Would-be 'racist mayor' wants Aborigines out

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Would-be 'racist mayor' wants Aborigines out

By Tanya Chilcott
March 13, 2008 12:10am

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Mayoral candidate targeted indigenous families
Wanted indigenous families moved out of shire
Called Stolen Generations a myth A MAYORAL candidate who wants to be elected a "racist mayor" has called for Aborigines to be relocated from his southwest Queensland shire.

Kevin Wise, 66, has single-handedly ignited racial tensions in Cunnamulla after he distributed 100 inflammatory flyers quoting his plans to replace indigenous families with "Vietnamese peasant families".
In the flyer he pledges to call on "the Federal Government to offer 25 indigenous families $50,000 each to relocate anywhere away from the Paroo Shire" and for their places to be allocated to 25 non-English speaking Vietnamese families".

"I guarantee that within that five years, these families will have advanced this shire's wealth and future prosperity out of all proportion to that achieved to date . . ." the flyer reads.

Tell us what you think below

The man who wants to be "an elected racist Mayor for Paroo" told The Courier-Mail he deliberately asked for indigenous homes to get the flyers.

"I let it be known that I preferred them to go to Aboriginal households so that it wouldn't appear that I was running gutless and I was trying to sectionalise the receivership of the documents," he said.

He calls Cunnamulla a "dead in the water" community and the Stolen Generations a myth.

Queensland Anti-Discrimination Commissioner Susan Booth said the comments were "hurtful" and "incredibly stereotyped".

Ms Booth said she could not comment further in case the flyer became the subject of a complaint and possible action.

Cunnamulla resident Maureen McKellar held back tears as she spoke of the devastation she felt when she read the comments and called Mr Wise a racist.

Another resident, John Mitchell, said the comments had "stirred up a hornets nest" and the community was now depending on Aboriginal academic Stephen Hagan to file a complaint with the Anti-Discrimination Commission.

Mr Wise yesterday maintained he was not racist.

"Every bugger in town is saying what I am saying out loud, but they won't say it themselves - arguing about the dead-end Aboriginal industry and their effects on town."

Mr Wise said he wanted Vietnamese families to move in because they were hard working and would tend market gardens in the community.

"Aboriginals are certainly not going to put in the hard yards to establish market gardens or anything," he said.

Mayor Ian Tonkin denied his community was racist and said Mr Wise should apologise.

Mr Hagan said he carefully considered giving publicity to Mr Wise's vilification but said the circulation of racist comments had to stop.

He plans to complain to the Anti-Discrimination Commission

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23366610-421,00.html

[vinny_121_ND]

Why is there racism in australia? It's a big issue there for some reason.

[rolls]

Why is there racism in australia? It's a big issue there for some reason.

Well i know the thing that gets up most non-indigenous folks noses is that if you have to go for Welfare there is still a seperate line for Black and Whites, with a different system for both which is just BS.

I think the Mayor has stirred up his own hornets nest but i have to pay him the money for his single comment "Aboriginals are certainly not going to put in the hard yards to establish market gardens or anything". Of which i will personally atest that people of Asian decent are some of the hardest workers in this country.

Now please note this is not all Aboroginal people there ALOT (and i stress that) Alot of Good hard working people out there who don't think the same way as SOME of the Indigenous communities.

Up here they sniff petrol, sleep in the parks, collect welfare for doing nothing, there Children get paid to go to school and the list goes on an on.

Id have to say i don't entirely agree with this mayor simply relocating undesireables is not the answer to anything. But i would be willing to bet that the Vietnamese folk would certainly bring more prosperity then a bunch of lazy-dole bludging yobs.

This isnt the case everywhere but it really does amaze me when these types of indigenous people getting things for free and squandering them.

I remember a story my Grandfather once told me of how they went and built practically a whole community of houses shops etc... Within a year the houses were not fit for a dog to live in and most of the wood had been used for firewood.

Through and through they need a good kick in the arse and need to stop blaming "the white man" for there problems. It simply amazes me that society as a whole continues to HAVE to put up with this.

Maybe i see a little more of the bad side of it up here in Nth Queensland, but the fact of the matter of some of these communities dont contribute jack **** to society as a whole and they get paid for it.

Im sure some one will blast me for being racist but i dont really care, tell it to my Islander/Chinese/Indian buddies.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Well i know the thing that gets up most non-indigenous folks noses is that if you have to go for Welfare there is still a seperate line for Black and Whites, with a different system for both which is just BS.

Believe it or not the system that Aboriginals have to go through is a lot stricter then the system white people go through. I've been through both systems. (Be suprised what ticking a box does) Generally speaking before the CDEP system was scrapped Indigenous people had to go through the CDEP to get benefits. This meant either going to a course or out working 2-3 days a week. On the other hand white people wait 6 months before "Work for the Dole" kicks. Now tell me this. How do Indigenous people have it easier?

I think the Mayor has stirred up his own hornets nest but i have to pay him the money for his single comment "Aboriginals are certainly not going to put in the hard yards to establish market gardens or anything". Of which i will personally atest that people of Asian decent are some of the hardest workers in this country.

Up until 50 years ago most Ingenious people outside the cities either lived off the land or lived in reservations. There is no culture of working hard. They were hunter gathers or they received government handouts. The Asian peoples this guy is talking about have the "Market Garden" culture and have had it for thousands of years. You can't just expect people in 200 years of being stripped from their land, culture and in some cases exterminated to adopt straight away to a new way of life. Let alone the huge language barrier that exists in rural communities and English speaking people

Now please note this is not all Aboroginal people there ALOT (and i stress that) Alot of Good hard working people out there who don't think the same way as SOME of the Indigenous communities.

This is because of what has occured. Some communities were left alone and it has only been in the last 20 years that they have felt the full effects of white settlement. One guy I know from WA had never seen a white person until 1984. Can't expect Indigenous people like these to drop everything.

Up here they sniff petrol, sleep in the parks, collect welfare for doing nothing, there Children get paid to go to school and the list goes on an on.

Perhaps this wouldn't be a problem if they still had access to their traditional hunting lands, still practiced their own religion and handled their own justice systems. Remember these remote communities are farming communities. Gone are the roos, emus and native vegetation that they used to sustain themselves. Let alone proper water access.

Id have to say i don't entirely agree with this mayor simply relocating undesireables is not the answer to anything. But i would be willing to bet that the Vietnamese folk would certainly bring more prosperity then a bunch of lazy-dole bludging yobs.

Of course they would and I've already written why this would happen. Even commerce is new to Indigenous people. Many now still do not know the proper understanding of money and everything is shared.

This isnt the case everywhere but it really does amaze me when these types of indigenous people getting things for free and squandering them.

What are they supposed to do. Leave their traditional lands and move to the cities to look for work? Trust me Indigenous people coming from the Territory, moving to Sydney generally last a few months before they end up in bars. They simply can not handle it. Not because they are bludgers but simply because it's not in their culture to do so.

I remember a story my Grandfather once told me of how they went and built practically a whole community of houses shops etc... Within a year the houses were not fit for a dog to live in and most of the wood had been used for firewood.

In the meantime where is the police? And this is not restricted by race either. Where I reside is the most impoverished suburb in Australia. Guess even whites do this.

Through and through they need a good kick in the arse and need to stop blaming "the white man" for there problems. It simply amazes me that society as a whole continues to HAVE to put up with this.

How about we give a kick up the backside the squatters in the 19th and early 20th century who took their lands? Chained the males together by their necks on roundups to put them in reservations and destroyed family units. I could give my families history if you want.

Maybe i see a little more of the bad side of it up here in Nth Queensland, but the fact of the matter of some of these communities dont contribute jack **** to society as a whole and they get paid for it.

They contribute more to this country then anybody. The fact that these communities still exist is evidence to their resolve in trying to fix their situation. Many communities are starting to go back to their old ways and fighting back against the Anglo-Saxon culture.

Im sure some one will blast me for being racist but i dont really care, tell it to my Islander/Chinese/Indian buddies.

I can understand where you are coming from. But to be fair. Considering what Indigenous people have gone through how can you expect things to be any different.

One of the oldest unchanged cultures in the world was nearly destroyed in the space of 100 years. We didn't treat them as people until 40 years ago. Even ones that served this nation proud in uniform.

[rolls]

I can understand where you are coming from. But to be fair. Considering what Indigenous people have gone through how can you expect things to be any different.

One of the oldest unchanged cultures in the world was nearly destroyed in the space of 100 years. We didn't treat them as people until 40 years ago. Even ones that served this nation proud in uniform.

Yeh i agree with you 100% there mate.


Believe it or not the system that Aboriginals have to go through is a lot stricter then the system white people go through. I've been through both systems. (Be suprised what ticking a box does) Generally speaking before the CDEP system was scrapped Indigenous people had to go through the CDEP to get benefits. This meant either going to a course or out working 2-3 days a week. On the other hand white people wait 6 months before "Work for the Dole" kicks. Now tell me this. How do Indigenous people have it easier?

I see what your saying it just frustrates me that this day in age when everyone is equal we still have a 2 seperate systems operating.

In this particular situation the Mayor and the people need a good kick up the arse. Is it lack of Cultural identity that is the spawn of this problem or lack of leadership through aboriginal elders? I mean obviously if there this type of problem exists there must be a few who can sit back and say "ok something needs to change".

But ill stand by my quote that rellocation is not the answer. It would be a great shame to be 20 years on from now and to still suffer the problems of yesteryear and today.

[ren0312]

Racists would be opposed to non White people moving in rather than encouraging them to move in right? Seems more like a case of painting too broad a brush to me rather than White Supremacy, OTOH the Viet Namese are also going to have trouble integrating if they can not speak English.

[T3ngu]

This is ****e, and i seriously don't think he will be elected. He wanted his 15 minutes of fame, and sadly, has gotten more than this.

Just note he is not mayor, just wants to be.

[sreto]

Racists would be opposed to non White people moving in rather than encouraging them to move in right? Seems more like a case of painting too broad a brush to me rather than White Supremacy, OTOH the Viet Namese are also going to have trouble integrating if they can not speak English.

Yes, because racism only consists of white people discriminating everybody else.

[LordTyphus]

Why is there racism in australia? It's a big issue there for some reason.

Less racism than in the US, and not more racist than Canada, I would say. This article exudes sensationalism from every corner. NT is the most backward territory of Australia, akin to the US's Texas. Compared to the Australian states, it's like a sparsely populated third world country.

[Calanen]

Why is there racism in australia? It's a big issue there for some reason.

There is a lot less here, than in most places around the world. We are just more likely to doubt ourselves and allow debate about the topic.

[bruiserau]

"Even commerce is new to Indigenous people. Many now still do not know the proper understanding of money and everything is shared."

That's just about as narrow minded as what this 'mayor wanna be' is saying. You're acting like these people are savages and have no capacity to learn or adapt to new surroundings/situations. That's why the human race is superior to all other animals, we have the ability to adapt and evolve to new surroundings to ensure our survival. So don't say these people (Black/White/Yellow I don't care) can't fit in with modern society through no fault of their own, they are not animals, they are not lazy by nature (as you say), they are only lazy because in todays society (the society they apparently can't understand), they can afford to be because the people who actually contribute to our crazy society will sustain them.

Don't guilt trip me into thinking I owe poor underpriveledged Aboriginal (or any race for that matter) anything, I am responisble for my own actions and my own life, maybe it's about time they should start to be as well.

*I am referring to the groups mentioned in the story not races as a whole so don't take my words out of context.

Rant Out.

[wagon]

On the street I live on... We have a real mixture of black and white. The ****holes two doors up from me are white - and I would like to see them gone! (too many parties, fights, cops all hours, etc.). We have lots of Aboriginal people in the street - even next door. (BTW, the neighbours next door give no trouble at all, they work and are 'normal') What saddens me most is the parents of many of the Aboriginal kids in the area don't insist their kids go to school - so repeating the culture of welfare dependance in the new generation. I mean, if they don't have even a minimum of literacy and numeracy how will they know if the dole office are ripping them off? haha

I think it is tragic that a whole people and their rich culture is disappearing in a sea of alcohol and drugs. White man has, to an extent, caused the problem and there have been many well intentioned 'fixes'.

I don't agree with that potential 'mayor'.

However, I do agree with 'quaranteening' welfare payments of parents who don't send their kids to school or are not looking after them properly BUT this should apply to EVERYONE regardless of race.

My 3 cents worth.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

"Even commerce is new to Indigenous people. Many now still do not know the proper understanding of money and everything is shared."

That's just about as narrow minded as what this 'mayor wanna be' is saying. You're acting like these people are savages and have no capacity to learn or adapt to new surroundings/situations. That's why the human race is superior to all other animals, we have the ability to adapt and evolve to new surroundings to ensure our survival. So don't say these people (Black/White/Yellow I don't care) can't fit in with modern society through no fault of their own, they are not animals, they are not lazy by nature (as you say), they are only lazy because in todays society (the society they apparently can't understand), they can afford to be because the people who actually contribute to our crazy society will sustain them.

Don't guilt trip me into thinking I owe poor underpriveledged Aboriginal (or any race for that matter) anything, I am responisble for my own actions and my own life, maybe it's about time they should start to be as well.

*I am referring to the groups mentioned in the story not races as a whole so don't take my words out of context.

Rant Out.

What I'm saying man is that you can't expect a group of people who for thousands of years to be able to adapt to the standards that we ourselves live by.

This continent has been settled for 220 years. 150 of which Indigenous people have been exterminated, had children taken away, been forced to live in abject poverty, been excluded from society and have lost most of their culture. And now we expect them to live by the standards that Europeans have set themselves?

As I said I personally have met a Indigenous bloke who had never seen a white guy until 1984. How can we expect someone like him to live "our way"

I just find it pretty rich that people somehow expect a race of people who for 150 years were treated as animals (actual government policy) to live to our standards.

Take my family for example.

Our group are from the Newcastle area. 2nd oldest city in Australia. Evidence now suggests that our group were just starting to move away from hunter gathering to establishing permanent settlements at the time of settlement.

We had also established a hierarchy that moved away from "elders" to a group controlled by a single "elder". Not to dissimilar to a royal family.

Basically real progress was being made socially and technologically.

Fast forward 100 years only my Great Great Grandmother and Father were left who happened to be cousins. Yes inbreeding to keep the race going. By this point they had adopted Christianity, went to sunday church, My great grandmother who was an only child went to school and they ran their own small market garden that was sold at the local market. They also owned by the European term a large tract of land south of Newcastle that today is Swansea. Where talking houses worth millions, lakefront, beachfront property.

Anyway my great grandmother was forcibly removed from her parents, adopted out to an ex African slave immigrant from the states so when my great great grand parents passed away they could take the land. (all documented by the way. More then happy to scan the official government records for you.)

Was any compensation provided? Our family lost our entire history, culture, land and was wiped out in one small swoop. For over 100 years we did not know who we were, what race we were or how we came to be.

By the time I came on the scene I'm white, yet a lot of my relatives are as black as the ace of spades or are pretty tanned. We have a family gathering I'm the only white kid. It was pretty tough. I'd invite mates over to swim in my grandmothers pool. My grandmother is black do you think my mates stuck around?

come early 90's

My mums cousin His black (electrical engineer). His spent the past 5 years going over the family history and kept running into dead ends. He actually had to go through the Freedom of Information act to gain access to government archives. In his own words they were in the "Never to be released" cabinet. He spent 18 months before he built up the courage before he came and told us. It's also now torn apart the hole in the family AGAIN.

So due to events beyond our control our family has been torn apart again.

Back to my Great Grandmother. When she grew up and started raising a family she either kept the secret to her grave or simply did not know who she was. She passed away at 101. In any event 101 years of both the government and herself of keeping a secret preventing us knowing who we are.

By the time we had a family gathering over the issue. Everyone is dumbfounded, we all felt lost. Our world has been turned upside down.

Granted our family has adopted to the changing landscape. We have a scientist, a few tradesman, engineers, business owner. We were also fortunate that my great grandmother was kept in the Newcastle region.

[sreto]

On the street I live on... We have a real mixture of black and white. The ****holes two doors up from me are white - and I would like to see them gone! (too many parties, fights, cops all hours, etc.). We have lots of Aboriginal people in the street - even next door. (BTW, the neighbours next door give no trouble at all, they work and are 'normal') What saddens me most is the parents of many of the Aboriginal kids in the area don't insist their kids go to school - so repeating the culture of welfare dependance in the new generation. I mean, if they don't have even a minimum of literacy and numeracy how will they know if the dole office are ripping them off? haha

I think it is tragic that a whole people and their rich culture is disappearing in a sea of alcohol and drugs. White man has, to an extent, caused the problem and there have been many well intentioned 'fixes'.


What you are talking about is patterns of inequality. A disadvantaged parent was usually also disadvantaged during his or her youth, regardless or race or culture, that disadvantage will be passed on to his or her children. Look at the statistics of government schools compared to the statistics of independent schools. The independent school kids will most likely pass year 12 and be offered a university spot, thus becoming a professional and thus repeating the cycle again. The opposite can be said for the poor, who will most likely drop out of school, do a labouring job and keep the cycle going. The children of the rich have a disadvantage even before they enter schooling because their parents can actually afford to give them the best in educational learning and will put a higher emphasis on education. Thats not to say that there arent any cases of the poor becoming rich or educated, its just that the facts are, if your grandfather was poor, and your father is poor you are going to be poor unless you work your ass of even then circumstances such as low funding, medical care, substance abuse in your community will prevent you. Also there is a big difference between the Aboriginal communities living out in the bush, opposed to city dwelling Aboriginals, different mentality and all.

[ren0312]

A. O. Neville

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Auber Octavius Neville (20 October (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_20) 1875 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1875)–18 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_18) 1954 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954)) was a public servant, notably Chief Protector of Aborigines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protector_of_Aborigines), in Western Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_O_Neville#_note-0)
Born in Northumberland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northumberland), England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England), Neville immigrated to Victoria, Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_%28Australia%29) as a child. In 1897 he went from Victoria to Western Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia) and joined the civil service there, quickly rising through the ranks. Neville became the state's second appointment, in 1915, to the role of the Chief Protector of Aborigines. During the next quarter-century, he presided over the controversial policy of removing Aboriginal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aborigine) children from their parents.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_O_Neville#_note-1) In 1936, Neville became the Commissioner for Native Affairs, a post he held until his retirement in 1940.
Opposition to this practice, later termed the Stolen Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation), was advocated at the time, but his role as Commissioner was never persistently challenged. The period of cultural assimilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation), attempted during Neville's administration, had followed an era of direct conflict with indigenous Australians. The political support and funding given to Neville was slight and his capacity to improve their circumstances was restricted. Open hostility was still expressed, in public and parliament, and violence in more remote regions was continuing unabated. Many indigenous peoples became impoverished, especially by dislocation, as the population and development of the state increased. The Commission were given the responsibility for these people, who did not have political rights, and Neville sought to improve the circumstances in which they lived.
Neville believed that biological absorption was the key to 'uplifting the Native race.' Speaking before the Moseley Royal Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moseley_Royal_Commission), which investigated the administration of Aboriginals in 1934, he defended the policies of forced settlement, removing children from parents, surveillance, discipline and punishment, arguing that

they have to be protected against themselves whether they like it or not. They cannot remain as they are. The sore spot requires the application of the surgeon's knife for the good of the patient, and probably against the patient's will.
Neville also protested that children had not been removed indiscriminately, insisting that

the children who have been removed as wards of the Chief Protector have been removed because I desired to be satisfied that the conditions surrounding their upbringing were satisfactory, which they certainly were not.
Neville continued to actively promote his views and, towards the end of his career, he published Australia's Coloured Minority, a text outlining his plan for the biological absorption of aboriginal people into white Australia. The book contained a defence of his policy, but also an admission that the Aborigines had been harmed by European intervention. For this reason, he said, more must be done to assist them:

I make no apologies for writing the book, because there are things which need to be said. So few of our own people as a whole are aware of the position [of the coloured people of Australia]. Yet we have had the coloured man amongst us for a hundred years or more. He has died in his hundreds, nay thousands, in pain, misery and squalor, and through avoidable ill-health. Innumerable little children have perished through neglect and ignorance. The position, in some vital respects, is not much better today than it was fifty years ago. Man is entitled to a measure of happiness in his life. Yet most of these people have never known real happiness. Some are never likely to know it. The causes of their condition are many. Mainly it is not their fault, it is ours, just as it lies with us to put the matter right.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_O_Neville#_note-2)
Neville was a notable resident of Darlington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington%2C_Western_Australia) and was a regular user of the passenger railway service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Railway_%28Western_Australia%29) which closed a few months before his death. He died in Perth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth%2C_Western_Australia), and was buried in Karrakatta Cemetery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karrakatta_Cemetery)

A view from the other side of the aisle.

[Eztyga]

I can understand where you are coming from. But to be fair. Considering what Indigenous people have gone through how can you expect things to be any different.

One of the oldest unchanged cultures in the world was nearly destroyed in the space of 100 years. We didn't treat them as people until 40 years ago. Even ones that served this nation proud in uniform.

They should think themselves lucky. If the Dutch, Portuguese or Spanish had got here first, there would have been really fvcked.

I lived in the NT for many years, and to be honest they are their own worse enemy and blaming white Australians is a cop out.
And there is a huge difference in attitude between the urban aboriginals who want a hand-out for everything and those that live traditionally. I used to go fishing with the elders out at Perrin Islands and they didn't give two fvcks for the 'town abos' (their words).

Ezy

[ren0312]

They should think themselves lucky. If the Dutch, Portuguese or Spanish had got here first, there would have been really fvcked.

I lived in the NT for many years, and to be honest they are their own worse enemy and blaming white Australians is a cop out.
And there is a huge difference in attitude between the urban aboriginals who want a hand-out for everything and those that live traditionally. I used to go fishing with the elders out at Perrin Islands and they didn't give two fvcks for the 'town abos' (their words).

Ezy

What are you talking about, as far as I know, the Dutch, Portuguese, and Spanish do not have a policy of exterminating the natives down to the last man, I should know, the Philipppines was once a Spanish colony also, and while they were not as benevolent a colonial master as the Americans, they were not Leopold II either.

[wagon]

What annoys me is 'poor unfortunates' of any racial persuasion get given opportunities (maybe not as many) yet they don't always take what is offered - this applies particularly to those in urban areas where education and such is plentiful. And then they bitch and complain when they go nowhere.

[Eztyga]

What are you talking about, as far as I know, the Dutch, Portuguese, and Spanish do not have a policy of exterminating the natives down to the last man, I should know, the Philipppines was once a Spanish colony also, and while they were not as benevolent a colonial master as the Americans, they were not Leopold II either.

Aztecs ring any bells...:roll:

Or the Boers treatment of blacks in Africa.

Ezy

[Calanen]

Aztecs ring any bells...:roll:

Or the Boers treatment of blacks in Africa.

All the endless sorry stuff just means none of us move forward.

[scorpy1]

My ex's family comes from Cunumulla and there is only a population of 1,600 people, many of which live miles out of town on large properties (ranches). This is a very small snapshot and I wish people that have never been there would get off their arses and go and live in places like Bourke and Walgett NSW, Katherine NT and a few other far off places. These towns are a zillion miles from any major Capitol City and people that sit in Ivory towers in the big smoke or have only visited for a fleeting time while they fill up their cars and get the F**K out of Dodge should hold their opinions (IMHO) and stop pulling out the Stolen generation and government apologies as a reason to call the whole of Australia racist. The bottom line is that many of these people live off welfare and until they are no longer dependant on that we shall always problems and those problems are violence, drinking and drugs!! I dare you to go and drink in the Koori pub in Bourke.
PS: If you want racists try being of Chinese decent and live in Malaysia or of Indian decent and live in Fiji....good luck.
Endeth the Rant

[Rudolph]

Aztecs ring any bells...:roll:

Or the Boers treatment of blacks in Africa.

Ezy

Or the British treatment of the Kikuyu 1952-1960. Or the French in North-Africa.... We're all to blame. Surely racism is nothing more than the primitive protective mechanism against the unknown and potentially dangerous? What can I say?? These issues are far from being solved, 100's of years possibly until the general third world person is middle class.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Well how are we to fix the problem?

Extermination, removing children, confiscating lands and obviousely throwing money at the issue. All have been tried and all have failed.

Going from this
http://www.janesoceania.com/australia_europeans/aboriginals_1906.jpg

To this

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/75093294.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193BEA130A50EB9E8B41312A534031FA60B284831B75F48EF45

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200710/r195662_743800.jpg

http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/palmriots.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/06/26/jtelders_wideweb__470x333,0.jpg

A small example of the conditions Indigenous people live in.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Minardiau/Sydney_Harbour_Bridge_at_Night_Aust.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Minardiau/Melbourne.jpg

Something is not right here. We have communities that are in worse conditions then freaking Africa.

[Rudolph]

Min,

You seem like a great guy. But sorry, no one is gonna help those people. People are selfish...

[playtym]

...while they were not as benevolent a colonial master as the Americans...

By "benevolent" do you mean, kind, caring, compassionate or generous?

I'm sure the American Indians probably don't think so. :roll:

OK, maybe they were generous when it came to handing out smallpox infested blankets.

[Eztyga]

My ex's family comes from Cunumulla and there is only a population of 1,600 people, many of which live miles out of town on large properties (ranches). This is a very small snapshot and I wish people that have never been there would get off their arses and go and live in places like Bourke and Walgett NSW, Katherine NT and a few other far off places. These towns are a zillion miles from any major Capitol City and people that sit in Ivory towers in the big smoke or have only visited for a fleeting time while they fill up their cars and get the F**K out of Dodge should hold their opinions (IMHO) and stop pulling out the Stolen generation and government apologies as a reason to call the whole of Australia racist. The bottom line is that many of these people live off welfare and until they are no longer dependant on that we shall always problems and those problems are violence, drinking and drugs!! I dare you to go and drink in the Koori pub in Bourke.
PS: If you want racists try being of Chinese decent and live in Malaysia or of Indian decent and live in Fiji....good luck.
Endeth the Rant

Yeah, most people who have an opinion on this have never been to any of these communities. They live in Sydney, Canberra or Melbourne and don't know **** because they have never been beyond their cafe latte society.

Min, why the fvck don't you post some shots of Macquarie Fields or Blacktown showing the poverty there, truely shining lights of that sh#thole Sydney. Or the white trash communities south of Frankston, Melbourne.

Ezy

[Eztyga]

What are you talking about, as far as I know, the Dutch, Portuguese, and Spanish do not have a policy of exterminating the natives down to the last man, I should know, the Philipppines was once a Spanish colony also, and while they were not as benevolent a colonial master as the Americans, they were not Leopold II either.

Yeah, is this an example of the 'benevolent' behavior of Americans?

[woodduck]

The bloke who wants to be mayor is a racist pr!ck who does not deserve to hold power at any level.
Its 2008 and f-wits like him will keep us in the past.
Its time to realise that we are ALL aussies and treat each other equally.

[Eztyga]

The bloke who wants to be mayor is a racist pr!ck who does not deserve to hold power at any level.
Its 2008 and f-wits like him will keep us in the past.
Its time to realise that we are ALL aussies and treat each other equally.

Sure, that would work great if everyone wanted to be treated with equality.

Its not us keeping them in the past.

[woodduck]

Sure, that would work great if everyone wanted to be treated with equality.

Its not us keeping them in the past.


Oh yes i know that.
What i said goes both ways. Same rules for everyone.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Min, why the fvck don't you post some shots of Macquarie Fields or Blacktown showing the poverty there, truely shining lights of that sh#thole Sydney. Or the white trash communities south of Frankston, Melbourne.

Ezy

I live in a suburb of Newcastle that makes those places look like ****ing Vaucluse. (richest suburb in Sydney)

I'm not some rich smart ass with a holier then though attitude. I've experienced poverty first hand. I grew up in it. My old man had to work his ass off putting in 16 hour shifts 3 days a week to support us. My grandparents were never well off.

I'm the same. Hard working blue collar type. Yes for the past 6 years I've been an office bumb but I've always maintained my blue collar values. Much to the detriment of my own career mind you.

I just find it outrageous that we can build cities like Melbourne and Sydney yet have people living in worse conditions then anyplace in Africa.

John Howard was forever going on about Australia being a country where people get a fair go. Well it's about time everyone starts getting a ****ing fair go.

[Eztyga]

I live in a suburb of Newcastle that makes those places look like ****ing Vaucluse. (richest suburb in Sydney)

I'm not some rich smart ass with a holier then though attitude. I've experienced poverty first hand. I grew up in it. My old man had to work his ass off putting in 16 hour shifts 3 days a week to support us. My grandparents were never well off.

I'm the same. Hard working blue collar type. Yes for the past 6 years I've been an office bumb but I've always maintained my blue collar values. Much to the detriment of my own career mind you.

I just find it outrageous that we can build cities like Melbourne and Sydney yet have people living in worse conditions then anyplace in Africa.

John Howard was forever going on about Australia being a country where people get a fair go. Well it's about time everyone starts getting a ****ing fair go.

So did I, now I live in Potts Point with a harbour view, and my neighbours hate me because I drive a V8 ute and were flannos. I got off my arse, and with very little education, made "something of myself", whatever that is supposed to mean. Therefore I have little or no sympathy for those who will not help themselves, despite my own working class background.

There is equality for everyone in Australia, you can be equally rich, or equally poor.

[vinny_121_ND]

PS: If you want racists try being of Chinese decent and live in Malaysia or of Indian decent and live in Fiji....good luck.
Endeth the Rant

Sorry, scorpy, Can you elaborate on that?

Minardiau, I don't know what to say. That's something I never think I would ever hear of. All Aussies deserve a fair go. I never trusted that howard guy.

[ren0312]

By "benevolent" do you mean, kind, caring, compassionate or generous?

I'm sure the American Indians probably don't think so. :roll:

OK, maybe they were generous when it came to handing out smallpox infested blankets.

How about reading a Philippine history textbook before commenting, I'm from here so I know the impacts of American colonialism on my country, what do you know about my country sitting from a place thousands of miles away.

[ren0312]

Yeah, is this an example of the 'benevolent' behavior of Americans?

Well the American gave us public shcooling and improved sanitation, and a very efficient civil service, even President Quezon begrudgingly admitted that the Americans ran the Philippines very well during the time when the Philippines was still a colony of America, and they sure ran it better than our politicians are doing now, when the Americans left the Philippines was the second largest economy in Asia after Japan, where are we now, most of the abuses committed by the Americans were during the time when they were still fighting the Filipinos during the Philippine Revolution, after that they were generally very benevolent towards the Filipinos, though in a patronizing kind of way.

[Eztyga]

Well the American gave us public shcooling and improved sanitation, and a very efficient civil service, even President Quezon begrudgingly admitted that the Americans ran the Philippines very well during the time when the Philippines was still a colony of America, and they sure ran it better than our politicians are doing now, when the Americans left the Philippines was the second largest economy in Asia after Japan, where are we now, most of the abuses committed by the Americans were during the time when they were still fighting the Filipinos during the Philippine Revolution, after that they were generally very benevolent towards the Filipinos, though in a patronizing kind of way.

Are you channeling a Monty Python skit? :)

Ezy

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

So did I, now I live in Potts Point with a harbour view, and my neighbours hate me because I drive a V8 ute and were flannos. I got off my arse, and with very little education, made "something of myself", whatever that is supposed to mean. Therefore I have little or no sympathy for those who will not help themselves, despite my own working class background.

There is equality for everyone in Australia, you can be equally rich, or equally poor.

But where these people live there is hardly any schools or hospitals and other government services.

You can't expect these people to get up and move to a capitol city. It doesn't work. Redfern is an example of that.

[woodduck]

But where these people live there is hardly any schools or hospitals and other government services.

You can't expect these people to get up and move to a capitol city. It doesn't work. Redfern is an example of that.


Min your right, there is sfa in these places so how can we expect doctors and teachers to go there?

I go to all sorts of places in the middle of aus for work and it isnt an easy thing to do, its even worse when there is nothing there.

This isnt just a problem for aborigines, anyone living in outback aus has these problems. As long as we all live on the coast inland aus will suffer.

Perhaps we need a vegas in the middle:)

Its going to be a big issue for a very long time yet.

[T3ngu]

Woodduck, yes no faciltiies doesn't help. But, aboriginals are given many things that the average joe isnt, particularily with regards to housing, dedicated legal and health services and vehicles.

The management of these is the problem, not that the money isn't being spent.

I have many examples of what I have seen and heard, but this is not the place for them.

Needless to say, there is a problem, but its not nessecarily one of underfunding.

I was avoiding posting here, but needed to add 0.02c.

[woodduck]

Woodduck, yes no faciltiies doesn't help. But, aboriginals are given many things that the average joe isnt, particularily with regards to housing, dedicated legal and health services and vehicles.

The management of these is the problem, not that the money isn't being spent.

I have many examples of what I have seen and heard, but this is not the place for them.

Needless to say, there is a problem, but its not nessecarily one of underfunding.

I was avoiding posting here, but needed to add 0.02c.


x2
Ive been treading very lightly through this thread.

I spent the first 10years of my life living in Mount Druitt (syd) If you have been there you know that there is a strong aboriginal presence there.

I also spent a few years doing maintenance for the housing comission in syd. I know exactly what happens to the homes and facilities that have been supplyed. Ive also been to rural aus and seen the same.

I learnt many many years ago that you cant help people that wont help themselves.

But i still like to think that it isnt a lost cause.

[ren0312]

Are you channeling a Monty Python skit? :)

Ezy

Have you ever read anything about the colonization of the Philippine Islands by the United States besides your high school history textbooks, I actually live here you know.

[Eztyga]

Have you ever read anything about the colonization of the Philippine Islands by the United States besides your high school history textbooks, I actually live here you know.

I was being glib you fvck-knuckle...

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-09.htm

And I have actually worked there, not the same thing I know, but gives you a feel for the country once you have been there a while.

Ezy

[LRPV]

There is a lot less here, than in most places around the world. We are just more likely to doubt ourselves and allow debate about the topic.


Absolutely correct.

[Curtis E. Bear]

Woodduck, yes no faciltiies doesn't help. But, aboriginals are given many things that the average joe isnt, particularily with regards to housing, dedicated legal and health services and vehicles.

The management of these is the problem, not that the money isn't being spent.

I have many examples of what I have seen and heard, but this is not the place for them.

Needless to say, there is a problem, but its not nessecarily one of underfunding.

I was avoiding posting here, but needed to add 0.02c.

Thank fvck. Finally someone with a bit of sense.

[cx2115]

Less racism than in the US, and not more racist than Canada, I would say. This article exudes sensationalism from every corner. NT is the most backward territory of Australia, akin to the US's Texas. Compared to the Australian states, it's like a sparsely populated third world country.
Territorian here. Got some facts to back that one up mate? Or do I just call you a know-nothing tw*t and leave it at that?



Woodduck, yes no faciltiies doesn't help. But, aboriginals are given many things that the average joe isnt, particularily with regards to housing, dedicated legal and health services and vehicles.

The management of these is the problem, not that the money isn't being spent.

I have many examples of what I have seen and heard, but this is not the place for them.

Needless to say, there is a problem, but its not nessecarily one of underfunding.

I was avoiding posting here, but needed to add 0.02c.

Not to mention mining royalties; at least in the NT.

[Eztyga]

Territorian here. Got some facts to back that one up mate? Or do I just call you a know-nothing tw*t and leave it at that?




Not to mention mining royalties; at least in the NT.

Mate, again it is a case of southern urban dwellers that have no fvcking idea.

Example: Mining company comes in and pays elders 10 million dollars for the mining rights. The elders then distribute the funds as they see fit and it is rarely an even distribution. It is only the families that they like that get any money, the rest of the tribe is paid off with a 4 by 4 vehicle and a couple of cartons of beer. The elders blow the money or get poor financial advice. As soon as one or more famillies 'strikes it rich', their 'cousins' come from far and wide to bleed off them. As soon as the money runs out, so do they.

So instead of that money being put back into the tribe and local infrastructure, it is wasted. Then they still expect the government to help them without working for it or doing anything for it, despite the fact that a private company has paid money out and given jobs to the aboriginals as part of the agreement.

Ezy

[Curtis E. Bear]

Territorian here. Got some facts to back that one up mate? Or do I just call you a know-nothing tw*t and leave it at that?

The total area of the Northern Territory is 1,420,970 km², making it the third biggest territory/state in Australia. However, it's population is only 215,000. Making it the least and most sparsely populated territory or state, with a population density of only 0.16 per square km.

[cx2115]

The total area of the Northern Territory is 1,420,970 km², making it the third biggest territory/state in Australia. However, it's population is only 215,000. Making it the least and most sparsely populated territory or state, with a population density of only 0.16 per square km.
And? There are ~110k in Darwin, ~25k in Alice Springs and most of the rest in townships. How exactly does having a lot of empty real estate translate to third world conditions?

[Curtis E. Bear]

The conditions that Aboriginals live in, in mostly rural townships in NT are considered 'third world' by not only the Commonwealth Government, but also various aid organisations. I'm sure LordTyphus was referring to outback NT, and not Darwin or Alice Springs.

It should be mentioned that the Northern Territory has the highest level of crime per capita of any state or territory in Australia, with Darwin having per capita the highest crime rate of any Australian city and Alice Springs having the second highest, with the highest murder rate in Australia.

All in all, from personal experience (driving from Townsville to Darwin and having stayed in Alice Springs) the place is a fvcking hole. (just my opinion)

[cx2115]

The conditions that Aboriginals live in, in mostly rural townships in NT are considered 'third world' by not only the Commonwealth Government, but also various aid organisations. I'm sure LordTyphus was referring to outback NT, and not Darwin or Alice Springs.

As noted in the rest of thread, it's not for want of trying that those conditions haven't been improved. Sooner or later, the residents have to get off their arse and make an effort... Which kinda brings the debate full circle. LordTyphus can speak for himself.




It should be mentioned that the Northern Territory has the highest level of crime per capita of any state or territory in Australia, with Darwin having per capita the highest crime rate of any Australian city and Alice Springs having the second highest, with the highest murder rate in Australia.

Certainly news to me. Source please?
Edit: Your location tag is kinda ironic, considering...




All in all, from personal experience (driving from Townsville to Darwin and having stayed in Alice Springs) the place is a fvcking hole. (just my opinion)
And opinions are like arseholes. Mine, obviously, is different.

[Curtis E. Bear]

As noted in the rest of thread, it's not for want of trying that those conditions haven't been improved. Sooner or later, the residents have to get off their arse and make an effort... Which kinda brings the debate full circle. LordTyphus can speak for himself.

You asked how a lot of empty real estate translates into third world conditions and I told you.

Certainly news to me. Source please?
Edit: Your location tag is kinda ironic, considering...

From 2006
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1639133.htm
"Central Australia has the highest murder rate in Australia. It is 10 times the national average."

From 2003
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/05/29/867654.htm
"The Bureau of Statistics has revealed the Territory's murder rate is nearly five times the national average"

http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/ocp/docs/statistics/Issue-19_Long-Term-Crime-Statistics.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_Northern_Territory

Feel free to bash the wiki reference, but download all crime statistics from all states and territories and you'll find the wiki entry to be correct.

My location tag is a joke. Obviously it's not true.

And opinions are like arseholes. Mine, obviously, is different.

1234567890

[cx2115]

You asked how a lot of empty real estate translates into third world conditions and I told you.

...... Fair enough, I'm still not seeing what the 0.16 persons/square kms has to do with it, but fair enough...



From 2006
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1639133.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1639133.htm)
"Central Australia has the highest murder rate in Australia. It is 10 times the national average."

From 2003
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2.../29/867654.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/05/29/867654.htm)
"The Bureau of Statistics has revealed the Territory's murder rate is nearly five times the national average"

http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/ocp/doc...Statistics.pdf (http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/ocp/docs/statistics/Issue-19_Long-Term-Crime-Statistics.pdf)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_i...hern_Territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_Northern_Territory)

The statistics you quote (in the news articles) relate to crime in indigenous communities - it should be a no-brainer, especially in this context, why crime is going to be higher there. They do not relate to crime in Darwin or Alice Springs.

I haven't checked the stats against the other states, but all I'm seeing in the PDF is reductions in crime rates in almost all categories. And since those stats would also include crimes commited in the Aboriginal communities... Remind me again, how the average person in the Territory is living in a crime-ridden third world state...?

[Curtis E. Bear]

Even with the reduction in crime, the crime rate is still the highest in Australia.

the 0.16 persons/square kms comment was in reference to this comment by you.


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTyphus http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3105344#post3105344)
Less racism than in the US, and not more racist than Canada, I would say. This article exudes sensationalism from every corner. NT is the most backward territory of Australia, akin to the US's Texas. Compared to the Australian states, it's like a sparsely populated third world country.


Territorian here. Got some facts to back that one up mate? Or do I just call you a know-nothing tw*t and leave it at that?

All I'm saying is that according to the information I've seen, the crime rate is high and the conditions that rural Aboriginals live in are considered third world. I'm not saying the whole territory is like a third world country, just some parts of it are.

[bruiserau]

No ones going to get anywhere as long as they spend all their time blaming people for their situation instead of trying to fix it. What do you want?

[cx2115]

Even with the reduction in crime, the crime rate is still the highest in Australia.

the 0.16 persons/square kms comment was in reference to this comment by you.


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTyphus http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3105344#post3105344)
Less racism than in the US, and not more racist than Canada, I would say. This article exudes sensationalism from every corner. NT is the most backward territory of Australia, akin to the US's Texas. Compared to the Australian states, it's like a sparsely populated third world country.



Ahh, gotcha.




All I'm saying is that according to the information I've seen, the crime rate is high and the conditions that rural Aboriginals live in are considered third world. I'm not saying the whole territory is like a third world country, just some parts of it are.

Certainly can't argue there, the conditions in a lot of the communities is pretty bad. I don't know how that can be fixed, either, since what has to change is the attitudes of the community members and they seem pretty settled. I'd still debate the point about overall crime-rates though; I'll do a bit of digging for my own curiosity....

[T3ngu]

The results, I think someone overestimated themselves.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj249/tengu22/NewPicture-1.jpg

[wagon]

What a shame... (not).

Whilst on this topic, something that continues to come up among some persons up here in the hills is the story that if someone of 'Aboriginal heritage' buys a motor car on finance they only need make one repayment and someone else pays the rest. I think that is crap - rascist gossip - but can anyone in the know verify yes or no? (maybe Min knows?) I would like to put it to bed for good around these parts - it does nothing but help breed hatred in a 'redneck' area like this... I mean, there was a KKK chapter spreading hatred and such only a couple of years ago until the cops shut them down.

[9mmRifle]

Not to mention mining royalties; at least in the NT.

Wasn't this a move to put Australia in line with remaining common law countries, like the U.S, New Zealand, Canada ?

[Calanen]

'Aboriginal heritage' buys a motor car on finance they only need make one repayment and someone else pays the rest


No, that's not true - I'd like to know who the 'someone else' was.

[cx2115]

Wasn't this a move to put Australia in line with remaining common law countries, like the U.S, New Zealand, Canada ?
I don't believe so; I think the royalties system was created early in the 50's and updated in the late 70's (bit before my time to be honest). Some bullet points on today's situation here: http://www.nlc.org.au/html/busi_mining_act.html