Lawmaker: Underage Soldiers Should Be Able To Drink

[ronnieraygun]

COLUMBIA, S.C. --
A South Carolina lawmaker says underage military servicemen and women should be allowed to drink alcohol.

Rep. Fletcher Smith has sponsored legislation that would allow service members younger than 21 to purchase alcohol if they show a military identification card to a bartender or store clerk.

South Carolina state law prohibits the sale or possession of alcoholic beverages by anyone under 21.


Changing the law would cost South Carolina to lose federal highway money.

South Carolina raised the drinking age to 21 from 18 to comply with federal law in 1984.

Safety advocates oppose the Greenville Democrat's bill. They say many studies show that giving alcohol to people younger than 21 does not make life safer for the military, nor for others on the nation's highways.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/15175549/detail.html

[dedbunniez]

I would support this bill. It has always pissed me off that they can choose to fight and possibly die for their country. But cannot get a beer. I say if you choose to serve you deserve all rights that can possibly be afforded to you under U.S. law.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Changing the law would cost South Carolina to lose federal highway money.

US states need to harden up and work out whether they can afford to lose the money.

Howard tried doing this for years by blackmailing the states into accepting a Federal proposal.

Should be laws against it in both nations.

[wotsnext]

You have to be 21 to drink? or to buy?

[el borracho]

Both, if you get caught doing either you get slapped with "Minor in Possession" or "Minor in Consumption." Usually it would just be an MIP, like if the cops bust a party they would hand out MIPs and call it a day. The only MICs I've heard of is when an underage kid gets hit for a DUI. I'm not sure how universal that is, but that's how the cops in my hometown operated. I'm well over 21 now, so I don't need to worry about those laws anymore.

[the_recruit]

You have to be 21 to drink? or to buy?


both. . . .

[WarriorMonk]

You have to be 21 to drink? or to buy?

Both -

if the drinking age is lowered to 18 then you need to impose harsher sentences for crimes committed under the influence if you want to offset the loss of highway money.

If you make that dumb-arse decision to drive drunk or incapacitated then you should be taken out of society for good - sent to Leavenworth for solitary confinement. No one is that stupid and gets away with it.

Either that, or make the rehab sessions a lot more intense and a lot more painful.

[Kilgor]

Any man who is willing to die for his country is entitled to have a bloody drink.

And woman of course.

[wotsnext]

Any man who is willing to die for his country is entitled to have a bloody drink.
Agreed....A better measure of a man than any birth cert I would of think.
Or woman :oops:

[Pete031]

Anyone allowed to fight, should be able to drink.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

US should get inline with the rest of the world and allow 18 year olds to drink, working holiday visas and ****. Think of the hot Swedish broads that would come over.

Plus the Kiwis might leave us alone.

[Laconian]

I think the drinking age on post should be 18 definitely they should be served booze at the EM club and be able to purchase at the Class VI and shoppette. I have mixed feelings about being able to drink off post. I've seen some very bad results of Joe Tentpeg getting drunked up down at the Chickasaw club and getting in some real bad wrecks trying to make it back to post...On the other hand, they've stepped up to the plate to play in a big people's world and they should be able to conduct themselves like big people.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I have mixed feelings about it. Unfortunately our young have a well established record of hanging themselves, given enough rope. Our law is the way it is because we're afraid of what they'll do to other people, not themselves. So the argument kinda winds up being - they agree to risk their lives, so we should let them risk ours?

[Firetxmi]

I have mixed feelings about it. Unfortunately our young have a well established record of hanging themselves, given enough rope. Our law is the way it is because we're afraid of what they'll do to other people, not themselves. So the argument kinda winds up being - they agree to risk their lives, so we should let them risk ours?

If you had asked me 8 or so years ago I would have agreed with the crowd that says "let 'em drink if they are gonna fight."

Now 'adays though I think I am inclined to agree with you 2Sheds (yes, I really did just type that)!

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

As soon as your old enough to vote you should receive the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of the community.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

The US may have a high drinking age, but all our drinking laws need to actually be enforced and carry stiffer penalties.

I'm talking about DUI (slap on the wrist for a first conviction), manslaughter while driving drunk (guy who killed a friend of mine while driving drunk got only 14 months in prison). In most European countries the drinking age is 18 or lower but first DUI gets your license revoked for life. In the USA at least in my state they don't take your license for good until the fourth conviction and even then many people drive without their license and get away with it.

And underage drinking is probably the most violated law in the nation besides speeding. Especially on college campuses and no one bothers to actually enforce the law. If my university was serious about this issue they could pull every frat's charter that serves alcohol to underage drinkers and call the cops to bust up their parties...nope no one in charge tries anything like that although we are not allowed to smoke within 100 feet of a building even though tobacco is legal for almost everyone on campus to possess...

Which brings me to conclude this rant by saying that while tobacco companies are prohibited from most times of advertisement, beer companies can advertise wherever they want. If you look at the TV ads for cheap beers such as Budweiser and Miller you will notice that they are targeted at teenagers.

[/rant]

[subotax]

Here in Québec the drinking age of 18 years is only a "recommendation".

It's funny how it attracts lots of folks from other jurisdictions...

[gaijinsamurai]

When I was in the Marine Corps the base commander of Camp Pendleton allowed under-aged Marines to buy and consume beer on base. I don't remember it causing any significant problems.

[Ordie]

When on Liberty we followed the law of the land or find loopholes whenever we can. I did two Westpac tours and hit every bar from Millington Tenn., to Tijuana and Diego Garcia all under 21.

Tennessee you had to be 21 to drink, military servicemen were exempt.

In San Diego we went to Tijuana on Revolucion street. In NAS Alameda, we went to UC Berkeley during rush week, pretending to be NROTC students at frat houses just to get the free booze. Only to get kicked out, so we walked next door and did it again.

Mamasan at the Missouri Bar (Subic Bay) looked after us "kids" and made sure we got back safely before the New People's Army found out.

The only time I was denied access to a bar was at the Honolulu Hard Rock Cafe. So we went next door to the Rock Za Strip joint where it was sailors night. The owner was a retired cop.

[I can't think of a name]

Were you enlisted or an officer Ordie?

[Lt. James Anderson]

Who obeys that law anyways? :)

I know I never did. About the heaviest drinking I ever did was until I was 21.

[Ordie]

Were you enlisted or an officer Ordie?

Enlisted......

The best places to go were on the "Off Limits" list.

[Trainman-2]

One possible compromise is to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only on post.

[Ordie]

One possible compromise is to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only on post.

I see why not since its Federal juristiction and in a controlled environment.

[Lt. James Anderson]

One possible compromise is to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only on post.

It's being done on and off post. As long as you don't fcuk up you are good to go.

[Masai]

why isnt the legal age for drinking / buying 18 like the rest of the world ?

[Ordie]

why isnt the legal age for drinking / buying 18 like the rest of the world ?

Because we fear our youth.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Megaraptor;3016797']I'm talking about DUI (slap on the wrist for a first conviction), manslaughter while driving drunk (guy who killed a friend of mine while driving drunk got only 14 months in prison). In most European countries the drinking age is 18 or lower but first DUI gets your license revoked for life.
[/rant]
That's not true.

[kawaiku]

As soon as your old enough to vote you should receive the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of the community.
Looking at the youth, especially where I live, I'd say a lot would register to vote just so they can drink. As it is, our society would prolly decline even farther (I already think it's pretty low, just watch TV for 1-3 hrs. and see what comes on).

[Breakfast in Vegas]

One possible compromise is to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only on post.
I would agree with this being legal on post.

Off post the soldiers should be governed by the same laws as other youth.

[gafkiwi]

When I first joined up at 18, the drinking age was 20. It was a given all soldiers could drink in the baggies bar or at functions on camp but I spent my first 2 years getting kicked out of bars in town I'd snuck into or the section had got me into. Did an Exercise in Aussy in 96 so I got to "Legally get on it" for a little while and sample some of what Townsville nightlife had to offer.(ah the memories)

In around 99/2000 the drinking age was dropped to 18. The Government wants to put it back up to 20 again because of the problems with underage drinking, drinking age was 20, you'd get 18 yr olds drinking, now with the age at 18 your getting alot of 16 and unders getting pulled out of bars or showing up at emergancy rooms with alcohol poisoning.

[non]

The legal age in US to buy alchohol became 21 by Federal mandate (or law or something) in 1984. Note the year. Enough said.

The pertinence of this post should be judged on the basis that I'm drunker than...an injun? And, the fact that I'm a thirteen year old girl. Hot, huh? Nevermind that, though...what the hel weer wwe takinb about.
(for godsakes, please feel free to note sarcasm)

Anywho, yeah, 18 and up should be able to drink on the base. Otherwise alot of potential recruits will just go squat in New Orleans. I mean, if it's all about getting their drink on.:roll:
Ridiculous to think anybody would join in order to be able to drink legally.

[gafkiwi]

One good thing is with young guys in the barracks who can't drink in town is most of them have a licence.

"Hey C***, you got a licence? Good, get in your driving us to town,"

(Normal rules apply, make sure they get a feed of Mc Donalds)

[dacanadianbomb]

I never understood how a country could have a kid own a gun,drive a car,serve in the forces, yet not be able to have a drink.Ie 21 in the states, or conversely 19 in ontario.What a load of ****e.

And proper carding at doors reduce the amount of underage drinkers getting their asses handed to them by a bottle of JD.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I never understood how a country could have a kid own a gun,drive a car,serve in the forces, yet not be able to have a drink.Ie 21 in the states, or conversely 19 in ontario.What a load of ****e.
Maybe having gun-wielding 18-year old drunks at the wheel of cars on a Saturday night is what is trying to be avoided.. :)

In principal though, you are absolutely right. Something don't jibe.

[Calanen]

US states need to harden up and work out whether they can afford to lose the money.

Howard tried doing this for years by blackmailing the states into accepting a Federal proposal.

Should be laws against it in both nations.

Every Federal government on both sides of politics has done this.

[dacanadianbomb]

I believe that letting the kids drive first and then drink increases the amount of drunk drivers.I cant back this up at all factually, Its just a personal opinion.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Every Federal government on both sides of politics has done this.

Not as badly as Howard.

[Calanen]

The legal age in US to buy alchohol became 21 by Federal mandate (or law or something) in 1984. Note the year. Enough said.

.

The Federal law (National Minimum Drinking Age Act 1984) only meant that if the State did not make it the law for the drinking age to be 21, they did not get Federal highway money. That was held to be constitutionally valid and not an impermissible burden on state sovereignty in South Dakota v Dole by the Supreme Court. This means, that you can get cut off by the Feds for your highway grant if you wont keep the drinking age at 21. Its not all your highway funding, just an extra 10 per cent if you follow the party line.

The Twenty First Amendment gives states the absolute right to legislate with respect to alcohol, and alcoholic premises. So they can set the age, regulate the premises, determine the alcoholic content of drinks that can be sold.

[Calanen]

Not as badly as Howard.

He's gone dude. Put it behind you.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

No chance in hell.

You put it behind you people forget and the same **** will happen again in 12 years time when Rudd retires.

[digrar]

Not as badly as Howard.

Little Kev isn't going to have to deal with bone headed opposition parties in state governments like JH did. Obviously Kev is going to be dealing with the same bone heads, it's just that they are birds of a feather and he won't have to use the carrot and stick approach as much.

[T3ngu]

No chance in hell.

You put it behind you people forget and the same **** will happen again in 12 years time when Rudd retires.

Time will tell min.

[digrar]

No chance in hell.

You put it behind you people forget and the same **** will happen again in 12 years time when Rudd retires.

Reckon he will stick to being in opposition for 8 years?

[T3ngu]

Reckon he will stick to being in opposition for 8 years?

lol made me laugh

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Reckon he will stick to being in opposition for 8 years?

It will be a long while before the ALP lose an election. Especially as Rudd has shown so far a cooperative approach towards government.

Howard did do some good things for this country. But he was an arrogant **** and Australians don't like that

[T3ngu]

It will be a long while before the ALP lose an election. Especially as Rudd has shown so far a cooperative approach towards government.

Howard did do some good things for this country. But he was an arrogant **** and Australians don't like that

I met howard a number of years back at a function and he seemed ok. But i agree, at the end, they did lose touch.

[non]

The Federal law (National Minimum Drinking Age Act 1984) only meant that if the State did not make it the law for the drinking age to be 21, they did not get Federal highway money. That was held to be constitutionally valid and not an impermissible burden on state sovereignty in South Dakota v Dole by the Supreme Court. This means, that you can get cut off by the Feds for your highway grant if you wont keep the drinking age at 21. Its not all your highway funding, just an extra 10 per cent if you follow the party line.

The Twenty First Amendment gives states the absolute right to legislate with respect to alcohol, and alcoholic premises. So they can set the age, regulate the premises, determine the alcoholic content of drinks that can be sold.

So, you're saying I can legally drive drunk on the highway if I'm over 21 yrs. of age. Awesome! Thanks, strine. Thanks internet.

[Asheren]

I wouldn't mind if they made such law in Poland. I am tired of those 19 yrs old idiots after few beers that think they just entered iddqd mode.

[Scrim]

Its a ridiculous law.
It was so easy to get drugs in High school, yet to get alcohol one had to do unspeakable favors for some homeless guy in an alley, luckily the alcohol would get rid of the taste though.

I dont know how it is now, but in the early 90s when I was 18, we never got turned down at the E-clubs on base or even at the skanky ***** bars out in town.

[tbk107]

I have mixed feelings about it. Unfortunately our young have a well established record of hanging themselves, given enough rope. Our law is the way it is because we're afraid of what they'll do to other people, not themselves. So the argument kinda winds up being - they agree to risk their lives, so we should let them risk ours?

Sound like something that would come out of the mouth of a politician campaigning on gun control :)

[California Joe]

I actually remember drinking legally at 18. Vermont and Washington DC were the last two holdouts to changing the drinking age if I remember correctly. When they changed the age you got grandfathered in.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I actually remember drinking legally at 18. Vermont and Washington DC were the last two holdouts to changing the drinking age if I remember correctly. When they changed the age you got grandfathered in.
It was Wyoming that changed last.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE1DE123BF932A35754C0A96E948260

Wyoming Finally Raises Its Drinking Age


By LISA BELKIN, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 1, 1988

Deanna Howard is a bartender at the Buck Horn Bar in this college town. But with the stroke of midnight tonight, she will not be allowed to buy a drink at the bar where she works.

In fact, being 20 years old, she is not allowed to buy a drink anywhere in the United States. Wyoming was the last of the 50 states to raise its drinking age, and, as a result, the minimum drinking age nationwide is now 21.

The existence of a uniform drinking age, however, has not ended the controversy over such laws. Proponents say the laws save lives. Opponents say the withholding of Federal highway funds from states that decline to adopt those laws is tantamount to blackmail.

And, they say, 19- and 20-year-olds are drinking anyway. 'Rugged, Proud Attitude
Nowhere is the debate more heated than in Wyoming, the least populated state in the country and a place where residents describe themselves as fiercely independent.

''We don't like to be blackmailed by the Federal Goverment; we don't like to be dictated to by the Federal Government; we don't like to be told what to do,'' said Dennis Curran, a spokesman for the Democratic Governor, Mike Sullivan.

Said Lisa Skiles, the 22-year-old president of the Associated Students of the University of Wyoming, which campaigned against the bill: ''It figures that this was the last state to pass it. You have to understand Wyoming. It has a rugged, proud attitude which isn't like anyplace else.''

State Called 'Bloody Wyoming'

The Wyoming Legislature had defeated four bills to raise the drinking age before passing this one in March, by a vote of 39 to 28. What changed the lawmakers' minds?
Mr. Curran said the Supreme Court's rejection of a lawsuit brought by South Dakota challenging the withholding of Federal highway funds played a role because Wyoming was losing between $8 million and $10 million each year.

And because the state was the only one with a lower legal drinking age, he said, teen-agers were crossing the border from other states, drinking and driving home drunk.
''We were being called ''Bloody Wyoming,' '' he said.

An Insult to Maturity

The Wyoming bill differed from those of most other states in its failure to allow people now 19 and 20 to continue to drink and does not raise the age at which a person can legally enter a bar.

The Legislature will not meet again until January, so each town is voting on whether or not to allow 19- and 20-year-olds into bars in the meantime. Most, including Laramie, are letting each bar owner decide.

Throughout Laramie, in bars like the Buck Horn, most students voice disapproval of the new law.

Tim Rohrer, 20, sees it as an insult to his maturity. ''By the time you're 18, 19 years old you have the right to make decisions,'' he said. ''If you can get married and sign contracts and die in a war you should be able to buy a beer.''

Loss of 1,000 Jobs Feared

Steve Addison, a football player at the University of Wyoming, says he spends $60 a week on beer during the off-season. He said he worried about the effect of the law on the local economy. ''I think it stinks not just for us but for the businesses in Laramie, the people who sell the alcohol,'' he said.

The Wyoming State Liqour Association has estimated that 1,000 jobs related to the liquor industry will be lost in the state as a result of the law.

Vic Mazurie, 19, another football player, said that without the bars, there was little to do in a small town like Laramie, which has one theater and one bowling alley. ''I'll be a rich man,'' he said of the money he will no longer spend on beer, ''and a great bowler.''

Mixed Results Seen

States that have enacted the higher drinking age have done so with mixed results. The California-based Mothers Against Drunk Driving estimates that drunk-driving fatalities among 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds have decreased by 13 percent over the past four years.

In addition, arrests of people in that age group for drunk driving fell 24 percent between 1983 and 1986, the largest decline of any group and double that of those between 21 and 24.

But in some places, drinking among 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds appears to have increased. At Princeton University 46 students became sick enough to go the school infirmiry in February after they drank too heavily at campus events, the highest one month figure in memory of school officials.

Big Drop in Liquor Sales

There is also evidence that the law is having a negative economic effect. Since Texas raised its drinking age two and a half years ago, liquor sales dropped by $110 million, according to the Texas Restaurant Association.

Among students in Laramie, the more immediate question is which bars will allow 19-year-olds inside. At T. D.'s, which caters to a younger crowd, customers will be required to show identification cards at the door.

Those over 21 will have their hand stamped, and only those with stamps will be allowed to purchase drinks. Other bars, such as the Buck Horn, are planning to turn 19- and 20-year-olds away, citing enforcement problems.

Many bars have bartenders and bouncers who are younger than 21. Most of them have been told they can keep their jobs.

''That's why I took this job in the first place,'' said Glade Shaffer, 19, who checks identification cards at the Cowboy Saloon and Dance Hall, which will bar underage patrons at the door. ''I knew this was the only way I could stay in the bar.''

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

That's not true.

It isn't? It's true in Spain I think, correct me if I am wrong.

[AirCommando]

I'm not sure how universal that is, but that's how the cops in my hometown operated. I'm well over 21 now, so I don't need to worry about those laws anymore.
It´s because of that I would never move to the US. In the most European countries teenagers can start legally to drink beer and wine with 16 and harder stuff with 18. But they can drive only with 18.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Megaraptor;3017680']It isn't? It's true in Spain I think, correct me if I am wrong.
Spain I don't know, but in Germany and England it's not true... DUI gets you 3 months of taking the bus and a $1000 fine... approx. There are various degrees of DUI AFAIK.

As for Spain, I can't really imagine getting punished "for life" for anything in Europe, not even murder..

[Breakfast in Vegas]

It´s because of that I would never move to the US. In the most European countries teenagers can start legally to drink beer and wine with 16 and harder stuff with 18. But they can drive only with 18.
I agree that it is silly, but the fact that there is no bar scene for kids to go to creates a really scorching house party scene, which is even wilder in a lot of ways. It was never a big problem to get alk as a teen, more of a sport really, which makes the laws even that much sillier. Given the early age US kids can get a driver's license, I can understand having the drinking age 18... but 21 is just insulting.

[wotsnext]

It´s because of that I would never move to the US. In the most European countries teenagers can start legally to drink beer and wine with 16 and harder stuff with 18. But they can drive only with 18.
17 In the UK. (Drive)

[eskachig]

I'm perpetually amazed at the power of angry mothers. It really is bizarre that a person can vote and serve in the armed forces but can't buy a beer.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

I'm perpetually amazed at the power of angry mothers. It really is bizarre that a person can vote and serve in the armed forces but can't buy a beer.

They can't legally buy cocaine either, should we change that as well?

[deagle]

i think there are other ways for a soldier to be recognize. it does suck that they can serve, but not get alcohol. but to be as fair as possible, either drop the drinking age, or raise the service age, that way, no grounds for complaint on either side.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

i think there are other ways for a soldier to be recognize. it does suck that they can serve, but not get alcohol. but to be as fair as possible, either drop the drinking age, or raise the service age, that way, no grounds for complaint on either side.
Raising the service age would give the armed forces some serious recruiting problems.

[eskachig]

Megaraptor;3018324']They can't legally buy cocaine either, should we change that as well?Oh come on, cocaine isn't exactly an age-restricted commodity. Basically right now the law states that a 20 year old with a combat tour under his belt is too immature to handle alcohol, which is patently absurd.

[Roy Batty]

Oh come on, cocaine isn't exactly an age-restricted commodity. Basically right now the law states that a 20 year old with a combat tour under his belt is too immature to handle alcohol, which is patently absurd.

Really? Because I have worked with some 19 year old "combat vets" who cant handle their booze.

[California Joe]

Leave Audie out of this. :)

[Laconian]

Oh come on, cocaine isn't exactly an age-restricted commodity. Basically right now the law states that a 20 year old with a combat tour under his belt is too immature to handle alcohol, which is patently absurd.

I know 30+ yr olds w/multiple combat tours that are too immature to handle booze. Alcohol abuse has been a problem among young soldiers for about as long as there have been young soldiers. I was not exempt. As a cadet, as a young LT, we drank like fish and several times it had disastrous results - friends of mine paralyzed and killed and some innocents went down with them.

I wish it were not true, but sometimes rules/laws are are around to protect us from ourselves. Again, I think service age folks should be entitled to drink booze on post, its off-post I get concerned about.

[eskachig]

I wish it were not true, but sometimes rules/laws are are around to protect us from ourselves. Again, I think service age folks should be entitled to drink booze on post, its off-post I get concerned about.People of all ages do stupid things, but it doesn't mean that they don't deserve the privileges of adulthood. I think the age should be lowered to 18 like the rest of the world - and I don't much care for citizen advocacy groups that force through policies that restrict personal freedom. Drunk driving should be harshly punished - much more so than it is now, and it's a separate issue from the drinking age.

[Cipher]

This bill is retarded and if passed, atleast a few more servicemen would die in achohol related accidents.

[gafkiwi]

Really? Because I have worked with some 19 year old "combat vets" who cant handle their booze.

I know a couple warrent officers with 20yr+ time up and can't handle their piss.

[Einsamer Wolf]

In switzerland you can drink from 16. And it works.

[pascalywood]

I believe underage soldiers should be allowed to drink at the mess of their unit. Do they also have the right to buy cigarettes, **** and anything else that is legally forbidden to minors? It does sound like a tactic to raise the number of recruits imo.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Do they also have the right to buy cigarettes, **** and anything else that is legallly forbiden to minors?

The legal age for buying all that stuff is 18 in the USA so yes anyone old enough to be in the Army is old enough to buy that stuff.

[Firetxmi]

If I am not mistaken, 17 year olds are allowed to join the military with parental consent. Why not lower it to 17 y.o.?

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

If I am not mistaken, 17 year olds are allowed to join the military with parental consent. Why not lower it to 17 y.o.?

They can join, but they won't be placed on active duty until age 18 IIRC...

[CPLHUNTER]

I agree...men and women in the military should be able to drink if they are required to die for their country.