Federal Assault Weapons Ban expires on Sept 13, 2004

[Uncle Sam]

Federal Assault Weapons Ban

The federal assault weapons ban (AWB) prohibits the manufacture and sale of specific models of military-style firearms.

The bill bans, by name, the manufacture of 19 different weapons:

Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
Colt AR-15;
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
SWD M-10; M-11; M-11/9, and M-12;
Steyr AUG;
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, AND TEC-22;
revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12.

The 1994 law also prohibits manufacturers from producing firearms with more than one of the following assault weapon features:

Rifles

Folding/telescoping stock
Protruding pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Threaded muzzle or flash suppressor
Grenade launcher

Pistols

Magazine outside grip
Threaded muzzle
Barrel shroud
Unloaded weight of 50 ounces or more
Semi-automatic version of a fully automatic weapon

Shotguns

Folding/telescoping stock
Protruding pistol grip
Detachable magazine capacity
Fixed magazine capacity greater than 5 rounds

Despite the ban, many gun manufacturers have evaded the law by making minor modifications to banned weapons.

The current ban is set to expire on September 13, 2004. On that date, previously banned assault weapons will be legal to sell once again, unless the law is reauthorized.


What do you think about this?? Do you think this law has helped?

[usa320]

no. People who are going to murder couldnt give to ****s about gun laws. And more people are murdered with glocks than assault weapons anywho.

[Scottie]

What is USA coming too :roll: WTF is people gonna do with Assault rifles???? They want people to kill each other :lol: :lol: :bash:

[American Patriot]

They're not real assault rifles.

They are semi-automatic homeland defense rifles. Perfect for defending your family against the jack-booted thugs and can also be used for hunting, target shooting, and collecting.

Hope that clears everything up for you Fairnie.

[chauncy republicans]

no. People who are going to murder couldnt give to ****s about gun laws. And more people are murdered with glocks than assault weapons anywho.
You are absolutly right! I worry more about a pistol carrying punk than a rifle wielding "militia-man". Whens the last time you stuffed an assault rifle down your pants, and robbed the neigborhood liquor store?

[ChuckThunder]

I hope it expires and we never hear of stupid gun laws again.

I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, and licenses. But let us buy stuff to use them!!!

[martinexsquaddie]

oh no the black helicopters :roll:

[Scottie]

Thanks for the replies! :)

Guess I've just been living in a place where no guns are allowed :roll:

[Dennis G]

http://www.awbansunset.com/

cant wait

[budanski]

Something to think about...


In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control.
From 1975 to 1977, one million “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The number of defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: ABOUT 55 MILLION!

So the question I should be asking is "who do you want to exterminate?"

Australia and England both have strict gun control. Is it any wonder that the International Crime Victims Survey (http://www.unicri.it/icvs/) rated both more dangerous than the U.S.?

[Dennis G]

good info budanski

another link

http://www.clintongunban.com/

[chauncy republicans]

Assault Rifle Ban = Why I will never vote "Democrat".

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The Soviets had gun control? I thought gun ownership was wide spread in the CCCP and the shooting sports along with hunting encouraged and that it is only recently that things have got tighter. What say the Russian's and others from the CCCP on the forum on this matter.

[droopy]

Something to think about...


In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control.
From 1975 to 1977, one million “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The number of defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: ABOUT 55 MILLION!

So the question I should be asking is "who do you want to exterminate?"

Australia and England both have strict gun control. Is it any wonder that the International Crime Victims Survey (http://www.unicri.it/icvs/) rated both more dangerous than the U.S.?
Yes but hwo is going to invade the USA??

[EvanL]

Homer: But its my right to own a gun. It says so in the constitution.
Lisa: But dad, most of the constitutions rights are antiquated. We cant rely on them anymore.
Homer: Well whats to stop the king of england from coming in here and pushing you around.. You dont want the king of england pushing you around now do you lisa?
Lisa: No
Homer: Okay then.

[Jack Mehoff]

It is a law to own weapon in a small town call Virgin, Utah. Needless to say everybody in that town is really nice to one another.

Owning weapon is an American thing, you foreigners wouldn't understand.

[Fintin]

i have always found it to be utterly pointless....no granade launcher, but a "flare launcher" is allowed...no flash suppreser but a muzle choak is allowed...cant be over a cirtain weight....so they just drilled out holes to make it leagle....its just been a bunch of pointless red tape

[Durandal]

Yes but hwo is going to invade the USA??

Why is that an issue? All of his examples were done by the people's OWN governments.

[EvanL]

It is a law to own weapon in a small town call Virgin, Utah. Needless to say everybody in that town is really nice to one another.

Owning weapon is an American thing, you foreigners wouldn't understand.
Yes. Cus in Canada we have no guns.
i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle. other than a sever inferiority complex. If you want a handgun to protect yourself/home/family. Thats great, I like the idea. If you want a rifle to hunt/target practice, tahts great. I totally like that idea.
But if you want an assault rifle for that stuff. Thats just ridiculous. Its overkill.

[kinghk]

Owning weapon is an American thing, you foreigners wouldn't understand.

Pardon me, but I thought that you weren't allowed by the local authorities (aka your wife) to own firearms. I'm not american, but I do own firearms, can you please explain to me what I don't understand?

[kinghk]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower" or "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a pc with more than 500 mhz cpu"
or "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a inet connection with more than 512 Kb/s download speed"

[EvanL]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower".
Not really.
These days a car is a necessity.
Guns arent. Its not the frontier days anymore.

[Herrmannek]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower".

Or computer with more than 512K of RAM :)

[Durandal]

I figure I would post this here rather than making a new thread...

Rock on John Lott!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120638,00.html

Wither Gun Control

Sunday, May 23, 2004

By John R. Lott, Jr.


What is happening to the*gun control movement?

This month, the*Million Mom March in Washington drew an*anemic showing of only 2,000 people, while this year, all of*the Democratic presidential candidates— however unenthusiastically—*spoke of Americans’*Second Amendment *right to own guns. These are just a few of the signs that the facts finally seem to be catching up to the movement.*The future for the movement looks even worse.

Whether*the subject is*concealed handgun laws*or bans on semi-automatic so-called*“assault weapons,” *gun control debates have been filled with apocalyptic claims about what will happen if gun control is not adopted. One common prediction is that*laws allowing the carrying of a concealed weapon will result in crime waves, or permit holders shooting others.*However, with 37 states now having*right-to-carry laws , and another*nine states letting some citizens*carry, permit holders have continually shown themselves to be extremely law-abiding. It is becoming more and more difficult to attack those laws.

Disarray among gun controllers is becoming common, even on*one cornerstone of the gun control movement — the semi-automatic gun ban. Take the statements made on National Public Radio by*a representative*of the*Violence Policy Center just one week after the assault weapon extension was defeated in the Senate this March.

NPR described the VPC as "one of the more aggressive gun groups in Washington." Yet the VPC's representative claimed: “If the existing assault-weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets. So if it doesn’t pass, it doesn’t pass.”

The NPR reporter noted: "[the Violence Policy Center's representative] says that's all the [assault-weapons ban] brought about, minor changes in appearance that didn't alter the function of these weapons.”

Yet, before the Senate vote the VPC had long claimed that it was a "myth" that "assault weapons merely look different. The NRA and the gun industry today portray assault weapons as misunderstood ugly ducklings, no different from other semi-automatic guns. But while the actions, or internal mechanisms, of all semi-automatic guns are similar, the actions of assault weapons are part of a broader design package. The 'ugly' looks of the TEC-9, AR-15, AK-47 and similar guns reflect this package of features designed to kill people efficiently."

So why the sudden disarray after the Senate defeat? Simply, gun-control groups' credibility is*on the line and they are getting cold feet. With no academic research showing the assault weapons ban*reduces crime, gun control groups realize that soon it will be obvious to everyone that their predicted horror stories about "assault weapons" were completely wrong.

Internationally, dramatic gun control victories in countries such as England, Australia, and Canada are also unraveling.

— Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

— Australia has also seen its violent crime rates soar after its*Port Arthur gun control measures *in late 1996. Violent crime rates averaged 32 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year before the law in 1996. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 45 percent.

— The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the most recent survey done, shows that the violent crime rate in England and Australia was twice the rate in the US.

— Canada has not gone anywhere near as far as the United Kingdom or Australia. Nevertheless, their gun registration system is costing roughly a thousand times more than promised and has grown to be extremely unpopular, with only 17 percent of Canadians in a poll release this week supporting the system. Nor does the system seem to be providing any protection. The Canadian government recently admitted that they could not identify even a single violent crime that had been solved by registration.

Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is that if the law-abiding citizens obey the laws and the criminals don’t, the rules create sitting ducks who cannot defend themselves. While the debate is hardly over, gun control is just another example of government planning that hasn’t lived up to its billing. And like other types of government planning, eventually its failures become too overwhelming to ignore.

John Lott, Jr., is*a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and*is the author of* The Bias Against Guns (Regnery 2004).

[Jack Mehoff]

Owning weapon is an American thing, you foreigners wouldn't understand.

Pardon me, but I thought that you weren't allowed by the local authorities (aka your wife) to own firearms. I'm not american, but I do own firearms, can you please explain to me what I don't understand?

Well, I can file for a divorce. You think?

[kinghk]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower".
Not really.
These days a car is a necessity.
Guns arent. Its not the frontier days anymore.

I didn't write that a car is unnecessity, I wrote that a car with more than 50 horsepower
is unnecessity.

[EvanL]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower".
Not really.
These days a car is a necessity.
Guns arent. Its not the frontier days anymore.

I didn't write that a car is unnecessity, I wrote that a car with more than 50 horsepower
is unnecessity.
Depends on whgat you use your car for. Is it for getting around? then its overkill. Or is it for private racing? Then thats good.

[Fintin]

Guns arent. Its not the frontier days anymore.

I didn't write that a car is unnecessity, I wrote that a car with more than 50 horsepower
is unnecessity.[/quote]

why....because you can....and i would say the minimum a car should have is 100 horsepower...hell...why go hunting with a one shot bolt action if you have bad aim...take an m4 and light that buck up...

[kinghk]

[
Depends on whgat you use your car for. Is it for getting around? then its overkill. Or is it for private racing? Then thats good.

OK, assault rifles are not obligatory for neither self defence nor hunting, but why cannot people own an assault rifle as part of their hobby, while other people own a car with an overkill amount of horsepower for their hobby?

The "people don't need it" argument is useless.

[EvanL]

[
Depends on whgat you use your car for. Is it for getting around? then its overkill. Or is it for private racing? Then thats good.

OK, assault rifles are not obligatory for neither self defence nor hunting, but why cannot people own an assault rifle as part of their hobby, while other people own a car with an overkill amount of horsepower for their hobby?

The "people don't need it" argument is useless.
Good point.
Owning an assault rifle for hobby sports is ok. But iu guess what im meanbing to say is, i think iuts overkill to have one for home/personal protection.

[Mark Sman]

Saying that the weapons in the assault weapons ban have no legitimate use will be news to all the shooters in my local club that use AR style rifles competitively. Probably one of the most competitive classes.

http://www.odcmp.com/

Also I really don't give a dam what someone else thinks about it, or what the constitution says, I want to own my own rifle. And I do.

Alot of people have read to much hyped up BS against these rifles, and basically have no clue what they are talking about. If you want to live in a country that bans guns, move to one, because it sure as hell isn't going to happen here soon.

[MEGR]

There is a civvie model for the Steyr Aug? If so, I'm so getting one when this ban lifts. Any civvie modles for Ak74, g36, or famas? Ooo i can't wait.

[Durandal]

...because it sure as hell isn't going to happen here soon.

And that attitude will get guns banned. There will ALWAYS be an ongoing assault on gun ownership in this nation. Some times it will appear rational, like a registering a firearms for ballistics test in homicides (which has proven to be nearly ZERO effective in Canada) and banning "cop killer" bullets or something completely irrational, like the 1994 AWB.

even the smallest, seemingly insignificant laws are the very core for undermining gun ownership in this nation.

To simply say that "it isn't going to happen here soon" is ignorant. It hasn't happened yet because there have been massive progress made in getting gun owners active and expanding liberal (liberal as in "proliferation of rights" not political direction) gun ownership laws, like Conceal Carry.

Go to CNN and look at their poll on the Assault Weapon's ban...fully 2/3 of those polled think the ban should be extended. Keep in mind this is with a flurry of emails on all the pro-gun mailing lists gettin peope to poll, just in case some idiot politician use it as "proof"...even though there are only 225K odd voters polled to date...

Go here for link (tagged with article of "Million" Mom March: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/09/gun.control.rally.ap/index.html

No, you need to fight for your rights. Join the NRA, become politcally active on 2nd Amendment supporters campaigns (regardless of political affiliation...in Kentucky for instance both parties are pro-gun ownership at the State executive level).

Make your voice heard.

Its just not as simple as saying "My rights will still be around years from now because we have a gun culture in America."

Because...

Someone out there is saying "Gun are dangerous and I am going to do something about it."

Keep up the fight man.

[kinghk]

There is a civvie model for the Steyr Aug?


Yes, they make a semi-only version.




If so, I'm so getting one when this ban lifts. Any civvie modles for Ak74,



I have heard about it, but I can't remeber who makes it.
Perhaps it was www.molot.net




g36



SL-8 ?




, or famas?

No.

[Durandal]

There is a civvie model for the Steyr Aug? If so, I'm so getting one when this ban lifts. Any civvie modles for Ak74, g36, or famas? Ooo i can't wait.

Yes, there are Semi-Auto Steyrs out there...they are rare and will run you around 4500.00 You can get kits as well, these are also rare...without receiver and run about 1500.00 and an A2 Semi-Auto receiver will run you about 2500.00 plus gunsmith charges for barrel attachment...

AK-74...yep. You can get those in both pre and post ban RIGHT now. They are a lot more rare than AK-47 SAR variants but they exist.

No G36, but H&L did make the SL8, which has been discontinued and takes a variety of G36 parts, like ht esight rail and forward grip...these will run about 1500.00 and as chep as 900.00 depending on what they come with...

No FAMAS that I know of but you can find civilian models of the...

G3
Cetme
FN


If you are looking for Euro models...the Cetmes will probably run the cheapest starting at around 300.00 Plus.

Edit: Sorry, I did not realize someone else posted a similar reply. I'll keep this one up though sicne it has more info. :)

[sethen]

What is USA coming too :roll: WTF is people gonna do with Assault rifles???? They want people to kill each other :lol: :lol: :bash:

IMHO the guns that are classed by the media as "assault weapons" are not!!! Fora weapon to be an assault weapon it has to be cappable of full auto. American feel threaten by a whole host of things, especially 'their" government. As usual we want to be better armed than the opponent!!!! p-)

[GrimmyRX]

What is USA coming too :roll: WTF is people gonna do with Assault rifles???? They want people to kill each other :lol: :lol: :bash:

IMHO the guns that are classed by the media as "assault weapons" are not!!! Fora weapon to be an assault weapon it has to be cappable of full auto. American feel threaten by a whole host of things, especially 'their" government. As usual we want to be better armed than the opponent!!!! p-)

So, when are you gonna vote for being able to own a M1 Abrams, or a Apache? Oh, better yet, lets have privetly owned Nuclear submarines.

You'll definetly be "better armed than (some of) the opponents."


OK, assault rifles are not obligatory for neither self defence nor hunting, but why cannot people own an assault rifle as part of their hobby,

If I were American, Why can't I own a Nuclear missile? I don't need it, and it's not useful for anything other than making a big bang..... but it's a hobby.

[Durandal]

Both are silly arguments...for and against.

The government gets its power from the people. The government is there FOR the poeple. The principle roll of the government is NOT to rule over the people but to provide certain basic things...

A people numerous and armed, regardless, of the weapon (I think requiring a CLass III license to own fully automatic weapons is a good thing), assures that the government stays in check. In some ways it IS the final "Check and Balance" in our political system. I am not paranoid that the government is going to some day rule us with an iron fist, but I considering disarming the people of this nation the same as removing one of the three branches of government of our Republic.

I do not think any sane individual would consider taking away the Legislative Branch or the Supreme Court...so why would they consider taking away guns.

[Pandy]

There's a lot of people who says this "Guns kill people..." Then you can say;

"My pen puts mis-spelled words on my paper."
"**** makes me jack-off every night."
"This shoe made me kick the hell out of this dog."
"This knife made me stab this women down the street."

The way I see it... it is self-control and it is the person who pulls the trigger on the rifle is the one killing, not the rifle itself. The rifle itself was a tool in the killing, you can use any other weapon like an knife, baseball bat, your fists, etc.

You can also do more damage with a sniper rifle then an assault rifle. I own a few assault rifles and you don't see me shooting up schools, stores or government buildings. I shoot my assault rifles at a range for fun and enjoyment, nothing more, nothing less. And one more note... the rifle the DC snipers used... post-ban to my understanding.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Something to think about...


In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control.
From 1975 to 1977, one million “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The number of defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: ABOUT 55 MILLION!

So the question I should be asking is "who do you want to exterminate?"

Australia and England both have strict gun control. Is it any wonder that the International Crime Victims Survey (http://www.unicri.it/icvs/) rated both more dangerous than the U.S.?

Complete bollocks, Australia is so f*cking easy going, sure if you want to hang out with some Lebanese gang bangers you might get shot, but otherwise there is absolute no need for the average silly bugger to own an assault rifle, pistol or sub atomic laser.

If you’re implying Australia and the UK are next on the government mind control / death camp list that's even more hilarious.

Paraniod delusions best filed under "non-issue".

[5jumpchump]

The worst thing about this gun law is that I can STILL own assault rifles I just can't have a bayonet lug put on if it wasn't initially made with one . Gee that is a real comforting law knowing that the next time I get held up with an assault rifle there won't be a bayonet lug on there that I could get stabbed with . And thank God , because that means the days of drive-by bayonet killings are over ! Thanks to "the man " :roll:

[BlackRain]

The Soviets had gun control? I thought gun ownership was wide spread in the CCCP and the shooting sports along with hunting encouraged and that it is only recently that things have got tighter. What say the Russian's and others from the CCCP on the forum on this matter.

Do you believe everything Papa Stalin told you?

Soviet Union
Between 1929-1945 Gun laws imposed and targeted Political opponents;
farming communities 20 million.

What Soviet Gun laws you ask?

Resolutions, 1918
Decree, July 12, 1920
Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926

These regulations called for:

•Licensing of owners
•Ban on possession
•Severe penalties

Did Gun Control Work There?


It is hard to think of a much more draconian police state than the former Soviet Union, yet despite a ban on guns that dates back to the communist revolution, newly released data suggest that the ³worker¹s paradise² was less than the idyllic picture painted by the regime in yet another respect: murder rates were high. During the entire decade from 1976 to 1985 the Soviet Union¹s homicide rate was between 21% and 41% higher than that of the United States. By 1989, two years before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it had risen to 48% above U.S. rate.

[Geezah]

Something to think about...


In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control.
From 1975 to 1977, one million “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The number of defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: ABOUT 55 MILLION!

So the question I should be asking is "who do you want to exterminate?"

Australia and England both have strict gun control. Is it any wonder that the International Crime Victims Survey (http://www.unicri.it/icvs/) rated both more dangerous than the U.S.?

Complete bollocks, Australia is so f*cking easy going, sure if you want to hang out with some Lebanese gang bangers you might get shot, but otherwise there is absolute no need for the average silly bugger to own an assault rifle, pistol or sub atomic laser.

If you’re implying Australia and the UK are next on the government mind control / death camp list that's even more hilarious.

Paraniod delusions best filed under "non-issue".

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

[Durandal]

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

To true. Why are they passing a ban o edged weapons and pot stickers? Because that is what criminals started using. And while collectors may keep hold o ftheir current stock of pig stickers, and collect more, they have to file for a frick'n license if you can belive that crap.

Sorry if anyone tries to rationalize this load of beurarcatic crap you are wuite literally...insane.

Same goes with the British ban on air guns with self contained gas cartridges. If I was a Brit, I would be SUPER pissed these politicos were wasting that massive tax burden on such petty attempts statesmanship...

People look at gun ownership in America and think, "Goddman, they are nuts...or cowboys...or both." Let me tell you...the lunatics are these guys making laws to ban gun type X or swords or air guns...make sure no one drops a nuclear bopmb or blow-up a Ryder truck, keep the roads, trains, and planes, moving...and stay the hell out of people's lives.


Is it that damn difficult to do?

I can just see some Congressman or mwoman right now. "Hey, I have an idea. Let's limit everyones intake of jelly. Yeah, that'll do some good. While I am at it, letter openers and staplers are dangerous...I'll ban those outright. Now, if I vote on late term abortion and gay rights the way the other guys want me to, I can get them to vote for these."

*sigh*

The world is going down the crapper.

[FallenAngel]

Well, I am happy for the rest of you...

but here in Commie-fornia, we have state laws that are even tougher than the AWB and they HAVE been renewed. :(

At this rate, the only thing I'm going to be able to own in 20 years is a Kentuky Rifle and a 1860 Army revolver :petting:

[Zoomie]

i just dont see the point in a civillian needing an assualt rifle.

It's like saying "I dont see the point in a cilivilan needing a car with more than 50 horsepower".
Not really.
These days a car is a necessity.
Guns arent. Its not the frontier days anymore.

I didn't write that a car is unnecessity, I wrote that a car with more than 50 horsepower
is unnecessity.
Depends on whgat you use your car for. Is it for getting around? then its overkill. Or is it for private racing? Then thats good.

This is where I see you contridicting yourself. You don't really need a car for private racing do you? No. But do you want one? Sure. This is why some people enjoy owning the semi-auto weapons. You don't really need it, but you enjoy owning either, each to his own.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

Again a fundamentally flawed response, it is much easier to kill some one with a gun that has a high rate of fire than a knife.

This idea that "oh next we will be banning spoons" doesn't wash, it is a reactionary comment that deifies the basic laws of science.

A gun usually carries enough rounds to quickly take out a number of people; a Knife has a very limited body count ability.

This is all pointless because there is no need for any of our gun laws to change because a limited number of people feel compelled to dress up in the mirror holding a bad ass 45 and quoting Taxi Driver.

This isn't a self defence issue it's a ***** one.

[Abolith]

Well, I am happy for the rest of you...

but here in Commie-fornia, we have state laws that are even tougher than the AWB and they HAVE been renewed. :(

At this rate, the only thing I'm going to be able to own in 20 years is a Kentuky Rifle and a 1860 Army revolver :petting:



The last time I check the "wonderful" and "thoughful" Democratic Rep from Ventura county (Gil Sadio?) was trying to get a tax on all ammo, ammo construction, and, ammo related materials. If I remember right it was going to be a 5 cent tax per round, meaning that box of 550 .22LR will run you 35-40 dolars (U.S.)...ouch feel the pain. Empty shells were to have a 3 cent tax and powder was to have a 15-20% tax...including Black powder.

So ya you may still have it but you can't shoot it as it would cost too damn much.

p.s. BP rules :)

[rob]

[
Depends on whgat you use your car for. Is it for getting around? then its overkill. Or is it for private racing? Then thats good.

OK, assault rifles are not obligatory for neither self defence nor hunting, but why cannot people own an assault rifle as part of their hobby, while other people own a car with an overkill amount of horsepower for their hobby?

The "people don't need it" argument is useless.
Good point.
Owning an assault rifle for hobby sports is ok. But iu guess what im meanbing to say is, i think iuts overkill to have one for home/personal protection.

its a non issue, assualt rifles where banned before 94 and will be banned after the sunset this year. the democrates used the name "assualt weapon" to confuse people and scare then to try and gain support.

but a "assualt weapon" is a semi automatic rifle which has some irrelivent to crime but deemed "evil" features.

among them,

the color black, i still dont understand the longic behind that one.

pistol grips, suposedly aides in 'Killing little children" even thought that is completely untrue.

a bayonet lug, again dont understandthe resoning, when was the last tiem you heard of someone being bayoneted on the news?

berral under 16inches. probly the most logical oen on here is a smidge of lgic behind it, but what is teh point with pistols remain legal and they are much more easy to conceal then any rifle.

and a few others that are equally as pointless.

[5jumpchump]

I can counter you argument easily . California , two men rob a bank with AK 47's . Hopped up on meth and armed to the teeth with body armor and thousands of rounds of ammo , some armor piercing . Hundreds and hundreds of rounds fired at people , cops , by-standers , helicopters , and buildings with tons of stray bullets going every where and not one person was killed . I mean **** these guys were fifty feet from cops with full auto AK's and not person died . So meh :P

Then there is this http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/search97cgi/s97_cgi rofl

The most people using assault weapons are gang bangers in the ghettos . And every country seems to have that problem . They kill each other off , that's a good thing .

And for all of you saying I shouldn't even have assault rifles , well just for you saying that I'm going to buy another one this weekend just to piss you off . I'll pick up an AK-105 with a 75 round drum magazine complete with new cobra tac sight , I'll buy 3,000 rounds of steel core ammo and throw in a Guilli suit as well - Muwahahahahahahaha rofl

[5jumpchump]

Don't bother with the link , it goes to a different sight . I had put a search in for assault weapons crime stats and nothing came up . Oh well :roll:

[mocking_loudly_died]

I can counter you argument easily . California , two men rob a bank with AK 47's . Hopped up on meth and armed to the teeth with body armor and thousands of rounds of ammo , some armor piercing . Hundreds and hundreds of rounds fired at people , cops , by-standers , helicopters , and buildings with tons of stray bullets going every where and not one person was killed . I mean **** these guys were fifty feet from cops with full auto AK's and not person died . So meh :P

Then there is this http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/search97cgi/s97_cgi rofl

The most people using assault weapons are gang bangers in the ghettos . And every country seems to have that problem . They kill each other off , that's a good thing .

And for all of you saying I shouldn't even have assault rifles , well just for you saying that I'm going to buy another one this weekend just to piss you off . I'll pick up an AK-105 with a 75 round drum magazine complete with new cobra tac sight , I'll buy 3,000 rounds of steel core ammo and throw in a Guilli suit as well - Muwahahahahahahaha rofl

Not sure if this is aimed at me - heck do what you want; what was tugging on the hairs of my arse was comments relating to Australia.

I don't give a **** what Americans do.

[Geezah]

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

Again a fundamentally flawed response, it is much easier to kill some one with a gun that has a high rate of fire than a knife.

This idea that "oh next we will be banning spoons" doesn't wash, it is a reactionary comment that deifies the basic laws of science.

A gun usually carries enough rounds to quickly take out a number of people; a Knife has a very limited body count ability.

This is all pointless because there is no need for any of our gun laws to change because a limited number of people feel compelled to dress up in the mirror holding a bad ass 45 and quoting Taxi Driver.

This isn't a self defence issue it's a ***** one.

No what is flawed is the fact that you don't trust 'yourself' to own a firearm and so in turn want to carry that over to everyone else!
Well I'm a responsible law abiding civilian that has never commited any offence ;) and so in turn I am able to retain my "Right to Bear Arms". so please don't spout out how it's a ***** issue when it comes down to owning firearms! If it was a ***** issue I'd probably want to drive a very fast car!

P.S. Never seen Taxi driver so I'm unable to quote it in front of the mirror, and again you've proved how flawed your way of thinking is because you think everyone stands infront of the mirror and quotes movies? Yeah right, who's isn't in touch with reality?

[mocking_loudly_died]

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

Again a fundamentally flawed response, it is much easier to kill some one with a gun that has a high rate of fire than a knife.

This idea that "oh next we will be banning spoons" doesn't wash, it is a reactionary comment that deifies the basic laws of science.

A gun usually carries enough rounds to quickly take out a number of people; a Knife has a very limited body count ability.

This is all pointless because there is no need for any of our gun laws to change because a limited number of people feel compelled to dress up in the mirror holding a bad ass 45 and quoting Taxi Driver.

This isn't a self defence issue it's a ***** one.

No what is flawed is the fact that you don't trust 'yourself' to own a firearm and so in turn want to carry that over to everyone else!
Well I'm a responsible law abiding civilian that has never commited any offence ;) and so in turn I am able to retain my "Right to Bear Arms". so please don't spout out how it's a ***** issue when it comes down to owning firearms! If it was a ***** issue I'd probably want to drive a very fast car!

P.S. Never seen Taxi driver so I'm unable to quote it in front of the mirror, and again you've proved how flawed your way of thinking is because you think everyone stands infront of the mirror and quotes movies? Yeah right, who's isn't in touch with reality?

Boo hoo, buy a water pistol.

[Geezah]

Haven't they just passed a ban on swords and knives over there? Only people unaffected are legitamate collectors!

The only thing my assault rifles have assaulted are my shoulders! :D

P.S. How long before the pointy stick ban is in place?

Again a fundamentally flawed response, it is much easier to kill some one with a gun that has a high rate of fire than a knife.

This idea that "oh next we will be banning spoons" doesn't wash, it is a reactionary comment that deifies the basic laws of science.

A gun usually carries enough rounds to quickly take out a number of people; a Knife has a very limited body count ability.

This is all pointless because there is no need for any of our gun laws to change because a limited number of people feel compelled to dress up in the mirror holding a bad ass 45 and quoting Taxi Driver.

This isn't a self defence issue it's a ***** one.

No what is flawed is the fact that you don't trust 'yourself' to own a firearm and so in turn want to carry that over to everyone else!
Well I'm a responsible law abiding civilian that has never commited any offence ;) and so in turn I am able to retain my "Right to Bear Arms". so please don't spout out how it's a ***** issue when it comes down to owning firearms! If it was a ***** issue I'd probably want to drive a very fast car!

P.S. Never seen Taxi driver so I'm unable to quote it in front of the mirror, and again you've proved how flawed your way of thinking is because you think everyone stands infront of the mirror and quotes movies? Yeah right, who's isn't in touch with reality?

Boo hoo, buy a water pistol.

You just proved my point! thank you :P

[mocking_loudly_died]

@ Geezah

Christ - if you actually paid attention to the context of what I was talking about you silly runt there would be no need to continue on with this pointless exercise in keyboard bashing.

I was talking about Australia, not America / UK's stance on gun control.

Are there thousands of people on the streets of my country going "oooh allow us more guns, we feel so threatened and weak with out them"? NO.

HENCE THIS BEING A NON F*CKING ISSUE for us.

Amen.

[Durandal]

its a non issue, assualt rifles where banned before 94 and will be banned after the sunset this year. the democrates used the name "assualt weapon" to confuse people and scare then to try and gain support.

but a "assualt weapon" is a semi automatic rifle which has some irrelivent to crime but deemed "evil" features.

among them,

the color black, i still dont understand the longic behind that one.

pistol grips, suposedly aides in 'Killing little children" even thought that is completely untrue.

a bayonet lug, again dont understandthe resoning, when was the last tiem you heard of someone being bayoneted on the news?

berral under 16inches. probly the most logical oen on here is a smidge of lgic behind it, but what is teh point with pistols remain legal and they are much more easy to conceal then any rifle.

and a few others that are equally as pointless.

I hate to go out and bash a fellow pro-gun supporter but...

You are quite uninformed.

Color of the gun is irrelevant in the 1994 AWB or ANY federal law.

Barrel length is not 1994 AWB issue. It is handled under the Class III FFL and has been a law for nearly 90 years...or so.

As a pro-gun activist, I would also enjoy it if you could make you post coherent. Spell checking is not that difficult. While some spelling errors are acceptable, every fifth word is ridiculous. It does little to provide a positive image of the pro-gun owner or supporter. Rather than fall into the "popular image" of the backwoods illiterate hillbilly, step up and sound like you know what you are talking about AND know how to say it...

...or just keep a tight lip and nod you head in agreement if you have trouble doing that.

[Herrmannek]

Will high-cap magazines also be allowed?

[Durandal]

High-cap mags are allowed right now...they were grandfathered in. You are not allowed to use high-cap mags manufactured AFTER 1994.

Here is the skinny.

The AWB of 1994 was on Bill Clinton's desk for TWO weeks, while he was out of the office. During those two weeks manufacturers pumped out "pre-ban" stuff by the boatload.

Because the law "grandfathers" ANY weapon manufactured before the day it was signed into being. Thus, you have post-ban and pre-ban weapons and pre-ban high capacity mags and post-ban low capacity mags (the high capacity being either military or law enforcement ONLY sales if made AFTER Sept 13 1994).

Add to this that you can use post ban weapons with pre-ban magazines and you wonder why this law was EVER even thought up...the people that made this law were idiots...but they also allowed gun owners to prove that these same weapons were irrelevant when it came to National levels of violent crime. Which is the enjoyable irony to the entire mess...

And you wonder why there are not a bunch of felons right now...the guns laws in this nation are so damn twisted that you can sneeze and suddenly you gun is legal...or illegal depending on where you live.

Its nuts.

[Pandy]

The assault ban is something like, if the rifle has more then two futures, it is an "assault weapon."

Bayont Lug
High Cap Magazines made after 1994. (Anything more then 10 rounds is called "High Cap Magazine." )
Folding Stock
Pistol Grip
Flash-hider.

If ANY Rifle has two features, it's an "assault weapon." So that means... One of four SKS rifles I have (Russian) is fitted for an 20 round magazine... with an bayont. So it's an "assault weapon." to the anti-gun people.

Ain't that a bitch. rofl

[Herrmannek]

So new made high caps willn't be allowed after expiration?

[Pandy]

To my understanding, you can make new magazines higher then 10 rounds after the ban.,

[Durandal]

So new made high caps willn't be allowed after expiration?

High-cap mags are covered under the 1994 AWB, so if the law sunsets, Yes, high-cap mags will be allowed.

UNLESS, you live in a state like California that has its own high-cap laws...or cities like Cincinnati, Ohio, where the State allows UP TO 30 round high-cap mags, BUT the city has a complete ban on ALL high-cap mags, pistol or rifle.

Makes ya nuts sometimes.

Depending on what guns I take with me to the range I have to drive a different route to actually AVOID Cincinnati, because the guns suddenly become illegal for 8 miles of the trip.

Idiocy.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Can this ban be extended for a further period of time if it is seen fit to do so and what would the likely reaction be from the gun owning public.

[Geezah]

Can this ban be extended for a further period of time if it is seen fit to do so and what would the likely reaction be from the gun owning public.

The AWB will sunset, it's written that way. They would have to put forth a new AWB.
As far as the gun owning communitys reaction, seeing as the only people that are affected by the AWB are the law abiding gun owners they will fight the good fight through the ballot box.

[Herrmannek]

Its cool maybe I will move to the USA then instead of of NZ :). One more thing. Are foreginers alowed to own guns in USA?

[Geezah]

Its cool maybe I will move to the USA then instead of of NZ :). One more thing. Are foreginers alowed to own guns in USA?

I'm a fer-ner, as I'm called in some parts ;) all depends on your status. My Grandfather was a Rear gunner in the B17s, long story short my Father was naturalized 1995, I recieved my greencard 1996 and I'm going for citizenship this year :)

Answer to your question, I currently own an AK-47, AR15(M4A3),Mossberg 500A(12GA), Ruger 10/22, Sig P226(9mm) and Sig P239(9mm) so yes.

[Durandal]

Geezah, do you actually live in the city limits of Dayton?


If anyone has more questions about citizens, non-citizens, legalized immigrants, etc...

Visit here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm


Also a great dource of general firearms information at a Federal level.

I highly reccemend: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/#

For State info.

This is not a source of REAL legal information, just general. As always check with local authorities pertaining to your local gun laws...

[MEGR]

John Finn, who was a cop around our area was killed by a man with a tec9 (which is illegal under the AWB) during christmas 2003.



Lieutenant John Finn
Albany Police Department
New York
End of Watch: Thursday, February 12, 2004

Biographical Info
Age: 37
Tour of Duty: 13 yrs
Badge Number: Not available

Incident Details
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Date of Incident: Tuesday, December 23, 2003
Weapon Used: Not available
Suspect Info: Arrested

Lieutenant Finn succumbed to gunshot wounds sustained 6 weeks earlier during a foot chase of a robbery suspect. During the chase, the suspect turned around and opened fire, striking Lieutenant Finn three times. One of the rounds was stopped by his vest, one struck him in the leg, and the third entered his torso between two panels of the vest. The officer was able to return fire and struck the suspect in the chest several times, wounding him. Lieutenant Finn was transported to Albany Medical Center Hospital where he remained in critical condition until his death 6 weeks later.

The suspect was originally charged with attempted murder, but will face revised charges as a result of Lieutenant Finn's death.

Lieutenant Finn had served with the Albany Police Department for 13 years. He is survived by his wife and two daughters.

[Durandal]

The Tek-9 is only illegal IF made after Sept 13 1994 OR an automatic...

I am not familiar with all of New York's State level gun laws, so it might be handled under one of those.

The Assault Weapons Ban did NOT make previously owned weapons illegal. They were grandfathered.

[Geezah]

Geezah, do you actually live in the city limits of Dayton?


No, I live in Xenia, home of the Tornados but it's easier just to say Dayton seeing as I work in Miamisburg which is considered Dayton.

Also I'm a Resident Alien and have to put my INS# on the 4473 everytime, no biggie, I get delayed everytime any way.

As far as living in directly in Dayton, I don't see that happening anytime soon because then I wouldn't be able to own hicaps mags for my firearms ;)

[Durandal]

Yeah, Ohio Sucks like that...

Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, and I believe Toledo all have that. Every major city in Ohio has hi-cap bans which I think is confusing to your average gun owner as well unconstitutional (State)...but no one has taken it on so....

*shrug*

No one here (Cincinnati) has ever been arrested under the law however. Guns are confiscated, which is still bad enough...

One og hte reasons why I moved across the River to Covington, KY. Same area, different gun laws and taxes. We normally shoot in Ohio on a private range that we have been slowly building over the past two years. Its in Hamilton County, which, besides hunting laws, is the same as the rest of the state when it comes to gun ownership...

Just can't get pulled over in Cincinnati.

[Geezah]

Yeah, Ohio Sucks like that...

Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, and I believe Toledo all have that. Every major city in Ohio has hi-cap bans which I think is confusing to your average gun owner as well unconstitutional (State)...but no one has taken it on so....

*shrug*

No one here (Cincinnati) has ever been arrested under the law however. Guns are confiscated, which is still bad enough...

One og hte reasons why I moved across the River to Covington, KY. Same area, different gun laws and taxes. We normally shoot in Ohio on a private range that we have been slowly building over the past two years. Its in Hamilton County, which, besides hunting laws, is the same as the rest of the state when it comes to gun ownership...

Just can't get pulled over in Cincinnati.

Hey Durandel,

Check your PM.