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Bongopete
03-07-2008, 05:35 PM
In todays LA Daily News;

Anti-war judge rejects foster teen's bid to join military
By Dana Bartholomew, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/07/2008 07:16:45 AM PST



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SIMI VALLEY - Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.
But last fall, a Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner dashed the foster teen's hopes of early enlistment for Marine sniper duty, plus a potential $10,000 signing bonus.
In denying the Royal High School student delayed entry into the Marine Corps, Children's Court Commissioner Marilyn Mackel reportedly told Sage and a recruiter that she didn't approve of the Iraq war, didn't trust recruiters and didn't support the military.
"The judge said she didn't support the Iraq war for any reason why we're over there," said Marine recruiter Sgt. Guillermo Medrano of the Simi Valley USMC recruiting office.
"She just said all recruiters were the same - that they `all tap dance and tell me what I want to hear.' She said she didn't want him to fight in it."
Sage, 17, said he begged for Mackel's permission.
"Foster children shouldn't be denied (an) ability to enlist in the service just because they're foster kids," he said. "Foster kids shouldn't have to go to court to gain approval to serve one's country."
Mackel, a juvenile dependency commissioner at the Children's Court in Monterey Park, declined through a clerk to speak about any court case or comments she may have made in court. Transcripts of juvenile court hearings require a special release from a judge. Court officials said a transcript of the Sage hearing, if released, would not be available for a week or more.

After Sage submitted a winning entry to the lawmaker's Write a Bill Challenge, Assemblyman Cameron Smyth introduced legislation last month that would allow foster teens to enlist in the service without express permission from a judge.
Instead, AB2238 would allow foster children 17 or older to sign up with the consent of a foster parent or social worker.
"Here is one impressive young man who somehow made it through the challenge of the foster system, had a clear sense of a career path and was denied that opportunity by a judge basically because of her personal bias," said Smyth, R-Santa Clarita, who will honor Sage today at a Royal High assembly.
"I find that to be a horrific abuse of her power."
It was Oct. 12 when Medrano, in crisp dress blues, appeared with Sage before the commissioner to petition for his early enlistment.
The USMC Delayed Entry Program, like those in other services, allows high school seniors to enlist in the service up to a year before starting boot camp.
Recruiters encourage students to hone their study skills, learn to eat right and become fit enough to don a uniform.
By "DEPing in," students can enlist at 17, get their high school diploma, then lock in a military job such as Force Recon - or scout snipers. They also qualify for a signing bonus.
"We just gave out the last one for recon today to another kid for $10,000," USMC Master Sgt. Edgar Carpenter of the Marine Recruiting Office in Simi Valley said Wednesday.
"The Delayed Entry Program supports everything a parent would try to do: We make them stay out of trouble; get them in physical condition; and get them indoctrinated into the Marine Corps culture."
Only Mackel - and it appears a court bailiff as well - objected to the program, despite pleas from Sage and Medrano.
"I tried. I said, `Please.' I begged. He tried, he said, `Please' and begged," Sage said. "But she refused."
Mackel said she denied delayed enlistment to an eager Navy recruit as well, Medrano said.
She expressed concern that recruiters treat recruits "like another warm body," he said. "She said, `All you care about is your numbers."'
At this point, the 10-year Marine said the court bailiff raised his hand and addressed the young Sage.
"My son's in the Army," he said. "He did the Delayed Entry Program. They don't care about you. They're just there for the numbers.
"I said, `No, I'm not them," Medrano said. "I care about Shawn (and) about every single person I put into the Marine Corps. I follow them. I take care of my kids. I treat them like my Marines.
"It just felt like, wow. I even told Shawn, I said, `Dude, it feels like we've been burned at the stake at the Salem witch trial.' She just had some kind of animosity toward military personnel."
Early this year, Berkeley city officials drew national fire for calling Marine Corps recruiters "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" while granting free parking for anti-war protesters. Lawmakers in Sacramento and Washington pushed bills to deny millions in funds to city coffers.
Sage, who lives in Simi Valley but is originally from Florida, was abandoned by both parents when he was 2 and now lives in a foster home with his brother.
He had wanted to join the military ever since he'd met a service rep at school at age 7 - first the Air Force, then the Navy, finally the Marines.
His foster parents, as well as his social worker, supported his decision to enlist early. Despite being denied, he still shows up for USMC physical training.
"Did they ever kick my butt," he said proudly. "They still do."
When he graduates and turns 18 in June, it'll be all Semper Fi, bonus or no signing bonus, whether he's allowed early deployment or not.
As winner of Smyth's "there oughta be a law" contest, he will be flown to Sacramento to testify before the Assembly. "I didn't do it for the signing bonus, because I'm a motivated kid," he said. "I am hoping to join the military before I graduate. I want to serve my country."

-nice to know we have impartial judges sitting on cases.

Invisigoth
03-07-2008, 06:14 PM
'Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.'

Maybe the judge was mildly worried about his judgement? O.o

Hippo
03-07-2008, 06:18 PM
that article left a foul taste in my mouth

California Joe
03-07-2008, 06:33 PM
What Invisigoth said. If watching FMJ makes someone desperate to join the Marines a little bit of maturing may be in order....

Albatross
03-07-2008, 06:41 PM
My biggest problem with this is the fact that the judge advised in a courtroom that she doesn't support the military. Get bent b!tch. Our men and women keep you safe, so burn in hell.

Firetxmi
03-07-2008, 06:55 PM
My biggest problem with this is the fact that the judge advised in a courtroom that she doesn't support the military. Get bent b!tch. Our men and women keep you safe, so burn in hell.

The article didn't actually say that. It said that a Marine recruiter SAID that she said that she didn't support the military.

I guess I will reserve judgment until I see the transcripts and not third person accounts.

Albatross
03-07-2008, 06:57 PM
The article didn't actually say that. It said that a Marine recruiter SAID that she said that she didn't support the military.

I guess I will reserve judgment until I see the transcripts and not third person accounts.

You will have to excuse me for believing someone other than a lawyer, no offense to our mp.net legal squad.

3rdMillhouse
03-07-2008, 06:57 PM
'Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.'

Maybe the judge was mildly worried about his judgement? O.o

Yeah, I would be.

vinny_121_ND
03-07-2008, 07:23 PM
This teen needs to do a little bit more research before joining the marines because of fmj. Does he know anything about stop loss? A lot of people join the military for the wrong reasons.

Mofreaka
03-07-2008, 07:27 PM
He may have just cited that (FMJ) as an example of his decision, and the media emphasized it. It's been known to happen before.

Or he could just be a tool, i don't know.

Midav
03-07-2008, 07:42 PM
IMO, if the judge were worried about him being influenced by FMJ, she would have expressed that. She should have gone about it in a different manner. Maybe she did and we can read that should the transcripts be released.

But, to me it sounds like she has a biased opinion against the military and doesn't look at it in a balanced way:


Mackel said she denied delayed enlistment to an eager Navy recruit as well, Medrano said.
She expressed concern that recruiters treat recruits "like another warm body," he said. "She said, `All you care about is your numbers."'

She may be a judge but doesn't mean she's perfect. Far from it...

NavyTimes
03-07-2008, 07:53 PM
That kid got lots av time to enlist later.

vinny_121_ND
03-07-2008, 07:56 PM
That kid got lots av time to enlist later.

plenty of time. Marine boot camp is not easy.

LaoSexMachine
03-07-2008, 10:09 PM
Judge did the right thing. Don't need a kid who lives in a fantasy world to join the Corps.

Wolfmanjack
03-07-2008, 10:23 PM
Judge did the right thing. Don't need a kid who lives in a fantasy world to join the Corps.

We all live in our own version of a fantasy world, Going in because of watching FMJ isn't as bad as a reason as some. Some go into the military expressly to be able to kill someone. etc..

There are many different reasons why people go into the military, Some of those reasons though if they are not identified and channeled properly during training can lead to major problems.

As for the Judge.. Sounds like she is one ignorant woman. I say sounds because the information we are getting here is all second hand or even third hand. Ie .. My cousin's girlfriends mothers brother said etc.. :P

I say we wait and see if there are other reasons why the Judge made the decision she did. The kid might have some issue's that are not being presented.

LaoSexMachine
03-07-2008, 10:49 PM
We all live in our own version of a fantasy world, Going in because of watching FMJ isn't as bad as a reason as some. Some go into the military expressly to be able to kill someone. etc..

There are many different reasons why people go into the military, Some of those reasons though if they are not identified and channeled properly during training can lead to major problems.

As for the Judge.. Sounds like she is one ignorant woman. I say sounds because the information we are getting here is all second hand or even third hand. Ie .. My cousin's girlfriends mothers brother said etc.. :P

I say we wait and see if there are other reasons why the Judge made the decision she did. The kid might have some issue's that are not being presented.

People who think movies are reality shouldn't be let into the service. IMHO.

Cipher
03-07-2008, 11:04 PM
People who think movies are reality shouldn't be let into the service. IMHO.
Those are the ones crying at basic.

LaoSexMachine
03-07-2008, 11:06 PM
Those are the ones crying at basic.

Exactly. They get the taste of the real thing and all you hear is " I didn't signed up for this. I thought it was different".

Midav
03-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Why are so many people basing their posts that he used FMJ to join the military? It says he wanted to join since he was a little kid.

However, that is not the point. If people would read the whole thing, they'd understand this is about a judge who has a biased agenda. I think that's a lil more dangerous, if one wills, than a kid wanting to live out a dream...

WKD
03-08-2008, 12:58 AM
Oh well, doesn't this just mean he has to wait a couple more months before he joins? Time always seems longer when you're young I guess.

Ordie
03-08-2008, 03:47 AM
The judge was correct in absence of parental consent. The teen should should take the time to educate and prepare himself. Perhaps he should consider going through Devilpups summer camp before joining the Marines.

Calanen
03-08-2008, 06:26 AM
Judge did the right thing. Don't need a kid who lives in a fantasy world to join the Corps.

Maybe, but for the wrong reasons.

If the judge had said, going into the military is a good thing, but I dont think you are ready yet - that's fine. But going into a rant about the decisions of the Executive - is nothing that a judge should *ever* do. This judge needs to borrow a library book on 'Separation of Powers 101'

MJC9678
03-08-2008, 09:25 AM
A little digging on this judge turns up that she was a Clinton appointee, is a strong supporter of the ACLU, and is a self described "black activist" (what ever that means...)

When you put the whole picture together, it does not smell very good.

California Joe
03-08-2008, 09:37 AM
Yeah, she sounds like a huge asshole, but it won't kill the kid to wait a little bit longer. Life isn't fair.

Firetxmi
03-08-2008, 10:31 AM
Maybe, but for the wrong reasons.

If the judge had said, going into the military is a good thing, but I dont think you are ready yet - that's fine. But going into a rant about the decisions of the Executive - is nothing that a judge should *ever* do. This judge needs to borrow a library book on 'Separation of Powers 101'

But wouldn't you agree that the article is heresay at best? "He said she said the she...."

I agree with CJ's comment. Life isn't fair and you don't get everything at the moment you want it. A good lesson for all kids these days!

Calanen
03-09-2008, 05:31 AM
But wouldn't you agree that the article is heresay at best? "He said she said the she...."

All written articles are heresay. You can either believe the news or not. The reporters were there, and were likely to have gotten the story reasonably accurate.