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gammbino
02-14-2008, 01:08 PM
February 12, 2008

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0208/A_list_of_the_unstimulated.html

A list of the unstimulated

The Tax Policy Center estimates that about 10 percent of Americans won’t be getting a rebate check this spring. With the aid of Chad Stone, the chief economist at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, we’ve identified some would-be economic stimulators who are in for some disappointing news:

Disabled people: If you weren’t a veteran, disability itself won’t get you the check, even if you’re living on about $600 a month in public benefits, as many are.

College students and the very poor: If you made less than $3,000 this year, forget about it. Public benefits don’t count—it has to be earned income.

The unemployed: Senate Democrats, joined by some Republicans, tried but failed to include extended unemployment benefits in the package. If you’ve been unemployed all year and didn’t make $3,000, you get nothing.

Tax fudgers: Waiters, cabbies, street vendors, personal trainers and others who work largely in cash may get dinged if they under-report their income. A single taxpayer reporting $14,950 in earnings and taking the standard deduction gets a $600 check; report less and you get less.

Off-the-books earners: Prostitutes, drug dealers and loan sharks may be big indirect recipients of stimulus funds rofl, but they won’t get checks themselves unless they’re reporting their earnings on their 1040s (in which case the lack of rebate checks may be the least of their worries).

Political refugees, foreign workers, green card holders: Congress required a Social Security number to get the stimulating checks, which eliminates folks applying for citizenship who haven’t yet gotten an SSN.

The rich: Last, but certainly not least, the rich get the stimulus shaft. Benefits start to phase out above $75,000 for a single filer and $150,000 for married ones.


This whole plan is retarded, if the recession is going to happen, its going to happen.


Stimulating Nonsense
By John Stossel
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2008/02/13/stimulating_nonsense


The hottest buzzword of the day is "economic stimulus." Virtually every politician and pundit agrees the government must act quickly to forestall a recession by increasing consumer spending. President Bush and the Democratic leadership in the House quickly got together on a $150 billion package that also includes tax incentives for business investment.
The Republican and Democratic presidential contenders back "stimulus" too. (Ron Paul is the exception.)

Any government program that wins the support of the political class and media commentators makes me suspicious.

The economy does seem to be slowing, and there was a net loss of jobs in January. The housing industry is sluggish and the credit market tight because of the subprime-mortgage problems. So, to "get the economy moving," the anointed experts want the government to quickly put cash in our hands. When we rush out to spend it, the story goes, the economy will get out of the ditch.

Interesting theory, but it's hardly new, and it's been demolished many times before by free-market economists. One problem, which George Mason University economist Russell Roberts observed, is that the money that will allegedly be "injected" into the economy is already in the economy. So how can it be a stimulus?

"The politicians are always going to inject some amount of money into the hands of consumers and into the economy, like a doctor giving a lifesaving blood transfusion," Roberts says. "But where does the economic injection come from? It has to come from inside the system. It's not an outside stimulus like the chest paddles or the transfusion. It means taking money from someone or somewhere inside the system and giving it to someone else."

The federal government is in the red. Bush's new budget has a $400 billion deficit. There's no lockbox with $100 billion in it. So to give everyone a tax rebate, the government will have to borrow more money. But that only moves the cash from one part of the economy to another. As Roberts says, "It's like taking a bucket of water from the deep end of a pool and dumping it into the shallow end."

Unless the government cuts spending, which the theory says would neutralize the stimulus, the only other way to get the money will be to raise taxes or to have the Fed create money -- inflation -- which would raise the price of everything.

How will that stimulate anything but the politicians' short-term approval ratings?

Supporters of the stimulus only consider it's "seen" affects. If government takes or borrows money from Jones and gives it to Smith, Smith's spending will be visible for all to see. Not so visible is the "unseen" affect: What Jones would have done with the money but didn't because it was transferred to Smith.

Economists call this the "broken window fallacy." In the 19th century, French economist Frederic Bastiat illustrated it with the story of a boy who breaks a shop window. At first the townspeople lament the loss, but then someone points out that the shopkeeper will have to spend money to replace the window. What the window maker earns, he will soon spend elsewhere. As that money circulates through town, new prosperity will bloom.

The fallacy, of course, is that if the window had not been broken, the shopkeeper would have "replaced his worn-out shoes ... or added another book to his library." The town gains nothing from the broken window.
This logic is lost on the stimulus promoters. I'm surprised they don't suggest that we prevent recessions by breaking lots of windows.
The other forgotten principle is that consumption can't cause prosperity. Yes, consumer spending is 70 percent of GDP, but consumption is the result -- not the cause -- of economic growth. You can't consume what hasn't been produced.

Milton Friedman was right. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. I'm not saying the government can do nothing about the economy. The best thing it can do is get itself out the way. Economies boom when governments remove impediments to production: high taxes, regulations, subsidies, trade barriers, manipulation of the money supply, etc. Removing those should be permanent -- not temporary -- measures.

SBL
02-14-2008, 02:11 PM
Stimulating.

orionhawk
02-14-2008, 02:57 PM
This whole plan is retarded, if the recession is going to happen, its going to happen.
normally I'd agree, but I need the money.

seraosha
02-14-2008, 03:05 PM
normally I'd agree, but I need the money.

Yep, going to finance a second honeymoon to Vegas, baby!

SOG
02-14-2008, 05:06 PM
Minus the missus right!?

shocker1
02-14-2008, 05:10 PM
If I get a check I am going to buy Morgan silver dollars and sit on them. To hell with blowing it on Chinese products at Walmart so the economy will be "stimulated" for numbers to come out in time for Nov. By next Spring we will be in a world of hurt. Mark my words on this the signs are all over.

seraosha
02-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Minus the missus right!?

Nah man, going to make her wear a blond wig and **** me boots.

SOG
02-14-2008, 05:19 PM
Nah man, going to make her wear a blond wig and **** me boots.

LOL, well as long as SOMEONE has a good time!


If I get a check I am going to buy Morgan silver dollars and sit on them. To hell with blowing it on Chinese products at Walmart so the economy will be "stimulated" for numbers to come out in time for Nov. By next Spring we will be in a world of hurt. Mark my words on this the signs are all over.

Why silver as opposed to gold? Just curious.

shocker1
02-14-2008, 05:24 PM
LOL, well as long as SOMEONE has a good time!



Why silver as opposed to gold? Just curious.
Because gold is nearly 900 an ounce and silver has some upwards travel left before it gets too high. I already have a nice collection of gold and silver. I could by a lot of Morgans with $600 bucks.

SOG
02-14-2008, 06:39 PM
I was wondering about that. The price of gold has been going up for years on end. I was wondering if it would ever top out or not. So do you go jewelry shopping or are their places where you can buy small bricks and forego the retail crap?

2Sheds_Jackson
02-14-2008, 06:41 PM
Why is anybody viewing it as unfair that people that didn't pay any taxes to begin with are being deprived of their "refund"?

It's not really a refund anyway. For most people, it's merely a tax cut, and for me, that's always good. For others, who aren't even paying any taxes, it's a bribe, courtesy of their government officials. For the wealthy, it's plain old theft.

Dominique
02-14-2008, 06:45 PM
[QUOTE=2Sheds_Jackson;3047639]Why is anybody viewing it as unfair that people that didn't pay any taxes to begin with are being deprived of their "refund"? [QUOTE]

These are the same people that will tell you it's not fair that since you have more money than "x", you should be forced to give x some of it. After all it's only fair.

shocker1
02-14-2008, 06:47 PM
I was wondering about that. The price of gold has been going up for years on end. I was wondering if it would ever top out or not. So do you go jewelry shopping or are their places where you can buy small bricks and forego the retail crap?
Coins and bullion. You can buy gold in 1 gram bars. Believe it or not some of the best coin deals are on ebay. Best to have a little knowledge about prices and the sellers though.

ronnieraygun
02-14-2008, 08:26 PM
Gold keeps on going and going, since 9/11. It will have a reckoning soon, though.