Black-focused school endorsed

[h22chen]

Community representatives say they're `united' on controversial plan
Feb 08, 2008 04:30 AM
Louise Brown
Education Reporter
A dozen groups have thrown their support behind an alternative Africentric school, stressing it would not be segregation, as Premier Dalton McGuinty has charged, but a way to "re-integrate" disengaged kids back into public schooling.
Students, teachers, activists and professors held a news conference yesterday at Queen's Park to support the controversial proposal adopted last week by the Toronto District School Board. They stressed that the school will not be exclusively for black students and teachers, and will enrich, not bypass, the Ontario curriculum.
"We understand the premier has an opinion, but we're excited about this school," said Grace-Edward Galabuzi, assistant professor of politics and public administration at Ryerson University. "It's a way of trying to re-integrate those young people who are disengaged back into public education."
Among the groups who hailed the alternative Africentric school yesterday are the Jane-Finch Concerned Citizens, the Jamaican-Canadian Association, the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists, African Canadian Heritage Association, the Canadian Alliance of Black Educators, the Ontario Parents of Black Children, the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants, the Ontario Federation of Labour, the Black Action Defence League and the Canadian Arab Federation.
"Our community is not strongly divided on this issue – our community is united," Galabuzi added, "although there are some who disagree, but that's not unlike any other community."
McGuinty has said he is disappointed Toronto trustees have chosen to launch an Africentric alternative school as a way to battle a 40 per cent dropout rate among black students.
He says he favours keeping students of all backgrounds together in public schools.
But Galabuzi noted Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Ontario Human Rights Code allow programs to be offered to specific groups, including racial groups, if they are meant to help compensate for a disadvantage.
"Equal treatment does not mean same treatment. Sometimes you have to do things differently for some groups to ensure equitable outcomes," said Galabuzi.
Krystle Skeete, 24, who has just graduated from York University in sociology, says she supports the idea because she remembers being inspired by a black teacher who taught her about such African-Canadians as pioneer newspaper publisher Mary Ann Shadd – lessons often not taught in mainstream schools.
"I think we should do everything; have anti-racist curriculum in all schools but also try an Africentric alternative school," said Skeete yesterday at the news conference. "Some schools don't teach black history at all. I know one 17-year-old who doesn't know who Nelson Mandela is. Yet look at the United States, where Africentric schools and black colleges do really well."
Parent Donna Harrow, one of the proponents of the school, said she is frustrated people keep claiming the school would be segregated. "It will be the Ontario curriculum enhanced by Africentric materials and a study of world history," she said yesterday.
Louis March has been running Saturday classes in Africentric and Jamaican enrichment for 39 years in Toronto and says he has watched an awareness of cultural heritage boost the esteem and academic success of thousands of black students.

"When they see themselves in the curriculum, it gives them a fighting chance; they walk tall and talk proud."



http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/301612

[Albatross]

WOW! This is completely ridiculous. The Canadian version of the A.C.L.U. is going to be all over this, if there was a european focused school you can just see Rev. Al Sharpton jumping up and down.

Wow.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

"Some schools don't teach black history at all. I know one 17-year-old who doesn't know who Nelson Mandela is."


Horrors! Exactly how does knowing about Nelson Mandela enable one to succeed in a techno-centric society? Unless these kids intend to go live in Africa, I don't see how giving them an "Africentric" education is doing them any favors. These people seem more concerned with preparing kids to effectively ride the wave of eternal victim-hood, and milk the system for all it's worth, rather than preparing them to succeed in the real world.

[vinny_121_ND]

Well, the argument was that half of all black students weren't even graduating high school in toronto. That's a pretty high number. Will having a black school help them all graduate?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Well there might be something to having an all-black school. Sometimes eliminating distractions goes a long way to getting kids focused. IMHO they should also have school uniforms and strict rules on behavior too. I'm just saying that what's taught in the school had better be something useful, not this idiotic Africentric fairy tale. They should emerge from the school ready to enter a major University on par with any other high school kid, with good math and English skills - not just ready to quote chapter and verse about how society owes them something.

[ex1cdo]

Well, I never thought that basic facts like

- what does 2+2 add up to,
- where do you find Vancouver on a map, or
- how do you spell "ridiculous"

had anything to do with whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, or even tangerine.

But I'm just old fashioned and out of touch, I guess.

Good luck to them. If this experiment fails (as I suspect it will), maybe they'll start thinking about the real reasons for lack of academic achievement amongst certain groups....

[shocker1]

" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Maybe they can Study an American civil rights leader. I have a very low opinion of race based schooling. We have them here and it is the opposite of equality.

[Firetxmi]

If this experiment fails (as I suspect it will), maybe they'll start thinking about the real reasons for lack of academic achievement amongst certain groups....

Which is what in your opinion?

[Dasein]

Horrors! Exactly how does knowing about Nelson Mandela enable one to succeed in a techno-centric society? Unless these kids intend to go live in Africa, I don't see how giving them an "Africentric" education is doing them any favors. These people seem more concerned with preparing kids to effectively ride the wave of eternal victim-hood, and milk the system for all it's worth, rather than preparing them to succeed in the real world.

One could say the same thing about Churchill or Franklin Roosevelt or any other number of historic figures. Why bother with English? With History? With anything other than sciences, math and computer literacy?

[ex1cdo]

Which is what in your opinion?

Poverty, broken families, lack of role models at home, a disconnect with mainstream society, village mentality, and adulation of gangsta culture that leads to criminal activity are all problems in a certain area of Toronto that is notorious for its low academic achievement for black youth. And it's not that there's a lack of programmes or facilities (althought I'm certain they could be improved) in the area, but some of these factors prevent many people from taking advantage of them.

It's not that these kids aren't smart enough, it's that they're not motivated enough. There are certain things that you need to understand and master to succeed on a modern technological society, and these things are not predicated on "race" (to use a loaded term).

Sure, if you want to learn about Nelson Mandela, that's great. Everyone should learn about Nelson Mandela. You should probably learn about the Dali Lama and Sir Winston Churchill, too. I just don't see how you can make the essentials of a basic education focused on race or ethnicity or any other distinction. Nor do I see how, in as diverse a society ours is, can segregating children, even voluntarily, be a good thing for anyone. It just leads to people living their lives in ethnic (yes, that includes those of us of European descent as well) enclaves out of ignorance and fear.

[Mr.K]

WOW! This is completely ridiculous. The Canadian version of the A.C.L.U. is going to be all over this, if there was a european focused school you can just see Rev. Al Sharpton jumping up and down.

Wow.

I went to a private french school, with the european program and everything, plus we had all the compliments from the public school program. It exists since 1936 and there were no canadian Al Sharptons or ACLU jumping up and down.

My grade school was an "alternative" one, baisically it encouraged the child's creativity, in other words, kids were praised for whatever they did, and of couse we didn't do much. I had a hard time getting to the private and adjusting myself to a stricter and more demanding system. I think alternative schools are a bad idea in general.
If you want a school with a "flavor" you should go to a private one.

[Firetxmi]

Poverty, broken families, lack of role models at home, a disconnect with mainstream society, village mentality, and adulation of gangsta culture that leads to criminal activity are all problems in a certain area of Toronto that is notorious for its low academic achievement for black youth. And it's not that there's a lack of programmes or facilities (althought I'm certain they could be improved) in the area, but some of these factors prevent many people from taking advantage of them.

It's not that these kids aren't smart enough, it's that they're not motivated enough. There are certain things that you need to understand and master to succeed on a modern technological society, and these things are not predicated on "race" (to use a loaded term).

Sure, if you want to learn about Nelson Mandela, that's great. Everyone should learn about Nelson Mandela. You should probably learn about the Dali Lama and Sir Winston Churchill, too. I just don't see how you can make the essentials of a basic education focused on race or ethnicity or any other distinction. Nor do I see how, in as diverse a society ours is, can segregating children, even voluntarily, be a good thing for anyone. It just leads to people living their lives in ethnic (yes, that includes those of us of European descent as well) enclaves out of ignorance and fear.

While I don't agree with every aspect of your assessment I can certainly agree with some of it.

I am sure some of the onus needs to be put on "the system" as well. While not completely apropos to this circumstance I will use the IQ test as an example. The IQ test is very culturally biased. If you were to give the same IQ test that you and I would take to someone in Africa they would score extraordinarily low. Not because they are less intelligent, but because the test is not geared towards their culture and is not an accurate representation of their intelligence.

With that said, I do not think that separate schooling is the answer, and has its own flaws. My only reason for bringing inequities in the system up is to get people to think about the fact that it is a multicausational issue and isn't just the person or the culture or said people.

[oldsoak]

Horrors! Exactly how does knowing about Nelson Mandela enable one to succeed in a techno-centric society? Unless these kids intend to go live in Africa, I don't see how giving them an "Africentric" education is doing them any favors. These people seem more concerned with preparing kids to effectively ride the wave of eternal victim-hood, and milk the system for all it's worth, rather than preparing them to succeed in the real world.

:lol:

- 2sheds, dont you know that learning about Nelson Mandela is fundamental, I tell you, fundamental to the understanding of the impact he had on Canadian society in the 60's. Without him, Canada would not have been the same in those
vital years, without him the French Canadians would not have a vote.....hello, are you taking me seriously ?

[usa320]

Poverty, broken families, lack of role models at home, a disconnect with mainstream society, village mentality, and adulation of gangsta culture that leads to criminal activity are all problems in a certain area of Toronto that is notorious for its low academic achievement for black youth. And it's not that there's a lack of programmes or facilities (althought I'm certain they could be improved) in the area, but some of these factors prevent many people from taking advantage of them.

It's not that these kids aren't smart enough, it's that they're not motivated enough. There are certain things that you need to understand and master to succeed on a modern technological society, and these things are not predicated on "race" (to use a loaded term).

Sure, if you want to learn about Nelson Mandela, that's great. Everyone should learn about Nelson Mandela. You should probably learn about the Dali Lama and Sir Winston Churchill, too. I just don't see how you can make the essentials of a basic education focused on race or ethnicity or any other distinction. Nor do I see how, in as diverse a society ours is, can segregating children, even voluntarily, be a good thing for anyone. It just leads to people living their lives in ethnic (yes, that includes those of us of European descent as well) enclaves out of ignorance and fear.


x2...

I think ultimately black culture is under assault by broken families, and poor morals and examples being pushed by pop culture... The education system to get these kids on the right track is there... the problem lies in that they have no motivation to do so when popular culture tells them its much cooler to head down the wrong path... and they lack the strong family at home to push them in the right direction...

Truley, they have more equality now as a race than they ever have had before... instead of taking advantage of the equality and becomming engaged and productive, they continue to suffer from lack of will power and the comfortability with victim-hood and entitlement which has been the norm for years...

What needs to happen or for black leaders to stop perpeutating decade old racial tensions... and to stand up with productive black folks and start a serious effort to not only educate, but more importantly motivate, their youth into making themselves a viable force in academia the workplace and society as a whole.


I certainly passionately support efforts to help out disadvantaged black youth in bad neighborhoods.... but i totally disagree with how folks are going about doing it... its about motivation... not entitlement.

stop giving it to them... teach them how to get it themselves.

[Albatross]

My understanding is that this was to be a public school. Am I incorrect in my assupmtion?



I went to a private french school, with the european program and everything, plus we had all the compliments from the public school program. It exists since 1936 and there were no canadian Al Sharptons or ACLU jumping up and down.

My grade school was an "alternative" one, baisically it encouraged the child's creativity, in other words, kids were praised for whatever they did, and of couse we didn't do much. I had a hard time getting to the private and adjusting myself to a stricter and more demanding system. I think alternative schools are a bad idea in general.
If you want a school with a "flavor" you should go to a private one.

[SBL]

x2...

I think ultimately black culture is under assault by broken families, and poor morals and examples being pushed by pop culture... The education system to get these kids on the right track is there... the problem lies in that they have no motivation to do so when popular culture tells them its much cooler to head down the wrong path... and they lack the strong family at home to push them in the right direction...



Well, yes and no. It kind of depends on where you live. For instance, kids that grew up where I did, enjoyed the benefits of an above-par school system. But I've also been down in Alabama, and in parts of Baltimore and have seen some pretty gnarly schools. The type of schools where there are broken windows and no a/c. In light of that, I can understand how someone might be more easily persuaded to do things the BET way.

[IraGlacialis]

I have no problem with this school as long as these guidelines are set.

Anybody can come in no matter the race.
No sense of entitlement is fostered. Embellishing or extreme-biased teaching of historical/social subjects goes under this.
Core required curriculum is indentical to those found in the "white" neighborhoods. All other classes are secondary.

[VPR]

Watson said that blacks arent as smart, coupled with their lack of ambition and tendency towards crime, and we have the result we see today

[oldsoak]

Eh ?
- thats too wide sweeping a statement.
Firstly, we have to admit theres a problem for us to be able to solve it. Secondly, we need to educate in what is really going to help. A kid off the street will benefit far more from learning a saleable trade than some high faluting factoid thats as much use as b*ll*x on a bride. Teach 'em plumbing, electrician, welding - nothing makes you feel as good about yourself as earning a fair wage.

[little icebear]

Some schools don't teach black history at all. I know one 17-year-old who doesn't know who Nelson Mandela is.

I bet it won´t be very difficult to find a white/black/purple :roll: 17-year-old who doesn´t know who Ronald Reagan is...

So what? Is it really a new phenomenon that there are lots of kids that lack interest in / are totally ignorant about history, politics, geographie... list to be continued...?

People fought so long in order to end racial segregation and now that?! WTF? :bash:

[Clayton Gold]

I am dead against this, and I wrote to the premier to express my disgust.

We just had an election here, where the issue was segregation in schools. The premier was against it, and he won. Now that this is going to happen, he refuses to show leadership, stick to his guns, and take action to stop this.

Ghettoizing these kids further is going to solve nothing, it will only make the problem worse. Teaching them "afro-centric", instead of Canadian ways, when most of them are not even from Africa will only cause further isolation, not integration into the community.

I have been to these neighborhoods, and seen the conditions these people live in. Unless they get to the root causes, which is the fcuked up family life, and culture of hopelessness that these kids live in, this school will only irritate the problem.

It bothers me deeply that people fought for decades to do away with this type of thinking, and now it is all being thrown away.

[swamper]

Horrors! Exactly how does knowing about Nelson Mandela enable one to succeed in a techno-centric society? Unless these kids intend to go live in Africa, I don't see how giving them an "Africentric" education is doing them any favors. These people seem more concerned with preparing kids to effectively ride the wave of eternal victim-hood, and milk the system for all it's worth, rather than preparing them to succeed in the real world.

I hear ya. And, looking at the part you quoted about someone 17 years old not knowing who Nelson Mandela is, I've known 18 year olds who don't know from where the term "minute men" came.

[vinny_121_ND]

I don't understand. Why are the asian kids doing well, and the black kids aren't? Why is there money being poured into black history, and none for the asian history?

[Skutatos]

Well there might be something to having an all-black school. Sometimes eliminating distractions goes a long way to getting kids focused. IMHO they should also have school uniforms and strict rules on behavior too. I'm just saying that what's taught in the school had better be something useful, not this idiotic Africentric fairy tale. They should emerge from the school ready to enter a major University on par with any other high school kid, with good math and English skills - not just ready to quote chapter and verse about how society owes them something.

I cant tell you how much I agree with this. The education system these days is worthless, it prepared me for nothing. Also history is something that needs to be taught with greater emphasis, it can give people a greater sense of unity.

[oldsoak]

I don't understand. Why are the asian kids doing well, and the black kids aren't? Why is there money being poured into black history, and none for the asian history?

- cause asians are the new whites and therefore uncool ?

We have had an uncomfortable fact surface in the UK - Asians and whites are doing better than Afro-Carribean. Chucked a spanner in the works for the schools-are-racist apologists.

[LoboCanada]

I go to school near Toronto. I have had class discussions on this issue in all of my classes (7 in 2 semesters). African Canadian students do have a higher dropout rate than thier numerous other ethnic groups. The school is not meant to be "dumbed down" so that they can pass/have better grades, it's hoping that if they get interested in what they're studying, then they'll want to learn= better grades. This makes sense, as the subjects you are interested in you generally do better in. This is understandable, but spending $900,000 to segregate each other is not worth it. From the various opinions of my classmates and my teachers, we think that having different ethic group's history/art/culture become subjects and give the students a choice, w/o making a new school and causing all of this. As it is done with schools with more of an ethnic group enroling (Northern Ontario, First Nations) there are more subjects that focus on their respective cultures. Only ONE (1) afrocentric school is being built, and it is a trial run. If this school is built and is caught on, then there will be calls for nativecentric schools and so on. It makes no sense.

Sorry for the superlong post, its been a HUGE subject in my school as wella s in others due to the proximitiy to Toronto. Any questions on the subject should/could be directed at me, not to sound harsh.

[LaoSexMachine]

I don't understand. Why are the asian kids doing well, and the black kids aren't? Why is there money being poured into black history, and none for the asian history?

Alot has to do with not disappointing your parents and in Asian culture education is taken seriously. Don't forget family honor.

[Mu-Meson]

"Equal treatment does not mean same treatment. Sometimes you have to do things differently for some groups to ensure equitable outcomes," said Galabuzi.So we have gone from the right of equal opportunity to the right of equal outcomes. Why bother with grades at all then, since they are only discriminatory. Heck, get rid of schools all together since they are mean to the lazy, slothful, and stupid people. The next logical step would be to confiscate everyones money, and redistribute is 'deomcratically' so that they lazy, slothful, and stupid are not 'victimized' in the real world. Oh wait, lots of people already want to do that.

[tbk107]

I go to school near Toronto. I have had class discussions on this issue in all of my classes (7 in 2 semesters). African Canadian students do have a higher dropout rate than thier numerous other ethnic groups. The school is not meant to be "dumbed down" so that they can pass/have better grades, it's hoping that if they get interested in what they're studying, then they'll want to learn= better grades. This makes sense, as the subjects you are interested in you generally do better in. This is understandable, but spending $900,000 to segregate each other is not worth it. From the various opinions of my classmates and my teachers, we think that having different ethic group's history/art/culture become subjects and give the students a choice, w/o making a new school and causing all of this. As it is done with schools with more of an ethnic group enroling (Northern Ontario, First Nations) there are more subjects that focus on their respective cultures. Only ONE (1) afrocentric school is being built, and it is a trial run. If this school is built and is caught on, then there will be calls for nativecentric schools and so on. It makes no sense.

Sorry for the superlong post, its been a HUGE subject in my school as wella s in others due to the proximitiy to Toronto. Any questions on the subject should/could be directed at me, not to sound harsh.

We already have an aboriginals only school in Toronto. It is a complete failure with something like 1/3rd of students being suspended for violence and not a single grade 3 student passing the provincial reading test. We also have a gay and lesbian only school and few other 'special' schools that I can't remember at this time.


Some of the people advocating for this school are nothing but racist's but they'll never be called on it because their black.




Yes: The issue for students is not separation but confidence
....
On the other hand, I'm not certain the truth about history will do much to enhance the cultural esteem of white students, though perhaps ultimately, that's what we need – for black people feel a little better about themselves and for white people to feel a little worse.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/300050





During Tuesday night's meeting – where the issue was debated and narrowly approved 11-9 – Trustees Josh Matlow and Stephnie Payne say they were subjected to taunts and name-calling, some of it racist, sexist and anti-Semitic.
After the vote, Payne, the only opposing black trustee, says someone told her: "Shame, shame, you should be f------ shot."

During the vote, Payne, in Matlow's hearing, was accused of being a "sellout" to the black community and "whitewashed."
Yesterday, Matlow said one member of the gallery swore at him and said, "We're going to shut the Jewish schools." Another person came down the hallway after him, making the same threat. Anti-Semitic comments were again made during a conversation between Matlow and three others at board headquarters on Wednesday night.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/299809



Here's what the mother of a 15 year old who was shot in his high school has to say about the new school


Loreen Small, whose son Jordan Manners, 15, was gunned down inside his Toronto school last year, won't be swayed in her opposition to an Africentric school, and gave an emotional speech at Tuesday's board meeting.
"How am I supposed to feel better?" she asked the next morning. "It stinks. It sucks. It's so wrong. We don't need a black school because that's segregation."
Her voice breaking, she asked: "Where would my son have gone to school? Jordan was a mixed-race child. You tell me that."



http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/299809

[ex1cdo]

Watson said that blacks arent as smart, coupled with their lack of ambition and tendency towards crime, and we have the result we see today

Well, there are many people who put forth such drivel. Just because Watson was co-author of a seminal paper on the double helix structure of DNA doesn't make him infallible.

There are plenty of academics who come up with these sorts of conclusions. Phillipe Rushton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton) had some quirky views on race and intelligence that also tied in ****** mores. Fortunately, he has slid into obscurity.

[hughdotoh]

Alot has to do with not disappointing your parents and in Asian culture education is taken seriously. Don't forget family honor.

Besides, Asians leave it to parents to teach culture. If the culture involves outsmarting everyone else in school, then tough luck to all others, whatever the color.

I would find it offensive if some rich white Berkeley hippie whose own sole experience in Asia was yoga-ing it out in Bhutan, would be teaching Asian history & culture to Asians.

17-year old kid never heard of Mandela in school? That's ignorance and laziness at work. if that kid had any drive, he would have learned about Shaka Zulu, Buthelezi, Cetewayo, and all other African leaders of merit on his own. Leadership in Africa has a bigger pool than Mandela, and even Mandela would agree with me.

[Dominique]

Watson said that blacks arent as smart, coupled with their lack of ambition and tendency towards crime, and we have the result we see today

When I saw several of your other posts I thought you were an idiot, after reading this, I know your an idiot. How the hell do you figure that blacks have a "lack of ambition and tendency towards crime"? I'm dying to hear your well thought out explanation. And I'm sure you've got the scientific data to prove it stud. If anything it's morons like you than make me want to rethink my stance on abortion.