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SMGLee
12-07-2007, 06:39 PM
PWS-Primary Weapons Systems

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-011dotjpg
this sytem interest me in several reasons. one, it is low profile enough to be compatible with some rail system right off the bat. the excellent Daniel Defense system is one of them. no modification are required to the rail.

the system are front loading so you can retrive all piston components for cleaning without removing the rail.

the gas adjustment in the front offer a few positions that can be used in various operaion requirement. you can shut off the gas and turn this into a bolt gun for covert sniping.

the system is high quality with a reasonable price, with the DD rail, this conversion is approximate 300.00 or more less then the competition.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-012dotjpg

the stainless gas knob will be finished in production version to be less refective.


http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-013dotjpg

the bleed off or the gas vents are behind the gas regulator. as you can see from some of the vent holes on the rail system, the gas regulator is working quit well.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-014dotjpg
The breakdown view of the gas piston assembly.

the gas key are modified direct gas key with a embedded stake inside to keep it from breaking apart from the punishing piston strikes.

the long rod are inside a protective tubing which has some vent holes underneath to help clear any dirt or grind.


POF-Patriot Ordnance Factory
AKA: Bushmaster, and DS Arms

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-059dotjpg
We move right along over to the POF booth, the other civilian available piston manufacture. being this their home base, POF had a very large presence at the SAR show.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-058dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-057dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-055dotjpg
POF's piston breakdown view

LWRC-Land Warfare Resource Corp.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-008dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-024dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-008dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-028dotjpg

HK

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/NTOA-122dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/NTOA-117dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss2007/huge/AAC003dotjpg

Colt 1020
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/shotshow2006/huge/SS06-003dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/shotshow2006/huge/SS06-007dotjpg

SMGLee
12-07-2007, 06:42 PM
I have not shot the PWS nor much with the POF, but I do have extensive trigger time on 416 and the LWRC

As far as the limited time on the POF, I find the gun has a very well developed timing and balance. Only disappointing thing is the tall rail system. I keep looking forward to the low profile version, but POF is so busy with the current projects, they just don't have time.

POF systems are well made and it seems to be very reliable. During a past Bortec show, they had their gun running all week under sand and winds while other guns seem to have spotty performance.

PRO: reliability, ease of maintained
CON: rail system

LWRC:
I have had this LWRC upper that they send me for about a year plus. I have not cleaned it, and usually just a light coat of lube and it is off running. It did cough up a few Wolf ammo, but I am leaning more on the bad ammo side, then it was the gun's fault.

The standard h buffer and spring just don't do the gun justice. I upgraded to the heaviest 9mm buffer and also an up rated spring, it tames the recoil a bit and lean turn the gun more like a HK 416. Without it, the recoil impulse is flat and seems straight back but a bit heavier hitting then a DI gun. With the upgraded buffer, it is almost as smooth as a 416. I wonder what a 416 buffer assembly would do for this gun.

The gun was assembled and shipped to me with my LMT upper, the upper and the barrel was overlapped so I have to adjust it a little to get it function 100%, other than that the gun has been spotless.

PRO: reliability, easy maintenance, standard rail profile, light weight,
CON: more recoil.

HK 416
Nothing more I can say, it is smooth, and butter smooth and recoil felt are almost non-existent. It is fairly accurate, as accurate as any DI I have every shot except for the LMT MRP...interesting when the MRP piston surface at Shot 08.

PRO: the best piston gun on the market, reliable, ease4 maintenance, and thoroughly developed engineering piece.
CON: high price and unavailable to civilian....This might change by 2008 with Wilcox.

PWS, I am sending an upper to them for conversion.
From what is told to me, this system will be on par with the rest of the field and it will be more competitively price. You will get a Ferrari at a corvette price. I am definitely looking forward to running it side by side with the 416 and the LWRC.

I want to stress this is only my opinion, someother's might vary. in the end, i am still a DI gas gun man... I can only see the piston as a speicalized segment product for those that goes in harms way that require the ultimate reliable hadji killing system. guys with CQB-R and suppressors should most welcome this trend.

scuba
12-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Does only the PWS system have the ability to regulate and control the gas flow? Is it similar to the SA80, normal, extreme and off?

ZoneOne
12-07-2007, 08:51 PM
Thanks for taking your time to not only give feedback, but to also take the pictures.

bshnt2015
12-08-2007, 10:57 AM
Good review. Any trigger time with the Colt 1020? Like you I have shot the LWRC and POF. I like both and would like to see the HK and Colt more available on the open market. I am waiting to see the Magpul Masada and look forward in getting some trigger time on it this spring. Happy Holidays.

wiking
12-08-2007, 01:20 PM
Hoping the civilian HK416 makes it to Norway sometime in the next few years, hoping to get it for IPSC rifle.

JVeld
12-08-2007, 03:09 PM
Thanks for the review Chen, is awesome and great pics as well !
I have a LWRC upper and is flawless so far.....they are about 20 mins from me, I had the chance to go in their factory and those guys are awesome...
as for the HK 416, I see the uppers being sold to civilians now, I had the chance to purchase one last month at a gun show but I passed ( they wanted $4,500 for it) looks great but a too pricey for me.
and like you, I am also a gas gun man.

Kilo1-1
12-08-2007, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the quick guide SMGLee.

Sarge133
12-10-2007, 02:15 PM
I too hope the HK416 becomes available here in the states. I have about $10,000 sitting in the bank ready for them to come out.

SMGLee
12-10-2007, 02:50 PM
I too hope the HK416 becomes available here in the states. I have about $10,000 sitting in the bank ready for them to come out.


u got 10k, i will sell you one right now...:)

Hollis
12-10-2007, 03:05 PM
Have you ever looked at the Daewoo DR-200 Gas piston system? For some reason it is banned from import to the US, what I heard.

I'll take photos of mine later, with pistol assy.

SMGLee
12-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Good review. Any trigger time with the Colt 1020? Like you I have shot the LWRC and POF. I like both and would like to see the HK and Colt more available on the open market. I am waiting to see the Magpul Masada and look forward in getting some trigger time on it this spring. Happy Holidays.


I would be surprised if Masada make it to production by the end of next year. They have a long raod ahead of them, but I wish them the best since I would love to get one for myself.

Here is something you can think about. When HK initially developed the 416, they had some very serious problems. especially wiht the carrier rocking and scraping the receiver and damaging it.

this is all because when stoner designed the system, the way the gas tube are designed, the length it protrude inside the upper and the weight of the carrier are blalanced for the carrier to move backward in a linear motion. so once the gun is fired, the bolt carrier travel straight back.

now you add in the piston, this addition distruppted the balance, therefor, the bolt carrier was tipping. as it tips, it is damaging the receiver and making gun very inaccurate.

HK did a few fix.. the added the enlarged area in the back of the carrier and thicken the barrel dia. this practice although as a quick fix, but not the final solution. but somehow HK figured out the balance and you have the 416 you see today. no more enlarged area in the back of the carrier and a thinner profile barrel are supposed to be offered. HK also resolved the various suppressor issues without having to resort to a dajustable gas regulator. withlout a regulator, some suppressor will work and some won't, this is just the nature of things.

since the piston is pushing the carrier right on the key, it is causing it to tip. LWRC resolved the issue or some of it by using the old HK trick.. add weight to the carrier, but not sure if they have the engineering man power to do all the final development in order to make sure the system is functioning as it was designed. besides, i always had a recoil problem with the LWRC, i have been doing a lot of research on the buffer weight and spring rate in order to make the LWRC shoot as smooth as the 416. so far, with 9mm buffer and a wolf extra power buffer spring, my LWRC is approaching the smoothness of the 416.

the POF use the same piston storke design with some variations. it is also tipping the carrier at the gas key area. I have not shot the POF much, nor have I had the chance to further study the POF, so no comment on it.

HK some how resolved the issue. PWS thought about this and designed a long piston attached to the carrier with a short storke concept, which balanced the carrier movement without having to resort to a redesinged carrier. FN SCAR also use a similiar concept to keep the carrier from tipping. so does the Masada.

I think I am talking way too much.....

SMGLee
12-10-2007, 03:13 PM
Have you ever looked at the Daewoo DR-200 Gas piston system? For some reason it is banned from import to the US, what I heard.

I'll take photos of mine later, with pistol assy.


Daewoo is a great gun, it is basically an AK gas system.

try to find a spare bolt. lots of Daewoo bolt cracking...

Please add to the thread, we will make a gas piston study out of this thread.

Hollis
12-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Two gas piston ARs,

Daewoo DR-200 and Armalite AR 180. The DR-200 is from the early 90's. The AR 180 is from the mid '60's

Top is the DR-200, Bottom is the AR 180.

Small note on the AR 180 bolt assy, the spring assy is upside down, my mistake.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/ARDRdotjpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/ArDR2dotjpg

Sarge133
12-10-2007, 05:43 PM
u got 10k, i will sell you one right now...:)

Wait...how? I thought HK416s where unable to be had for civilians.

SMGLee
12-10-2007, 08:56 PM
you can not have a full auto HK 416 no matter how much money you have, unless you are a class 3 dealer in your state.

this is unless HK decide to make a 416 semi for civilina, which will most likely happen by the enbd of next year.

however, you can have a HK 416 upper package right now and install it on any AR lower of your choice as long as it does not violate any of your local or state law.

TigerStripe
12-21-2007, 02:27 AM
Chen,

How was the recoil on the LWRC with the special 9mm buffer and spring compared to a POF or a DI gun with a standard or H buffer?


TIA,


TS



BTW: Great write up!

SMGLee
01-25-2008, 01:49 PM
I am not sure if this is approved by the admins, but I have always had access to all the pictures taken of MSTN's customer guns, some of the customers are like you and I, normal every day law abidding citizens, and a lot of MSTN's business comes from PMC, spec ops and some soldiers just wanting a little better equipments.

Taking a M16 platform weapon to MSTN is almost like taking your Porsche to TechArt, your Benz to Brabus or your BMW to Dinan. you get the idea, high performance tuner shop of the gun world.

By no means any pictures posted here are a plug for MSTN, you will find this exact equipment at any other on line accessory shop or your local shop, i just figure since Wes Grant get the latest and the greatest, i want to share with the crew here at MP.net. besides MSTN's pictures, i will upload some of the stuff that comes my way also.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0010_9dotjpg
Another view, this platform is build with a SS Noveske polygonal match barrel, the Young Mfg carrier has been ion bonded for durability and logivity.

If Mods think this is a plug, please remove the thread.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0004_10dotjpg
This thread will start life with a KAC URX equipped carbine.
This carbine utilize a billet upper receiver by LaRue and MSTN always favor the Young Manufacturing Bolt carriers. I always find the Young Mfg carriers to be one of the top grade item, a good upgrade for your AR if you got the cash. and as far as the billet uppers, Wes built a lot of precision AR upper for customers, some times you just find mil-spec upper rails are not cut as well nor it has the correct alignment to properly mount a optic for long range fighting. hence the billet upper, both LaRue and Vltor make their version of the billet uppers. The LaRue upper has a very traditional look and the Vltor upper you will see later has the edgier transformer look.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0006_13dotjpg
taking this closer, You get to see the interface of the URX to the receiver, the barrel is ocked in via the handguard, the handguard act as a barrel nut, once you reach the end of the threads, you take a reverse thread locking nut that bit into the rail handguard and lock everything into place, this URX is not a home builder's best friend. it require special tools to get the rails lined up and more tools to torque in the reverse lock nut.

Also in this picture is a nice shot of the Trijicon TA31ECOS, this is the winner of the USSOCOM block2 contract. TA31 with a cross hair reticle, the very nice BAC fiber optic aiming system, build in ghost ring kind of like the old TA01NSN and also a peggy back doctor optic all this mount to a ARMS throw lever mount. at 1800.00 retial, it is a do it all in your face kind of optic.

a Troy flip up rear sight round out the package. along with a PRI Gas buster charging handle. a must for any serious carbine fanatic.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0003_11dotjpg
Basically the same set up with the more futuristic Vltor billet upper mate to a more tradional LaRue free float rail.

Notice the modular brass deflector/forward assist. you can have the option of both or just the brass deflector.

the trigger is a very nice giselle trigger, Giselle basically felt they could make a better trigger then the KAC match, so this is the result. I personally think Giselle is the best AR trigger bar none. but expensive on par with KAC trigger.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0001_8dotjpg
this is a full view, the short barrel is mate with the Noveske muzzle brake.
notice the extended top rail section for sight placement, this is done to extend the sight radius and also to give more rail spaces in order to mount other optical or aiming devices.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0007_10dotjpg

this is a Vltor monolithic upper called the VIS, it is not a true monolithic rail platform like the LMT MRP which is machine out of a solid piece of aluminum, Vltor did it with two piece which are salt brazed together to form a solid mono rail, once the rail comes out of brazing, it is re-heat treated to regain the strength.

this is a great picture, becasue it has about every you need on a carbine. free float monolithic rail system, ACOG TA31ECOs, KAC thermal, AN-PEQ2 IR laser, and a Surefire can to round off the package... make me drool.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0009_11dotjpg
a more close up of the package with a Surefire Scout and a IR filter. this Scout has a 6P lamp assembly converter. I have been playing with a Surefire Scout with the 6P lamp converter running a 200lumens CREE LED bulb. It is a small package with a impressive throw. 200lumens is too much for in doors, but it sure beat any of the older Surefire M96x series perimeter monester light.


I get phtot updates maybe once every other week. If Mods permit, I will keep up with the latest from the M16 after market components.

Icarus1
01-25-2008, 02:17 PM
Nice, very nice what you can do to the AR15. You should also check www.oberlandarms.de if you like AR15 and tuning. They have some nice variations. Oberlandarms is considered as the best AR15 license production in Europe (afaik).

California Joe
01-25-2008, 02:21 PM
No worries from me Chen. I like the purty pictures. :)

MetroN
01-25-2008, 02:26 PM
Wow, that's a nice looking weapon you got there. :D

StukaJr
01-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Trunk Monkey approved!

Very "nice" pics! p-)

orionhawk
01-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Taking a M16 platform weapon to MSTN is almost like taking your Porsche to TechArt, your Benz to Brabus or your BMW to Dinan. you get the idea, high performance tuner shop of the gun world.
Corvette to Lingenfelter, or Viper to Hennessy?

Very nice rifles. Wish I had anything like that kind of money.

California Joe
01-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Mustang to Carrol Shelby? :)

What, I wanted to post a car analogy too.

orionhawk
01-25-2008, 02:35 PM
I was just trying to make sure I understood the car analogy. I don' know nuthin' 'bout them Euro-cars.


btw, about how much would one be talking about on top of, say, an unmodified Bushmaster, for such a setup?

TacoDelRio
01-25-2008, 03:25 PM
Nice rifles, Chen. Customers must be happy.

Great idea for a thread!

Hollis
01-25-2008, 03:48 PM
No worries from me Chen. I like the purty pictures. :)


Me two, really good photos.

ZoneOne
01-25-2008, 03:50 PM
::Looks at own rifle::

"Why don't you look as pretty... you B***H"

SupportTheTroops_5
01-25-2008, 03:52 PM
wow :O thats some high quality hardware. Id love to get my hands on one of those

Paulinski
01-25-2008, 03:54 PM
Wes is one nice guy to boot. I learned a lot just reading about his weapon designs. I have one of his Young Enterprises Diamond Black coated carriers in my SPR as well.

DizBukHaPeter
01-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Corvette to Lingenfelter, or Viper to Hennessy?

Very nice rifles. Wish I had anything like that kind of money.

You dont wanna take your car to Hennessey, he's known to have shady practices.

Laworkerbee
01-25-2008, 06:08 PM
::Looks at own rifle::

"Why don't you look as pretty... you B***H"

Good one man rofl

Grass is always greener Buddy.

SMGLee
01-25-2008, 06:23 PM
A lot questions has always foucsed on EOTech....

Made a little EOTech chart inspired by a member from another forum.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/EOT-workchartdotjpg

this is the LINK (http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/EOT-workchartdotjpg) to the original size file for those that need glasses........:)

Hollis
01-25-2008, 08:05 PM
I need to discuss this with CJ, about making this thread a sticky. Every so often I will remove the non-essential comments that are old to keep the thread as a good resource tool.

Thanks again to SMGLee for doing this.


H.

Argyll
01-25-2008, 08:24 PM
Wes makes an excellent platform.......this thread gets the thumbs up from me

SMGLee
01-25-2008, 08:39 PM
PWS-Primary Weapons Systems

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-011dotjpg
this sytem interest me in several reasons. one, it is low profile enough to be compatible with some rail system right off the bat. the excellent Daniel Defense system is one of them. no modification are required to the rail.

the system are front loading so you can retrive all piston components for cleaning without removing the rail.

the gas adjustment in the front offer a few positions that can be used in various operaion requirement. you can shut off the gas and turn this into a bolt gun for covert sniping.

the system is high quality with a reasonable price, with the DD rail, this conversion is approximate 300.00 or more less then the competition.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-012dotjpg

the stainless gas knob will be finished in production version to be less refective.


http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-013dotjpg

the bleed off or the gas vents are behind the gas regulator. as you can see from some of the vent holes on the rail system, the gas regulator is working quit well.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-014dotjpg
The breakdown view of the gas piston assembly.

the gas key are modified direct gas key with a embedded stake inside to keep it from breaking apart from the punishing piston strikes.

the long rod are inside a protective tubing which has some vent holes underneath to help clear any dirt or grind.


POF-Patriot Ordnance Factory
AKA: Bushmaster, and DS Arms

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-059dotjpg
We move right along over to the POF booth, the other civilian available piston manufacture. being this their home base, POF had a very large presence at the SAR show.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-058dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-057dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/SAR07-055dotjpg
POF's piston breakdown view

LWRC-Land Warfare Resource Corp.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-008dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-024dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-008dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MISC-028dotjpg

HK

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/NTOA-122dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/NTOA-117dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss2007/huge/AAC003dotjpg

Colt 1020
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/shotshow2006/huge/SS06-003dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/shotshow2006/huge/SS06-007dotjpg

re-post from another thread

I have not shot the PWS nor much with the POF, but I do have extensive trigger time on 416 and the LWRC

As far as the limited time on the POF, I find the gun has a very well developed timing and balance. Only disappointing thing is the tall rail system. I keep looking forward to the low profile version, but POF is so busy with the current projects, they just don't have time.

POF systems are well made and it seems to be very reliable. During a past Bortec show, they had their gun running all week under sand and winds while other guns seem to have spotty performance.

PRO: reliability, ease of maintained
CON: rail system

LWRC:
I have had this LWRC upper that they send me for about a year plus. I have not cleaned it, and usually just a light coat of lube and it is off running. It did cough up a few Wolf ammo, but I am leaning more on the bad ammo side, then it was the gun's fault.

The standard h buffer and spring just don't do the gun justice. I upgraded to the heaviest 9mm buffer and also an up rated spring, it tames the recoil a bit and lean turn the gun more like a HK 416. Without it, the recoil impulse is flat and seems straight back but a bit heavier hitting then a DI gun. With the upgraded buffer, it is almost as smooth as a 416. I wonder what a 416 buffer assembly would do for this gun.

The gun was assembled and shipped to me with my LMT upper, the upper and the barrel was overlapped so I have to adjust it a little to get it function 100%, other than that the gun has been spotless.

PRO: reliability, easy maintenance, standard rail profile, light weight,
CON: more recoil.

HK 416
Nothing more I can say, it is smooth, and butter smooth and recoil felt are almost non-existent. It is fairly accurate, as accurate as any DI I have every shot except for the LMT MRP...interesting when the MRP piston surface at Shot 08.

PRO: the best piston gun on the market, reliable, ease4 maintenance, and thoroughly developed engineering piece.
CON: high price and unavailable to civilian....This might change by 2008 with Wilcox.

PWS, I am sending an upper to them for conversion.
From what is told to me, this system will be on par with the rest of the field and it will be more competitively price. You will get a Ferrari at a corvette price. I am definitely looking forward to running it side by side with the 416 and the LWRC.

I want to stress this is only my opinion, someother's might vary. in the end, i am still a DI gas gun man... I can only see the piston as a speicalized segment product for those that goes in harms way that require the ultimate reliable hadji killing system. guys with CQB-R and suppressors should most welcome this trend.

gaijinsamurai
01-25-2008, 09:41 PM
Great info, SMG Lee! This is useful to me, as my next weapons project will likely be an AR-15-type build.

Sand Man
01-25-2008, 09:43 PM
Lovely thread! :)

SRT-M4
01-25-2008, 10:26 PM
Great Thread SMG LEE.
I will add of pic of my piston AR15's to the mix! 2POFS and an LWRC.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/P1050018dotjpg

Createdeemcee
01-25-2008, 11:05 PM
very nice Chen This is going to be a great thread.

SMGLee
01-26-2008, 01:04 AM
Simpliest and the most effective upgrade to any AR platform.

Extractor spring upgrade...I just happen to have a Bravo Company kit that consist of a upgraded spring, rubber o-ring that is made with a more durable material that will withstand the heat from the super heated gas, lube and solvent.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/BCM001dotjpg

Many company offer this upgrade, Bravo, CMMG, Specialized Armament. I have been using the Speicalized Armament upgrade spring with a LMT o-ring in all my bolts.

one other ovber look items, and some said is a overkill is the magazine follower. I always highly recommend the excellent MagPul anti-tilt follower. I make sure all my mags are equipped with this prosduct.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/MagPul-1dotjpg
The standard green follower is on the spring compare to the Magpul.

8thidpathfinderpower
01-26-2008, 02:33 AM
All those toys are great looking on a weapon like flashlight, ACOG/magnifier or NVG, but the weight associated with that, REALLY cramps the speed when you have to shoot. Personally, I would stick with my good ol' bare bones M4/16 with iron sights...might not see in the dark, but in MOUT, they are actually better in my opinion...but thats my opinion.

I also might comment on some of those fancy barrels with muzzle suppressors...fluted barrels are nice, if you plan on firing a ton of ammo fast, Or sniping, but again, its the weight in the end.

What I find amazing about the pictures of the guns, is it seems every one is jumping on the piston band wagon....

SGTM Lee....on the HK 416 you were taliking about, were you talking about a dual piston system like on the latest Russian rifles, and the LR300?

TacoDelRio
01-26-2008, 04:33 AM
8th, different tools for different folks (or tools... j/k). ;-)

I doubt anyone with a heavier SWAT-ish AR15 would think of carrying it through the jungle on a LRS mission or some crap.

Seraphim
01-26-2008, 04:54 AM
fluted barrels are nice, if you plan on firing a ton of ammo fast, Or sniping, but again, its the weight in the end.




Yeah the military never fires a **** load of ammo fast. :roll: Fluting makes the barrel lighter.

Icarus1
01-26-2008, 05:11 AM
These are collector rifles, maybe you take them to the range, but you won't do a 30km patrol trough the jungle of Honduras with it. Very nice, they give me a few ideas for my next acquisition. Thanks.

P.S: I vote "yes" for the sticky thread.

8thidpathfinderpower
01-26-2008, 07:03 AM
:cantbeli:
Yeah the military never fires a **** load of ammo fast. :roll: Fluting makes the barrel lighter.

You are correct it does..it was 12:30am, I had just gotten back from the range and I am beat....be be gentle please! I promise next time not to stick foot in mouth and chomp.....

ZoneOne
01-26-2008, 11:12 AM
Well if I ever was to be deployed in the future, I would make the purchase and get the Trijicon TA31ECOS. I have had many friends come back and say it was worth every penny and then some.

zonk
01-26-2008, 01:20 PM
this is a great thread SMGLEE

D-gin
01-26-2008, 06:00 PM
this is a great thread SMGLEE

I concur. Keep it up Lee, thanks.

SMGLee
01-30-2008, 07:14 PM
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0016_6dotjpg
Vltor VIS with Troy fip up sights, Young Mfg carrier and Surefire 556k flash hider.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0011_8dotjpg
Close up of the CTR vs. the Vltor eMOD vs. the LMT SOPMOD stock
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0014_6dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0010_1dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0002_6dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2111dotjpg
Close up of the build in brake.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0002_5dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0003_7dotjpg
Improved Troy flip up Battlesights. eliminated the AK style front post and replaced with the standard AR affair.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0003_5dotjpg
ION bond/Black Diamond Young mfg carrier.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0006_4dotjpg
MSTN's quiet brake made by PRI

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0005_4dotjpg
Business end of the AR. Noveske flaming pig brake, Tangodown stubby VFG and PRI's flip up front sight.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0001_3dotjpg
Vltor flip up front sight gas block tower.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0001_2dotjpg
Various shades of the P-Mag.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0310dotjpg
MSTN's super shorty with Noveske barrel.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2176_1dotjpg
Super shorty dressed up.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0019dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2275dotjpg
KAC's M4QD flash hider.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2266dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2269dotjpg
close up of the ACOG TA31ECOS

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2092dotjpg
Talk about a tight real estate.


http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2016dotjpg
LaRue's idea of giving your rail a little more real estate.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN1906dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN1907dotjpg
KAC's flip up front and rear sight.

Laconian
01-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Nice stuff, me likey :)

gaijinsamurai
01-31-2008, 01:23 AM
...X2...nice......

TacoDelRio
01-31-2008, 01:37 AM
Agreed... not bad!

BTW, what's the technical term for the barcode dealy on the various parts, like on the upper and ACOG?

Icarus1
01-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Nice customized flash hiders. Do you feel the effect on normal loaded .223?

rnaf
02-05-2008, 03:30 PM
got to love this thread, flaming pigs and pmags.

id sticky it.

JC0352
02-22-2008, 04:36 PM
great thread!

SMGLee
03-11-2008, 05:56 PM
For those that have complained about how the TD grip have some slight movement or the vertical grip did not fit those pesky off spec Picatinny rails.......Here is your answer!!

The newly designed Vertical grip by TangoDown in a joint venture with American Defense feature the quick release capability for those that need to remove the grip for anther accessories mounting, for those out of spec Picatinny rails, and those that require a rock solid mounting of their vertical grip, this is it.

the estimated price will be somewhere in the 80-85.00 range, it will be in full production within the next 40 days, and it will be available in 3 versions and in Ranger Green, Flat Dark Earth and Black. the three versions are the standard grip, the stubby grip and the Insight Tech pressure switch grip.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/TDgripdotjpg

Please note the grip in the picture are prototypes, so the exposed steel hardware will all be finished in flat black in the production version, and the Ranger Green version will be more in tune to the true SOCOM spec'ed color. also the final finish of the plastic will be the normal flat non-reflective finish.

6Gearss
03-11-2008, 08:36 PM
What are the different type grips are here? Not the vertical forwards, but the rears.

SMGLee
03-11-2008, 09:02 PM
What are the different type grips are here? Not the vertical forwards, but the rears.


All three grips are vertical grips.

the black grip is the original Tangodown vertical with the quick release, the switch pocket ate molded for the Surefire switch pad.

the green grip is the short stubby grip, basically a cut down version of the standard grip, it is made for those that require a cut down vertical for ease of operation in confine areas, or those pesky AK with a rock forward magazine.

the tan grip is the enlarged grip that can accommendate an Insight Technology pressure switch, those pads are much larger then a Surefire pressure switch, so this grip has a slightly larger gripping area and also a much larger and deeper switch pocket for the larger Insight switch pad.

esquiar
03-24-2008, 12:14 AM
This thread is BAAH. Keep it up Lee

Sand Man
03-24-2008, 10:30 AM
Chen, do you have a pic of this rifle in its entirety?

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2016dotjpg

If so, can you post it here? I bet it would look way-wicked cool...

Thanks.

SMGLee
03-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Chen, do you have a pic of this rifle in its entirety?

If so, can you post it here? I bet it would look way-wicked cool...

Thanks.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2011dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2013dotjpg

SMGLee
03-24-2008, 07:27 PM
Some Spectre DR shots....

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0005_15dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0019_2dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0018_3dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0016_7dotjpg
Spectre Dr on DMR

Pair of shorty

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0020_3dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0001_11dotjpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0011_2_1dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0013_12dotjpg
LMT Stand alone iron sight with co-witness EOTech 553.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0008_11dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_9_1dotjpg
Noveske Rifle works' adjustable gas block for direct gas guns.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0002_10dotjpg
KAC NVD on a KAC SR15 with URX.

Hispeed1
04-15-2008, 01:30 AM
SMGLee, thanks for posting up Wes'/MSTN pics. They're all so beautiful-it brings tears to my eyes.

TacoDelRio
04-15-2008, 04:31 AM
Chen's evil capitalist pig marketting ploy will not work on me!

Poverty FTW!

Hispeed1
04-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Chen's evil capitalist pig marketting ploy will not work on me!

Poverty FTW!

Heh-heh. By the way happy birthday Taco. SMGLee-please continue to post pics of beautiful AR-15's.

Beowulf
04-15-2008, 01:44 PM
Really nice stuff SMG Lee. Too bad retention was retarded or I'd be working on my own Talib-Slotter right now.

I'd call it the Jamshid War Rifle and resell to "re-enactors" for 8700.00 bucks.

Henry1876
05-25-2008, 12:36 AM
SMGLee,

You know anything about LMT coming out with an updated SOPMOD stock that will accept QD sling mounts like on the Magpul CTR?

Rich

Dicko
05-25-2008, 02:50 AM
mmm gun ****... thanks for the thread SMGLee

Createdeemcee
05-27-2008, 01:36 PM
mmm gun ****... thanks for the thread SMGLee


Chen is the Larry Flint of Gun ****!

lukasss
06-15-2008, 11:10 AM
Well this is new PAR Mk1 from Proarms.

51694516955169651697
51698516995170051701
51702517035170451705
5170651707

Edmond
06-17-2008, 06:51 AM
The precursor. Read from the bottom. p-)

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_Rhino4dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino4dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_Rhino3dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino3dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_Rhino2dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino2dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_Rhino1dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino1dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPG3dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPG3dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPG2dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPG2dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPG1dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPG1dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPGtxt3dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPGtxt3dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPGtxt2dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPGtxt2dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltJPGtxt1dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltJPGtxt1dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/th_WaltLANGENDORFERdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/WaltLANGENDORFERdotjpg)

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_RhinoUpdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/RhinoUpdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinorearinsidedotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinorearinsidedotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinorearoutsidedotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinorearoutsidedotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinopistondotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinopistondotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinofront1dotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinofront1dotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinofrontdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinofrontdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_RhinoBoltdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/RhinoBoltdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rhinoadjustdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rhinoadjustdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_rhinodotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/rhinodotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Regularboltgasringdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Regularboltgasringdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_Rearupdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/Rearupdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_gasvalvedotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/gasvalvedotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_frontsitedotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/frontsitedotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_frontrightdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/frontrightdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_frontdotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/frontdotjpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/th_DSC08168-Copiedotjpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Rhino/DSC08168-Copiedotjpg)

SMGLee
06-17-2008, 01:44 PM
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]The precursor. Read from the bottom. p-)

wrong, Rhino was not the Precursor of the AR piston movement.........

and the Rhino system never worked that effectively.

Edmond
06-17-2008, 04:23 PM
The precursor of all these upgrades/conversions we see popping like daisies after the rain.
I well know the piston existed before since the first reliable rifle using this system was the ENT 1901 followed by Rossignol rifle, STA rifle then Meunier A6 adopted in 1913 and finally the RSC 1917 then RSC 1918.

Btw, you base your opinion of the Rhino's reliability on hearsay or first hand experience ?

references, semi auto rifles using gas piston then direct impigement

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/930108487 (http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/930108487)

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/316109667 (http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/316109667)

http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/les%20armes.html

SMGLee
06-18-2008, 02:23 AM
No, you are not understanding what I am telling you....the M16 piston system existed long before the Rhino system......Colt, Stoner have designed piston M16 and flat top receiver back during the early M16 life cycle.

James
06-18-2008, 10:38 PM
Edmond, what magazine was that Rhino article from? When?

Hollis
06-18-2008, 11:11 PM
No, you are not understanding what I am telling you....the M16 piston system existed long before the Rhino system......Colt, Stoner have designed piston M16 and flat top receiver back during the early M16 life cycle.


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/ARDRdotjpg

Edmond
06-20-2008, 07:09 AM
Edmond, what magazine was that Rhino article from? When?

SWAT Magazine, 86

SMGLee
06-23-2008, 05:55 PM
Revised PWS piston update!!

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0218dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0219dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0220dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0221dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0223dotJPG

Here is the break down of the components that Todd at PWS put ogether for me with love:)

LMT Receiver
Diemaco C8A2 14.5" Hammer Forged CL barrel
Smith Ent. Vortex G6A2
LMT bolt carrier group
PRI Gas Buster
Vortex G6A2
Daniel Defense Lite Rail.
Mid West Industry Front and Rear BUIS.
Aimpoint M4s
ADM raised M4 mount
the usual TangoDown pistol, vertical grip and rail panels
Tangodown PR-06 rear sling mount
Magpul trigger guard
Vltor e-MOD stock
Insight Technology M6x with rifle switch.

I mounted the front BUIS on the rail instead of the set screw gas block for security reason.

Correction: I did wipe it down after the Surefire class during the suppressor test. fired about five magazines with the SF can and it also ran fine, afterwards, I just took the carrier out to wipe it down and lube it with soime more Mil-Tec.

As far as the balanced carrier design with the rod attached to the gas key, this method has had no ill effect such as carrier tipping.

Recoil is very smooth with a 9mm buffer and less sharply as the LWRC. I would rank the PWS on par with the LWRC with lower pricing.

SMGLee
06-30-2008, 12:42 AM
I sold my original MK12MOD0 upper last year, and ever since then, I been thinking about getting another 556 precision gun.

Along comes Centurion Arms, the owner of Centurion Arm were high recomended by some induserial heav weights and since he was local to me(San Diego), I hooked up with him on a business trip to San diego and talkd about building another SPR for me.

here is a picture of him with NAVSPECWAR in OIF, he used his SPR to clear almost 200 houses in one day....
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/OIF_0001adotjpg

In received my SPR build last week, and did not have a chance to shoot it until this weekend.

With his SPR build, he uses his own Centurion Arms barrel which are turned, chamber and rifled by the same exact shop that did the barrel for all the CRANE Mk12s. 18 inch barrel with 1:7 twist with the exact CRANE spec SPR chamber.

Colt upper with Colt bolt carrier group
PRI Gas Bster
KAC front BUIS
KAC 600mrear BUIS
KAC Free Float RAS
KAC Gas Block
OPS Inc brake and collar

All this set me back approximately 1800 dollars which are pretty on par with the industry standard cost.

this morning I took my new toy to the SBSD range, they have a 300m rifle range where I was able to zero at 100, and shot some groups from 100, 200 and 300yrds.

the muzzle vel for the 77gr SMK was around 2750fps some slight varations, and I grouped at 1MOA at 100, and the group extened to a little over 3 inches at 300m.

this again is coming from a avg. shooter without too much long range shooting experience. I was surprised to be able to get this kind of result, for some one with much better skill, they could definitely shoot well under 1MOA with tis beauty.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/IMG_0931_1_dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/IMG_0898dotjpg

I tried to stay faithful to the original SPR set up except for the scope, since I already had a NF 2-10x in stock and did not want to pay for MR/T.

Sand Man
07-21-2008, 12:28 PM
Any pics of the KAC PDW's dual gas piston system (http://www.defense-review.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1055), Chen?

SMGLee
07-21-2008, 12:39 PM
Tried to ask them to let me get a pic, but during the Shot show this year, the dual piston was still under wraps.

SilentType
07-22-2008, 08:36 PM
Wooh, can you mount a HK 416 upper on an American lower? I thought that would be a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922r's parts count for imported firearms. I think you'd have to SBR' the rifle and pay the tax before the ATF would let you get away with that or be a Class III dealer that can handle imported stuff.

The HK 416 is made in Germany right they're not making them in the USA yet are they? Maybe you're good though if the ATF hasn't listed the HK416 as a ban rifle? Complicated.

SMGLee
07-22-2008, 11:55 PM
Uppers are not a serialized part, therefore it is consider only parts, not a firearm. the only serial number part on the AR is the lower receiver, so if the lower is made in America, then youhave no import law that you need to be concern with. thousands of people with HK 416 uppers on their Amercan AR lower are perfectly legal.

wildcat
07-22-2008, 11:57 PM
Uppers are not a serialized part, therefore it is consider only parts, not a firearm. the only serial number part on the AR is the lower receiver, so if the lower is made in America, then youhave no import law that you need to be concern with. thousands of people with HK 416 uppers on their Amercan AR lower are perfectly legal.

My questions is the HK 416 upper price going to be worth it compared with other US vendors.

SMGLee
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
My questions is the HK 416 upper price going to be worth it compared with other US vendors.


It is only worth the 5000 dollars that the sellers are asking for if you must, have to, had to own a HK16, otherwise, it is not worth anything over the retail 1200.00 for he entire gun.

take your PWS for example, it shoots just as nice as a 416, just as reliable, just as accurate if you use a good quality barrel and components, and just as easy to clean. it is lighter and cheaper. so in the car world, it is like comparing a German made Porsche 911 turbo to a Corvette ZO6, the ZO6 is every bit as good and as fast as the Porsche, but you pay twice as much for the Turbo.....

I really only consider two, maybe three piston conversion Stateside that are wroth a damn...

PWS and LWRC are my top choice, but PWS win out with lower price and faster delivery and a set up that will take a regular rail system.

the three place would have to go to POF, it is a nice system, but it is too high profile and you have to use their high rail on rail handguard in order to run this set up... to me that is a big detractor.

wildcat
07-23-2008, 12:20 AM
It is only worth the 5000 dollars that the sellers are asking for if you must, have to, had to own a HK16, otherwise, it is not worth anything over the retail 1200.00 for he entire gun.

take your PWS for example, it shoots just as nice as a 416, just as reliable, just as accurate if you use a good quality barrel and components, and just as easy to clean. it is lighter and cheaper. so in the car world, it is like comparing a German made Porsche 911 turbo to a Corvette ZO6, the ZO6 is every bit as good and as fast as the Porsche, but you pay twice as much for the Turbo.....

I really only consider two, maybe three piston conversion Stateside that are wroth a damn...

PWS and LWRC are my top choice, but PWS win out with lower price and faster delivery and a set up that will take a regular rail system.

the three place would have to go to POF, it is a nice system, but it is too high profile and you have to use their high rail on rail handguard in order to run this set up... to me that is a big detractor.

Thanks this is good information for other to know, I planning all mine to go the PWS route now, PS tomorrow I going shooting.

Kilo1-1
07-23-2008, 02:20 AM
thousands of people with HK 416 uppers on their Amercan AR lower are perfectly legal.

I thought only a handful of 416 uppers trickled into the civilian market before HK decided to stop selling them to civilians? I'd love to get one myself...but as you said, it does cost more, while as cheaper systems work just as well.



Thanks this is good information for other to know, I planning all mine to go the PWS route now, PS tomorrow I going shooting.
I love that feeling when I go. Have fun. :)

wildcat
07-23-2008, 02:25 AM
I love that feeling when I go. Have fun. :)

Will be a busy day, have 3 rifles to sight, 2 scopes. I will take some snaps, post latter tomorrow. I going to the local gun club, once it all is sited in ,I then shoot out in the forest, it is cheaper.

Kilo1-1
07-23-2008, 02:40 AM
Haha, yea, I know what you mean by 'cheaper', haha.
Sounds like fun, I envy you...at least just for tomorrow/today.

OUTLAW-ONE
07-23-2008, 09:42 PM
I just sold my 416 upper for $4300. I'll miss it but I'll survive. I paid $3000 for it last year.

http://media3.dropshots.com/photos/254538/20080611/b_124503dotjpg

DoctorCheney223
07-24-2008, 12:31 AM
Here are some of my "shop" guns with the PWS Retrofit on them. I will state of front that I am a Authorized Installer of the PWS system so I am not trying to hide an agenda.

One of our Retro fits currently has 14K rounds through it (installed in a Post Sample M-16 that ONLY USED HOT frangible ammo).

Here are the pics...

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9554/magpulsbr12ym7dotjpg


http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4379/magpulcarblack2na2dotjpg











http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2526/magpulcarblackms1dotjpg





http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6249/odm42lg2dotjpg


thanks,
Ron

wildcat
07-24-2008, 12:38 AM
Here are some of my "shop" guns with the PWS Retrofit on them. I will state of front that I am a Authorized Installer of the PWS system so I am not trying to hide an agenda.

One of our Retro fits currently has 14K rounds through it (installed in a Post Sample M-16 that ONLY USED HOT frangible ammo).

Here are the pics...
thanks,
Ron

Took my PWS convert shooting today for the first time, and fell in love with it.

SMGLee
07-24-2008, 12:44 AM
I just sold my 416 upper for $4300. I'll miss it but I'll survive. I paid $3000 for it last year.

You did well, and you got your upper at a good price. currently there is word on the street that 416 supplies might start to dry up. already the 14.5 are hard as heck to come by, the last batch of 25 416 uppers i seen were all 10.5 inch uppers.

By the way, that 14.5inch 416 was a beauty.....very nice set up.

Revised PWS piston update!!

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0218dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0219dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0220dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0221dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0223dotJPG

Here is the break down of the components that Todd at PWS put ogether for me with love:)

LMT Receiver
Diemaco C8A2 14.5" Hammer Forged CL barrel
Smith Ent. Vortex G6A2
LMT bolt carrier group
PRI Gas Buster
Vortex G6A2
Daniel Defense Lite Rail.
Mid West Industry Front and Rear BUIS.
Aimpoint M4s
ADM raised M4 mount
the usual TangoDown pistol, vertical grip and rail panels
Tangodown PR-06 rear sling mount
Magpul trigger guard
Vltor e-MOD stock
Insight Technology M6x with rifle switch.

I mounted the front BUIS on the rail instead of the set screw gas block for security reason.

I did wipe it down after the Surefire class during the suppressor test. fired about five magazines with the SF can and it also ran fine, afterwards, I just took the carrier out to wipe it down and lube it with soime more Mil-Tec.

Noticen the gas block is all discolored, I shot so much without care, the metal has been disc oloered by the heat and dry as heck.

As far as the balanced carrier design with the rod attached to the gas key, this method has had no ill effect such as carrier tipping.

Recoil is very smooth with a 9mm buffer and less sharply as the LWRC. I would rank the PWS on par with the LWRC with lower pricing.

Kilo1-1
07-24-2008, 01:19 AM
Ah damn, that's some nice stuff Outlaw, SMGLee.
So how common are 416 uppers in the civilian market again? Seems like an awful lot of money just for one upper.

wildcat
07-24-2008, 01:25 AM
Ah damn, that's some nice stuff Outlaw, SMGLee.
So how common are 416 uppers in the civilian market again? Seems like an awful lot of money just for one upper.

I believe it is limited production that keeps the prices high, and with out a large government order, then the production runs will be small. Maybe that will change no other military's are moving to the 416.

Also I think the must have a HK416, saw it on future weapons crowd, adds to demand, but not enough probably increase the productions runs.

Kilo1-1
07-24-2008, 01:51 AM
I believe it is limited production that keeps the prices high, and with out a large government order, then the production runs will be small. Maybe that will change no other military's are moving to the 416.

Also I think the must have a HK416, saw it on future weapons crowd, adds to demand, but not enough probably increase the productions runs.

Oh ok, that makes sense. I saw SMGLee's post earlier about how there were "thousands" of 416 uppers circulating, so I thought there would have been more. But with the cost of buying that upper alone, I could build another 3 or so ARs.

Ah, and how was the range time today? :)

wildcat
07-24-2008, 01:56 AM
Oh ok, that makes sense. I saw SMGLee's post earlier about how there were "thousands" of 416 uppers circulating, so I thought there would have been more. But with the cost of buying that upper alone, I could build another 3 or so ARs.

Ah, and how was the range time today? :)
I am planing 4 more systems, all will have 20" heavy barrel (bushmasters), DSArms lower receiver (bushmasters parts, stock), and a PWS system with Daniel lite rail, i looking at the cost being $1300 max with piston.

SMGLee
07-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Oh ok, that makes sense. I saw SMGLee's post earlier about how there were "thousands" of 416 uppers circulating, so I thought there would have been more. But with the cost of buying that upper alone, I could build another 3 or so ARs.

Ah, and how was the range time today? :)

There are proably a good thousand plus uppers circulating in the civilian hands, myself alone have seen over a houndred uppers. and this is just liitle ole me...

somehow I believe the HK 416 uppers are around, but with about 1k on the market, it is still a hot item that people are willing to pay high mark up for.

There are rumor that Wilcox is not going to get their hands wet with the 416/417, but I have yet been able to confirm that statement. if that is the case, the HK 416 upper will remain to be expensive for awhile to come.

SMGLee
07-24-2008, 01:16 PM
I am planing 4 more systems, all will have 20" heavy barrel (bushmasters), DSArms lower receiver (bushmasters parts, stock), and a PWS system with Daniel lite rail, i looking at the cost being $1300 max with piston.

why four similar systems?

I have some 16 inch Cold hammer forged double chrome line mid gas length RECCE barrels that is shorter and lighter than the Bushmaster HB and it will out last and out shoot the BM barrel. I think you want an accurate DMR/SPR/RECCE/precision AR, you might want to go with a direct gas upper with one of those barrels....hanging extra weight on the front end in ways of gas regulator, pistons and so forth will always detract from your potential accuracy. Keep the barrel freeeeeeeeee!!

SMGLee
07-24-2008, 01:19 PM
Here are some of my "shop" guns with the PWS Retrofit on them. I will state of front that I am a Authorized Installer of the PWS system so I am not trying to hide an agenda.
thanks,
Ron

Doc build some very nice AKs, I bet your PWS conversion will be just as beautiful....

wildcat
07-24-2008, 05:25 PM
why four similar systems?

I have some 16 inch Cold hammer forged double chrome line mid gas length RECCE barrels that is shorter and lighter than the Bushmaster HB and it will out last and out shoot the BM barrel. I think you want an accurate DMR/SPR/RECCE/precision AR, you might want to go with a direct gas upper with one of those barrels....hanging extra weight on the front end in ways of gas regulator, pistons and so forth will always detract from your potential accuracy. Keep the barrel freeeeeeeeee!!

Here is a good quesiton, I see there are Cold hammer forged barrels and then there are cryogenic treated chrome-moly lined barrels, which one is the better?

SMGLee
07-24-2008, 08:22 PM
Here is a good quesiton, I see there are Cold hammer forged barrels and then there are cryogenic treated chrome-moly lined barrels, which one is the better?


The cyro barrel are kind of a myth, some thing that works and some don't.

cold hammer forged barrel are about the most long lasting and most accurate combat barrel the market has to offer. all the FN barrels are all hammer forged.

do some research, you will find those are probably the barrel to have in a combat arm.

wildcat
07-26-2008, 12:28 AM
The cyro barrel are kind of a myth, some thing that works and some don't.

cold hammer forged barrel are about the most long lasting and most accurate combat barrel the market has to offer. all the FN barrels are all hammer forged.

do some research, you will find those are probably the barrel to have in a combat arm.
Thanks I will look around for those that sell AR cold hammer forged barrels.

huurling
08-06-2008, 06:05 PM
Nice builds.
Thank you for sharing the pictures.

Bangbangboogie69
08-06-2008, 08:06 PM
Smglee is the gun industry's best kept thing to Brad Pitt in the movie industry...Did i say Brad Pitt? I meant to say Ron Jeremy!
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/7/2/5/8/3/webimg/159994599_odotjpg

MaverickCowboy
09-02-2008, 12:14 PM
does the monolithic uninterupted rail forend work on an AR-10? rathern, can it be modified to reliably otherwise?

*the KAC URX RAS, on the AR-10. does it work , can it be modified slightly to otherwise*

RSone
09-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Must........restrain..............self............from drooling.............p-)

SMGLee
09-03-2008, 05:41 PM
does the monolithic uninterupted rail forend work on an AR-10? rathern, can it be modified to reliably otherwise?

*the KAC URX RAS, on the AR-10. does it work , can it be modified slightly to otherwise*

Daniel Defense make a continous rail for the AR10.

akd
09-24-2008, 12:55 PM
SMGLee,

How many settings does the PWS system have? Have you tried it with a can?

SMGLee
09-25-2008, 02:39 PM
Amazing that you asked, I will be shooting it with a can this weekend. will get some rep-ort back to MP.net by Monday.

akd
09-25-2008, 07:03 PM
Cool, I look forward to it.

SMGLee
10-30-2008, 01:25 AM
AKD,

Shot some more of the PWS, the piston rod attached to the gas key came loose... I have the 1st generation setup and supposedly the new version are more robust...I am sending it back to get it put back together...

Other than that.. the gun continue to run flewlessly and it is definitey louder compare to a DI gas gun...

SMGLee
10-30-2008, 01:29 AM
I just receiver my new upper

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1190dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1191dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1198dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1197dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1192dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1193dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1194dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1195dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN1196dotJPG
The OPS inc recessed into the step properly cut by the unnamed gentlemen.

Hippo
10-30-2008, 03:35 AM
damn that looks nice

what lower will you be running her on?

Hippo
10-30-2008, 03:40 AM
damnit double post

James
10-30-2008, 10:39 AM
Chen,

In your experience with various piston designs, have you experienced detrimental bolt carrier tilting with replacement kits?

Just curious.

gaijinsamurai
10-30-2008, 10:45 AM
That's a nice Centurian upper, Chen.

Damn, your thread is giving me lots of ideas for my cuurent project, and causing me to overspend!!!!

SMGLee
10-30-2008, 12:45 PM
Chen,

In your experience with various piston designs, have you experienced detrimental bolt carrier tilting with replacement kits?

Just curious.

James,

None of the current crop of the drop in piston modification has the proper design to combat the infamous carrier tilt nor does any of the drop in system made durable or reliable...

Their is only a few companies that has good piston design...

HK......expensive and unavailable...
LWRC....expensive and long wait...
PWS...good pricing, but i have had a few teething problems so far. the latest generation PWS are very reliable.
POF...good pricing, durable, reliable, but i just hate the rail on rail application.

there is one other company, ADC, they are about to release their piston upper and it is a conversion not a drop in kit. it is developed with the help of Larry Vickers and this piston is supposed to have less recoil then a DI gas gun, which are unheard of in the piston arena. also they build in the proper carrier bulge to defeat the carrier tilt. This is supposed to be the de facto piston but all this is heresay from a very reliable source. I will not know for sure until I get my hands on one of those.

SMGLee
10-30-2008, 12:48 PM
Damn, your thread is giving me lots of ideas for my cuurent project, and causing me to overspend!!!!

I would not want to disappoint....here is another idea...

This is the adapter made by EOTech so you can mount your PVS-14 to your EOTech magnifier flip to side mount.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1167dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1168dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1163dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1166dotjpg
It is just a simple but robust ring with plate that will fit right into the ARMS throw lever mount.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1170dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1173dotjpg

California Joe
10-30-2008, 01:01 PM
Centurion does nice work. Is their logo engraved on it? :)

SMGLee
10-30-2008, 01:33 PM
not yet... but in the future they will proof mark their logo on the upper and the barrel to identify their prodict as they build them...

ZoneOne
10-30-2008, 08:44 PM
Is that the 1800 upper you were talking about on the previous page? Have you put it through its paces?

I just am in the last day of an Army Marksmanship Unit class shooting AR's at 600m and it's giving me a bug to get something new. So I'm curious to say the least.

Kilo1-1
10-30-2008, 09:00 PM
Nice Mk12 upper Chen. Those are the uppers made by Monte right? I remember vaguely reading about them on M4carbine.net about the uppers being "true" MK12s with actual Crane parts or something. Out of curiosity, do you know what upper they're using for the build? The overall deal seems to have everything I want in a MK12 styled upper.

SMGLee
10-31-2008, 12:05 AM
Monty sourced all parts from the exact vender that provided the parts for the Crane SPR. he won't tell me his source and I canunderstand coming from his business point of view...

for my build, i provided my own KC RAS, BUIS and also a CMT upper with Colt bolt carrier....Monty did the rest.

Kilo1-1
11-02-2008, 01:55 AM
Oh ok, thanks for the info. Glad the build turned out really well. Can we expect a range report sooner or later?

Hispeed1
11-14-2008, 03:23 AM
Nice. 1234567890

SMGLee
11-14-2008, 01:08 PM
Oh ok, thanks for the info. Glad the build turned out really well. Can we expect a range report sooner or later?

Fairly soon, just broke in the barrel this past weekend with some 62gr M855. will go for accuracy in two weeks.

Here is some pictures of my new toy...

HK 416 14.5inch upper with AAC blackout flash hider and PRI military latch on charging handle
EOTech 555
Tangodown VFG with a unknown side sling mount i found in the parts bin.
Vltor offsit flash light mount in up right position. I ride my hand high on the VFG so it is very natural for my thumb to rest on the push button.
Surefire 6PLED with Tactical NightVision Company 256Lumen LED lamp conversion.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1257dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1258dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1260dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1261dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1262dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1263dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1264dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1265dotjpg

tactical73
11-15-2008, 06:09 AM
nice toy Chen ;-)

SMGLee
12-02-2008, 02:01 PM
This is why MP5 is being replaced by the USSOCOM and LE agency across the country...same size, better against body armor, longer range, and no over penetration.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1285dotjpg

Kilo1-1
12-03-2008, 04:32 PM
Very nice Chen. A Seal guy a few years back told me that they didn't cost as much either.

Who made the SBR upper on that AR?

Createdeemcee
12-03-2008, 04:36 PM
Wow Chen, Another great toy. How do you like the diopiter sights??

tactical73
12-04-2008, 05:53 AM
nice pics Chen ;-)

Lawdog-1
01-12-2009, 01:01 AM
SMGLee, do you have a web site, what products do you sell?

SMGLee
02-16-2009, 02:11 PM
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2450dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2452dotjpg

Following the success of British SA80A2 project that HK did for British MoD, HK carry that momentum to the M16 platform as the next logical choice. As soon as the HK 416 hit the military market, been a favorite combat platform for the elite of the elites, and a much desired weapon in the US civilian market with street prices that reached the astronomical 5000.00 for a complete barreled piston upper, HK recoil buffer and buffer spring.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2444dotjpg
While due to some political restrains, HK was unable to sell the HK 416 on the US soil for the civilian market, it created a void for others to follow. First into the fold was LWRC, which has been one of the few successful piston systems that can match directly against the HK 416 system in turns of performance and durability. Later POF join the fray and soon a salute of cottage industry risen to fill the new piston craze. From drop in system to conversion, so far only LWRC, POF and newcomer PWS has proven to be a viable system.
This year LMT pushed out their long under development piston system based the MRP (Monolithic rail platform). LMT has had a piston system from as far back as the SCAR solicitation, but due to production schedule/availability, timing and LMT ‘s desire to come out with a system to topple the rest, resulted in the delivery of the system until now. The standard direct gas MRP has been the Ferrari of all M4/M16 platforms with features such as quick change barrel, solid one piece rail platform, and now a piston system. Most of the piston system on the market including the HK 416 has a much different recoil impulse than the direct gas guns, the felt recoil is more of a sharper jolt. The HK 416 recoil impulse is not as smooth nor is it as soft as the direct gas guns, but for reliability, there is no matching the capability of the HK. LMT MRP in another hand, it is about as smooth and as soft recoiling as the direct gas gun, in comparison to the HK 416, the LMT piston system are far more like the recoil of the direct gas guns than anything I have shot recently, including the LWRC, POF, and PWS.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2448dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2447dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2446dotjpg
We set up the LMT piston system with just the basic, EOTech 556, Midwest Industry flip front and rear SPLP sight, TangoDown rail panels and vertical grip. The host lower has a H2 buffer with standard recoil spring. All testing was shot using the latest in magazine technology, the new TangoDown ARC polymer magazine.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2442dotjpg
The accuracy of the piston MRP is also on par to the hammer forged barrel on the HK 416. We shot ****e from 100 yards, the scoped used was a Leupold MR/T 2-8X36 with illuminated mil-dot mounted to a American Defense Manufacturing 30mm quick detachable mount. Both guns shooting a 1-2MOA group with Hornady 75GR TAP, about 2-3 MOA with Lake City M855 and also M193. We also ran Wolf but that ammo was more for reliability testing than actual accuracy. The numbers posted by the LMT MRP are on par with any combat carbine currently fielding. I believe if I used a match trigger for the testing, the accuracy results would be slightly better.
As far as reliability, the HK has proven itself time and time again on the battlefield; can the LMT match its pace? As HK are already a proven system, we concentrated on the MRP piston. We shot 500 rounds of wolf, 500 rounds of M193 and also 500 rounds of M855 plus a saluted of reloads and factory ammo from various shooters at the training session that day. The total round count came to approximately 2000 rounds during the day. The LMT piston worked flawlessly. And the internals only took a simple wipe down to get it clean. However due to Wolf ammo, we had to scrub the throat, chamber and also the bolt head to get rid of the red sealant common on the Wolf ammo.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2457dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2458dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2460dotjpg
HK 416 utilize a lot of proprietary components, from barrel, barrel nut, bolt, bolt carrier, to firing pin, none of this is interchangeable with the Direct gas guns, and you would have to run the HK buffer and spring in order to keep the recoil impulse in check. But with the MRP you actually have a few more common parts to the DI gas gun than the HK, you can still run the standard bolt and firing pins inside the MRP which are some of the more commonly replaced parts in the AR system. With the HK, you would pay a high price for the armor’s tool just to remove the barrel, with the LMT, two torque screws which keep the barrel secured in the monolithic rail platform. For those of us that are not on a government budget, the MRP is definitely a lot easier to service than the HK 416.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2461dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2462dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2463dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2464dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2467dotjpg
HK piston is a top loading system, although the rail system on the HK 416 is supposed to return to zero, a lot of operators I spoke with never like to remove the rail to clean the piston since re-zeroing the PEQ15 are very time consuming task. LMT MRP is a front loading system; all parts are easily accessed by removing the front gas regulator plug, so you do not have to remove the rail system to access the piston. Also the plus is adjustable for standard fire and suppressed fire; this is a major plus for those that run suppressed guns. We had the opportunity to shoot both system with the excellent AAC M4-2000 and the result was interesting. With a suppressed piston system, it is naturally much louder than a suppressed DI gas gun due to the gas regulator releasing excess gas. The LMT MRP shot slightly quieter than the HK 416. We measured with a studio quality sound meter placed at the shooter’s left ear. The HK piston system shot approximately 1.5dB higher than a DI gas gun, but with the LMT the sound suppression came within 1 dB of the DI gas gun. Both guns ran higher cyclic rate when suppressed, but it was still slower than a Colt M4 suppressed.
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2468dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2469dotjpg

LMT MRP piston system, it is on par with the weight of the HK 416, which is heavy compare to a Direct Gas M4, but you give up in turns of weight to gain the ultimate reliability in an AR system. But With the LMT MRP piston system, you have a platform (so far) that is just as reliable as the HK 416, but at half of the cost (street price LMT at 1400.00 vs. 4000.00 for the HK 416), less recoil, softer shooting platform with slightly more common parts than the HK 416. Only remaining question is how reliable is the piston system design? This will require more than just the 2000 rounds I shot in a day, I will have to keep this gem and run a lot more rounds through it. I plan on taking this gun with me to Larry Vicker’s carbine class in South Hill, Virginia in a month time.

And for now, if you ask me which piston system to buy, I would highly recommend the LMT MRP piston system, its reliable, just as accurate, cheaper and more available to the civilian market, trecoil is smoother, front loading for an easier access to the piston and has more common parts than the HK 416 to the atandard M4 so you can stock up spare parts easier. LMT MRP piston is the clear winner in my book.

Expert Marksman 126
02-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Fairly soon, just broke in the barrel this past weekend with some 62gr M855. will go for accuracy in two weeks.

Here is some pictures of my new toy...

HK 416 14.5inch upper with AAC blackout flash hider and PRI military latch on charging handle
EOTech 555
Tangodown VFG with a unknown side sling mount i found in the parts bin.
Vltor offsit flash light mount in up right position. I ride my hand high on the VFG so it is very natural for my thumb to rest on the push button.
Surefire 6PLED with Tactical NightVision Company 256Lumen LED lamp conversion.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1257dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1258dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1260dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1261dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1262dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1263dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1264dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1265dotjpg

Will you adopt me? :)

SMGLee
02-17-2009, 02:06 PM
Nice review.

On the HK 416, what is the pivoting bar that is attached to where the gas key used to be? What is its function?

Cheers

That is the firing pin block, it is proventing the gun doing slam fire...there were some problems in the early developement and testing by the mil groups, so this device was added to provent the situation from happening again.

SMGLee
02-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Does the bolt tilt upwards when it is fired and scrape inside the buffer tube? I read in a few places online that gas pistons in AR's cause the bolt to tilt up when it is riding back. Some had pictures with shaving and all that in the lower. Any sign of that in either of these? I was planning on building my own gas piston AR when I get back form Iraq.

that is call carrier tilt, that is why you see a enlarged pad on the rear of the carrier on the HK and the LMT.. the enlarged anti-tilt pad helps with thecarrier tilting. that is one of the reason never to go with a drop in system for serious duty.

SMGLee
02-18-2009, 12:35 PM
I am very curious to see what kind of internal receiver wear you are getting on the two receivers. If you can do some extended tests you should track that and see if some of the more explosive issues are still present....


I will check on this further, I am going to run the LMT piston at an industry only Larry Vickers class in March in VA. get more updates..


Chen

Hispeed1
02-23-2009, 01:32 PM
I will check on this further, I am going to run the LMT piston at an industry only Larry Vickers class in March in VA. get more updates..
Chen

Please post pics from that if you can. (Persec'd of-course)

BrianT
03-13-2009, 04:23 PM
Vltor VIS with Troy fip up sights, Young Mfg carrier and Surefire 556k flash hider.


Close up of the CTR vs. the Vltor eMOD vs. the LMT SOPMOD stock





Close up of the build in brake.



Improved Troy flip up Battlesights. eliminated the AK style front post and replaced with the standard AR affair.


ION bond/Black Diamond Young mfg carrier.


MSTN's quiet brake made by PRI


Business end of the AR. Noveske flaming pig brake, Tangodown stubby VFG and PRI's flip up front sight.


Vltor flip up front sight gas block tower.


Various shades of the P-Mag.


MSTN's super shorty with Noveske barrel.

Super shorty dressed up.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/IMG_0019dotjpg


KAC's M4QD flash hider.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2266dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/huge/DSCN2269dotjpg
close up of the ACOG TA31ECOS


Talk about a tight real estate.



LaRue's idea of giving your rail a little more real estate.



KAC's flip up front and rear sight.
Hey, I was just thinking of getting this optic. I was just curious if the DR was a bit too high to comfortably use or does it sit fairly perfect for looking over the top of the weapon. I knew someone that had that setup, but they since left the Army.

James
03-14-2009, 12:56 AM
I've used a very similar setup with a J-Point precision red dot on an ACOG. It is definitely higher than an Eotech or Aimpoint. At first it felt a little awkward making the transition from ACOG to red dot, because you have to lift your head. You basically don't have a cheek weld with the little red dot, but I got used to it pretty quickly. The only reason I stopped using it for work was because I didn't want to travel in and out of the U.S. with a $1000 + optic.

SMGLee
03-15-2009, 02:48 PM
Hey, I was just thinking of getting this optic. I was just curious if the DR was a bit too high to comfortably use or does it sit fairly perfect for looking over the top of the weapon. I knew someone that had that setup, but they since left the Army.

I like the ACOG ECOS, I normally zero the red dot at 100yrds so I just hold high to POA anywhere from 0-100yrds. I switched back to the EO
Tech since it is just something I am familiar to it and someone offer me good $$ for the ECOS.

At the recent LAV class, Larry made a strong mention on how much he disliked the ACOG with a peggy backed red dot. because at close inrange, the hold over is a bit extreme.... a head shot at ten yrds, you are virtually hovering above the target's head.

James
03-15-2009, 11:43 PM
At the recent LAV class, Larry made a strong mention on how much he disliked the ACOG with a peggy backed red dot. because at close inrange, the hold over is a bit extreme.... a head shot at ten yrds, you are virtually hovering above the target's head.

Good point. When I used this set up, I zeroed the red dot at 25m and ACOG at 100m to help alleviate this exact problem.

HK in AK
03-16-2009, 12:43 AM
Anybody use the new Eotechs with the .223 BDC? I have read about them, but no IRL info. I like the standard donut Eotech with the 3x adapter.

Thanks guys for the input............

SMGLee
03-16-2009, 03:17 PM
Anybody use the new Eotechs with the .223 BDC? I have read about them, but no IRL info. I like the standard donut Eotech with the 3x adapter.

Thanks guys for the input............

I have been running the EOTech 557 with the 3X magnifier.

I am like you , I find the A65 reticle suitable for my use. I know my bullet drop from my 14.5 inch barrel MRP so I know about where to hold the dot over the target at certain distance....and with the A65 reticle, I can basically range estimate with it... if a person fit inside the 65 MOA, it ia approximately 100yrds away, if fit only half, that is 200yrds. so on and so forth...It is good for out to about 200m, and anything beyond, you would have to guessimate. it is not as precise as said a mil-dot, but then again, I am shooting a mil-spec 5.56 from a combat carbine, I only desire to make hit on target at extended distance.

HK in AK
03-17-2009, 03:30 AM
SMG Lee, once again you prove you are such a great resource. Thank you for your comments, and I have my Sig 556 rifle set up the same way.....

ayanami_tard
03-17-2009, 10:36 AM
how about the chinese-made M-16
no review about them?(just askin)

voncoz
03-17-2009, 12:15 PM
I will check on this further, I am going to run the LMT piston at an industry only Larry Vickers class in March in VA. get more updates..


Chen
How did the LMT piston upper perform at the Vickers class?

SMGLee
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
How did the LMT piston upper perform at the Vickers class?

I got one more range session to go, i will post some more detail on it..

So far it is a gem....

Pete031
03-18-2009, 01:32 PM
I've used a very similar setup with a J-Point precision red dot on an ACOG. It is definitely higher than an Eotech or Aimpoint. At first it felt a little awkward making the transition from ACOG to red dot, because you have to lift your head. You basically don't have a cheek weld with the little red dot, but I got used to it pretty quickly. The only reason I stopped using it for work was because I didn't want to travel in and out of the U.S. with a $1000 + optic.


I used one in A-Stan. Loved it. But you are right, the tranistion from the ACOG to the Holo took a little bit to get used to.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 12:22 PM
I plan on hitting up another gun show in town tomorrow, and planned on getting a case of this stuff for my AR. $450 a good deal on 1,000 rounds?

http://www.pmcammo.com/bronze-rifle.html

SMGLee
03-20-2009, 12:55 PM
Ammo aren't cheap anymore....PMC usually is the dirtier and less powerful stuff on the market....but if that is the best rpice you can get and I would get some.

Actually some of the newer Wolf with the polymer casing aren't that bad...just dirty and you would need to clean your weapon after the range session.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 01:10 PM
Ammo aren't cheap anymore....PMC usually is the dirtier and less powerful stuff on the market....but if that is the best rpice you can get and I would get some.

Actually some of the newer Wolf with the polymer casing aren't that bad...just dirty and you would need to clean your weapon after the range session.

Thanks, Chen. Would you think that Remington UMC target ammo runs cleaner than the PMC?

SMGLee
03-20-2009, 02:00 PM
Thanks, Chen. Would you think that Remington UMC target ammo runs cleaner than the PMC?


UMC ran a lot cleaner, higher velocity but much more $$$$$$$.

Seriously, if you are looking for plinking range ammo....I would have to say Wolf for 300.00 per 1K. just make sure you clean your gun well afterwards...

JC0352
03-20-2009, 02:03 PM
UMC ran a lot cleaner, higher velocity but much more $$$$$$$.

Seriously, if you are looking for plinking range ammo....I would have to say Wolf for 300.00 per 1K. just make sure you clean your gun well afterwards...

Well, I can get the UMC at Bass Pro shops for $10/box, so that would be $500 for a case; only $50 more than that case of PMC. I didn't see Wolf for sale anywhere around here...

Thanks again, Chen.

Irons
03-20-2009, 02:08 PM
I like the TAPCO SAW grip on an AR, but I do wish it was just a bit thicker up-top. Have any of you guys come across a pistol grip that "feels" as good as the SAW, and has the length/no finger grooves, but is fatter around the top? Thanks.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 02:17 PM
I like the TAPCO SAW grip on an AR, but I do wish it was just a bit thicker up-top. Have any of you guys come across a pistol grip that "feels" as good as the SAW, and has the length/no finger grooves, but is fatter around the top? Thanks.

Try the Magpul MIAD grip; it's got removeable backstrap pieces of different thickness.
http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78_103&products_id=213

Irons
03-20-2009, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the reply, and link, but I really prefer something that comes in one piece. I like to keep it simple.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the reply, and link, but I really prefer something that comes in one piece. I like to keep it simple.

they have a one-piece option, also:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MOE-AR15-M16-Grip-BLACK-p/mag415%20-%20black.htm

others:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Ergo-SureGrip-Foliage-Green-p/pistol%20grip%20ergo%20sg%20fol%20green.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/G27-Command-Arms-Pistol-Grip-Black-p/pistol%20grip%20g27%20black.htm

Irons
03-20-2009, 03:03 PM
Man, I hate to be a nagging-nelly; obviously you've taken the time, and I appreciate that, but the grip they have seems to be no thicker, and it looks like less-so at the top, than the standard AR grip. Thanks for trying to help though.

California Joe
03-20-2009, 04:04 PM
Check out the Tangodown grip. I have one and I like the feel of it. It might work for you.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Check out the Tangodown grip. I have one and I like the feel of it. It might work for you.

hey CJ, did you ever post a pic of you AR? I might've missed it...

California Joe
03-20-2009, 09:27 PM
Nah, not yet, we have one working digital camera in the house and it's my daughters and she left it at a friends house and she never frigging remembers to bring it home.

JC0352
03-20-2009, 09:36 PM
Nah, not yet, we have one working digital camera in the house and it's my daughters and she left it at a friends house and she never frigging remembers to bring it home.

oh, gotcha. pics of the kayak & black rifle when you get it back!:)


have a great weekend everybody

Irons
03-20-2009, 10:11 PM
sorry, wrong thread.

HK in AK
03-21-2009, 07:00 PM
SMG Lee,

Have you had a chance to look at the ADDAX tactical GPU uppers? They are based off of the PWS short-stroke gas piston. The uppers look like they are in great condition and look pretty stout. I would like your comments please.

http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=137&idproduct=1013

cbreedon
03-21-2009, 07:25 PM
SMGLee
I just bought a LMT MRP Piston Carbine on your recommendation... It looks great, I'm out to the range tomorrow to see how it shoots. :-)

HK in AK
03-21-2009, 07:53 PM
SMGLee
I just bought a LMT MRP Piston Carbine on your recommendation... It looks great, I'm out to the range tomorrow to see how it shoots. :-)

cbreedon,

I look forward to your range report and photos please.....:)

SMGLee
03-23-2009, 01:19 PM
that is awesome, I bet you will love the MRP piston...

the final version of the piston will be at our shoot this weekend. painted FDE and with ACOG ECOS.....will post pictures and range report.

cbreedon
03-23-2009, 08:53 PM
I went out on Sunday.... I love the thing. (Yes if I could marry it, I would) Very solid, very easy to shoot and I really can't believe the clean up or lack of it. I have couple of other AR's and they take forever to clean, but the LMT was a breeze. If you have the cash this is the way to go as far as an AR.

Sorry I haven't taken any pics yet.

Laconian
04-04-2009, 11:09 AM
I played around with a LWRC M6A1, Paul Howe in 5.56 yesterday. Me likey. Very neat CQB rear sight, nice trigger, a real nice package, plus it came with enough bells & whistles to keep any gear queer happy.

JC0352
04-06-2009, 12:52 PM
I played around with a LWRC M6A1, Paul Howe in 5.56 yesterday. Me likey. Very neat CQB rear sight, nice trigger, a real nice package, plus it came with enough bells & whistles to keep any gear queer happy.

Those are really nice, Lac. I think Longshot has the A2 model... I was tempted to pick one up at a gun show awhile back, but I couldn't justify the cost with the amount of shooting I do.

oh, and I ended up replacing that safariland holster with a serpa; it just so much easier.

SMGLee
04-09-2009, 03:07 PM
I just bought this barrel ..

16inch mid length, mid weight.
cold hammer forged
M4 feed ramp
1:7 twist
Double Chrome lined

made by the same people that makes Noveske's hammer forged barrels

Just debating on how to build a gun around it...

Trying to Source a Mid Length KAC URX with a flip up front sight gas block, or a Rifle URX with a hidden gas block...

AAC 52T Blackout Flash hider
Surefire Scout light
The usual TangoDown SCAR Panels and QD VFG
and of course...EOTech, this time I will go with a Model 555.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN2760dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN2763dotjpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN2764dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/centurionarms/huge/DSCN2766dotjpg

JC0352
04-09-2009, 03:18 PM
I just bought this barrel
16inch mid length, mid weight.
cold hammer forged
M4 feed ramp
1:7 twist
Double Chrome lined

made by the same people that makes Noveske's hammer forged barrels

Just debating on how to build a gun around it...
Trying to Source a Mid Length KAC URX with a flip up front sight gas block, or a Rifle URX with a hidden gas block...

AAC 52T Blackout Flash hider
Surefire Scout light
The usual TangoDown SCAR Panels and QD VFG
and of course...EOTech, this time I will go with a Model 555.



Sounds like she'll be a beauty, Chen!

Hey what is your opinion on how mags should face when worn on your belt, on your weak side? Do you prefer rounds facing forward, or to the rear? If that doesn't make sense, I can clarify. I prefer mine facing to the rear; simple like drawing a pistol. I only ask because Costa does this weird thing on a video I saw. The rounds were pointed forward, so he grabbed it with his palm facing outboard, and then twisted the mag up and inward. The guys knows his way around an M4, and I was curious because you had recently did a class with him. Thanks

California Joe
04-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Just debating on how to build a gun around it...
Going to start with an upper, Colt carrier group, PRI Gas Buster. but that is about it so far....

Sounds like mine so far...:)

Hey Chen, did you ever get any more of those Tangodown mags? I'm still magless...

wildcat
04-09-2009, 03:29 PM
I need to pull my had out my pocket and get me another receiver, Chen thanks for all the good info in this thread. as for what I will make hmmmm, I still want to build a shorty, but I am thinking 20" barrel rifle.

SMGLee
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Sounds like she'll be a beauty, Chen!

Hey what is your opinion on how mags should face when worn on your belt, on your weak side? Do you prefer rounds facing forward, or to the rear? If that doesn't make sense, I can clarify. I prefer mine facing to the rear; simple like drawing a pistol. I only ask because Costa does this weird thing on a video I saw. The rounds were pointed forward, so he grabbed it with his palm facing outboard, and then twisted the mag up and inward. The guys knows his way around an M4, and I was curious because you had recently did a class with him. Thanks

This is a preference thing...

I always believe in wearing my mag on the support side...that being said...

The bullet facing back creats a nice beer can style grab, which is secure and makes for quick insert while a nice tug on the mag to ensure seating.

the bullet forward style is more handgun magazine loading style, with the index finger running along the front of the mag to ensure proper guiding of the mag into the mag well..

I prefer the bullet forward so my pistol and rifle magazine all load the same way...some like the beer can grab it is just up to you...



Sounds like mine so far...:)

Hey Chen, did you ever get any more of those Tangodown mags? I'm still magless...


I ordered 160 of those new Tangodown mags...yours are in that order....:)



I need to pull my had out my pocket and get me another receiver, Chen thanks for all the good info in this thread. as for what I will make hmmmm, I still want to build a shorty, but I am thinking 20" barrel rifle.

Try to look into a nice 18inch barrel gun...a bit shorter than a 20, but just as accurate and effective...

Scrim
04-10-2009, 09:59 AM
So weve had the LMT MRP Pistons on order since Jan, I believe. Ive been wanting one for ages especially after reading your excellent reviews SMGLee.
Well last week I finally got impatient and bought a 6920 and I was happy. Wouldnt you know it, 4 days later we get these plain white boxes with a simple "CQB PS16" printed on one end! You should have seen my face!LOL.
Well luckily I had not shot the Colt yet and was able to return it, and am now the happy owner of a LMT MRP Piston. Well, have to go touch it some more now....

SMGLee
04-10-2009, 01:59 PM
SMG Lee,

Have you had a chance to look at the ADDAX tactical GPU uppers? They are based off of the PWS short-stroke gas piston. The uppers look like they are in great condition and look pretty stout. I would like your comments please.

http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=137&idproduct=1013

sorry for the late reply.....

Matter of fact, Military Moron has a ADDEX set up, mid length piston with a hydralic buffer and PWS' muzzle brake, it shot very smooth, but I can not determine the piston performance because I really want to shoot the gun without the brake the hydralic buffer.

the overall build is nice and the PWS performance is on par with the LMT, PWS is basically the only system to move the weight of the piston rod from the barrel to the carrier.



So weve had the LMT MRP Pistons on order since Jan, I believe. Ive been wanting one for ages especially after reading your excellent reviews SMGLee.
Well last week I finally got impatient and bought a 6920 and I was happy. Wouldnt you know it, 4 days later we get these plain white boxes with a simple "CQB PS16" printed on one end! You should have seen my face!LOL.
Well luckily I had not shot the Colt yet and was able to return it, and am now the happy owner of a LMT MRP Piston. Well, have to go touch it some more now....

You will love your LMT Piston, it is one of the best shooting modular platform money can buy.

Scrim
04-12-2009, 10:23 AM
OOOPPS!! Due to my over enthusiasm and tendancy to break things, and an improperly set torque wrench, I sheared one of the barrel retaining bolts in half, leaving the threaded part inside the upper!:cantbeli:
After my initial heart attack, and the help of LMTs fantastic customer service (Ray) I was able to remove it from the upper quite easily, going at it from the back side with an Allen key and lots of pressure, going back out the way it went in. Ray put a bag of replacement bolts in the mail for my dumb ass.
Im sure none of you are as "challenged" as I am, but be carefull with that damn torque wrench!

cbreedon
04-12-2009, 12:14 PM
OOOPPS!! Due to my over enthusiasm and tendancy to break things, and an improperly set torque wrench, I sheared one of the barrel retaining bolts in half, leaving the threaded part inside the upper!:cantbeli:
After my initial heart attack, and the help of LMTs fantastic customer service (Ray) I was able to remove it from the upper quite easily, going at it from the back side with an Allen key and lots of pressure, going back out the way it went in. Ray put a bag of replacement bolts in the mail for my dumb ass.
Im sure none of you are as "challenged" as I am, but be carefull with that damn torque wrench!

I have one too and love it but I am just curious as to why you would need to remove the barrel? Just for the heck of it or does it need to be removed for some necessity that I am clueless about?

Seraphim
04-12-2009, 02:20 PM
I think he was installing the barrel...

Scrim
04-12-2009, 07:39 PM
I have one too and love it but I am just curious as to why you would need to remove the barrel? Just for the heck of it or does it need to be removed for some necessity that I am clueless about?
Nah, no real reason to remove it, except for a good cleaning maybe? I do plan on getting a 10 or 14 inch barrel at some point. One of the many reasons I like the LMT is the ability to quick(ish) change just the barrels, instead of the whole upper like most ARs, and the barrels are only like $300. So I just had to get in there and see how bad I could screw it up!
And yes, I was putting it back on when the mishap occured.

JC0352
04-12-2009, 11:29 PM
This is a preference thing...

I always believe in wearing my mag on the support side...that being said...

The bullet facing back creats a nice beer can style grab, which is secure and makes for quick insert while a nice tug on the mag to ensure seating.

the bullet forward style is more handgun magazine loading style, with the index finger running along the front of the mag to ensure proper guiding of the mag into the mag well..

I prefer the bullet forward so my pistol and rifle magazine all load the same way...some like the beer can grab it is just up to you...

Thanks for the input!

SMGLee
05-06-2009, 01:55 AM
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010063dotJPG

This is the latest updates to my trusty ole LMT MRP based on my registered pre California AWB Bushmaster lower.

LMT MRP CQB with 14.5inch barrel. The barrel has a pinned on Surefire MB556AR muzzle brake that also act as a sacrificial baffle for the Surefire suppressor that belongs to a C3 friend of mine. the pinned muzzle brake makes the barrel legal 16.5 inch length.

EOTech 553
Nightvision System Atilla IR laser
TangDown QD vertical grip and pistol grip
TangoDown SCAR rail panels
TangoDown rear Sling swivel mount
KAC front Sling swivel mount
Centurion Arms 416 Style front and rear sight
Surefire Scout light with 6P conversion bezel with aftermarket 250lumens LED lamp
PRI Gas Buster Charging handle
Young Manufacture Bolt Carrier group
LMT Ambi safety
Accuracy Speak Single stage match trigger
KAC ambi magazine release
LMT SOPMOD stock
Magpul trigger guard

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010074dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010071dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010072dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010064dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010068dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010070dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010067dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010066dotJPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010078dotjpg
IR laser under my PVS14
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1010079dotjpg
IR Laser with illuminator------bad camera work, the point and shoot just don't do the PVS14/IR laser combo justice

Hollis
05-06-2009, 09:42 AM
SMGLee, You could really show how great of a guy you are, by sending your poor Oregonian friend a few of those ARs, set up like that. p-)

Very nice rifle, thanks for the photos.

James
05-06-2009, 03:04 PM
That's a good looking rifle Chen. How does she shoot?

When I am home, one of my projects is to rebuild my own Bushmaster. The only real change I'll make is to install a low pro gas block, longer rail, and new front sight. It performs great now, but I am not so fond of a foot of barrel sticking out the end of a rifle.

If I was building from scratch, I think I'd most certainly invest in a Centurion barrel. Have you built something around yours yet?

Soldat_Américain
05-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Where do you get all the money for these...or does someone contract you...forgive if you've said it previously.

Laworkerbee
05-06-2009, 03:16 PM
Uuugghh - OPSEXY

Laworkerbee
05-06-2009, 03:16 PM
Meant to send a PM, not post.

jimmyboots
05-06-2009, 03:23 PM
hey, very nice rifle SMG.

Are those scar rail panels available to the general public?

How is that single stage trigger? Would you prefer that over a good 2 stage, like a geissele ssa?

SMGLee
05-06-2009, 04:46 PM
That's a good looking rifle Chen. How does she shoot?

When I am home, one of my projects is to rebuild my own Bushmaster. The only real change I'll make is to install a low pro gas block, longer rail, and new front sight. It performs great now, but I am not so fond of a foot of barrel sticking out the end of a rifle.

If I was building from scratch, I think I'd most certainly invest in a Centurion barrel. Have you built something around yours yet?

so far this gun shooting M855 with my EOTech 553 and a 3x magnifier can hang in there at 100trds with a 2-3MOA group.

When you are home, give me a shout, I can hook you up with a rifle length KAC URX rail system and a Centurion Arms 16.1 inch mid length barrel with their SPR receiver.

I returned my Centurion barrel, I am now waiting on the 16.1 inch light weight mid length hammer forged barrel to build it aound a KAC URX system.

Bro Jangles
05-06-2009, 04:47 PM
hey, very nice rifle SMG.

Are those scar rail panels available to the general public?

yeah i got them on mine,

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=scar+panel&Search.x=0&Search.y=0

SMGLee
05-06-2009, 04:50 PM
Where do you get all the money for these...or does someone contract you...forgive if you've said it previously.

The LMT MRP has been a on going cycle, I have had this current platform for approximately two and half years now. time from time, I am lucky to know a lot of industry friends so i get those parts at a discount.


hey, very nice rifle SMG.

Are those scar rail panels available to the general public?

How is that single stage trigger? Would you prefer that over a good 2 stage, like a geissele ssa?


The Tangodown SCAR panels are now available in both FDE, Foilage and black. like BJ mentioned, you can get them from Bravocompany

I like the single stage trigger a little better, it is personal perference, but for me it is more reliable and it makes for follow up shot slightly quicker.

I would recommend waiting a bit for the Colt competition trigger to be released soon. before, the competition trigger was only available if you buy a colt match rifle, and it is only available in large hole format. it is now available in a small pin or mil-spec pin size and will b e available on the market soon. it is cheaper, reliable, and have a very nice and crisp feel to it.. you don't want too light of a trigger for a combat rifle. my accuracy speak breaks at a clean 5lbs.

Soldat_Américain
05-06-2009, 05:02 PM
The LMT MRP has been a on going cycle, I have had this current platform for approximately two and half years now. time from time, I am lucky to know a lot of industry friends so i get those parts at a discount.


One of these days I may ask for some help building an AR, since you live in So Cal.

LineDoggie
05-07-2009, 03:58 PM
What is this, let children post day?

Scrim
05-08-2009, 11:56 PM
Started my modeling career today with Colt 6940 and HK GL.
https://policeguns.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=6458&osCsid=2q2144jn1ripouu4ii3bhmjvc2

cbreedon
05-09-2009, 11:35 AM
your're heading for the big time :-)

BrianT
05-16-2009, 12:12 PM
Thought I'd toss this out there, but is there a reason all these piston retrofit companies need to be installed by a certified whatever? Take the PWS for instance. It appears to me all you have to replace is your carrier key, gas tube, and gas block and put the system together. It's not rocket science or am I mistaken?

James
05-16-2009, 05:14 PM
I thnk it's because a lot of the kits that are advertised as "drop in conversions" aren't, and maybe because some of these companies want to cover themselves against claims of damage to the rest of a firearm even if it was bubba messing up the rifle.

derf
06-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Technical question:

Pistol grip assembly... Am i right in thinking that the bolt and threaded hole is standard across all AR-15 manufacturers?

http://www.ar15armory.com/Guides/pistolGripdotgif

Hollis
06-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Technical question:

Pistol grip assembly... Am i right in thinking that the bolt and threaded hole is standard across all AR-15 manufacturers?

http://www.ar15armory.com/Guides/pistolGripdotgif


If it is MilSpec............it is. Not knowing 100%, I would say it is standard. There are a lot of new manufacturers, so can not say 100%.

Bro Jangles
06-26-2009, 12:00 PM
If it is MilSpec............it is. Not knowing 100%, I would say it is standard. There are a lot of new manufacturers, so can not say 100%.
when i installed my MIAD grip, it told me i had to use the included screw. ive tightened it down, but the grip is still wiggly. im half considering taking it off and putting the A2 grip back on.

Pappy
06-26-2009, 12:29 PM
when i installed my MIAD grip, it told me i had to use the included screw. ive tightened it down, but the grip is still wiggly. im half considering taking it off and putting the A2 grip back on.

Different pistol grips can use different length bolts depending on the amount of plastic in the base of the grip. But if they included their own bolt, it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't tighten down properly. Hmm..

Scrim
06-26-2009, 08:19 PM
I just put a MIAD on my LMT, the bolt works fine, but I had to shave a bit off the inside of the grip to get it on there, just plastic so no big deal. Getting the trigger guard pin out however was a nightmare. LMT uses some tight ass pins, had the same problem with the rear sight when I replaced them with Trijicons. I was even using the correct tools!

SMGLee
06-29-2009, 08:28 PM
All thread size are the same, it is spec.

But a lot of the grip mfg include a separate screw due to the different interior grip chamber which might require a slightly different grip screws.

Bro Jangles
08-10-2009, 05:02 PM
Got a question for you AR gods.

i want to shorten my AR from a 20 inch to a 16. instead of getting a new upper(which i can not afford), i was thinking of keeping a my Rifle length rail system, and getting a new barrel, new gas tube and a low profile gas block and just have some like 4 inches of barrel stick out. how feasible is this?

Pappy
08-10-2009, 05:22 PM
Got a question for you AR gods.

i want to shorten my AR from a 20 inch to a 16. instead of getting a new upper(which i can not afford), i was thinking of keeping a my Rifle length rail system, and getting a new barrel, new gas tube and a low profile gas block and just have some like 4 inches of barrel stick out. how feasible is this?

It's very feasible. I'd recommend looking into mid-length gas systems and barrels. Plus, make sure to gauge your everything after you do this. You may also need to change your buffer for optimal performance, but I'm not sure on that.

Bro Jangles
08-10-2009, 09:18 PM
It's very feasible. I'd recommend looking into mid-length gas systems and barrels. Plus, make sure to gauge your everything after you do this. You may also need to change your buffer for optimal performance, but I'm not sure on that.
thanks i will lok into it, Work would be done by a gunsmith as i have to skills/tools.

as for the Buffer i am running a collapsable M4 buffer tube right now.

Bro Jangles
08-10-2009, 09:38 PM
ok, anyone know a good(cheap) place to pick up a barrel? Brownells is sold out, and im not having luck finding others.

jagermeister
08-10-2009, 10:05 PM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com
http://www.rainierarms.com/
http://www.adcofirearms.com/


I would say get a white oak.

Bro Jangles
08-10-2009, 10:59 PM
thanks, look into them.

here is a concept of what i was thinking,
before
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/bravo-juliet/DSC02164dotjpg
after
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/bravo-juliet/newardotjpg

jagermeister
08-10-2009, 11:00 PM
I have to take a picture your after picture is identical to the stick im running right now.

Bro Jangles
08-10-2009, 11:03 PM
I have to take a picture your after picture is identical to the stick im running right now.
love to see it!

SMGLee
08-26-2009, 07:48 PM
love to see it!

That is almost similar to some of those special CQB-R uppers i saw at some can't mention the name place.....

12.5inch barrel with mid length URX, pinned gas block.

SMGLee
08-26-2009, 07:49 PM
ok, anyone know a good(cheap) place to pick up a barrel? Brownells is sold out, and im not having luck finding others.

I have a feeling that Colt will start selling parts.....

Bro Jangles
08-26-2009, 07:51 PM
I have a feeling that Colt will start selling parts.....
direct from colt?

Hispeed1
09-01-2009, 12:18 PM
That is almost similar to some of those special CQB-R uppers i saw at some can't mention the name place...
12.5inch barrel with mid length URX, pinned gas block.

You know when you say that it makes us all want to see them, lol!

@ BravoJ: was looking at what you typed below about getting your rifle shorter, another idea is to get it down to a 14.5" barrel then permanently attach a suppressor flash hider adapter like in your illustration to get it to 16".

SMGLee
09-03-2009, 01:30 PM
direct from colt?

Bugs bunny voice: Ehh... could be!

Hispeed1
09-04-2009, 01:17 PM
Bugs bunny voice: Ehh... could be!

Hope they'll be affordable : (

athrun1211
09-19-2009, 10:36 AM
i like this weapon,it looks good~

hairydavey
09-25-2009, 04:56 AM
Posted this comment in another thread that seems to be dying, hoping one of you guys can help satisfy my curiosity as I've been looking for info on this for years!

When I was serving in the British Army at one point I used an M16 A2 that was a bit of an oddity. Colt stamped, with an A1 style upper but with the groove in the carry handle as you would find on an A2 instead of the U shaped cut from the A1. Rear sights were A1 leaf type. No case deflector, A2 forward assist and the markings on the magazine well were "MODEL 02", not M16A2. Also it was auto not burst. Anyone shed some light on this one?

gaijinsamurai
09-25-2009, 05:08 AM
ok, anyone know a good(cheap) place to pick up a barrel? Brownells is sold out, and im not having luck finding others.

Did you try AR15.com's Equipment Exchange? It has been a good source for me.

Stridsvagn
10-31-2009, 01:09 PM
Wait...how? I thought HK416s where unable to be had for civilians.

I dont live in america and I have never been but I am sure if you have the correct liscense, you can buy a civillian legal AR-15/CAR-15/M-16/4/HK416 series assault rifle. I imagine you have a restriction like "it must not be fully automatic, must have singleshot and burst in place of auto" or something like that...

Bro Jangles
10-31-2009, 01:57 PM
I dont live in america and I have never been but I am sure if you have the correct liscense, you can buy a civillian legal AR-15/CAR-15/M-16/4/HK416 series assault rifle. I imagine you have a restriction like "it must not be fully automatic, must have singleshot and burst in place of auto" or something like that...
. no liscenses, but anyone can own a semi auto rifle, and they did release a few 416 uppers in the US. For Full auto (burst included) it has to be made before 1986 and you have to pay a 200 dollar tax on it.

gaijinsamurai
01-13-2010, 09:25 PM
I have a feeling that Colt will start selling parts.....

That would be cool.

SMGLee
02-12-2010, 01:53 PM
Centurion Arms build CQB-R for a local Southern California PD SWAT team.

Centurion Arms 12.5inch carbine length hammer forged barrel.
double chrome lined, 1:7 twist, M4 feed ramp, 20k round service life, 1 MOA accuracy, carbine gas
Daniel Defense 10" Lite Rail
Centurion Arms low profile gas block (pinned)
Centurion Arms HK style irons sights
Centurion Arms MPI Bolt carrier group and charging handle
EOTech XPS
ADM EOTech QD mount
Surefire Scout light
Tangodown Rail panels
Vltor iMOd stock

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1040301dotjpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/P1040301dotjpg

TacoDelRio
02-13-2010, 04:40 AM
Pretty cool.

custodes
02-13-2010, 12:38 PM
Brief is beautiful.

Louis
02-14-2010, 06:56 PM
Posted this comment in another thread that seems to be dying, hoping one of you guys can help satisfy my curiosity as I've been looking for info on this for years!

When I was serving in the British Army at one point I used an M16 A2 that was a bit of an oddity. Colt stamped, with an A1 style upper but with the groove in the carry handle as you would find on an A2 instead of the U shaped cut from the A1. Rear sights were A1 leaf type. No case deflector, A2 forward assist and the markings on the magazine well were "MODEL 02", not M16A2. Also it was auto not burst. Anyone shed some light on this one?

You sure it wasnt a Diemaco? i heard the brits used them

Scrim
02-24-2010, 08:36 AM
In partnership with Colt our new lightweight LE Patrol Carbine, the 6720 is finally available. Thought some of you may find this of interest.
http://colt6720.com/index.php/home

JC0352
03-09-2010, 09:48 AM
Anyone have any tips on changing out the gas ring on the bolt? Or do I even need to worry about replacing it yet? The bolt is really loose in the carrier; looser than any bcg on the M16s I've been issued through the years. I've still never had any ftf malfunctions, but joe blow at the gun store said it should be replaced.

Thanks

Hawkeye4077
03-10-2010, 08:49 AM
Can someone explain the different lengths of handguards? I'm a total rifle n00b looking to make my first purchase in the near future.

My understanding is that full-length is for the 16in barrels, mid-length for the 14.5's, and carbine-length for the 10.3's. Is this correct?

Skutatos
03-10-2010, 08:59 AM
Can someone explain the different lengths of handguards? I'm a total rifle n00b looking to make my first purchase in the near future.

My understanding is that full-length is for the 16in barrels, mid-length for the 14.5's, and carbine-length for the 10.3's. Is this correct?

16" is the minimum allowed length for a rifle barrel. A full length AR barrel would be 20". I think the difference between the "carbine" and mid-length has to do with the location of the front sight, with the front sight being further forward on a mid-length but both with a 16". I may be wrong however, so if a AR guy could help him, please do.

Sir Zach of R.
03-10-2010, 10:45 AM
The minimum legal barrel length is 16" without ATF approval. You can buy 16" barreled uppers or full ARs with either a carbine length gas system (7") or mid-length (9").

JC0352
03-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Can someone explain the different lengths of handguards? I'm a total rifle n00b looking to make my first purchase in the near future.

My understanding is that full-length is for the 16in barrels, mid-length for the 14.5's, and carbine-length for the 10.3's. Is this correct?
The handguard length could or could not matter, depending on the gas system. Any barrel over 16" (18 & 20") usually has a rifle length gas system. 16" barrels can have a carbine length gas system, but mid length are becoming quite popular; then you have the KAC SR15 which has a slightly longer than mid length system. Some companies are now offering 14.5" barrels with a midlength, but you'll normally see a carbine length gas system on any barrel 14.5" or shorter. If your rifle has a low profile gas block that could fit underneath a free float handguard, you could install any length handguard you wanted. If a rifle has a standard front sight/gas block, you would need 7" handguards if it is carbine length to fit between the receiver and the front sight post, or 9" handguards for a middy. I think rifle length is 12", but not sure. There are some rails that have a cutout for the front sight, so you can have a rail that's longer even with the standard front sight. Many, many options out there.

If I was to do it over again, I would've started out with this for my first rifle: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm
16" hammer forged barrel with mid length gas system.

JC0352
03-10-2010, 11:02 AM
bump...............................

Anyone have any tips on changing out the gas ring on the bolt? Or do I even need to worry about replacing it yet? The bolt is really loose in the carrier; looser than any bcg on the M16s I've been issued through the years. I've still never had any ftf malfunctions, but joe blow at the gun store said it should be replaced.

Thanks

James
03-10-2010, 04:52 PM
bump...............................

When in doubt, change them, Gas rings are very inexpensive and are one of the major areas of wear on the bolt. I took an armorer's course a couple of years ago, and I seem to remember that you just need to pull the old ones off and discard them and press the new ones on around that narrow part of the bolt. Don't take my word for it though, someone might know more.

JC0352
03-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Thanks, James. That makes sense & sounds simple enough

hairydavey
04-08-2010, 09:25 AM
You sure it wasnt a Diemaco? i heard the brits used them

Definitely wasn't a Diemaco. Had Colt markings on it, clear as day inc globe and prancing horse. Model 02 was stamped on it clearly as well, not A2.

Louis
04-13-2010, 05:30 AM
Well how very odd, please do let us know what its is if you find out

hairydavey
04-13-2010, 09:21 AM
Dying to find out what model it was too. Only thing I can think of is that it must have been a very early transitional M16 before they gave it the A2 designation due to the "Model 2" marking and being auto not burst and marked as such. I've handled A2 rilfles in their standard configuration as well, and I'm certain it wasn't a parts gun due to the groove in the carry handle being the same as an A2 and not the "U" type groove as a normal A1 upper. Very odd, and never seen one since. I'll consider myself lucky to have used it!

Louis
04-14-2010, 04:07 AM
yeah lucky you! nothing useful appears if you google colt model 2 or any variations of that either

vincentky
08-25-2010, 08:31 PM
best rifle ever love shooting it

Bro Jangles
08-26-2010, 02:16 AM
Diamaco is now Colt Canada.

Goblin-Hawk
09-02-2010, 02:58 PM
Guys..I just wanted to bring something up that was kind of bothering me. Do you not find that guns are very good at start? I realise that some adjustments have to be made but I often think that too many people are now over-compensating for poor marksmanship/low familiarity with weapon with fancy gadgets and the like and in the end they are probably less efficient for shooting. Sometimes simplicity is best, no?

Please don't think I am insulting..just wondering.
Thanks

gaijinsamurai
09-02-2010, 03:39 PM
^
Absolutely. Especially, since the introduction of piccatiny railed handguards, a lot of people seem to think they need everything they've seen in the latest edition of SWAT magazine.

The best thing an AR owner can buy is plenty of practice ammo and a class or two.

Bro Jangles
09-02-2010, 04:14 PM
My AR has a full rail system, but nothing but Irons right now. in my eyes, can be more of a waste of money.

ayanami_tard
10-26-2010, 02:52 AM
one question

if one want to change the barrel of M16A1 with barrel of M16A2,does it need to change the entire upper receiver?

thanks in advance