Queen Elizabeth must die or abdicate for Australia to become a republic

[dave81]

Interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080128/wl_canada_nm/canada_australia_republic_col_1

[IraGlacialis]

After reading the article, I see how misconstrued that phrase can be interpreted.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

"Queen Elizabeth must die or abdicate for Australia to become a republic"

Vivat Regina!

[Kilgor]

Cause no one wants charles fugly face on our money...

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

If we become a republic I'm going to the UK and claiming political asylum. Like **** do I want to live under a republican government.

Besides that. The current system works and works ****ing well. Arguably the most successful form of democracy going.

And there is also the little factor that a government can get dismissed by the Queen or Governor General (depends if the queen is in country) if they get out of line and go to far. IE Whitlam.

All these scumbags want to do is entrench their own power base.

**** the republic

[LRPV]

Long Live the Republic!!!


It's all about which type of Republican system Minnie...

Turnbull would have succeeded if he hadn't tried to pursue a system where-by the unwashed were not able to determine the President.

Anyway....weren't you trying to emigrate to Canada??????p-)

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Turnbull only jumped on the bandwagon because it was his company doing all the business dealings of the Republican Movement thus making money. Cockhead.

[LRPV]

Be nice Minnie, no need to get upset, loosen your corset and take a breath...:)

[muck]

Cause no one wants charles fugly face on our money...
roflLMAO, best comment for a long time.

[Kilgor]

Most Australian's are in favour of a republic, Howard did his best to poison the result and history was written.

We have a good global standing and proud enough country not to belong to Mother Fcking England any more.

[Bushranger]

Turnbull is an Idiot some 1 tell him to get back in his hole. we can just leave things the way they are thanks very much.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

****ing treasonous scum.

:)

[Calanen]

Most Australian's are in favour of a republic, Howard did his best to poison the result and history was written.

We have a good global standing and proud enough country not to belong to Mother Fcking England any more.

You must measure what you may gain, by what you may lose. For me its not about England, its about us.

The constitution was written before 10 second sound bytes. Before the media editorials telling the public what to think, before the shrieks of talkback radio. It is a very well written and well considered document that underpins all of our laws. If we open that up for revision now, not for substantive reasons, but for cosmetic ones - there is a real risk it will be greatly rewritten with modern stupidity.

Every interest group, cause, person with a bee in their bonnet will have all sorts of things to include in the new constitution. There is a good chance that the excellent document that has given us so much good stability in Australia since 1901, will be ripped up and replaced with some politically correct and draconian drivel.

What do we gain - the ability to say, absolutely no connection with England, even though there has not really been any for about 25 years. Why this particularly matters, other than for bragging rights in bars, who knows.

What we might lose - our political stability, our legal stability, and risk creating the incredibly stupid legal changes that are likely to follow after any media driven debate.

I think we should leave the constitution alone, because the media and the public in the modern world, are incapable of permitting the drafting of the same sort of sensible and well written constitution created and implemented in 1901.

[Kilgor]

We also need to change the flag, your avatar will do nicely ;)

[Calanen]

We also need to change the flag, your avatar will do nicely ;)

I agree on that point. Its the only 'true' Australian flag that we have.

[Opening Batsman]

If we open that up for revision now, not for substantive reasons, but for cosmetic ones - there is a real risk it will be greatly rewritten with modern stupidity.
That exactly what I'm worried about. From what I can tell, a huge number of republicans have absolutely no good reasons for wanting to become a republic. The argument rarely extends beyond "stick it up the pommies". We can do that on the ****ing cricket field. Pisses me off no end.

We also need to change the flag, your avatar will do nicely ;)
When that happens, I'm getting the old one tattooed on me.

[T3ngu]

That exactly what I'm worried about. From what I can tell, a huge number of republicans have absolutely no good reasons for wanting to become a republic. The argument rarely extends beyond "stick it up the pommies". We can do that on the ****ing cricket field. Pisses me off no end.




Well said Auzzzie and Calanen.


Most Australian's are in favour of a republic, Howard did his best to poison the result and history was written.

We have a good global standing and proud enough country not to belong to Mother Fcking England any more.

Kilgor it is true we have good global standing, however based on discussions with people I know, the republic debate seems to be split in the community, i dont really tink most australians are in favour of a republic. Being true Australians, we are mostly fearful of changing things. But IMHO if it is not broke don't fix it.

[Aussie Sapper]

When that happens, I'm getting the old one tattooed on me.

I am with you 100% on that mate. I will be 2nd in line right behind you.

Too many brave men and women have made the ultimate sacrifice for OUR flag, and to talk of changing it belittles their memory.

I am getting a bit hot now, and I think that I had better end this reply now before I write something that may offend somebody, and I end up copping an infraction.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I agree on that point. Its the only 'true' Australian flag that we have.

I disagree. The people of the Eureka Stockade are treasonous scum who should have been found guilty for leading an armed rebellion against the Crown.

Not hero's but traitors.

[Aussie Sapper]

I disagree. The people of the Eureka Stockade are treasonous scum who should have been found guilty for leading an armed rebellion against the Crown.

Not hero's but traitors.

Too right mate :)

[ren0312]

You must measure what you may gain, by what you may lose. For me its not about England, its about us.

The constitution was written before 10 second sound bytes. Before the media editorials telling the public what to think, before the shrieks of talkback radio. It is a very well written and well considered document that underpins all of our laws. If we open that up for revision now, not for substantive reasons, but for cosmetic ones - there is a real risk it will be greatly rewritten with modern stupidity.

Every interest group, cause, person with a bee in their bonnet will have all sorts of things to include in the new constitution. There is a good chance that the excellent document that has given us so much good stability in Australia since 1901, will be ripped up and replaced with some politically correct and draconian drivel.

What do we gain - the ability to say, absolutely no connection with England, even though there has not really been any for about 25 years. Why this particularly matters, other than for bragging rights in bars, who knows.

What we might lose - our political stability, our legal stability, and risk creating the incredibly stupid legal changes that are likely to follow after any media driven debate.

I think we should leave the constitution alone, because the media and the public in the modern world, are incapable of permitting the drafting of the same sort of sensible and well written constitution created and implemented in 1901.

If what you are saying is true, then that certainly undermines the whole basis of Western democracy does it not?

[Waltzing_Matilda]

When that happens, I'm getting the old one tattooed on me.

wait...what...on one or your arms? ;)

[Calanen]

I am with you 100% on that mate. I will be 2nd in line right behind you.

Too many brave men and women have made the ultimate sacrifice for OUR flag, and to talk of changing it belittles their memory.



Not in any way to diminish the sacrifices of our service personnel, but, the great ANZAC legacy of WW1 and WW2 has precious little to do with the current flag.

We were part of Commonwealth forces in WW2 and WW1. Not a lot of Australian flags waving around.

The flag existed during WW2, but the blue ensign was only flown on Commonwealth government buildings. One blue ensign was raked with gunfire and shrapnel during the bombing of Government House in Darwin during WW2, but the blue ensign of course, was on a government building rather than being carried into battle.

The red ensign was the civilian flag, and the troops on land in both WW1 and WW2 officially carried neither. The navy flew the white ensign.

Being designated 'ensigns' the flags were not even flags until 1953. The Union Jack was the flag of empire until that time.

Yes on Korea and Vietnam (and more recently) but I dont think anyone made the ultimate sacrifice for the flag itself, but for what it stands for now, being this country.

Indeed from the time of the Boer war up until now, the flag changed a number of times, we only become a country in 1901, and the flag was only made official in 1951 when King George approved the Blue Ensign as Australia's flag. It was then made our flag in 1953 when the Commonwealth government passed the legislation enacting King George's proclomation.

The flag that was kept by the prisoners in Changi, and secreted away until after the war was in fact a red ensign, not the blue ensign. That flag was far more common at the time.

So I think people tend to get a bit carried away about the current Australian flag, and also believe that their grandfathers carried it into successive battle charges in the Somme, or waved the current Australian flag around on the Kokoda trail. When, it was very unlikely that anything of the kind occurred.

I don't mind the flag being changed as long as it is changed to the Eureka flag, or something similar. Changing flags wont change our laws, and does not really threaten our stability. And when you look at our history, we have had a lot of different flags.

[Calanen]

If what you are saying is true, then that certainly undermines the whole basis of Western democracy does it not?

What will undermine the whole basis of Australia's western democracy is messing about with the constitution.

[Opening Batsman]

I am with you 100% on that mate. I will be 2nd in line right behind you.

Too many brave men and women have made the ultimate sacrifice for OUR flag, and to talk of changing it belittles their memory.

I am getting a bit hot now, and I think that I had better end this reply now before I write something that may offend somebody, and I end up copping an infraction.

Too right, but unfortunately I think it is inevitable. Well us being a republic is inevitable, we can only wait and see if the flag is going to change with that though. From my observations, I'm one of very few among my generation who support the monarchy.


wait...what...on one or your arms? ;)

Oh that was harsh! Ask Diggles, he can vouch for the tree trunk thickness of my arms today.

[Calanen]

I disagree. The people of the Eureka Stockade are treasonous scum who should have been found guilty for leading an armed rebellion against the Crown.

Not hero's but traitors.

That's one view. But you have to push people pretty hard before they rebel with armed force. It was the whole no taxation without representation thing, when punitive mining licenses were sought, and heavy penalties exacted for those without them.

The same argument both could be and was, made about the rebels in America during the American revolution.

An inquiry after this all took place was greatly critical of the way it was handled and there was a huge public outcry about it.

Interestingly, a group of well armed Americans called the Independent California Rangers left the stockade to search for the British troops, and it was this opportunity that the British took to attack. The outcome might have been different had the Rangers remained there.

The flag was the first where we said 'Enough' to England, and stood firm. I see joining with Al Quada as treason. I view this uprising in a very different light. The government came after them with armed force, because they wanted the mining license fees. That was wrong. This, I see as an abberation confined to its times and particular circumstances.

Btw Min, u wont get out of a labor party meeting alive if you say the stockaders are traitorous scum. The CFMEU flies the stockade flag.

[digrar]

Oh that was harsh! Ask Diggles, he can vouch for the tree trunk thickness of my arms today.

Tree trunk? Sapling....

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Btw Min, u wont get out of a labor party meeting alive if you say the stockaders are traitorous scum. The CFMEU flies the stockade flag.

Been down that road.......with hilarious results.

:)

[oldsoak]

Most Australian's are in favour of a republic, Howard did his best to poison the result and history was written.

We have a good global standing and proud enough country not to belong to Mother Fcking England any more.

- strike the insult fella. we dont call you roo rooters, so drop it.

[Ballistic]

Long Live the Queen.

That is all.

[SrB-23Q]

how about just the southern cross as the flag??
i rekon that would be pretty good with the current blue background

[oldsoak]

If we become a republic I'm going to the UK and claiming political asylum. Like **** do I want to live under a republican government.

Besides that. The current system works and works ****ing well. Arguably the most successful form of democracy going.

And there is also the little factor that a government can get dismissed by the Queen or Governor General (depends if the queen is in country) if they get out of line and go to far. IE Whitlam.

All these scumbags want to do is entrench their own power base.

**** the republic


@ Min, I hate to say this about my own, but most of us over here dont deserve the loyalty shown to us by the Canucks and the Southern Hemisphericals. In fact, I reckon half of the ignorant tw*ts we claim to educate couldnt even name the capital of Australia, much less place it with any accuracy on a map. They'll tell you the usual sh*t about transportation of prisoners, but f*ck all about the other migrants to Oz from here, and how we got bailed out in two wars. Most of us would sadly dissapoint mate, and it pains me to say it.
About Eureka stockade. Yet another example of how a simple situation got out of hand and was mismanaged. We could have heard 'em out, reached an agreement and not a shot fired or any bloke killed. Like the early colonial Americans, their quarrel was not with the Royalty, but with the pox poor administration with little idea of the ground or the sensitivities.
I'd hate to see the Aussies hang up the old flag, but I cant see us doing anything that would make 'em feel we deserved the top right hand corner.
:-( . There, I said it.

[cbreedon]

I think I would tend to agree with some of the posts here that say if it ain't broken don't fix it, but I have a comment to Minardiau. Isn't being a Socialist Worker contra to a hereditary monarchy? Are you taking the mick in your profile? Socialist Monarchist is a contradiction, is it not?

[rgjbloke]

Who's in charge of Australia in my view is a matter for Australians. As an ordinary born and bred Englishman, its not an issue I would concern myself with and its not a matter that I think any of my friends would loose any sleep over whether the Queen has anything to do with our antipodean friends.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

What I'd like to see is for the heir to the thrown to be our GG and given the title of "Duke of Australia" or "Prince of Australia" and stay here until ascending the thrown.

[Ubar]

What I'd like to see is for the heir to the thrown to be our GG and given the title of "Duke of Australia" or "Prince of Australia" and stay here until ascending the thrown.

His wife is more like a gee-gee ;)

[wotsnext]

What I'd like to see is for the heir to the thrown to be our GG and given the title of "Duke of Australia" or "Prince of Australia" and stay here until ascending the thrown.
Hey.......He is already the Prince of Wales :roll:

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Yeah well Duke would be cool to. Besides he can be Prince of more then one country you know .

[Calanen]

What I'd like to see is for the heir to the thrown to be our GG and given the title of "Duke of Australia" or "Prince of Australia" and stay here until ascending the thrown.

Are you just bucking for the title of Queens Champion?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

No.

I'm just a staunch royalist

[oldsoak]

Who's in charge of Australia in my view is a matter for Australians. As an ordinary born and bred Englishman, its not an issue I would concern myself with and its not a matter that I think any of my friends would loose any sleep over whether the Queen has anything to do with our antipodean friends.

- Its not a question of who is in charge - the Ozzies are after all in charge of Oz. Its just that the relationship has degenerated to the point where both sides seem pretty apathetic about each other, which personally I find pretty sad. I can quite easily see the time when would we see each other in the same context as we would see Germans or Thais, with the special relationship with the US far eclipsing anything we have with Oz, or Nz or Canada.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I don't think we are apathetic. I think it's more due to the lack of interest displayed by the Royals/British government.

On the Australian side what happens in the UK is still featured pretty prominently in news media, sport and culture. British history is taught in schools and our version of the BBC still plays a hell of a lot of British content. We will still get the occasion where something has happened in the UK and it's front page news. Look at a British source and it hardly rates a mention.

So basically it's from the Australian point of view that the UK is no holding up their part of the bargain.


And there is also the Peter Andre and Kylie factor which does not do Australia any favours :)

[oldsoak]

I don't think we are apathetic. I think it's more due to the lack of interest displayed by the Royals/British government.

On the Australian side what happens in the UK is still featured pretty prominently in news media, sport and culture. British history is taught in schools and our version of the BBC still plays a hell of a lot of British content. We will still get the occasion where something has happened in the UK and it's front page news. Look at a British source and it hardly rates a mention.

So basically it's from the Australian point of view that the UK is no holding up their part of the bargain

And there is also the Peter Andre and Kylie factor which does not do Australia any favours :)


- 'bout the long and short of it. Thats why I said we dont deserve the interest. We could have done so much to improve things - give every Aussie serviceman who served for a day in blighty citizenship after WWII, provided support during the Vietnam war ( say get the wounded back on Brit flights, provided non-combatant medical teams etc ), got Prince Charlie a night out in Port Headland :-P. But no, we shut them out with the EEC, set off an A bomb in country etc - we're not that bright with friends attimes.

[rgjbloke]

oldsoak said


Its not a question of who is in charge - the Ozzies are after all in charge of Oz. Its just that the relationship has degenerated to the point where both sides seem pretty apathetic about each other, which personally I find pretty sad. I can quite easily see the time when would we see each other in the same context as we would see Germans or Thais, with the special relationship with the US far eclipsing anything we have with Oz, or Nz or Canada.I accept your point. Constitutionally Australians of course are in charge of Australia. The Queen is though Head of State and that was what I was alluding to in my previous post. That is a matter for Australians to decide, whether they want to continue the present constitutional arrangement or change it for something else.