Beijing Olympics, does China really deserve the honor?

[Hawaii_Light]

Beijing Olympics, does China really deserve them? It seems i can't turn on the T.V or even travel in Canada without being confronted by the huge opposition to China hosting the Olympics games. I was in Vancouver a month ago for knee surgery (my first time back in Canada for 4 years) and long expanses of fence were covered by grotesque pictures of victims of Human Rights abuse. Tibetians are being beaten and arrested, Chinese civil protesters who wrote a letter to the government are now in chains. Is the world letting China get away with this because of money? has the Olympics lost all of its meaning and just becoming another victim of greed?

also the huge risk of a terrorsit attack which im sure the Chinese are quite compentent in handling is an ever present risk in country where many people are disinfranchiesed with the widening gap between rich and poor.

so what do you guys think? am i all along in thinking that countries need to start calling China out, because so far its been things like pollution that are being acted on.

[dimasorokine]

I guess that China deserves the Olympics as much as Russia or the US...Furthermore it is about sports, not politics and China is a major sports power.

-Dima

[Hawaii_Light]

I agree with that one hundred percent. But what i am really trying to get at is how come countries are not criticising China nor threatening to boycott the Olympics. Recently in Greece the Greek government silenced nonviolent tibetian protestors who were protesting the olympics on what the BBC offers an explenation to be an action spurred by Greece's increasing trade ties with China and it not wanting to show a bad face to Chinese diplomates. it was actually a really intreasting segment of the news.

one of the reasons i am intreseated in this is right now i am studying International Relations and Terrorism in Asia at a University where a large majority of students are mainland Chinese so I gather their opionons as well.

[dimasorokine]

I have heard of plenty of protests and articles in western media critical of China...Maybe it comes down to China being a mojor world power and the west being quite dependent on its factories and labour force - most countries can't afford to simply boycott. When it comes to money, human rights and polution take a back seat. Besides, when you think about it you can make a case against any major world power holding the Olympics - As I've said before US and Russia come to mind.

-Dima

[9mmRifle]

I have heard of plenty of protests and articles in western media critical of China...Maybe it comes down to China being a mojor world power and the west being quite dependent on its factories and labour force - most countries can't afford to simply boycott.



It's pathetic to look at the western media behave this way (fox, bbc, skynews, theAustralian, the Nytimes)
and doing it at the time of the Olympics they look like a bunch of sour-puss muthas and sore losers.
China is here now and here to be a dominant force
I agree they have a brutal system, a dreadful humans rights record and so on but there's a a better place to confront them on these issues.

[PeoplesPoster]

It's pathetic to look at the western media behave this way (fox, bbc, skynews, theAustralian, the Nytimes)
and doing it at the time of the Olympics they look like a bunch of sour-puss muthas and sore losers.
China is here now and here to be a dominant force
I agree they have a brutal system, a dreadful humans rights record and so on but there's a a better place to confront them on these issues.

In the end it's not going to do anything besides sour the Chinese population's opinion of the west, confirming nationalist propaganda that the west is out to keep China down. It sure as hell isn't going to affect Chinese policy.

[Hawaii_Light]

and that is an excellent point, Nationalism is so ripe in China right now exspecially with the olympics, it seems every chinese student is wearing an olympics shirt and there have been street interveiws conducted in china were the privilidged half of china is boasting about how it will be the best olympics in the history of the olympics and will be for the remainder of time. pretty strong remarks. but i think what is really happening is that everybody is afraid of the power China holds over there economy and therefore is remaining silent.

[9mmRifle]

Western media has always been hostile to China but some of the worst offenders are the sour grapes Japanese, the nihon keizai shimbun and sankei shimbun. :petting: They despise the fact their nation is going to be eclipsed by the Chinese, its all redflags and alarm bells these days and some of its leaders have been really hostile to the notion of China hosting the Olympics. rofl
This despite the fact everyone had no trouble turning out to play for Hitler's Olympics and everyone was happy to turn out for Japan's Olympic games of the 60s despite the fact that a few years earlier the Japanese themselves were responsible for some of the worst massacres in the history of man.
S.Koreans tend to be more pragmatic, they know their own nation despite it being a million times better than the DPRK had only emerged from a near martial law dictatorship when they were awarded their Olympic games, and the S.Koreans accept China is going to be a big player in the region.

[Ordie]

how come countries are not criticising China nor threatening to boycott the Olympics.

The main reason is that boycotting the Olympics is a zero sum game.

The last time there was a major boycott campaign was during the 1980 Moscow Olympics. President Carter used the boycott to try to force the Soviets to withdrawl from Afghanistan. It didn't work and the US along with other countries boycotted the Olympics. Needless to say many potential Olympians were denied their dreams and left a sour note to that generations.

During the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, the Soviet Union led other Communist Bloc nations boycott the LA games. Again many athletes were left out in the cold and some atheletes felt unchallenged.

Because of these two events, nations would rather prefer separating politics and the games themselves. The host country usually must accept the responsibility of not only organizing the event but as well as being in the spotlight for both good and bad. Its really up to the inididuals to make the Beijing Olympics an issue, not countries.

[9mmRifle]

The last time there was a major boycott campaign was during the 1980 Moscow Olympics. President Carter used the boycott to try to force the Soviets to withdrawl from Afghanistan. It didn't work and the US along with other countries boycotted the Olympics. Needless to say many potential Olympians were denied their dreams and left a sour note to that generations.

During the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, the Soviet Union led other Communist Bloc nations boycott the LA games. Again many athletes were left out in the cold and some atheletes felt unchallenged.



Iranians actually boycotted both Olympics, both the Moscow and Los Angeles due to American-Russian crimes against Islam.

[Hawaii_Light]

Western media has always been hostile to China but some of the worst offenders are the sour grapes Japanese, the nihon keizai shimbun and sankei shimbun. :petting: They despise the fact their nation is going to be eclipsed by the Chinese, its all redflags and alarm bells these days and some of its leaders have been really hostile to the notion of China hosting the Olympics. rofl
This despite the fact everyone had no trouble turning out to play for Hitler's Olympics and everyone was happy to turn out for Japan's Olympic games of the 60s despite the fact that a few years earlier the Japanese themselves were responsible for some of the worst massacres in the history of man.
S.Koreans tend to be more pragmatic, they know their own nation despite it being a million times better than the DPRK had only emerged from a near martial law dictatorship when they were awarded their Olympic games, and the S.Koreans accept China is going to be a big player in the region.


well No body is helping the situation in East Asia with all these redicoulus fueds going back for hundreds of years. although of course most Asians would disagree with the fact that it is redicoulus. Can you possible imagine how powerful a strong political and economic pact between SKorea, China, and Japan? if only they would allow themselves to move on.

and by the way i have no connection to Japan other then working for the Military here for the past 4 years and attending a International University so dont try to turn this into something it isnt by thinking im a pro japanese do no wrong anime loving loser, there is nothing more i want to do then just move to bali and leave these bickering nations to the mess that they are fighting over.

[Hawaii_Light]

and of course the western media is, the chinese media cant be hostile to itself and survive.

[J-10]

The main reason is that boycotting the Olympics is a zero sum game.

Not a zero sum game, it's a zero.

[gaijinsamurai]

Hey, Hawaii_Light! Long time, no see! Osashiburidesu!

[J-10]

Hey, Hawaii_Light! Long time, no see! Osashiburidesu!

Just learn a little Japanese sentences, seems should write as お久しぶりです。Ohisashiburidesu.

[Hawaii_Light]

Hey, Hawaii_Light! Long time, no see! Osashiburidesu!

sashiburidesune, genkidesuka?
yeah its been awhile thats for sure, on base again working for awhile down here in sasebo while i am on break from university.
how have you been?

[Hawaii_Light]

Just learn a little Japanese sentences, seems should write as お久しぶりです。Ohisashiburidesu.

could be i am studying japanese military style 8hrs a day, 4 days a week and i have no clue half the time, but one thing i can tell you is that romanji isnt exactly easily translated into hiragana. also the "su" you used is the wrong one, that is Katakana which is only for foreign words, or words of some kind of weird japanese exception.

[gaijinsamurai]

Just learn a little Japanese sentences, seems should write as お久しぶりです。Ohisashiburidesu.

My POS keyboard doesn't allow it. I'd have to use my wife's computer, and that would be a hassle.

Hawaii-Light: PM sent!

[biar_ecare]

could be i am studying japanese military style 8hrs a day, 4 days a week and i have no clue half the time, but one thing i can tell you is that romanji isn't exactly easily translated into hiragana. also the "su" you used is the wrong one, that is Katakana which is only for foreign words, or words of some kind of weird japanese exception.

i'm pretty sure the su is hiragana

anyway, you'll see a lot of those protesters in Canada, whining about "free tibet", while i reply them with "free quebec"

We Chinese simply laugh at those protests and western media

[Bohemoth]

i'm pretty sure the su is hiragana

anyway, you'll see a lot of those protesters in Canada, whining about "free tibet", while i reply them with "free quebec"

We Chinese simply laugh at those protests and western media
Whatever your opinion might be, but laughing is inappropriate for sure.

[Ordie]

Given to nature of today's world, everyone is entitled to boycott products and nations as they wish.

However, as in the past, government boycotts and sanctions of sporting events are counterproductive and sets a precedence to the point that no one will show up to each others events.

[jennery587]

well No body is helping the situation in East Asia with all these redicoulus fueds going back for hundreds of years. although of course most Asians would disagree with the fact that it is redicoulus. Can you possible imagine how powerful a strong political and economic pact between SKorea, China, and Japan? if only they would allow themselves to move on.

and by the way i have no connection to Japan other then working for the Military here for the past 4 years and attending a International University so dont try to turn this into something it isnt by thinking im a pro japanese do no wrong anime loving loser, there is nothing more i want to do then just move to bali and leave these bickering nations to the mess that they are fighting over.


do you think USA will let japan , china, skorea united together i'll be disaster

[Angrykirill]

Whatever your opinion might be, but laughing is inappropriate for sure.

He's laughing at the protestors, not the victims of torture.

[lenovo]

If the U.S, a country that should take responsbilities for most wars in the world during the last 20 years, was allowed to host 1996 olympics, why China is not allowed to host 2008 olympics? Double standard or what?

At that time, hundreds of thousands of journlists and reporters will come to China and show you a real China, which might be a lot different than your bias and brainwashed view. Well, certainly some people don't like it...

[Group9]

Because the Olympics is a business, pure and simple. I didn't realize that until I was assigned to work in the 1996 Olympics by my agency.

Nothing matters except how much money they bring in. Nothing else. Nothing.

[Ordie]

At that time, hundreds of thousands of journlists and reporters will come to China and show you a real China, which might be a lot different than your bias and brainwashed view. Well, certainly some people don't like it...

I sincerely hope so for the sake of better understanding of the local issues. But keep in mind that good news rarely sells newspapers. That is true regardless of country, city or politics.

It would also be interesting in that China may unblock restricted IP addresses within the Beijing area where international visitors are expected to reside and use internet cafes.

[philbob]

r u guys seriouslly gonna watch the olympics? Boring

[Ordie]

r u guys seriouslly gonna watch the olympics? Boring
Yep...
Women's beach volleyball

[J-10]

I sincerely hope so for the sake of better understanding of the local issues. But keep in mind that good news rarely sells newspapers. That is true regardless of country, city or politics.

It would also be interesting in that China may unblock restricted IP addresses within the Beijing area where international visitors are expected to reside and use internet cafes.

Only rarely web site IP be blocked, 99.9% is OK.

[Hawaii_Light]

which might be a lot different than your bias and brainwashed view. Well, certainly some people don't like it...

look don't try bring the bias and brainwashed bull**** into this. I have spent enough time in modern China to know that its not some evil empire ok. Many of my friends are chinese studying here in Japan along with me, my next door neighbor and i are good friends and shes a member of the communist party there.

so take your flame bait some where else and stay away from personal attacks ok. this isn't an attack on the Chinese people.

[Ordie]

so take your flame bait some where else and stay away from personal attacks ok. this isn't an attack on the Chinese people.

lenovo does this often.
It's just typical sino-centric nationalist playing the victim negating news sources attitude.

I'm familiar with his type. Just mention that the US/NATO bombing of Chinese Embassy in Belgrade was an accident and you'll get a sino-nationalist going on for hours.

[J-10]

Dear Mr. Ordie, this is a current news http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130164

How do you estimate the reality of the CNN report? I guess you be likely to believe it 90%.

[Hawaii_Light]

lenovo does this often.
It's just typical sino-centric nationalist playing the victim negating news sources attitude.

I'm familiar with his type. Just mention that the US/NATO bombing of Chinese Embassy in Belgrade was an accident and you'll get a sino-nationalist going on for hours.

alot has changed since i was here last, it seems the Eastern Euroupean Nationalists are being replaced by East Asian Nationalists.

and wasnt it an accide.... hahaha

[Ordie]

alot has changed since i was here last, it seems the Eastern Euroupean Nationalists are being replaced by East Asian Nationalists.

and wasnt it an accide.... hahaha

Nationalist Victimhood replaced Communist Victors.

China's leaders are too thin skinned before its people, but too thick skinned before outsiders. That's why they let protesters attack the Japanese Embassy whenever some Japanese minister visits Yasukuni Shrine, regardless of pragmatic international realtions.

China for the moment is caught in the prison of history. They just can't let go of the past.

[ren0312]

Yep...
Women's beach volleyball

How about Men's besketball, I am hoping Team USA wil take the gold medal.

[Ordie]

Dear Mr. Ordie, this is a current news http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130164

How do you estimate the reality of the CNN report? I guess you be likely to believe it 90%.

I don't know about CNN and I rarely watch it.

However,

There's a good article in the Atlantic Monthy on the issue of the Great Firewall of China by James Fallows.

[ren0312]

Nationalist Victimhood replaced Communist Victors.

China's leaders are too thin skinned before its people, but too thick skinned before outsiders. That's why they let protesters attack the Japanese Embassy whenever some Japanese minister visits Yasukuni Shrine, regardless of pragmatic international realtions.

China for the moment is caught in the prison of history. They just can't let go of the past.

I think it has to do with no peace without justice, I can compare it to a father seeking justice for his daughter who was raped and killed by the son of a powerfull politician, even if it has to take him the rest of his life to do so.

[Hawaii_Light]

Nationalist Victimhood replaced Communist Victors.

China's leaders are too thin skinned before its people, but too thick skinned before outsiders. That's why they let protesters attack the Japanese Embassy whenever some Japanese minister visits Yasukuni Shrine, regardless of pragmatic international realtions.

China for the moment is caught in the prison of history. They just can't let go of the past.

i think you summed up exactly how i have been feeling about the situation perfectly. thank you

[J-10]

I don't know about CNN and I rarely watch it.

However,

There's a good article in the Atlantic Monthy on the issue of the Great Firewall of China by James Fallows.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/fallows-china-censorship


This includes, of course, details from China’s less-than-pristine past—the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, for example, and the Cultural Revolution—as well as current controversies, like the Three Gorges Dam project and the country’s food-safety issues. (During politically sensitive times, the government makes accessing foreign-press Web sites especially difficult.)

Mr. James Fallows's article not so good.

The BBC.com and Wikipedia are blocked.

But the NYTimes.com, www.usatoday.com, www.washingtonpost.com, www.wsj.com, www.latimes.com, www.chicagotribune.com, www.iht.com, www.csmonitor.com, www.nydailynews.com, www.guardian.co.uk, www.mirror.co.uk and so on ... always can be accessed, and in which include all of "for example, and the Cultural Revolution—as well as current controversies, like the Three Gorges Dam project and the country’s food-safety issues."

The Cultural Revolution, the Three Gorges Dam project, the country’s food-safety issues are not taboo discussing topic in China.

[SS-18]

China for the moment is caught in the prison of history. They just can't let go of the past.

I see a lot of comments like that from people who live in USA. If you have almost no history doesn't mean everybody should forget their past.

[Hawaii_Light]

I see a lot of comments like that from people who live in USA. If you have almost no history doesn't mean everybody should forget their past.

there is a difference between forgetting and moving on.
And for such young countries the U.S and Canada have a fair share of history

[9mmRifle]

China's leaders are too thin skinned before its people, but too thick skinned before outsiders. That's why they let protesters attack the Japanese Embassy whenever some Japanese minister visits Yasukuni Shrine, regardless of pragmatic international realtions.



The poop-flinging works both ways, I think you forgot to mention the kamikaze style Bus attack on the Chinese embassy

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8357/3s2drw1.jpg

[randomguy]

This nationalism stuff pisses me off, anyone proud of theyr country is labeled a nationalist except shirtless drunken americans shouting U.S.A!! U.S.A!!! for hours on end

[sreto]

Beijing Olympics, does China really deserve the honor?

No but they deserve to make cheap goods for nearly every western nation. I find it hard when people are complaining about Chinas human rights issues, and yet most of the junk in their house has Made In China written on it. I guess they dont mind cheap goods.

[Zerazax]

No but they deserve to make cheap goods for nearly every western nation. I find it hard when people are complaining about Chinas human rights issues, and yet most of the junk in their house has Made In China written on it. I guess they dont mind cheap goods.

And part of that poor record is also why goods are so cheap. It's easy to complain but where your dollar goes is what matters!

[Hawaii_Light]

This nationalism stuff pisses me off, anyone proud of theyr country is labeled a nationalist except shirtless drunken americans shouting U.S.A!! U.S.A!!! for hours on end


i consider those nationalists as well, i dispise nationalism either way, to me people are people and borders are just lines drawn in the sand and a controling goup of people stealing everyone elses money. its over simplified but im tired of it.

im tired of the USA is the greatest, or the proud to be Canadian. or any of that tripe. proud to be human, maybe i am a humanist, damn spiders think they are all that with their eight.......

[gaijinsamurai]

Well said, Hawaii Light!

[maw]

free Tibet!
didn't the americans boycott the moscow games because of afghanistan? drop the dual standards and start putting real pressure on china.

[Ordie]

No but they deserve to make cheap goods for nearly every western nation. I find it hard when people are complaining about Chinas human rights issues, and yet most of the junk in their house has Made In China written on it. I guess they dont mind cheap goods.

Hey Chinese give us poisioned toys, the US gives China fradulent securities.

I'd say we're even.

[Ordie]

free Tibet!
didn't the americans boycott the moscow games because of afghanistan? drop the dual standards and start putting real pressure on china.

Yeah the the Russians boycotted the LA Games in 1984.

It didn't work.

Let the Chinese put pressure on thier own government. Sooner or later China's political system must evolve to meet the growing demands of its citizens.

If you free Tibet, then it may lead to a Free Taiwan, Free Inner Mongolia, Free East Turkmenistan etc.....

We will have a refugee crisis and ethnic warfare that would make Bosnia and Rwanda a lovefest.

Keep China together. Less problems for the rest of the world.

[sreto]

Hey Chinese give us poisioned toys, the US gives China fradulent securities.

I'd say we're even.

Haha, yeah. Im just saying, the same people that are complaining dont really think that alot of the things they use on a daily basis is made in evil human rights abusing China. Kind of like the vegans who talk about how much resources a pound of beef costs and how much it hurts the environment and then they get in their cars and drive down to the "organic" shop to buy some environment friendly foods, or when they hand out pamphlets which are made out of paper and then talk about the destruction of the rainforests.

[maw]

It didn't work.
what do you mean it didn't work? was our boycott of the soviet olympics supposed to somehow suudenly cause the soviets to abandon afghanistan? get real, of course not. it served to let them know we disapprove and brought attention to the cause.


Let the Chinese put pressure on thier own government. Sooner or later China's political system must evolve to meet the growing demands of its citizens.
real great solution. i can tell you the the tibetans issues aren't on the top 100 list of concerns for the average chinese citizen. if we were to wait around for the chinese political system to evolve i'm afraid tibet would be over run with non native han immigrants and there'd be no one left to care.


If you free Tibet, then it may lead to a Free Taiwan, Free Inner Mongolia, Free East Turkmenistan etc.....
i don't see how the chinese leaving tibet will make the tibetans refugees so i'm not how you came to that conclusion but each case is unique and deserves to be treated so. tibet needs to be returned to the tibetans. they are a unique and distinctive culture that is endemic to their country. the taiwanese are in fact chinese, they split because they didn't want to become communists. tibet needs to be free.


Keep China together. Less problems for the rest of the world.
spoken as a true party member. listen ****bird, it isn't up to you. the future of the tibetan people should be left up to the tibetan people. if you believe in democratic principles and the right to self determination then you should support them, or at a minimum keep your mouth shut instead of spouting off your macro-political drivel. china invaded tibet, this is against all international laws. china suppress dissent, this is against all international laws. china is attempting large scale re population policies, once again, this is against all international laws (un charter and hague convention).

[Calanen]

Only rarely web site IP be blocked, 99.9% is OK.

Sorry, I fell off my chair laughing. Could you please say that again? You wouldnt even let the online game EVE in China. That's how ridiculous the censorship was.

Oh noes...the people are playing evil capitalist game where they pretend to fly spaceships - such enemies of the people must be stopped!

[J-10]

Sorry, I fell off my chair laughing. Could you please say that again? You wouldnt even let the online game EVE in China. That's how ridiculous the censorship was.

Oh noes...the people are playing evil capitalist game where they pretend to fly spaceships - such enemies of the people must be stopped!

About the online game, five years ago, 90%of the online game are imported from foreign countries, Korea, Japan etc. Nowaday Chinese Game Maker try to catch up:

Chinese Game Maker Seeks To Conquer World With Ancient Myth: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/IBD-0001-23786287.htm

[oxxi]

China should be ruled by the Huns again.
Then maybe i will return back there and host the olympics myself

[lenovo]

http://www.freehawaii.org (http://www.freehawaii.org/)

[Ordie]

http://www.freehawaii.org (http://www.freehawaii.org/)

Mahalo.....

[Clayton Gold]

...listen ****bird, it isn't up to you. the future of the tibetan people should be left up to the tibetan people...

Wow, some tough words, but there are two things wrong with this statement:

1) You're just repeating what has been said.


Let the Chinese put pressure on thier own government. Sooner or later China's political system must evolve to meet the growing demands of its citizens.

You may argue that you said Tibetan people, and not Chinese, but considering that Tibet is currently part of China - It seems that you are just splitting hairs for the sake of argument.

2) Unless you're from Tibet, you should follow your own advice, and "leave it up to the Tibetan people".

If you`re that offended to personally attack people over this, perhaps you should get your ass outta your comfy seat, and go confront some Chinese troops in Tibet. Go on now - make a difference, change the world !

[Ordie]

Regardless whether or not Tibet is independent, it must live with the fact that China will always be there. Knowing the Chinese government, they will maintain harmony at all cost even if it includes killing people.

The more China (and Tibet for that matter) becomes integrated with the rest of the world, the more difficult it can maintain a lid on Tibetian "restless natives".

The unlikely ally of the Tibetians are the Chinese themselves. As more Chinese become wealthy, the more demands for transparency and legal reforms of the government. This will be extended to the Tibetians themselves.

[deagle]

politics and sportsmanship/spirit of competition should be a bit separate, though olympics does attract scrutiny. that being said, is any country perfect enough to "deserve" the olympics. ???

[vinny_121_ND]

When I was competing in speedskating, my main goal was making the Olympics. Where it was held didn't matter. Making it did. If some athletes wanted to boycott the olympics, that would be awesome as long as I competed. I couldn't care less about where it was held.

I don't think China deserves the honor of hosting it, but at least it puts the spotlight on them of what's going on. China doesn't care. Media is controlled by the state. You have a blog, u get arrested. Problem is, what can we do? Yesterday, there were violent protests in Tibet. We preach freedom and democracy, and it's the complete opposite there.

[maw]

Regardless whether or not Tibet is independent, it must live with the fact that China will always be there. Knowing the Chinese government, they will maintain harmony at all cost even if it includes killing people.

if your sentiments are based anti-violent principles, then they're noble. if not then i'm not sure what to say, except this, if the us were currently under chinese occupation i'd have a very hard time living "with the fact that China will always be there." i grant the tibetans the same right to fight an occupying force that is supported in the un charter. lucky for everyone involved that the tibetans are a peace loving people.


The more China (and Tibet for that matter) becomes integrated with the rest of the world, the more difficult it can maintain a lid on Tibetian "restless natives".

i agree.


The unlikely ally of the Tibetians are the Chinese themselves. As more Chinese become wealthy, the more demands for transparency and legal reforms of the government. This will be extended to the Tibetians themselves.

i don't share your optimism that the chinese people will ever care one iota about the tibetans right to have their country back. not now and not in a hundred years.

[maw]

Wow, some tough words,
two things. first, you must be new to this internet thing, amirite? second, this is a military oriented forum not a girls scout cookie recipe exchange forum. grow some skin. if i've offended Ordie i'll apologize to him, but i'm perfectly capable of having an honest discourse with him. if a mod thinks i'm being a prick i'll get a kick in the nuts and live with it. but i'm sure as hell not turning it down a couple of notches because of your sensibilities.


but there are two things wrong with this statement:

1) You're just repeating what has been said.

You may argue that you said [I]Tibetan people, and not Chinese, but considering that Tibet is currently part of China - It seems that you are just splitting hairs for the sake of argument.

that's right, i said tibetan people. they have a unique culture that goes back thousands of years that is endemic to tibet. just because china is playing a giant game of repopulation doesn't make the chinese transplants tibetan.
as an apples to apples comparison, if the chinese invaded the us or mooseland for that matter, they'd use the same strategy. would that nullify our or your rights to fight? would dropping a couple of hundred million chinese in canuckistan suddenly make you chinese? that seems to be the path your logic is taking.


2) Unless you're from Tibet, you should follow your own advice, and "leave it up to the Tibetan people".

If you`re that offended to personally attack people over this, perhaps you should get your ass outta your comfy seat, and go confront some Chinese troops in Tibet. Go on now - make a difference, change the world !

no i'm offended when people advocate resistance for us and "just deal with it" for the tibetans. i'm offended when people suggest that the tibetans should not kick up a stink and should instead put their future in the hands of the chinese people and the distant glimmer of hope that political reforms may one day bring. i'm offended when i read about a peaceful protest by monks turns into a bllodbath with over a hundred killed. i'm offended when i see our administration placating beijing by dropping china from the top 10 worst list of human rights abusers just so we can buy cheap crap and sell our treasury bonds to them:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/12/america/rights.php

under international law the tibetan people have the right to resist the chinese occupation. and i'm offended when people say the tibetans shouldn't exercise that right and should instead suck it up and take one for the team because if they get too uppity we might not be able buy junk at walmart or get decent olympics coverage.

[Hawaii_Light]

or when they hand out pamphlets which are made out of paper and then talk about the destruction of the rainforests.

Paper is made from trees that are specificially grown for paper on tree farms, just for your information.

we are all hypocrtical, for the most party inherant human lazyness fuels inherant human hypocrapsy.

But that being said sometimes, even while being hypocritical, we make the world a better place. Even if our human rights are waivering who is to say we cannot lobby for others, or make a bid to the world of the injustices that are being brought on by people, by people whose own greed and misguided disire for power hurts and destroys the lives of people who just want to live as freely as possible and make their own dicisions on which websites they want to visit..

Why cant we speak out against the petrol companies while driving a gas powered car? sure maybe its hypocritical but for **** sake everyone is and if we were all forced to shut up by people with theories like yours then we can never expect to move forward socially.

[Clayton Gold]

two things. first, you must be new to this internet thing, amirite? second, this is a military oriented forum not a girls scout cookie recipe exchange forum. grow some skin. if i've offended Ordie i'll apologize to him, but i'm perfectly capable of having an honest discourse with him. if a mod thinks i'm being a prick i'll get a kick in the nuts and live with it. but i'm sure as hell not turning it down a couple of notches because of your [insert derogatory slur here] sensibilities.

Quite the man of steel you are. I bet you punch logs too ?

Call it what you want, "honest discourse" or whatever; but to others it just looks like someone with little-man syndrome or rage issues.


that's right, i said tibetan people. they have a unique culture that goes back thousands of years that is endemic to tibet. just because china is playing a giant game of repopulation doesn't make the chinese transplants tibetan.
as an apples to apples comparison, if the chinese invaded the us or mooseland for that matter, they'd use the same strategy. would that nullify our or your rights to fight? would dropping a couple of hundred million chinese in canuckistan suddenly make you chinese? that seems to be the path your logic is taking.Great, so you admit you're just repeating what has been said, and arguing semantics for the sake of argument. You dont even know what your argument really is do you ?

If you think some violent uprising is going to be the magic solution for these people, then I suggest you should go there and lead if you're so gung-ho.

Go teach these Tibetans to kick some ass ! Liberation or death right ?


no i'm offended when people advocate resistance for us and "just deal with it" for the tibetans. i'm offended when people suggest that the tibetans should not kick up a stink and should instead put their future in the hands of the chinese people and the distant glimmer of hope that political reforms may one day bring. i'm offended when i read about a peaceful protest by monks turns into a bllodbath with over a hundred killed. i'm offended when i see our administration placating beijing by dropping china from the top 10 worst list of human rights abusers just so we can buy cheap crap and sell our treasury bonds to them:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/12/america/rights.php

under international law the tibetan people have the right to resist the chinese occupation. and i'm offended when people say the tibetans shouldn't exercise that right and should instead suck it up and take one for the team because if they get too uppity we might not be able buy junk at walmart or get decent olympics coverage.

Wow - you're pretty offended. Try to keep 'er cool there, Sparky.

Who said they should "suck it up", or "take one for the team" ? :roll:
Seriously, please quote. Are you delusional, or just enjoy putting words in others' mouths ?

The main argument that I am seeing is that antagonizing China over this, at this time, is not going to do a single thing towards helping solve this problem. If you really feel that it is worth war with China for one country's independence, then feel free; but as it has been stated before - Tibetan independence is a Tibetan problem which should solve itself as China integrates. There is next to nothing that you can do; get over it.

Again, if you're so offended over this - Get off your lazy ass, put down the Cheetos, quit speaking to others' like a 6 year old internet tuff-guy, and go be a Tibetan revolutionary. Seems you`ve got some anger issues to work on, and that may just help.

[jd123]

All bunch of hypcroties. Talking about double standards. Iraq is under US occupation, Palestine is under Israel occupation. Congo is under French occupation. Diaoyu island under Japanese occupation. what Tibet right? an exiled government is no longer a government. It's a puppied agenda. The world is always belong to the powerful and riches, and who has the most gunpowers. Take the olympic out of your foul spirited political agenda. It's for the thousands of athletes who don't care where it is held. It is for the sportsmanship, not for your idiot's political showmanship.

Anybody who says china doesn't deserve to host it, go back and take a look yourself in the mirror, unless you are god; you pretty much cheated, lied, murdered, lusted like everyone else. Stop pointing fingers at someone's else back when your back is filled with guilt. You hyprocrites.

There are tibetans who want to be part of the china, why don't your guys talk with them. Hundreds of idiots don't represent thousands of majorities.
It's really an old story people want to put new colors in. The world is spining the way should be for a reason.

[CPL Trevoga]

I think a lot of people in the West are culturally illiterate and that causes alot of problems. Chinese are ancient civilization and they take pride in that fact. To teach China "human rights" is downright insulting to them.