Lesbian Moms a Growing U.S. Phenomenon

[Seraphim]

By Teresa Carson

PORTLAND, Ore. (*******) - "I love my lesbian moms," read a hand-lettered sign a teen-ager held up recently to motorists passing a county building in Portland, Oregon, where gay couples lined up to get marriage licenses.


The message, prompted by the heated national debate over gay marriage, underscored a growing phenomenon -- lesbian couples having babies and raising families.


According to the Family Pride Coalition, a national advocacy group for gay and lesbian families, some 9 million children in America have at least one gay parent and one in five lesbian coupled households include a child under 18.


"I wouldn't call it a baby boom exactly. It has been steadily growing all along," said Aimee Gelnaw, a lesbian mother of two and executive director of the coalition.


Using artificial insemination to get pregnant, lesbians are four times more likely to have children than gay men.


"Same-*** couples and single women are 40 percent of our business, and it is the fastest-growing segment," said Marla Eby, vice president of marketing at California Cryobank Inc., Los Angeles, which ships semen nationwide.


The earliest lesbian-couple families often included children born into hetero****** marriages before the mothers "came out" as lesbians.


But in the 1980s many sperm banks opened their doors to unmarried women, making unconventional families more feasible.


Gay pride celebrations have begun including child-centered events with face painting and play activities. Gay parents can flip through the glossy magazine "And Baby" geared to their families.


CHOOSING A DONOR


The first step for lesbian would-be parents is choosing a sperm donor. Gay rights groups say the matter goes beyond weighing physical and mental attributes. Legal issues can arise, such as whether the donor would let the child know his identity, when he or she comes of age.


Once the baby is born, couples often take legal steps to protect their families. In the states that allow it, the non-biological mother often adopts the baby so both mothers' names can go on the birth certificate.


Unlike hetero****** married couples, lesbians often have to draw up complicated wills and directives to protect their families should one partner die or the relationship end.


The fragility of these families was recently brought home on a story line of the television show "ER" in which a female doctor and a female firefighter have a baby together. When the firefighter dies, her parents -- the biological grandparents -- refuse to hand over the infant boy to his other mother.


"The story line is very significant in my own life," said "ER" executive producer Dee Johnson, who has two sons with her female partner of 10 years.


Gelnaw relocated while she was adopting her partner's baby. When a judge declared the adoption "provisional," Gelnaw had to fly back several times for follow-up interviews.


"I have a master's degree in child development and I had to prove I was a fit parent. I had to sit there with this caseworker and tell her what we feed Dewey (their daughter) for breakfast," Gelnaw said.





Despite greater acceptance generally, vocal opponents of same-*** parenting remain. "We do not support gay marriage, gay adoption or gay people becoming parents," Michelle Ammons, director of communications for the Christian Coalition said. "We don't support bringing children into the gay lifestyle."

GOOD PARENTS

As a result, lesbian mothers sometimes move to "friendlier" states or communities, including Seattle and Portland.

Many lesbian couples also consider their children's well-being before they conceive, including the impact of not having a male role model in the home. Couples also worry that their children would be teased at school or the playground.

"We would have never had Carson if we had thought she would be bullied or have a hard time," Liz Viggiano, a Portland nurse said, rocking her 10-month-old daughter to sleep.

Studies show lesbian parents are doing a good job. "Absolutely, these kids do fine," said Dr. Nanette Gartrell, a psychiatrist at the University of California, San Francisco, who is in the 18th year of a study on lesbian families created by donor insemination.

Sometimes the children themselves put the whole controversy in perspective. Gelnaw said her son Zack decided on his own to stop giving interviews by the age of 12.

"Time magazine wanted to talk with him. He usually enjoyed doing the interviews, but we discussed it and he said 'No, I don't want to do it. I'm just a kid with parents, there is nothing to talk about."'

[StarvingStudent47]

Frankly, the argument "but their household won't be as stable and supportive as someone else's" doesn't hold water when we allow Michael Jackson and Courtney love to raise children. I'd be surprised if there was a single person here who didn't think that Ellen Degeneres or the Indigo Girls would be better parents than Michael Jackson or Courtney Love.

[scm77]

I'd love to have lesbian parents, as long as they were both hot raaarrrwww. rofl rofl That's sick.

[California Joe]

Dear Penthouse......

[scm77]

rofl

[mattnwnc03]

thank heaven for the lesbian!!i like girls does that mean i can be one???? woot :lol: rofl

[molly747]

Sure, just order your "Uterus & Breast" set off of beawoman.com. It's so easy, although you have to read the instruction manuel very caref... oh, look who I'm talking to... nevermind...

[Fintin]

i dont know...but if my mom was a lesbian...it would take the edge of how cool lesbians are....just my thoughts

[molly747]

Boys, I know lesbians personally. They're not as cool and sexy as you think. They're just regular people.

[Fintin]

Boys, I know lesbians personally. They're not as cool and sexy as you think. They're just regular people.

but if i was forced to watch two people make out...i would pick tow women...they may be normal but they kiss other girls....

[StarvingStudent47]

Boys, I know lesbians personally. They're not as cool and sexy as you think. They're just regular people.

Yeah, but flannel-wearing folksingers with short hair and no makeup can make decent parents ;) Agreed, 99% of lesbians are NOT sexy, but they're not trying to attract my attention anyway, so who cares.

[scott]

its not that 99% of lesbians are not sexy
nor that they in general are sexy
i believe what molly was trying to say is that there are sexy ones and unsexy ones

just like straight women

[Gauntlet]

Its true. I'm pretty sure I saw a couple in TGI Fridays.

Both fat, not exactly pretty, and one was using all efforts to look like a man.

[molly747]

What I was trying to say was that people view lesbians as either ***-crazed Jenna Jameson-types or butch, crewcut-wearings dykes. Most of the women I know look and act like any other woman. As long as someone is responsible and loving, they deserve to be a parent. Can't take that away from someone.

[Midtown]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

[StarvingStudent47]

What I was trying to say was that people view lesbians as either ***-crazed Jenna Jameson-types or butch, crewcut-wearings dykes. Most of the women I know look and act like any other woman. As long as someone is responsible and loving, they deserve to be a parent. Can't take that away from someone.

Frankly, a lot of the lesbians I know ARE butch and crewcut-wearing. Not all, but honestly perhaps a majority. On the other hand, I live in the Pacific Northwest, and most of my friends are late teens and early 20s, so EVERYONE tends to be a bit more forward about that sort of stuff.

Besides, even if a woman IS butch and crewcut-wearing, WHO CARES? It doesn't affect my life whatsoever--or anybody's life besides her own--so I don't see why anybody should object.

EDIT--in retrospect, the majority of lesbians I know do the thick-rimmed artsy glasses and the short-hair-and-barettes thing. It is a very forward "I'm a lesbian" look, but it's not the crewcut-and-flannel stereotype. The second most common look among the lesbians I know is the crewcut-and-flannel look. The third most common look is the "ordinary mainstream woman" look, and I have NEVER met a lesbian who does the "Jenna Jamison **** star" look. Just for clarification.

[Nawlins]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

kinda have a good point there

[ibstolidude]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

kinda have a good point there
I prefer a try******.

ahh bi-****** girls, brings me back to a happy time.

hmmmmmmmmm

[Nawlins]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

kinda have a good point there
I prefer a try******.

ahh bi-****** girls, brings me back to a happy time.

hmmmmmmmmm

Try******? Will try anything?

A happy time, huh? You mean college?

[California Joe]

ahhhh bi****** girls.....wait, I'm too old.....I don't remember college. Nevermind.

[ibstolidude]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

kinda have a good point there
I prefer a try******.

ahh bi-****** girls, brings me back to a happy time.

hmmmmmmmmm

Try******? Will try anything?

A happy time, huh? You mean college?
No I mean Cali Joe's house last weekend.

I mean WOW.

[California Joe]

I'm really P Diddy you know. Yeah,yeah,yeah....

[Trigger]

I think you mean 'Howdy Diddy' d'oh!

[California Joe]

Check out the Buffalo Bob reference on the old monkey.

[Nawlins]

lesbians arent sexy, bi girls are, because usually to be bi, you have to be able to attract both men and women, so you cant be that fugly.

kinda have a good point there
I prefer a try******.

ahh bi-****** girls, brings me back to a happy time.

hmmmmmmmmm

Try******? Will try anything?

A happy time, huh? You mean college?
No I mean Cali Joe's house last weekend.

I mean WOW.

And you didn't invite me? Bastards.

[California Joe]

That's how you know he's lyin' baby. Got you on speed dial.... p-)

[Nawlins]

That's how you know he's lyin' baby. Got you on speed dial.... p-)

You better!

[hank]

Not to get back on topic or anything, but I'm with SS47 and some others. I really am convinced that ****** preference is genetic with very little "nurture" involved. I mean if you molest a child he'll likely end up being messed up (maybe deviant more often than homo******), but otherwise I'm not hetero b/c my Mom is. I'm hetero b/c ****s give me wood. simple as that. No thought, just reaction. Let'em have at it, I say. World might be a better place, and hard to get much worse, really.

As an aside, are there any "numbers" from real studies that show whether parent's ******ity is a factor in their offspring's ******ity. I bet there are no numbers but if there were they would show no difference. Thoughts?

hank

[California Joe]

Kids need nurturing and love. Period. When they are puking in the middle of the night they don't really give a **** if Mom has a mullet.

[Nawlins]

Not to get back on topic or anything, but I'm with SS47 and some others. I really am convinced that ****** preference is genetic with very little "nurture" involved. I mean if you molest a child he'll likely end up being messed up (maybe deviant more often than homo******), but otherwise I'm not hetero b/c my Mom is. I'm hetero b/c ****s give me wood. simple as that. No thought, just reaction. Let'em have at it, I say. World might be a better place, and hard to get much worse, really.

As an aside, are there any "numbers" from real studies that show whether parent's ******ity is a factor in their offspring's ******ity. I bet there are no numbers but if there were they would show no difference. Thoughts?

hank

I don't think parent's ******ity has much influence on kids, with the exception that they might be more open to other possibilities. Other than that, I don't know what I think about it.

[hank]

Kids need nurturing and love. Period. When they are puking in the middle of the night they don't really give a **** if Mom has a mullet.

True, true. MC doesn't ask me whether I like "hair pie or b**ls across the nose" before I wipe the poop off her you know what. I doubt she ever will. :D

hank

[California Joe]

It's a simple principle really. Love them. Not saying I'm the best at that but I try.

[Nawlins]

Kids need nurturing and love. Period. When they are puking in the middle of the night they don't really give a **** if Mom has a mullet.

True, true. MC doesn't ask me whether I like "hair pie or b**ls across the nose" before I wipe the poop off her you know what. I doubt she ever will. :D

hank

That's an interesting way to put it... but I see your point.

[hank]

It's a simple principle really. Love them. Not saying I'm the best at that but I try.

Word, that's all anybody can do and a lofty goal.

hank

[StarvingStudent47]

Not to get back on topic or anything, but I'm with SS47 and some others. I really am convinced that ****** preference is genetic with very little "nurture" involved. I mean if you molest a child he'll likely end up being messed up (maybe deviant more often than homo******), but otherwise I'm not hetero b/c my Mom is. I'm hetero b/c ****s give me wood. simple as that. No thought, just reaction. Let'em have at it, I say. World might be a better place, and hard to get much worse, really.

As an aside, are there any "numbers" from real studies that show whether parent's ******ity is a factor in their offspring's ******ity. I bet there are no numbers but if there were they would show no difference. Thoughts?

hank

I've known a lot of gay people in my life (I worked in theater in high school and college--nuff said), and every single one of them had straight parents. While I do believe ****** orientation is determined at birth and not environmental (I didn't need any "training" to "become straight," after all, and I've never met a straight person who did need "training"), I don't think homo******ity is hereditary.

It's not a "real study," but I do have a significant amount of empirical evidence that I'm working from.

Another way to think about it: If straight people had straight kids, and gay people had gay kids, there wouldn't be any gays on the planet. The fact that roughly 10% of the population is bi****** or gay is pretty good evidence in itself that it is NOT hereditary.

[Haiw]

To put it simple: I think it's better for a child to have 2 loving lesbian mothers than two (or 1) hetero****** parents that don't give a damn about the child at all and / or are never there for them.

[Durandal]

...and every single one of them had straight parents. While I do believe ****** orientation is determined at birth and not environmental (I didn't need any "training" to "become straight," after all, and I've never met a straight person who did need "training"), I don't think homo******ity is hereditary.

I wonder how many studies are done on gay family members OTHER than parents.

Keep in mind that up till about thirty years ago, if you were gay you still got married or REALLY stayed in the closet.

I think it will probably take us another generation or two to TRULY understand it.

My money is on hereditary.

Why? Because of my gay friends that ACTUALLY know, three out of seven know of other family members being gay. We are all in our 30s and late 20s. Our parents, their parents, and associted siblings never talked about who was gay. You went on living a secret life. Give this current generation or the next to grow up and see what happens then.

I think we will see more conclusive evidence whether ******ity is based on genetic code OR social events...or maybe even both...

[StarvingStudent47]

My money is on hereditary.

Why? Because of my gay friends that ACTUALLY know, three out of seven know of other family members being gay. We are all in our 30s and late 20s. Our parents, their parents, and associted siblings never talked about who was gay. You went on living a secret life. Give this current generation or the next to grow up and see what happens then.

I think we will see more conclusive evidence whether ******ity is based on genetic code OR social events...or maybe even both...

3 of 7 gay people have a gay relative? Well, if 10% of the population is gay (the figure most often bantered about), then I think it's safe to assume that 3 of 7 STRAIGHT people have a gay relative. Maybe it's just that the gay people have more motivation to inquire on the subject.

[Durandal]

3 of 7 gay people have a gay relative? Well, if 10% of the population is gay (the figure most often bantered about), then I think it's safe to assume that 3 of 7 STRAIGHT people have a gay relative. Maybe it's just that the gay people have more motivation to inquire on the subject.

A) That is my own personal bubble of reality. No hard number nationaly, hell, even locally.

B) Again, because of the stigma associated with being gay, we do not know how many hom******s, or who was a homo****** 50 years ago. How can ANYONE have conclusive data that shows either way? Can we show a direct lineage of hom******s in Family X vs. Family Y that has none or an extremely small amount? No, its impossible. You need hard data. This is not like being a minority based on skin color or color blindness. Even the estimated number of homo******s is just that, estimated. Cincinnati's gay population, "estimated" at being nearly the same (per capita) as San Francisco's...but, no one actually really knows. We need a generation or two where we can really get solid figures to get a good answer.

C) Let's play with the 3 in 7 number though, just for kicks. What if , genetically speaking, homo******s and the genetic line they come from share SOMETHING in common that determines an increase in the chance that a male or female child is a homo******? We KNOW (i.e. it is fact) thatfraternal twins are NOT born in the same ratios to each ethnic group. African-Americans have a higher percentage while Asian couples have the lowest, with Caucasions sitting right in the middle.

Of course, you can use a similar argument against the idea by examining identical twins. Identical twins are considered a "quirk" and happen, quite literally, at random with no proof that this trait is passed through the generational lines. The numbers, world wide are always the same..average...with no ethnic group dominating another in commonality of the event.

Homo******ity could very be a "quirk"that happens in 10% of our society...or less with the difference being made up by social impact...much like the increase in twins by using of fertility enhancements.

Then again, I am not a doctor. I still cannot see a rational answer to this question though without getting hard data. Data that is lacking because of a social stigma...that is slowly changing...it will be years though, I believe...maybe even decades before we actually see a link.

Bah, who knows...

I can be honest with myself and play Devil's Advocate...because I understand that the data simply is NOT there...