Gaza Strip: "No need to kill them"

[AK-108]

No need to kill them


Non-lethal agitating measures that would disrupt life in Gaza may be the solution

If Hamas prompts 250,000 Israelis to take cover in their bomb shelters, it feels it won. And if we fire at Hamas and children and civilians are killed, Hamas wins again. Finally, the commission of inquiry that will be established will be our third loss. Hizbullah (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284023,00.html) understood this three-way approach, and now Hamas utilizes it. So how can we overcome it? Through completely different kind of thinking that is supposed to address the three problems described above.

Who won past wars? Those who came up with new inventions and used them on the battlefield. The invention of the gunpowder, the tank, and the nuclear bomb, for example. In other words, the winner is the one that changes the existing situation and rearranges the cards; the side that introduces a new and unknown element into the war.

The IDF is capable of destroying the entire Gaza Strip, but it cannot do so because we simply cannot kill the civilian population. Hamas is of course taking advantage of this, and with cruel cynicism turned Gaza’s population into its shield. The elderly, women, and children constitute the strategic depth of the terror leadership; without the Palestinian masses, terror could not continue to exist.

So here is an idea, which can be utilized alongside the current IDF operations: Every time a rocket is launched, Israel will respond against the civilian population – but using non-lethal means.

Tear gas cannons will fire it all across the Strip, with growing frequency. Giant speakers will make terrible sounds – sirens, screeches, and loud explosions – first it would last 10 minutes, then 15 minutes, and eventually hours. This could also include Israeli music, or chants of “Hamas is doing this to you,” just like a brainwashing campaign, time and again, and everything at very high volume that does not allow for normal functioning.

Spray them with red paint

During large Palestinian gatherings, planes will spray thousands of Hamas supporters with red paint. The world will ask “why red paint?” and that would enable the “Color Red” rocket alert system, as well as Sderot’s and Ashkelon’s plight, to take front stage.

This should be supplemented, of course, by complete disengagement from Gaza – at the very least, we should cut off the supply of fuel to the Strip that we transfer through a private Israeli company, or the trucks filled with duty money that we transfer every month.

In my estimate, after 10 days like that, with Gaza citizens sleepless, their eyes burning from tear gas, their ears ringing, and covered in red paint, they would stop anyone firing rockets at Israel with their own hands.

And this is what’s special about the idea: Nobody would be able to blame Israel, because the one pushing the button every time and in fact turning on this series of bothersome measures would be Hamas itself, the moment it fires a rocket. And if the world complains – well, these Israeli means don’t kill; those are well known crowd dispersal means.

Every rocket launched, and today there are dozens of those a day, will cause the Palestinian side endless disruptions. That way, Hamas’ rockets will affect its own people as well.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3515655,00.html

[Straker]

Then what happens when the first child is seen on the news suffering from exposure to the gas or indeed dying from it (can happen relatively easily if using CS or CR)...

Public opinion turns against you, they win. Would the majority of Israeli citizens support the action at that point?

[Mu-Meson]

Sounds like a great idea to me, and if anyone calls it disproportionate, Israel should just laugh.

[IDF_TANKER]

Bull****. All these measures will be seen as mass torture. Human losses at least exist in the context of military operations. Besides, I don't see how red point is going to stop Qasams.

[Moledet]

Like always they'll call it collective punishment and turn to the UN.

[Dasein]

Like always they'll call it collective punishment and turn to the UN.

That's because it would be collective punishment.

[Power_serj]

Collective punishment is the only way at this point, and that's not bad when it's non-lethal. Obviously, these ideas mentioned are rediculous, but saying that collective punishment is wrong, is wrong.

For example, tear gasing a violent protest is collective punishment, but right. Perhaps if Israel uses collective punishment in a non-lethal manner, it could work. They need exact numbers. For example, for every rocket, Israel should (insert non-lethal collective punishment here).

Fair collective punishment would maybe be to cut off power for one hour, for each rocket, in the town the rockets came from. Three rockets, no power in the town it came from for three hours. Citizens won't want power out, so maybe authorities will stop rocket attacks and although they'll condemn Israel, they'll also condemn the terrorists and won't want that in their town.

[afreu]

In my estimate, after 10 days like that, with Gaza citizens sleepless, their eyes burning from tear gas, their ears ringing, and covered in red paint, they would stop anyone firing rockets at Israel with their own hands.Is this some kind of satire?

How naive are you, what do you think was going on the last couple of years? Gaza citizens watched their neighbours being killed, humiliated and arrested (rightfully or not) by Israeli forces for years. Why would a little red paint and tear gas change that?

[IDF_TANKER]

Is this some kind of satire?

How naive are you, what do you think was going on the last couple of years? Gaza citizens watched their neighbours being killed, humiliated and arrested (rightfully or not) by Israeli forces for years. Why would a little red paint and tear gas change that?
Who are those "you" you are referring to? The guy who wrote the article?

[IDF_TANKER]

That's because it would be collective punishment.
What's wrong with collective punishment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but collective punishments were employed through the all history (including most recent - Iraq, Iran, Cuba etc etc) in forms of economic sunctions, blockades etc. Collective punishment is perfectly legitimate as long as there is collective responsibility. And when people of Palestine elect a terrorist organization in a perfectly democratic way, support it all the way - this is the definition of collective responsibility.

You people have to stop knee-jerking every time you hear "collective punishment". Remember that you collectively punished(and still punishing) Cubans and Iraqis under Saddam, although in both cases they didn't elect them, their collective responsibility is incomperable to the Palestinian one.

[gaijinsamurai]

Good point, IDF Tanker.
If anything, "collective punishment" would be even more appropriate at this point in time, since Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people, especially those in the Gaza Strip, to lead them.

Perhaps they'll start thinking about who they want to represent them, and in what direction it is taking them.

[Dasein]

Collective punishment violates the jus in bello principle of discrimination. Those using force must make every reasonable effort to discriminate between legitimate combatants and noncombatants.

[LRPV]

Collective punishment violates the jus in bello principle of discrimination. Those using force must make every reasonable effort to discriminate between legitimate combatants and noncombatants.


Fair point, now how about telling us how HAMAS adhere to this principle?

[Mr.Flint]

Collective punishment violates the jus in bello principle of discrimination. Those using force must make every reasonable effort to discriminate between legitimate combatants and noncombatants.
Spraying them with paint is now "using force"?

[Doublethinker]

Spraying them with paint is now "using force"?

Is waterboarding torture?

[ELCI]

I'am totally agains the "red painting" !!
IDF should use GREEN!!!

NO TEARGAS!!! Use Nyok Mam fish sauce !!!

NO MUSIC ONLY LAUGHTER !!!!

[Doublethinker]

Fair point, now how about telling us how HAMAS adhere to this principle?

One of the principles of Geneva convention is that all subcribers promise to follow the established rules, regardless whether the other side follows or not.

[Calanen]

Then what happens when the first child is seen on the news suffering from exposure to the gas or indeed dying from it (can happen relatively easily if using CS or CR)...

Public opinion turns against you, they win. Would the majority of Israeli citizens support the action at that point?

CS is also flammable, so if it gets into confined buildings and either a pyrotechnic round or a spark hits it...

It is a no win situation for Israel. Ive said in other threads what I think needs to happen.

[Doublethinker]

The whole idea is just plain stupid. Mass actions against civilians be they lethal or non-lethal (the former even moreso, of course) are always frowned upon by world community (another question is whether Israel should care or not, but when fighting a massive guerilla movement, there's no way you going to keep pacifists around the globe happy).

Besides, them muslims have already mastered the art of using weakness as strength, spreading false rumours ('bombs masked to look like toys' in Afghanistan anyone?) staged photos and video shoots, so it won't be hard for them to send another 1 ton package of tapes to world channels with poor innocent children dying because they are allergic to paint, the elderly with their ears bleeding and having heart attacks because of loud noise and inability to rest, etc.


BTW, the part where the author expresses covert regret that the Israelis can't kill all the Palestinians is pure gold ;)

[Calanen]

That's because it would be collective punishment.

Isnt Hamas collectively punishing the Israelis with its rockets? Are the civilians in Israel more deserving of collective punishment than those in Gaza?

[Mr.Flint]

Is waterboarding torture?
incomparable.

Also
Water with paint has been used in the west as a method of crowd control and positive identification for arrests - i dont remember anyone crying about it being collective punishment.

[Doublethinker]

incomparable.

Also
Water with paint has been used in the west as a method of crowd control and positive identification for arrests - i dont remember anyone crying about it being collective punishment.

"crowd" is usually comprised of active rioters. While Gaza strip is populated by people of all ages, supporters and opponents.

[gaijinsamurai]

One could argue that the massive bombings of Japan's cities in WWII was collective punishment. However, you will find very few of today's Japanese bitching about it, because they came to the realization that they were to blame for their government's actions.

[gilgoul]

War is by itself collective punishment of one collectivity against the other.
Does it mean that war is systematically wrong?

[gaijinsamurai]

With the exception of the criminally insane, I don't think anyone really wants to see women, children, and other non-combatants hurt, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian. But, at a certain point, the people inhabiting the Gaza Strip need to get the message that if they continue to condone the crap that Hamas and others are consistently, pulling, it will adversly effect them.

Hey, if I could have my way, the Israelis and Palestinians would set aside their differences, respect each other's needs for security and self-determination, and live side by side in two prosperous states. But we all know that isn't going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

[Calanen]

However, you will find very few of today's Japanese bitching about it, because they came to the realization that they were to blame for their government's actions.

Most dont even know. The Japanese I've spoken to just think that they got nuked for minding their own business.

[gaijinsamurai]

We must have talked to different people.

[vinny_121_ND]

Besides, them muslims have already mastered the art of using weakness as strength, spreading false rumours ('bombs masked to look like toys' in Afghanistan anyone?) staged photos and video shoots, so it won't be hard for them to send another 1 ton package of tapes to world channels with poor innocent children dying because they are allergic to paint, the elderly with their ears bleeding and having heart attacks because of loud noise and inability to rest, etc.




I agree with that. Putting a impenetrable glass dome over gaza may be the only solution to keeping rockets out without hurting anyone.

[IDF_TANKER]

Collective punishment violates the jus in bello principle of discrimination. Those using force must make every reasonable effort to discriminate between legitimate combatants and noncombatants.
Fair enough. I'm not talking about carpet-bombing as collective punishment (although allies didn't mind doing it during WWII for exactly this purpose). Killing civilians NEVER should be adapted as collective punishment, collective punishment should be proporsional to collective responsibility. That's why we do target Hamas members, and we don't target civilians.