PR0L0gic
03-02-2008, 09:02 PM
A small “intro” taken from a History Channels’ documentary (http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1j4U79eBMo)
The cause of this topic is to dismiss the historical lies which conform the propaganda of the Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia in order to claim the history and the name of ancient Macedonia in a way that raises territorial claims against Greece!
And the question for some is: "Where the ancient Macedonians Greeks?"
Just check the following documentaries produced and broadcasted by some major global networks:
• BBC documentaries on Ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=BBC+Documentary+Macedonians+&search_type=)
• History Channel - Age of Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22Age+of+Alexander+the+Great%22&search_type=)
• Encyclopedia Channel - Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Alexander+the+Great+-+Encyclopedia+channel&search_type=)
Some basic points regarding the Greekness of ancient Macedonia:
1. Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language. All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language
2. Macedonians had Greek names, the regions of ancient Macedonia had also Greek names and Macedonian architecture was similar to Greek architecture
3. Macedonians took part in the Olympic games, at a time that ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games
4. Macedonians woshipped the same Gods and celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks
5. Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks against enemies from Asia
Why the Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia should not be named "Macedonia"?
• The contemporary region of Macedonia is a wider region in the Balkan peninsula that spans across several modern states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28region%29), mainly Greece, Bulgaria, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and Albania.
• The monopolization of the name by FYROM and its citizens creates semiological confusion, as it becomes increasingly difficult to disambiguate which "Macedonia", which "Macedonians" and what "Macedonian language" are referred to in each occasion.
• The name "Republic of Macedonia" implies a territorial threat against Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute#Territorial_concerns) and other countries and it creates a great risk of renewed ethnic conflict in the Balkans.
• FYROM's population is a mixture of many different ethnic groups. Only 60% of them are "ethnic Macedonians". There is also a large minority of Albanians (30%) and smaller groups of Serbs, Turks, Greeks and others.
• The area of FYROM was never called "Macedonia" before the 2nd World War. This name was given to the Southern Yugoslavian province by General Tito aiming to create conflicts in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian teritories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.
• FYROM's residents have no historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia.
• The heart of ancient Macedonia was not in the territory which FYROM occupies but in the Greek part of Macedonia were all the major archaeological discoveries took place.
• Ancient Macedonia and its civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization.
Distortion of the ancient history
The Slavic propaganda is often based on quotes from ancient historians (mainly Greek) who seem to suggest that Macedonia was a different nation. However:
• These quotes usually consist of one or two isolated lines which is misleading. After careful reading of the whole document the meaning is completely different.
• The translation is not accurate or some words have been carefully altered to change the meaning.
• There are various recently-published textbooks which contain maps of "Greater Macedonia" extending many miles into Greece and Bulgaria!
• The "S. Res. 300 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.Res.300:)" Resolution of the US Senate points out that FYROM propaganda, contrary to the U. N. Interim Accord, instills hostility and a rationale of irredentism in portions of the population of FYROM toward Greece and the history of Greece.
• Students in schools of FYROM are being taught that parts of Greece, including Greek Macedonia, are rightfully parts of FYROM!
PROPAGANDA IN FYROM'S SCHOOL BOOKS (with english subtitles) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIKDhhTvnU)
Independent resources supporting the Greek side
Ethnographic Map of the Balkans by E. Stanford (1877):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Macedonia-1877-Stanford.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece
“The Greeks are believed to have migrated southward into the Balkan peninsula in several waves beginning in the late 3rd millennium BC, the last being the Dorian invasion.”
Cities and towns of ancient Greece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Ancient_Greek_cities.PNG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Ancient_Greek_cities.PNG)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonies
“Several city-states (more than thirty) of ancient Greece had multiple colonies of settlement throughout the Mediterranean world, with the most active being Miletus, with ninety colonies stretching throughout the Mediterranean Sea, from the shores of the Black Sea and Anatolia (modern Turkey) in the east, to the southern coast of the Iberian Peninsula in the west, as well as several colonies on the northern coast of Africa with the overall sum[citation needed] being 1500 from the late ninth, up to the 5th century BC.”
Greek influence in the mid 6th century BC:
http://www.wwnorton.com/nrl/english/nawol/maps/MAP7GRCO.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonians
“Whether the ancient Macedonians were an ethnically Greek people themselves continues to be debated by historians, linguists, and lay people. However, the Macedonian Royal family known as the Argead dynasty claimed Greek descent. Macedonians were allowed to the Olympic Games, an athletic event that people only of Greek origin participated[2][3].”
The expansion of the ancient Macedonians in 4th. BC:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Macedon2.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_language
“The Pella curse tablet, a text written in a distinct Doric Greek idiom, found in 1986, dated to between mid to early 4th century BC, has been forwarded as an argument that the ancient Macedonian language was a dialect of North-Western Greek, part of the Doric dialects (O. Masson, 1996). Before the discovery it was proposed that the Macedonian dialect was an early form of Greek, spoken alongside Doric proper at that time (Rhomiopoulou, 1980).”
The Pella curse tablet (Greek katadesmos):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Pellatab.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Greek
“The Proto-Greek language is the assumed last common ancestor of all known varieties of Greek, including the Mycenaean language, the classical Greek dialects Attic-Ionic, Aeolic, Doric and North-Western Greek, and ultimately the Koine and Modern Greek. Most scholars would include the fragmentary Ancient Macedonian language, either as descended from an earlier "Proto-Hellenic" language, or by definition including it among the descendants of Proto-Greek as a Hellenic language and/or a Greek dialect.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedon
“Macedon or Macedonia (Greek Μακεδονία Makedonía) was the name of a kingdom in the northern-most part of ancient Greece, bordered by the kingdom of Epirus to the west and the region of Thrace to the east.[1] For a brief period it became the most powerful state in the ancient Near East after Alexander the Great conquered most of the known world, inaugurating the Hellenistic period of Greek history.”
“The first Macedonian state emerged in the 8th or early 7th century BC under the Argead Dynasty, who allegedly migrated to the region from the southern Greek city of Argos (thus the name Argead).”
The Peloponnesian War:
http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web03/atlases/ancient%20warfare/AncientGIFS/PeloponnesianWarAlliances.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_Greece
“The Hellenistic period of Ancient Greek history was the period between the death of Alexander the Great (Alexander III of Macedon) in 323 BC and the annexation of the Greek peninsula and islands by Rome in 146 BC. Although the establishment of Roman rule did not break the continuity of Hellenistic society and culture, which remained essentially unchanged until the advent of Christianity, it did mark the end of Greek political independence.”
“Hellenistic simply means Greek and Asian Culture together. The conquests of Alexander had a number of consequences for the Greek city-states. It greatly widened the horizons of the Greeks, making the endless conflicts between the cities which had marked the 5th and 4th centuries BC seem petty and unimportant. It led to a steady emigration, particularly of the young and ambitious, to the new Greek empires in the east.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great
“Alexander the Great (Greek: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος,[1][2] Megas Alexandros; July 20 356 BC – June 10 323 BC),[3][4][5] also known as Alexander III, was an ancient Greek[6][7][8] king (basileus) of Macedon (336–323 BC).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks
“Ancient Greek colonies and communities were established throughout the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, including Magna Graecia, Marseille and Barcelona, but Greek people have always concentrated around the Aegean coasts, where the Greek language has been spoken since antiquity.”
Ancient Macedonia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/LocationMacedonia-MAC-2-z.png
Modern Macedonia in Greece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/LocationMacedonia-HEL-2-z.png
Greek Macedonia VS FYROM, a territorial comparison:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Macedonia_Greece-Republic.jpg
The region of FYROM as perceived by extremist ethnic FYROMian irredentists:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Ethnicmacedonia.jpg
-THE END-
For the ones who whish to support Greece on the Macedonian issue (http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/65250) (I hope this wont be taken as spam or advertising) I have crated a “cause (http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/65250)” in Facebook.
Manny thanks for your time folks,
Cheers!
The cause of this topic is to dismiss the historical lies which conform the propaganda of the Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia in order to claim the history and the name of ancient Macedonia in a way that raises territorial claims against Greece!
And the question for some is: "Where the ancient Macedonians Greeks?"
Just check the following documentaries produced and broadcasted by some major global networks:
• BBC documentaries on Ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=BBC+Documentary+Macedonians+&search_type=)
• History Channel - Age of Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22Age+of+Alexander+the+Great%22&search_type=)
• Encyclopedia Channel - Alexander the Great (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Alexander+the+Great+-+Encyclopedia+channel&search_type=)
Some basic points regarding the Greekness of ancient Macedonia:
1. Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language. All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language
2. Macedonians had Greek names, the regions of ancient Macedonia had also Greek names and Macedonian architecture was similar to Greek architecture
3. Macedonians took part in the Olympic games, at a time that ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games
4. Macedonians woshipped the same Gods and celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks
5. Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks against enemies from Asia
Why the Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia should not be named "Macedonia"?
• The contemporary region of Macedonia is a wider region in the Balkan peninsula that spans across several modern states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28region%29), mainly Greece, Bulgaria, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and Albania.
• The monopolization of the name by FYROM and its citizens creates semiological confusion, as it becomes increasingly difficult to disambiguate which "Macedonia", which "Macedonians" and what "Macedonian language" are referred to in each occasion.
• The name "Republic of Macedonia" implies a territorial threat against Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute#Territorial_concerns) and other countries and it creates a great risk of renewed ethnic conflict in the Balkans.
• FYROM's population is a mixture of many different ethnic groups. Only 60% of them are "ethnic Macedonians". There is also a large minority of Albanians (30%) and smaller groups of Serbs, Turks, Greeks and others.
• The area of FYROM was never called "Macedonia" before the 2nd World War. This name was given to the Southern Yugoslavian province by General Tito aiming to create conflicts in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian teritories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.
• FYROM's residents have no historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia.
• The heart of ancient Macedonia was not in the territory which FYROM occupies but in the Greek part of Macedonia were all the major archaeological discoveries took place.
• Ancient Macedonia and its civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization.
Distortion of the ancient history
The Slavic propaganda is often based on quotes from ancient historians (mainly Greek) who seem to suggest that Macedonia was a different nation. However:
• These quotes usually consist of one or two isolated lines which is misleading. After careful reading of the whole document the meaning is completely different.
• The translation is not accurate or some words have been carefully altered to change the meaning.
• There are various recently-published textbooks which contain maps of "Greater Macedonia" extending many miles into Greece and Bulgaria!
• The "S. Res. 300 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.Res.300:)" Resolution of the US Senate points out that FYROM propaganda, contrary to the U. N. Interim Accord, instills hostility and a rationale of irredentism in portions of the population of FYROM toward Greece and the history of Greece.
• Students in schools of FYROM are being taught that parts of Greece, including Greek Macedonia, are rightfully parts of FYROM!
PROPAGANDA IN FYROM'S SCHOOL BOOKS (with english subtitles) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIKDhhTvnU)
Independent resources supporting the Greek side
Ethnographic Map of the Balkans by E. Stanford (1877):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Macedonia-1877-Stanford.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece
“The Greeks are believed to have migrated southward into the Balkan peninsula in several waves beginning in the late 3rd millennium BC, the last being the Dorian invasion.”
Cities and towns of ancient Greece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Ancient_Greek_cities.PNG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Ancient_Greek_cities.PNG)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonies
“Several city-states (more than thirty) of ancient Greece had multiple colonies of settlement throughout the Mediterranean world, with the most active being Miletus, with ninety colonies stretching throughout the Mediterranean Sea, from the shores of the Black Sea and Anatolia (modern Turkey) in the east, to the southern coast of the Iberian Peninsula in the west, as well as several colonies on the northern coast of Africa with the overall sum[citation needed] being 1500 from the late ninth, up to the 5th century BC.”
Greek influence in the mid 6th century BC:
http://www.wwnorton.com/nrl/english/nawol/maps/MAP7GRCO.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonians
“Whether the ancient Macedonians were an ethnically Greek people themselves continues to be debated by historians, linguists, and lay people. However, the Macedonian Royal family known as the Argead dynasty claimed Greek descent. Macedonians were allowed to the Olympic Games, an athletic event that people only of Greek origin participated[2][3].”
The expansion of the ancient Macedonians in 4th. BC:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Macedon2.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_language
“The Pella curse tablet, a text written in a distinct Doric Greek idiom, found in 1986, dated to between mid to early 4th century BC, has been forwarded as an argument that the ancient Macedonian language was a dialect of North-Western Greek, part of the Doric dialects (O. Masson, 1996). Before the discovery it was proposed that the Macedonian dialect was an early form of Greek, spoken alongside Doric proper at that time (Rhomiopoulou, 1980).”
The Pella curse tablet (Greek katadesmos):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Pellatab.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Greek
“The Proto-Greek language is the assumed last common ancestor of all known varieties of Greek, including the Mycenaean language, the classical Greek dialects Attic-Ionic, Aeolic, Doric and North-Western Greek, and ultimately the Koine and Modern Greek. Most scholars would include the fragmentary Ancient Macedonian language, either as descended from an earlier "Proto-Hellenic" language, or by definition including it among the descendants of Proto-Greek as a Hellenic language and/or a Greek dialect.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedon
“Macedon or Macedonia (Greek Μακεδονία Makedonía) was the name of a kingdom in the northern-most part of ancient Greece, bordered by the kingdom of Epirus to the west and the region of Thrace to the east.[1] For a brief period it became the most powerful state in the ancient Near East after Alexander the Great conquered most of the known world, inaugurating the Hellenistic period of Greek history.”
“The first Macedonian state emerged in the 8th or early 7th century BC under the Argead Dynasty, who allegedly migrated to the region from the southern Greek city of Argos (thus the name Argead).”
The Peloponnesian War:
http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web03/atlases/ancient%20warfare/AncientGIFS/PeloponnesianWarAlliances.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_Greece
“The Hellenistic period of Ancient Greek history was the period between the death of Alexander the Great (Alexander III of Macedon) in 323 BC and the annexation of the Greek peninsula and islands by Rome in 146 BC. Although the establishment of Roman rule did not break the continuity of Hellenistic society and culture, which remained essentially unchanged until the advent of Christianity, it did mark the end of Greek political independence.”
“Hellenistic simply means Greek and Asian Culture together. The conquests of Alexander had a number of consequences for the Greek city-states. It greatly widened the horizons of the Greeks, making the endless conflicts between the cities which had marked the 5th and 4th centuries BC seem petty and unimportant. It led to a steady emigration, particularly of the young and ambitious, to the new Greek empires in the east.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great
“Alexander the Great (Greek: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος,[1][2] Megas Alexandros; July 20 356 BC – June 10 323 BC),[3][4][5] also known as Alexander III, was an ancient Greek[6][7][8] king (basileus) of Macedon (336–323 BC).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks
“Ancient Greek colonies and communities were established throughout the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, including Magna Graecia, Marseille and Barcelona, but Greek people have always concentrated around the Aegean coasts, where the Greek language has been spoken since antiquity.”
Ancient Macedonia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/LocationMacedonia-MAC-2-z.png
Modern Macedonia in Greece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/LocationMacedonia-HEL-2-z.png
Greek Macedonia VS FYROM, a territorial comparison:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Macedonia_Greece-Republic.jpg
The region of FYROM as perceived by extremist ethnic FYROMian irredentists:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Ethnicmacedonia.jpg
-THE END-
For the ones who whish to support Greece on the Macedonian issue (http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/65250) (I hope this wont be taken as spam or advertising) I have crated a “cause (http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/65250)” in Facebook.
Manny thanks for your time folks,
Cheers!