American Airlines kills a passanger.

[seraosha]

I read this and I was blown away at the level of negligence. I'll bet it has something to do with the destination when it comes to the faulty equipment.
And I'm not talking about Brooklyn.
I hope they sue AA into bankruptcy.

American Airlines Passenger Dies After Being Treated With Empty Oxygen Tank



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332189,00.html

[Gman3ID]

Terrible, It will be interesting what AA's official statement will be. I hope they accept responsibility and change their ways.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Terrible, It will be interesting what AA's official statement will be. I hope they accept responsibility and change their ways.

They'll most likely acknowledge responsibility regarding the faulty equipment - but we'll have to wait until an autopsy to determine whether "American Airlines kills a passenger."

If neither a functioning defibrillator or an oxygen tank could have saved her - then American Airlines didn't exactly "kill" her with their negligence did they?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I hope they sue AA into bankruptcy.



So thousands of people have to lose their livelihoods because of one death that may or may not have been preventable?

Isn't victim culture wonderful :roll:

[Rapier55]

I hope they sue AA into bankruptcy.


Typical, in this lawsuit happy country. Don't you think that's kind of a premature judgment? Oxygen is a drug, and when outside of the hospital setting it must be administered by a trained professional under appropriate conditions and given in the right dosage. Considering the stewardess and flight crew delayed in administering O2 indicates maybe one, if not all were unqualified or not trained in administering O2 Rx. It's not rocket science but they are equally liable if O2 is administered incorrectly. Not enough, it doesn't help, and too much O2 can actually depress respiratory drive. Do we know if anyone on that flight crew was qualified or trained? I would hope so considering they actually carry the equipment on the plane, but this does not seem to be the case. In most cases O2 treats symptoms and not the underlying causes of shortness of breath. That's not to say O2 treatment wouldn't have saved her life but it's very presumptuous to assume that lack of therapy led to "AA killing a passenger." Unless her death was from respiratory failure induced/hypoxia, Oxygen would have only bought her time. Her medical history will provide some invaluable insight into how much more time.

I believe at minimum an EMT must be qualified to administer oxygen in a public environment. In this case there were two doctors and two nurses who could have assessed and treated the woman appropriately. With that said, AA's liability for negligence depends on whether it is the law to carry functioning O2 and defibs on aircraft, or is it a courtesy. If it's the law this would imply that AA would be legally required to be certified/trained in administering O2 and defibs. This does not seem to be the case, which would make it a courtesy/safety measure. Their liability might then depend on whether AA had a stated and known policy of carrying and administering O2 and Defib's on aircraft AND the patient knew and relied on that information prior to her flying, knowing full well of her own medical condition. Also, considering AA is not in the "life saving" business I wonder if Good Samaritan Laws apply, given they only carry the equipment to help. There's a lot more to AA's being held liable/responsible but that's the gist. I know defibs on planes are quite common but not required, but I hardly ever hear of O2 treatment on planes simply because of the fire factor. However, with such limited information I don't see how one could come to the conclusion that AA killed any one. In the end AA is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I've never read the back of my airline ticket or release forms but it might provide some clue as to AA's policy regarding in flight medical treatment. That would be a start before crying bloody murder.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Reminds me of the General Slocum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Slocum)disaster in 1904 - where the emergency equipment was found to be non-functional (substandard cork and weighted with iron bars). You'd think we'd learn -

[seraosha]

So you think that the emergency equipment on the flights doesn't need to be in working order? Something simple like oxygen?

Right.

Bet that equipment is inspected and in working order on AA's domestic flights.
Sue them into the ground.

[rlslow]

American Airlines provides onboard therapeutic oxygen, subject to availability. This service is not available on American Eagle flights. The Reservations Special Assistance Coordinators arrange for this service upon 48 hours advance notice. A doctor's prescription is required advising of the liters per minute flow rate.

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/customerService/customerCommitment/customerServicePlan.jsp#Accommodation%20of%20Customers%20with%20Special%20Needs

This makes it look like oxygen is just a courtesy. Obviously, it could be more complicated than that, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Mastermind]

That's IT! When my O2 is running low, I'm never flocking myself away in a sealed aluminum tube with lots of other folks for hours at a time....the nerve of those Airlines to deny their passengers something as basic as oxygen....every living thing is entitled to oxygen...that's an inalienable right, I think...I'm sure I read that somewhere before...yes...it is truly at least a right.

Say...just occurred to me...one of the basic rules of business is..."Don't kill the customers if that exercise is at all avoidable."

I think that's rule eight...right after rule seven, "Serve coffee to the customers before serving it to the employees."

And before rule nine, "Make a profit no matter what...even if you have to invent a new kind of arithmetic."

[Ordie]

If it does go to court, the parties will probably end up settling the case. As part of the settlement, the airline may agree to include checking the on-board life support equipment as part of the preflight and preventative maintenance check.

Last time I checked, airlines profit margins are minimal.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I was under the impression that this stuff was required safety equipment. If that's not the case, this could be a whole different ballgame. If this stuff is provided as a courtesy, and not as part of standard i.e. required safety equipment - all they can really do is sue them under what - some good Samaritan laws? Would those even apply? And how many fully qualified doctors were on that flight, and did not come forward?

I also think we all know that even if the oxygen did work, and God forbid the flight attendants did something wrong, and the lady died anyway - they'd be sued into the ground for that too.

[Hollis]

I also think we all know that even if the oxygen did work, and God forbid the flight attendants did something wrong, and the lady died anyway - they'd be sued into the ground for that too.

US medical response teams are under a Dr's orders. They have to have a written SOP. To administer any drug, it has to be Oked by a Doc. If a person has a prior medical condition, they need to insure they are GTG not the carrier. I don't know what FAA requires on a flight. Nice to see the speculation going on and that the family has a lawyer to figure things out. Even cause of death is not mentioned.

I am not even sure if Airline personal are required to have a first responder card (no not a first aid card).

If there is a follow up article maybe it can explain some of the missing information.

[TallGuy]

Kind of strange that this could happen. Portable oxygen bottles are supposed to be changed if the pressure goes below 1500 PSI(3/4 full).

[Hollis]

Kind of strange that this could happen. Portable oxygen bottles are supposed to be changed if the pressure goes below 1500 PSI(3/4 full).

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ad17ac650d9b89748625710700523941/$FILE/AC121-33B.pdf

Maybe our medical pros can read this. I did not see a defib or O2, I can be wrong. Also one article said out side of a basic First Aid kit, there was no requirments till about 9 years ago.


The newer portable emergency Defibs are rather new and still not out there.

[TallGuy]

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ad17ac650d9b89748625710700523941/$FILE/AC121-33B.pdf

Maybe our medical pros can read this. I did not see a defib or O2, I can be wrong. Also one article said out side of a basic First Aid kit, there was no requirments till about 9 years ago.


The newer portable emergency Defibs are rather new and still not out there.

Well, the plane is grounded if it doesn't have a Medical Doctor's Kit. That has morphine and all the basic stuff a doctor would need. The plane also has a First Aid Kit and many have a defibrillator.

[Hollis]

Well, the plane is grounded if it doesn't have a Medical Doctor's Kit, which has morphine etc. The plane also has a First Aid Kit and many have a defib kit.


Thanks, I am total clueless on the requirements. Last med class I went to, they were talking about a new defib that was coming out, About $5000 range? That PDF site I posted has a list. Interesting too, is there where two Docs on board. Almost typical media story, Very little actual information.

I use to have a EMT 1 cert, Again I am clueless on FAA requirements, Thanks again.

H.

That PDF is from 1/12/06. I still didn't see a defib or 02, Do you have a site?

edited OK, I saw where:

"On April 12, 2001 (66 FR 19028), the FAA amended the aircraft
operating rules of 14 CFR part 121 to require air carriers to carry
automated external defibrillators (AEDs) on their aircraft as of April
12, 2004."

[Andrew Chalmers]

So you think that the emergency equipment on the flights doesn't need to be in working order? Something simple like oxygen?

Right.

Bet that equipment is inspected and in working order on AA's domestic flights.
Sue them into the ground.

What I think the airlines should have is irreverent.

There is no fault on the part of AA if the decedent would have died if the equipment functioned properly anyway. And since we're speculating here - suppose she had an acute allergic reaction and her trachea closed up. Without someone to intubate her, the decedent died.

No amount of oxygen or cardiac stimulation will fix that. The death - like most deaths, is unfortunate, but there's a logical leap to blame AA for the death.

Unless you've identified the cause of death & can attribute the lack of pure oxygen & AED to having contributed to the death, then there's no liability.

Key word - causality.

[Power_serj]

Just some Haitain guy trying to take advantage of his family member's death and the US broken tort system.

[California Joe]

Maybe she freaked out because there was a gremlin on the wing.

Maybe all stewardesses should be board certified in cardio pulmonary medicine when they aren't busy flashing their **** for YouTube videos.

You pay for an airline to fly you from point A to B. Not to perform surgery on your dying ass. Maybe she should have cut down on the Lucky Strikes for 30 years before she got on the plane.

[uglybaby]

Just caught this story on the TV news. While I feel for the husband who is grieving and understandably upset, it seems absurd to blame the airline for the death of a woman with a documented history of heart problems for her death unless they physically smothered or suffocated her with the alleged faulty oxygen tank. A trained physician on board volunteered to assist the crew with the defribilator. If she was found dead in bed in her apartment should the husband be allowed to sue the building management because she died? Come on people really....Like the woman at McDonalds who won big money for dropping hot coffee on herself....

[Hollis]

Seems the first report is based on statements from the family.


More:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23327116/?GT1=10856

[deagle]

i can't beleive how they claimed she only died of natural causes.....yea, due to their NEGLIENCE of having inept crew (attendant refused to administer o2,not all attendants bad of course), and defunct equip (when were they last inspected/updated to standards ?)

[Calanen]

Terrible, It will be interesting what AA's official statement will be. I hope they accept responsibility and change their ways.

No can do. Unless they self-insure, which is unlikely.

[USMC0331]

I just wanted to chime in, I am certified as an EMT-B, and I am pretty sure not just anyone can hand out oxygen. As far as I know, Oxygen is considered a drug, and must only be administered under a doctors orders. I wasn't aware that the flight attendants are certified to provide the oxygen, or that they were working under any sort of medical direction. It would make sense that they would try to administer oxygen from empty bottles if they weren't trained how to do so.

[onefast93z28]

I love how some people are claiming that because the aircraft came from Hati, it was less pre-flighted than if it was domestic flight. What exactly is the cause of that accusation? The aircraft still needs to conform with FAR part 121 regs regardless of it's point of origin.

Anyway, I used to work for a low-cost carrier and they trained their flight attendants basic medical skills, including the use of the O2 and the defibrillator. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give her oxygen at first because people complain about EVERYTHING during flights. I have seen it more than once where a pax freaked out and wanted oxygen and meds. The first flight attendant probably went to get the lead or inform the captain.

Anyway, I'll wait for the cause of death and other reports before I make any judgments.

[Zoomie]

i can't beleive how they claimed she only died of natural causes.....yea, due to their NEGLIENCE of having inept crew (attendant refused to administer o2,not all attendants bad of course), and defunct equip (when were they last inspected/updated to standards ?)
Ah yes, because you were right there on that flight with them. Isn't armchair quarterbacking great? :roll:

[Firetxmi]

I just wanted to chime in, I am certified as an EMT-B, and I am pretty sure not just anyone can hand out oxygen. As far as I know, Oxygen is considered a drug, and must only be administered under a doctors orders. I wasn't aware that the flight attendants are certified to provide the oxygen, or that they were working under any sort of medical direction. It would make sense that they would try to administer oxygen from empty bottles if they weren't trained how to do so.

Oxygen is a drug. You can't just go around giving people oxygen in whatever manner you please. There is a method to the madness.

It is my impression, from reading the documents that Hollis posted, that the equipment is to be used if perchance a physician is present. I also came to this conclusion because there is no way in hell a flight attendant should otherwise have access to or, God forbid, be administering Atropine, Epinephrine, Lidocaine, etc. One wrong move with those and you WILL have a lawsuit on your hands.

Love how everyone has jumped to conclusions though. I really like how Seraosha wants to "sue AA into bankruptcy." Real intelligent. :roll:

I would like to point out that if this were something having to do with a service member everyone would be saying "DON'T RUSH TO JUDGMENT!" and "Let them have their day in court!" Where is that sentiment now? I only see small bits of it. Just some food for thought.

[budgie]

Approximately one person a month dies on an Emirates flight. There is also approximately one case of passenger restraint (flexi-cuffs) per month.

Analysis anyone?

[NimDod]

off topic: an airlines joke

A guy is sitting in the bar in departures at a busy airport. A beautiful woman walks in and sits down at the table next to him.

He decides because she's that pretty, she's probably an off-duty flight attendant. So he decides to have a go at picking her up by identifying the airline she flies for, thereby impressing her greatly.

He leans across to her and says the Delta Airlines motto: 'We love to fly and it shows'.

The woman looks at him blankly. He sits back and thinks up another line.

He leans forward again and delivers the Air France motto "Winning the hearts of the world". Again she just stares at him with a slightly puzzled look on her face.

Undeterred, he tries again, this time saying the Malaysian Airlines motto "Going beyond expectations".

The woman looks at him and says "What the fvck do you want?"


'Ah!' he says, sitting back with a smile on his face. 'El-Al'.

[Hollis]

I am glad to see other med folks chime in. One of the biggest things a person learns in first aid classes, are things you can not do. I am rusty, so thanks to all who added to this thread.

[Firetxmi]

One of the biggest things a person learns in first aid classes, are things you can not do.

Unfortunately it has to be that way since our culture is of the impression that anyone who doesn't do precisely the right thing should be sued into bankruptcy.

[LEGEND]

I read this and I was blown away at the level of negligence. I'll bet it has something to do with the destination when it comes to the faulty equipment.
And I'm not talking about Brooklyn.
I hope they sue AA into bankruptcy.

American Airlines Passenger Dies After Being Treated With Empty Oxygen Tank



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332189,00.html

The oxygen tanks on the plane are not for medical purposes but for cabin depressurization emergency. Also it is according to the cousin that the tanks were empty, according to the airline the tanks were working properly. To claim that planes flying to Haiti are maintained differently then those flying domestically is just RETARDED. The planes do not fly specific routes, they fly routes according to the routes predetermined by airline routers, and there is no way an A300 would be reserved for at most once a day flight to Haiti.
Oh and JFK is not in Brooklyn...

[Libertas]

Title is kind of mis-leading. It was an unfortuniate event but no need to always blame (and usually sue) someone for these incidents. It appears that the cousin's statements (blaming the airlines and eqipment) are based on observations of equipment he had no knowledge of. The oxygen tank might still be in question, but as confirmed by the doctor, the defibrillator was in working order.

[ggk]

Approximately one person a month dies on an Emirates flight. There is also approximately one case of passenger restraint (flexi-cuffs) per month.

Analysis anyone?

wow really.... died of what?

[Bongopete]

I thought another one died.