Al-Jazeera apologizes over 'Barbarian Muslims' remark

[Snoshi]

Syrian-American psychologist's unprecedented attack on Islam stirs row in Arab world. Qatari satellite network rushes to apologize, cancel reruns

Qatari satellite network al-Jazeera was busy this week trying to calm the row sparked in the Arab world following remarks made on one of its program against Islam.

"The al-Jazeera network deeply apologizes for the fact that one of its programs' participants degraded Islam and the monotheistic faiths on her own initiative. The channel extends its apology to all its viewers for the offensive remarks and has canceled both reruns of the program," the network said in a statement.

The unusual apology came following a debate on the talk show "The Opposite Direction" – one of the station's flagship programs, which has stirred many rows in the past with harsh criticism against the Arab regimes.

This time the program hosted Wafa Sultan, a Syrian psychologist living in the United States. On the agenda were several explosive components: The Muhammad cartoons in Denmark, Israel's operations in the Gaza Strip, the Holocaust and especially Islam.

Here is what Sultan said: "All the religions and faiths have been subject throughout history to criticism and insults, and this helped to develop and amend them over time. The only faith which beheads those who oppose it – is destined to turn into terror and tyranny.

"This is the situation of Islam from its beginning to this day. It has sentenced its critics to prison terms, and those who escaped custody were killed. The Danish cartoons have managed to drop the first brick in the wall and open a window, through which the sun rays will be able to enter after a long period of darkness."

She went on to say that "the Danish newspaper implemented its right for freedom of expression. The freedoms are the holy of holies in the West, and there is nothing which supersedes them.

"And I say, if Islam was not what it is, these cartoons would not appear. They did not come from an empty space, and the cartoonist did not make them up from his sick mind. They were an expression of what he is familiar with."

Describing the illustrations, Sultan continued, "The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Sent by Zionist intelligence?

Tala’at Ramih, an Egyptian Islamic writer and researcher, who clashed with Sultan on the program, responded with astonishment: "God forbid! These are all one hundred percent lies. It appears that the American and Zionist intelligence have already begun creating people hostile to their nation in this way."

The program's host, Faisal al-Qasim, asked her, "Why is the freedom of expression in the West holy only when it comes to humiliating Muslims? Can they talk about the Holocaust? Can they talk about Christianity? Cinemas have been torched in the West for talking about Christianity."

Sultan fought back: "I live in America and I never heard of one cinema being torched here. Where do you get these reports from? You should criticize your beliefs in the same way the Christians criticize their beliefs."

The debate quickly moved to the events in Gaza, which have already been compared to a holocaust in the Arab world.

"When a person detonates himself he becomes a terrorist, but when a people and an entire state are destroyed it's human?" the host asked.

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that?

"If you want to change things, you must reexamine your terror studies; honor the other's right to live; preach love, peace and coexistence to your children. When you do that, the world will respect you, see you differently and portray you differently."

Later in the debate, Sultan condemned both the Palestinians and the Israelis "in the same way" and complained about Hamas' choices. She spurned the Holocaust denial in Europe.

The popular television program caused great anger against al-Jazeera, which was expressed in other media outlets.

"It sparked a new scandal by hosting Sultan, who is known for her hostility towards Islam and the Muslims. She cursed the divine religion, attacked the Koran and scorned the prophet's honorable way," the London-based Arabic-language newspaper al-Jazeera wrote.

"Al-Jazeera's silence is unforgivable," a Jordanian newspaper wrote. "This network leads the normalization campaign with the Zionist enemy and is the only one which hosts the official spokespersons of the enemy's army and government."

Al-Jazeera chose to apologize, and according to one report, even warned the host not to let Sultan take part in the program again. But this might not be enough.

"This apology is weak, lacking and unacceptable, and does not compare to the level of harm which appeared on the screen," a special committee declared, demanding that the Qatari network publish a clearer apology and devote an entire program to discuss this issue.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3516759,00.html

[Tokamak]

"The only faith which beheads those who oppose it – is destined to turn into terror and tyranny".

"The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Quoted for truth. I was pretty disgusting to see those guys shouting behead those who insult Islam in London!!!.

[9mmRifle]

Freedom of speech, you take the good with the bad - that's it
and those who protest freedom of speech by lobbing off heads are barbaric terrorists.
Respect for this Syrian-American for speaking her mind, but I'm sure some extremists are already planning a Fatwa style hit on those who believe in freedom of speech.

[martinexsquaddie]

iislam is a religion of peace
anybody says diffrent I'll kill them

[Player]

Wafa Sultan is one courageous woman. May God bless her (though I'm sure he did already)

[el borracho]

MEMRI TV has the footage of the interviews with this woman. Her perseverance and demeanor under pressure are very admirable. She basically tells it like it is to her opponents, knowing full well the expected reaction from an extremist viewer could cost her her life.

Edit: here is the interview. It's in Arabic but has English subtitles.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1704.htm

Other interviews with Sultan:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1050.htm

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/783.htm

[Tempest]

MEMRI TV has the footage of the interviews with this woman. Her perseverance and demeanor under pressure are very admirable. She basically tells it like it is to her opponents, knowing full well the expected reaction from an extremist viewer could cost her her life.

Saw that memorable memri clip too. Those aljazeera producers should have seen this coming... perhaps they got more than they bargained for

[gaijinsamurai]

My utmost respect to Ms. Sultan.

[Hollis]

My utmost respect to Ms. Sultan.


I too admire the women speaking out. I would also like to remind people, that with nearly billion or so Muslim's in the world it is not a monolithic group. The only thing a person can say about all Muslims, is that they are Muslims. Let's not flame all Muslims for those still stuck in the violent past.

[Firetxmi]

I too admire the women speaking out. I would also like to remind people, that with nearly billion or so Muslim's in the world it is not a monolithic group. The only thing a person can say about all Muslims, is that they are Muslims. Let's not flame all Muslims for those still stuck in the violent past.

Thank you for reiterating this important point Hollis!

[The Balkan]

Everything was great up untill these comments...

Describing the illustrations, Sultan continued, "The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that?

This is just pure ignorance.

Insted of talking about the idiots who became violent over a cartoon, she inuslts a billion people. Then supports the killing.

Her irrational Islamophobia is disgustingly obvious.

[el borracho]

I don't consider it "irrational," but being an Arab, she knows the way to argue with her pro-Muslim opponents is to fight fire with fire. When Christian or Western spokesmen try to argue about Islam, Muslims brush off their points as invalid since they are non-believers or don't understand the Arab/Muslim mindset.

I don't know her background, but she may have an axe to grind with Islam in general. Being Arab, she may be against the pro-Islamic fervor that grips the region and casts her people in such a bad light. Also, there is the media angle. She is well known in the Middle East for her views, so Al-Jazeera has her on knowing full well what she will probably say. This is not unlike when Bill O'Reilly brings the most far-left, Berkeley grad, Code Pink member on his show only to point at them and say "see how the left is!"

There is nothing wrong with Islam as a religion, but you can't doubt that in the last few decades it has been twisted by zealots and used to fan the flames of religious extremism and a sort of Arab/Persian-nationalist surge in the region.

[Snoshi]

Everything was great up untill these comments...

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that?

This is just pure ignorance.

Insted of talking about the idiots who became violent over a cartoon, she inuslts a billion people. Then supports the killing.

Her irrational Islamophobia is disgustingly obvious.
Whats wrong with her comments? Have you seen Hamas TV or their speeches? They all want to become martyrs for Islam, so why are they unhappy when they are getting killed?

[Johnny_H02]

Her irrational Islamophobia is disgustingly obvious.


Well one could argue that Islamophobia isn't as bad a term as it is made out to be. That being said I am no judge of people as a group, the people who practice Islam get no such criticism or judgment from me.

But keep in mind, the term Islamophobia strictly speaks in regards to people being scared of Islam the religion, I don't see being afraid or weary of any set of religious beliefs as anything overly bad, the fact that "faith" is so immune to criticism even among Christian and Jews is disturbing.

It is when you start painting people ex: " All Arabic Muslims are...(insert judgment here" but if anyone were to say "I don't agree with the teachings of Islam, Christianity, Judaism in fact I am afraid of them because of (list examples )" then I don't see that as any different than criticism of anything else which we accept as true.

[Player]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI9Hmu-UIy8

[IDF_TANKER]

I too admire the women speaking out. I would also like to remind people, that with nearly billion or so Muslim's in the world it is not a monolithic group. The only thing a person can say about all Muslims, is that they are Muslims. Let's not flame all Muslims for those still stuck in the violent past.

Well, one could argue that this is exactly the point - she is not a Muslim, she is speaking from the position of a secular educated person.

[The Balkan]

Whats wrong with her comments? Have you seen Hamas TV or their speeches? They all want to become martyrs for Islam, so why are they unhappy when they are getting killed?

Did she says HAMAS is irrational creatures and etc. Or did she say "Muslims"?


how about this....

Take this quote and replace Muslim with Jew

"The Jew is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself"

Does that sound ok to you?

I agreed with her on everything except the bull**** where she generalizes and talks about people like the're monkeys.

[Hollis]

Well, one could argue that this is exactly the point - she is not a Muslim, she is speaking from the position of a secular educated person.


I know who she is, also she is not a foreigner or foreign to that culture.

In the same Time Magazine interview, Sultan conflictingly described herself as a Muslim who does not adhere to Islam: "I even don't believe in Islam, but I am a Muslim."

[seraosha]

Did she says HAMAS is irrational creatures and etc. Or did she say "Muslims"?


how about this....

Take this quote and replace Muslim with Jew

"The Jew is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself"

Does that sound ok to you?

I agreed with her on everything except the bull**** where she generalizes and talks about people like the're monkeys.

Hey man, if the Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, or any other religion acted like the Muslims do when confronted by others that don't agree with them and make fun of them, then yes, that would be a fair generalization...but until I see someone holding up a sign that says "Behead all those that insult Buddha", your antics don't convince me of anything. Next you will try to discredit the Holocaust, won't you? Isn't that the next step in the play-book?

[The Balkan]

Hey man, if the Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, or any other religion acted like the Muslims do when confronted by others that don't agree with them and make fun of them, then yes, that would be a fair generalization...but until I see someone holding up a sign that says "Behead all those that insult Buddha", your antics don't convince me of anything. Next you will try to discredit the Holocaust, won't you? Isn't that the next step in the play-book?

Wow. So I say "don't generalize a whole group of people cuz of the idiots", and from that I'm all of a sudden denying the Holocaust.

Wtf is wrong with you? What play-book? Way to profile once again. I don't even practise Islam or identify as a Muslim lmao. I hate all major religion.

And btw genius there is plenty of Christians doing dumb ****. People holding signs saying gay soldiers were killed by God and they're in hell.

The KKK is motivated by the Bible according to them. They burn CROSSES in case you haven't noticed.

How about the "Army of God" who been claimimg bombings for years. When the anthrax stuff was going on they send hundreds of letters with white powders to abortion clinics.

Eric Rudolph and "Christian Identity" who was against Jews, racial mixing, abortion and homo******ity. So they started boming places in the South.

In India there's Christian grups which regularly carried out attacks on other grups and the Indian government.


How about the Serb group Tsar Lazar, which is recognized as a terrorist organization and has like over 4,000 soldiers. Another Serb group "White Eagles" which wanted to clense Serbia of all things non Christian.



I could go on, alot of them can be read about on Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism There's plenty more all over the world.

But have you EVER, EVER heard anyone here talk about Christians like the majority of them are like that?

No. And here's why. The majority of North America and Western Europe is Christian, so when we see hristian wackos we go "what a maniac twisting religion". But when we see radicals of other religions we don't think of as our own, we just generalize the whole religion.

Maybe get some facts straight before you go off.

[Shadowstorm]

Their's always good & bad people in any religion and same with athiest too.

[The Balkan]

Their's always good & bad people in any religion and same with athiest too.


Thank you. Is that seriosly so hard to understand? I think I'm even getting infractions just for trying to get this point across from people who seem hell bent on proving otherwise.

[Lov3ll]

I could go on, alot of them can be read about on Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism There's plenty more all over the world.

But have you EVER, EVER heard anyone here talk about Christians like the majority of them are like that?

No. And here's why. The majority of North America and Western Europe is Christian, so when we see hristian wackos we go "what a maniac twisting religion". But when we see radicals of other religions we don't think of as our own, we just generalize the whole religion.

Maybe get some facts straight before you go off.

Or maybe it's because it's an extreme minority? Islamic terrorism has killed more people in 1 month than these terrorists have in the last 30 odd years

February 2008 Jihad Attacks:
174
Countries:
14
Religions:
5
Dead Bodies:
1318
Critically Injured:
1460

[The Balkan]

Or maybe it's because it's an extreme minority? Islamic terrorism has killed more people in 1 month than these terrorists have in the last 30 odd years

February 2008 Jihad Attacks:
174
Countries:
14
Religions:
5
Dead Bodies:
1318
Critically Injured:
1460



Yea, TODAY. It wasn't always like that. And don't even act like most Christians are in the same situation most Middle East Muslims are. Once again your point is what? Our of a billion muslims, the terrorists are still a tiny little group. But yes there is more of them then hristian terrorists.

[Templar@Large]

My utmost respect to Ms. Sultan.

Indeed,indeed !

[B Inman]

This lady talks common sense!

[Mu-Meson]

Yea, TODAY. It wasn't always like that. And don't even act like most Christians are in the same situation most Middle East Muslims are. Once again your point is what? Our of a billion muslims, the terrorists are still a tiny little group. But yes there is more of them then Christian terrorists.

Right, TODAY. And last month, and the month before that. And before that. And on and on for the last seven years in a significant way, and with origins way before that.
Your attempt at creating equivalence is laughable. Those nuts with their "god hates fags" posters consist of maybe a total of two dozen people. A small group of people who are ridiculed, criticized, and despised. Now compare that to the 9/11 hijackers who are heros, and martyrs. Poll after poll show really high levels of support for suicide bombings, terrorism, Al-Qaeda, and jihad in dozens of countries and you compare those millions of supporters to 24 nutjobs? Yeah, exactly the same.
10% of one billion is 100,000,000 people. Tiny, right... at least compared to 24/300,0000,000 (population of US).

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[markjh]

http://tinyurl.com/3d2fou
For a Religion of Peace, this doesnt really fit :?

[IraGlacialis]

In the same Time Magazine interview, Sultan conflictingly described herself as a Muslim who does not adhere to Islam: "I even don't believe in Islam, but I am a Muslim."
Wha...? :|
I have never heard of an ethnic Muslim. Arab yes, Muslim no.
It's like saying, "I am a Christian, but I don't believe in Christ."

The only group I have heard that is both a religious and ethnic is the Jews.

[The Balkan]

Right, TODAY. And last month, and the month before that. And before that. And on and on for the last seven years in a significant way, and with origins way before that.
Your attempt at creating equivalence is laughable. Those nuts with their "god hates fags" posters consist of maybe a total of two dozen people. A small group of people who are ridiculed, criticized, and despised. Now compare that to the 9/11 hijackers who are heros, and martyrs. Poll after poll show really high levels of support for suicide bombings, terrorism, Al-Qaeda, and jihad in dozens of countries and you compare those millions of supporters to 24 nutjobs? Yeah, exactly the same.
10% of one billion is 100,000,000 people. Tiny, right... at least compared to 24/300,0000,000 (population of US).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

By "today" I didn't mean litteraly THIS DAY TODAY lmao. More like "our time", the last decade or so.

And nice job ignoring all the armed Christian groups who bomb and kill and only mentiong the nutjobs with signs.

I'll say it one more time, and the last time, so scared prejudice people like you get it.

1. I acknowledge that radical Islam is a big problem in alot of places. I don't like any religion and am not religious in the least.

2. My point was that it's not fair to generalize a whole religion or race because of the actions of the minority. I agreed with everything this woman said except the part where she called Muslims "inferior creatures". If you dissagree with "don't generalize people" and you agree with "inferior creatures" then you are a radical yourself and possibly some sort of White/Christian supremist.

3. Everyone with half a brain knows the history of the Middle East plays a huge part in the reason radical Islam is so rampant, and that religion itself is nowhere near the only reason or the biggest, since there is plenty of places people co-exist fine. Like America and Canada. Maybe you forgot but Iraq got invaded and is in a war.

4. Someone who "supports" someone fighting or attacking the US by saying "they deserve it" or whatever, isn't a terrorist even if those who are attacking are. Those people saying things like that are allowed their opinion just like you. Thousands of their civilians die all the time, I seriosly doubt they're gonna cry over American ones.

5. Islam, Christianity and whatever other major religion isn't in itself evil and it doesn't commit terrorist acts. Idiotic people who use religion for their own agendas do.



By the link you posted, it's obvious you're somewhat of a maniac who hates the whole religion, since the sites purpose is to prove it's "bad".

You're like the neo-nazis who constantly show statistics of Black crime trying to prove something.

Stop getting your info from other people's twisted personal views on the net.

[Ulytau]

http://tinyurl.com/3d2fou
For a Religion of Peace, this doesnt really fit :?

I wish they wrote about who supported political religion aganist countries until 11 September..

I rememberin a country which was supportin some extremists and they were totally aganist Turkish Secular System also they had connection with PKK terror..

Gordon Brown did wises thing i ever seen he startin to call Al Qaida a terrorist organization which aganist Islam and Muslims..

Checked about site a lil and easy to see about his/her ideas too :)

I'll write more about this tomorrow gonna go sleep

See ya all :hug:

[Calanen]

Well one could argue that Islamophobia isn't as bad a term as it is made out to be. That being said I am no judge of people as a group, the people who practice Islam get no such criticism or judgment from me.


A phobia is supposed to be an irrational fear. I think its pretty rational to be afraid of people who drive planes into buildings, blow themselves up and behead people - and they justify doing this in the name of Islam. Misdirection is used to ignore this link, by saying, but there are many muslims who dont do xx.. That is correct, but as I have said before, you do not ignore a burning house because the rest of the street is not yet alight.

[dimasorokine]

Hey man, if the Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, or any other religion acted like the Muslims do when confronted by others that don't agree with them and make fun of them, then yes, that would be a fair generalization...but until I see someone holding up a sign that says "Behead all those that insult Buddha", your antics don't convince me of anything. Next you will try to discredit the Holocaust, won't you? Isn't that the next step in the play-book?

WTF!? Are you serious? there is so much wrong with your post I simply could not resist...

"Hey man, if the Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, or any other religion acted like the Muslims do when confronted by others that don't agree with them and make fun of them, then yes, that would be a fair generalization"

And how exactly do the Muslims act? Are Muslims one giant breathing organism that reacts in unity, or are these "creatures" individuals? The only thing that can be said about Muslims is that per capita they have more religious extremists than the other religion, but even that is highly debatable.

And BTW, how do the Muslims act when confronted by those who disagree with them? I've argued with many, I've even called their religeon stupid and gotten nothing but informative answers back...granted I have not done this in the middle of Kabul.

The way certain Muslims act has more to do with Nationalism, poverty and war than actually being Muslim. Go to any poor, war ravaged, violent region in the world and you'll find people acting exactly the same - they'll just have different excuses (money, politics, land, ethnicity etc.)

"Next you will try to discredit the Holocaust, won't you? Isn't that the next step in the play-book?"

WTF once again. All he did was illustrate the double standard most people on this forum have towards what ethnicity you can bash and be bigoted towards and what ethncity is out of bounds. You proved his point perfectly...

And next you're going to say "all Muslims should be burned to death and exterminated from this earth", because that’s what you're really thinking isn't it?

-Dima

[seraosha]

Well, no actually I don't think all Muslims should be "exterminated from this earth"...just the western apologists that pander their idiocy by proxy.

Nice try though.

Respond back with that link to that Extremist Buddhist group that is calling for the destruction of Israel, Death to America, and has "Behead all that insult Buddha" as a cute slogan. You have some kind of objective information to provide as a resource, right?

[dimasorokine]

And just who are you trying to call a "western apologists that pander their idiocy by proxy" ? ...

"Nice try though"

The only thing I was "trying" is to show you how wrong it is to label someone an anti-Semitic Holocaust denier without any grounds. I don't actually think you want all Muslims killed, I don't know you personally and for me to assume that would be STUPID.

"Respond back with that link to that Extremist Buddhist group that is calling for the destruction of Israel, Death to America, and has "Behead all that insult Buddha" as a cute slogan. You have some kind of objective information to provide as a resource, right?"

Why an extremist Buddhist group? And why does one have to hate Israel and America to be labeled a nut? What if you hate Russia, or maybe China for example - is that ok?

It seems to me that when you picture a Muslim in your head you see a crazy bearded ball of hairy violence and when you picture a Christian you see your elderly next door neighbor...What I'm saying to you is there are 1 Billion Muslims on this planet, and you are trying to compare the worst of the Muslims to the best of every other religion.

-Dima

[The Balkan]

Man there's just no arguing with people who are paralyzed with hate and fear. Small minded people.

[ren0312]

Wha...? :|
I have never heard of an ethnic Muslim. Arab yes, Muslim no.
It's like saying, "I am a Christian, but I don't believe in Christ."

The only group I have heard that is both a religious and ethnic is the Jews.

Technically there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim at all, you are either a Muslim or you are not. you just can not ignore some parts of the Koran that you disagree with, follow the parts that you agree and still claim you are a Muslim, that is unacceptable under Islam, so when you look at it this way, the only true Muslims are those who adhere to ALL of the teachings of the Koran, so the only true Muslims are fundamentalists, so by that definition probably a vast majority of self claimed moderates are apostates.

[el borracho]

Technically Christianity is the same way, but how many truly practice the religion as opposed to being "fairweather Christians?"

[Calanen]

Technically Christianity is the same way, but how many truly practice the religion as opposed to being "fairweather Christians?"

Not much 'jihad' called for in the Christian religion.

[SoftLion]

Technically Christianity is the same way, but how many truly practice the religion as opposed to being "fairweather Christians?"


Well spoken indeed

[Calanen]

The fact that so called 'radical muslims' kill in the name of islam, seem less radical, when so called moderate muslims support them for doing so:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125508
PA Daily: Mass Murderer is a Martyr


by Gil Ronen

(IsraelNN.com) Mahmoud Abbas's official Palestinian Authority daily newspaper has honored the terrorist who gunned down eight high school students at point blank range with the status of shahid, or holy Islamic martyr.
The official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida prominently placed a picture of the point-blank child killer on the front page, with the caption, "The Shahid Alaa Abu Dheim." In a page one article on the massacre at the Mercaz HaRav Kook yeshiva, his crime was again defined as an act of martyrdom (shahada).

Watchdog group Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) said that in publishing the article, "the PA is sending its people a straightforward message of support for the terror murders and the murderer." According to the PA's interpretation of Islam, PMW explained, a human being can achieve no higher status than that of shahid.

Will it cost them?
Besides its effect in inciting and encouraging terror, the honoring of terrorists by the PA has significant financial ramifications, PMW explained. Last week the US Administration sent a request to Congress to allocate $150 million to the Palestinian Authority. However, in response to earlier PMW reports on the widespread PA practice of honoring terror, Congress made it illegal for the US to give money to entities that "advocate" terror, as follows:

"[The Secretary of State] shall terminate assistance to any individual, entity... which she has determined to be involved in or advocating terrorist activity." Congress further legislated that "none of the [U.S.] ... assistance under the West Bank and Gaza Program may be made available for the purpose of recognizing or otherwise honoring individuals who commit, or have committed acts of terrorism" (2008 Foreign Operations Bill).

PMW stated Sunday: "Since a society's honoring of terrorists is one of the greatest terror prom
"[The Secretary of State] shall terminate assistance to any individual, entity... which she has determined to be involved in or advocating terrorist activity."

options, and as the budget for the PA newspaper comes from the PA's general budget, the incessant honoring of this and all recent terrorists by Abbas's PA as Holy Islamic Shahids should render the Palestinian Authority ineligible to receive any American money under the terms of US law.

Shahid status
To strengthen its case, PMW gave examples of statements made by five Palestinian religious leaders in the past few years, all teaching of the supreme status of the shahids:

"Shahada [Islamic Martyrdom] is an honor, only those who Allah desires, attain the privilege" (Sheikh Yusuf Abu Sneina, Al Aqsa Mosque, Friday Sermon, PA Radio, Dec. 28, 2001).

"When the Shahid meets his Maker, all his sins are forgiven from the first gush of blood, and he is exempted from the torments of the grave. He sees his place in Paradise. He is shielded from the Great Shock and marries 72 dark eyed [maidens]. He is a heavenly advocate for 70 members of his family. On his head is placed a crown of honor, one stone of which is worth more than all there is in this world" (Dr. Isma'il al-Raduan, Friday Sermon, PA TV, Aug 17, 2001).

"The believer was created to know his Lord to fulfill Islam... to be a Shahid or intend to be a Shahid. If the believer does not hope for Shahada he will die as in the Jahiliya [pre-Islam]... We must yearn for Shahada and request it from Allah. If we truthfully request it from Allah, he will grant us its rewards even if we die in bed" (Sheikh Ahmad Abdul Razak, PA TV Friday Sermon, March 22, 2002).

"We are not like you, because we do not desire life. If you threaten to kill President Arafat, we will pray to Allah: 'Grant the President Shahada for you.' Yes, we do not pray - like other preachers pray - for longevity for the rulers; here in Palestine we pray: 'Lord, grant the President Shahada for you'" (Sheikh Ibrahim Mudyris, PA TV Friday Sermon, April 30, 2004

"When a man sees one of his brothers being killed for Allah, a person with no head, no legs, his body completely burned. Intestines outside, fingers are gone... The most difficult thing which we fear is what the Shahids wish for most of all. They ask Allah: 'Oh God, bring us back [to earth] to be killed by the Apache, so the planes will blow us up, that our heads will be cut off...'

We shouldn't forget that Allah, praise him, in blessing the blood of the Shahid, He forgives him from the first gush of blood. And he sees his place in Paradise. He is shielded from the Great Shock and marries 72 Dark-Eyed Maidens (virgins)" (Sheikh Imad Hamato, PA TV religious program, Nov. 3, 2006).

[el borracho]

Not much 'jihad' called for in the Christian religion.

Of course not, but there are some tenets in the Bible that are a bit hardcore by the accepted Christian standards of today. Some Christian extremist groups use the Bible to justify their beliefs, the KKK being one example. Unfortunately no religion is immune from this kind of distortion.

[The Balkan]

Not much 'jihad' called for in the Christian religion.

Riiiiight. The Crusades were a picnic.

There's a "holy war" and violence in every religion if you choose to interpert it that way. The Bible has some of the most violent and catastrophic events to ever take place lmao. There's also passages that call for beheadings.

Hope you realize Jesus is one of the most quoted prophets in the Qu'Ran and the Bible is a holy book to Muslims too.

[Lokos]

How about the Serb group Tsar Lazar, which is recognized as a terrorist organization and has like over 4,000 soldiers. Another Serb group "White Eagles" which wanted to clense Serbia of all things non Christian.



White Eagles? The disbanded Bosnian War-era paramilitary group that had, at its peak, two hundred members? Tzar Lazar's Guard? The one that was formed less than a year ago, did nothing, and disbanded? Four thousand strong? Where do you get your information from, champ?

Pathetic.

Lokos

[seraosha]

Riiiiight. The Crusades were a picnic.

There's a "holy war" and violence in every religion if you choose to interpert it that way. The Bible has some of the most violent and catastrophic events to ever take place lmao. There's also passages that call for beheadings.

Hope you realize Jesus is one of the most quoted prophets in the Qu'Ran and the Bible is a holy book to Muslims too.

Gosh, no wai? Is this before the end times where Jesus is in the cheering section for the death of all JOOOS, or before where Muhammad is busy plagiarizing and misquoting the New Testament? Seriously, like I don't have a really nice Q'uran on my book shelf next to the L. Ron Hubbard and between the Hitchhikers Guide Series...you know, comedy.

All anyone needs to know about Islam is in the Q'uran...go ahead and read it. The amount of lunacy intermixed with some genuine good ideas is absurd. That supposedly 1 Billion people believe this drivel is the funniest part. Hopefully the reformation movement that has started in Turkey will be successful swaying the ignorant and illiterate followers of hate mongering Imams away from their bile, and towards the true meaning of Islam...which would be really great, because the state it is in now is bordering on slapstick comedy with razorblades instead of cream pies.

[Calanen]

Riiiiight. The Crusades were a picnic.



Most people who refer to the Crusades, know very little about them.

But more than that they were a long long time ago. The First one was in 1095, and they weren't just called against muslims.

Pulling out the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades, is not particularly relevant to the modern age -say, in the last 20 years or so.

[woodduck]

I think it would help Islam if they were able to keep politics and religion separate. Its hard to be simpathetic when we see things like Irans president calling for the destuction of another country in the name of Islam.

One day religion will start WW3 and i think most of us will be around to see it.

[ren0312]

I think it would help Islam if they were able to keep politics and religion separate. Its hard to be simpathetic when we see things like Irans president calling for the destuction of another country in the name of Islam.

One day religion will start WW3 and i think most of us will be around to see it.

The problem with the Koran is that it does not recognize state and religion as a separate sphere, they are linked, and since it is the duty of every Muslim to obey all of the tenets of the Koran, techinically, every true Muslim must be in favor of Sharia becoming the law of the state.

[Firetxmi]

The problem with the religious right is that it does not recognize state and religion as a separate sphere, they are linked, and since it is the duty of every Christian to obey all of the tenets of the Bible, technically, every "true" Christian must be in favor of Christian based constitutional amendments becoming the law of the state.

There fixed it for you.

Huckabee strong!!! :D

[9mmRifle]

There fixed it for you.



Dude, that's just a few Christian nuts but they won't stone you and there are many agnostic people, secular, apostates, atheists in Western society - denounce Islam however and you will risk having your head chopped off. According to the website apostatesofislam :
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/drsanity/Muhammed1.jpg

One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a ****** pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time.

Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have *** with their captives and their “right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia.

[Bongopete]

Wow....its like she just put a 'kick me' sign on her back or painted a big target on her chest.

Still, the lady has guts.

[The Balkan]

Gosh, no wai? Is this before the end times where Jesus is in the cheering section for the death of all JOOOS, or before where Muhammad is busy plagiarizing and misquoting the New Testament? Seriously, like I don't have a really nice Q'uran on my book shelf next to the L. Ron Hubbard and between the Hitchhikers Guide Series...you know, comedy.

All anyone needs to know about Islam is in the Q'uran...go ahead and read it. The amount of lunacy intermixed with some genuine good ideas is absurd. That supposedly 1 Billion people believe this drivel is the funniest part. Hopefully the reformation movement that has started in Turkey will be successful swaying the ignorant and illiterate followers of hate mongering Imams away from their bile, and towards the true meaning of Islam...which would be really great, because the state it is in now is bordering on slapstick comedy with razorblades instead of cream pies.

Where as the Bible is 100% great and logical. And every other religion. Maybe you should go live in a whale for 2 weeks. If by some "miracle" you survive and come back and talk to us about the experience.

You go ahed and continue with your little hate monger crusade against a whole group, if it's fine with this board, great.

[The Balkan]

Most people who refer to the Crusades, know very little about them.

But more than that they were a long long time ago. The First one was in 1095, and they weren't just called against muslims.

Pulling out the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades, is not particularly relevant to the modern age -say, in the last 20 years or so.

I never implied it was only against Muslims. What's that eve have to do with the point that plenty of Christians were invovled in "holy wars"?

[The Balkan]

White Eagles? The disbanded Bosnian War-era paramilitary group that had, at its peak, two hundred members? Tzar Lazar's Guard? The one that was formed less than a year ago, did nothing, and disbanded? Four thousand strong? Where do you get your information from, champ?

Pathetic.

Lokos

I never said "groups that are currently active" just Christian groups in general, stop getting so defensive like a little whiny punk.

The new White Eagles were formed in 1991-1992 by Dragoslav Bokan (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dragoslav_Bokan&action=edit&redlink=1) and Mirko Jović (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirko_Jovi%C4%87).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-2)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-3)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-4) Šešelj states that the group was started by Jović but they got out of his control.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-5) Testimony at the International War Crimes Tribunal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_the_former_Yugoslavia) indicates that the White Eagles were responsible for a number of atrocities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-Allen) during the Croatian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence) and Bosnian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina) wars, including: the Voćin massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vo%C4%87in_massacre)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-6)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-7), Višegrad massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C5%A1egrad_massacre), crimes at Foča (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fo%C4%8Da)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-8), Gacko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacko)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-9) and others. Various members of the White Eagles were indicted by the Tribunal, including Milan Lukić (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Luki%C4%87)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_%28paramilitary%29#_note-10) and Mitar Vasiljević (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitar_Vasiljevi%C4%87).


But of course Wiki is edited by anti-serb albanians!



A quick reaction to these claims came from the recently founded "Tsar Lazar's Guard," a group that also, according to Kosovo media, has organized patrols in Serbia, near the Kosovo border. Media quoted local residents as saying that they had seen groups of uniformed and armed men in the area.
In May, the Movement of Veterans of Serbia (PVS) - a minor extremist party with a single seat in the Serbian parliament - organized the Tsar Lazar's Guard paramilitary unit, comprised of war veterans from across Serbia who fought in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo in the 1990s. The unit is said to have 5,000 troops. Symbolically, the group was named after a Serbian noble who fought and died at the Battle of Kosovo in1389.

[kamaz]

these people are like children. they hear something they dont like and go out and intimidate,kill or shout out any form of coherence. Then this idiot on this show keeps saying just dumb, stupid things about the US, his McArthur/Phillipines remark was incredibly stupid and silly, and this is the man thats defending his religion.

and Sultan is right to talk about the religion, because Islamic politics stem from its own religious teachings, from austere and uncompromising way of islamic thought and politics and conversion and submission practices.

anything needing change needs to be provoked first.

[INAT]

I never implied it was only against Muslims. What's that eve have to do with the point that plenty of Christians were invovled in "holy wars"?


Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

[Ulytau]

@Calanen i read much about Crusaders also it was really good example about who using religion for their own agenda..

@9mm

Honestly wanted to say ''LOL'' Especially to who wrote it they have any idea about history or Bahira etc? rofl


Only wanted to ask first we all know who supported political religion before also what they did to muslim population too but problem is terror or all muslims?Cause extremists wanna see all muslims at their side and wanna a serious war like clash between civizilations or something..Also extremists are using same things for propaganda..Remember comments of NATO chairman..

Still especially intellectual people who expert about religion and history need to do serious meetings..

Extremists dont like who expert about religion history too..

Like a Turkish Woman Researcher Bahriye Üçok;

She knew normally his native language Turkish and French,Persian,Arabic like her native language..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahriye_%C3%9C%C3%A7ok

A little info about her.

Oh by the way who were carryin bomb is DTP member right now interestin isnt it?

[Calanen]

What's that eve have to do with the point that plenty of Christians were invovled in "holy wars"?

The 'point' is - that it was 1000 years ago. And making reference to things that happened, say, even 20 years ago - does not really help us solve our current problems or excuse the actions of people who are here right now. We cant change the Crusades. We can change (if we are not a bunch of pansies) the effects that radical islam has on the western world.

[kamaz]

The 'point' is - that it was 1000 years ago. And making reference to things that happened, say, even 20 years ago - does not really help us solve our current problems or excuse the actions of people who are here right now. We cant change the Crusades. We can change (if we are not a bunch of pansies) the effects that radical islam has on the western world.

exactly. people that are ignorant of the overal Xtian/Muslim history generally refer to the Crusades as some kind of a Christian fault and arrogance. The truth is much dirtier and complex than this. The term 'crusade' originated directly from the Muslim's use of the term 'jihad', a religious war (the very first religious war was started by Cyrus of Persia against the Assyrians, btw)

Christian crusades were a direct response to Islamic conquest, including the holy city of Jerusalem. The christian pilgrims were massacred by islamic armies from 1020 to 1100s, up until 1187 with the fall of Jerusalem to the Saracens.

its all ancient history regardless. the general term of 'crusades' does not excuse or explain the modern day savagery of some of Muslim thinking and ideology, like beheadings, sharia, the concept of jazziya and kuffar, and all kinds of intolerant and backward practices.

[Hollis]

It is a complex issue. Part is cultural development, part is world is shrinking in that; we are all getting to be closer neighbors.

Religion has been used through out history to control people.


Our world is struggling with countries that are open and "free" and countries that are still operating as they where 200 years ago. Technology is spreading faster than cultural development, education, literacy and political freedoms. Social repression is dieing out and those whose lively hoods are based on social repression are struggling to maintain their hold. The inequalities that have existed for centuries are becoming obvious to those who are oppressed. This awareness is most likely from simple things like satellite TV.

You can free a slave physically, but unless you free their mind, they are still a slave. It comes down to freedom, a person can not be truly free if someone in another part of the world lives under oppression. A person must be free physically and intellectually.

[Laworkerbee]

Hope you realize Jesus is one of the most quoted prophets in the Qu'Ran and the Bible is a holy book to Muslims too.

Of the two prophets quoted in the Quron Jesus was quoted; while true lets not over do it as he is not quoted often.

The "Bible" is not considered the word of God and therefore is not holy in their eyes, stop spewing miss information.

[The Balkan]

The 'point' is - that it was 1000 years ago. And making reference to things that happened, say, even 20 years ago - does not really help us solve our current problems or excuse the actions of people who are here right now. We cant change the Crusades. We can change (if we are not a bunch of pansies) the effects that radical islam has on the western world.

So what the **** do you want me to tell you? I admitted a thousand times Islamic radicalism is a big problem. But I won't tolerate bull****. Point blank.

Seems like some people on this board won't be satisfied untill they prove every Muslim and Arab is a brainless savage ape. I could give a **** about Islam, I just can't stand racism and other generalizations especialy by people who think they know EVERYHTING cuz they looked up some internet sites made by some White Christian dipsh*ts ( see I can do it too). Convincing people Islam is pure evil is just as bad as the radicals convincing their side that the rest of us are evil.

Someone says "Christians don't do holy wars". I point out the crusades. They "say that was long ago". Then people compare WAR ZONES in Iraq where everyone is getting killed and they go "see see they're muslims! and there's lots of killing!". Wtf a country got invaded, even if they were some other religion you'd have war on your hands.

[The Balkan]

Of the two prophets quoted in the Quron Jesus was quoted; while true lets not over do it as he is not quoted often.

The "Bible" is not considered the word of God and therefore is not holy in their eyes, stop spewing miss information.

You're either stupid or a just a liar.

[Laworkerbee]

You're either stupid or a just a liar.

Your name calling doesn't change the facts tough guy. Put up or shut up.


I have "Put Up" by providing you and everyone else with three links 1 Muslim, 1 Christian, and 1 secular and all back what I am telling you.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

http://www.letusreason.org/Islam5.htm

http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=37&id=15055

[INAT]

You're either stupid or a just a liar.


When you have lost an argument or are unable to articulate yourself you
resort to name calling? Are you the protector of all Muslims everywhere?

[The Balkan]

Your name calling doesn't change the facts tough guy. Put up or shut up.

Specifically, the Qur'an identifies books known as the Tawrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawrat) (the Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah), or perhaps the entire Hebrew Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible)), the Zabur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabur) (the Book of Psalms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Psalms)), and the Injil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injil) (the Gospels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gospels), or perhaps the entire New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament)) as genuine divine revelations taken from the same Guarded Tablets as the Qur'an itself and brought by true messengers to both Jews and Christians respectively. Together with the Qur'an itself, and the now unknown Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suhuf-i-Ibrahim) ("Scrolls of Abraham"), these make up the ketub, the Islamic holy books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_holy_books). Belief in the divine inspiration of all of these books is one of the fundamental tenets of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_articles_of_belief).


Get it?

You realize Christianity and Islam have the same root right? Both Abrahamic religons. Both view Jesus as a Messiah and prophet. Both belive Jesus will return. Christians are known as other "people of the book" in Islam. It says to be good to them. People of the book, as in the scriptures God revelaed before the Qu'Ran. THE BIBLE. The Qu'Ran QUOTES the Bible. Islam says Moses was given the laws and Jesus was given the gospels. Given by the SAME ABRAHAMIC GOD. Allah is what that God is called in Arabic.

Great.



When you have lost an argument or are unable to articulate yourself you
resort to name calling? Are you the protector of all Muslims everywhere?

Lol bet you feel stupid now, since I just proved him wrong in every possible aspect.

And no I'm not the protector of Muslims genius. More like I try not to be a racist generalizing asshole to anyone. I don't gve a **** about Muslims or Islam. I only studied religion so I could understand things not to practise it. And to argue with religion people better :)

[Laworkerbee]

Balkan boy, you are so tough you piss bullets.

I've read more of Quron than of the bible, you have stated that you hate religion and yet you are going to teach me that both religions stem from the same root, is this a joke? even most children knows this.

Tell me something I don't know tough guy or better yet provide a link or links like I did so none of us have to read your tough guy words.

[The Balkan]

Balkan boy, you are so tough you piss bullets.

I've read more of Quron than of the bible, you have stated that you hate religion and yet you are going to teach me that both religions stem from the same root, is this a joke? even most children knows this.

Tell me something I don't know tough guy or better yet provide a link or links like I did so none of us have to read your tough guy words.

Lmao It sucks being wrong huh? Re-read my post. The part about beliving in the Bible being fundemental.

BTW my dad's side of the family is Muslim, so I don't care how much you read, you can't tell me ****.

And yea I'm pretty badass thanks.

[INAT]

Lol bet you feel stupid now, since I just proved him wrong in every possible aspect.

And no I'm not the protector of Muslims genius. More like I try not to be a racist generalizing asshole to anyone. I don't gve a **** about Muslims or Islam. I only studied religion so I could understand things not to practise it. And to argue with religion people better :)[/quote]

No I do not as you did not really prove anything beyond your pro-Jihad/ pro-Islam stance.After all of your comments you are going to back peddle and tell us you don't give a **** about Muslims and then admit that your dads side is Muslim which is it man.Your story shifts back and forth. If you are a neutral party why spend so much time on a subject you do not care about.Why respond to just about every comment by other users on this thread.You just like to argue or what sine?

[The Balkan]

No I do not as you did not really prove anything beyond your pro-Jihad/ pro-Islam stance.After all of your comments you are going to back peddle and tell us you don't give a **** about Muslims and then admit that your dads side is Muslim which is it man.Your story shifts back and forth. If you are a neutral party why spend so much time on a subject you do not care about.Why respond to just about every comment by other users on this thread.You just like to argue or what sine?

The fact that you twisted me defending regular Muslims into me being pro-Jihad says everything about you.

Yea man I'm pro-Jihad. Cuz I said don't generalize and be racist. You're so right. The way you twist my views is so great.

You're the worst kind of person, you seriosly make me sick. Why am I defending a religion I don't care about? Maybe cuz I'm not a hypocrite? Maybe cuz I can't stand anyone generalizing people no matter which group it is. Tomorow you might turn around and do it to me or someone else. Sorry that I don't pick and choose who to defend. I don't really particularly love gay people either but I'll still defend them against some asshole. If it's not right against Blacks and Jews and Serbs and whoever why would be ok against Muslims?

Anyone who thinks Islam is a evil religion of hate and those piece of crap terrorists are "real Muslims", doesn't know what they're talking about. PERIOD.

[Laworkerbee]

Anyone who thinks Islam is a evil religion of hate and those piece of crap terrorists are "real Muslims", doesn't know what they're talking about. PERIOD.

I have said nothing negative about Islam, just that you are mistaken which you are.

Oh and your a real tough guy, so though in fact that when you fart napalm shoots from your ass.

[INAT]

The fact that you twisted me defending regular Muslims into me being pro-Jihad says everything about you.

Yea man I'm pro-Jihad. Cuz I said don't generalize and be racist. You're so right. The way you twist my views is so great.

You're the worst kind of person, you seriosly make me sick. Why am I defending a religion I don't care about? Maybe cuz I'm not a hypocrite? Maybe cuz I can't stand anyone generalizing people no matter which group it is. Tomorow you might turn around and do it to me or someone else. Sorry that I don't pick and choose who to defend. I don't really particularly love gay people either but I'll still defend them against some asshole. If it's not right against Blacks and Jews and Serbs and whoever why would be ok against Muslims?


OK I see you are a protector of the poor,weak and defenseless? Are you a self righteous superman type? I make you sick do I? rofl Well at least I elicit a response.I feel rather ambivalent towards you.So now you fight for justice and equality for all mankind? I must say you are amazing when do you sleep?


LAWB:napalm and gas in one reply NICE!!!!

[ed316]

Only when you look into yourself can you start changing.

[The Balkan]

I have said nothing negative about Islam, just that you are mistaken which you are.

Oh and your a real tough guy, so though in fact that when you fart napalm shoots from your ass.

I wasn't wrong about anything. The Bible and Torah are both part of Islam. Sorry.

lmao @ the second part.....wtf. :|

[IraGlacialis]

Oh and your a real tough guy, so though in fact that when you fart napalm shoots from your ass.
That would be so awesome. Except for the case of losing pants everytime their is a passing of gas. :|

[The Balkan]

OK I see you are a protector of the poor,weak and defenseless? Are you a self righteous superman type? I make you sick do I? rofl Well at least I elicit a response.I feel rather ambivalent towards you.So now you fight for justice and equality for all mankind? I must say you are amazing when do you sleep?

Yup make fun of me for not being a piece of **** Lol.

I guess this proves my point.

[Laworkerbee]

Here in some information provided by the links I gave you, I know your father is now a Muslim so you can't possibly be bothered to read links.

From http://www.islam-guide.com/
(1) Muslims also believe that God revealed a holy book to Jesus called the Injeel, some parts of which may be still available in the teachings of God to Jesus in the New Testament. But this does not mean that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today because it is not the original scriptures that were revealed by God. They underwent alterations, additions, and omissions.

This is true and I believe the same as Muslims here.

From http://www.letusreason.org/Islam5.htm

However when it comes to the Bible in our hands today they consider it corrupted, not being accurate as it was written. Because of this God gave the restored truth to Mohammed which is written down in the Qur'an. They claim the Qur'an is the full and final revelation of God, and that Mohammed is the seal of all the prophets.

From http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=37&id=15055

Needless to say, Muslims consider Isa (Jesus) as one of “their” prophets and even though they do not consider Bible the word of God they love Isa and truly believe in the authenticity of what Isa preached.



So there you have it Tough guy, read it and weep or skeet or what ever it is tough guys from Albania do when they are not drinking that Plum brandy crap.

[The Balkan]

Here in some information provided by the links I gave you, I know your father is now a Muslim so you can't possibly be bothered to read links.

From Islam Guide
(1) Muslims also believe that God revealed a holy book to Jesus called the Injeel, some parts of which may be still available in the teachings of God to Jesus in the New Testament. But this does not mean that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today because it is not the original scriptures that were revealed by God. They underwent alterations, additions, and omissions.

This is true and I believe the same as Muslims here.

From http://www.letusreason.org/Islam5.htm

However when it comes to the Bible in our hands today they consider it corrupted, not being accurate as it was written. Because of this God gave the restored truth to Mohammed which is written down in the Qur'an. They claim the Qur'an is the full and final revelation of God, and that Mohammed is the seal of all the prophets.

From http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=37&id=15055

Needless to say, Muslims consider Isa (Jesus) as one of “their” prophets and even though they do not consider Bible the word of God they love Isa and truly believe in the authenticity of what Isa preached.

So there you have it Tough guy, read it and weep or skeet or what ever it is tough guys from Albania do when they are not drinking that Plum brandy crap.

You keep beliving what you want. And I'm not from Albania.

[INAT]

I wasn't wrong about anything. The Bible and Torah are both part of Islam. Sorry.

lmao @ the second part.....wtf. :|


Part of Islam? First the Torah then the Bible then the Qu'ran in terms of a historic timeline Islam sees itself as a continuation and expansion of ideas that Jews and Christians formulated.Islam sees itself as the end of a process that is one of the reasons it has a hard time coming to terms with the Torah and Bible.

[Laworkerbee]

You keep beliving what you want. And I'm not from Albania.

I'm just sharing the truth, do with it as you wish Tough guy.

The bible is not a Holly book according to Islam, find me one shred stating this.

[The Balkan]

I'm just sharing the truth, do with it as you wish Tough guy.

No you're sharing what you think is truth. What you wrote is in no way any more credible then what I wrote and what I pasted. At least I'm somewhat connected to the religion and have experience. You obviosly don't.

I already found you the proof. Maybe you can't read right.

[The Balkan]

Part of Islam? First the Torah then the Bible then the Qu'ran in terms of a historic timeline Islam sees itself as a continuation and expansion of ideas that Jews and Christians formulated.Islam sees itself as the end of a process that is one of the reasons it has a hard time coming to terms with the Torah and Bible.


don't you find it just a LITTLE ODD.... That of all the people here arguing with me...NONE OF YOU ARE MUSLIMS.....and yet you know better then the guy who's family is.

lmao everyones a scholar now.

[INAT]

I'm just sharing the truth, do with it as you wish Tough guy.

The bible is not a Holly book according to Islam, find me one shred stating this.


Hey Bee you know the saying about discussing politics or religion.We will not convince this boy and he will not convince us.We are beating a dead horse.

Balkan just because you are Muslim does not give you any great insight or revelation.It might blind you a bit as any religious ferver usually does.

[Laworkerbee]

No you're sharing what you think is truth. What you wrote is in no way any more credible then what I wrote and what I pasted. At least I'm somewhat connected to the religion and have experience. You obviosly don't.

I already found you the proof. Maybe you can't read right.

You are a complete ****. What I have posted is not what I believe, it is what is fact.

Get that into your tough guy brain.

[The Balkan]

Oh wait, no wonder...I just noticed your name..INAT...makes sense now....:\

[The Balkan]

You are a complete ****. What I have posted is not what I believe, it is what is fact.

Get that into your tough guy brain.

Its not a fact, sorry. Your knowledge of Islam doesn't go beyond a few sites on the net. Sorry.

[SBL]

don't you find it just a LITTLE ODD.... That of all the people here arguing with me...NONE OF YOU ARE MUSLIMS.....and yet you know better then the guy who's family is.

lmao everyones a scholar now.

I like to think that affords some people a certain amount of objectivity.

[The Balkan]

I like to think that affords some people a certain amount of objectivity.

No, it doesn't. I'm the one who's family is Muslim but I am not. I rejected my dad's religion and my mom's who is Christian. I've never been pressured by either into anything. Not even for a second. I'd love if my parents completly denounced their religions (even though they're not that serious about them anyway, don't pray 5 times a day, or go to mosques or churches etc..) Like most Bosnian and Albanian Muslims. That I know anyway. My grandmother is very religious though. The avarege American/Canadian is more religious then us, from my experience. Although my parents both KNOW alot about their religions due to family tradition and all that.

[ed316]

Just because you are a certain religion doesn't make you an expert in it. You just have to look at the different sects of some religions. Everyone has a different interpretation.

[The Balkan]

Just because you are a certain religion doesn't make you an expert in it. You just have to look at the different sects of some religions. Everyone has a different interpretation.

Fair enough. It's also fair to say what he said is in no wya more "fact" then what I said. He's no expert either. Another guy laughed at me cuz I don't hate whole groups of people. This board is great.

[seraosha]

LOL, I love it when jokers try to play the "race card" as some kind of bolster to their inane arguments. Seriously, keep digging man, you'll find the truth, or some kind of winning argument if you keep trying. Insulting folks on the boards is a really great method as well.

You do realize that you are proving the negative stereotypes, right?
You think you are the first asshat with an axe to grind to come onto the boards and try to set everyone "straight" in regards to their pet issue?

You are doing far more damage to your own arguments every time you type The Balkan, than I could by responding to your emotion filled reactionary responses. But by all means, continue...the mods just might be giving this free reign to see if you have a point. I hope you do, otherwise this has been a waste of time.

[Laworkerbee]

Hey Bee you know the saying about discussing politics or religion.We will not convince this boy and he will not convince us.We are beating a dead horse.

Balkan just because you are Muslim does not give you any great insight or revelation.It might blind you a bit as any religious ferver usually does.

I agree, but I wanted people on this board to be able to draw from honest information than from this Balkan hothead.

It is days like this I thank God I wasn't born a Serb or an Israeli.

[ed316]

This board is a good place to read people's view from around the globe. You just have to accept that some people will not agree with you and accept that.

[The Balkan]

LOL, I love it when jokers try to play the "race card" as some kind of bolster to their inane arguments. Seriously, keep digging man, you'll find the truth, or some kind of winning argument if you keep trying. Insulting folks on the boards is a really great method as well.

You do realize that you are proving the negative stereotypes, right?
You think you are the first asshat with an axe to grind to come onto the boards and try to set everyone "straight" in regards to their pet issue?

You are doing far more damage to your own arguments every time you type The Balkan, than I could by responding to your emotion filled reactionary responses. But by all means, continue...the mods just might be giving this free reign to see if you have a point. I hope you do, otherwise this has been a waste of time.

Everyone ganging up on the one guy who started this whole thing by saying "don't generalize". That's litteraly how this argument started...

Cuz people made comments that were ****ed up.

I'm proving a Muslim stereotype, by not being a actual Muslim, and by saying religion isn't itself evil.

Is that even possible?

[The Balkan]

This board is a good place to read people's view from around the globe. You just have to accept that some people will not agree with you and accept that.

You're right. I just thought most people agreed on "you can't judge everyone by the minority of idiots".

I guess not.

When I said that, I got attacked from all sides.





It is days like this I thank God I wasn't born a Serb or an Israeli.

See? more.

[Laworkerbee]

When I said that, I got attacked from all sides.

No your just a **** who wouldn't know an open honest conversation if it punched you in the face. I wanted nothing more than an honest exchange of idea's and opinions with you.

But now I could care less.

[INAT]

I agree, but I wanted people on this board to be able to draw from honest information than from this Balkan hothead.

It is days like this I thank God I wasn't born a Serb or an Israeli.


I certainly understand.The sad thing is in terms of culture me and Balkanboy are the same(If he is a Yugoslav Muslim). It is religion and only religion that seperates us as both of my parents are Pravoslavni (Orthodox Christian).This mode of thinking sadly is common to Serbs,Croats and Slavic Muslims.

We make an art out of beating a dead horse we really do.

[The Balkan]

Lol @ how many times you've called me a ****.

Anyway here's my first post in this thread, which started this whole argument. Here's my post where I declared Jihad on...well I don't even know who.



Everything was great up untill these comments...

Describing the illustrations, Sultan continued, "The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that?

This is just pure ignorance.

Insted of talking about the idiots who became violent over a cartoon, she inuslts a billion people. Then supports the killing.

Her irrational Islamophobia is disgustingly obvious.


But I give up. You guys are right. Muslims are a problem. I don't see any other solution but to either kill them all, or erase their religion somehow. I don't know. I'll be sure to be careful around them when Is ee them on the street from now on.

Islam is a religion of hate.

You win.

[Laworkerbee]

I certainly understand.The sad thing is in terms of culture me and Balkanboy are the same(If he is a Yugoslav Muslim). It is religion and only religion that seperates us as both of my parents are Pravoslavni (Orthodox Christian).This mode of thinking sadly is common to Serbs,Croats and Slavic Muslims.

Are you near my AO? if so we should meet up for drinks some day.

[seraosha]

See? more.

"Harden Up" dude, jeez.

Anyway, Wafa Sultan's courage to speak up and despite the threats to continue to speak is a credit to oppressed women and others that act on their conscience.

/done

[ed316]

Are you near my AO? if so we should meet up for drinks some day.

Cosmos and buttsecks.

[Laworkerbee]

Cosmos and buttsecks.

Can't have one without the other Ed.

[INAT]

Are you near my AO? if so we should meet up for drinks some day.


Just sent you a email BEE. Yes we will take a shot for every response Balkanboy gives.No buttsecks though

[The Balkan]

I certainly understand.The sad thing is in terms of culture me and Balkanboy are the same(If he is a Yugoslav Muslim). It is religion and only religion that seperates us as both of my parents are Pravoslavni (Orthodox Christian).This mode of thinking sadly is common to Serbs,Croats and Slavic Muslims.

My dad is a Bosnian Muslim my mom is a Bosnian Serb.

I'm Bosnian. No religion. Religion doesn't factor in into anything in my life, let alone who I like or don't like.

You might not belive me, but I honestly didn't want to get into any big argument with anyone. I just didn't like what I was reading and how it sounded. But I made one post about saying this woman went a bit too far, and I got attacked by a few people.

[SBL]

Originally Posted by The Balkan http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3097818#post3097818)
Everything was great up untill these comments...

Describing the illustrations, Sultan continued, "The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that?

This is just pure ignorance.

Insted of talking about the idiots who became violent over a cartoon, she inuslts a billion people. Then supports the killing.

Her irrational Islamophobia is disgustingly obvious.
Your original post didn't make much sense, imo. Reading her quotes makes it pretty clear which Muslims she was referring to.

[INAT]

My dad is a Bosnian Muslim my mom is a Bosnian Serb.

I'm Bosnian. No religion. Religion doesn't factor in into anything in my life, let alone who I like or don't like.

You might not belive me, but I honestly didn't want to get into any big argument with anyone. I just didn't like what I was reading and how it sounded. But I made one post about saying this woman went a bit too far, and I got attacked by a few people.


I do realize I am playing into the dead horse thing but from other posts I have read your opinions on you seem to not be a fan of Serbs and maybe by extension Christians.Despite what may think you are not a neutral non-biased observer.The bottom line after a few pages of bs is that this is a very very brave woman to speak as a Muslim.Islam is firm but brittle and criticizing it from within or out is not tolerated.


Ok I really am done.

[The Balkan]

I do realize I am playing into the dead horse thing but from other posts I have read your opinions on you seem to not be a fan of Serbs and maybe by extension Christians.Despite what may think you are not a neutral non-biased observer.The bottom line after a few pages of bs is that this is a very very brave woman to speak as a Muslim.Islam is firm but brittle and criticizing it from within or out is not tolerated.


Ok I really am done.

I don't like religion. You're 100% right there.

And I'm not a fan of Serbia. The country. But there's no real hate for anyone.

[Lokos]

And I'm not a fan of Serbia. The country.

*sad face*

Your mother must be a very tame woman, to have let your father turn one half of you against the other, and have it dominate. Look, honestly, I'd rather not have you claim any part Serb heritage. You're either proud of who you are, or we'd rather not have you. And, let's face it, you don't like us. That's cool. Not everyone can handle being a global pariah, and still walk tall.

Lokos

[INAT]

*sad face*

Your mother must be a very tame woman, to have let your father turn one half of you against the other, and have it dominate. Look, honestly, I'd rather not have you claim any part Serb heritage. You're either proud of who you are, or we'd rather not have you. And, let's face it, you don't like us. That's cool. Not everyone can handle being a global pariah, and still walk tall.

Lokos


Sto posto!

[dimasorokine]

Lokos, now you gone talked about his momma! *SNAP*

But seriously, I'm a big fan of Serbia - and not a fan of Albania. But I have to agree with The Balkan, when it comes to generalizing Muslims a lot of the members take it too far.

-Dima

[The Balkan]

*sad face*

Your mother must be a very tame woman, to have let your father turn one half of you against the other, and have it dominate. Look, honestly, I'd rather not have you claim any part Serb heritage. You're either proud of who you are, or we'd rather not have you. And, let's face it, you don't like us. That's cool. Not everyone can handle being a global pariah, and still walk tall.

Lokos

Lmao I'm sorry. My mom is a Bosnian Serb though. We're all Bosnians. She has nothing to do with Serbia other then having the same religion as the majority of your population. Don't think she's ever even BEEN to Serbia except Belgrade airport lol.

I never liked that argument honestly. That a Bosnian who's always had roots in Bosnia for generations but who just happens to be Orthodox or Catholic, identifies more with Serbia or Croatia. You see what I'm trying to say? Alot of RS Serbs I know act like they're more part of Serbia then Bosnia lol.

[The Balkan]

But look I'll say this!

At the end of the day, we're all Balkan people. Despite different religions and even regional differences in look or culture we're all Balkan people. And even when I hate us I love us. We have a talent for starting wars, and pissing off the whole world.

Irony is then we we actualy get into one place we all argue lmao. With eachother we go into all these little specifics but with others I just go ehhhh I'm Balkan, lets go drink.