Travelling speed

[Vorian]

How fast could a medieval or ancient army travel? If anyone has any info at all, I would appreciate it.
Please be as specific you can (trained or untrained, with roads or not rtc)

[James]

I think the Romans managed about 30 miles/50 km a day on foot, and each man carried about 60 - 70 pounds of gear.

When I was in the military I read an old book titled "The Soldiers Load and the Mobility of a Nation". I believe it was written shortly after WWII or Korea. The author held the position (and I agree with him) that from the time of ancient Rome until the mid 20th century, the average soldier could be expected to carry around 50 pounds and walk 30 miles a day, every day, indefinitely. You can increase the weight, distance, or both, but the effort can not be sustained as long. I think his position was that this held true to the Romans, the armies of Medieval Europe, 18th and 19th Century Europe/Russia/America, right on into the 20th century.

If I can find a reference or a link I'll post it here too.

[Vorian]

Thank you very much James..if you do find the link it will be really helpful

[James]

Thank you very much James..if you do find the link it will be really helpful

I was able to find all sorts of stuff about the weight soldiers carry, but nothing that went into any detail about distance. I can tell you that in the 1990s era USMC, infantrymen could move 30+ miles a day on foot with 70+ pounds. That is based on personal experience ;).

I will continue searching for references, and I will post them if I find them.

[packetloss]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1992/EWL.htm

Seems to be a similar document with historical perspectives.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200401/ai_n9347435/pg_1

Soldier load study

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Harold Godwinson marched from York to Hastings. Approximately 260 miles.

Battle of Stamford Bridge took place on the 25th of September.

Battle of Hastings took place on the 14th of October.

He finally started his march on the 3rd of October reaching Hastings on the 13th. 260 miles in 11 days. Now whilst doing this he was strengthening his army at the same time. From my calculations he marched 26.6 miles using the distance from York to Hastings provided by Google Earth.

Not bad at all considering we are talking about an army not walking on modern roads but generally only a track, organizing an army and logistics at the same, let alone an army which also had a fight on the 25th.

They also nearly defeated the Normans as well.

Impressive.

[Richard W]

The ancient warfare expert Peter Connolly wrote a book titled Greece and Rome at War wherein your question is addressed in several places. It appears that an ancient army normally moved at a rate of about 12 to 20 miles a day. Connolly also cites examples, as with Alexander operating in present day Afghanistan, where picked units covered about 50-miles in 24-hours in a forced march.

Friends of mine who are military historians tell me that the ancients marched at about the same speeds as found in AR 21 - 18 (Foot Marches) as follows. (Please note that a Roman mile [a thousand double paces] is different from a modern statute mile.)

2.5 MPH day on road

2 MPH night on road

1.5 MPH day cross country

1 MPH night cross country

Each of the above standards is with a 10-minute break every hour. So a unit which marches on a road during daylight at 3 MPH but with a 10-minute break only covers 2.5 miles/hour.

A trained, fit unit can march for 8-hours (20 miles) a day with the individual soldiers carrying about 1/3 of their body weight day after day without too many stragglers or causing injury.

A fit, trained unit marching on a road could cover about 50-miles in 24-hours on a forced march. A forced march is when the 10-minute breaks are eliminated or the unit marches for more than 8-hours. The rate of march is not increased for a forced march.

I understand that one of the reasons both the WWII German Army and the Republican Roman Army used pony carts was in an attempt to keep the marchers' carry weight down to about 1/3 of their body weight.

I hope the above helps your research.

Regards

Richard W.

[Eoin666]

Harold Godwinson marched from York to Hastings. Approximately 260 miles.

Battle of Stamford Bridge took place on the 25th of September.

Battle of Hastings took place on the 14th of October.

He finally started his march on the 3rd of October reaching Hastings on the 13th. 260 miles in 11 days. Now whilst doing this he was strengthening his army at the same time. From my calculations he marched 26.6 miles using the distance from York to Hastings provided by Google Earth.

Not bad at all considering we are talking about an army not walking on modern roads but generally only a track, organizing an army and logistics at the same, let alone an army which also had a fight on the 25th.

They also nearly defeated the Normans as well.

Impressive.

Interesting, a true feat of logistics.....although Harold had had to stand-down most of the Fyrd (a sort of territorial militia) on the grounds that they needed to return to gather in the harvest or the population would starve, and on the return south to Hastings the army was severely depleted due to the losses suffered at Stamford Bridge, involving many of the elite huscarls and with William the Bastard landing at Pevensey, Harold couldn't wait for the reinforcements from his northern earls. The army that arrived at Hastings, did so in dribs-and-drabs thoroughout the day of the battle. Interesting side note was that, had Harold waited and blocked the road to London instead of having to defend his own earldom of Wessex which William was torching, or had Harold managed to fight on until dark when he would have received reinforcements the following day, it's highly likely that William would have had to concede or flee with all the what-if's in subsequent European history

[Eoin666]

A Mongol army was a medieval force but with modern logistical back up, it would travel "at least 40 miles a day, or twice the speed of its enemies" (the Mongols and the West). Through the use of semaphore and couriers, different fronts, often hundreds of miles apart could be intricately co-ordinated

[Richard W]

Eoin666:

Do you know anything about the issue of grazing or feeding the horses of cavalry army on the march during the winter? I was reading a biography of Geronimo by Adams and Camp's notes on the Custer fight as well as some other works on the Indian wars. The Indians appeared to have been immobilized during the winter there being no grass for the ponies to graze upon. The Army successfully attacked the immobilized Indian villages The Army used small 60-man infantry companies supported by mules. The infantry columns could move across the plains during the winter while the pony mounted Indians could not move. The rate of march for the infantry during winter appeared to have dropped only from 2.5 MPH to 2 MPH.

Thank you

Richard W.

[Eoin666]

Eoin666:

Do you know anything about the issue of grazing or feeding the horses of cavalry army on the march during the winter? I was reading a biography of Geronimo by Adams and Camp's notes on the Custer fight as well as some other works on the Indian wars. The Indians appeared to have been immobilized during the winter there being no grass for the ponies to graze upon. The Army successfully attacked the immobilized Indian villages The Army used small 60-man infantry companies supported by mules. The infantry columns could move across the plains during the winter while the pony mounted Indians could not move. The rate of march for the infantry during winter appeared to have dropped only from 2.5 MPH to 2 MPH.

Thank you

Richard W.

Hi Richard

That's very interesting....the native american warriors were also resticted by having to hunt and provide for their families over winter, not being a standing army, whereas the US cavalry had freedom of movement throughout their campaigning season.

I'm no expert on this I'm afraid, but what I do know is that during the Mongol invasions of Syria by Hulegu, one reason cited for their lack of success and having to withdraw northwards into what is now Kurdistan and northern Iran after the battle of Ain-Jalut was lack of grazing (as well as civil war with the Golden Horde!), Mongol horses were almost purely grass fed not grain fed as were the Mamluke cavalry. However, most Mongol offensives also took place in winter due to the frozen ground and rivers being easier to traverse. Mongol ponies were also very hardy and similar to reindeer in that they can dig through ice and snow to find suitable grazing, though I'm guessing with their expertise in logistics they must've provided an organised fodder supply alongside.

[Richard W]

Thank you for the information

[Vorian]

Richard, Eoin666 your info was really helpful. Thank you very much.