culture fought and died for slaves and civil rights. You would have all white people carry the burden of humanity's atrocities?

Way to change the subject and paint Obama as the victim though.

[hank]

I just don't think he's qualified to be a leader during a time of war.

You may be right. But all this wife/preacher nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

I love how I get labelled an Obama supporter. I've voted for every Republican Pres since GHWB. Never voted for a Dem in my 37 years. But McCain is Bush light and I can't vote for that. If ya'll think that means I support Obama then cool. Been a registered Republican since I was 18 years old.

But don't tell me that this constant fear-mongering regarding Obama isn't funny. Because it is. Its very similar to the fear-mongering about Kennedy's catholicism.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

You may be right. But all this wife/preacher nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

I love how I get labelled an Obama supporter. I've voted for every Republican Pres since GHWB. Never voted for a Dem in my 37 years. But McCain is Bush light and I can't vote for that. If ya'll think that means I support Obama then cool. Been a registered Republican since I was 18 years old.

But don't tell me that this constant fear-mongering regarding Obama isn't funny. Because it is. Its very similar to the fear-mongering about Kennedy's catholicism.

hank

Except it was baseless and this isn't. Thats the reason everyone thinks you are an Obama supporter. You keep repeating the unbelievable party line. It isn't even about his religion, but the people he chooses to surround himself with.

[Skutatos]

Yes I would have a problem with that. Whites were not sold into slavery in this country. White men's right to vote wasn't steamrolled for 100 years. Etc., etc., etc. As a country we have treated African Americans terribly ans some are mad about it. I understand and expect that. So should you.

Whereas, what on earth does W have to be pissed about? He got the world on a platter and squandered it.

hank

Whites actually make up the majority of the slaves in history, and there actually were white slaves in North America, especially early on(usually criminals or those who owed debts, they were supposed to be released after a time but rarely were as owners would tack on more and more time for whatever reason). Also in the carribean there was a large number of white and native slaves being used on sugar plantations.

[hank]

Whites actually make up the majority of the slaves in history, and there actually were white slaves in North America, especially early on(usually criminals or those who owed debts, they were supposed to be released after a time but rarely were as owners would tack on more and more time for whatever reason). Also in the carribean there was a large number of white and native slaves being used on sugar plantations.

Are you seriously contending that the white slave experince in North America is on par with the African American slave experience? If so that is a novel approach.

hank

[gobdav]

You may be right. But all this wife/preacher nonsense is just that. Nonsense.



Nonsense or not, I don't want the leader of my country insulting me because I'm causasion.

[Afro-European]

Also in the carribean there was a large number of white and native slaves being used on sugar plantations.
By whom? (if i may jump in)

[Albatross]

You guys crack me up. At least when Obama gets elected you'll all have something to complain about for the next 8 years.

hank

That guy can't choose a normal pastor and you want me to trust him to appoint my secdef. G to the T to the F to the O. His wife is nuts, but all women are so can't really hold him to that.

[gobdav]

Are you seriously contending that the white slave experince in North America is on par with the African American slave experience? If so that is a novel approach.

hank


Are you contending that the black slave experience in North America is on par with the white slave experience throughout history?

[hank]

Nonsense or not, I don't want the leader of my country insulting me because I'm causasion.


Don't you mean his preacher? I'm not aware of Obama making the offensive statements.

That is what is crazy about this whole thing. We are talking about the man's pastor and when it was brought up Obama distanced himself from the statements.

I'm catholic and I certainly don't agree with some of their social positions. Am I responsible for them? Am I responsible for what the Catholic Church does? I sure hope not.

hank

[Skutatos]

Are you seriously contending that the white slave experince in North America is on par with the African American slave experience? If so that is a novel approach.

hank

Im saying their situation is not unique in history, most people who have been slaves in the past moved on.No black american today has ever suffered slavery. Sure they suffered the horrible treatment of a corrupt system, but slavery should be a mute issue, plenty of people died settling that one.

Though, I wonder how many know that there was actually a rather sizeable population of black slave owners. In New Orleans especially.

[The Balkan]

Seems like "associations matter" only for Obama, not anyone else these days.

[Skutatos]

By whom? (if i may jump in)

By the British and the Spanish mainly, and especially on the plantations around Port Royal.

[hank]

Are you contending that the black slave experience in North America is on par with the white slave experience throughout history?

I'll say flat out it was much much worse and more pervasive. And frankly I can't believe anyone would contend otherwise.

hank

[Albatross]

fear-mongering

This a phrase being throw about as if it were a stripper at a bachelor party. When did this come about, I think that Obama started using it during his campaign. Whatever. I think he is to junior and to far left to be president right now. McCain is going to walk away with this hands down, he is a middle of the road republican. We need to get united to get the country back on track, and he is capable of talking to both sides.

[gobdav]

Don't you mean his preacher? I'm not aware of Obama making the offensive statements.

That is what is crazy about this whole thing. We are talking about the man's pastor and when it was brought up Obama distanced himself from the statements.

I'm catholic and I certainly don't agree with some of their social positions. Am I responsible for them? Am I responsible for what the Catholic Church does? I sure hope not.

hank

No, I'm talking about this supposed tape of his wife spouting off "whitey" all the time, which is what this topic is about. If that's true, then what I said still holds up. I don't want the leader of my country insulting me because I'm caucasion. And don't say his wife doesn't speak for him. Any guy who is married will disagree with that lol :) If it's not real, or grossly exaggerated (sp?) then I can't argue that point.

[AGE-Ranger]

By whom? (if i may jump in)


http://archive.salon.com/books/it/2000/06/15/white_slaves/


The numbers are impossible, so far, to pin down, but some white bondage clearly occurred. In an era when human beings were the most valuable commodities available to thieves and slave traders, greed occasionally trumped the crucial myth that there was a strict dividing line between the races. And while there were instances of what appeared to onlookers as "purebred" whites being sold on auction blocks, those Anglo-Saxons were being sold as "blacks." One had to become physically or socially accepted as black to be legally sold into chattel slavery and enter into the full degradation of American bondage. As light-skinned blacks sometimes gained their freedom by "passing" as white, so did hapless Caucasians make the reverse journey -- proving that race and bondage were even more fluid concepts in antebellum America than we would like to believe. And the phenomenon was not restricted to the United States: The Barbary captivity narratives, recounted in Paul Michel Baepler's "White Slaves, African Masters," in which Europeans and some Americans described their brutal episodes of slavery in the courts of Algerian and Moroccan pashas, were wildly popular in the 1800s.Also found this in that article, which backs up my claim.


Writer and academic Shelby Steele took the news more calmly. "It doesn't surprise me," he said. "It makes the point that slavery as a compulsion of man is bigger even than race."

[Albatross]

Every race of people has been enslaved at some point in time. Can we move on?

[hank]

Im saying their situation is not unique in history, most people who have been slaves in the past moved on.No black american today has ever suffered slavery. Sure they suffered the horrible treatment of a corrupt system, but slavery should be a mute issue, plenty of people died settling that one.

Though, I wonder how many know that there was actually a rather sizeable population of black slave owners. In New Orleans especially.

Of course that statement is correct. But that totally discounts that this country continued to deny the right to vote, the access to social services, etc. for nearly 100 years after the end of slavery. That experience (perpetuated by state and to some extent federal government(s)) is unique and is largely the reason for the animosity IMO.

Its not like we all locked arms and worked together after the Eman Proc. State govts in the South worked like heck to deny blacks constitutional rights and other services provided to whites.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

Of course that statement is correct. But that totally discounts that this country continued to deny the right to vote, the access to social services, etc. for nearly 100 years after the end of slavery. That experience (perpetuated by state and to some extent federal government(s)) is unique and is largely the reason for the animosity IMO.

Its not like we all locked arms and worked together after the Eman Proc. State govts in the South worked like heck to deny blacks constitutional rights and other services provided to whites.

hank

Well, it should tell you something that they got those rights quicker in this country than they do in most African countries. The country wasn't right for what it did, but you cant in it down to a specific race and you have to give the same country for trying to fix things.

[hank]

Every race of people has been enslaved at some point in time. Can we move on?

I sure can. It seems to me that AGE and his guys are the ones who keep bringing it up. I mean is Obama talking about this? Cuz I don't see it. What I see is the Rushes and Hannitys of the world looking for any reason to talk about race so they can say Obama is playing the race card. Whenever they or their ilk find something and say it on TV or in print, AGE gets all excited and posts a bunch of links. That is the MO for this conversation around here anyway.

hank

[gobdav]

Of course that statement is correct. But that totally discounts that this country continued to deny the right to vote, the access to social services, etc. for nearly 100 years after the end of slavery. That experience (perpetuated by state and to some extent federal government(s)) is unique and is largely the reason for the animosity IMO.

Its not like we all locked arms and worked together after the Eman Proc. State govts in the South worked like heck to deny blacks constitutional rights and other services provided to whites.

hank

No doubt to that, but they now have all those rights you speak of. I understand some animosity, but then again, you can't keep beating a dead horse because it'll do no good.

[hank]

Well, it should tell you something that they got those rights quicker in this country than they do in most African countries. The country wasn't right for what it did, but you cant in it down to a specific race and you have to give the same country for trying to fix things.

That jibberish. State governments in this country actively supported the denial of constitutional rights to blacks. That is a long-established fact. What happened in the caribbean or africa can't change that. Some African Americans (especially ones raised in the 60's) are still pissed. Frankly if I was a 60 year old black man raised in the South, I'd still be pissed as well. Hence my feelings on this subject. Not because someone told me to feel that way.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

I sure can. It seems to me that AGE and his guys are the ones who keep bringing it up.

hank

Why do you keep blaming everyone else for Obama attending this church for 20 years? Are we all just supposed to ignore it? :roll:

[hank]

No doubt to that, but they now have all those rights you speak of. I understand some animosity, but then again, you can't keep beating a dead horse because it'll do no good.

Right, but don't confuse the order of the beating. What happens in this election is this. Obama tries not to talk about race. Then his preacher says some stuff that is racially charged. Conservative talk show hosts and bloggers sh*t themselves and cry that obama is playing the race card. How so? By not muzzling his preacher. On what authority could he do that. Is he responsible for that?

That is nonsensical. If Obama's platform was racially charged I'd be with you guys. But its not and never has been. If anything his platform tries too hard to sidestep the issue.

Its the right that wants to make this an issue, and then when they do they want to blame Obama. Nice trick. I ain't buying it.

hank

[gobdav]

Right, but don't confuse the order of the beating. What happens in this election is this. Obama tries not to talk about race. Then his preacher says some stuff that is racially charged. Conservative talk show hosts and bloggers sh*t themselves and cry that obama is playing the race card. How so? By not muzzling his preacher. On what authority could he do that. Is he responsible for that?

That is nonsensical. If Obama's platform was racially charged I'd be with you guys. But its not and never has been. If anything his platform tries too hard to sidestep the issue.

Its the right that wants to make this an issue, and then when they do they want to blame Obama. Nice trick. I ain't buying it.

hank


Would you still be saying the same thing if his wife were the one saying it? Just a hypothetical. I think the Rev. crap is just politicial...well..crap. But if his wife is saying stuff, then that changes things for me completely.

[hank]

Why do you keep blaming everyone else for Obama attending this church for 20 years? Are we all just supposed to ignore it? :roll:

What "blame" do you think is appropriate? Did the preacher clear his sermons with Obama? I hear stuff in the homily at my all-white North Atlanta catholic parrish that I really disagree with every Sunday. Isn't that the same? I picked my church because its near my house. Obama picked his because its influential etc. etc. What is different? Obama ha publicly said he doesn't agree with a lot of what is said. Isn't that normal? Whoe does agree with everything in a sermon?

hank

[hank]

Would you still be saying the same thing if his wife were the one saying it? Just a hypothetical. I think the Rev. crap is just politicial...well..crap. But if his wife is saying stuff, then that changes things for me completely.


I'll need to see the statement first. Hypotheticals are only as good as the assumptions they rest on and I'm not comfortable letting you dicate the assumptions at this point. If and when the statement comes out you can ask me again and I'll answer.

I'll say this as a married man. My wife is deeply catholic. I am not. She believes things (as a devout Catholic) that I just can't. So regardless of my politics I'm certainly understanding of wives and husbands not always being in agreement. With that in mind, I'll wait to see the bombshell you're about to nut over.

hank

[Thor]

I might also add that I think Hank's posts here do a good job in showing how a typical Democratic Obama supporter is perceived: obsessed, blindfolded, and really a bit out of touch with reality.


If it was about having the most devoted supporters, then Obama would win (or possibly Ron Paul).

[AGE-Ranger]

Yeah, I hope this actually materializes.

[gobdav]

I'll need to see the statement first. Hypotheticals are only as good as the assumptions they rest on and I'm not comfortable letting you dicate the assumptions at this point. If and when the statement comes out you can ask me again and I'll answer.

I'll say this as a married man. My wife is deeply catholic. I am not. She believes things (as a devout Catholic) that I just can't. So regardless of my politics I'm certainly understanding of wives and husbands not always being in agreement. With that in mind, I'll wait to see the bombshell you're about to nut over.

hank


lol, good reply, although I'm not really "nutting" over it. You're assuming that I am, which I, in turn, am not comfortable with ;)

[hank]

I might also add that I think Hank's posts here do a good job in showing how a typical Democratic Obama supporter is perceived: obsessed, blindfolded, and really a bit out of touch with reality.


If it was about having the most devoted supporters, then Obama would win (or possibly Ron Paul).

You guys crack me up. I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm a registered Republican who refuses to vote for McCain.

But I don't toe the talk-show conservative line so to you guys I am a liberal. Which is nonsense. I'm most properly characterized as a liberterian, fiscal conservative, social liberal, state's rights Republican who thinks for himself. Which of course means I have no political home and I fight all comers. Kind of like Jones County Mississippi in the Civil War.

hank

[hank]

lol, good reply, although I'm not really "nutting" over it. You're assuming that I am, which I, in turn, am not comfortable with ;)

The nutting part was directed at AGE - my bad. He's so excited about the bombshell I bet he's wearing a condom right now.

BTW I'm a UT alum who grew up in West Knoxville.

hank

[Afro-European]

http://archive.salon.com/books/it/2000/06/15/white_slaves/

Also found this in that article, which backs up my claim.

Much thanx for the link.I wish you could tone down a lil a bit your anti-Obama rhetoric.(No offense intended).

[Thor]

I'm most properly characterized as a liberterian
You consider yourself a libertarian and think Obama is a good choice? I would have agreed, if he indeed was running against Castro.

Obama is a left-wing radical by European standards, which says a lot

[Afro-European]

Yo Hank keep up the good job.:hug:

[hank]

You consider yourself a libertarian and think Obama is a good choice? I would have agreed, if he indeed was running against Castro.

Obama is a left-wing radical by European standards, which says a lot

Thor, is English your first language? Where I have I ever said Obama is a good choice? I said he was the lesser of all evils. Very different conceptually from good choice. And I'm not committed to voting for him yet. I probably will but I'm not certain yet. Really though, how could he be worse than Bush? He can't tax more or spend more and those are the big knocks against him (other than lack of experience which is not valid IMO).

hank

[hank]

Yo Hank keep up the good job.:hug:

Its not easy disagreeing with Rush, Hannity, and Fox News around here.

hank

[vryhpyammoadded]

We went from the best run country to the worst in 5 to 6 terms over forty eight years. You can make them Kick Scream, and Fart before the election, and I tell yah they will still win, simply because NO ONE will forget the melodramatic hysteria and hype over mistakes both real and perceived, sexed up by Bush’s opponents, worshiped by their mindless zombies the last 8 years.
Minor corrections above
Yep, I agree Obama will most likely win but because of the hype, melodrama, spin and pathological angst 12% +- 3% of the voting population have for his prepackaged, mass-marketed CHANGE™ pabulum. It really seems the rest of the voting population just isn’t as together with there own brand of mass CHANGE hysteria. So, yeh Obama’s machine really does have it together by comparison.

But, mostly I disagree with the simplistic American habit that being perceived as the most favored team to win gives some sort of mandate to shut the other teams out of the championship. We’re going to win so why bother with the competition. Or, shouting down the competing team’s fans as poor sports and pre-victory buzz killers.
The soul of the nation is at stake, our livelihood, and when you really listen close to what all three candidates have to say philosophically, if you can hear it, is that they all intend to rob yet another increment of everyone’s wealth and liberty to buy their constituents another term next game season. I do not like the mediocrity the three offer and reserve the right, as per the constitution, to be a pre and post victory buzz kill and will do so until the nation changes course, someone puts a bullet in my head or I die of old age.
I say dragging their lame ass, slick marketed con games out Kicking Screaming, and Farting under the microscope as being in fact both healthy and necessary for this country.

[Afro-European]

Its not easy disagreeing with Rush, Hannity, and Fox News around here.
hank
Indeed.Linking Obama with everything that his ex-pastor or guest-pastor of his ex-church says is just ludicrous.
Do those people really think that Obama hates whites? Himself being half-white,raised by a white mom in a white neighbourhood?

[Hollis]

Its not easy disagreeing with Rush, Hannity, and Fox News around here.

hank


Funny that are so-called specialists on all things conservative on this forum have not caught on the McCain is a very hard pill for conservatives to swallow. The amount of conservatives who will not vote for McCain is very high considering the Democrats running. There is much more frustration in the conservative camp than in the Democrats. Going to be a interesting next months. McCain biggest battle probably will not be the pro D supporters, but winning back conservatives to his side.

[hank]

Indeed.Linking Obama with everything that his ex-pastor or guest-pastor of his ex-church says is just lidicrous.
Do those people really think that Obama hates whites? Himself being half-white,raised by a white mom in a white neighbourhood?

Stop pointing out inconvenient facts. That doens't help with the fear-mongering. And while you're at it stop thinking for yourself. Whenever you feel like doing that you need simply to tune it to Rush (perhaps a podcast will help), Hannity, or Fox News and that will put an end to such whimsical thoughts.

hank

[hank]

Funny that are so-called specialists on all things conservative on this forum have not caught on the McCain is a very hard pill for conservatives to swallow. The amount of conservatives who will not vote for McCain is very high considering the Democrats running. There is much more frustration in the conservative camp than in the Democrats. Going to be a interesting next months. McCain biggest battle probably will not be the pro D supporters, but winning back conservatives to his side.

Exactly. McCain is about as conservative as Bush is. Perhaps even less so because he's so socially liberal. That is what drives me crazy about this election. Much or the Rush, Hannity, Fox News right (is neocon the correct term?) is so empowered to fight Obama that they fail to see that the Republican party is selling them Ted Kennedy with a mask on. I'll have none of it.

With the choices I have in front of me, abstention might be the best choice but I just can't bring myself to abstain. I am hard-wired to exercise my right to vote, even if I vote for someone I can't stand. I may vote for Barr or Paul (there you go Shocker) just to piss off the Pope.

hank

[duhblow7]

Odd timing. One would think you wait for the general or used it before the primaries are over. TPM i guess.

[Laworkerbee]

I might also add that I think Hank's posts here do a good job in showing how a typical Democratic Obama supporter is perceived: obsessed, blindfolded, and really a bit out of touch with reality.


If it was about having the most devoted supporters, then Obama would win (or possibly Ron Paul).

I'm no Democrat and I enjoy Hanks posts as they are just a tab more enlightened than the majority of posters in this or any other thread.

Rock on Hank.

[hank]

I'm no Democrat and I enjoy Hanks posts as they are just a tab more enlightened than the majority of posters in this or any other thread.

Rock on Hank.

Thanks B. I don't think Thor is very good with English. I had just said I don't support Obama and then he posted that. He either didn't read or didn't understand.

hank

[BloodDiamondPants]

Well, I can only speak for myself here, but I dislike him because he's black.














(Record Scratch!? No....NO PEOPLE. It's a joke; and YES, it IS a funny one! Laugh damn you; laugh! Stop taking life so seriously all the time! Timing is everything in comedy, and that was placed like a JDAM. Nah, the truth is, I hate him because he's a moron, that will bankrupt us with is nanny-state ideas. Plus, he'd try to take our guns away, which would mean I would have to die. better?)

[hank]

Well, I can only speak for myself here, but I dislike

That's all right. He doesn't like you becasue you are white.

hank

[Thor]

Thor, is English your first language?
No, so please go easy on me. The online translators can only do so much.


Where I have I ever said Obama is a good choice? I said he was the lesser of all evils.
I'd say you in fact come off as a fairly passionate Obama supporter.


And I'm not committed to voting for him yet.
There's plenty of time to sober up yet. p-)

I'm not really worried about the outcome, but I got to give it to Obama that he's an excellent speaker. It doesn't get much better than his speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

[hank]

I'd say you in fact come off as a fairly passionate Obama supporter.


Then I'd say you have reading and logic comprehension problems. Pointing out the logical fallacies in someone's arguments against X does not make you a supporter or X. Especially when you say "I do not support X."

Don't worry about it. Its moot anyway.

hank

[Albatross]

Indeed.Linking Obama with everything that his ex-pastor or guest-pastor of his ex-church says is just ludicrous.
Do those people really think that Obama hates whites? Himself being half-white,raised by a white mom in a white neighbourhood?


I think the argument here is that, if elected, he would be making cabinet decisions. Some, including myself, are having a hard time believing that he will make good decisions on those positions if he doesn't know his pastor is a whack job.


I have other reasons for not voting for him, taxes, defense spending, etc, etc........

[Laworkerbee]

No, so please go easy on me. The online translators can only do so much.

Lying Svensk! Your English is better than mine p-)

[Power_serj]

I bet it's a *** tape of Obama's wife with Bill Clinton.......or not.

[noname]

If Rove has this so-called tape it will be devastation to his chances of picking up swing voters. Because this election is already down to whoever can pickup the swing states. As it now stands barry will find that difficult. Therefore a nice bombshell like this alleged tape will be utter devastation to his aspirations of becoming president. I could see the obama campaign releasing it themselves after he seals up the nomination, but that will be one balsy move, as it could have a lasting impression on him. Most people have the ability to remember these things.

barry obama isn't popular on anything other than his fake image. Come November, the people who vote have a way of sorting this out. He has no record of anything substantial, except getting flagler $200K in earmarks.

As far a racism goes, the democrat party is the party of racists. Look at their record. Just don't let the rose-colored image that the liberal press shows, taint your view.

[Thor]

Lying Svensk! Your English is better than mine p-)
Thanks. Linguistic proficiency is essential when you at times lack in substance. p-)

[Afro-European]

Stop pointing out inconvenient facts. That doens't help with the fear-mongering. And while you're at it stop thinking for yourself. Whenever you feel like doing that you need simply to tune it to Rush (perhaps a podcast will help), Hannity, or Fox News and that will put an end to such whimsical thoughts.
hank
I just wanted to emphasize that Obama isn't(has never) been an anti-white as some people are trying to portray him as.

[ronnieraygun]

Funny that are so-called specialists on all things conservative on this forum have not caught on the McCain is a very hard pill for conservatives to swallow. The amount of conservatives who will not vote for McCain is very high considering the Democrats running. There is much more frustration in the conservative camp than in the Democrats. Going to be a interesting next months. McCain biggest battle probably will not be the pro D supporters, but winning back conservatives to his side.


Even watching 5 minutes of CNN will tell you that. You're right, though - it's odd that so many of the Limbaugh echo chamberists here failed to point that out. Off topic to be sure, but I would almost bet there will be a small group of conservatives who bolt in a big way, kinda like the more moderate Republicans did against Reagan in '80.

This is a telling thread - I'm not sure if anyone once said what the heck it was that was supposedly on this tape or whatever. No one ever really discussed it. But somehow, this all got derailed into a big talk about race. Either than means we can't seem to get past issues of race (which is a pretty artificial construct anyways) or some of you guys need to switch off the talk radio for a week.

[AGE-Ranger]

Exactly. McCain is about as conservative as Bush is. Perhaps even less so because he's so socially liberal. That is what drives me crazy about this election. Much or the Rush, Hannity, Fox News right (is neocon the correct term?) is so empowered to fight Obama that they fail to see that the Republican party is selling them Ted Kennedy with a mask on. I'll have none of it.



hank


Even watching 5 minutes of CNN will tell you that. You're right, though - it's odd that so many of the Limbaugh echo chamberists here failed to point that out. Off topic to be sure, but I would almost bet there will be a small group of conservatives who bolt in a big way, kinda like the more moderate Republicans did against Reagan in '80.
.


What are you two talking about? Both those people railed against McCain when we were in the primary process. Hannity and Limbaugh were going after him pretty furiously. Hell, Rush spent an hour today ranting about how Bush isn't a conservative. Any other accusations you want to pull from your arse?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AUYgNzXaAE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OG9RwQyn4L4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PWVPqnEnYZo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BBZ3UTf3F74

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Meh, I doubt conservatives will bolt. Not that they shouldn't, mind you...but it implies motion towards something. Where is there to go in this election? McCain is already as far to the right as one can get (and it ain't far). Politically, I can't stomach McCain, and even though I'll hate myself in the morning, I'll end up voting for him.

What I'm watching for here is a Democrat convention bloodbath of the likes of which we've never seen. My guess is that if there is some bombshell out there, the Clinton camp would have sat on it, only bringing it out after they had exhausted all other avenues for victory, and when Obama would not have enough time to deal with it before the convention. I guess we'll see, it should be interesting.

[Lambert58]

All I know is this: My wife and I are both retired military. We're now contractors, with advanced degrees. we make very decent $$, we damn well earned it, both of us sacrificing ~20+ years of "luxury" to get where we are; deployments, full time school, living way below our means.

We're prepping for 4 years of hell, stashing max amounts in 401ks to reduce our tax signature as much as possible. Over the last 8 years I've invested liberally, being happy to contribute what I can to our economy. Obama gets elected and I shut off every investment that isn't tax exempt.

We've discussed it and she'll stop working and I'll refuse promotions to avoid the abusive taxes this sonofabi**h will impose.

Obama won't get us to fund his hell. I'll fking flip burgers first.

[BloodDiamondPants]

If Obama wins, 401K should be the least of what you should be "stocking." LOL. He has a snowballs chance in hell; I'm not worried.

[Mackie]

I just don't think he's qualified to be a leader during a time of war.

You need a president, who can finance the war.
I heard 2 tings today about the USA:

- Hillary will quit the election race
- GM will close 4 further plants in the US.


The problem:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/Current_Account_Balances.gif

[Hollis]

Even watching 5 minutes of CNN will tell you that. You're right, though - it's odd that so many of the Limbaugh echo chamberists here failed to point that out. Off topic to be sure, but I would almost bet there will be a small group of conservatives who bolt in a big way, kinda like the more moderate Republicans did against Reagan in '80.

This is a telling thread - I'm not sure if anyone once said what the heck it was that was supposedly on this tape or whatever. No one ever really discussed it. But somehow, this all got derailed into a big talk about race. Either than means we can't seem to get past issues of race (which is a pretty artificial construct anyways) or some of you guys need to switch off the talk radio for a week.


All one needs to do is to listen to the staunch conservatives. There is a movement now, trying to improve McCain's imagine with them. The advantage the conservatives have always had over the liberals, is that when they bolt, it is very quite. D's just bleed each other very bad and in the open during the primaries.

[BloodDiamondPants]

Thank god for a huge Military and Nukes; the great equalizer.

[Lambert58]

If Obama wins, 401K should be the least of what you should be "stocking." LOL. He has a snowballs chance in hell; I'm not worried.

Oh. trust me. Plenty of .223/9mm/.40 ammo in the safe.

[Lambert58]

The problem with the US is that we see the world in 4 year incrments, when the world operates in 100 year or 1000 year increments. China kinda has it nailed.

[BloodDiamondPants]

Are you kidding me? China isn't anything. Sure, they have good facade up lately, but I've been to china. The majority of their military still wears fatigues from the Vietnam era, and thongs made from old tires. China is sill as backwards as they come. I'm tired of this propaganda fear. They can't feed their people, and most of those "skyscrapers" you see in pictures are made of cinder blocks; only the centerpiece buildings get steel. It's a farce man; don't buy the hype.

[Ordie]

Obama seals nomination; McCain eager for battle


Tuesday, June 3, 2008
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/06/03_t/mn-obama_2008_primary_0498554531_t.gif (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2008/06/03/politics/p125309D15.DTL&o=0&type=printable) http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/06/03_t/ba-clinton_0498554542_t.gif (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2008/06/03/politics/p125309D15.DTL&o=1&type=printable) http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/05/30_t/ed-letters02a_ph_498152125_t.gif (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2008/06/03/politics/p125309D15.DTL&o=2&type=printable)



(06-03) 17:06 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois sealed the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, a historic step toward his once-improbable goal of becoming the nation's first black president. A defeated Hillary Rodham Clinton maneuvered for the vice presidential spot on his fall ticket.
Obama's victory set up a five-month campaign with Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a race between a 46-year-old opponent of the Iraq War and a 71-year-old former Vietnam prisoner of war and staunch supporter of the current U.S. military mission.
McCain was plainly eager for the race to begin, and accused his younger rival of voting "to deny funds to the soldiers who have done a brilliant and brave job" in Iraq.
In remarks prepared for delivery in New Orleans, McCain agreed with Obama that the presidential race would focus on change. "But the choice is between the right change and the wrong change, between going forward and going backward," he added.
The newly minted Democratic nominee-in-waiting arranged an evening appearance in St. Paul, Minn., sending McCain an unmistakable message by claiming his victory in the very hall where the Arizonan will accept his party's nomination in early September.
Obama sealed his nomination, according to The Associated Press tally, based on primary elections, state Democratic caucuses and delegates' public declarations as well as support from 19 delegates and "superdelegates" who privately confirmed their intentions t/o the AP. It takes 2,118 delegates to clinch the nomination at the convention in Denver this summer, and Obama had 2,128 by the AP count.
Obama, a first-term senator who was virtually unknown on the national stage four years ago, defeated Clinton, the former first lady and one-time campaign front-runner, in a 17-month marathon for the Democratic nomination.
His victory had been widely assumed for weeks. But Clinton's declaration of interest in becoming his ticketmate was wholly unexpected.
She expressed it in a conference call with her state's congressional delegation after Rep. Nydia Velazquez, predicted Obama would have great difficulty winning the support of Hispanics and other voting blocs unless the former first lady was on the ticket.
"I am open to it" if it would help the party's prospects in November, Clinton replied, according to a participant who spoke on condition of anonymity because the call was private.
Obama's campaign had no public reaction to Clinton's comments, which raised anew the prospect of what many Democrats have called a "Dream Ticket" that would put a black man and a woman on the same ballot.
McCain's criticism of Obama referred to a vote last year in which the Illinois senator came out against legislation paying for the Iraq war because it did not include a timetable for withdrawing troops. At the time, Obama said the funding would give President Bush "a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path."
Obama previously had opposed a deadline for troop withdrawal, but shifted position under pressure from the Democratic Party's liberal wing as he maneuvered for support in advance of the primaries.
Tuesday's fast-paced developments unfolded as the long Democratic nominating struggle ended with primaries in Montana and South Dakota.
Only 31 delegates were at stake, the final few among the thousands that once drew Obama, Clinton and six other Democratic candidates into the campaign to replace Bush and become the nation's 44th president.
Clinton was in New York for an appearance before home-state supporters. Officials said she would concede Obama had the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, effectively ending her bid to be the nation's first female president.
The young Illinois senator's success amounted to a victory of hope over experience, earned across an enervating 56 primaries and caucuses that tested the political skills and human endurance of all involved.
Obama stood for hope, and change. Clinton was the candidate of experience, ready, she said, to serve in the Oval Office from Day One.
Together, they drew record turnouts in primary after primary — more than 34 million voters in all, independents and Republicans as well as Democrats.
Yet the race between a black man and a woman exposed deep racial and gender divisions within the party.
Obama drew strength from blacks, and from the younger, more liberal and wealthier voters in many states. Clinton was preferred by older, more downscale voters, and women, of course.
Obama's triumph was fashioned on prodigious fundraising, meticulous organizing and his theme of change aimed at an electorate opposed to the Iraq war and worried about the economy — all harnessed to his own gifts as an inspirational speaker.
With her husband's two White House terms as a backdrop, Clinton campaigned for months as the candidate of experience, a former first lady and second-term senator ready to be commander in chief.
But after a year on the campaign trail, Obama won the kickoff Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, and the freshman senator became a political phenomenon.
"We came together as Democrats, as Republicans and independents, to stand up and say we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come," he said that night of victory in Des Moines.
As the strongest female presidential candidate in history, Clinton drew large, enthusiastic audiences. Yet Obama's were bigger. One audience, in Dallas, famously cheered when he blew his nose on stage; a crowd of 75,000 turned out in Portland, Ore., the weekend before the state's May 20 primary.
The former first lady countered Obama's Iowa victory with an upset five days later in New Hampshire that set the stage for a campaign marathon as competitive as any in the past generation.
"Over the last week I listened to you, and in the process I found my own voice," she told supporters who had saved her candidacy from an early demise.
In defeat, Obama's aides concluded they had committed a cardinal sin of New Hampshire politics, forsaking small, intimate events in favor of speeches to large audiences inviting them to ratify Iowa's choice.
It was not a mistake they made again — which helped explain Obama's later outings to bowling alleys, backyard basketball courts and American Legion halls in the heartland.
Clinton conceded nothing, memorably knocking back a shot of Crown Royal whiskey at a bar in Indiana, recalling that her grandfather had taught her to use a shotgun, and driving in a pickup to a gas station in South Bend, Ind., to emphasize her support for a summertime suspension of the federal gasoline tax.
As other rivals fell away in winter, Obama and Clinton traded victories on Super Tuesday, the Feb. 5 series of primaries and caucuses across 21 states and American Samoa that once seemed likely to settle the nomination.
But Clinton had a problem that Obama exploited, and he scored a coup she could not answer.
Pressed for cash, the former first lady ran noncompetitive campaigns in several Super Tuesday caucus states, allowing her rival to run up his delegate totals.
At the same time, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., endorsed the young senator in terms that summoned memories of his slain brothers while seeking to turn the page on the Clinton era.
Merely by surviving Super Tuesday, Obama exceeded expectations. But he did more than survive, emerging with a lead in delegates that he never relinquished, and he proceeded to run off a string of 11 straight victories.
Clinton saved her candidacy once more with primary victories in Ohio and Texas on March 4, beginning a stretch in which she won in six of the next nine states on the calendar, as well as in Puerto Rico.
It was a strong run, providing glimpses of what might have been for the one-time front-runner.
Personality issues rose and receded through the campaign:
Clinton's husband, the former president, campaigned tirelessly for her but sometimes became an issue himself, to her detriment.
And Obama struggled to minimize the damage caused by the incendiary rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, an issue likely to be raised anew by Republicans in the fall campaign.
___
Associated Press Writers Nedra Pickler, Beth Fouhy and Devlin Barrett in Washington, Stephen Majors in Columbus, Ohio, Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., and Libby Quaid in Memphis, Tenn., contributed to this story

Source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/06/03/politics/p125309D15.DTL&type=printable

[I can't think of a name]

Are you ready for change ordie?

[Lambert58]

Are you kidding me? China isn't anything. Sure, they have good facade up lately, but I've been to china. The majority of their military still wears fatigues from the Vietnam era, and thongs made from old tires. China is sill as backwards as they come. I'm tired of this propaganda fear. They can't feed their people, and most of those "skyscrapers" you see in pictures are made of cinder blocks; only the centerpiece buildings get steel. It's a farce man; don't buy the hype.

You're kind of missing the point. I'm not a pro-china envoy. It's the fact that they don't see success or failure in short term increments.

[Ordie]

Are you ready for change ordie?

I've been ready since January 20, 2001.
(The day I bought a bottle of Dom Pérignon for the 44th president)

[I can't think of a name]

So Change, no matter what direction? That is what I find hilarious about the ambiguous term. It is like they are afraid to openly say what their change is.

[shocker1]

The End is near.........

[Rilence]

Be prepared for another politician who won't change anything. Alot are riding on some douche bag to make things all better. Nothing new. We're going downhill and no one can stop it, now.

[BloodDiamondPants]

American Ingenuity, and flat out rebellion to the ideas of rolling over and dying. It's not very popular with the media anymore, but I assure you, it's still omnipresent. China is just the "flavor of the month" I assure you. I've seen it with my own eyes. You're talking about a country where a Chinese General couldn't get a telecommunications locker opened on the roof of a building because the janitor had the key and it was his day off. The janitor told the General to "piss off" effectively and the culture accepts it. Believe me, unless you've been there; you just don't understand the Chinese mind. It's very alien to common sense. What you see in photographs is not the whole picture. It's a piss-poor picture in reality.

[vryhpyammoadded]

I'm going to have to predict SAME...

[AGE-Ranger]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-uAhg9Qg-Pc

[Power_serj]

I just wanted to emphasize that Obama isn't(has never) been an anti-white as some people are trying to portray him as.

You're right, but he seems to be more black than American. What I mean by that is that he will govern for blacks, not America.

[Ordie]

So Change, no matter what direction? That is what I find hilarious about the ambiguous term. It is like they are afraid to openly say what their change is.

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
-John F. Kennedy

Both are good men.

[T3ngu]

You're right, but he seems to be more black than American. What I mean by that is that he will govern for blacks, not America.

Wow, i love the succinctness of your posts.

[Tokamak]

Who do you prefer?

[shocker1]

Keep the Change


Obama is about as much a Kennedy as I am a illegal worker migrant from a newly discovered Amazon tribe.

[AGE-Ranger]

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
-John F. Kennedy

Both are good men.

How is returning to a Clintonian foreign policy change?

[Power_serj]

Before Obama could seal the nomination, let's wait for the bombshell.

[LRPV]

News on local radio...Hillary preparing thankyous to supporters and signalling a willingness to run as Obamas Vice President.

[ed316]

News on local radio...Hillary preparing thankyous to supporters and signalling a willingness to run as Obamas Vice President.


She will be the death of the Obama presidency ambitions.

[Lambert58]

I just wanted to emphasize that Obama isn't(has never) been an anti-white as some people are trying to portray him as.

his wife is.

[Rilence]

You're right, but he seems to be more black than American. What I mean by that is that he will govern for blacks, not America.
Wow. Thats an..........interesting point of you. Where do you get this idea from or is it just a hunch?

[shocker1]

You're right, but he seems to be more black than American. What I mean by that is that he will govern for blacks, not America.
Amongst a sea of old money white haired white men on the Hill? I doubt that.:)

[szr]

I know older democrats here in New York, who've line-voted Democrat their whole lives, who are absolutely fed-up (and even somewhat distressed) with Obama and the party for the way they feel the Obama camp and his followers inside the party have treated Hillary and Bill.

It's going to be fascinating to see how the chips fall in November if not before, at the convention.

[Lambert58]

Amongst a sea of old money white haired white men on the Hill? I doubt that.:)

On one hand I think your comment is vile... on the other I wonder how Obama got to where he is...

[shocker1]

I predict a McCain win, some riots, court cases, voter machine issues, ect....

[Kilgor]

Anything but hilderbeast

[shocker1]

On one hand I think your comment is vile... on the other I wonder how Obama got to where he is...
Why, thank you.

[Ordie]

How is returning to a Clintonian foreign policy change?

Please define?

[I can't think of a name]

Keep the Change


Obama is about as much a Kennedy as I am a illegal worker migrant from a newly discovered Amazon tribe.

McCain has more in common with Kennedy than Obama does

[Ordie]

McCain has more in common with Kennedy than Obama does

McCain is of that generation. Obama is a product of that generation.

The key for both canidates is restoring American domestic unity, international integrity and leadership in global sustainibility.

But most importantly is earning the people's respect both at home and abroad.

[Hilbert]

This means nothing, it never did; no matter which of the three stooges (although I guess it's safe to say two stooges now) wins the presidency we're still in for empty promises and yet another crappy presidency.

It's been said that only time conquers all, and I'm starting to believe it; over twenty years and we still can't get a damn nominee worth voting for.

-Hilde

[Firetxmi]

Obama is about as much a Kennedy as I am a illegal worker migrant from a newly discovered Amazon tribe.

I knew I saw you painted red in that G*d-damned picture! :D

[GeneralDisarray]

Source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/06/03/politics/p125309D15.DTL&type=printable

Sweet..so McCain is gonna be President then.

[Createdeemcee]

I predict a McCain win, some riots, court cases, voter machine issues, ect....


Mccains going to loose land slide, youre blind not to see. Cant do any worse than GB.

[Pigdog]

Don't you mean his preacher? I'm not aware of Obama making the offensive statements.

That is what is crazy about this whole thing. We are talking about the man's pastor and when it was brought up Obama distanced himself from the statements.

I'm catholic and I certainly don't agree with some of their social positions. Am I responsible for them? Am I responsible for what the Catholic Church does? I sure hope not.

hank

Let me see if I understand your position on the issue of guilt by association.

- OK, you think it's ridiculous for people to judge Obama based on the company he keeps.

- You hope that as a Catholic, you aren't responsible for the views of fellow Catholics or the church.

But at the same time you don't see anything wrong with black racism towards whites today because of history. Or is it just the blacks that were living prior to the civil rights movement that have "earned" a right to be bigots?

Just for the record, at this point I do favor Obama over McCain.

[BloodDiamondPants]

Hillary running as Vice for Obama actually does scare me a little. I'm telling you, it that happens, and they pull of a win; it will tear this country apart; and I mean in the Civil War 2 kind of way. Only instead of a regional tear, it will be neighborhood to neighborhood and neighbor to neighbor. Lets hope it's not true.

[noname]

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
-John F. Kennedy

Both are good men.


That is rich. Comparing barry to JFK. rofl

[plato]

I thought this thread on a Chinese forum was interesting (it just happened to be in English):
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/USANews/31092150.html

thread titled:"If you love China, go vote for McCain. "


If you love China, go vote for McCain.

The reason is simple: America deserves another Bush. If McCain wins,
everything will be the same, but China will have at least 4 more years to
catch up.

For any reason, Clinton should be encouraged to run as an independent.

Hurrah!

[BloodyTalon]

Mccains going to loose land slide, youre blind not to see. Cant do any worse than GB.
The current standing of the electoral collage says otherwise. This is not gonna be an easy win for Obama just because he is the first candidate in a general election that's several shades darker than our previous presidents and whose speeches basically boil down to him saying "CHANGE" a lot.

[Power_serj]

Honestly, McCain has a better chance of winning. Here's why....

Obama says a lot of dumb things, Obama is black (some people still aren't comfortable with a black man running the country), and Obama's bad history is slowly coming out. Obama has no substance. All we know is that he wants change. When he can't come up with anything better than that, he will quickly lose popularity. He says what he wants, but not how he will do it.

Although McCain is not a "true conservative", he is not partisan. The real reason Americans are not satisfied with Congress because we aren't getting results is because there is WAY to much partisanship in the White House. There needs to be negotiations between the parties, and McCain is known for that. Comparing McCain to Bush is a political ploy.

I don't even see how there is a contest between the two, just like a Danish (?) newspaper says something along the lines of, 'I don't see why the Americans are even having elections, they have a choice between a lawyer, a lawyer, or an American war hero who proudly served in the Armed Forces."

[IraGlacialis]

Anything but hilderbeast
Well there is a chance that it may become a Obama/Clinton ticket.

[The Balkan]

Billary has been defeated.

Now on to the albino frankenstein.

[WarriorMonk]

Honestly, McCain has a better chance of winning. Here's why....

Obama says a lot of dumb things, Obama is black (some people still aren't comfortable with a black man running the country), and Obama's bad history is slowly coming out. Obama has no substance. All we know is that he wants change. When he can't come up with anything better than that, he will quickly lose popularity. He says what he wants, but not how he will do it.


To play devil's advocate, maybe he's saving the big guns for McCain?

Both candidates have dirt on them from every nook and cranny of the world - like most politicians. It just appears that one seems to be closer to Bush than the other. Obama just seems to be playing himself as more malleable by the people than everyone else out there, a double-edged sword at best.

Go out on the streets and almost 9 out of 10 people you talk to will not like Bush and the Republicans for what he's done to this country for 8 years. People are desperate now, they equate the Iraq mess, economy, and gas prices mostly with the Republican presidency now, and are willing to vote for anything opposite the current moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Or you can vote for Bob Barr or Ralph Nader.

[Createdeemcee]

The current standing of the electoral collage says otherwise. This is not gonna be an easy win for Obama just because he is the first candidate in a general election that's several shades darker than our previous presidents and whose speeches basically boil down to him saying "CHANGE" a lot.


Has nothing to do with what shade he is, He's offering a different angle on whats going on with decisions made at the white house. Hey change can happen, you watched it 8 years ago when you were 12. Or cant you remember? There was a great economy, Health Care, white house and great dialougue with other SO yescountries of the world. Then there was Change. GW bush, changed it to Nothingness. So yes Change can happen!

[IraGlacialis]

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/*******_logo_94.png (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/*******/brand/SIG=pd7i95;_ylt=AvMGNXAfaZuSrubUGeIuGXcb.3QA/*http://www.*******.com)
Possible Democratic vice presidential candidates

(*******) - Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, who will claim the Democratic presidential nomination on Tuesday, has taken the first small step toward choosing a running mate.
Obama has asked Jim Johnson, former head of mortgage giant Fannie Mae, to begin research on potential candidates for the No. 2 slot on the ticket, media reports said. Johnson performed a similar task for Democratic presidential nominees John Kerry in 2004 and Walter Mondale in 1984.
Here is a list of some possible Democratic vice presidential candidates, in alphabetical order:
* Joseph Biden, 65 - The senator from Delaware, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is a respected foreign policy expert who would give Obama authority on the issue. But Obama might not want to add a second senator to the ticket, and could be looking for a fresher face to reinforce his message that this election is about change and the future.
* Wesley Clark, 63 - A retired Army general and former NATO commander who ran unsuccessfully for the presidential nomination in 2004, Clark is a supporter of Hillary Clinton who could help rally the party and provide a boost on national security issues. But he did not run a strong campaign in 2004 and he would be unlikely to generate much enthusiasm among party activists.
* Hillary Clinton, 60 - Polls have shown strong Democratic support for a "dream team" ticket of Obama and Clinton, his top rival for the nomination. Obama has not ruled out the option, which would help unify the party after a grueling nominating battle. But Clinton also would bring complications, including the return of former President Bill Clinton to the White House. A joint ticket could help attract some of Clinton's supporters -- including women and white working-class Democrats -- who have been reluctant to support Obama.
* Chris Dodd, 64 - The Connecticut senator, a fluent Spanish speaker and expert in Latin American issues, is the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee and a former foe for the presidential nomination who quickly endorsed Obama after dropping out. He would help bolster Obama's foreign policy and economic credentials, but presents many of the same drawbacks as Biden.
* Chuck Hagel, 61 - The Republican senator from Nebraska, a conservative Vietnam veteran but outspoken critic of the Iraq war, would help Obama reach out to independents and Republicans and reinforce his promise to bridge partisan divides.
* Tim Kaine, 50 - The Virginia governor was one of Obama's earliest and strongest supporters and could help him in a state that traditionally has been Republican in presidential elections but has been turning Democratic in recent years.
* Sam Nunn, 69 - The former Armed Services Committee chairman from Georgia is a respected foreign and military policy voice, but his age and conservative view on some social issues might make him an awkward fit with Obama.
* Ed Rendell, 64 - The Pennsylvania governor has been one of Clinton's strongest campaigners and he could help woo her supporters and help deliver a key state. A former district attorney and the mayor of Philadelphia, Rendell has executive experience that could help Obama.
* Bill Richardson, 60 - New Mexico governor, a Hispanic, could help with Latino vote -- the fastest-growing segment of the electorate and a potentially vital voting bloc. A seasoned negotiator, the former energy secretary and U.N. ambassador would also bring foreign policy experience to the ticket as well as inside knowledge of how Washington works.
* Kathleen Sebelius, 60 - Two-term governor of Kansas could bring some vital elements to the ticket: she's a woman and as the leader of a mostly Republican state has shown she can work across party lines. But she is largely untested on the national stage.
* Ted Strickland, 66 - The governor of Ohio is another strong Clinton supporter who comes from a battleground state. A former U.S. congressman, the first-term governor is not well-known nationally.
* Jim Webb, 62 - The first-term Virginia senator, Vietnam veteran and former secretary of the Navy has written seven novels, including "Fields of Fire," considered one of the best novels about the Vietnam War. Webb could help Obama in a state that has turned more Democratic in recent years.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080604/pl_nm/usa_politics_obama_vicepresident_dc

[vryhpyammoadded]

I’ll say again, for me it’s a simple choice. Obama and Clinton are both pushing tax hike plans that penalize the people terribly in return for little if anything. On top of this, the taxes they offer for the big producers will only trickle down to us consumers compounding the take home pay issue. Next they both endorse maintaining the federal nanny government’s massive, invasive, crushing weight on the economy. Sure they talk about moving money around and balanced budgets but I have yet to see what is needed, CUT’s in entitlement programs and the oppressive federal bureaucracy.

Ok, so they both promise to cut the DOD’s budget… LOL, talk about blowing one’s own foot off especially what with this passive/aggressive, cut throat, backstabbing world we’ve got today. Meanwhile…

Do I trust the RINO party not to tax/spend/grift my nation to death, no. They’ve clearly demonstrated to me these past few years that they are very capable of pretty much the same corrupt crap as the Dim’s, who wrote the manual on the past forty years of modern pork barrel spending by the way. The past 12 years have only proven to me that politicians will eventually lose their idealist nerve and cave into their constituency’s avarice for the federal revenue stream.

Which gets me to the point of all this, the constituencies. Both Obama and Clinton have clearly stated whose votes they intend to buy to attain the executive and to benefit this demographic with my hard earned and critically needed pay. I cannot stomach this and am forced, no matter how onerous or useless it seems, to cast my meager vote to the opposing side who promises to grift only a little less and in different ways.

Lambert58 said it right. I’ve also sacrificed 20+ years of so called “luxury” to get where I am. I too have lived well below my means without expensive toys, put up with deployments, etc… I’m also hiding “legally” everything I can and reducing my income/tax signature from the approaching locusts and deeply resent their intent. There are many like us and rubbing leftist salt in our wounds only pisses us off and makes us grow increasingly in number.

I swear, Aynn Rand was spot on. Atlas will shrug and the US will go down whimpering enslaved by SAME™ mediocrity.

[I can't think of a name]

http://animalnewyork.com/250_obamasmall-thumb.jpg

[SBL]

Has nothing to do with what shade he is, He's offering a different angle on whats going on with decisions made at the white house. Hey change can happen, you watched it 8 years ago when you were 12. Or cant you remember? There was a great economy, Health Care, white house and great dialougue with other SO yescountries of the world. Then there was Change. GW bush, changed it to Nothingness. So yes Change can happen!

What 'angle' does Obama offer?

[szr]

Billary has been defeated.

Now on to the albino frankenstein.Hey, look over there! <---> I think I see a Balkan thread that needs able-bodied posters to man the parapets, STAT!

[xav]

Is it an hoax?
http://www.chron.com/commons/persona.html?newspaperUserId=desperado&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3AdesperadoPost%3A22b7f3fe-24ad-4bc5-868c-b3798f622612

We will find out tomorow i guess :)

[ren0312]

I’ll say again, for me it’s a simple choice. Obama and Clinton are both pushing tax hike plans that penalize the people terribly in return for little if anything. On top of this, the taxes they offer for the big producers will only trickle down to us consumers compounding the take home pay issue. Next they both endorse maintaining the federal nanny government’s massive, invasive, crushing weight on the economy. Sure they talk about moving money around and balanced budgets but I have yet to see what is needed, CUT’s in entitlement programs and the oppressive federal bureaucracy.

Ok, so they both promise to cut the DOD’s budget… LOL, talk about blowing one’s own foot off especially what with this passive/aggressive, cut throat, backstabbing world we’ve got today. Meanwhile…

Do I trust the RINO party not to tax/spend/grift my nation to death, no. They’ve clearly demonstrated to me these past few years that they are very capable of pretty much the same corrupt crap as the Dim’s, who wrote the manual on the past forty years of modern pork barrel spending by the way. The past 12 years have only proven to me that politicians will eventually lose their idealist nerve and cave into their constituency’s avarice for the federal revenue stream.

Which gets me to the point of all this, the constituencies. Both Obama and Clinton have clearly stated whose votes they intend to buy to attain the executive and to benefit this demographic with my hard earned and critically needed pay. I cannot stomach this and am forced, no matter how onerous or useless it seems, to cast my meager vote to the opposing side who promises to grift only a little less and in different ways.

Lambert58 said it right. I’ve also sacrificed 20+ years of so called “luxury” to get where I am. I too have lived well below my means without expensive toys, put up with deployments, etc… I’m also hiding “legally” everything I can and reducing my income/tax signature from the approaching locusts and deeply resent their intent. There are many like us and rubbing leftist salt in our wounds only pisses us off and makes us grow increasingly in number.

I swear, Aynn Rand was spot on. Atlas will shrug and the US will go down whimpering enslaved by SAME™ mediocrity.

Well if its any comfort, the Nordic countries have 60+ per cent income tax rates for the uppermost income brackets(the income tax rate for the uppermost income bracket in Denmark is 63 per cent as far as I know), and a cradle to grave welfare system, and still have decent economic growth, i.e. above 2.5 per cent, and low unemployment, relatively equal wealth distribution, and a poverty rate that is close to 0%.

[JKD]

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/*******_logo_94.png (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/*******/brand/SIG=pd7i95;_ylt=AvMGNXAfaZuSrubUGeIuGXcb.3QA/*http://www.*******.com)
Possible Democratic vice presidential candidates


Hagel would certainly be an interesting choice. I like Richardson and Webb as well.

I hope he doesn't pick Clinton. I don't know if I could stomach voting for that ticket. Would probably just end up writing someone in in that case.

[GoSka37]

I am really happy right now.

[Ought Six]

I do not think that Obama hates Whites. But I do think his association with Wright is a problem. He did not just go to Wright's church for two decades. He had this preacher marry him to his wife and baptize his kids. If Obama can choose a preacher that espouses radical anti-American political crap like that, then it is not a stretch to say that he may well be tolerant to the same sort of crap when in office.

For me personally, it is a moot point. Obama has been rated the most liberal Senator in the Senate, taking that title away from John Kerry. He is a neosocialist, and far too inexperienced to be Prez. I think he would be another Jimmy Carter at best. I will not be voting for him.

[Bia]

McCain...

For
The
Win!

:P

[vryhpyammoadded]

Well if its any comfort, the Nordic countries have 60+ per cent income tax rates for the uppermost income brackets(the income tax rate for the uppermost income bracket in Denmark is 63 per cent as far as I know), and a cradle to grave welfare system, and still have decent economic growth, i.e. above 2.5 per cent, and low unemployment, relatively equal wealth distribution, and a poverty rate that is close to 0%.

Thats great news... for Denmark.
But, I just don't see Americans, corrupt as so many are, shoving there hands in other peoples pockets, telling others to smile and like it or else, converting so nicely to such a shiny happy world.
The kiddies with the votes, rather than play nice, have decided to go all passive agressive, dig in thier philosophical heals and fondle thier six guns hidden in thier pockets just waiting to cap the first person who twitches like he's going to take something.
I suspect that to run a government fairly over here will require ugly amounts of bloodshed what with the powers and thier death grips on the factional greed control. Note: that's a worry not a desire...

[vryhpyammoadded]

Sam Nunn, 69 - The former Armed Services Committee chairman from Georgia is a respected foreign and military policy voice, but his age and conservative view on some social issues might make him an awkward fit with Obama.

I know Sam and think he's about the only VP I could stomach but doubt he would take the job.

[szr]

^ Plus there're economies of scale at work. A model that works for a number of countries that are less populous than the City of New York may not translate well to a country with a population of several hundred million and a huge spectrum of social propinquities.

[epictetus]

This will be a very interesting election. And sorry to the ones who hate him but Obama will win. Unless Jesus runs as Mccain's veep that is!!!

[Mr.Flint]

What 'angle' does Obama offer?
Why the Carter number 2 'angle'.

[AmericanAirman]

Yes I would have a problem with that. Whites were not sold into slavery in this country. White men's right to vote wasn't steamrolled for 100 years. Etc., etc., etc. As a country we have treated African Americans terribly ans some are mad about it. I understand and expect that. So should you.

Whereas, what on earth does W have to be pissed about? He got the world on a platter and squandered it.

hank

My question is: When will it be enough? How much do we have to do until they stop crying? When will slavery stopped being used as a crutch; something none of the current Americans have ever experienced.

(They are more American then African-American - I hate that name. When can we please stop using title that automatically separate American people from one another?)

[AmericanAirman]

Go out on the streets and almost 9 out of 10 people you talk to will not like Bush and the Republicans for what he's done to this country for 8 years. People are desperate now, they equate the Iraq mess, economy, and gas prices mostly with the Republican presidency now, and are willing to vote for anything opposite the current moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.


Or you mean what the media tells them what happens? Not what Bush has done - but what has happened to him. We still get no credit for preventing major terrorist attacks since 9/11, and yes, there have been many attempts.

[Albatross]

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
-John F. Kennedy

Both are good men.


Kennedy was a crap president, whom got killed before he got things completely screwed up. (RIP, it is and always will be a tragedy)

[koalorka]

Well then, McCain it is. I love how the Democraps always end up choosing the guy who has no chance in hell.

[Firefly26]

You know, I actually warmed up to O last month, but now I think about it, and with all of the things he is saying, there is no way he can carry out the measures he speaks to appease the republicans and independents while remaining loyal to his party. He charmed me, but then I looked at where his roots are: in the liberal left. I don't think this man has the stomach for a military campaign, nor do I think he knows how to transition from a wartime economy to a peacetime one. I predict his use of force will be like Bill Clinton's or Carter's, where he withdraws when things get unpopular, undermining America's credibility as an unrelenting military force. He will react like Bill and send a T-lam or two into Pakistan to learn them extremists and call it a war. I think if he wins it, we are going to see his true colors, as we begin to embrace marxism/socialism. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a brilliant and charismatic guy, but I think his view of what should be is way too far from what is. The most unrealistic of the candidates.

[philbob]

I was reading were they were he was talking to a reporter on why he liked lincoln and he said the biggest reason was that he was inclusive and inclued the people who ran against him in his campaign so then the report immediatly went into who would or could get what postion in his cabinate....If OBama Really does want change he will offer the VP spot to McCain, or another Republican that would go along way to restoring the unity of this country but a smart man would bet against it becuase most likly he doesnt and all this 'change' talk is just rehtoric

[philbob]

Besides the Dems need to remember what goes around will come around this perioud of republican rule maybe comming to a close but if they think the republicans wont reievent themselves for the next decades they have another thing comming. Also most likly the Dem's will win the House and Executive branch in a landslide... so just wait till they get complacent and go forward with runaway legislation there is another election in 2010 the American people will do what they need to do to show the political elites who is in control

[Afro-European]

Now on to the albino frankenstein.
Obama an albino? B!tch please.

[muck]

By battling each other the Dems have jeopardized their chances to win, haven't they? This is the fourth presidential election I observe and I cannot remember one single time where the Republican candidate had absolutely nothing to do to be the favourite...

[larrystarling]

God Save America!!!!

[hank]

My question is: When will it be enough? How much do we have to do until they stop crying? When will slavery stopped being used as a crutch; something none of the current Americans have ever experienced.

(They are more American then African-American - I hate that name. When can we please stop using title that automatically separate American people from one another?)

They are like that. We have to watch them. They like to start trouble. They, them, they, them, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

They are like that. We have to watch them. They like to start trouble. They, them, they, them, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

hank

From the guy who thinks "white people" are eternally damned because of what humanity has done to each other throughout history. I hope someday you grow up and realize how misguided you were.

[Adux]

bOk,

So when is ol' USA becoming Socialist and becoming more so like Europre ? ....lol

Ayn Rand would be turning in her grave.

[Mackie]

bOk,

So when is ol' USA becoming Socialist and becoming more so like Europre ? ....lol

Ayn Rand would be turning in her grave.

I don't see "socialism" here. We called it wealth or western standards. p-)

[Thor]

If slavery was an option, I would buy as many as I could afford the down payment on.


Wait.... What?

[KB]

You guys crack me up. At least when Obama gets elected you'll all have something to complain about for the next 8 years.

hank

unlike the cakewalk we've had since 2000.

[Createdeemcee]

God Save America!!!!


Same thing I said when GW was elected again, But he never answered my prayer for help, he let him Jack our country anyway, oh well. It's a fine mess for anyone who win's. Even hillary would have mopped up mccain.


By battling each other the Dems have jeopardized their chances to win, haven't they? This is the fourth presidential election I observe and I cannot remember one single time where the Republican candidate had absolutely nothing to do to be the favourite...


What are you talking about, that motivated our party, we had two fine choices that stretched thier chances out to the limit to tackle the job of trying to fix the broke a$$ country. The democratic party was split on who we wanted because older folks wanted the great clinton era back. But now that there is a nominee he get ALL if not most of her votes. If you think McCain has a chance your on some good stuff, and fell off the turnip truck!

[Adux]

I don't see "socialism" here. We called it wealth or western standards. p-)

Make no doubt OBAMA, he is a socialist and marxist.

[Createdeemcee]

The soul of the nation is at stake, our livelihood, and when you really listen close to what all three candidates have to say philosophically, if you can hear it, is that they all intend to rob yet another increment of everyone’s wealth and liberty to buy their constituents another term next game season.


The soul was gone as soon as bush was elected for the 2nd time.