SAS online history - documentation (web link)

[2RHPZ]

Archives of relevent information (1995 - 2001) and news in this site can be accessed through this page:

http://www.geocities.com/sascentre/documentation.html

[moughoun]

Nice one Cag :D woot

[Dennis G]

yeah, great links

[DeltaWhisky58]

Not exactly up to date - lates news 16/12/01!

[2RHPZ]

Archives of relevent information (1995 - 2001) and news in this site can be accessed through this page:

http://www.geocities.com/sascentre/documentation.html

:( I forgot to highlighted 1995 - 2001 above, sorry. :(

[richardben23]

alot of the links don't work anymore!

[big_les]

I wasn't sure about posting this on its own, and here seems a good place.

Does anyone have any good info on the 'Det', later known as the FRU, a unit of Intelligence and SAS soldiers formed in Northern Ireland in the early 70s?

[hist2004]

I wasn't sure about posting this on its own, and here seems a good place.

Does anyone have any good info on the 'Det', later known as the FRU, a unit of Intelligence and SAS soldiers formed in Northern Ireland in the early 70s?

This unit was known as “The Det” because it is split into Detachments covering different parts of Northern Ireland.
The unit was created when half of B Squadron SAS was de-badged and given the role of obtaining good intelligence
on the terrorists. A pre-requisite of joining 14int is that you should be free from scars, tattoos or anything else that
would make an operator stand out from the crowd. 14Int is the only Special Forces unit in the British Army to recruit
woman.
The unit recruits from all three services (Army, Navy, and Air Force). Many recruits have failed SAS selection but have been
found to be psychologically suitable for spec war. The selection process for 14Int takes place twice a year, and lasts
for two weeks. Recruits are subjected to sleep and food depravation, intense physical exercise and various other
Physically and mentally intensive exercises. They are also tested on their ability to memorize information while under
stress. Although the course does not require the enormous strength and stamina of SAS selection, it is still very tough,
and most people fail.
Those who pass selection are then taken to a base in the south of England, to undergo six months of intensive training. The base-
which is also used by MI5 (Security Service) to train some of their more specialized personnel-is heavily guarded and very well
equipped. Since the Det’s main role is to gain intelligence on terrorists, much of the training is given over to surveillance techniques.
They learn how to set up Observation Posts in both urban and rural environments. Trainees are taught how to follow someone on
foot and in a car.
Recruits are also well trained in close quarters battle. They receive intensive training in the use of the pistol-usually 9mm Browning-
The Hecklor and Koch MP5 and G3, and the pump-action shotgun. The camp contains its own Killing House and other firing ranges.
Intensive training is also given in lock-picking, infrared photography and the dialect and habits of both Republicans and Loyalists. One
of the most unpleasant parts of the training is the resistance to interrogation exercise, Recruits are told to go, on their own, to a certain
part of the camp. On the way, the are “jumped” by a team of several SAS men who tie them up, hood and gag them-all the while talking
in Irish accents. This is very scary for the recruits, who are not expecting it. The “victim” is then driven to another location (in the boot of
the car), where he/she is interrogated for about 24 hrs. Not too much violence is used, but the men will probably get a kicking when they
resist being tied up. It is a very scary and unpleasant experience, though the recruits quickly realize that its not “the real thing”.
The final part of the training is an exercise carried out in conjunction with MI5, Customs and/or the police. Det recruits follow and observe
Suspected drug dealers. The intelligence they gain is passed onto the police or Customs.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Royal]

I wasn't sure about posting this on its own, and here seems a good place.

Does anyone have any good info on the 'Det', later known as the FRU, a unit of Intelligence and SAS soldiers formed in Northern Ireland in the early 70s?

This unit was known as “The Det” because it is split into Detachments covering different parts of Northern Ireland.
The unit was created when half of B Squadron SAS was de-badged and given the role of obtaining good intelligence
on the terrorists. A pre-requisite of joining 14int is that you should be free from scars, tattoos or anything else that
would make an operator stand out from the crowd. 14Int is the only Special Forces unit in the British Army to recruit
woman.
The unit recruits from all three services (Army, Navy, and Air Force). Many recruits have failed SAS selection but have been
found to be psychologically suitable for spec war. The selection process for 14Int takes place twice a year, and lasts
for two weeks. Recruits are subjected to sleep and food depravation, intense physical exercise and various other
Physically and mentally intensive exercises. They are also tested on their ability to memorize information while under
stress. Although the course does not require the enormous strength and stamina of SAS selection, it is still very tough,
and most people fail.
Those who pass selection are then taken to a base in the south of England, to undergo six months of intensive training. The base-
which is also used by MI5 (Security Service) to train some of their more specialized personnel-is heavily guarded and very well
equipped. Since the Det’s main role is to gain intelligence on terrorists, much of the training is given over to surveillance techniques.
They learn how to set up Observation Posts in both urban and rural environments. Trainees are taught how to follow someone on
foot and in a car.
Recruits are also well trained in close quarters battle. They receive intensive training in the use of the pistol-usually 9mm Browning-
The Hecklor and Koch MP5 and G3, and the pump-action shotgun. The camp contains its own Killing House and other firing ranges.
Intensive training is also given in lock-picking, infrared photography and the dialect and habits of both Republicans and Loyalists. One
of the most unpleasant parts of the training is the resistance to interrogation exercise, Recruits are told to go, on their own, to a certain
part of the camp. On the way, the are “jumped” by a team of several SAS men who tie them up, hood and gag them-all the while talking
in Irish accents. This is very scary for the recruits, who are not expecting it. The “victim” is then driven to another location (in the boot of
the car), where he/she is interrogated for about 24 hrs. Not too much violence is used, but the men will probably get a kicking when they
resist being tied up. It is a very scary and unpleasant experience, though the recruits quickly realize that its not “the real thing”.
The final part of the training is an exercise carried out in conjunction with MI5, Customs and/or the police. Det recruits follow and observe
Suspected drug dealers. The intelligence they gain is passed onto the police or Customs.

Regards,
Hist2004

Hate to disabuse you, but almost all of the above is either 20 years out of date or rubbish.

Any member of the UK armed forces (yes, including females) can read the relevant DCI's and apply for special duties. The role of an Operator trained in such duties is also very different from that of 20 years ago...

[hist2004]

Hate to disabuse you, but almost all of the above is either 20 years out of date or rubbish.

Any member of the UK armed forces (yes, including females) can read the relevant DCI's and apply for special duties. The role of an Operator trained in such duties is also very different from that of 20 years ago...

Thanks for the update, sorry, that's all I had.

Regards,
Hist2004

[big_les]

A little harsh, this is the military history section after all, just because it's written in the present tense doesn't mean it refers to the present day. I ask because I was talking to someone I know to have the credentials (including more 'normal' SF operations, and it was the first time I'd heard of the Det. I was trying not to grill him on anything, and so just got snippets. He did mention plain clothes type activities, the G3, and carrying both MP5K and 'M11' (MAC11, which I was dubious about at first!) on assignment. It only came up at all as I mentioned the two guys (I thought signals guys) who were cornered and murdered by the provos and he talked about the Det. I'm pretty sure they were actually FRU types a few years later on than when he was involved, but it seems the Det gave rise to the FRU.

Can you more specifically critique Hist2004s info, or is it still OPSEC or OSA?

In any case, thanks Hist2004 for your info, which I'm sure contains some truth.

[Royal]

A little harsh, this is the military history section after all, just because it's written in the present tense doesn't mean it refers to the present day. I ask because I was talking to someone I know to have the credentials (including more 'normal' SF operations, and it was the first time I'd heard of the Det. I was trying not to grill him on anything, and so just got snippets. He did mention plain clothes type activities, the G3, and carrying both MP5K and 'M11' (MAC11, which I was dubious about at first!) on assignment. It only came up at all as I mentioned the two guys (I thought signals guys) who were cornered and murdered by the provos and he talked about the Det. I'm pretty sure they were actually FRU types a few years later on than when he was involved, but it seems the Det gave rise to the FRU.

Can you more specifically critique Hist2004s info, or is it still OPSEC or OSA?

In any case, thanks Hist2004 for your info, which I'm sure contains some truth.

If he's served in the last 15 years and calls it the Det, he's a Walter. The G3 goes back further than that and the MAC10 is in pre-history. The rumour that they were FRU goes back to the time (and An Pobeacht). They weren't. BTW 14 Intelligence Company (the Det's proper title) and the FRU were seperate entitys.

The Info is both OSA and OpSec, but there are snippets in open source - some came out with the Stakeknife reporting - if you look hard enough you will find it (but take anything with a shovel of salt, and it will be at best 5-10 years out of date).

The Intelligence and Security correspondants of the broadsheets like to mention it as it has more mystique than the SAS...

The history quoted is deeply flawed, the selection critera inaccurate and the training 20 years out of date (and confuses 2 different units).

[big_les]

A little harsh, this is the military history section after all, just because it's written in the present tense doesn't mean it refers to the present day. I ask because I was talking to someone I know to have the credentials (including more 'normal' SF operations, and it was the first time I'd heard of the Det. I was trying not to grill him on anything, and so just got snippets. He did mention plain clothes type activities, the G3, and carrying both MP5K and 'M11' (MAC11, which I was dubious about at first!) on assignment. It only came up at all as I mentioned the two guys (I thought signals guys) who were cornered and murdered by the provos and he talked about the Det. I'm pretty sure they were actually FRU types a few years later on than when he was involved, but it seems the Det gave rise to the FRU.

Can you more specifically critique Hist2004s info, or is it still OPSEC or OSA?

In any case, thanks Hist2004 for your info, which I'm sure contains some truth.

If he's served in the last 15 years and calls it the Det, he's a Walter. The G3 goes back further than that and the MAC10 is in pre-history. The rumour that they were FRU goes back to the time (and An Pobeacht). They weren't. BTW 14 Intelligence Company (the Det's proper title) and the FRU were seperate entitys.

The Info is both OSA and OpSec, but there are snippets in open source - some came out with the Stakeknife reporting - if you look hard enough you will find it (but take anything with a shovel of salt, and it will be at best 5-10 years out of date).

The Intelligence and Security correspondants of the broadsheets like to mention it as it has more mystique than the SAS...

The history quoted is deeply flawed, the selection critera inaccurate and the training 20 years out of date (and confuses 2 different units).

Thanks for that, especially clearing up the FRU question. The chap in question is pretty old (though I wouldn't say as much to him) and without doubt served in NI at the right time. I don't think he's been in the forces for quite some time now. He didn't give me any more info than I wouldn't have been able to find online, but obviously its only through people like him that you might be able to weed out the BS. I've known him for a while through his wife, but never want to openly ask him about his experiences. For one it smacks of being 'a fan', which I'm not (not even Indiana Jones gets us museum folks all gooey), and for another who knows what people *want* to talk about? I was just interested to hear about the 'unit', and from a firearms perspective, the unusual use of G3, MP5K, 'M11'. Well, that and more sensationalist stuff like his armalite wound in the knee.

[2RHPZ]

Hate to disabuse you, but almost all of the above is either 20 years out of date or rubbish.

Any member of the UK armed forces (yes, including females) can read the relevant DCI's and apply for special duties. The role of an Operator trained in such duties is also very different from that of 20 years ago...

Thanks for the update, sorry, that's all I had.

Regards,
Hist2004

I just got forwarded email with following story (allegedly taken from undefined forum):


A one-time boyfriend of mine 1994-1997 told me that he once worked in Northern Ireland, under the "direction" of MI5/MI6. He claimed that he was "recruited", by security forces, back in 1970. He had "valuable skills", in electronic surveillance methods, which were "of use" to the "intelligence community".

He claimed, that, under their "direction", he was provided with a false identity, and a false background, which meant that he needed to spend time in a Northern Ireland prison. He became "accepted", by the "prison community", most of whom were IRA sympathizers, and, people convicted of attacks on Loyalists and Police/Security Force personnel. Some of these people had been convicted of murder.

He went from prison, in 1972, into the Northern Irish community, where, he then became "established", within the "ranks" of the IRA. From this "base", he then gained all kinds of "intelligence', for the Security Forces. He claimed to have "in-depth knowledge" of "the real story" behind the incidents on "Bloody Sunday".

One of his claims, was that the "forerunner" organization of such units as FRU, was actually responsible for the "massacre". This unit was made up of guys, "specially selected" for their "psycho-tendencies", or, in his words, "bloody stone-cold killers".

Parts of his work involved acting as a "quartermaster" for one of the IRA "brigades" in The Province. from that "position" he was able to provide "intelligence" to the Security Forces, of the movement of arms and explosives. Some of this "intelligence" provided Security Forces (SAS) with the details of "planned ambushes" by the IRA, and, in fact, resulted in a high "kill-rate" for units of SAS during the time of the claimed "shoot to kill" policy, which was subsequently investigated by John Stalker.

My ex-boyfriend also claims that he worked with "14 Intelligence Unit", and was present when one of the members of that unit (a woman with the rank of Sergeant) was gunned down by the IRA in a "suveillance operation" that went disasterously wrong.

He appeared to have a lot of knowledge about the Security Forces, and of the Military Units that were involved in some very high-level "Intelligence Operations". He also mentioned that there was definite "collusion" between the Security Forces/Intelligence Units, and, Loyalist Organizations. UDA, UFF, UVF were all mentioned.

He claimed that after he "developed a conscience", due to the deaths of arounnd 20 members of IRA, "Brigades" at the hands of SAS, during the years..... 1972 - 1975, he "became a liability",especially when asked to provide "interlligence" on people that appeared to have "no connections whatsoever" with the IRA. A lot of this "intelligence" was passed to a very, very, COVERT unit, that had been "spawned from the ranks of British Military Units" and which also used the "services" of Mecinaries.

This "unit" was setup to look like, and act like, a "rogue" Loyalist Organization. It's "job" was to find, and "take-out" members of Republican/Nationalist Para-Military groups, "by whatever means necessary".

This guy, if all that he told me,was "for real" (and I don't believe he ever gave me any reason for doubt)had to "get out" by faking his death, in a "car-bomb accident" when one of the IRA car-bombs exploded "prematurely". He claimed that he was "assisted" in his "exit" from Northern Ireland, and "out of the clutches" of both the IRA and the "Intelligence Community", by members of SAS.

He claimed, at the time, when he told me all of this, 1997, that the "very, very, COVERT unit", to which he gave no title, was, and probably still is (up to that date) still active in Northern Ireland.

It´s little bit funny but anyway ... I want to share it with you all ...