Malaysian State Separates Shopping Sexes

[Ordie]

Question to the Malays: is this a religious norm or a cultural norm adopted from the Middle East? If so, where do non Muslims fit in this picture if they represent 40% of the population?

From the supermarket prospective its probably cheaper to pay the fine than hire extra staff or logistics to segregate the sexes. They can pay the fine up front as a "tax".


Malaysian state separates shopping sexes
Tue Jan 22, 8:25 AM ET


Malaysia's only state run by the Islamic opposition party will get stricter about enforcing separate lines for men and women at supermarkets, an official said Tuesday.
Authorities in the northern state of Kelantan — governed by the opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party — will fine supermarkets and shops if they let men and women use the same lines at checkout counters, said party spokesman Anual Bakri Haron.
Chief Minister Nik Aziz Nik Mat has called for stricter enforcement "to safeguard the ladies" from being harassed and to avoid close proximity between opposite sexes while lining up to buy groceries, Anual said. "He wants the enforcement to be looked into thoroughly."
Kelantan is the only Malaysian state governed by the opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party. The rest are ruled by the National Front coalition, which is made up of various parties representing Malaysia's different ethnic groups.
The coalition is dominated by Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi's United Malays National Organization party, which draws its support from the ethnic Malay Muslims who account for 60 percent of the country's 27 million people.
The Islamic opposition party, which has ruled Kelantan for more than 17 years, imposed the separate lineup rule as part of its agenda to promote Islamic values. In recent years, however, people ignored the regulation, and there was little enforcement.


Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080122/ap_on_re_as/malaysia_gender_lines&printer=1;_ylt=Am3K6H1Gty6yx1Wj.s7_pdX9xg8F

[Warlord]

This is the Middle-East (Saudi Inlfuence) creeping in. Not all of Mid-East is like this. Even here in Saudi, we have no separate lines in the grocery tills. I could be sandwiched between two black clad ninjas and nobody would care. Not unless I make lewd gestures. Those guys are just paranoid.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This is wonderful fodder for any number of forbidden-love movies.



In a world where men and women must shop separately,
she knew it would take luck...and a little bit of outrageous indecency
to find the man of her dreams..

[cue song "The Glory of Love" - by Peter Cetera]

{shot: black-clad woman with grocery cart full of sausages, hot dogs, ****-shaped deodorant and hair-care products - cut to shot of man with cart full of taco shells, peaches, two cantaloupes sitting together in a tightly-fitting knit sack}

Their society told them it was improper for their items to co-mingle, but they're putting the "oral" back into morality.

{shot: foot-long ballpark frank "accidentally" sliding into taco shell on the check-out counter, then the two of them embrace}

Forbidden Grocery Store Love 2 - in theaters March 2008

[Eokboy]

Hmm probably election propaganda. I've been to Kelantan and do not remember any separate que lines. That said, I think it won't do much good anyway. To say this has a cultural or religious significance is stretching it. I consider myself more devout than the anglo-media definition of 'moderate' muslim but have no qualms with normal shopping lines.

If they do enforce it, Kelantan may have the world's first Tesco hypermart with segregated lines...

Even though the state is under Islamic party rule, most non-muslims enjoy living there while other government controlled states are demolishing their temples and even mosques. Non-muslims constitute 10% of Kelantan's population though. Only nightlife seekers would be disappointed but they can still enjoy toll-free highways.

Who wouldn't like toll-free highways?

[SOG]

This is wonderful fodder for any number of forbidden-love movies.

LOLOL, I missed you! I think you were gone...

[Ordie]

If they do enforce it, Kelantan may have the world's first Tesco hypermart with segregated lines...

Tesco could afford paying the fines. They'll probably generate the money to pay fine every two seconds worldwide.

[nullterm]

If only malls and Ikea would adopt similar practices. Would save alot of headache, waiting, and "No hun, it doesn't make you look fat."

[tyovan]

This could be a good idea - ever notice how women seem to have the compulsion to dig around in their purses for five minutes searching for exact change?

[TheBelgian]

Exactly, this it great, the men will get there shopping done in a fraction of the time. Progress, baby!

[chuckster]

I like this idea! It gives me an excuse to stay home while my wife goes shopping!

[ggk]

mmm the japanese have been doing this in their subway...so does the indian...i dont see why is this wrong? it just to protect woman from molesters thats all. What the heck is this has got to do with 'midle east cultural norm'?

eok boy, illegal temple, mosque, and even illegal outhouse will be demolished if built without proper drawing submission or built on other people land without permission. It is called progress.

[ggk]

any way what toll free highway? there were never a highway in the first place in that state.

[Kampfbaer]

I never heard anything about women being molested in a supermarket while waiting to pay.

[Ordie]

it just to protect woman from molesters thats all. What the heck is this has got to do with 'midle east cultural norm'?.

No it's gender aparthied.

Malaysia needs to make a choice whether or not its an Arab Middle Eastern Country or a Western Country.

[dava]

Uh.. Why exactly do they have to choose in the first place?

[Freedom-Fries]

Uh.. Why exactly do they have to choose in the first place?

this is why

http://www.historyofjihad.org/malaysia.html

and hijacker Khalid Almihdhar was known by the FBI to be traveling to an al-Qaeda meeting in Malaysia.

[Ordie]

Uh.. Why exactly do they have to choose in the first place?

Its either you're with us or against us.

No country can be really 'modern' without understanding what contributed to its development. Malaysia likes to see itself as modern country with tall towers, light rail, Starbucks and TESCO. But it chooses to adopt 6th century Middle Eastern culture and norms that is regressive and backwards.

Can't have it both ways.

[ggk]

I never heard anything about women being molested in a supermarket while waiting to pay.


you be surprise. It does happen

[ggk]

Its either you're with us or against us.

No country can be really 'modern' without understanding what contributed to its development. Malaysia likes to see itself as modern country with tall towers, light rail, Starbucks and TESCO. But it chooses to adopt 6th century Middle Eastern culture and norms that is regressive and backwards.

Can't have it both ways.


look i live here all my life....what you called '6th century Middle Eastern culture' is quite wrong. The first time Islam came into the malays kingdom of Terangganu around 1326 AD we already have a stable civilisation and our own rich and vibrant culture, we never actually fully adopted the middle eastern culture because it was never meant for us...the fact is malays still and very much clang on our own malay culture...and not the Arab.

Our culture have its own uniqueness and it is within our blood for hundreds of years. It is unfair to say that just because it doesnt suite the "american way of life" it is wrong.

[Ordie]

the fact is malays still and very much clang on our own malay culture...and not the Arab.

Two things are going on in Malaysia.

1) The new pre-eminence of Islam in public life. Promoting Muslim values and norms, and increasing links to other Muslim countries including the Middle East. This includes no-visa requirements for other Muslim countries and the adoption of Shiria law.

2) The promotion of "Malay First" policies that allows ethinic Malays high positions in government, education, and jobs regardless of merit.

Given these two paradigms, where is room for the of non-Malay / non-Muslims in modern day Malaysia? (40% of the Malaysian population). Are they considered 2nd Class citizens?

[Rictor]

This is the Middle-East (Saudi Inlfuence) creeping in. Not all of Mid-East is like this. Even here in Saudi, we have no separate lines in the grocery tills. I could be sandwiched between two black clad ninjas and nobody would care. Not unless I make lewd gestures. Those guys are just paranoid.

Considering the extensive arsenal I suspect they have under there, making lewd comments would likely end badly for you.

[Flamming_Python]

Its either you're with us or against us.

No country can be really 'modern' without understanding what contributed to its development. Malaysia likes to see itself as modern country with tall towers, light rail, Starbucks and TESCO. But it chooses to adopt 6th century Middle Eastern culture and norms that is regressive and backwards.

Can't have it both ways.

Well they quite clearly are... somehow their model of development seems to be working despite the supposed contradictions.

[Ordie]

Well they quite clearly are... somehow their model of development seems to be working despite the supposed contradictions.

It's all cosmetics, no substance and its a pissing match with Singapore.

[Eokboy]

Two things are going on in Malaysia.

1) The new pre-eminence of Islam in public life. Promoting Muslim values and norms, and increasing links to other Muslim countries including the Middle East. This includes no-visa requirements for other Muslim countries and the adoption of Shiria law.

2) The promotion of "Malay First" policies that allows ethinic Malays high positions in government, education, and jobs regardless of merit.

Given these two paradigms, where is room for the of non-Malay / non-Muslims in modern day Malaysia? (40% of the Malaysian population). Are they considered 2nd Class citizens?
1) Well, 60% of the population is muslim. Are you saying we should abandon our values and legal system so the non-muslims can have this feel good factor, even though they are not or should not be subjected to Syariah? Are we compelled to do so for the sake of avoiding negative stereotypes? While I am wary of our government's ability to balance it out and not turn this place into Saudi Arabia, I do not see why we have no right to adopt an Islamic way of life and be like Turkey. You are free to throw around labels and such, but our electorate decides our way of life, not outsiders. If 60% of them favors Islamisation, that is what they will get. Democracy. Unfortunate for the non-muslims maybe, but I myself will fight for their freedom to worship and earn a living.

2) These unjust policies are what we aim to abolish by bringing the real Islam into the picture. Most still hold on to it due to ego and delusions of malay hegemony, but a growing number of malays themselves are seeking an end to it after realizing how it contradicts Islam. There is no other powerful motivator.

I have many non-malay friends and cannot bear to view them as 2nd class citizens. However this is how the current ruling party and uneducated malay extremists treat them. At the same time the ruling UMNO party puts on a hard-line Islamic facade to counter the influence of PAS. Also note that PAS has a non-muslim supporters club and they look set to garner a significant amount of votes from the 40% this time around.

[Eokboy]

Excerpt:


One thing that all Malays must remember, you cannot be a good Muslim yet uphold the aspiration of the NEP at the same time, as both run contra to each other. Islam is about justice, as what Anwar said above -- and synonymous with the name of Parti Keadilan Rakyat (Peoples’ Justice Party). In Islam, justice is paramount and anything that violates this tenet goes against the very fundamentals of the religion.

And the NEP goes by the concept of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Islam does not allow one race to get ahead by denying another race what is due to them. What is due to them is due to them and Islam would go to great pains to protect their right to this.


Full article: http://www.malaysia-today.net/loonyMY/2005_08_09_MT_loonyMY_archive.htm

[Ordie]

The ultimate goal for any democracy is to protect the minority from the majority.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

These unjust policies are what we aim to abolish by bringing the real Islam into the picture.

Well the mechanics of democracy are one thing - but basing the justification for national policy on a religious book is quite another. I find that a crippling impediment to human development, no matter how benevolent that dogma may be. While it's true that even the values of the West can be sourced to religious texts, we no longer look to those texts as the basis for our laws - we have developed a social morality that exists outside of religion. I just don't think basing policy on the "real" anything is a good idea, since the "real" anything will change depending upon who you ask.

[deli_dumrul]

While I am wary of our government's ability to balance it out and not turn this place into Saudi Arabia, I do not see why we have no right to adopt an Islamic way of life and be like Turkey.


As a result of what is going on in my country, Turkish press is particularly interested in Malaysia. A question, do you guys have an entity in Malaysia to protect the democratic system if things go awry?

[Eokboy]

The ultimate goal for any democracy is to protect the minority from the majority.
True. The non-malay MPs from MCA and MIC which forms the ruling coalition are pretty much restrained by UMNO. The fact remains that non-malays are kingmakers in elections; UMNO will lose malay votes this time around. It is up to the non-malay voters. We'll see if scare tactics and racial propaganda by the ruling party shakes them.

The non-malays are already tired of the supposedly secular government. They would rather vote opposition even if it means voting for an Islamist party.

Well the mechanics of democracy are one thing - but basing the justification for national policy on a religious book is quite another. I find that a crippling impediment to human development, no matter how benevolent that dogma may be. While it's true that even the values of the West can be sourced to religious texts, we no longer look to those texts as the basis for our laws - we have developed a social morality that exists outside of religion. I just don't think basing policy on the "real" anything is a good idea, since the "real" anything will change depending upon who you ask.
The majority of voters are simple rural folks who hold dearly to Islam. The simplest way to elicit change for the better is to use religion. The goal is to convince them that meritocracy is sorely needed. I cannot think of any other way.

As a result of what is going on in my country, Turkish press is particularly interested in Malaysia. A question, do you guys have an entity in Malaysia to protect the democratic system if things go awry?
We have influential monarchs, some who are bold enough to voice their opinions on the current system. The military is loyal to the monarchs and are politics-free.

There is no risk of coup by radicals in the presence of these 9 Sultans. And if one sultan is ambitious, he will have 8 other sultans to contend with.

[ggk]

eokboy i think you and me are from different camp, but some of your opinion have merit. I respect that.

[Eokboy]

eokboy i think you and me are from different camp, but some of your opinion have merit. I respect that.
It doesn't matter as long as you have the country's best interest in mind. Many don't and they are everywhere, even in the opposition.

[ggk]

It doesn't matter as long as you have the country's best interest in mind. Many don't and they are everywhere, even in the opposition.

that is what i do.
but my aim is to cleanup the country name from any baseless myth...by un informed people..... i have no party bias when doing this.

[Eokboy]

It doesn't matter as long as you have the country's best interest in mind. Many don't and they are everywhere, even in the opposition.


that is what i do.
but my aim is to cleanup the country name from any baseless myth...by un informed people..... i have no party bias when doing this.
Oh, we're starting to sound like North Koreans, school textbook characters and North Korean school textbook characters...

[ggk]

lol,
what i meant is there are people outhe that think we malaysian still live on trees (no joke i ve seen one or two)...and i think its my responsibility to correct that....but i wont comment on politic issue though.