Discovery of a new solar system

[Mishka Zubov]

An international team of scientists led by astronomers based in Warsaw, Poland and working within OGLE project has announced a discovery of an extrasolar planetary system, which - after rescaling - resembles our own Solar System. An article on the discovery will appear in tomorrow's issue of Science magazine.http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5172/tel3zs3.jpg

1.3 m Warsaw's Telescope - Las Campanas Observatory, ChileOGLE project (with pointer to OGLE-2006-BLG-109 scientific discovery paper)[2] (http://ogle.astrouw.edu.pl/)


The system, designated OGLE-2006-BLG-109, is situated 4,500 light years away from Earth. It is composed of two massive planets which resemble Jupiter and Saturn, and which revolve around a star similar to our own Sun.[1]
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6033/20080215001001qr7.jpg

Initially this discovery was thought as one of 600 microlensing effects discovered by OGLE team in 2006 alone.

Gravitational microlensing happens when a mass-endowed celestial body (for example a planet or a black hole) transits close to the line-of-sight between a star and the Earth (observer), resulting in a noticeable brightening of the light from the star.[1] Yet there was something strange in the data this time - it did not fit a familiar pattern of a single planet:


Subsequent observations demonstrated that the light curve had not behaved typically, prompting the existence of a more complicated planetary system, as opposed to an individual planet.

The collaboration between OGLE and the Americal microFun, New Zealand MOA and the international PLANET/ROBONET teams resulted in a precise coverage of the event with observational points.

Both Dr Scott Gaudi from Ohio State University and Dr David Bennet from the University of Notre Dame (USA) played a key role in the interpretation of this unusual event. The models put forward by the scientists assume the existence of two planets. The first of the planets has a mass equal to 0.71 that of the Jupiter and revolves around the parent star in the distance equal to 2.3 Astronomical Units (AU), while its second sibling has a mass of 0.27 Jupiter mass and orbits the star in the distance of 4.6 AU. After rescaling, the planets correspond to Jupiter and Saturn respectively, while the star is half as massive as our Sun. It is also cooler than our nearest stellar object. [1]And what the press reports?

Korean Astronomers Help Spot New Planetary System!

Israeli astronomers help discover new solar system!

NZ astronomers help discover new solar system (+photos,video)!

According to a NZ article:


The Polish astronomers called for astronomers around the world to join them in monitoring these stars. A total of 69 scientists around the globe took part and Massey’s Paul Tristram was the first New Zealander to pick up on this event from the Mt John Observatory.[1]source: Polish astronomical webpage, http://www.astronomia.pl/english/index.php?w=1&id=113


[2]Discovery scientific paper: Discovery of a Jupiter/Saturn Analog with Gravitational Microlensing
Authors: B.S.Gaudi, D.P.Bennett, A.Udalski, A.Gould, G.W.Christie, D.Maoz, S.Dong, J.McCormick, M.K.Szymanski, P.J.Tristram, S.Nikolaev, B.Paczynski, M.Kubiak, G.Pietrzynski, I.Soszynski, O.Szewczyk, K.Ulaczyk, L.Wyrzykowski, D.L.DePoy, C.Han, S.Kaspi, C.-U.Lee, F.Mallia, T.Natusch, R.W.Pogge, B.-G.Park, F.Abe, I.A.Bond, C.S.Botzler, A.Fukui, J.B.Hearnshaw, Y.Itow, K.Kamiya, A.V.Korpela, P.M.Kilmartin, W.Lin, K.Masuda, Y.Matsubara, M.Motomura, Y.Muraki, S.Nakamura, T.Okumura, K.Ohnishi, N.J.Rattenbury, T.Sako, To.Saito, S.Sato, L.Skuljan, D.J.Sullivan, T.Sumi, W.L.Sweatman, P.C.M.Yock, M.D.Albrow, A.Allan, J.-P.Beaulieu, M.J.Burgdorf, K.H.Cook, C.Coutures, M.Dominik, S.Dieters, P.Fouque, J.Greenhill, K.Horne, I.Steele, Y.Tsapras (OGLE, MicroFUN, MOA, PLANET/RoboNET), B.Chaboyer, A.Crocker, S.Frank, et al (0 additional authors not shown)

source: eprint server, http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.1920

[Mu-Meson]

NZ, Israeli, Korean, and Polish. If only diplomats could cooperate like scientists.

[Outerheaven]

Can anyone say bizarre Earth?

[Lambert58]

If we could blast our history at said solar system.... they'd probably be to scared to respond.

I would.

[Tokamak]

If we could blast our history at said solar system.... they'd probably be to scared to respond.

I would.

I wouldn't, it would be a great opportunity to study undevelop worlds.

[Dr.Piloolkin]

Can anyone say bizarre Earth?

In OGLE-2006-BLG-109 the sun revolves around YOU!

[Lambert58]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambert58 http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3057173#post3057173)
If we could blast our history at said solar system.... they'd probably be to scared to respond.

I would.

I wouldn't, it would be a great opportunity to study undevelop worlds.

..... assuming you read what I wrote (big assumption): the point of my comment was that if they knew us they would avoid us. got it?

I'd offer this thread and your reply as Exhibit A.

Holy god.

[FelixA9]

If we could blast our history at said solar system.... they'd probably be to scared to respond.

I would.


We're already blasting our history at them. don't know how big of an antenna you'd need to detect TV at that range though.

[phoebus]

That must be massive news! On the meantime lets debate on more important issues like Iraq or Kossovo... :|

Us humans are a strange lot afterall.


NZ, Israeli, Korean, and Polish. If only diplomats could cooperate like scientists.

True that. I can spot an Englishman too, as well a Greek one. Good job to Poland which hosted that project.

[Tokamak]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambert58 http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3057173#post3057173)
If we could blast our history at said solar system.... they'd probably be to scared to respond.

I would.

I wouldn't, it would be a great opportunity to study undevelop worlds.

..... assuming you read what I wrote (big assumption): the point of my comment was that if they knew us they would avoid us. got it?

I'd offer this thread and your reply as Exhibit A.

Holy god.

Right smart boy (big assumption). I am not so sure that all of them would avoid us. Some might be interested in studing us as species, we currently do it with other "less" developed cultures.

[Mishka Zubov]

We're already blasting our history at them. don't know how big of an antenna you'd need to detect TV at that range though.

Well, we could use a network of radiotelescopes for that. :-) But unfortunately democracy in Poland is still in its infancy and it sometimes destroys the best efforts of any do-gooders. Lack of respect to the rules of law and unmoderated ambitions of some local rulers sometimes make this country look like Liberia under the former rules of Mr. Taylor, or other such privately owned African state. Read this - what a joke!



Road more important than a space research
Tuesday, February 19, 2008

The biggest Polish astronomic observatory in Piwnice near Toruń, with its unique great radiotelescope, may become practically useless soon because the road builders want to build a road nearby - alarms "Gazeta Wyborcza".

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2919/800pxtorun32mwintercg9.jpg

Several such European radiotelescopes connected together effectively create a gargantous telescope - several hundreds kilometers in diameterThe Astronomical Center of Nicolaus Copernicus University investigates universe using radio waves. Its centerpiece is the third biggest in Europe, 32-meter radiotelescope RT-4, which is a part of an international network of VLBI radiotelescopes, jointly observing the most distant objects of the universe.

Soon the Center may be forced to move out. According to plans, a major voivodship's road - joining a highway node with a national route no. 80 - will be built close by - only 1.2 meters from the observatory. This is a death warrant for the scientists: light beams from vehicles and short-wave transmitters of truck drivers will distort the observations so much that any research will be impossible.

This forces the observatory to move out into another more desolate place. The move will cost them 100-150 million PLN.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1900/800pxpiwniceaerialviewep4.jpg

According to "Gazeta Wyborcza" Toruń is abuzz with rumors that the road is a prize for a Japanese company Sharp, which has built a TV plant nearby. The new road will make it easier to access the plant.
source: http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,8171,wid,9671291,wiadomosc.html
translated by MZ

I should add that the Piwnice Observatory was established in 1948.

[Miles.]

When studying alien solar systems, we must conclude that whichever dominant lifeforms inhabit these distant planets, they are predators like us.



Its not smart to reveal ourselves to distant predators.


Keep cool.

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

interesting article...
I d love to see people making contact with unknown inteligent liveform
friendly but even with hostile, it could unite human race (or whipe it out for that matter :))

...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/1/Posters/fp0252~Take-Me-To-Your-Dealer-Posters.jpg

[Calanen]

I wouldn't, it would be a great opportunity to study undevelop worlds.

It always struck me as particularly stupid to include in the probe Voyager, a map showing the position of earth. Its like saying, dear bloodthirsty advanced alien race, here is where a particularly backward group of apes live in a rare resource rich and water filled planet. Please stop by and say hi. Btw, we are so stupid, that we believe anyone else in the universe we find will want to be our friends, so here is our address.

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

It always struck me as particularly stupid to include in the probe Voyager, a map showing the position of earth. Its like saying, dear bloodthirsty advanced alien race, here is where a particularly backward group of apes live in a rare resource rich and water filled planet. Please stop by and say hi. Btw, we are so stupid, that we believe anyone else in the universe we find will want to be our friends, so here is our address.

well logicaly if they re more developed than us, they should be friendly...if they re not like zerg or some fuking bugs :)

anyway theres some paradox whichs says that any race which could travel in space would just destroy itself before that...
and second paradox is that super inteligent races with high level of technology would rather stay in some sort of matrix or virtual reality than to explore universe...

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Personally I reckon we are protected by a inter galactic treaty in which space faring nations have agreed to only "observe" and not interfere.

As soon as we obtain inter stellar travel were gonna be ****ed over in a pre-emptive strike to prevent us doing to other planets what we did to the Americas, Jews, Australian aboriginals and so forth.

[Tokamak]

It always struck me as particularly stupid to include in the probe Voyager, a map showing the position of earth. Its like saying, dear bloodthirsty advanced alien race, here is where a particularly backward group of apes live in a rare resource rich and water filled planet. Please stop by and say hi. Btw, we are so stupid, that we believe anyone else in the universe we find will want to be our friends, so here is our address.

Don't worry I think at the moment the Voyager is still within the limits of our solar system. I wonder how probable is that somoene would ever find that probe?

[Miles.]

well logicaly if they re more developed than us, they should be friendly...if they re not like zerg or some fuking bugs :)

anyway theres some paradox whichs says that any race which could travel in space would just destroy itself before that...
and second paradox is that super inteligent races with high level of technology would rather stay in some sort of matrix or virtual reality than to explore universe...

I'm not so sure that technological advancements make a species peaceful.

This is according to Dr. Michio Kaku, Theoretical Physicist, Graduate Center, City College of New York:

The transition from a Type 0 civilization (ours) to a Type I civilization (planetary power) is the most dangerous.

We can find no evidence of Type I civilizations. There may not be any, for the transition is probably self-consuming (nuclear war, pandemics, etc.).

[shocker1]

*Wow you mean there are planets around other stars? Jeebus what a discovery. Amazing how our star is not the only star with planets.*


*=sarcasm indicator

[Miles.]

*Wow you mean there are planets around other stars? Jeebus what a discovery. Amazing how our star is not the only star with planets.*


*=sarcasm indicator

Well, the discovery is actually a system of planets.


Before, we were only able to observe the light curvature/gravitational wobble from a singular massive Jupiter-sized planet orbiting a star.



Unfortunately, these huge planets are all we can detect. Our puny technology cannot find smaller planets like our own.


I'm not sure we have ever "seen" a planet that orbits another star. The only thing we can "see" is that the star wobbles, because of the planets' gravity/orbit.

[shocker1]

Hey don't get me wrong I think it is interesting but not unexpected. I have many hours under my belt gazing through my reflector. My logic says one star on the rim of a galaxy in a cluster of millions of galaxies in a universe with millions of galaxy clusters mean we are not alone. Even my religious beliefs support this. I have seen UFOs too but that is another subject.:)

[Tokamak]

Well, the discovery is actually a system of planets.


Before, we were only able to observe the light curvature/gravitational wobble from a singular massive Jupiter-sized planet orbiting a star.



Unfortunately, these huge planets are all we can detect. Our puny technology cannot find smaller planets like our own.


I'm not sure we have ever "seen" a planet that orbits another star. The only thing we can "see" is that the star wobbles, because of the planets' gravity/orbit.

You are correct we only "see" them by indirect measurments. We need to find better ways to identify smaller planets to be able to find some like ours. Besides, every time they find a new planet more and more questions about how our solar system was formed are raised.

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

Well, the discovery is actually a system of planets.


Before, we were only able to observe the light curvature/gravitational wobble from a singular massive Jupiter-sized planet orbiting a star.



Unfortunately, these huge planets are all we can detect. Our puny technology cannot find smaller planets like our own.


I'm not sure we have ever "seen" a planet that orbits another star. The only thing we can "see" is that the star wobbles, because of the planets' gravity/orbit.


The system, designated OGLE-2006-BLG-109, is situated 4,500 light years away from Earth.

So there is still time paradox, we re loking into the past because of such long distances ....

[Mishka Zubov]

You are correct we only "see" them by indirect measurments. We need to find better ways to identify smaller planets to be able to find some like ours. Besides, every time they find a new planet more and more questions about how our solar system was formed are raised.


You are correct we only "see" them by indirect measurements.Just in case anyone missed that: the OGLE web page and the discovery articles (links provided in post no. 1) demonstrate those indirect techniques. The artist visualization of that planetary system in post no. 1 is just that - the visualization.

But still, the relation between what we measure and what we see are pretty close here. In other scientific fields, such as quantum mechanics, such pretty visualization pictures are nothing but models, mnemonic tools - having nothing in common with reality.


We need to find better ways to identify smaller planets to be able to find some like oursSimple - either improve the resolution 100000 times or find some other marvelous technique that is better than the gravitational microlensing :-)

I am optimistic here because I indirectly witnessed such dramatic improvements myself in another discipline. I was told that magnets of our first makeshift Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) spectrometer had been home made by shorting a streetcar traction bus to ground via blocks of metal - illegally of course, at night [City Transit authorities pretended not to know about it]. Four years later we finally could afford a commercial Japanese spectrometer - two times as small but with the resolution 10000 time as good. Our first measurement objects (samples) could not be bigger than a cigarette (uniformity of magnetic field could only be achieved in such small dimensions), nowadays the Magnetic Imaging spectrometers (based on NMR) accept bodies of humans as the samples.

That's the improvement in 20-something years!

[Ratamacue]

You are correct we only "see" them by indirect measurments. We need to find better ways to identify smaller planets to be able to find some like ours. Besides, every time they find a new planet more and more questions about how our solar system was formed are raised.This what projects like Terrestrial Planet Finder, Darwin, and New Worlds are for. It's basically just a problem of technological advancement. Our primary means of seeking extrasolar planets is looking at their gravitational effect on their parent star (manifested in the doppler effect when observed), and inferring their existence, orbit, and mass based on that. Finding the doppler effect of a gas giant is reasonably easy, but seeing the effect of a planet as tiny as Earth would require extremely sensitive equipment that's only now becoming feasible.

That said, expect the coming decades to be a very exciting time when it comes to the search for extrasolar planets.