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Lion of War
02-10-2008, 09:01 AM
http://pamirs.org/images/panoramas/new/Wakhan%20from%20Yamchun.jpg

http://tajik.info/gallery/images/ishkashim%20(12).jpg
Tajikistan: Officials Say Swastika Part Of Their Aryan Heritage
By Gulnoza Saidazimova (Saidazimovag@rferl.org) http://gdb.rferl.org/9a170f94-5af8-449c-8af0-1d255f5b9433_w220.jpgA Tajik emblem that is based on the swastika(RFE/RL)
Like other post-Soviet countries, Tajikistan has taken a fresh look its history following independence in 1991. The result is a state campaign to promote the notion that the Tajiks as a Aryan nation – and the widespread use of the swastika.


Prague, 16 December 2005 (RFE/RL) -- The swastika may be known the world over as the symbol of Nazi Germany and it may be banned in some states for that reason, but in Tajikistan it appears on placards, banners, and billboards with the blessing of the state.

For officials in Dushanbe, the swastika is above all a symbol of national identity. Most Tajik historians now maintain that Tajiks are of Aryan origin, and argue that Aryan or Indo-European civilization must therefore be studied and promoted. It is an argument now accepted by the state. Indeed, the revival of Aryan culture is now official policy of Dushanbe: 2006 will be celebrated in Tajikistan as the year of Aryan civilization.

Changing Interpretations

The authorities say the swastika’s now widespread adoption in Tajikistan has nothing to do with Nazism and fascism. “Throughout history, interpretations of this symbol have changed,” notes Abduhakim Sharipov, head of a department in the Soghd regional administration. He, like other officials, emphasizes the swastika is a symbol of Aryan culture that has existed for many centuries. “We all know that fascism used this symbol for its purposes. This symbol therefore carries negative connotations for many… we should not limit ourselves to only one interpretation.”

When the swastika first appeared, in India, it was as a sign of eternity and eternal motion. The newer, positive connotations that the Tajik authorities want the swastika to gain were outlined two years ago by President Imomali Rakhmonov when he declared 2006 the year of Aryan culture: the aim of the year is, he said, to “study and popularize Aryan contributions to the history of the world civilization; to raise a new generation [of Tajiks] with the spirit of national self-determination; and to develop deeper ties with other ethnicities and cultures.”

Linguistically, the Tajiks are closely tied to the Persians, who since ancient times have used the term Aryan to describe themselves and their language.

The Tajik historian and ethnographer Usto Jahonov supports both the state’s desire to raise awareness of Tajikistan’s Aryan heritage and the use of the swastika. Using an argument employed by Tajik officials in numerous speeches, Jahonov contends that it is an inherent part of Aryan culture and a key to building national identity. A stronger national identity is itself “needed now because we live among [non-Aryan,] Turkic nations” that are, he says, rewriting “their history by claiming that they emerged in this area [Central Asia]. We should therefore go back to Aryan history, demonstrate and prove to others where our place is. Each nation should know its place.”

[B]An Ancient Symbol In The Shadow Of A Modern Taboo
But it is hard to rid the swastika of its negative associations. For many people in the West, the swastika is a taboo, synonymous as it is with Nazism, fascism, and white supremacy in general. Post-war Germany outlawed the swastika and other Nazi symbols for all but scholarly purposes.

Continued sensitivities were highlighted earlier this year when Britain’s Prince Harry was criticized for wearing a Nazi swastika armband and a Nazi uniform to a fancy-dress party. The incident led to calls from German politicians for a ban on all Nazi symbols across the European Union, which was then followed by a debate in the European Commission in Brussels.
For similar reasons, the new prominence of the swastika is touching on sensitivities in Tajikistan, recently prompting a group of Tajik World War II veterans to write a letter to Rakhmonov asking him to end the use of the swastika.

The Tajik president has so far not responded.
http://gdb.rferl.org/9159C0DC-C5D3-4182-B3B0-D7D1782B2FA8.jpg

“I am a veteran of World War II,” says one Tajik former member of the Soviet army. “We veterans demand that this fascist cross, the swastika, be removed from placards. We fought against the Nazis, who had the swastika. Why should we propagate it now?”

The use of the swastika by skinheads has made the symbol even more controversial in recent years.

Due to high levels of unemployment and poverty, many Tajiks have had to work as illegal migrant laborers abroad, overwhelmingly in Russia. Many have been subjected to harassment and intimidation. Several have been killed by racist groups in recent years.

The most prominent case was the murder, in February 2004, of a 9-year-old Tajik girl in St. Petersburg by a group of teenagers armed with chains, metal rods and knives. Khursheda Sultanova’s father and her 11-year-old cousin were also savagely beaten.

Divided Opinions

This and other cases have provoked public outrage in Tajik society.
For one woman interviewed, both objections to the swastika originate close to home. “My grandfather died in a battle against Nazi Germany,” she told RFE/RL, and “last year, my neighbor’s son was killed by a group of skinheads in Russia.”

“I am amazed to see [the swastika]. Why does our government recover and propagate the [hooked] cross now?”
This Tajik woman says she welcomes a rediscovery of the Tajik nation’s history. But, she argues, historians should not forget the nation’s recent past just to revive its ancient heritage.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/12/27f36005-4b37-4ada-87e0-034f33867c8e.html

vinny_121_ND
02-10-2008, 11:11 AM
this symbol has been used in religion like hinduisim and buddhism. Far earlier than when the nazis adopted it.

Ordie
02-10-2008, 11:20 AM
The Aryan Brotherhood (AB) is a violent prison gang in California. Anything with the term "Aryan" is quickly associated with racism and violence.

Not a term to be used lightly if a country wants better relations with the West.

Miles.
02-10-2008, 11:59 AM
The term "Aryan" has a negative connotation, we all know that.

I have to admit, I am ignorant about this term. Aryans migrated south from Norway, in four different directions?

Somalimafia
02-10-2008, 12:03 PM
Aryans migrated south from Norway, in four different directions?

I am sure the University of Oklahoma is very proud of having you.

Miles.
02-10-2008, 12:23 PM
Does that mean I'm wrong?

Because I don't know.

JJC
02-10-2008, 12:36 PM
It's interesting how a lot of Central Asian ,former CIS states, are trying to redefine themselves. The races have been so mixed with constant migrations, wars, and conquests through out the ages in that region, that I don't think there are"pure" Aryans around these days.

Interesting that those women in the pics don't have the traditional Tajik unibrow painted with that green dye.

Macs.
02-10-2008, 02:27 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

SineJustitia
02-10-2008, 02:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

Warning. Spoiler ahead.

So much for the wild speculations about Aryanism... Although I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of Aryans, just south of Oslo.

Lion of War
02-10-2008, 02:53 PM
The term "Aryan" has a negative connotation, we all know that.

I have to admit, I am ignorant about this term. Aryans migrated south from Norway, in four different directions?

In Zoroastrian Avestan they say that ancient homeland Airyanam Vaejo.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/indoeuropean%20language%20diffusion.gif

Ordie
02-10-2008, 02:59 PM
In Zoroastrian Avestan they say that ancient homeland Airyanam Vaejo.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/indoeuropean%20language%20diffusion.gif

It looks like a Armenian invasion.

jetsetter
02-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Quite a few government buildings and churches built before the late 1930s and 1940s incorporate the Swastika in their exterior and interior designs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Arizona_highway_marker.jpg

Arizona state highway marker from late 1920s.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Native_American_basketball_team.jpg

Native American basketball team in 1909.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/45th_Infantry_insignia_%28swastika%29.svg/579px-45th_Infantry_insignia_%28swastika%29.svg.png

Original insignia of the 45th Infantry Division (from the American Indian symbol).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/319066274_46348db9f7.jpg

US Department of Agriculture building in D.C.

Lion of War
02-10-2008, 03:30 PM
Prior to WW-2 "Aryan" was also used in the West.Especially when describing Iran then Persia.

Just read this New York Times article.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9804E2D6143DE633A25752C3A9619C94669ED7CF&oref=slogin

khukuri
02-10-2008, 03:47 PM
SO what, I dont get this aryan fetishism... who cares who is really aryan and not.

Lion of War
02-10-2008, 03:50 PM
SO what, I dont get this aryan fetishism... who cares who is really aryan and not.

From the article.Also I can't help it I'm Iranian!


Using an argument employed by Tajik officials in numerous speeches, Jahonov contends that it is an inherent part of Aryan culture and a key to building national identity. A stronger national identity is itself “needed now because we live among [non-Aryan,] Turkic nations” that are, he says, rewriting “their history by claiming that they emerged in this area [Central Asia]. We should therefore go back to Aryan history, demonstrate and prove to others where our place is. Each nation should know its place.”

Switek
02-10-2008, 04:00 PM
This is first "Aryan"

http://www.wiw.pl/Biologia/Ewolucjonizm/EwolucjaCzlowieka/pict/rys00_02small.gif

IMHO :)

Miles.
02-10-2008, 04:11 PM
SO what, I dont get this aryan fetishism... who cares who is really aryan and not.


LOL.

Aryans care, apparently.

rajkhalsa
02-10-2008, 05:41 PM
The word "Arya" in India has no racial connotation. It simply is an ancient word for "noble" or "just." People who were honored by kings had this title, very much like "Sir" in British parlance.

When the nazis tried to justify the notion of the "aryan race" they basically redefined the term to suit their perverted racial hatred.

Pars
02-10-2008, 08:21 PM
The word "Arya" in India has no racial connotation. It simply is an ancient word for "noble" or "just." People who were honored by kings had this title, very much like "Sir" in British parlance.

When the nazis tried to justify the notion of the "aryan race" they basically redefined the term to suit their perverted racial hatred.

In Iran however, it has racial connotation.

Take this qoute from Darius the Great for example:

"I am Darius the great King… A Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage..."

Calanen
02-10-2008, 09:39 PM
this symbol has been used in religion like hinduisim and buddhism. Far earlier than when the nazis adopted it.

You can still find it on the tiled floor of the old Customs building Customs House located at Circular Quay in Sydney. No one believes them when I tell them, but go look for yourself. Swastikas on the tiles, when swastikas were just a trendy symbol, not linked to the Third Reich.

Hollis
02-10-2008, 09:47 PM
It looks like a Armenian invasion.


Looks like someone did not ask for directions.

Rictor
02-10-2008, 09:51 PM
Oh boy, Tajikistan! As I remember, Shah Reza Pahlavi tried that once and it didn't turn out so well.

Pan-Aryanism is about as popular a notion these days as Pan-Slavism. Which is to say not at all.

Ordie
02-10-2008, 10:11 PM
Looks like someone did not ask for directions.

Yeh, it looked liked they avoided the Turks around the Caspian Sea.

gammbino
02-11-2008, 01:13 AM
I thought we had already decided that the entire world is turkish??

IraGlacialis
02-11-2008, 02:18 AM
Yeh, it looked liked they avoided the Turks around the Caspian Sea.
Oh no you di'n't?

Ulytau
02-11-2008, 02:58 AM
What Emomali Rahmon said about this too?About Swastika also used at accident Egypt too..I heard about some knights used it before..

Ordie
02-11-2008, 03:19 AM
What Emomali Rahmon said about this too?About Swastika also used at accident Egypt too..I heard about some knights used it before..

What happened to Rakhmonov? I thought he was the leader?

Ulytau
02-11-2008, 03:38 AM
When i seen Officals only wanted to know what he thinks too :) By the way i wrote ''Rahmon'' cause he changed his surname :)

Marsuitor
02-11-2008, 04:10 AM
Chitral in Pakistan and Nuristan in Afghanistan, also known in the old days as Kafiristan (land of the unbelievers=non-muslims), has some people who looks-wise don't really fit in with the rest of the crew in this part of the world. Some of them to this day (on the Pakistani side of the border) are still polytheists who worship more than one god, as well as spirits and their ancestors.
One of the legends stuck to these people is that they are the direct descendants from Alexander The Great, due to their looks and many of their customs apparently bearing resemblance to ancient Greek stuff, while other people (and not just white supremacists/anti-semites) believe these folks to be the original aryans who since migrated into what is Europe today.
Nothing has been proven, but i don't know myself what these people are doing in this part of the world and why they ended up looking so different from the other folks who live around these parts. It's been more than once in Afgh i've turned sharply to catch a second glimpse at people who looks-wise could have been my neighbour back home in Norway, and they're not all "Russian gifts", as my terp once put it.

Take a look at this online picture gallery of the Kalash-people in Pakistan;
http://www.thealphabetbook.com/Kalash/
http://www.thealphabetbook.com/Kalash/image/img_5149.jpg

Marsuitor
02-11-2008, 05:05 AM
Hmm... I can't put my finger on it, but that video doesn't feel right, despite the interesting photos. With that text-syntax and rune-writing i could easily see this video being a big hit on a number of dubious sites, and why on earth put the German language into a slideshow about Indo-Iranic (Aryan) tribes?

Just my gut-feeling...

EDIT: Only got to see the first minute of that video when i posted the above. Saw the rest of it just now. That video is nothing but nazi-propaganda and takes this whole Aryan-discussion to a level i don't want to be part of. Healthy discussion about ancestry and early migratory patterns of what is today the European people is one thing, so-called "Aryan-pride" and white-supremacy is something completely different and not suited for this site IMHO...

-=P=-
02-11-2008, 06:12 AM
Oh this thread is moving into a direction not suited for MP.net.

Aryan culture ? Ok, but posting pictures of fair looking children...

Marsuitor is right; one can find many different people in Afghanestan agreed.

wilhelm
02-11-2008, 07:43 AM
It is a very interesting video nonetheless.

Pars
02-11-2008, 08:28 AM
Let's not turn this thread in a direction in which it gets closed and people recieve infractions.

Something I found on wikipedia;

Since ancient times, Persians have used the term Aryan as a racial designation in an ethnic sense to describe their lineage and their language, and this tradition has continued into the present day amongst modern Iranians (Encyclopedia Iranica, p. 681, Arya). In fact, the name Iran is a cognate of Aryan and means "Land of the Aryans."

That the word Aryan has negative connotations in the West doesn't really mean it has that other places as well.

Lion of War
02-11-2008, 08:37 AM
Interesting video like the member said.That whole crap that Westerners have about the term is not so here in the East.In Iran we have people named Aryan,bands,stores,banks.I think you get the point.

Cyrus, who was exceptionally tolerant of local religions and local customs and against slavery, is famous for freeing over 42,000 Jewish captives and allowing them to return to their homeland.He is the founder of the Persian Empire.A Aryan as he calls himself and his language is Aryan.

At 1:30 you hear the author say in the heart of the Aryan homeland.This is our culture nothing racist.It is who we are.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4370810649405947458&q=Cyrus+the+Great&total=1080&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

Ordie
02-11-2008, 09:28 AM
Interesting video like the member said.That whole crap that Westerners have about the term is not so here in the East.In Iran we have people named Aryan,bands,stores,banks.I think you get the point.

It's not crap.

Aryan is a metaphor that immediately evokes negative emotions and images of Hitler, racism, prison gangs, hate, and holocaust.

Given "Aryan" President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad anti-semitic, holocaust denial and threatening to wipe out Israel rehtoric continues to support this negative metaphor of Aryans being racists.

Lion of War
02-11-2008, 09:34 AM
It's not crap.

Aryan is a metaphor that immediately evokes negative emotions and images of Hitler, racism, prison gangs, hate, and holocaust.

Given "Aryan" President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad anti-semitic, holocaust denial and threatening to wipe out Israel rehtoric continues to support this negative metaphor of Aryans being racists.

I think he is Azeri? Though not sure.But I would be surprised if he was Persian.He also never said that and thats your opinion on him.My cousins name is Arian.Does that automaticly make him into what you label this term in the Western world?

Iran to set up Aryan bank in Afghanistan

Kabul, Dec 4, IRNA -- A license for establishment of an Iranian bank called 'Aryan bank' was issued Saturday in the capital city of Afghanistan, Kabul.
Head of Afghanistan's Central Bank Anvar al-Haq Ahadi expressed hope that Iran-Afghanistan economic and trade relations would broaden after Aryan bank began its banking operation in Kabul.

http://www.payvand.com/news/04/dec/1031.html

Lion of War
02-11-2008, 09:39 AM
It's not crap.

Aryan is a metaphor that immediately evokes negative emotions and images of Hitler, racism, prison gangs, hate, and holocaust.

Given "Aryan" President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad anti-semitic, holocaust denial and threatening to wipe out Israel rehtoric continues to support this negative metaphor of Aryans being racists.

It's a term even scholars used.But as said it has gotten a bad rep.But it does not also mean you should generalize people.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rYxDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA349&dq=Aryan+Persian#PPA349,M1

LaoSexMachine
02-11-2008, 10:00 AM
music in the vid is gay.