Iraqis say they want louder say in nation's government

[J-10]

BAGHDAD — Frustrated Iraqi leaders say they're being cut out of negotiations over who will head the country after the June 30 transfer of power and warn that the process will lack legitimacy unless it is led by Iraqis.

U.N. special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi is expected to make a decision regarding the makeup of a new government within a week — one month before it is scheduled to take over from the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council (IGC).

"The IGC is like a snowman that's melting," said Defense Minister Ali Allawi, who is not sure whether he will have a position in the post-turnover government and Cabinet.

Council member Mahmoud Othman said no names have been formally presented to IGC members as candidates for the interim government, which will rule until elections are held in January 2005.

"We have heard names, but no one has set down the names. Until now, Mr. Brahimi and the Americans have not agreed on the names," Mr. Othman said. He said the main negotiations were taking place between the United States and the United Nations, with consultations with Iraqi leaders taking place on the side. ...........

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040523-115506-1214r.htm

[Dennis G]

give it to them, They should have a say in the formation of the new goverment.

[American Patriot]

They will get a chance to vote in Jan 2005.


The IGC was never widely accepted in Iraq because its members were appointed by the Americans and because many of them lived abroad during much of Saddam's dictatorship.

Tough ****.

[GrimmyRX]

They will get a chance to vote in Jan 2005.


The IGC was never widely accepted in Iraq because its members were appointed by the Americans and because many of them lived abroad during much of Saddam's dictatorship.

Tough ****.

Tough **** for who? If Iraqi's don't feel like they get any say in the government, what does the government become?

Absolutly Fecking useless.

Which means?

More bloodshed. :bash:

So yeah, more say in the government would be a good thing.

[Argyll]

Democracy at it's best!

[Tane Angle]

Tough ****.
I thought it was Operation Iraqi Freedom? I thought we were bringing democracy to the Middle East? If they're pissed off because they don't have that democracy, it's tough for us.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Jeezus h friggin....

How long were these folks content to show up at "Iraqi Parliament" meetings and pretend to vote on things? How many decades did they have a sham of a government? How many hundreds of votes were faked?

In the short time we have been there, we've had to do all the work for them, shed our blood, build them a framework government, hand them the reins of power, and now, they're bitching that it's not happening fast enough! Amazing.

Direct elections are on the way. In the meantime, maybe they should spend less time looking out for their own personal interests, and more time trying to ensure the transition is seen to be fair and equitable. It's a transitional government by design. They are not ready to run the show yet (they never have). This is nothing more than politicians worrying about their job security.

[Pooga]

Indeed, Jackson.

Lazy arses.

[Tane Angle]

Actually, they're bitter, lied to people. We said we'd support them if they rebeled, so they did, and the support never came. A huge number of anti-Hussein people-people willing and ready to die to overthrow Hussein-were slaughtered when Bush Sr. called off all US support of the revolt. Forgive them if they're slightly distrusting of the US and American promises. Forgive them if they lost some very important people during that rebellion and felt it better to wait until Hussein died before launching a revolt.

I probably seem a bit frustrated. And well, I am. It is very difficult to convince the Shiites that we are not there to take over when our nation has a history of lying to them. We have next to zero credibility, and things like prisoner abuses and getting into firefights around their holiest shrines isn't helping.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[786mine]

Don't see what is wrong if the Iraqis want more say in THEIR government. I think we should just give it to them and tell them teh rules of the game and let them play democracy.

[Brozozo]

Don't see what is wrong if the Iraqis want more say in THEIR government. I think we should just give it to them and tell them teh rules of the game and let them play democracy.

I agree, but I also bet they'll find a way to f*ck it up royally.

[NeedsABetterName]

You know what,lets pull out ALL,and I mean every last bit of,of our troops,help,aid ect.,and see what they can do!I bet they can build a democracy just like...Oh,wait a miniute,they can't do anything by themselves.They want a government,build it themselves instead of having us build it,and then crying because they don't get their stupid government fast enough.You know,I would love to see this happen.*walks off to the White House*...

[GrimmyRX]

Jeezus h friggin....

How long were these folks content to show up at "Iraqi Parliament" meetings and pretend to vote on things? How many decades did they have a sham of a government? How many hundreds of votes were faked?

In the short time we have been there, we've had to do all the work for them, shed our blood, build them a framework government, hand them the reins of power, and now, they're bitching that it's not happening fast enough! Amazing.

Dude, America went over there without the Direct invitation of the Iraqi people (though, true enough, it's not like they COULD have invited you guys even if they wanted to, lol). America went over there cause that's what you wanted to do. So should you really be bitching about how the population of a country doesn't really care how much American blood gets spilled for them?

Aight, you saved them from Saddam. True enough, and no doubt they were greatful. But now, in their eyes, the faces of Americans are starting to grow a little black mustash.

Why shouldn't they bitch about not having their own government fast enough? It's THEIR government. They will have to live with it.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It just bugs the crap out of me that these people, in a nation swimming in weapons, couldn't find the wherewithal to oust Saddam on their own. They were instead content to sit & pretend to have a government. I didn't hear any complaining from them, or from the press then.

Only now, when we have handed them the freedom to do so, they complain about their government. They are now under no threat. If they truly feared us like they feared Saddam, they'd have kept their opinions to themselves, shut up, and played along. The fact that they're willing to speak up is proof that they don't equate us with Saddam.

It's like as if we in America sat quietly under British rule, then a 3rd party came in and gave us independence, and only then do we start to complain about our government and make grand patriotic statements. Feh!

Hey, I don't begrudge them the right to bitch (it's what democracy is all about!). And I can see why they wouldn't love us, and would be mistrustful. But it's not like we've been there 5 years.

We've still got troops in Europe from a war 60 years ago. And in Korea from 50 years ago. How long did we fully occupy Japan and Germany. (anybody know)? Here, it's been what, a year?

I just think it's a bit self serving with all that we've done to be complaining that we're not doing things for them fast enough. How long did it take them to defeat Saddam and form a new government...oh wait, they never did.

It's like what I've heard from a lot of folks returning from Iraq - the locals thought we'd show up with trucks full of goodies for everybody. As if the US had some magical power, unlimited money and resources. While they considered themselves powerless, they thought we were all powerful. It's time for them to get some realistic expectations.

[Pooga]

Tane, I agree with your first paragraph, about the US abandoning them and leaving them to the wolves (I like wolves, though).

And then you hear people in the US wanting to pull out now. Unbelievable. :cantbeli:

Grimmy: Iraqis need vigilantes. Get off their butts, whip out the ol' RPG, and kick some Sadr militia butt.

Hats off to the ICDC.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Hey y'know maybe I'm off base on the Iraqi efforts to off Saddam. Anybody have info on any home grown efforts to kill Saddam? I know he had a bunch of body doubles...but I don't know if that was due to paranoia or the fact that he needed 'em.

[Umm-Qasr]

It's a very complex situation now in Iraq. Don't forget that these people have been living 30 years under the dictatorial regime of saddam. Two complete generations have been indoctrinated with the baath-crap of saddam. So a lot of the people there just can't think now as rational as you would expect that from them when they were liberated from saddam. And there are also now in Iraq many foreign terrorist who hate the iraqi people and only want chaos. Believe me, it's more complex than most people think it is. Maybe we need to wait another 30 years till the mentality will change among the majority!

[Pooga]

Yeah, but people back home won't want to wait 30 years for the Iraqi's mentality to change. That's teh problelme!!!!!11

[Umm-Qasr]

Yeah, but people back home won't want to wait 30 years for the Iraqi's mentality to change. That's teh problelme!!!!!11
They don't have to. The Iraqis have to solve their own problems cuz when they fail they can't blaim anyone else like 'they' maybe do now ...