Tests Confirm Sarin Gas in Baghdad Bomb

[Seraphim]

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Comprehensive testing has confirmed the presence of the chemical weapon sarin in the remains of a roadside bomb discovered this month in Baghdad, a defense official said Tuesday.


The determination, made by a laboratory in the United States that the official would not identify, verifies what earlier, less-thorough field tests had found: the bomb was made from an artillery shell designed to disperse the deadly nerve agent on the battlefield.


The origin of the shell remains unclear, and finding that out is a priority for the U.S. military, the defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.


Some analysts worry the 155-millimeter artillery shell, found rigged as a bomb on May 15, may be part of a larger stockpile of Iraqi chemical weapons that insurgents can now use. But no more have turned up, and several military officials have said the shell may have been an older one that predated the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites).


It likewise is not known whether the bombers knew they had a chemical weapon. Military officials have said the shell bore no labels to indicate it was anything except a normal explosive shell, the type used to make scores of roadside bombs in Iraq (news - web sites).


No one was injured in the shell's initial detonation, but two American soldiers who removed the round had symptoms of low-level nerve agent exposure, officials said last week.


The shell was a binary type, which has two chambers containing relatively safe chemicals. When the round is fired from an artillery gun, its rotation mixes the chemicals to create sarin, which is supposed to disperse when the shell strikes its target.


Since it was not fired from a gun but was detonated as a bomb, the initial explosion on May 15 dispersed the precursor chemicals, apparently mixing them in only small amounts, officials said then. In battle, such shells would have to be fired in great numbers to effect a large body of troops.


Iraq's first field-test of a binary-type shell containing sarin was in 1988, U.S. defense officials have said.


Saddam's government only disclosed the testing and production after Iraqi weapons chief Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel al-Majid, Saddam's son-in-law, defected in 1995. Saddam's government never declared any sarin or shells filled with sarin remained.


Saddam's alleged stockpile of weapons of mass destruction was the Bush administration's chief stated reason for invading Iraq. U.S. weapons hunters have been unable to validate the prewar intelligence.


Some trace elements of mustard agent, an older type of chemical weapon, were detected in an artillery shell found in a Baghdad street this month, U.S. officials said previously. The shell also was believed to be from one of Saddam's old stockpiles.

[Romulus]

Wait! But there is NO kind of WMD anywhere in Iraq. :roll:

[Kilgor]

Wait! But there is NO kind of WMD anywhere in Iraq. :roll:

It must have been one that fell of the back of the truck on the way to handing them into the weapons inspectors :roll:

[Secret Squirrel]

holy ****! they should have nuked Iraq rather than take the chance of putting troops on the ground in an environment thats ripe with WMDs!!! "The sky is falling!"...Chicken Little. rofl rofl rofl

[Kilgor]

ah.. typical

now banned weapons have been found its "well... its only one, so what"

:cantbeli:

[scm77]

They say Bush lied about WMD, then when they find one they say it's just one. One that Saddam lied about destroying. And where there's one there is more.

[seruriermarshal]

In fact Saddam lie to everybody .

[Secret Squirrel]

In fact Saddam lie to everybody .

so did bush. rofl

[seruriermarshal]

In fact Saddam lie to everybody .

so did bush. rofl

Perhaps you can tell Saddam how hidden his Sarin .

rofl

[Secret Squirrel]

In fact Saddam lie to everybody .

so did bush. rofl

Perhaps you can tell Saddam how hidden his Sarin .

rofl

huh? was your comment suppose to make sense? rofl

Welcome to the list of Bush speeches...

United Nations Address, Sept. 12, 2002:
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." <---oops, looks like he lied.

Radio Address, Oct. 5, 2002:
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."<--lied again

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons." <---oops, they werent used; i guess Saddam misplaced them?

Cincinnati, Ohio Speech, Oct. 7, 2002:
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas." <--thousands of tons eh? hrm that shouldnt be hard to find right?

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States." <--lol The ever feared Iraqi airforce? Where did this fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles go? Or was it meant to refer to that unmanned Iraqi drone showed during the initial occupation (or invasion?)..."Mr President, a done from Iraq will be here in just under 2 days, what do we do?!"

Maybe Bush shouldnt have listened to an Iraqi in exhile when he decided to throw good soldiers on the battle field to die.

[SFontaine]

While one isn't the "huge stockpiles" President Bush spoke of it certainly shows there were chems in Iraq somewhere.. Let's hope more turn up.

[seruriermarshal]

Yes , now only a Sarin , but have more in there .

[American Patriot]

At least the al-Qaida connections stick

[Kilgor]

I hope so too

it would be a huge embarrisment for hans blix

[Romulus]

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

Whats your point squirrel?

[Kilgor]

even france and germany had intelligence that saddam had banned weapons .

[CPL Trevoga]

Gents, Iraq used Sarin on Kurds back in 1988 killing 5000 and he used chemical weapons with Iranians. Thats proof enough.

[Secret Squirrel]

Gents, Iraq used Sarin on Kurds back in 1988 killing 5000 and he used chemical weapons with Iranians. Thats proof enough.

are you an idiot? proof enough for what? to wait 15+ years to go into Iraq? Why wasnt this done during the first Gulf War? Why have numerous weapons inspectors, both European and American quit over this issue? Prove that Saddam knew where that one shell containing Sarin was.

[mattnwnc03]

chemical and bio weapons are definantly not cool.they scared the doo doo out of us in the first gulf war.id rather face machine gun fire than nbc weapons.

[Secret Squirrel]

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

Whats your point squirrel?

You just added to my point by pointing out more lies. Thanks. rofl

[CPL Trevoga]

Gents, Iraq used Sarin on Kurds back in 1988 killing 5000 and he used chemical weapons with Iranians. Thats proof enough.

are you an idiot? proof enough for what? to wait 15+ years to go into Iraq? Why wasnt this done during the first Gulf War? Why have numerous weapons inspectors, both European and American quit over this issue? Prove that Saddam knew where that one shell containing Sarin was.

I think that if a country was able to produce chem. weapons 15 years ago, it does mean that they have a capability to produce chem. weapons 15 years later, don't you agree? Plus 15 years ago we lived in a different world.

[SFontaine]

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

Whats your point squirrel?

You just added to my point by pointing out more lies. Thanks. rofl

Are you daft? Those are Democrats.. Democrats who opposed the war who, prior to it being being cool to be anti-Iraq war, said Saddam was a danger. The point is people were wrong and people make mistakes. Saddam had all the intl intel communites fooled.

[Operation Ivy]

SS seems angry :petting:

[Romulus]

SS seems angry

Angry? Somehow this **** thinks sarin gas is funny.


Also why did you edit my post in your reply to exclude Jacque Chirac's statement? If you quote someone you better quote me word for word douche.

[Secret Squirrel]

SS seems angry

Also why did you edit my post in your reply to exclude Jacque Chirac's statement? If you quote someone you better quote me word for word douche.

because moron i kept the quotes taken since 911. Ya know, one of the real reasons this war occurred.

[Secret Squirrel]

Gents, Iraq used Sarin on Kurds back in 1988 killing 5000 and he used chemical weapons with Iranians. Thats proof enough.

are you an idiot? proof enough for what? to wait 15+ years to go into Iraq? Why wasnt this done during the first Gulf War? Why have numerous weapons inspectors, both European and American quit over this issue? Prove that Saddam knew where that one shell containing Sarin was.

I think that if a country was able to produce chem. weapons 15 years ago, it does mean that they have a capability to produce chem. weapons 15 years later, don't you agree? Plus 15 years ago we lived in a different world.

no i dont agree because your logic suggests that time exists in a vaccum and that nothing changed or occurred during those 15 years. And if Iraq was producing them, where are the tons of chemicals and the places where they were produced?

[Romulus]

You sir are a dumb ass.....


because moron i kept the quotes taken since 911. Ya know, one of the real reasons this war occurred.


"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

hmmm 2002 was after 2001 on my calendar.

[One?]

Anyone could place a sarin gas bomb. They might place a bomb to blame iraq for WMD. :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

At least the al-Qaida connections stick
Thats funny I have not seen any recent evidence coming from the either the US or the UK governments backing up these claims. There had been a few off the cuff statements from Cheney about a connection before the war but no concrete body of proof so far.

[Secret Squirrel]

You sir are a dumb ass.....


because moron i kept the quotes taken since 911. Ya know, one of the real reasons this war occurred.


"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

hmmm 2002 was after 2001 on my calendar.

are you a complete idiot? lol Maybe i missed it, but were there French soldiers in Iraq? Oh my, could a quote from a french president, who didnt endorse this nut-job war, be pointless? Fact remains, bush lied his ass off based at least in part to intelligence from an exhiled Iraqi...the very same Iraqi who was on the U.S payroll (at least 30+ million) and who he now seeks to discredit.

[Secret Squirrel]

edited redundant post.

[Operation Ivy]

blah blah blah

[Romulus]

lol Maybe i missed it

Heh, Liberal selective memory.


Fact remains, bush lied his ass off based at least in part to intelligence from an exhiled Iraqi...

Got any solid proof that there are no WMD in Iraq? Thought so.

[Secret Squirrel]

lol Maybe i missed it

Heh, Liberal selective memory.


Fact remains, bush lied his ass off based at least in part to intelligence from an exhiled Iraqi...

Got any solid proof that there are no WMD in Iraq? Thought so.

I guess you havent mastered basic grammar yet. When i said i missed it, i was referring to the second part of that sentence (ie. the french certainly didnt jump at the chance to go into Iraq).
Why would i need to prove that there are no WMDs there? You have to prove something is true before you can begin to disprove it. Wheres the thousands of tons of chemicals and the places that produced them? Did they all just disappear magically into thin air? Wheres the manned and unmanned fleets that were suppose to carry these chemicals? man you really are stupid.

[Midtown]

ducimus19 is back?

[Romulus]

I guess you havent mastered basic grammar yet.

Well, I hope you don't think spelling lower case i's all over your drivel is correct grammar either.




(ie. the french certainly didnt jump at the chance to go into Iraq).


HMMMM... I wonder if that had anything to do with their envolvement in the Oil for Food scandel. Afraid of what might get uncovered?


Wheres the thousands of tons of chemicals and the places that produced them? Did they all just disappear magically into thin air?

Those will all be found in due course. Iraq is not the size of Rhode Island. It's a huge ****ing country. Even when we find the REST of the weapons I can bet we will hear the whole "US planted them there" bull****.


man you really are stupid.

Suck me sideways. :-*$

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

lol Maybe i missed it

Heh, Liberal selective memory.


Fact remains, bush lied his ass off based at least in part to intelligence from an exhiled Iraqi...

Got any solid proof that there are no WMD in Iraq? Thought so.

I guess you havent mastered basic grammar yet. When i said i missed it, i was referring to the second part of that sentence (ie. the french certainly didnt jump at the chance to go into Iraq).
Why would i need to prove that there are no WMDs there? You have to prove something is true before you can begin to disprove it. Wheres the thousands of tons of chemicals and the places that produced them? Did they all just disappear magically into thin air? Wheres the manned and unmanned fleets that were suppose to carry these chemicals? man you really are stupid.

Saddam had weapons, even his own scientist stated that he prided himself on his WMD and programs. He had more than a year to hide, disperse and even ship his stockpiles elsewhere. Of course he would get rid of them prior to the invasion, why would he want the war to be justified? It would play to his advantage that America would show up empty handed and possibly lose support at home and abroad. Just recently (of course you don't hear about it no more because of the liberal media) 20+ tons of VX and sarin gasses almost made it across the border of Syria, into Jordan. This would have been the largest terrorist chemical attack ever! Syria does not have the capability to produce mass amounts of either agent. Must have magically appeared. :cantbeli:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Just recently (of course you don't hear about it no more because of the liberal media) 20+ tons of VX and sarin gasses almost made it across the border of Syria, into Jordan. This would have been the largest terrorist chemical attack ever! Syria does not have the capability to produce mass amounts of either agent. Must have magically appeared. :cantbeli:
Sure there are, just post a credible link to help us believe you.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Just recently (of course you don't hear about it no more because of the liberal media) 20+ tons of VX and sarin gasses almost made it across the border of Syria, into Jordan. This would have been the largest terrorist chemical attack ever! Syria does not have the capability to produce mass amounts of either agent. Must have magically appeared. :cantbeli:
Sure there are, just post a credible link to help us believe you.

This is only two, I'll find several more here in a bit, that are much more specific, but I have some things to do at the moment.

http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?itemID=455342&extID=10032&oliID=213

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661495.stm

[Sayeret]

Secret Squirrel wrote:


are you an idiot? proof enough for what? to wait 15+ years to go into Iraq? Why wasnt this done during the first Gulf War? Why have numerous weapons inspectors, both European and American quit over this issue? Prove that Saddam knew where that one shell containing Sarin was.

Saddam used WMDs on the Iranians and Kurds. Do you seriously believe Saddam Hussein would get rid of his WMDs considering that it made his country significantly more powerful than one of his enemies, Iran. Why would Saddam destroy all of his weapons which he had hundreds of people work on for years and years because the UN tells him to? Why didn't Saddam allow UN inspectors into his country when they first asked? Saddam Hussein was trying to even get an atomic bomb in the 1980s, there is no doubt in my mind that the WMDs still exist.

[Secret Squirrel]

I guess you havent mastered basic grammar yet.

Well, I hope you don't think spelling lower case i's all over your drivel is correct grammar either.




(ie. the french certainly didnt jump at the chance to go into Iraq).


HMMMM... I wonder if that had anything to do with their envolvement in the Oil for Food scandel. Afraid of what might get uncovered?


Wheres the thousands of tons of chemicals and the places that produced them? Did they all just disappear magically into thin air?

Those will all be found in due course. Iraq is not the size of Rhode Island. It's a huge f*** country. Even when we find the REST of the weapons I can bet we will hear the whole "US planted them there" bull****.


man you really are stupid.

Suck me sideways. :-*$

Sorry, I'm straight so you'll have to find some other guy to "suck you sideways." So no tons of chemicals even though Iraq was under close sat. watchdogs...lets see what about the unmanned and manned fleets? Surely those would be easy to find and secure. Swallow your pride and accept the fact that, amongst other factors, a couple of Iraqis in exhile played Bush and the U.S for fools to get rid of Saddam. It's a shame that more good people have died and will die due to another lapse in intelligence.

[Secret Squirrel]

Just recently (of course you don't hear about it no more because of the liberal media) 20+ tons of VX and sarin gasses almost made it across the border of Syria, into Jordan. This would have been the largest terrorist chemical attack ever! Syria does not have the capability to produce mass amounts of either agent. Must have magically appeared. :cantbeli:
Sure there are, just post a credible link to help us believe you.

This is only two, I'll find several more here in a bit, that are much more specific, but I have some things to do at the moment.

http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?itemID=455342&extID=10032&oliID=213

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661495.stm

I think I missed the part in your links where it stated that the chemicals came from Iraq. Maybe you could point it out?

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Obviously if a clear link between the attempted Jordan attack, and Iraqs WMD had been established, everyone would know. This even raises serious questions, though, about the possibilities of what happened to the weapons. It's just my personal opinion that the weapons were trucked to Syria and hidden. Maybe not all of them, but I believe a good majority of them were.

[Secret Squirrel]

Obviously if a clear link between the attempted Jordan attack, and Iraqs WMD had been established, everyone would know. This even raises serious questions, though, about the possibilities of what happened to the weapons. It's just my personal opinion that the weapons were trucked to Syria and hidden. Maybe not all of them, but I believe a good majority of them were.

wouldnt that have caused a lot of activity (ie. sat. images?)? You think Syria would risk hiding Saddam's supposed WMDs with an invasion pending and with a large U.S force next door? I wish for once Bush would just come out and blatantly tell everyone why he went into Iraq. I'd be more willing to wager that his reasons, among others, stem from his father's work, his desire to leave a legacy, and to have a forward and centrally located base at the forefront for the war on terror.

[Romulus]

I'd be more willing to wager that his reasons, among others, stem from his father's work, his desire to leave a legacy, and to have a forward and centrally located base at the forefront for the war on terror.

Guess this was Clinton's so called legacy too.

The United States has been attempting to change Iraq’s regime since the 1991 Persian Gulf war, although achieving this goal was not declared policy until 1998. In November 1998, amid a crisis with Iraq over U.N. weapons of mass destruction (WMD) inspections, the Clinton Administration stated that the United States would seek to go beyond containment to promoting a change of regime. A regime change policy was endorsed by the Iraq Liberation Act (P.L. 105-338, October 31, 1998).

[Secret Squirrel]

I'd be more willing to wager that his reasons, among others, stem from his father's work, his desire to leave a legacy, and to have a forward and centrally located base at the forefront for the war on terror.

Guess this was Clinton's so called legacy too.

The United States has been attempting to change Iraq’s regime since the 1991 Persian Gulf war, although achieving this goal was not declared policy until 1998. In November 1998, amid a crisis with Iraq over U.N. weapons of mass destruction (WMD) inspections, the Clinton Administration stated that the United States would seek to go beyond containment to promoting a change of regime. A regime change policy was endorsed by the Iraq Liberation Act (P.L. 105-338, October 31, 1998).

hrm I dont seem to recall Clinton invading Iraq... :slap:

[Romulus]

hrm I dont seem to recall Clinton invading Iraq..

Man you just don't get it do you?


"BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 17 1998 — U.S. warships launched more than 200 cruise missile at Iraqi targets early Thursday morning, Pentagon officials told NBC News, as the the United States and Britain began an air campaign meant to punish Baghdad for its defiance of United Nations disarmament agreements. Shortly afterward, President Bill Clinton said he had acted only after exhausting all other options "for the safety of people everywhere."

"PRESIDENT CLINTON, in a speech televised worldwide, said his attack order came with the unanimous support of his national security advisers. Having called off similar air strikes at the last moment last month, said Iraq had he had ordered a "strong, sustained series of air strikes. 'Iraq has abused its final chance,' Clinton said. "

[Secret Squirrel]

hrm I dont seem to recall Clinton invading Iraq..

Man you just don't get it do you?


"BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 17 1998 — U.S. warships launched more than 200 cruise missile at Iraqi targets early Thursday morning, Pentagon officials told NBC News, as the the United States and Britain began an air campaign meant to punish Baghdad for its defiance of United Nations disarmament agreements. Shortly afterward, President Bill Clinton said he had acted only after exhausting all other options "for the safety of people everywhere."

"PRESIDENT CLINTON, in a speech televised worldwide, said his attack order came with the unanimous support of his national security advisers. Having called off similar air strikes at the last moment last month, said Iraq had he had ordered a "strong, sustained series of air strikes. 'Iraq has abused its final chance,' Clinton said. "

whats to get? you said it was also part of Clinton's legacy to change Iraq's regime...as even you should be able to grasp, such an undertaking would involve an invasion and occupation.

[OB Kenobi]

Surprise, surprise...

An artillery shell containing the deadly nerve agent sarin, found in the remains of a roadside bomb in Iraq, was made before the 1991 Gulf War, a senior military official said Wednesday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121035,00.html

[Combat Wombat]

Just because it was from the Iran Iraq war does not make it any less deadly or effective. Besides thats the point of a stockpile. You build something now and then you have it for later.

[Romulus]

Surprise, surprise...

An artillery shell containing the deadly nerve agent sarin, found in the remains of a roadside bomb in Iraq, was made before the 1991 Gulf War, a senior military official said Wednesday.


Suprise, Suprise......

They weren't suppose to have this after the gulf war.
;)

[Secret Squirrel]

Surprise, surprise...

An artillery shell containing the deadly nerve agent sarin, found in the remains of a roadside bomb in Iraq, was made before the 1991 Gulf War, a senior military official said Wednesday.


Suprise, Suprise......

They weren't suppose to have this after the gulf war.
;)

show me some proof that saddam knew it was there. If i'm not mistaken, theres still tons of landmines scattered over the world which are illegal. Should the U.S invade those countries too?

"Saddam's alleged stockpile of weapons of mass destruction was the Bush administration's chief stated reason for invading Iraq, but U.S. weapons hunters have been unable to validate the prewar intelligence that described those stockpiles."<--wow one shell from from before 1991. Ask yourself this, has that one shell been worth over 900 (800+ American) coalition lives?

[OB Kenobi]

Surprise, surprise...

An artillery shell containing the deadly nerve agent sarin, found in the remains of a roadside bomb in Iraq, was made before the 1991 Gulf War, a senior military official said Wednesday.


Suprise, Suprise......

They weren't suppose to have this after the gulf war.
;)

Well, if I remember correctly, Saddam was in the process of getting rid of the last of his "illegal" weapons, which was being supervised by UN inspectors. But this wasn't what Bush wanted, if Saddam was cooperating, he'd never get a chance to invade. So Bush forcibly withdrew the UN inspectors despite protests from the UN and just about everyone, he didn't let the inspectors finish doing their job. Remember the whole "imminent threat" thing?

So if some WMD has been left over somewhere in Iraq, you only have Bush to blame for it.

Saddam's trial is certainly going to be interesting...