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View Full Version : Sinking One Carrier to Save the Rest



Midav
05-25-2004, 06:17 PM
NAVAL AVIATION: Sinking One Carrier to Save the Rest



May 25, 2004: It is rumored that the navy is considering using one of its decommissioned Forrestal class aircraft carriers for a test of how well a large carrier can withstand modern anti-ship weapons. The four Forrestal class carriers, built in the early 1950s, were the first “super carriers.” Displacing 82,000 tons and 1040 feet long, they were built to handle large jet aircraft. All were removed from active service by the late 90s and put in reserve. One could be used for a “destruction test” that would remove some of the unknowns about what effect modern anti-ship weapons would have on a large carrier. This is important at the moment because the navy is in the midst of designing it’s next generation of carriers (the CVN-21 class).

Russia built several types of large antiship missiles specifically for knocking out American carriers. The main ones are the Sunburns and Shipwrecks. China has bought dozens of the Sunburn missiles, and the United States has a few as well, purchased for use as realistic targets for American anti-aircraft weapons. China also has some of the older Shipwreck missiles.

The SSN-22 Sunburn can be launched from aircraft or ships. It’s a four ton missile with a 700 pound warhead. But what really makes it destructive is its high speed. The missile approaches its target at Mach 2.5 (about 750 meters a second, faster than a rifle bullet). It’s thought that the damage done by the explosive warhead would be secondary to the destruction created as a 2-3 ton object (the missile, less fuel already used up) hits the carrier at that speed. The SSN-19 Shipwreck is a seven ton missile, with a 1,600 pound warhead, launched from submarines and ships. It is a decade older than the Sunburn, and hits targets at about 600 meters a second.

For decades, the U.S. Navy has estimated how they would deal with carriers getting hit by these missiles. But naval historians have pointed out that wartime experience is often quite different from these peacetime estimates. This was experienced during World War II, and as recently as 1982, when Argentina used missiles against British warships off the Falkland Islands. The damage these missiles did was not exactly what was expected and Britain, and many other navies, changed the design of their warships, and their damage control procedures, as a result.

If one of the Forrestals is sacrificed in a test, it will have to be done carefully. There won’t be anyone on board the ship when the missiles hit, and all data will have to be collected by hundreds of sensors mounted all over the ship and transmitting data constantly. Since the missiles will hit above the waterline, it’s also possible to put a number of torpedoes into the same ship to see how many it takes to sink it. Information obtained from the actual effects of these torpedoes and large missiles actually hitting a carrier would provide invaluable information for making existing carriers, and new designs, more resistant to battle damage.


http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/howtomakewar/default.asp?target=HTNAVAI.HTM

If that happenes, I would love to see the footage!!

kinghk
05-25-2004, 06:30 PM
If that happenes, I would love to see the footage!!

Word.

Abolith
05-25-2004, 06:48 PM
the navy could some cash on the side by letting people see it live :D

kinghk
05-25-2004, 06:51 PM
the navy could some cash on the side by letting people see it live :D

A nice oppurtunity to start up a pay-per-view service.

Midav
05-26-2004, 12:10 PM
Hell yeah!

Roger Rabbit
05-26-2004, 12:38 PM
Depends what they are gonna chuck at it but they probably could either make a TV documentary or a DVD.

Mr Gently Benevolent
05-26-2004, 12:42 PM
I wonder how one of these ships will hold up after a salvo of 650mm torpedoes has detonated under the keel.

LordHalbert
05-26-2004, 12:50 PM
Now I know where to put some of the hard core Iraqi rebel scums !!!

2Sheds_Jackson
05-26-2004, 12:53 PM
A golden opportunity for the next reality TV show

Survivor; Sinking Carrier

mattnwnc03
05-26-2004, 11:13 PM
get vince mcmahon of the wwe to produce it.

Midav
05-26-2004, 11:54 PM
A golden opportunity for the next reality TV show

Survivor; Sinking Carrier

rofl rofl rofl

Oh man, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time!

"Will anyone make it to the lifeboats in time? Stay tuned."

Mark Sman
05-27-2004, 12:13 AM
If they do this (which is the best idea the navy has had in years) they should combine it with real world testing of defensive systems.

Like keep shooting until a missle gets through the Aegis screen and whatever else you've got. Point-defense weaponry?

What a freaking cool test.

springwheat
05-27-2004, 12:41 AM
Operation Crossroads, take two.

Burncycle
05-27-2004, 02:19 AM
If they do this (which is the best idea the navy has had in years) they should combine it with real world testing of defensive systems.

Like keep shooting until a missle gets through the Aegis screen and whatever else you've got. Point-defense weaponry?

This is not practical.

They just want to see how much a carrier can take if it DOES get it, not whether or not a missile will ever get through.

Furthermore, this test can only determine how much a carrier can take with it's sheer bulk/mass alone, and no outside factors like damage control parties, which will certainly be available on active carriers. Damage control parties can make all the difference.

Will the carrier be "combat loaded" with aviation fuel, ordinance, and aircraft both on deck and below deck? I very seriously doubt it, but that too can make a big difference.

If it takes 4 missiles to over-come the sheer mass of this empty ship and send it to the bottom, it doesn't nessesarily mean 4 missiles will sink an active carrier. It may take more (because of where they hit, and damage control parties) or it may even take less (because of the presence of ordinance and fuel).

Needless to say, one strike would probably mission kill an active carrier (it certainly won't be staying on station after taking a missile strike, even a minor one, and it shouldn't)

Regardless, it would be pretty neat to see.

Vintendo
05-27-2004, 10:21 AM
they should load the carrier with bombs and jet fuel for added realism.

OldRecon
05-27-2004, 10:36 AM
With the ban on athmospheric nuclear explosives tests, the ultimate test of Carrier passive defence systems unfortunately is off limits.
Understand some of the Soviet era cruise missiles designed for attacking carrier groups were nuclear tipped?

2Sheds_Jackson
05-27-2004, 11:28 AM
With the ban on athmospheric nuclear explosives tests, the ultimate test of Carrier passive defence systems unfortunately is off limits.
Understand some of the Soviet era cruise missiles designed for attacking carrier groups were nuclear tipped?

Not sure, but probably so. Hell, we had nuclear air-to-air missiles for knocking down planes. The US even tested a nuclear powered "jet" engine (air cooled reactor).

I do think if they test this, they should load the carrier up some - otherwise, what's the point? Damage control parties would surely affect the carrier's ability to stay afloat, but this would test the extent of the initial damage. They can probably simulate the defensive systems eslewhere - no need to muddy the water (pardon the pun) on this test.