Concern over Iraq security firms (PMCs)

[Yard Ape]

Concern over Iraq security firms
Tuesday, 25 May, 2004, 07:44 GMT 08:44 UK
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3744571.stm)
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40134000/jpg/_40134943_bremerguard_ap203b.jpgt.jpg
Private guards watch over the US's man in Iraq Paul Bremer (far left)

There is growing concern about the role of private security firms operating in Iraq, a BBC report has revealed.

Some security personnel claim their lives are being put at risk as they are asked to do the work of regular forces.

The investigation, by Radio 4's File on 4 programme, came as two Britons - one a bodyguard - were killed in a Baghdad rocket attack on Monday.

International Human Rights judge Richard Goldstone called for the work of firms in Iraq to be regulated.


Mr Goldstone said no government should use private contractors to do the work of regular armies because of their lack of control and accountability.

He said the situation in Iraq was "crying out" for international regulation.

Inexperience

More and more security staff are being killed in Iraq, but the exact number of private security firms working there is not known.

However estimates say that they take 10% of the country's security budget.

British companies working in Iraq employ mainly former soldiers who reportedly make as much as £500 a day.

Speaking to File on 4, some security staff claimed they had been given inadequate equipment and had to work alongside inexperienced and poorly trained recruits.

Vetting procedures were also questioned after the discovery that one British company hired a former soldier with convictions for helping loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland.

Another company with a major contract in Iraq was found to have employed two South Africans linked to atrocities carried out under the apartheid regime.

Rocket attack

The two Britons killed in Iraq on Monday died in a rocket attack only yards from the coalition headquarters in Baghdad.

A third Briton was injured in the attack.

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said the deaths were shocking and showed the risks civilians had to take in Iraq.

Twelve British civilians had now died in Iraq since July last year, the Foreign Office said.

In a keynote speech on Monday, US President George Bush attempted to rally support for the coalition, after the UK and US tabled a UN resolution on the 30 June handover of power.

Mr Bush warned violence in Iraq could get worse, but he vowed to defeat the forces fighting the US-led coalition.

Prime Minister Tony Blair is expected to be closely questioned about the coalition's plans at his monthly televised press conference on Tuesday.

[OB Kenobi]

Some security personnel claim their lives are being put at risk as they are asked to do the work of regular forces.

I guess they expected a free ride, leeching all that nice taxpayer money. $2,000 a day for driving around in an armored SUV drinking Gatorade and posing in front of the civilians with their top-of-the-line equipment regular troops can't afford.

Do some work, you mercenary scum!

[Argyll]

Some security personnel claim their lives are being put at risk as they are asked to do the work of regular forces.

I guess they expected a free ride, leeching all that nice taxpayer money. $2,000 a day for driving around in an armored SUV drinking Gatorade and posing in front of the civilians with their top-of-the-line equipment regular troops can't afford.

Do some work, you mercenary scum!

Here speaks the expert!!
Define mercenary
It's not just your tax dollars that pay ,it's British money as well,infact there are quite a few who have contributed to itoh and oddly enough it's American's who are being protected......oh and American Run companies,but then you would know this ,that top of the line eqipment?
such as?You mean the stuff you have to buy yourself?
No fancy **** gets issued to you,and the regular troops can afford it,but some are not allowed to wear it,oddly enough it's what we call uniformity,it makes all soldiers look the same .
Gatorade is disgusting as well ;)

People like you,who are all talk ,and lack the moral fibre to put their money where there mouth is,just piss me off.

[fdt]

A propos: I gotta few questions concerning the PMC employees status in Iraq:

1. What regulations do they have to obey?

- rules of engagement,
- weaponry allowed,

2. What penal/criminal regulations do apply to their activities?

3. What criminal/penal/investigation procedures do apply?

4. What are the allowed (according to what regulations) scope of PMC's activities?
- bodyguarding
- industrial facilities protection, guarding and patrolling
- investigations (what means are allowed which are not),
- detaining criminal supects (other than terrorists - f.ex. thieves, frauds) what rules apply here?

5. Who controls the legal context of their activities?
- local police
- Relevant US and/or allied Military commands
- Companies employing them (according to what regulations and rules)

6. Who performs the law (if any) enforcement when PMC's are the subject of procedures?

7. What are the rules of the individual damage (property and life) liability (if any)
- is contractor liable, or
- company employing him

8. What are the standard life insurance regulations concerning contractors?

9. Do the contractors need the individual certification? Is it controlled? By whom? Who is eventually finacially liable for their non professional actions? Company or them personally?

10. Do contractors get the appropriate training concerning all the rules I asked above?

Those above are only the first thoughts I had at hand... Argyll, anyone could put some light on those issues?

[Marmot1]

Gatorade is OK. Especially blue one...

[dacanadianbomb]

I am not authorative on this, but one thing I am certain of kenobi,

PMc's cannot and will not do the stuff the military does. You obviously have the wrong picture of what the military does there.
AS stated in another thread that deals with this, the military does not have to provide security to any company or its assets. They are fully aware of the danger and therefor cannot be helped if they encounter problems. The companies receiving the contracts then sub-contract PMCs to protect their assets and manpower from being put six feet under, and to preserve the profit margins on the contracts. The military does not guarantee the security of embedded reporters either, if they " buy the farm " then its their own fault and they are there at their own risk.

Just so we are clear , PMCs are not equal to mercenaries.Mercenaries are active fighters in wars, PMCs in Iraq are primarily protective ie defensive measures. Executive outcomes in part started the open private military company thing, but they ****ed it up as well, due to the nature and types of their missions. This is where you get your mercenary picture from. They went and regained assets and stopped rebellions actively taking part in offensive actions and associating themselves then with the respective payer.

If you are pissed off about taymoney being used for this then use your right to vote, make a more informed decision than the uniinformed opinion you posted before.Because if the Iraq war would have not happened , then the PMCs would not be seeing this properity.

Dont get me wrong argyll, you make your coin the way you make it. isnt any of my business.

whats the saying " Dont hate the player,hate the game " ?

[Secret Squirrel]

@ OB Kenobi...i'm sure in your infinite wisdom you know that Mercenaries are illegal in warzones as outlined by the GCs and international law. The PMCs that do security arent hired guns used wage a battle; they do what their name suggests, ie. SECURITY.

@fdt... as for your questions....

1) They should obey the GCs and their own ROEs (ie. i dont think they're suppose to take part in a fire fight but if someone shoots at them while they're on their security detail then they have a right to defend themselves with deadly force). No idea about their weapons that they are allowed.

2) The penal regulations I believe it they are allowed to use deadly force if fired upon. You have to realize they arent looking for a fight. I'm sure most of them would prefer that nothing happens on their watch, but if someone threatens their employer or whatever they're guarding, then they have a right to defend themselves. They arent above the law.

3) not sure what you meant by this question?

4) They do whatever job they're contracted to do. They arent out to arrest people or anything like that. From what i understand they have one focus; to do what they're contracted to do...whether thats guarding something, or driving a truck or whatever. Contractors can range from cooks, weapons maintence (which has been outsourced by the U.S for a long time), security, truck drivers, interrogators..etc.

5) As for the legal context, I believe its the U.S.

6) Again, I believe its the U.S but i'm not sure. I think it might be the government who contracted these people.

7) I dont know. I would assume its the contractor because they arent employed, they're contracted.

8) no idea, you'll have to ask someone whos done this work.

9) They would be liable for their actions but the company, at least in one respect, would be liable too.(ie. if a government has a lot of problems with a particular company then they wouldnt give them anymore contracts).

10) I would assume they know how to handle themselves as most (if not all?) were former military personnel.

[Argyll]

@ OB Kenobi...i'm sure in your infinite wisdom you know that Mercenaries are illegal in warzones as outlined by the GCs and international law. The PMCs that do security arent hired guns used wage a battle; they do what their name suggests, ie. SECURITY.

@fdt... as for your questions....

1) They should obey the GCs and their own ROEs (ie. i dont think they're suppose to take part in a fire fight but if someone shoots at them while they're on their security detail then they have a right to defend themselves with deadly force). No idea about their weapons that they are allowed.

This is correct,strict ROE's.violate them you're out!Weaponry,no larger than 7.62mm or assault rifles,I'm sure it has this stipulated somewhere,you also have to have a permit to carry in Iraq,and there are restrictions with these too

2) The penal regulations I believe it they are allowed to use deadly force if fired upon. You have to realize they arent looking for a fight. I'm sure most of them would prefer that nothing happens on their watch, but if someone threatens their employer or whatever they're guarding, then they have a right to defend themselves. They arent above the law.

Correct,all incidents have to be reported to the CPA,such as vehicle accidents,coming under fire/returning fire,you may only engage with deadly force under the ROE's,there are specific ROE's for Security Contractors in Iraq,as well as those for military personnel.
Last thing clients need is for some idiot to act like Rambo,and endanger lives,it's a big No No,and is likely to lose the company the security contract

3) not sure what you meant by this question?

Iraqi Police have the jurasdiction to investigate such things as RTA's etc,I'll ask if this pertains to other civil convictions such as Robbery,Murder etc

4) They do whatever job they're contracted to do. They arent out to arrest people or anything like that. From what i understand they have one focus; to do what they're contracted to do...whether thats guarding something, or driving a truck or whatever. Contractors can range from cooks, weapons maintence (which has been outsourced by the U.S for a long time), security, truck drivers, interrogators..etc.

Correct,but any citizen no matter where they are from can perform a "citizens arrest" much the same as you can do this in UK/USA,PMC's do not go around on Footpatrols,otherwise they'd not be security contractors,they are not performing open hostile actions,where they intitiate the contact.

5) As for the legal context, I believe its the U.S.

US Civil laws as you are employed by a US firm(In my case)

6) Again, I believe its the U.S but i'm not sure. I think it might be the government who contracted these people.

I'll check on this,but who governs the Military?

7) I dont know. I would assume its the contractor because they arent employed, they're contracted.

I'll also ask this one,property damage?in which way?

8) no idea, you'll have to ask someone whos done this work.

Provided for by your Company,same regulations as any other assurance policy,medical cover and medical repatriation is also included in most cases

9) They would be liable for their actions but the company, at least in one respect, would be liable too.(ie. if a government has a lot of problems with a particular company then they wouldnt give them anymore contracts).

Interesting ,I've heard stories of individuals having wages docked through constant vehicle miss use,all individuals are supposed to be vetted,and eventually issued with the relevant passes,Passes controlled by the CPA/DoD

10) I would assume they know how to handle themselves as most (if not all?) were former military personnel.

Yes we do,each person is required to read and sign that companies SOP's,in the SOP's it's clearly stated that training must be ongoing,ie ,not shown once,but regular training days,this we do most days when not on tasks,Range days,Dry training,Vehicle drills,1st aid etc,this is all part of the conditions set by the employing company

[ibstolidude]

Some security personnel claim their lives are being put at risk as they are asked to do the work of regular forces.

I guess they expected a free ride, leeching all that nice taxpayer money. $2,000 a day for driving around in an armored SUV drinking Gatorade and posing in front of the civilians with their top-of-the-line equipment regular troops can't afford.

Do some work, you mercenary scum!
wow, how ignorant are you.

[front]

Do some work, you mercenary scum!

He's being sarcastic.

cheers

front

[Argyll]

Do some work, you mercenary scum!

He's being sarcastic.

cheers

front

Oh really.........................what makes you think he was not sincere in his posting,none of the rest of it hinted of Sarcasm ;)

[fdt]

a) Does CPA issue some written ordnances, law bills or decrees?
b) Are they availabe in print and distributed amongst the PMCs and ordinary citizens?
c) Do PMCs have a training concerning those regulations?

What about PMC Companies that do perform the interrogations (as ordered by US Army or other services)... What rules do apply in this scope? Are those the same Companies (different offices within the Company?) or the specialized ones?

[Argyll]

a) Does CPA issue some written ordnances, law bills or decrees?

No idea........they issue the ROE's
b) Are they availabe in print and distributed amongst the PMCs and ordinary citizens?
Only amongst contractors,just like the Government issued ones they are classified
c) Do PMCs have a training concerning those regulations?
Concerning?In what way,our company do as they're told to do in relation to the CPA,if that' what you mean

What about PMC Companies that do perform the interrogations (as ordered by US Army or other services)... What rules do apply in this scope? Are those the same Companies (different offices within the Company?) or the specialized ones?

Specialised I would guess,I mean what does the regular ex Infantryman know about interrogation?...........sod all mate

[Secret Squirrel]

What about PMC Companies that do perform the interrogations (as ordered by US Army or other services)... What rules do apply in this scope? Are those the same Companies (different offices within the Company?) or the specialized ones?

Different company provided the intelligence contractors. Generally (if i recall correctly) the people who were doing the interrogations were former CIA agents. CACI, a Virginia-based private contractor that supplies civilian employees to the U.S. Army for interrogation and intelligence, supplied the people involved in the recent scandle.

[Uncle Sam]

I guess they expected a free ride, leeching all that nice taxpayer money. $2,000 a day for driving around in an armored SUV drinking Gatorade and posing in front of the civilians with their top-of-the-line equipment regular troops can't afford.

Do some work, you mercenary scum!

The more I read your posts, the more I realize what a true moron you are. Why don't you do us all a favor and go away.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I am listening to the program on PMC's on BBC Radio 4 at the moment its not too bad really.

[MEGR]

I like the PMCs. I don't give a rat's arse that they get paid to do what they do. It takes courage to do what they do.. I mean, there certainly are soldiers that are in the military, and in Iraq right now, that were in it (it being the military) for the money. Maybe they are so called merc scum too.