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View Full Version : Bush to veto Senate ban on waterboarding



ZhukovG
02-14-2008, 11:50 PM
Controversy :S


WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush said Thursday he plans to veto legislation passed by the Senate to bar the CIA from using harsh interrogation methods including waterboarding.
"The reason I'm vetoing the bill -- first of all, we have said that whatever we do ... will be legal," Bush said in an interview with the BBC.
"Secondly, they are imposing a set of standards on our intelligence communities in terms of interrogating prisoners that our people will think will be ineffective."
The Democratic-led Senate voted 51-45 on Wednesday in favor of a bill calling for the Central Intelligence Agency to adopt the US Army Field Manual, which forbids waterboarding and other types of coercive interrogation methods.
However, the vote fell short of the two-thirds majority needed to overcome a presidential veto. The House of Representatives passed similar legislation in December.
"I think the president must give his professionals, within the law, the necessary tools to protect us," Bush said.
Earlier, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the president would veto the measure because "the United States needs the ability to interrogate effectively, within the law, captured Al-Qaeda terrorists."
Democratic New York Senator Charles Schumer said that if Bush "vetoes intelligence authorization, he will be voting in favor of waterboarding."
Asked by a reporter if Bush, who leaves office in 2009, would be labeled as the first US president who favored torture, Perino rejected the assertion and dismissed Schumer's argument as "simplistic."
"Across the board people will see, over time, that this was a president who put in place tools to protect the country against terrorists," Perino said.
"The president does not favor torture. The president favors making sure we do all these programs within the law," she said, adding that "all the interrogations that have taken place in this country have been done in a legal way."
Rights groups have alleged that abuse and torture of detainees routinely take place at secret CIA detention facilities around the globe.
On Wednesday, Cuba demanded that the United States return Guantanamo Bay to the island and denounced the "war on terror" prison, saying suspects have been subjected to torture and face unfair legal treatment.
Separately, a report by professors and students at Seton Hall Law School in New Jersey, citing official documents obtained mostly from the Pentagon under Freedom of Information rules, said some 24,000 interrogations at the US naval base on Cuba's southeastern tip have been videotaped.
"The two CIA tapes that were destroyed were only a tiny fraction of perhaps 24,000 recorded interrogations," the report's authors said, referring to the CIA's admission in December that it had destroyed videotapes showing the interrogations of two presumed terrorists.
The Pentagon did not immediately comment on the report.
Perino said the United States does not currently use waterboarding, a simulated drowning technique denounced by rights groups as torture, even though the CIA has admitted using the technique in the past.
She reiterated the administration's assertion last week that it would not rule out the use of such techniques in the future.
"As we said last week as well, we are not going to talk about what may or may not be lawful in the future."
The Senate bill would limit the CIA and other intelligence agencies to the 19 interrogation techniques outlined in the military's manual. Waterboarding is not among them.
Perino said the intelligence community's view is that the manual sets an inappropriate standard for seasoned CIA interrogators who are working to extract information from sophisticated militant operatives.
"This Army Field Manual is something that is public for all to see, and we know that Al-Qaeda trains to resist interrogation techniques such as those."
Rival Democratic White House hopefuls Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were on the road campaigning and did not take part in the vote Wednesday.
The likely Republican nominee, Arizona Senator John McCain, voted against the bill. The former prisoner of war however said that his vote was consistent with his anti-torture stance.
"We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," he said. "I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned," McCain said.

WarriorMonk
02-15-2008, 01:20 AM
uhh...sh1t bush, if there's at least one good thing you can do to help patch up your legacy would be to actually NOT veto it...

dumb****.

Hollis
02-15-2008, 01:32 AM
Be nice if there was a link to the site.


Please provide one.

Thanks

H.

2Sheds_Jackson
02-15-2008, 01:04 PM
The likely Republican nominee, Arizona Senator John McCain, voted against the bill. The former prisoner of war however said that his vote was consistent with his anti-torture stance.
"We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," he said. "I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned," McCain said.


In the words of the GEICO caveman...ah...what? I can't tell if McCain was speaking before he had his AM coffee, or if this article is BS.

Hollis
02-15-2008, 01:07 PM
In the words of the GEICO caveman...ah...what? I can't tell if McCain was speaking before he had his AM coffee, or if this article is BS.


The guy is not providing a link, He can PM me with a link, I will reopen the thread.

Thanks for the link:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j-blPphYCd3gvGmCfCw3XarO1aSg

Firetxmi
02-15-2008, 04:58 PM
In the words of the GEICO caveman...ah...what? I can't tell if McCain was speaking before he had his AM coffee, or if this article is BS.

Hasn't McCain always been against Waterboarding?

2Sheds_Jackson
02-15-2008, 05:08 PM
Yes. But take a look at this again. It makes no sense to me.



The likely Republican nominee, Arizona Senator John McCain, voted against the bill. The former prisoner of war however said that his vote was consistent with his anti-torture stance.
"We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," he said. "I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned," McCain said.


McCain voted against the bill. If he wants to ban it, shouldn't he have voted for it?

Secondly - how could he believe it's "illegal" if he's only now voting on a bill to make it illegal? If it was illegal, we could never have used it at all.

Dr.Piloolkin
02-16-2008, 12:03 PM
A think McCain has spent a little too many years in the Hanoi Hilton. His subconscious is doing and saying things his conscious mind doesn't know about. He scares me more then any leader in the world.

Freedom-Fries
02-16-2008, 01:38 PM
dont trust McCain

a little water never did anyone no harm

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2617/bushming3wh5.jpg

Hail, Bush, Hail! Ruler of the Universe!

Firetxmi
02-16-2008, 05:25 PM
I reread the article and see what you are saying now 2sheds. That is strange.

Lambert58
02-16-2008, 11:25 PM
Interrogating likely terrorists with extreme physical pain is ok by me. Make them hurt = save my family. Good by me.

MJC9678
02-16-2008, 11:53 PM
I agree. I'll volunteer to help interrogate as well......I have a spare car battery.

MaDuce
02-17-2008, 12:08 AM
dont trust McCain

a little water never did anyone no harm

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2617/bushming3wh5.jpg

Hail, Bush, Hail! Ruler of the Universe!
How dare you mock the evil lord Xenu.

Invisigoth
02-17-2008, 12:08 AM
Yeah, catch-word is 'likely' here, but hey...

McCain is in tough spot right now since he has to go down on the republican conservatives in order to, at least somewhat, reach out to them prior to the elections. At the same time that makes him look like a complete tool cause its not in line with what he has been doing for the past years.

Can't wait to see that limbo continue, will be almost as good as Hillary starting to cry again once she realizes that she needs a 'soft touch' because she comes off as a power-hungry dykominator. Even funnier is that the more mud she and her machinery sling at Obama the worse its gonna get.

American politics is fun. p-)

Lambert58
02-17-2008, 12:16 AM
Yeah, catch-word is 'likely' here, but hey...

McCain is in tough spot right now since he has to go down on the republican conservatives in order to, at least somewhat, reach out to them prior to the elections. At the same time that makes him look like a complete tool cause its not in line with what he has been doing for the past years.

Can't wait to see that limbo continue, will be almost as good as Hillary starting to cry again once she realizes that she needs a 'soft touch' because she comes off as a power-hungry dykominator. Even funnier is that the more mud she and her machinery sling at Obama the worse its gonna get.

American politics is fun. p-)

Yeah. fun unless you're an American who's busted your ass your whole life, came from dirt poor parents, served in the military, got your BS, your MS, and have clawed your way to a nice life only to discover that the communist/socialist demonrats want to tax/steal everything you've earned and give it back to the deadbeats that dropped out of high school way back when you were busting your ass.

Yeah. Amerikan polotiks. Guess it's more like "welcome to the rest of the world... there is no American dream sucker"

Dr.Piloolkin
02-17-2008, 03:49 AM
I agree. I'll volunteer to help interrogate as well......I have a spare car battery.

Why do people think you need a crazy setup to get info out of people? Why waste so much time with electric shock? Shoot somebody's finger off, they will tell you any thing you want.

Ratamacue
02-17-2008, 03:50 AM
McCain's reasoning, according to what I heard him say in an interview the other day, is that while he considers waterboarding and similarly brutal methods to be torture, he believes that the bill is nonetheless too restrictive on other interrogation techniques.

MJC9678
02-17-2008, 04:57 PM
Why do people think you need a crazy setup to get info out of people? Why waste so much time with electric shock? Shoot somebody's finger off, they will tell you any thing you want.

Nonstop Celine Dion would work to. No one could handle that for days....

Limeyfellow
02-17-2008, 11:20 PM
I agree. I'll volunteer to help interrogate as well......I have a spare car battery.

Thats fine with me, as long as you are okay with the terrorists, or foreign militaries torturing US citizens and soldiers using the same methods. If we are going to approve the use, than the US can no longer be outraged when it happens to our side.

Hollis
02-17-2008, 11:27 PM
Thats fine with me, as long as you are okay with the terrorists, or foreign militaries torturing US citizens and soldiers using the same methods. If we are going to approve the use, than the US can no longer be outraged when it happens to our side.


Well let see, Maybe you can convince the tangos not to use torture. The NVA and VC did, the N. Korean did.

I think this US troops have been taking on the blunt of being tortured longer than you and I have been alive. I am not saying we should, but it would be nice if they didn't either.

BTW. waterboarding as bad as it is, is nothing compared to what the Tangos do, or did the Tangos Videos of what they do to people?