Tibet threads merged here.

[Chulo]

Exiled Tibetans Protest Google Censorship By ASHWINI BHATIA, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 5 minutes ago


DHARMSALA, India - Scores of angry Tibetans on Tuesday protested Google's launch of a censored version of its search engine in China which adheres to that country's government restrictions on free speech.
The protesters assembled in the central square of Dharmsala, the northern Indian headquarters of the exiled Tibetan government, carrying placards reading "Google, Don't be Evil," and "Gulag, Censoring Search by Search."
The protesters also sent out 30,000 e-mails to people across the world urging them not to access Google on Tuesday.
Also, a popular Web site on Tibetan news and views run by exiled Tibetans in India shut itself down for one day, with the message: "We do not have any right to deny you our contents, but we commit this offense to help you realize a fact."
Google Inc. launched a search engine in China last month that censors material about human rights, Tibet and other topics sensitive to Beijing. Google defends the move as a trade-off granting Chinese greater access to other information.
"We have come to love Google ... Now we feel betrayed." said Tenzin Tsundue, general secretary of the Friends of Tibet, which organized Tuesday's protest along with the Students for a Free Tibet.
Searches on Google's Chinese site for such sensitive topics as the Dalai Lama often show omitted sites, or direct users to Chinese government Web sites.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060214/ap_on_hi_te/india_tibet_google;_ylt=AlQTPqYC6Arm6tm57jkFyTus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-
i know this issue about google is old.. but how do they justify the fact that they would omit information or redirect users that ask certain questions to a government site? <in other words become a spy and give out information to the government>

[J-10]

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/china_jo/october_2007/the_dalai_lama_i_am_a_chinese.htm
The Dalai Lama: I am a Chinese
Posted by china jo at 05:20 on 21 Oct 2007

He said so in Washington, after he was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal, at a press briefing with Chinese media there. gb.chinareviewnews.com/doc/1004/7/4/3/100474370.html

He told the reporters that he was a Chinese citizen, although in fact a refugee. He said he was now not for Tibetan independence and had urged Taiwan to remain as part of China. "As part of China, Tibet can grow more properous and stronger. And an independent Tibet will remain poor and weak."

This is a man of change. Maybe, reaching old age, he really wants to go home where he is still so welcome and worshipped. Or Mr. Bush told him to give in more, in his private meeting? They should have exchanged ideas on that.

China has not responded to his latest remarks above. Who is a man of reconcilation? The Dalai or President Bush?

[Quack of Doom]

Whahaha, the daily telegraph got it from a Chinese newsagency... very reliable source...

[edit] The Daily didn't even post it theirself. It's from a Chinese blogger

[Freibier]

He said that he didn't seek for Tibetan independence already last year.
That's why nobody understood china's drama and crying after he visited Merkel and GWB ...

[Quack of Doom]

In his 5 stap peaceplan he noted he didn't seek indipendence. But a 'strong' Tibet? C'mon, it's the world most peacefull man, why would he need a strong Tibet and why would he say that Taiwan needs to be Chinese.

This whole article is a great example of propaganda

[J-10]

In fact, the original source of the article is from this Taiwan news web:
http://udn.com/NEWS/WORLD/WOR1/4062592.shtml

首度表態 達賴：我是中國人

【聯合報╱華盛頓特派員林寶慶／十九日電】 2007.10.21 02:52 am


西藏精神領袖達賴喇嘛十九日離開華府前，舉行華文記者會，首度表示他是中國人，主張「漢藏大團結」。

達賴說，他訪問台灣時，即告訴部分民進黨領導人，他不主張西藏獨立；並建議台灣與中共發展緊密獨特的關係，比較實際。

達賴強調，如果西藏獨立，一定又弱又窮；西藏只有留在中國之中，才能繁榮。

達賴不主張西藏獨立，改為尋求自治，但不被中共接受。他解釋，他希望真正自治，是教育、文化、宗教、經濟、環境等事務由藏人管理，自治應及於大藏區，包括雲南、四川、甘肅、青海等省分藏人區。

記者問達賴，他是否認為自己是中國人。達賴回答： 「是的。我們並不尋求獨立，因此理應為中華人民共和國的國民。不過，實際上我是個難民。」他說，全世界都知道他不主張西藏獨立。

至於何時再訪台灣，他說現在北京老闆不讓他訪問台灣。他說他很想去，只要與中國政府達成諒解，他就會前往。

達賴喇嘛並指出，他在九七年第一次訪問台灣時，即告訴民進黨人，他不主張西藏獨立。他並建議台灣與中國發展緊密獨特的關係，才比較實際。

他重申，他自一九七四年起，已放棄獨立，而投入「中間道路」的妥協途徑。他也承認「中間道路」未獲得實質結果，使部分藏人走上獨立路線。

達賴說，中共控制西藏，百分之九十五的藏人都有不滿；有問題就應該解決，否則對藏人及中國人都不利。他強調，布希政府及美國國會完全支持他的「中間道路」。

達賴強調希望訪問大陸的意願。他說，不希望自己訪問大陸造成挑釁，而是希望帶去正面、更清楚的了解。

至於何時再訪台灣，達賴說，「北京老闆」不讓他訪問台灣，但只要與中共政府達成諒解，他就會前往台灣。

【2007/10/21 聯合報】

[gaijinsamurai]

I hope that there can be reconciliation. Ideally, I would like to see an independent Tibet, but I know that's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is greater autonomy and respect for human rights, and on the part of the Tibetans, acknowledgement that they are part of Greater China. The Dalai Lama is probably right when he says that economically, Tibet may be better off under China.

[dangerclose]

The PLA invades Tibet and kills tens of thousands and thousands more die in prisons and labor camps but Tibet is economically better off to be occupied by China.


But the U.S. is an imperialist war monger who illegally invaded Iraq.


uhh .. yeah. I guess it just depends on who's doing the invading.

[khukuri]

The tibet movement have already changed their slogan from
"free tibet"

to


"save tibet"



Difference being is that free tibet hints at soverign country while the latter just mish mash dont hurt us

[perdurabo]

Dalai Lama is realist, independant country is out of their reach, but there is hope for other options...

[Ordie]

With exception of Jackie Chan, the Dalai Lama would be the most popular and admired Chinese citizen in the world.

More so than Hu Jintao, and Yao Ming put together.

[Zerazax]

I dunno, China is 1/5 of the worlds population and they adore Yao Ming like none other..

[Ordie]

I dunno, China is 1/5 of the worlds population and they adore Yao Ming like none other..

Yeah but...did Yao Ming ever meet the Pope, several US presidents and Mao Tse Tung?

[Occam's Razor]

Whahaha, the daily telegraph got it from a Chinese newsagency... very reliable source...

[edit] The Daily didn't even post it theirself. It's from a Chinese blogger

Yeah, it sounds like BS to me. Aside from the dubious source, there's also the fact that it makes no sense for the Dalai Lama to say that stuff. It sounds like he went to sleep the night before and then woke up as a member of the CCP.

One thing I find kind of weird is the conflicting propaganda. The Dalai Lama is so pro-China and he's behind the party 100% on everything, but he's also villified by the PRC as a troublemaker who other nations should stay away from. So you put these two together, and you have to arrive at one of two logical conclusions:

1) They're lying about him
2) They treat their supporters like dirt

Either way, it doesn't look good for them. Don't they know that propaganda doesn't work if it's inconsistent like that?

[Zerazax]

Its from a Taiwanese newspaper. Trust me, I can read some of that ;)

And the Dalai Lama WAS a member of the communist party.. in fact vice chairman of the national people's congress in '54

[manilaboy]

Yeah but...did Yao Ming ever meet the Pope, several US presidents and Mao Tse Tung?

has any other chinese blocked shaq? j/k

yao ming is admired because of the $$$ he gets from the NBA and sponsors.
a very large part of china was buddhist and so the dalai lama has many supporters, even in mainland, because of religion, not politics regarding tibet.
but they each have their moments in time. yao ming has not met the pope yet, not several u.s. presidents, and of course not the live mao. but in the future, when chinese worship $$$ as much as u.s. does, yao ming will be bigger than dalai lama and the pope put together.

please clarify, why would he join the peoples congress while also in the resistance movement?

[9mmRifle]

There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the sht end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere.The Lama has about as much chance for kicking out the Chinese as the Australian Aboriginals have for sending the master whiteman packing back home to wherever place they came from. The Lama himself is not without his own Chinese skeletons, links to terroism, oppression of Shugden people, holding hands with the doomsday terrorist leader Asahara who tried to never-gas the people of Tokyo. There were also a few politicans who wanted Xinjiang returned to the radical muslims, thankfully China never let this happen.

If China were not communist I don't think America would give a flying f$ck about Tibet

[Ordie]

There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the sht end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere.The Lama has about as much chance for kicking out the Chinese as the Australian Aboriginals have for sending the master whiteman packing back home to wherever place they came from. The Lama himself is not without his own Chinese skeletons, links to terroism, oppression of Shugden people, holding hands with the doomsday terrorist leader Asahara who tried to never-gas the people of Tokyo. There were also a few politicans who wanted Xinjiang returned to the radical muslims, thankfully China never let this happen.

If China were not communist I don't think America would give a flying f$ck about Tibet

Actually the opposite is true. The minorities do get alot of attention. albiet in a patronizing manner showcasing them in musical revues and international cultural troupes.

In fact there's a minorities theme park in Kunmming China. Kinda like the Polynesian Village in Hawaii.

[lenovo]

Absoultely wrong.

The buddhism in mainland is completely different than that in Tibet, so most buddhists in China don't even know who dalai lama is.

has any other chinese blocked shaq? j/k

yao ming is admired because of the $$$ he gets from the NBA and sponsors.
a very large part of china was buddhist and so the dalai lama has many supporters, even in mainland, because of religion, not politics regarding tibet.
but they each have their moments in time. yao ming has not met the pope yet, not several u.s. presidents, and of course not the live mao. but in the future, when chinese worship $$$ as much as u.s. does, yao ming will be bigger than dalai lama and the pope put together.

please clarify, why would he join the peoples congress while also in the resistance movement?

[gaijinsamurai]

"We wouldn't give a damn about these religiousity freaks..." reveals a lot about your attitude towards the Tibetans. And "no", Tibet wasn't "owned" by the Chinese for centuries.

[9mmRifle]

I consider anyone who oppresses the Shugden people and consider anyone who befriends a Sarin gas doomsday cult to be a religiousity freak. The Chicoms probably have more claim to Tibet or Xizang than the Nihonjins do to N.Honshu and Hokkaido when they finally took control when they crushed the Ainu peple during the Ainus Menashi Konashir rebellions for freedom and practice of their own traditions, ainu religion, ainu language etc. China ruled Tibet long before colonization of the Americas, the chances of sending the Chinese out of Tibet are about as good as sending Francisco Vásquez's descendants packing back home to Spain. There r many nations dived with ethnic traditions, and hundreds of Indigenous peoples face cultural extinction every decade, the only reason we give a damn about the Lama and his crap is because China is communist and celebs like Gere keep the propaganda going.

[Occam's Razor]

Its from a Taiwanese newspaper. Trust me, I can read some of that ;)

And the Dalai Lama WAS a member of the communist party.. in fact vice chairman of the national people's congress in '54

Yes, but it still doesn't make sense for him to be talking like that now.


please clarify, why would he join the peoples congress while also in the resistance movement?

I'd also like to know the answer to this, I must be missing something.

[Ordie]

"We wouldn't give a damn about these religiousity freaks..." reveals a lot about your attitude towards the Tibetans. And "no", Tibet wasn't "owned" by the Chinese for centuries.

Could one compare Tibet relations with China in the same manner as Scotland's relationship with the United Kingdom/England?

I'm not trying to flame bait, I'm just trying to get a better understanding from a perspective that could be easily understood by the non-Chinese members.

Reading history, Chinese system of expansion, establishing protectorates and governance seemed like a simple matter. All it took was the ajoining states and kingdoms to recognize the Chinese Emperor as the Mandate of Heaven and pay an annual tribute.

For example Korea would pay tribute, but were left alone in dealing with thier own affairs. Perhaps Tibet fell into this system.

[ViktorNavorski]

I consider anyone who oppresses the Shugden people and consider anyone who befriends a Sarin gas doomsday cult to be a religiousity freak. The Chicoms probably have more claim to Tibet or Xizang than the Nihonjins do to N.Honshu and Hokkaido when they finally took control when they crushed the Ainu peple during the Ainus Menashi Konashir rebellions for freedom and practice of their own traditions, ainu religion, ainu language etc. China ruled Tibet long before colonization of the Americas, the chances of sending the Chinese out of Tibet are about as good as sending Francisco Vásquez's descendants packing back home to Spain. There r many nations dived with ethnic traditions, and hundreds of Indigenous peoples face cultural extinction every decade, the only reason we give a damn about the Lama and his crap is because China is communist and celebs like Gere keep the propaganda going.And the British Empire once ruled a big part of the world, the Romans/Italians ruled the whole of Europe, Alexander went all the way to Asia, 1 out of every 200 males on Earth is somehow descended from Genghis Khan, so we might as well start learning Mongolians and let that country start expanding their size if we're going to go that far back in historical semantics for justification.

[AZRON]

I understand that China is moving in many ethnic Chinese and the economy is booming. Plus the 1 child rule doesn't apply to the Chinese families.
Reportedly the Tibetans aren't prospering as much as the new Chinese are.

[Solvent]

Could one compare Tibet relations with China in the same manner as Scotland's relationship with the United Kingdom/England?

I'm not trying to flame bait, I'm just trying to get a better understanding from a perspective that could be easily understood by the non-Chinese members.

Reading history, Chinese system of expansion, establishing protectorates and governance seemed like a simple matter. All it took was the ajoining states and kingdoms to recognize the Chinese Emperor as the Mandate of Heaven and pay an annual tribute.

For example Korea would pay tribute, but were left alone in dealing with thier own affairs. Perhaps Tibet fell into this system.

Ordie, your example is appropriate. You sure know a lot about China. Are you Chinese?

[Ordie]

Are you Chinese?

No, but I do appreciate fine Chinese cusine such as chop suey, egg foo young and fortune cookies.

And I did managed get kicked out of several bars in Hong Kong and until rescued by several Limeys at HMS Tamar. Same thing in Macau but my Spanish allowed me to befriend several Portugese NCO's to get me out of trouble.

[Ordie]

I understand that China is moving in many ethnic Chinese and the economy is booming. Plus the 1 child rule doesn't apply to the Chinese families.
Reportedly the Tibetans aren't prospering as much as the new Chinese are.

Actually its the opposite. The Chinese gives exceptions to rural and minorities on the one child policy. Besides people are disregarding the rule and having a second child since many now can afford to pay the fines and work in the private sector outside government control.

As far as Tibetians not benefitting from the rapid economy. Tibetians and Chinese live within two paradigims.

The Chinese and Tibetians have two unique different value systems and norms. I believe the Chinese are making the same mistakes as thier Soviet Russian counterparts in having a chauvenistic and patronizing attitudes towards the minorities. They assume that everyone wants to be successful and rich.

Therefore the Chinese assume if they pour money and people into a region, they assume the same riches will trickle down. Which is not the case every time.

[sparkFan]

Who here have visited Tibet?

I have a classmate worked for a company in ChengDu, but his position is the leader of office in LaSha. He have many local friends, even his girl friend, and they will get married.

We are contacted by Blood relationship, economic relationship, historical relationship, and religionary relationship. Dalai Lama said wrongly. Tibet is a part of China, and if China lose Tibet, she will be poor and weak. At the same time, if Tibet leave from China, Tibet will be poor and weak.

Maybe someone else want to split Chinea to several parts, just they have done in Jugoslavia, and they will do in Iraq. Fortunately, China are not Jugoslavia and Iraq, and not such the China in 1900.

[LaoSexMachine]

Who here have visited Tibet?

I have a classmate worked for a company in ChengDu, but his position is the leader of office in LaSha. He have many local friends, even his girl friend, and they will get married.

We are contacted by Blood relationship, economic relationship, historical relationship, and religionary relationship. Dalai Lama said wrongly. Tibet is a part of China, and if China lose Tibet, she will be poor and weak. At the same time, if Tibet leave from China, Tibet will be poor and weak.

Maybe someone else want to split Chinea to several parts, just they have done in Jugoslavia, and they will do in Iraq. Fortunately, China are not Jugoslavia and Iraq, and not such the China in 1900.

What are you? The speech writer for the Chicom party? Wasn't Vietnam apart of China at one time? Why aren't they trying to get it back into the fold?

[Nano]

Ezekiel I know the question was not directed towards me and rhetorical at that, but China has once tried not too long ago at conquering Vietnam. China has since not attempted to retake it since then.Perhaps it was the impression they got when they tried that the Vietnamese who would soon fight to the last man,woman, or child than be ruled that changed their minds. Perhaps our PRC party member sparkFan will elaborate on this.

[Solvent]

Ezekiel I know the question was not directed towards me and rhetorical at that, but China has once tried not too long ago at conquering Vietnam. China has since not attempted to retake it since then.Perhaps it was the impression they got when they tried that the Vietnamese who would soon fight to the last man,woman, or child than be ruled that changed their minds. Perhaps our PRC party member sparkFan will elaborate on this.

So which war are you talking about? The Sino-Vietnam war in 1979? If so, please read some reference first. The goal of China was not for conquering. Before this war, there were no wars between the two countries for long time.

[lenovo]

Well said. Trying to split Tibet/Taiwan from China means declaring war against 1.4 billion Chinese. That is why China needs to modernize its army.


Who here have visited Tibet?

I have a classmate worked for a company in ChengDu, but his position is the leader of office in LaSha. He have many local friends, even his girl friend, and they will get married.

We are contacted by Blood relationship, economic relationship, historical relationship, and religionary relationship. Dalai Lama said wrongly. Tibet is a part of China, and if China lose Tibet, she will be poor and weak. At the same time, if Tibet leave from China, Tibet will be poor and weak.

Maybe someone else want to split Chinea to several parts, just they have done in Jugoslavia, and they will do in Iraq. Fortunately, China are not Jugoslavia and Iraq, and not such the China in 1900.

[lenovo]

What are you? The speech writer for the Chicom party? Wasn't Vietnam apart of China at one time? Why aren't they trying to get it back into the fold?

Because Vietnam didn't belong to Republic of China( Currently Taiwan), People's repulic of China didn't invade any regions that didn't belong to ROC or QingDynasty. In fact, the outter mogolian was splitted from ROC in the early 20th century. We wont' let the same thing happen again.

I hope some of you haven't been brainwahsed by your west media. If not, then you might have seen the following maps:

Qing Dynasty 清朝 (1644-1911)
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Qing/mapQing.JPG

Republic of China(1911-1949, then moved to Taiwan until present
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.jpg/754px-ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.jpg

[plato]

Well said. Trying to split Tibet/Taiwan from China means declaring war against 1.4 billion Chinese. That is why China needs to modernize its army.

A modern army did not stop USSR from spliting apart. So, be wise.

[plato]

Because Vietnam didn't belong to Republic of China( Currently Taiwan), People's repulic of China didn't invade any regions that didn't belong to ROC or QingDynasty. In fact, the outter mogolian was splitted from ROC in the early 20th century. We wont' let the same thing happen again.

I hope some of you haven't been brainwahsed by your west media. If not, then you might have seen the following maps:

Qing Dynasty 清朝 (1644-1911)

Republic of China(1911-1949, then moved to Taiwan until present


In your unbrainwashed mind, is outter Mongolia part of China? Please unbrainwash us. Thanks!!

[Masai]

What are you? The speech writer for the Chicom party? Wasn't Vietnam apart of China at one time? Why aren't they trying to get it back into the fold?

what are you ? a dumbass ???

[Ordie]

Well said. Trying to split Tibet/Taiwan from China means declaring war against 1.4 billion Chinese. That is why China needs to modernize its army.

The primary goal of the People's Liberation Army is to serve and protect the Communist Party of China.

The primary goal of the Communist Party of China is to govern China by any means necessary.

The Communist Politburo has allowed the modernization of the PLA as a means to secure the status quo of the Party.

[manilaboy]

it was a part. its not claimed by PRC but by ROC in contemporary times, but this claim was dropped alongside their claim over mainland China when they realized that this was futile and continuing to do so would make them look funny.

[manilaboy]

The primary goal of the People's Liberation Army is to serve and protect the Communist Party of China.

The primary goal of the Communist Party of China is to govern China by any means necessary.

The Communist Politburo has allowed the modernization of the PLA as a means to secure the status quo of the Party.

true, but a lot of armed forces serve this purpose. not just PLA.

[plato]

true, but a lot of armed forces serve this purpose. not just PLA.A lot of armed forces? What do you mean by a lot? 5 countries? 10 countries? Can you expand on that point?

Let me start with one example: North Korea. Who else? Iran? Cuba?....

[Ordie]

Wasn't Vietnam apart of China at one time?

Yes, among Vietnamese it was considered the longest resistance movement that lasted more than 1,000 years.

In 40 A.D. the Trung Sisters led a rebellion against the Chinese overlords during the Han period. The Chinese were eventually expelled by Ngo Quyen in the 939 A.D.

The Vietnamese also resisted attempts by the Mongols but were once again occupied by China in the 1400's and once again expelled by Le Loi.

I guess you can say indpendence and resistance is 'hard wired' within the Vietnamese DNA.

[Satellite Weapon]

In your unbrainwashed mind, is outter Mongolia part of China? Please unbrainwash us. Thanks!!

Mongolia fought a war of independence, the Mongols were backed by the Russians and won and by 1924 Mongolia was its own Republic. On Tibet the outcome was totally opposite, all of the time. Tibet's biggest bloody war of resistance waged 1950, 60s they were backed by the US and CIA and they failed, Tibet tried the revolt with militia tactics, planting bombs, they lost...once China saw they Tibetans blowing up stuff the PLA rolled in the soldiers tanks, they were brutally crushed and they failed. If you lose a war, you lose land just like Syria lost the over Golan Heights. Now they just sound like a bunch of sour losers, on the issue of Tibet even the Taiwanese agree it is part of China.

[manilaboy]

A lot of armed forces? What do you mean by a lot? 5 countries? 10 countries? Can you expand on that point?

Let me start with one example: North Korea. Who else? Iran? Cuba?....

maybe in your part of the world it is not, but in 3rd world countries and countries still ruled by "royalty" like:
in Asia, especially burma, philippines, NK, pakistan, huge part of african continent, middle east countries that have no democracies.

not all countries and people are fortunate enough to be really free and democratic. only a handful of nations are developed and have the power in the hands of the citizens rather than elite few. see my point?

[Teme]

Tibet's biggest bloody war of resistance waged 1950, 60s they were backed by the US and CIA and they failed, Tibet tried the revolt with militia tactics, planting bombs, they lost...once China saw they Tibetans blowing up stuff the PLA rolled in the soldiers tanks, they were brutally crushed and they failed. If you lose a war, you lose land just like Syria lost the over Golan Heights. Now they just sound like a bunch of sour losers, on the issue of Tibet even the Taiwanese agree it is part of China.
Golan heights may not be the best possible example if you are trying to justify the Chinese rule over Tibet. You might want to check the status of Golan heights.

Of course Taiwan agrees that Tibet is part of China because Kuomingtang is the rightful ruler of Chinap-) PRC and CCP is the rightful ruler of Taiwan and Tibet as well so we just have to figure out who rules who...

[lenovo]

In your unbrainwashed mind, is outter Mongolia part of China? Please unbrainwash us. Thanks!!

roflLol, that means China has right to take outter mongolia one day. But for now, it is a good buffer zone for China and Russia. In fact, more and more outter mogolian immigrate to inner mogolia due to China's economic boom.

If the father was the president and the son is the current president, guess which country it is ? C'mon, it is not north korea. hint, another president's wife is going to be president too. Well, keep being brainwashed and ruled by the same 2 families for 32 years seems to a happy thing, isn't it?

[plato]

roflLol, that means China has right to take outter mongolia one day. But for now, it is a good buffer zone for China and Russia. In fact, more and more outter mogolian immigrate to inner mogolia due to China's economic boom.

If the father was the president and the son is the current president, guess which country it is ? C'mon, it is not north korea. hint, another president's wife is going to be president too. Well, keep being brainwashed and ruled by the same 2 families for 32 years seems to a happy thing, isn't it?

Answer the simple question, is outer Mongolia part of China? That is a Yes or No question. More and more Chinese immigrate to USA, too. So what's the point of bringing up this Mongolian immigration thing, if it is true.

[Zerazax]

I don't really care who said what but the truth is, many parts of the world and entire kingdoms and so on were conquered by various other powers throughout history. It's been done. Had mass media and information not been around, this would've been the same case.

After all, when Tibet was taken by the Qing Empire in the 1800's, it reminds me of the U.S. taking the S.W. US from Mexico. And I sure as hell ain't handing myself back to Mexico despite people there and here saying we're being unjustly ruled by the U.S. as an illegal gov't :roll:

[Teme]

And the Dalai Lama WAS a member of the communist party.. in fact vice chairman of the national people's congress in '54 He was an appointee to the National Assembly in '54 but his application to the CCP was never accepted.


please clarify, why would he join the peoples congress while also in the resistance movement?
He played the game with Mao because he promised Tibet virtual autonomy. He was a realist and did this to serve his people but eventually he became disillusioned with Mao. The Great Leap caused famine and rebellion in Chinese provinces next to Tibet in 1958 and uprising broke out in Lhasa 1959. Mao let Dalai Lama to escape on purpose to not making him a martyr and to be able to have free hand in Lhasa and wipe out the opposition.

Imperialist countries have throughout the history used the previous possessions as an excuse for occupation and domination of their neighbours. In case of Tibet the supposed cause was saving the Tibetans from backward theocracy. I don't agree that the lives of one million Tibetans perished in famine, labour camps and executions is worth the claimed progress. Why wouldn't Tibetans have reformed their country themselves especially when 14th Dalai Lama was very interested in science and modern technology?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Looks like things are kicking off for the world's largest colonial regime

Could be an interesting Olympic year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/14/wtibet314.xml

[BugHunt]

I love the way the freaking Indians of all people are "clamping down" on those rowdy tibetian protestors! What with all there walking peacefully and that....

"We dont allow any protests against China on our soil" - some Indian jobsworth policechief.


Obviously Ghandi wouldve been a bit of a c@nt - and probably serverly beaten - to those in power in India today.


India worlds largest democracey? Dont they have freedom of speech inbuilt into democracies?

[Ichabod]

With all eyes peeled on China im not surprised.I would be surprised if something like this happened back in Mao's time ;)

[Bongopete]

Theyre a 'democracy' but who said anything about free speech?

[randomguy]

I love the way the freaking Indians of all people are "clamping down" on those rowdy tibetian protestors! What with all there walking peacefully and that....

"We dont allow any protests against China on our soil" - some Indian jobsworth policechief.


Obviously Ghandi wouldve been a bit of a c@nt - and probably serverly beaten - to those in power in India today.


India worlds largest democracey? Dont they have freedom of speech inbuilt into democracies?

Ya, i bet they dont even torture and waterboard detainees without charge. Pfft they call themselves a democracy?

[Switek]

Hope that this year Olimpic Games will be disaster for Chinese occupants...

[Afro-European]

As much as i support Tibetans freedom,i don't want this olympic games to be politicized.We've already seen it in 1980 and 1984.That sh!t ruined the hope of many athletes.


Hope that this year Olimpic Games will be disaster for Chinese occupants...

[Nano]

Why does the world hate freedom so much? I guess that's the reason they push this thing called democracy to undermine freedom worldwide.

[He219]

As much as i support Tibetans freedom,i don't want this olympic games to be politicized.We've already seen it in 1980 and 1984.That sh!t ruined the hope of many athletes.


The fate of the entire Tibetian populus outweighs your armchair viewing pleasure.

[gregoralex]

Why does the world hate freedom so much? I guess that's the reason they push this thing called democracy to undermine freedom worldwide.
Why does your master hate freedom so much?

[He219]

Why does your master hate freedom so much?
You can argue the merits of loss of personal freedoms in a time of global conflict before resorting to inflammatory comments like 'your master'.

After all, we don't live in a society remotely as totalitarian as Tibet finds itself ruled by.

[Nano]

The fate of the entire Tibetian populus outweighs your armchair viewing pleasure.

I think you got it wrong He219, he is concerned about the athletes.
Kobe Bryant and Lebron James can't go on living without their multi million dollar endorsement deals their Olympic performance is riding on man. Don't you get its about the athletes

[He219]

Kobe Bryant and Lebron James can't go on living without their multi million dollar endorsement deals their Olympic performance is riding on.
Crap, now that really sucks.
:(
They work so hard training only to have those Tibetian and Buddhist Monks ruin all the Olympic spirit with their rioting.

[BugHunt]

I think you got it wrong He219, he is concerned about the athletes.
Kobe Bryant and Lebron James can't go on living without their multi million dollar endorsement deals their Olympic performance is riding on man. Don't you get its about the athletes


How about this way then - the fate of Tibet, Darfur and hundreds of thousands of corruptly dispossessed chinese and poltical prisoners outweighs, any atheletes SPORTING dreams.


Dunno about you but on principle i think most people rate human life to be more worthwhile then sports and games.

[BugHunt]

Ya, i bet they dont even torture and waterboard detainees without charge. Pfft they call themselves a democracy?

Thats cause there not a "developed" democracey like Bush's USA...... ;)

[Nano]

Dunno about you but on principle i think most people rate human life to be more worthwhile then sports and games.
Uh what you think I was being serious about me thinking that way. I was being sarcastic and trying to correct He219 on his interpretation of Afro-Euro's post. To be fair I should have added China's beloved son Yao Ming into that mix of athletes.

Here is a more precise and equally damming sarcastic post about the Olympic Games being held in China

I think you got it wrong He219, he is concerned about the athletes.
Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, and Yao Ming can't go on living without their multi million dollar endorsement deals their Olympic performance is riding on man. Don't you get its about the athletes!

[He219]

BugHunt reinforced your argument and used the term 'you' directed to the general readership as in 'you all'.
;)

[Nano]

BugHunt reinforced your argument and used the term 'you' directed to the general readership as in 'you all'.
;)

Ah I see it now that you pointed it out to me. Since he quoted me I overlooked his first few words which gives away his reinforcement. Yeah found it rather odd he used the "Dunno about you" line normally used as you pointed out. Ah my line needed to have Yao Ming added anyway.;)

[FIA_cn]

the last photo of that link was Nepal, not Tibet.

mistake made by the media unintentionally?

[gregoralex]

the last photo of that link was Nepal, not Tibet.

mistake made by the media unintentionally?

=============
how poor you are!My little pity on you

[Switek]

As much as i support Tibetans freedom,i don't want this olympic games to be politicized.We've already seen it in 1980 and 1984.That sh!t ruined the hope of many athletes.


There's no fear about performance of Olimpic Games themselves. The key of my previous statement was other. I wish that Chinese government which makes typical political corruption will not be able darken real problems. I really hope that Olimpic Games will be a good opportunity for peple of Tibet (and not only them) to make their voice strongly heard!

Fortunatelly Chinese can not buy everyone. And in this context I wish Chinese government a PR disaster.

[Weasel]

Wjy should China need a good PR? Why should China care?

[9mmRifle]

Thanks to those Hollywood freaks there is an unlimited supply of BS on this Tibetan issue. There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the **** end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere. Of course there are Japanophiles like Nano who claim China should be broke into pieces. If China were not communist today, nobody would be saying crap about Tibet. The Lama himself is not without his own Chinese skeletons, links to terroism, oppression of Shugden people, holding hands with the doomsday terrorist leader Asahara who had plans to nerve gassed the people of Tokyo, a doomsday cult that had plans to start a third world war. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6505/5s1cvv2.jpg
Maybe someone other freaks want to split China to several parts, just like the Iranians plan to do in Iraq

[Gulag]

Hope that this year Olimpic Games will be disaster for Chinese occupants...

And not just because of Tibet, but whole ****ing system.

[FIA_cn]

=============
how poor you are!My little pity on you

thanks, I just stated a fact, so do you,isn't it?

[FIA_cn]

Thanks to those Hollywood freaks there is an unlimited supply of BS on this Tibetan issue. There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the **** end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere. Of course there are Japanophiles like Nano who claim China should be broke into pieces. If China were not communist today, nobody would be saying crap about Tibet. The Lama himself is not without his own Chinese skeletons, links to terroism, oppression of Shugden people, holding hands with the doomsday terrorist leader Asahara who had plans to nerve gassed the people of Tokyo, a doomsday cult that had plans to start a third world war. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6505/5s1cvv2.jpg
Maybe someone other freaks want to split China to several parts, just like the Iranians plan to do in Iraq

well said, telling the whole thing about this thread.

and let boycotte the stupied olympics, hatewhole fuvking system of China and tear her territory apart, let the pathetic people who living in that country embrace the glorious "freedom" and "democracy"!!

great idea and sounds pretty good and full of humanity, but how many of you guys ever come to China and lived in here? ok, just turn up the TV and watching news telling brutal Chinese gov raping its citizen, abusing human right and selling human organs! ok, this is what happening in a nation of 1.3 billion population and growing steadly, the nation where the economic is booming each year, a nation where people's living standard keep improving since last decade... wait, isn't there are something contradictory? NO!! cuz they are communist aka they are evil!! so let that country fall apart and step into chaos, so the people there can enjoy freedom and democracy!

GREAT PLAN! HYPOCRITES!

[hydropod]

Fia_cn: Ignore them, they are just ignorant.
But I am feeling that the Chinese government is dealing with this matter already. You can see from the photo releases today and the video footages out tonight showing how those "peaceful activists in a peaceful demonstration" as portrayed by BBC, CNN and co. have been burning cars and mosques, looting shops and stores, stoning, stabbing and even murdering han, hui, ulgur and mongolians who are non-tibetans. Quite a slap in the face of those who supports them.

That photo of a gang those animals kicking and bashing the ****e body of a firefighter called to put out fires had already caused quite a reaction within China today, and this will give the govenment support from the people when the gloves come off soon.

Then again, maybe that is what some of those higher up in the hierachy who planned this whole riot wanted to see. What better time to make sure there is a "chicom massacre" similar to TAM right before the Olympics!

EDIT: As I am typing this, news have indicated at least 5 han civilians and police had been killed today, you can almost see the complete crack-down coming.....

[Switek]

... so let that country fall apart and step into chaos, so the people there can enjoy freedom and democracy!

GREAT PLAN! HYPOCRITES!


Who said this? What democracy has common with chaos? Why did you use this kind of fallacy argumentation? And who is hypocrite? rofl

[9mmRifle]

Like it or not life has improved for the people of Tibet, they have industry, security, infrastructure, a new Qinghai-Railway. "Freedom" if not done correctly can be very over-rated, too much Freedom can be a bad thing. Freedom to see cult groups set up in your own town, have your kids exposed to drugs, freedom for some stranger to enter your neighborhood, your home Look at what Mr.MissionAccomplished achieved, yeah he dropped out of the sky to claim victory and helped push a plan to take out Saddam and his henchmen but we soon saw an Iraq falling into chaos. It took John Abizaid, Franks, Petraeus as well as thousands of injured or killed troops to save his ass from embarrassment and get Iraq back into working order. Freedom without security is anarchy !

[FIA_cn]

Who said this? What democracy has common with chaos? Why did you use this kind of fallacy argumentation? And who is hypocrite? rofl

Iraq democracy

maybe you'll say the allied force is doing good job there, yeah i agreed.

but if I am a ordinary iraq peasant who living in the countryside and don't ever care about who's the leader of the country, I just don't like soldiers kicking and break my front door in the midnight then mess up my closet.

[afreu]

the nation where the economic is booming each year, a nation where people's living standard keep improving since last decade... wait, isn't there are something contradictory? NO!!So human rights don't matter as long as the economy is booming? From that point of view Hitler wasn't that bad either, you know, he built motorways and everbody had a job.

Anyway the Chinese government will crush the demonstrations, the leaders of the developped nations will give out some half-hearted statements about how upset they are and than it's back to realpolitik.

[Mobydog]

I don't know... the situation there in Tibet is really misreported by most western media as being "Peaceful" or even a "massacre".

But as far as I can tell, it is mostly the Tibetians doing off Chinese... burning them alive, stabbing them to death , armed with machetes, knifes, sticks, Molotovs, handguns shooting anywhere, stoning everyone.. including firefighters and burning everything. The whole thing looks like the Indonesian rioters back in 1998. If such situation were to occur in any western countries..Like the LA riots, what would their police force do ?

There were two reported Tibetian death (aren't innocent), while 10 Chinese death, including a teenage girl. And countless civilians in Hospitals with burns injuries.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23379330-2,00.html

Western Tourist witness accounts

"Oh my God. Oh no. That's crazy. One hundred people are trying to stone one man. A man was trying to cross the street with his motorcycle - they were trying to stone him but it's so crowded I can't see whether they got him or not.
"We came out for a walk about at about five today. I knew something was happening because there were a lot of people on the street. We were on Sera Street, which goes to the [Klukang] monastery. It sounds like the noise came from there; it sounds like at first they had been fighting in the temple.
"We saw people running and people in this hotel told us to get in quickly as the crowd was coming. They seem OK here, maybe the owner is Tibetan. All the other hotels have smashed windows.
"The residents are very angry. They are throwing stones at anyone who is Han [Chinese] or from other minorities like the Hui, who are Muslims. It seems like it's ethnic - like they want to kill anyone not Tibetan.
"I would say it's a riot here but I think in the centre it's worse. There's a lot of smoke - we can see it where there have been burnings. I heard people saying the authorities were firing, using guns. We don't know.
Here we have seen people trying to stone anyone they can - Han and other minorities, not foreigners. The Tibetans had stones and knives. I saw Chinese people running away - there was nothing they could do.
"We don't see any police around here. Maybe they're all in the centre and are too busy. It's very violent.
"Oh my God. Someone has a gun in front of me. There's a group of about 20 people - two of them have handguns. They are walking the street.They're shooting. They didn't have uniforms, but the way they were in a group I thought maybe they were police. They went down the street and the first one fired, that's for sure - I think the others did; there was so much noise I can't be sure. Then some of the citizens threw stones, but not at them - in the other direction. So I don't know if they were police or maybe Tibetans.
"I have just been out to get my things. We are staying at the hotel tonight. There are still people on the streets but only Tibetans - if they see anyone
Chinese they throw stones.
"Three times people raised their arms and then when they saw I was white they stopped it. The thing that surprised me most was that I saw no police or soldiers.
"I saw three people assaulting a man - I was 50 metres away, but I think he was Chinese. They kicked him and then one man had a knife and used it. He was lying on the floor and the man put the knife in his back, like he wanted to see he was dead.
"I had to get away, there were people throwing stones.
"When I came back he was gone - I don't know if he's dead. Then I saw people who had obviously been beaten or stoned. There wasn't blood on them but they were so shocked.
"This area used to be a place where Tibetans and the Chinese were friendly.
"I think this is going to get worse. One person told me 300 people have died in the city centre [the Guardian has no information to substantiate this claim]. I just don't know."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/15/tibet.china2?gurss&feed=worldnews

or this... paints a different picture of the situation there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/14/tibet.china4

FireFighter done in by stones, while responding to 160 fires, including 40 major blazes http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6088/post2541205515732oj7.jpg

The peaceful protesters - notice the machette and burnings.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4441/post2541205515838nq2.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6004/post2541205515922bg0.jpg

[Xaito]

There's no fear about performance of Olimpic Games themselves. The key of my previous statement was other. I wish that Chinese government which makes typical political corruption will not be able darken real problems. I really hope that Olimpic Games will be a good opportunity for peple of Tibet (and not only them) to make their voice strongly heard!

Fortunatelly Chinese can not buy everyone. And in this context I wish Chinese government a PR disaster.

why do many people wish for a sports event that's supposed to bring people closer together to be a stage for dirty political fights? I just don't get it.

I'm sure chinese people really look forward to the olympic games and I hope that nobody spoils it for them.

[FIA_cn]

So human rights don't matter as long as the economy is booming? From that point of view Hitler wasn't that bad either, you know, he built motorways and everbody had a job.


Hitler was mad. no comparability between China and Hitler case.

China never invade any country in the last decade when she's economic getting better.

[Switek]

Guys, come on! Look at my user profile and look from where I am and what's my age. Half of my life was in communist country. I used to attend to schools full of soviet/communist/socialist propaganda BS hidden in educational system. I know your argumentation much better than you can imagine.

As long as you government / parliament is not elected in general, free and equal elections, as long as People of Tibet can not decide themselves (even as Tibet as a part of China). your argumentation is weak and defenceless.
You have no idea what freedom and democracy is. I know both - a kind of regime you live under and not perfect, but much better democracy.

[9mmRifle]

.
You have no idea what freedom and democracy is.

But I have, I have seen democracy and tyranny in my lifetime and I would much rather have a bunch of commie a-holes like the CCP in charge of people than bunch of a dumb religiosity freaks like the Lama's cult. Do you know the Lama is responsible for the oppression of Shugden people, do you know how they used to live ? They lived off charity and depended on things like distilled Yak ****, it wasn't exactly a modern democracy and they used dirt and Yak turds to build their homes, they had work done with a history of slavery. Do you know the Lama gave his support to one of the world's most dangerous terrorists ? a mass murderer who was one of the Lama's homeboys is now on trial for terrorism in Japan. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries and If China were not communist I don't think America would give a flying f*ck about Tibet. Anyhow it looks like you've no plan to listen to reason so I'll leave you to back to your Hollyweird Celebrity fantasy of a free hippie kingdom of heaven in Tibet

[FIA_cn]

Guys, come on! Look at my user profile and look from whwere I am and what's my age. Half of my life was in communist country. I used to attend to schools full of soviet/communist/socialist propaganda BS hidden in educational system. I know your argumentation much better than you can imagine.

As long as you government / parliament is not elected in general, free and equal elections, as long as People of Tibet can not decide themselves (even as Tibet as a part of China). your argumentation is weak and defenceless.
You have no idea what freedom and democracy is. I know both - a kind of regime you live under and not perfect, but much better democracy.

no, there are differences, just like some medicine can cure your disease while it can kill another people. China and Poland have completely different characteristic, even the so called "communist system" was quite different, cuz it must be built on their own culture and history.

democracy is good, and I believe that one day we can elect the person I admire, but if you ask me whether China need to turn "democracy" today, I'd answer NO, definitly, cuz all we need nowadays is stability and keep development.

[Switek]

no, there are differences, just like some medicine can cure your disease while it can kill another people. China and Poland have completely different characteristic, even the so called "communist system" was quite different, cuz it must be built on their own culture and history.

democracy is good, and I believe that one day we can elect the person I admire, but if you ask me whether China need to turn "democracy" today, I'd answer NO, definitly, cuz all we need nowadays is stability and keep development.


Considering the fact that basis of human nature are similar regardless culture and historic heritage I'm more optimistic than you. Look how people from whole world can acclimatize themselves in USA, for example.

Arguments used by you are typical government argumentation (I remeber the same from school from 1980's), from among more, to keep people obedient. Polish democracy differ from British or Argentinian, for example, couse of historic heritage. But still in those countries people can decide about themselves and have influence ofer local and national authorities.

[FIA_cn]

hydropod:
yes, as a ordinary China's citizen who struggling for food by hard working each day, I always be considered as a "Chicom propaganda agent" or "typical pathetic brainwashed China man" on the internet, I've already get along well with thread like this. every thread about China is become "bashing evil commie" playground.
there are huge misunderstanding between the Chinese and western people,

all of us will be brainwashed if we don't thinking and keep open minded ourself, cuz no media is unbiased, for instance, about the most quoted "tiananmen inceident", China's official media never show scense of soldier open fire toward the riot crowds, and western media never show any scenes about burnt body of PLA soldiers and the mobs swinging a cut-down-head of a soldier in the midair.

to those who always thinking DaLai Lama is a peaceful freedom fighter, please read this and extend some knowledge of the Tibet history, by western culture researchers and anthropologists, I recommend this long but interesting artical. believe it or not, please judge by yourself.
http://kalovski.blog.com/763351/



let's see this, a comment on MP.net, I don't agree it totally but it tells what is "double standard" in some aspect.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3109611&postcount=72

Like most Americans, I wish Tibet could break free of China. But why is there no such sympathy for Sikkim, another Buddhist state, swallowed up by India in 1975? Flooded by masses of Nepalese Hindu immigrants, the Sikkimese became a minority in their own country. Bullied by India into signing unequal treaties restricting its sovereignty, Sikkim finally was compelled to hold an election, which deposed its king and erased the country from existence; it was snapped up by India. Few even remember Sikkim today. But sadly, the same thing is being done to neighboring Bhutan. Soon the Buddhist kingdoms of Asia will be just a memory.
Unlike China, India is a democracy. And as a large, non-Muslim nation in Asia, it should be courted by America as an ally. But that doesn't make everything India has done right.

[Billy No Mates]

I hope the Tibetans scupper the whole Olympics,if i want to see a load of meat heads on roids i would just go drinking in Harlow i don't need it on my telly .

Whose to say the Tibetans wouldn't of reformed their society in their own way in their own time(like Bhutan is starting to)without the benevolence of the Chinese .

[FIA_cn]

Considering the fact that basis of human nature are similar regardless culture and historic heritage I'm more optimistic than you. Look how people from whole world can acclimatize themselves in USA, for example.

please check this, sir
http://joewong.blogspot.com/2007/07/difference-between-german-and-chinese.html

plus, I love american culture and the democracy sociaty, But as a Chinese who grow up in China, I am pretty sure the US system won't work well here, at least now. To reform of a sociaty and to blend into another culture is completely different.


Arguments used by you are typical government argumentation (I remeber the same from school from 1980's), from among more, to keep people obedient. Polish democracy differ from British or Argentinian, for example, couse of historic heritage. But still in those countries people can decide about themselves and have influence ofer local and national authorities.

I am obedient because I see the hope and I am enjoying the continuous improvement of living standard, you'll get the same answer from most of mainland people, or the statistic chart of China's booming econimic can tells a little.

so I want to know do you feel the same back to the 80's when they told you to obedience?

I am sincerely glad to see today's Poland is getting stronger and people's livehood is keep improving, I congratulate the achievement you are aquired. see, there is something we share the same.

[hydropod]

Nice to know some members here actually supports racial violence and wants to see as many Han Chinese killed as they can.

News have it that the mobs had been delibrately targetting PAP and police officers, attempting to provoke the authorities. Some articles have stated that hundreds of policemen/women and PAP officers and men had been injured so far, some with severe burns.

At least the facade of the "peaceful independence movement" as propangated by the west for all these years had been pulled down with the killings of uniformed police officers, firefighters, and innocent Chinese civilians. The lamas inciting and leading these riots are just blood-thristy as their serf-owning, slave-killing forefathers in mediaval times.

Lastest news: Crackdown is about to begin. PAP mobile divisions had been deployed from barracks, and APCs have begun patrolling the streets. From the announcements they are making, seems like marshal law will be in declared on midnight 17th of March 2008, with an amesty for surrender till the same time. Also, the number of dead Chinese from the violence on 14th of March had been officially confirmed at 10. They include one teenage girl, one hotel attendant and two stallholders. ALL were burnt to death.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46365&stc=1&d=1205580463

[hydropod]

All hail the "peaceful protesters" of Tibet! Lets all kick a fireman while he is down!

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Hey if Britain can be criticized for its' vicious colonial past then China can be criticized for its' vicious colonial PRESENT! :)

It's only fair after all.

[FIA_cn]

yeah and american masscare indians for occupy their lands.

It's only fair after all.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

yeah and american masscare indians and occupy their lands.

It's only fair after all.


So you agree that kind of thing is wrong - and that your government's practice of it is also wrong then?
;-)

Be careful when you reply and say you agree - 'The Great Firewall' will be watching and waiting.:)

[daily666]

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7329/ttlogoyp1.jpg

:)

[daily666]

China sets Tibet protest deadline
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/bbc_logo.gif
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7297911.stm


The authorities in Tibet have given anti-Chinese demonstrators until Monday to surrender, following violence that officials say left 10 people dead.

"The plot of the separatists will fail," the head of Tibet's government warned as security forces patrolled the main city, Lhasa.

State media said the 10 killed in Friday's clashes had included business people who were "burnt to death".

But exiled Tibetan leaders put the death toll higher and blamed China.

"We have unconfirmed reports about 100 people had been killed," said a statement from the Tibetan government in exile, which is based in northern India.

International concern

James Miles, a British journalist in the city, said there were some clashes on Saturday morning, were not on the same scale as Friday.

Police used tear gas to disperse demonstrators defying a curfew in the old quarter of the city, he said.

Police later cordoned off the city centre.

"Lhasa is completely closed and there is Chinese military all over," Danish tourist Bente Walle told ******* news agency.

In a statement quoted by the state-run news agency Xinhua, the Tibetan government urged "the lawbreakers to give themselves in by Monday midnight" and promised that "leniency would be given to those who surrender".

Tibetan government Chairman Qiangba Puncog denounced the "plot of the separatists".

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44492000/gif/_44492976_lhasa_monast_203b.gif

"We will challenge them firmly, according to law," AFP news agency quoted him as saying.

He said no shots had been fired by police since the start of the unrest.

Officials told Xinhua that those killed on Friday were "all innocent civilians" - among them hotel employees and shop owners.

However a Tibetan in Lhasa told ******* news agency on Saturday: "If there is blood today it will be ours."

Western countries have expressed concern at the clashes, and US officials called on the Chinese to act with restraint.

The violence - the worst in Tibet since 1989 - erupted on the fifth day of largely peaceful protests that began on Monday's anniversary of a 1959 uprising against Chinese rule.

Fires broke out near the famous Jokhang temple, one of the most sacred sites for Tibetan Buddhists, and Xinhua reported that shops, banks and hotels were destroyed.

'Long-simmering resentment'

News agency pictures aired on Saturday showed young men setting fire to a Chinese flag and throwing rocks, while state media said police had fired tear gas to disperse protesters.

One eyewitness reported seeing people being carried away on stretchers.

The demonstrations - like last those September in Burma - were initially led by Buddhist monks and then attracted crowds of ordinary people.

From exile in India, the Dalai Lama called for an end to the violence and urged China to "address the long-simmering resentment of the Tibetan people through dialogue".

Chinese officials quoted by Xinhua alleged that the riots had been "organised, premeditated and masterminded by the Dalai clique" - which the spiritual leader denied.

On Saturday, Tibetan exiles staged protests in several countries, including Australia and India.

BBC China editor Shirong Chen in Beijing says the Chinese government does not want bloodshed five months before staging the Olympic Games.

On the other hand, it cannot allow the monks and other Tibetans to vent their anger in case this is seen as a sign of weakness, he says.

Many Tibetans claim their culture has been diluted or even destroyed by Beijing and they resent the local presence of Han Chinese, China's biggest ethnic group.

China says Tibet has always been part of its territory, although Tibet enjoyed long periods of autonomy before the 20th Century and many Tibetans remain loyal to the Dalai Lama, who fled in 1959.

[SS1983]

"Independence for the Aboriginals! What would happen if some groups of Aboriginals (nyoongars, kooris etc) suddenly declared independence and tried to kick other Australians off their land violently? The government would retaliate with force of course to protect its citizens. That is exactly what the Chinese government is doing. Its seems that no one can understand the issues in the world today unless they are put into perspective. I didn't see any australians boycotting the 2000 olympics even though aboriginals were living in extreme poverty and suffering enormously while everyone else was(and still are) exploiting their resources??? Double standards??? or are most australians just uneducated bogans?"

I need an answer.

[hydropod]

LOL the great firewll.....
"Anyone who post in support of China is a commie agent or brainwashed commie.
Chinse have no access to internet, so everyone is under the "great firewall"
Chinese government likes to crack down and kill its citizens for fun. ...."

Happy now? Sometimes I wonder who is the real "brainwashed" person. A large majority of Chinese posters posting on English forums have at least studied in /visited some foreign nations, if not live there. Yet most of the Wester posters commenting on China never ever set foot in China. Yet because they are living in a democracy, they must knew China and its histories better than the Chinese themselves, afterall, China has total control of citizens, and negative news never reaches our ears, right?

Guess poor brainwashed me have to wait for the daily broadcast from the loudspeakers hung at the street to teach me today's revolutionary lessons.
roflroflroflrofl

[Military-G]

Kind of to echo what the last poster said .. You have to wonder whether the insults and china bashing stem from jealousy to be honest. They are progressing fast, and will be the worlds superpower within time .. this obviously erks certain people in certain places. No their human rights arent good but ... lets find a country on the planet (including our civilised amazing home nations) that arent accused of violating human rights eh????? :|

Always easy to take a cheap shot at the Chinese .... Why these same people that moan about China with every oppertunity that arises dont show an ounce of care for what mugabe is doing to the population of zimbabwe for example? Oh its not important is it ...

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Guess poor brainwashed me have to wait for the daily broadcast from the loudspeakers hung at the street to teach me today's revolutionary lessons.


Yes - now run along and be a good little serf rofl

[FIA_cn]

So you agree that kind of thing is wrong - and that your government's practice of it is also wrong then?
;-)

Be careful when you reply and say you agree - 'The Great Firewall' will be watching and waiting.:)

No, I just stated a fact.

China exiled DaLai because he was the biggest salve holder of old Tibet who running the slavery domination.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

No, I just stated a fact.

China exiled DaLai because he was the biggest salve holder of old Tibet who running the slavery domination.

That's an amusingly revisionist perspective - the Chinese government as anti slavery campaigners. LOL

They weren't so fussy about 'slavery' when they sent millions to work themselves to death in the fields during The Great Leap Forward etc though were they.

[daily666]

That's an amusingly revisionist perspective - the Chinese government as anti slavery campaigners. LOL

They weren't so fussy about 'slavery' when they sent millions to work themselves to death in the fields during The Great Leap Forward etc though were they.

That Great Leap Forward which killed 14 to 40 million of Chinese citizens? No way!

[Military-G]

^Seriously if we are going to keep going back in history then there are far worse examples we could bring up and pretty obvious ones at that .. of slavery, extermination etc carried out by all of our nations ... cheap digs at China in my opinion.

[Ozzy[NO]]

^Seriously if we are going to keep going back in history then there are far worse examples we could bring up and pretty obvious ones at that .. of slavery, extermination etc carried out by all of our nations ... cheap digs at China in my opinion.

You can't change the past, but you can change the present.

[Paparazzi]

All hail the "peaceful protesters" of Tibet! Lets all kick a fireman while he is down!

damn! that s dispiteous! hope he is okey:|

[BugHunt]

;3110615']You can't change the past, but you can change the present.


Yep and you might decided to take the boot off the throat of the tibetans, the raping of there natural rescources and support for a genocidal regieme in Sudan....

Lets forget about ol' sweet N Korean Kimmy for amoment.


But then again if we all ignore things and politely look the other way - say for a few decades it WILL be "just" history! woot

[Lerclair]

Hey if Britain can be criticized for its' vicious colonial past then China can be criticized for its' vicious colonial PRESENT! :)

It's only fair after all.Errr.... Ireland and Scotland ?

[Lerclair]

"Independence for the Aboriginals! What would happen if some groups of Aboriginals (nyoongars, kooris etc) suddenly declared independence and tried to kick other Australians off their land violently? The government would retaliate with force of course to protect its citizens. That is exactly what the Chinese government is doing. Its seems that no one can understand the issues in the world today unless they are put into perspective. I didn't see any australians boycotting the 2000 olympics even though aboriginals were living in extreme poverty and suffering enormously while everyone else was(and still are) exploiting their resources??? Double standards??? or are most australians just uneducated bogans?"

I need an answer.Nay... wouldn't catch any attention here. I recommend Hawaii, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and Florida... oh ! I forgot the Lakotas tribe. China should covertly funnel funds, arms and support such groups, and trains them in some secret military establishment. Even gives them a top medal.. like the Dalai Lama got. Learn a page from the Americans.

Simply a lack of empathy.

[Billy No Mates]

Errr.... Ireland and Scotland ?

What about them?.....

[Lerclair]

What about them?.....If they wanted.. can they get their independence now?

[pave_hawk]

LOL the great firewll.....
"Anyone who post in support of China is a commie agent or brainwashed commie.
Chinse have no access to internet, so everyone is under the "great firewall"
Chinese government likes to crack down and kill its citizens for fun. ...."

Happy now? Sometimes I wonder who is the real "brainwashed" person. A large majority of Chinese posters posting on English forums have at least studied in /visited some foreign nations, if not live there. Yet most of the Wester posters commenting on China never ever set foot in China. Yet because they are living in a democracy, they must knew China and its histories better than the Chinese themselves, afterall, China has total control of citizens, and negative news never reaches our ears, right?

Guess poor brainwashed me have to wait for the daily broadcast from the loudspeakers hung at the street to teach me today's revolutionary lessons.
roflroflroflrofl
hydropod, save your energy and do not argue with this gentleman. Every time, when you want to talk something seriously with him, he will give you a hat saying your are a commie serf or robot. Really need not bother...

[lenovo]

The picture on the left side was the very famous one about Tibet riots cited in CNN's news while the right one is the original picture which shows some Tibetans( or Monks?) were attacking Chinese cops by throwing stones to the police vehicles.

Can anyone explain why this picture is truncated and the truth is manipulated by the popular medias in a democracy country?


http://i26.tinypic.com/2u56veq.jpg

[Billy No Mates]

If they wanted.. can they get their independence now?

The Scots could leave the union if they wanted to and a political process is underway to resolve the situation in Northern Ireland the same cant be said of Tibet so im not at all sure why you compared them .

[Herrmannek]

You see my dear friend.. Democracy isn't about people not manipulating information... but about fact you can choose manipulator that "swings" news to your liking... So to answer your question... If you don't like whats CNN is showing press NEXT on your remote control :)

[Lerclair]

The Scots could leave the union if they wanted to and a political process is underway to resolve the situation in Northern Ireland the same cant be said of Tibet so im not at all sure why you compared them .I have the opinion that it's not going to happen.

I did it because of the direction of this tread. One post stated that the Brits give up India (without considering the economical state of Britain at the of WWII), but why not Northern Ireland and Scotland ? Then came the United kingdom. Because of proximity, no Colonial powers gave up any state just next to them. Neither would China.

[FIA_cn]

^Seriously if we are going to keep going back in history then there are far worse examples we could bring up and pretty obvious ones at that .. of slavery, extermination etc carried out by all of our nations ... cheap digs at China in my opinion.

so do you like to give the power to DaLai and let him "free" Tibet back to slavery? He is not going to "free" Tibet people but the slaveocracy.


That Great Leap Forward which killed 14 to 40 million of Chinese citizens? No way!

yeah there were bad things happend, what we shold do is to aviod them happend again. China is under sound developing today, so as a Chinese I myself don't want to see China break apart and fall into chaos.

[Satellite Weapon]

non-violent Tibetans ? Try this one : CIA supported, CIA trained, and finally CIA used and betrayed the Tibetan
http://www.youtube.com/v/tOhDBo6x2ZY


Thanks to those Hollywood freaks there is an unlimited supply of BS on this Tibetan issue. There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the **** end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere. Of course there are Japanophiles like Nano who claim China should be broke into pieces. If China were not communist today, nobody would be saying crap about Tibet. The Lama himself is not without his own Chinese skeletons, links to terroism, oppression of Shugden people, holding hands with the doomsday terrorist leader Asahara who had plans to nerve gassed the people of Tokyo, a doomsday cult that had plans to start a third world war. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6505/5s1cvv2.jpg
Maybe someone other freaks want to split China to several parts, just like the Iranians plan to do in Iraq

The Lama just does his gig for the money and VeryexSTAB has always been a big Lama fanatic. Tibet could have taken the diplomatic route but they chose war and it did not go down so well for them. The world is going to be pragmatic on Tibet, they are just another bunch of people that got f-ed over like the Kurds etc everybody wants to do business with China these days. Tibet's biggest bloody war of 'resistance' waged 1950, 60s they were backed by the US and CIA and they failed, Tibet tried the revolt with militia tactics, planting bombs, they lost...once China saw they Tibetans blowing up stuff the PLA rolled in the soldiers, they were brutally crushed and they failed. Operation Shadow Circus - another CIA disaster in Asia. If you lose a war, you lose land just like Syria lost the over Golan Heights. Now the Tibetans just sound like a bunch of sour losers. The west certainly never saw Tibet as an independent country, its only after KMT lost the civil war did Tibet suddenly become important but the funny thing is on the issue of Tibet even the Taiwanese agree it is part of China.


so do you like to give the power to DaLai and let him "free" Tibet back to slavery? He is not going to "free" Tibet people but the slaveocracy.


it was never a democracy or free, but that does not excuse China's cruel treatment of the people living there

[Billy No Mates]

Can anyone explain why this picture is truncated and the truth is manipulated by the popular medias in a democracy country?


http://i26.tinypic.com/2u56veq.jpg

Because we running dog imperalists want to destroy China and enslave its people,or because the image has been cropped for convenience like millions of other images...pick whichever one you fancy .

[lenovo]

The problem is no mater which TV channel you switch, you won't be able to see the original picture. In other words, all medias in the U.S are sort of being manipulated when reporting events in China.

Do you mean that people in a democracy country are not supposed to know the truth? And when you blame China government's brainwashing propagandas, have you ever thought that your country is doing exactly the same thing?



You see my dear friend.. Democracy isn't about people not manipulating information... but about fact you can choose manipulator that "swings" news to your liking... So to answer your question... If you don't like whats CNN is showing press NEXT on your remote control :)

[lenovo]

Because we running dog imperalists want to destroy China and enslave its people,or because the image has been cropped for convenience like millions of other images...pick whichever one you fancy .

"cropped for convenience" good explanations.

Just like the massive destruction weapons will be found sooner or later, for now, we just use some truncated pictures as proofs.

[lenovo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/15/tibet.china2

'Oh my God, someone has a gun ...'

This is an eyewitness account of a foreign resident in Lhasa who took refuge in a hotel close to the centre of the Tibetan capital yesterday. The city was gripped by violence after protesters and police clashed
"Oh my God. Oh no. That's crazy. One hundred people are trying to stone one man. A man was trying to cross the street with his motorcycle - they were trying to stone him but it's so crowded I can't see whether they got him or not.
"We came out for a walk about at about five today. I knew something was happening because there were a lot of people on the street. We were on Sera Street, which goes to the [Klukang] monastery. It sounds like the noise came from there; it sounds like at first they had been fighting in the temple.
"We saw people running and people in this hotel told us to get in quickly as the crowd was coming. They seem OK here, maybe the owner is Tibetan. All the other hotels have smashed windows.
"The residents are very angry. They are throwing stones at anyone who is Han [Chinese] or from other minorities like the Hui, who are Muslims. It seems like it's ethnic - like they want to kill anyone not Tibetan.
"I would say it's a riot here but I think in the centre it's worse. There's a lot of smoke - we can see it where there have been burnings. I heard people saying the authorities were firing, using guns. We don't know.
Here we have seen people trying to stone anyone they can - Han and other minorities, not foreigners. The Tibetans had stones and knives. I saw Chinese people running away - there was nothing they could do.
"We don't see any police around here. Maybe they're all in the centre and are too busy. It's very violent.
"Oh my God. Someone has a gun in front of me. There's a group of about 20 people - two of them have handguns. They are walking the street.They're shooting. They didn't have uniforms, but the way they were in a group I thought maybe they were police. They went down the street and the first one fired, that's for sure - I think the others did; there was so much noise I can't be sure. Then some of the citizens threw stones, but not at them - in the other direction. So I don't know if they were police or maybe Tibetans.
"I have just been out to get my things. We are staying at the hotel tonight. There are still people on the streets but only Tibetans - if they see anyone
Chinese they throw stones.
"Three times people raised their arms and then when they saw I was white they stopped it. The thing that surprised me most was that I saw no police or soldiers.
"I saw three people assaulting a man - I was 50 metres away, but I think he was Chinese. They kicked him and then one man had a knife and used it. He was lying on the floor and the man put the knife in his back, like he wanted to see he was dead.
"I had to get away, there were people throwing stones.
"When I came back he was gone - I don't know if he's dead. Then I saw people who had obviously been beaten or stoned. There wasn't blood on them but they were so shocked.
"This area used to be a place where Tibetans and the Chinese were friendly.
"I think this is going to get worse. One person told me 300 people have died in the city centre [the Guardian has no information to substantiate this claim]. I just don't know."

[BloodyTalon]

Maybe if did something on this forum other than post propaganda for 7 cents a post, you'd see that us Americans do in fact have access to the original photos AND photos that your government has taken that shows the damage some of the protesters have done to local shops and business:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3110369#post3110369

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7298022.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3554,00.html#16_385

What you don't understand is that here in the west we don't have a single news source that the population follows without question. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alternatives (tv shows, magazines, radio stations, websites, blogs, etc.) that we can freely access. Did CNN crop that photo to manipulate the story? Probably; its not like they haven't done this the past (especially when a certain moonbat named Cindy Sheehan was all over the news), but again, CNN isn't the ONLY source of the news in the US. That's one of the benefits of not having the government prevent people from freely browsing the internet.

[Herrmannek]

The problem is no mater which TV channel you switch, you won't be able to see the original picture. In other words, all medias in the U.S are sort of being manipulated when reporting events in China.

Do you mean that people in a democracy country are not supposed to know the truth? And when you blame China government's brainwashing propagandas, have you ever thought that your country is doing exactly the same thing?
Difference is here People choose what they want to be brainwashed with. If someone wants he can go to chinanews.cn* and get true unaltered picture and a bunch of other lies too :) . If not he cal watch CNN selling him lies he want to hear... Or maybe he can watch both and decide whats is crap and whats not... Anyway I like to be lied by Fox :)


*or whatever its called

[Billy No Mates]

"cropped for convenience" good explanations.

Just like the massive destruction weapons will be found sooner or later, for now, we just use some truncated pictures as proofs.

What are you going on about or are you going in for the scatter gun approach to debate by slinging in things that have nothing to do with the topic in hand?,well in that case(but still more relevant than yours)do you have untruncated pictures that prove the protesters at Tianamen square were actually throwing stones before they were killed? .

[lenovo]

Well, I happened to watch a video that shows protesters throwing stones to police/army vehicle and two PLA soldier in the truck got killed near Tiannamen square. Other than that, the protesters also beat the cops and PLA soldiers, burned the buses and destoried many other public facilities. Well, I am not saying that China government shouldn't take responsibility for the death in Tiannamen squares, but I believe you never saw this video in west media and newspaper, did you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv3Qmamsv84






What are you going on about or are you going in for the scatter gun approach to debate by slinging in things that have nothing to do with the topic in hand?,well in that case(but still more relevant than yours)do you have untruncated pictures that prove the protesters at Tianamen square were actually throwing stones before they were killed? .

[lenovo]

First, I can't find that truncated or original photo in the articles of bbc and foxnews though other photos are posted there.

Second, I don't think militaryphotos.net is a media. Instead, it is just a forum run by some military fans. If forums are also counted, I also have proofs that Chinese people have access to different sources since there are two million Chinese forums and BBS. At least we can read English so we have more choices than you because you can't read Chinese websites.

Btw, as for 7 cents per post, that is certainly my part-time job. I probably earn much more than you because my investment in Chinese A stock market went up 600% in the last two years.


Maybe if did something on this forum other than post propaganda for 7 cents a post, you'd see that us Americans do in fact have access to the original photos AND photos that your government has taken that shows the damage some of the protesters have done to local shops and business:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3110369#post3110369

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7298022.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3554,00.html#16_385

What you don't understand is that here in the west we don't have a single news source that the population follows without question. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alternatives (tv shows, magazines, radio stations, websites, blogs, etc.) that we can freely access. Did CNN crop that photo to manipulate the story? Probably; its not like they haven't done this the past (especially when a certain moonbat named Cindy Sheehan was all over the news), but again, CNN isn't the ONLY source of the news in the US. That's one of the benefits of not having the government prevent people from freely browsing the internet.

[rajkhalsa]

Jesus... over a hundred dead?

I can't believe the pussies running the Indian government are bending over backwards to China. Hasn't India already ****ed over the Tibetans enough with its apathy. Seeing pictures of peaceful protests broken up pisses me off to no end!

It's amazing, because the Tibetan cause is supported by nearly universally by all Indians, and calling His Holiness the Dalai Lama revered in India is a stupid silly understatement

[STIG]

No surprise there...the current Indian government relies on the Indian commies to stay in power and I think its pretty obvious who the commies take their orders from.

[Herrmannek]

I also have proofs that Chinese people have access to different sources. At least we can read English so we have more choices than you because you can't read Chinese websites.

IS there anything worth reading in the Chinese Internet :)

Now serious question... I'm looking for fan sites/forums of Chinese motorcycles users from China. I don't need to understand a bit, just want to know if such sites exist and have links to them for future reference... if you are buisy forget I've asked. And if you are interested why I asked. I'm going to buy one of your bikes pretty soon .. Why I want to buy it and not something brandname? I haven't invested in A stock companies of China :)

[gaijinsamurai]

You have convinced me, Lenovo. All this talk about Chinese human rights abuses in Tibet is merely a capitalist tool to destroy the Peoples Republic.
I will write a self-criticism for being a Capitalist Roader.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, all I know from german TV news was, that it is rumored that at least 100 people got killed by the roits and that the China shows the violent fights but didnt show the peaceful protests by monks.

Thing is, how could it escalate then? Rumros have it, that Chinese soldiers opend fire on the peaceful demonstants, but I somehow doubt that, because China isnt that dumb to mess up thier Olmypics with a massacre in Tibet.

My guess is that some hot bloods/radicals attcked the Soldiers/police and they returned fire escalating the whole situation. I also saw in TV that the Tibetians chased Chinese people to beat them up.

Its all a bit wired, no idea what to belive. But this whole thing comes to a critical time for China, so maybe "somone" wants to sabotage the Olympics?

[signatory]

The problem is no mater which TV channel you switch, you won't be able to see the original picture. In other words, all medias in the U.S are sort of being manipulated when reporting events in China.

Do you mean that people in a democracy country are not supposed to know the truth? And when you blame China government's brainwashing propagandas, have you ever thought that your country is doing exactly the same thing?

Utterly moronic. WE replace our governments on a regular basis in free elections and you have the nerve to compare that with the single-party dictatorship of China.

CNN:s TV reports about Tibet is blacked out in China. The Chinese state is censoring foreign news media. Something sick like that won't happen here in the free world. Good job being a party tool.

[tecumseh11]

Utterly moronic. WE replace our governments on a regular basis in free elections and you have the nerve to compare that with the single-party dictatorship of China.

CNN:s TV reports about Tibet is blacked out in China. The Chinese state is censoring foreign news media. Something sick like that won't happen here in the free world. Good job being a party tool.

But when did you last watch CCTV?

In democracies everything is "free" until people start doing them. Look at Kent State University. It is of course your democratic right to protest, but we're going to shoot you.

Look at Al Jazeera. It becomes popular. The media & government set up a campaign to educate the "people" that anyone who watches Al Jazeera is a Muslim sympathiser and possible terrorist.

[lenovo]

Though I haven't visit any Chinese motocycles forum before, I did find some in google. You can use google translater to translate the content from Chinese to english.

http://motorcycle.sh.cn/
http://www.mtuo.com/
http://www.amoto.cn/
http://www.motor120.cn/
http://www.7mt.org/index.php
http://www.mt668.net/
http://motobykz.co.uk/Newmodelandprices.htm

摩托屋　　http://www.moto5.com/

开元机车　http://www.mot2.com/

雷霆机车　http://www.moto.net.cn/

封魔榜　　http://www.goforbroke.net

堡垄赛车　http://www.motogp.com.cn

哈尔滨摩托吧　http://moto0451.com/moto/

摩友世界　http://www.joinbike.com/

机车ＳＫＹ　http://www.motorsky.net/article/Defaultindex.ASP

机车杂货铺　http://www.51moto.com/

极速传说　　http://www.mp-moto.com/

雷霆机车　　http://www.moto.net.cn/

龙骑士　　　http://www.lqsmoto.com/

摩友天下　　　http://moto.sds.cn/

南京机车联盟　http://www.njgogogo.com/

骑士部落　　　http://www.rider-cn.com/

晴午车友　　　http://rzq.bbs.net

威风堂　　　　http://club.weifengtang.com/

悠游骑士　　　http://www.yoyomoto.com/

玩摩托也能成佛　http://www.m2cf.com/

摩托Ｅ族　　　http://www.moto168.com/

摩托吧　　　　http://www.moto８.net

飞龙机车　　　http://www.flmoto.net（小风诚意推荐！这是很不错的网站！！）

新动力　　　　http://hgmoto.com/

动力机车　　　http://www.2001motor.com/

群策网　　　　http://www.qcql.com/

永弛　　　　　http://www.mt8new.com/

武汉骑士联盟　http://74bike.8658.net/

思强摩托　　　http://www.sqmoto.com/

红炉车队　　　http://www.hlmtcd.com/

摩托ＹＥＳ　　http://www.motoyes.net/

时尚摩托周刊　http://www.ssmtzk.com/

摩托商情　　　http://www.mosuo.com/

拉风堂　　　　http://www.lft.name/

铁骑部落　　　http://www.moto369.com
You can use the following link to find more

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E6%91%A9%E6%89%98%E8%BD%A6%E8%AE%BA%E5%9D%9B


IS there anything worth reading in the Chinese Internet :)

Now serious question... I'm looking for fan sites/forums of Chinese motorcycles users from China. I don't need to understand a bit, just want to know if such sites exist and have links to them for future reference... if you are buisy forget I've asked. And if you are interested why I asked. I'm going to buy one of your bikes pretty soon .. Why I want to buy it and not something brandname? I haven't invested in A stock companies of China :)

[lenovo]

I am not going to convince anyone here. In fact, the only impossible thing on the internet is to convince other people and to change their minds.

However, we are able to show the evidences to to other people even they have different opinions than ours.

In fact, I personally enjoy the discussions and debates on mp. On current Chinese political and military forums, people have been devided into two groups: Pro-CCP/China gov and Anti-CCP/China. The comments on Chinese forums and websites are so dirty and racist that you can never image. The aggressive words such as fuxk you, fuxk CCP, fuxk US/Japan gov, overthrow China gov, nuke Taiwan, fuxk niggxx and rumors can be found in every post.

Anway, we don't trust neither CCP nor west news. For example, the word "CCTV" （China central TV) now has a special meaning in China, it refers to the contemptible, disgraceful and unreal things.
CCTV：原意指中国中央电视台。引申为动词表示用不正当手段损害他人利益的意思（尤指在投票或选举中），也可做形容词表示极度卑鄙无耻的意思




You have convinced me, Lenovo. All this talk about Chinese human rights abuses in Tibet is merely a capitalist tool to destroy the Peoples Republic.
I will write a self-criticism for being a Capitalist Roader.

[Danik]

But when did you last watch CCTV?

In democracies everything is "free" until people start doing them. Look at Kent State University. It is of course your democratic right to protest, but we're going to shoot you.

Look at Al Jazeera. It becomes popular. The media & government set up a campaign to educate the "people" that anyone who watches Al Jazeera is a Muslim sympathiser and possible terrorist.

You have just placed your seal of fail all over this thread.

Lenovo get over it, its one picture, there were probably 100 today that were cropped from all over the world.

[Henry's Fork]

But when did you last watch CCTV?

In democracies everything is "free" until people start doing them. Look at Kent State University. It is of course your democratic right to protest, but we're going to shoot you.

Look at Al Jazeera. It becomes popular. The media & government set up a campaign to educate the "people" that anyone who watches Al Jazeera is a Muslim sympathiser and possible terrorist.

You fail. Kent State was a one time only freak occurance.

Who are you trying to Jive?

[Maj C]

ask tank man, oh that's right nobody in China can see the picture...

http://www.sts.tu-harburg.de/projects/WEL/0911/bildtafeln/PetraW/images/Warhol_Mao.htm

[BloodyTalon]

First, I can't find that truncated or original photo in the articles of bbc and foxnews though other photos are posted there.
<--The Point


<--Your Head

Us Americans aren't being "brainwashed" into a Anti-everything-Chinese sentiment because we have hundreds of different sources that extend beyond news media. For instance, your posts can count as a source because you've shown evidence of CNN ****ing around with a photo.


Second, I don't think militaryphotos.net is a media. Instead, it is just a forum run by some military fans. If forums are also counted, I also have proofs that Chinese people have access to different sources since there are two million Chinese forums and BBS. At least we can read English so we have more choices than you because you can't read Chinese websites.
1. Oh wow, you know Chinese AND English. I never would've guessed. Well I know English as well as some Spanish, French, and German. Which means if we lived in a world where websites can't be translated by a third-party website. I have access to 3 times as many sources of info as you do! HOT DAMN DO I LOVE E-***** WAVING! (*sarcasm meter off)

3. There may be a quantity of Chinese websites in general, but does that really mean anything if they're all voicing the same sentiment? How many Chinese sites are out there that are either extremely critical of the PRC or support an organization that is unpopular in that country (Falun Gong, Free Tibet, etc.) that the average Chinese citizen can visit?


Btw, as for 7 cents per post, that is certainly my part-time job. I probably earn much more than you because my investment in Chinese A stock market went up 600% in the last two years.
Unless you are a stockbroker or day-trader, you aren't generating an instantaneous return from stocks. It's an investment, not a primary source of income.

Enjoy whoring yourself to the Chinese government for pocket change.

[pave_hawk]

Considering the fact that basis of human nature are similar regardless culture and historic heritage I'm more optimistic than you. Look how people from whole world can acclimatize themselves in USA, for example.

Arguments used by you are typical government argumentation (I remeber the same from school from 1980's), from among more, to keep people obedient. Polish democracy differ from British or Argentinian, for example, couse of historic heritage. But still in those countries people can decide about themselves and have influence ofer local and national authorities.
The biggest difference between Communist China and communist east Europe countries is that Chinese communists fought from grass root and got the victory, but the east Europe communists were manipulated by USSR. That's why CPP still get a lot of support in China, while east Europe communist counties collapsed.

[Switek]

The biggest difference between Communist China and communist east Europe countries is that Chinese communists fought from grass root and got the victory, but the east Europe communists were manipulated by USSR. That's why CPP still get a lot of support in China, while east Europe communist counties collapsed.

Hm, we colapsed thanks to Teheran and Jalta agreements... But we saved our honor besides this obvious allied betrayal... An this we dare to say that China is a simple a new prison of nations.

Free Tibet means free China.

[Henry's Fork]

Free Tibet means free China.

Well said.

[lenovo]

1. Oh wow, you know Chinese AND English. I never would've guessed. Well I know English as well as some Spanish, French, and German. Which means if we lived in a world where websites can't be translated by a third-party website. I have access to 3 times as many sources of info as you do! HOT DAMN DO I LOVE E-***** WAVING! (*sarcasm meter off)

If we are talking about issues of China, then the sources in Chinese are obvious more important than Spanish, French and German,right?
Btw, I can also speak and read some French though I'm not quite intested in it.


3. There may be a quantity of Chinese websites in general, but does that really mean anything if they're all voicing the same sentiment? How many Chinese sites are out there that are either extremely critical of the PRC or support an organization that is unpopular in that country (Falun Gong, Free Tibet, etc.) that the average Chinese citizen can visit?

Extremely critical of the PRC even the sentences like "overthrow Chinese government" are ALLOWED on non-state-owned sites such as www.tianya.cn (http://www.tianya.cn) (it is the largest forum and discussion board in China, almost 1 million new comments everyday) or www.cat898.com (http://www.cat898.com) (the largest political discussion forum in China). However, if you print FLG books and distrbute them to other peole in reality, then you will get into trouble.

The bottomline of China government is that you can do anything you want on the internet but do not impact the stability of society and they will improve according to the comments and complains but it doesn't want you to overthrow it.


I don't deny the fact that some keywords are censored on Chinese search engines, but that doens't mean that Chinese netizens don't know the truth. In fact, many of us know these issues more well than anyone of you.




Unless you are a stockbroker or day-trader, you aren't generating an instantaneous return from stocks. It's an investment, not a primary source of income.
Enjoy whoring yourself to the Chinese government for pocket change.

So far as I know, most Chinese people trading Chinese stocks are day-traders. Or you can call it week trader/month trader, short...You name it. Besides, the gain from stock trading in China is NOT included in the personal income tax.

[He219]

Looks like CHICOM propaganda & damage control is in internet overdrive ..
http://www.youtube.com/v/3Z0lAp7UaJU&hl=en
http://www.youtube.com/v/TAAyy_W0epA&hl=en

[Shadowstorm]

Hm, we colapsed thanks to Teheran and Jalta agreements... But we saved our honor besides this obvious allied betrayal... An this we dare to say that China is a simple a new prison of nations.

Free Tibet means free China.
X2. 100% agree with youn there.

[Ichabod]

Free Tibet means free China.

Don't agree.Free(independent?) Tibet does not necessarily change the regime in other parts of China.What do you mean by ''free'' Tibet?
And just a question(not flaming)someone might say that ''free tibet-free china'' is actually bourgeois freedom,what would you say to that?

[BloodyTalon]

If we are talking about issues of China, then the sources in Chinese are obvious more important than Spanish, French and German,right?
Btw, I can also speak and read some French though I'm not quite intested in it.
We're talking about access to news sources, which you claimed the Chinese are superior in since they are apparently all bilingual. Again, you completely missed the point; the important thing is that the Chinese are allowed to read differing opinions and then, if they share the same sentiment, express it both on the internet and in public.



Extremely critical of the PRC even the sentences like "overthrow Chinese government" are ALLOWED on non-state-owned sites such as www.tianya.cn (http://www.tianya.cn) (it is the largest forum and discussion board in China, almost 1 million new comments everyday) or www.cat898.com (http://www.cat898.com) (the largest political discussion forum in China). However, if you print FLG books and distrbute them to other peole in reality, then you will get into trouble.
At least there's some freedom of expression on the Internet. Too bad it apparently doesn't extend beyond that. There's no point in having free speech on the internet if it can't manifest itself in public.


The bottomline of China government is that you can do anything you want on the internet but do not impact the stability of society and they will improve according to the comments and complains but it doesn't want you to overthrow it.

I don't deny the fact that some keywords are censored on Chinese search engines, but that doens't mean that Chinese netizens don't know the truth. In fact, many of us know these issues more well than anyone of you.

Explain how distributing pamplets count as impacting "the stability of society."

Don't get me wrong; a government should do whatever it takes to protect the health and livelyhood of the majority in a situation like a protest that has spiraled into a riot, but its still wrong when that same government makes any form of public dissent that doesn't endanger the lives of others illegal.

Besides, if the Chinese citizenry doesn't like what the opposition is spouting, they can either ignore it or campaign against it. For example, the reason why skinheads and 9/11 truthers don't have any political clout in the US is because the overwhelming majority believe these people are wrong and refuse to support them, not because the police arrests anyone who hands out copies of the Turner Diaries or Loose Change.


So far as I know, most Chinese people trading Chinese stocks are day-traders. Or you can call it week trader/month trader, short...You name it. Besides, the gain from stock trading in China is NOT included in the personal income tax.
"Day-trader" is a term for anyone who buys stock and then quickly sells it as soon as it value rises in a short span of time (usually a few days, hence the name) rather than waiting in the long run to see if the value of the stock is considerably higher. It's usually a low return way of making a profit since the money gained is smaller.

edit: so much for the original photo not showing up in western media:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/tibet-burns-as-protests-defy-police/2008/03/14/1205472088728.html

[He219]

non-violent Tibetans ? Try this one : CIA supported, CIA trained, and finally CIA used and betrayed the Tibetan
http://www.youtube.com/v/tOhDBo6x2ZY
Excellent series on Tibetan resistance fighters.

Correction though, it was the Nixon Administration not the CIA that sold out Tibetan resistance fighters in return for diplomatic relations with Communist China. Every Administration since has followed suit, favoring trade with China (integration of Global Economies to the benefit of the Central Banks and the Money Masters behind them) over the plight of the occupied and oppressed. As for alluding that Tibetians are violent, understand that these Tibetan resistance fighters felt compelled to resist CHICOM social genocide at any cost.

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/v/Iwu5qYosTo0&hl=en)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/v/b2iaIcoHBl4&hl=en)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/v/zJYamwYSe2M&hl=en)
http://www.youtube.com/v/FviSTNWRgHU&hl=en
The Dalai Lama always promoted non-violence over armed struggle ..
Part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/v/8yMV0-KOY1k&hl=en)

http://www.dezh.de/imghosting/0cd5cc464150c3766652ade1b80f2f3c.jpg

The Dalai Lama, who received the Congressional Gold Medal, was joined by President Bush at the ceremony.
Photo: Doug Mills/THE NEW YORK TIMES
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2340/rtr1v0zhwv4.jpg

The Dalai Lama holds his U.S. Congressional Gold Medal as he talks with (from 2nd L-R) U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), U.S. Senate President Pro Tempore Robert Byrd (D-WV) and U.S. President George W. Bush moments after being presented the medal during ceremonies awarding the honor to Tibet's exiled spiritual leader in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol building on Capitol Hill in Washington October 17, 2007

We all know what happened next ..
Hong Kong and the US Navy.

[Xaito]

by the way I've seen the Dalai Lama in person - he visited my hometown and my school 10 years ago. :)

[sp2c]

Like it or not life has improved for the people of Tibet, they have industry, security, infrastructure, a new Qinghai-Railway.

did this industry, security, infrastructure and the new Qinghai-Railway come to Tibet for the Tibetans or for the Chinese moving to Tibet?

but you're right, those ingrates should be thanking China on their hands and knees for letting them be second rate citizens in their own land

[lenovo]

They form a strong, silent, peaceful circle around the police who keep the middle of the square open," wrote Steve Dubois and Ulrike Lakiere.
Very "Peaceful" Tibetan Protesters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFY1j8qs9mk

[He219]

Very "Peaceful" Tibetan Protesters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFY1j8qs9mk
Granted these are rioters. Reminds me of Riginald Denny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mw2Xg0DELc) back in '91.
Watch the entire clip and you see the 'victim' is frazzled, but unharmed. Tibetians lashing out.
Not hard to understand Tibetian grievances subjected to systematic social genocide.

http://www.youtube.com/v/lDpR4RQTyW8&hl=en

[muttbutt]

Anyone read on Chinese forums, apparantly this is all being conducted by the US/UK so they can boycott the olympics so as to not get "humiliated"...I love conspiracies LOL

Having had something similar here, basically the UK trying to colonise Ireland, plantations ect in the past, I can see why these people are pissed off, it must be the worst feeling in the World to have your nation stripped away and be as SP said second class citizens.

[LaoSexMachine]

Anyone read on Chinese forums, apparantly this is all being conducted by the US/UK so they can boycott the olympics so as to not get "humiliated"...I love conspiracies LOL

Having had something similar here, basically the UK trying to colonise Ireland, plantations ect in the past, I can see why these people are pissed off, it must be the worst feeling in the World to have your nation stripped away and be as SP said second class citizens.

Nothing but Chinese racism. They believe they are superior to all other Asians.

[tecumseh11]

Nothing but Chinese racism. They believe they are superior to all other Asians.

That's the Jap(anese) actually.

[LaoSexMachine]

That's the Jap(anese) actually.

In my experience it's the Chinese. Japanese people I have talked to and interact with were always cool with me.

[Shadowstorm]

Here we go again blaming Japan which has nothing to do with this subject.

[Shadowstorm]

Taiwan is condemning China actions against Tibetan people.

http://www.*******.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSTP272636

[Hawk of prairie]

Tibet is doomed to be freed,this is a long,difficult,sometime needs some bloods process,even chinese know it well
But if you are going to boycott their Olympics,they are really angry
:(
Very sad story that at least Tibet independance is on the way,but chinese controled mongolia still got no attention
:(

[Ought Six]

9mmR:
"Like it or not life has improved for the people of Tibet, they have industry, security, infrastructure, a new Qinghai-Railway. "Freedom" if not done correctly can be very over-rated, too much Freedom can be a bad thing. Freedom to see cult groups set up in your own town, have your kids exposed to drugs, freedom for some stranger to enter your neighborhood, your home Look at what Mr.MissionAccomplished achieved, yeah he dropped out of the sky to claim victory and helped push a plan to take out Saddam and his henchmen but we soon saw an Iraq falling into chaos. It took John Abizaid, Franks, Petraeus as well as thousands of injured or killed troops to save his ass from embarrassment and get Iraq back into working order. Freedom without security is anarchy !"Yes, the destruction of thousands of temples; the importation of hundreds of thousands of foreigners; the forced abortions of Tibetan babies; the banning of the teaching of Tibetan culture, religion and language; the ruthless suppression of all dissent; the thousands of political prisoners who only want their nation to be free again; it is all for the good. We love genocide and the total destruction of an ancient spiritual culture. The people are better off for it. Don't worry! Be happy!
:bash:

The attacks by Tibetans on ethnic Chinese are wrong, but a people get to the point where they have just had enough. I do not agree with their methods, but I understand their rage.

[maw]

The picture on the left side was the very famous one about Tibet riots cited in CNN's news while the right one is the original picture which shows some Tibetans( or Monks?) were attacking Chinese cops by throwing stones to the police vehicles.

Can anyone explain why this picture is truncated and the truth is manipulated by the popular medias in a democracy country?


http://i26.tinypic.com/2u56veq.jpg

it was probably cropped probably because they can't tell who's who and who's doing what to who. if a media outlet doesn't know the context behind a picture they shouldn't post it (general rule). if the aggressors in your pictures are indeed monks/tibetans the picture doesn't show what happened prior to the attack.

but here's my guesstimate of what happened: tibetans don't want the chinese in their country, so they try to protest, protest gets suppressed with force, tibetans respond with force, occupying chinese puppet government uses tibetans response as a justification to escalate the violence.

didn't we see something similar in myanmar recently?

regardless of the origin/outcome of this particular incident, when the body counts start rolling in you know it'll be 10-1 in favor of the police/military.

[hydropod]

9mmR:Yes, the destruction of thousands of temples; the importation of hundreds of thousands of foreigners; the forced abortions of Tibetan babies; the banning of the teaching of Tibetan culture, religion and language; the ruthless suppression of all dissent; the thousands of political prisoners who only want their nation to be free again; it is all for the good. We love genocide and the total destruction of an ancient spiritual culture. The people are better off for it. Don't worry! Be happy!
:bash:

The attacks by Tibetans on ethnic Chinese are wrong, but a people get to the point where they have just had enough. I do not agree with their methods, but I understand their rage.

Yup, and again we see the endless retorics of thos who never ever set foot in China or Tibet, and they all parrot the same lines fed to them.

Destruction of thousands of tibetan temples? Happened all across China during the cultrual revolution of 1960-1970. Not only to tibetans, all across China, buddest and taoist temples, islamic mosques are torn down as well. No one thanked Mao for that, but the action is not aimed at Tibetans in particular.

Force abortion? Maybe you don't even know that one-child policy don't even apply to Minorities? And from the 2006 cencus, the population grwoth of Tibetan ethnicality is 7 times that of the Hans?

The banning of the teaching of Tibetan culture, religion and language:
Pity then, the government must had been doing a piss-poor job of it, since 90% of Tibetan schools still teach in dual-language, must do something about that.

Then following some more of those rehtorics, its always how peaceful and "spiritial" lamas are and how Tibet should return to its old days. Go read a book on tibetan "buddest" lamas. The sect that tibetans practice it known as the most bloody of all buddest sects, with human and animal sacrifices part of its ritual. The lamas, unlike monks, are allowed to bed woman, eat meat and are allowed to kill.

You must be so longing to be a landless serf working for a lama, toiling under whips, handing over almost your entire harvest and live on pittance, and when you die, your scalp would also make a nice cover for his new drum and your skull can be a nice new drinking cup. Such a spiritual and peaceful life indeed.

Trying to white-wash the conducts of people who gang up and burn innocents from other ethnicality alive as seen on the riot of 14th of March and label them as peaceful is just pathetic.

[hydropod]

That's an amusingly revisionist perspective - the Chinese government as anti slavery campaigners. LOL

They weren't so fussy about 'slavery' when they sent millions to work themselves to death in the fields during The Great Leap Forward etc though were they.

At least get the facts right when you talk about those things..... The great leap forward is an effort to ramp up steel production, pretty useless to send people to work in the fields when you want more steel, no? 1957-59 was also had some of the best harvest ever in records.

People died from the famine in 1961-63, not during the great leap forward, though it is a major contributer, as the fields were negelected and harvests not made while everyone rushed off to melt iron to make steel.

Combined with the extremely in-efficient commnual mess trialed at that time which was extremely wasteful, it meant that very little of the harvests of 1957-59 was stored for any emergencies that may arise.

Then the drought started in 1960, people start to run out of food as none was stored, the communal mess were disbanded. It was too late, and the situation turned into horror, with 3 more years of drought in a row ruining harvests, and the resulting famine killing millions.

[Lerclair]

did this industry, security, infrastructure and the new Qinghai-Railway come to Tibet for the Tibetans or for the Chinese moving to Tibet?

but you're right, those ingrates should be thanking China on their hands and knees for letting them be second rate citizens in their own landunless, if you consider that Tibet is part of china, which you don't. I would say it's both parties.. unless you want the Tibetan region to remain improvished. Then you will say that the Chinese govt is neglecting the poor tibetan. It sucks both ways when it comes to China. Every single thing they does is wrong.

[FIA_cn]

9mmR:Yes, the destruction of thousands of temples; the importation of hundreds of thousands of foreigners; the forced abortions of Tibetan babies; the banning of the teaching of Tibetan culture, religion and language; the ruthless suppression of all dissent; the thousands of political prisoners who only want their nation to be free again; it is all for the good. We love genocide and the total destruction of an ancient spiritual culture. The people are better off for it. Don't worry! Be happy!


sir, find some bank note of China, and you can find Tibet character on every single one Chinese paper currency.

I never knew some destrution of thousand temples, my parents just tour there last year and find their temple is well maintained and few of them have golden roof -- yeah the whole building roof made my gold, and the temple tickect for tourist is far more expensive than tour places in east China.
They lodged at Tibet University's student dorm and the student there were very happy to see tourist from Beijing, they show off their homework proudly, some architectural model (their major is Architecture), and guide my father to some restaurant they like.

and sir, "genocide" is a heavy word, until you see the real Tibet through your own eyes but any media, plz don't come up with it that quick.

anyway, I'll post some last year tour photos at here later.

[Ought Six]

Tibet: Genocide and Ecocide (http://www.davekopel.com/env/entibet.htm)


by Dave Kopel


Sometimes environmentalists are accused of caring too much about trees and animals, and not enough about humans. The accusation misses the mark, however, because human rights and ecological consciousness are inseparable. The nations with the worst human rights abuses usually perpetrate the worst ecological abuses. The synergy of human and environmental oppression is particularly clear in Tibet, a formerly independent nation that was conquered in 1949 by Mao Zedong's "People's Liberation Army."

Among the worst atrocities inflicted on Tibet's ecology by the Chinese conquerors is deforestation. You can travel for days on the road along the Min Valley (a tributary of the Yangtse River), and see nothing but log jams in the river. On some roads into Lhasa from eastern provinces like Kham, 50 timber trucks may pass by in an hour. The Communist government makes virtually no effort at reforestation.

The Chinese dictatorship maintains a monopoly on timber-cutting, and reserves all profits for itself.

Visitors to Tibet in the late 1940s considered Tibet to have the most abundant big game population in the world.

But that population is being destroyed by Chinese government soldiers who hunt endangered species with machine guns. Przewalski gazelle, boars, wolves, mountain cats, musk deer, and many other species are being hunted to extinction.

The Tibetan Wild Yak, once as plentiful as the American Bison was on the Great Plains, had been reduced to a few hundred survivors. The Wild Ass used to roam Tibet in giant herds. Unafraid of humans, the herds would gallop alongside human riders for hours. The animals did not know to run from Chinese army, which hunts them with machine guns. After killing 50 or 60 animals, the "hunters" will harvest the meat of 2 or 3.

And as the forests fall to the Chinese chainsaws, wild animals become ever-easier prey for the hunters.

Lodi Gyari, President of a human rights group called the International Campaign for Tibet, says that the Tibetan province of U-Tsang is secretly used for testing of nuclear weapons. Births of deformed animals and humans in the region provide some evidence of the testing.

According to Gyari, China also imports nuclear waste from the West, and dumps it in Tibet.

Several months ago, the Chinese government announced that it was setting aside a large portion of northwest Tibet as a wilderness area. Gyari argues that the announcement was a cynical effort to distract attention from the proposal of the Dalai Lama (the leader of the Tibetan government in exile) to make all of Tibet a zone of non-violence, ending human violence against nature.

Gyari noted that the Chinese government has used seemingly benign ecological projects to harm the environment. For example, the Chinese raised large sums from the west for a panda preservation project, but employed much of the money to build a large infrastructure in wilderness regions, supposedly to observe the panda. Gyari feared the new wilderness designation of part of Tibet might provide a pretext for similar intrusions.

Lastly, said Gyari, Tibet for all of its years of independence had been a natural wilderness park. All the Chinese would have to do to preserve Tibetan wilderness would be to leave Tibet, he said.

As in other parts of the world, the dictatorship's crimes against nature are paralleled by crimes against humanity. Alexsander Solzhenitsyn calls the Chinese rule in Tibet "more brutal and inhumane than any other communist regime in the world."

One-sixth of the Tibetan population has been exterminated in prison camps or by starvation. Six thousand Buddhist monasteries, temples, and other cultural structures have been destroyed.

Chinese soldiers garrison every major town in Tibet to prevent rebellion. Elite soldiers watch the regular troops, to keep them from revolting.

Life in Tibet before the Chinese Communist invasion was pastoral, primitive, and peaceful. Now the majority of the population in much of Tibet is Chinese immigrants living in concrete apartment blocks.

President Bush led the United States into war against Saddam Hussein and his Hitlerian practices of genocide and ecocide. Yet the President has refused to take any action against the Chinese government, whose pillage of Kuwait is at least as destructive of human rights and the environment as was Saddam's pillage of Kuwait. Instead, President Bush has urged Congress to give "Most Favored Nation" trading status to China.

Granting China easy access to U.S. export markets exacerbates Chinese demand for Tibetan natural resources.

The American government has not always been so callous about Tibet. Until the early 1970s, the U.S. government provided a training camp for Tibetan freedom fighters near the Colorado mountain town of Leadville.

Tibet is far away, and we know little about its people. Yet the Chinese ecocide in Tibet threatens every one of us, as it destroys vast forests and promotes global warming. Almost all of the major rivers of Asia originate in Tibet. The ecocide of Tibet directly endangers the entire Asian continent.

One person working to inform the world about Tibet has been Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart. He has produced an album by, and organized a U.S. tour of the Tibetan Gyuto Monks. These Buddhist Monks, playing bells and other traditional Tibetan instruments, have brought to American audiences a taste of Tibetan sacred music -- music that is ruthlessly suppressed in Tibet itself.

Gyari called Hart's work in producing the Gyuto Monks tour "A very positive and very beautiful way" of raising consciousness. The music, Gyari said, "goes very well with the whole issue of Tibet, because we trying to bring a message of peace, understanding, and tolerance. There is no better way to express that than through the universal language of music. ...We need to reach the pocket sometimes, but more than that, we need to reach the heart."

Gyari asked Americans to learn more about Tibet, and to educate their fellow Americans. He said that while most Americans do not know much about Tibet, Americans who find out are always sympathetic.

The main organization promoting Tibetan freedom in the United States is the Gyari's group, The International Campaign for Tibet. You can become a member by sending $25 to 1511 K St., NW; Wash. DC, 20005 (202) 628-4123.

Another group is Bay Area Friends of Tibet. Contact them at 347 Dolores St., Suite 206, San Francisco, CA 94110. (415) 241-9197. Their latest project, "Eco-Tibet California," aims to raise consciousness about Tibetan ecological issues.

Finally, listen to the Tibetan Gyuto Monks album produced by Mickey Hart. And then imagine the non-violent culture that created this music being deliberately exterminated.

[Ought Six]

Ruthless campaign of cultural destruction (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/ruthless-campaign-of-cultural-destruction-796273.html)


By Barney Faulkner
The Independent
Saturday, 15 March 2008


If you go round any Tibetan monastery – and the Chinese authorities encourage tourists to visit them as a cultural attraction – the first thing your guide tells you is not to ask any questions about politics or Chinese rule. "There are always monks in their pay who'll report you and then I will lose my job." Indeed yes.

When I went to visit a highly revered Rinpoche in a Lhasa monastery, he had just been hauled in by the authorities after one of his students had reported him for making a potentially subversive remarks in a sermon. He seemed to accept it as just part of his life in the monastery.

When the Dalai Llama broke his usual diplomatic reticence this month to accuse the Chinese of "cultural genocide", he wasn't exaggerating. What is going on now is a cultural hollowing out of a Buddhist country which Beijing refuses to accept as anything more than a Chinese province.

Everything is being done to deprive it of independent strength or legitimacy. Chinese Han immigrants are being poured in so that, within the space of barely a decade, they now probably outnumber local Tibetans. Tourism and services are now virtually all controlled by Chinese companies. The train across the mountains is there to increase the rate of immigration. Han settlers are, according to the local Tibetans, given cash grants if they marry local Tibetans and allowed two children instead of one.

The monasteries are at the heart of this process of deliberate deracination. You have to go to Tibet to understand the reverence ordinary people hold for the monasteries and for the Dalai Lama and other religious figures. Every day they come from the countryside to proceed around the Potala palace of the Dalai Llama and the Jokhang temple in Lhasa, some by prostrating themselves through the whole route. Woe betide you if you are a student, a monk or a employee of the state or any of its enterprises. You lose your job.

The Chinese have made Potala, the most revered pilgrimage spot, into a museum, the monks excluded, the guards wholly secular. As for the monasteries, nearly all of which were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution, the monks have been allowed back and the buildings rebuilt but under strict control. Where once there were several thousand, the numbers are limited to a few hundred. Novices have to be approved by the authorities. The abbots are government appointed. As many as a third of the communities are thought to be in the pay of the security forces.

And yet it is the monks who remain the beacons of national resistance, who are prepared to demonstrate against what the Tibetans regard as Chinese occupation, who pull you aside to ask of news of the Dalai Lama and even a picture (you have to be careful as a tourist because some are leading you on), who continue to cry out that Buddhism in Tibet is not just a folk ritual, as the Chinese present it, but a living, evolving faith with the Dalai Lama as its head.

Can this culture survive being subsumed by the Chinese? Few Tibetans are optimistic. And yet, walking into one of the monasteries that are now the focal point of this revolt, I was taken aback by the sight of a young product of China's new rich, his hair groomed in a riot of colour and conflicting angles, his girlfriend dressed as a baby doll and his hand holding an elegant little prayer wheel.

Approaching the main statue, he glanced furtively to the left and to the right and then threw himself in full prostration before it, before hastily getting up again and resuming his tour. A whim? A bad joke? Or is the Buddhism that makes Tibet so special finding its admirers even in China? If it is, it would be a rare point of hope for the beleaguered people of this oppressed nation.

[Lerclair]

Anyone read on Chinese forums, apparantly this is all being conducted by the US/UK so they can boycott the olympics so as to not get "humiliated"...I love conspiracies LOLActually, I have that impression too.. the whole thing is well orchestrated. The rioters were moving in with rocks and molotov in their backpacks, and took place in afew areas in unision. Dalai Lama still have influence in some temples in Tibet.

They were trying to incite the local population to uprise and cause another "TianAnMent Square" situation. Already reading from BBC and American Media from experts from Exile Tibetans... typically saying that the local residents (as if the whole Tibet) are extremely discontented with the Chinese govt. But all sources points to just a few hundred rioters ! There are 6 million Tibetans, and I don't see them all pouring into the streets ? This also indicate that the general Tibetan population isn't all that discontended, as propaganded.

Luckily, for China, there were many foriegn tourist there as witness, and not foriegn journalist (esp BBC). Else, I would think the whole situation will be distorted. When it comes to china, I tends to discount sources from BBC, CNN, New York Times.. and various associated press. There are always two side of the stories.


Having had something similar here, basically the UK trying to colonise Ireland, plantations ect in the past, I can see why these people are pissed off, it must be the worst feeling in the World to have your nation stripped away and be as SP said second class citizens.The Tibetans don't seemed to second class citizens in Tibet. They have more priviledges than Hans. Even the Hui have better Priviledges.

[Lerclair]

In my experience it's the Chinese. Japanese people I have talked to and interact with were always cool with me.So, just because the Japanese are cool to just you, they are not ? Maybe it's your attitude towards the Chinese, and they sense your vibes.

Seriously,it is the Japanese who felt superior to all other Asians. Even today, the older generation still exhibit such amp. I still don't understand why Japanese hate the Chinese. The Chinese have done nothing to them thru out history. Yet historically it's the Japaness thats' the aggressor.

[LaoSexMachine]

So, just because the Japanese are cool to just you, they are not ? Maybe it's your attitude towards the Chinese, and they sense your vibes.

Seriously,it is the Japanese who felt superior to all other Asians. Even today, the older generation still exhibit such amp. I still don't understand why Japanese hate the Chinese. The Chinese have done nothing to them thru out history. Yet historically it's the Japaness thats' the aggressor.

My vibes? Please. Chinese people were the only one to tell me SE Asians are not smart compared to Chinese and how culturally superior they are towards SE Asians. I have a Chinese/Viet friend and his dad is one of the worst when it comes down to how superior the Chinese are. I'm probably one of the easiest guy to get along with.

[FIA_cn]

Tibet: Genocide and Ecocide (http://www.davekopel.com/env/entibet.htm)




by Dave Kopel



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Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth


(updated and expanded version, January 2007)

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html)

[Kilgor]

So, just because the Japanese are cool to just you, they are not ? Maybe it's your attitude towards the Chinese, and they sense your vibes.

Seriously,it is the Japanese who felt superior to all other Asians. Even today, the older generation still exhibit such amp. I still don't understand why Japanese hate the Chinese. The Chinese have done nothing to them thru out history. Yet historically it's the Japaness thats' the aggressor.

This topic has come up before...

Ive had over 10 years experience working with Chinese, and I can vouch for the fact they look down on "brown" skin Asians.

[FIA_cn]

How Serfs Suffered Forced Labor in Old Tibet


Fifty years ago, the Tibetan society comprised serfs and slaves (referred to as serfs), who constituted 95 percent of Tibet's total population, and the three kinds of manor lords (referred to as serf owners), who constituted 5% of the total population. The three manor lords were officials (of the local government), feudal lords and the upper stratum of the clergy. They owned all land in Tibet (including farmland, grassland, forests, mountains, rivers, river beaches and wasteland), serfs attached to land, and most livestock. In land distribution, the former Tibetan local government directly managed 40 percent of all land, and feudal lords and monasteries owned 30 percent each, whereas serfs basically had nothing. A folk song in Tibet sings: "Wherever rays of the sun reach, that is land belonging to the lord; wherever the water flows, that is land belonging to the lord; and wherever mountain shadows cast, that is land belonging to the lord. The serf does not own a piece of land the size of a sole. What he takes away is nothing but his own shadow." This landowning system inevitably led to economic exploitation of the serfs by serf owners. A principal form of such exploitation is corvee labor called wula in Tibetan.

Wula was a Turkic term. Originally, it refers to services provided by the central government of the Yuan Dynasty along the route between Tibet's Lhasa and Qinghai's Xining..Such services included the provision of horses to officials traveling along the route, transmission of official documents and transportation. Later, it evolved into a term referring to all gratuitous labor services in Tibet. It included corvee, poll tax and land tax. Corvee labor was the simplest and most primitive form of land tax in Tibet under the serf system. Serfs had to devote two-thirds of their time every year to laboring gratuitously on land owned by serf owners, all the while using their own farm tools and eating their own food. And they did labor service under the watchful eyes of feudal lords' agents, foremen and hatchet men, who were ready to punish any perceived disobedience with leather lashes and bludgeons.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030701.jpg
Aged slaves who were too old to work any more were driven out by the owners and became beggers.

According to customary law in Tibet, this corvee labor was divided into two major categories: one was labor services, those performed by people and animals (it is called gang zhuo in Tibetan, meaning labor performed on legs); the other consisted of goods and money (it is called na tun, meaning services given away with hand). Of corvee labor, gratuitous labor accounted for about 60 percent, and goods and money 40 percent. With regard to wula labor, a feudal lord would often say: "All land goes with corvee labor, and all serfs have a master." Serfs would say: "Whatever the lord says is wula labor;" and "Wula labor is as numerous as hairs on a yak."

To see how numerous wula labor was, we list the following common varieties in Tibet: woman serfs' labor, official-carrying labor, medicinal materials labor, dyestuffs labor, tiger skin labor, fruit labor, poll tax, paper labor, woolen felt labor, tilling labor, rapeseed oil labor, fuel labor, cattle dropping labor, egg tax, grass tax, mountain tax, broom tax, butchering tax, flower pot tax, scripture chanting fee, and god-inviting fee. These did not include land tax, special land tax and special corvee labor stipulated by the Tibetan local government.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030702.jpg
A dying orphan at Nyingchi in old Tibet.

In short, whatever was produced somewhere and it was needed by a serf owner, sure there would be a corresponding wula labor. And serfs owned by different feudal lords had to provide different labor services. This means serfs in different areas had different labor burdens. At the Zhangduo manor in Dazi County, for example, serfs had to provide 14 varieties of corvee labor. Calculated in grain equivalent, this exploitation accounted for 68 percent of the serfs' total incomes. And this is the serfs' external corvee labor only. They had to provide internal labor to feudal lords, too. Local serfs said: "Whatever serf owners needed for production and in their daily life, they would surely demand corvee labor from the serfs." Internal corvee labor accounted for more than 65 percent of a serf's total work time. In Tibet as a whole, the serfs were deprived of more than 80 percent of the fruit of their labor by way of wula labor. Serfs in Tibet endured untold sufferings under the wula labor system.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030703.jpg
A slave family who escaped to Lhasa had nowhere to stay but the street.

In Xaitongmoin County in Xigaze Prefecture, the sevenmember. Xuelong Dengzhu family tilled 3.5 ke of corvee land (a ke of land is land requiring 13 kg of seeds for reproduction). The entire family had to work all year round on land owned by their feudal lord. They scarcely had time left for their corvee land. When the sowing seasons came, they had to sow the lord's land first. When weeding became necessary, the lord's land had to be weeded first. When a drought hit, the lord's land was irrigated repeatedly but there was no way they could irrigate their corvee land. When barley turned yellow, they dared not begin harvesting on their own land before harvest had been completed on the lord's land. Their corvee land was of the poorest quality. They had no fertilizer for the land, nor had they time to do careful tilling. And that is why they could harvest very little from the corvee land. The family was busy throughout the year, but hunger and cold always accompanied them. The parents, taking their children, had to run away. But wherever they went, they continued to work for feudal lords, went begging and continued to suffer from hunger and cold.

Caiwang Erzhu used to live in Rixi township in Qamdo's Ningjing County. From his grandfather's time, his family was a labor-providing household for the county government. The four-member family tilled 20 ke of land but, because the land was largely infertile, it yielded little. Every year the family harvested slightly more than 60 ke of grain (about 810 kg) from the 20 ke of land (Surveys show that a ke of seeds yielded only 4-5 ke of harvest on average in old Tibet). Of the 60 ke of grain, half was turned over to the county government, leaving only about 30 ke for the family itself. The family lived a half-starved life all the year round. In slack seasons or in winter, Erzhu's parents worked elsewhere or went begging. When they became really desperate, they had to borrow money from feudal lords.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030704.jpg
Whomen slaves also had to carry loads as heavy as more than 100 kilograms.

Corvee providers for monasteries had the same fate as those working for the government and feudal lords. Caiwang Gongbu was a corvee provider for a small lamasery in Qamdo called Gushe. His family of five tilled 15 ke of land owned by the lamasery. Aside from turning over grain to the lamasery as land rent, the family had to pay a firewood fee and a grass fee, which were equivalent to 10 taels of Tibetan silver in value. But greater burden came in the form of corvee labor the family had to provide to the local government and Tibetan soldiers. And they had to report for service whenever they were called and give whatever was required, all the year round. For example, they were asked to give money, firewood, grass, cattle, animal droppings, butter, meat, woolen felt and wool. They had to buy whatever was not available at home and, if they couldn't afford, they had to borrow money. Every year, the family, in addition to providing labor services to the lamasery, had to contribute 200 taels of Tibetan silver worth of goods and services to the local government and Tibetan soldiers, which amounted to more than 300 ke of grain.

Among serfs were a group called dul qiong, which means "small households" in Tibetan. A dui qiong mainly tilled a small piece of land owned by a feudal lord or the feudal lord's agent. In return for the right to till the land, the household provided labor services for the feudal lord or his agent. This was a pure form of labor rent. For such households, the burden of labor rent was even heavier than that for ordinary labor-providing households. Land rented to dui qiong households usually accounted for 5-10 percent of a feudal lord's total land. Compared with ordinary laborproviders, dui qiong led an even more miserable life and had an even lower social status.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030705.jpg
A lang sheng(slave) family doing weaving covee in old tibet.

Nixia lives in Dengda village in Qamdo's Zogang County. His family's dui qiong status dated back to his grandfather's time. His parents died of hunger and disease when he was still young. At the age of 20, he found himself all alone and remaining a dui qiong to Lord Dengda Cang. He tilled half a ke of rented land and, together with other serfs in the village, tilled 70 ke of land owned by Lord Dengda. All their labor on the lord's land, from spring sowing to autumn harvest, was free. Yield from his rented land could last him no more than three months. He had to go begging after he had run out of supplies. Even as such misery dogged him, he had to pay dozens of taxes (labor services), including a water service, a grass service, a poll tax and a sunbathing service. He served Lord Dengda for more than 40 years. Nixia recalls: "One day, the local government tried to draft my son to the Tibetan army. Implorations from our family of four produced no result. They seized my son, who was trying to escape, and beat him up. When I tried to protect my son, they hacked my head twice with a knife. Blood rolled down my head and I lost consciousness. My son was taken away and I gradually became blind."

Slaves (called long sheng in Tibetan, meaning "fed at home") had neither means of production nor freedom of the person. They were feudal lords' personal property. Feudal lords called them "animals able to speak." Their children continued to be slaves. The following two examples show what a miserable life slaves in old Tibet used to live.

Duo Zhawa lives in Yamu township in Xigaze, s Ngamring County. His parents used to rent a small piece of land from a feudal lord. But because they couldn't pay back their debt, the landlord took back the land. His parents became migrating beggars. To make a living, they sold themselves to Lord Losang Wang as slaves at the price of a cake of tea and some used clothes. From then on, both served the lord's household day and night, and they had not enough to eat and wear. When Zhawa was ten years old, the lord sent him to northern Tibet to pan for gold. He was given a sheng (about a liter) of highland barley each day and a cake of tea each month, nothing else. He was ordered to pan for at least four qian of gold (about 20 grams) within four months. At the time, the gold was worth 2,700 taels of Tibetan silver, whereas the life expenses he received from his lord were worth just 200 taels. In nine months, the feudal lord could get a net profit of 2,500 taels of Tibetan silver from this child slave. The rate of exploitation was 90 percent. Because he worked in hunger, Duo Zhawa contracted serious gastroenteritis and felt pain in the stomach all the time. As he always stood knee-deep in water, he had arthritis and could barely walk. His younger brother was also a slave. He was raped and beaten to death by the feudal lord.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030706.jpg
A serf whose left arm was cut off by the serf owner in old Tibet.

A man called Danzhen lives in Nedong County in Shannan Prefecture. His ancestors were all slaves. He herded 150 pigs for Lord Shangdeng at a very young age. When he was 12, there was a downpour, and four piglets were frozen to death. He was beaten up by the lord, who yelled:" You have to pay back the dead pigs, or I, 11 cut back your grain ration." Danzhen was consequently deprived of one month's grain ration, and he had to eat his father's ration. His father was also a slave of the lord's. When Danzhen turned 15, the lord said to him: "Danzhen, you are about to convert to a chaba, or serviceprovider. A chaba has land to till and is after all better than a slave. I'll let you rent 30 ke of my land. The harvest from 25 ke belongs to me; and that from 5 ke belongs to you." Why was the lord so magnanimous? It turned out that most members of a chaba household who used to till the 30 ke of land had died at the hands of the lord. The one surviving member was too old and fragile to till the land, and the land was taken away from him and the man was driven out of the manor village. When he forced Danzhen to sign the contract, the lord said: "You are my slave and I am your master. You are like my hand. Whatever I tell you to do, you must do it." Thus, Danzhen converted from a slave to a chaba. When spring sowing came and Danzhen had no seeds, he borrowed 30 ke of seeds from his feudal lord after giving the latter a harda (a piece of silk presented to a person as a show of respect) and 30 eggs and imploring him repeatedly. But the seeds were adulterated with 5-6 ke of sand and tiny stones. He borrowed an ox from his lord. The ox would not pull the plough and he gave the beast several lashes. The lord found this and beat Danzhen unconscious. As a chaba, Danzhen had to provide more than 20 varieties of internal labor services for the lord. He decided to escape. But before he cleared the village, he was seized and beaten up by the lord. He was then sent to the prison, where he was further beaten up. Afraid that he might die in the prison, the local government drove him out of the prison. Finding him useless, the lord took back the 30 ke of land and announced that Danzhen continued to be his slave. By then, Danzhen was paralyzed.

In Tibet 50 years ago, the situation in pastoral areas was no better than in agricultural areas. Wula labor was extremely heavy there and serfs tending livestock were even worse off' than farming serfs. This is because feudal exploitation in pastoral areas killed any labor enthusiasm on the part of serfs, resulting in even lower productivity there than in farming areas. In pastoral areas in Tibet as a whole, the survival rate of cattle and sheep was low. According to statistics from most areas, cattle had a 40% pregnancy rate and their young had a 50% survival rate; and sheep had a 70% pregnancy rate and their young had only a 30% survival rate. Serf owners iin pastoral areas collected a "pastoral rent." Serfs paid such rent with butter and wool (or hair), their amount being determined by the size of the herd. All young animals bom of rented livestock belonged to serf owners. Under this system called xie in Tibetan, the rate of exploitation stood at about 50%. There was another system called jie mei ql mei in Tibetan. Compared with "pastoral rent," or the xie system, this was more like blackmail. It ran like this: when a contract was signed, a pastoral landlord would force serfs to accept old and weak animals as rented livestock and calculate the amount of rent according to the original size of the rented herd. Such animals had a high death rate and gave birth to few young. Exploitation rate was even higher than the xie system. A tribe in Qinglong Township in Xigaze's Saga County had 44 herdsman households. In the early 1950s, the families had only five cattle and two sheep left but had to continue paying rent according to what they rented 100 years previously: 78 head of cattle and 196 sheep.

Herdsman Baiqia, a serf, lives in Riqing Township in Nagqu's Amdo County. At ten, he began working for a pastoral lord as a servant. Aside from tending cattle and sheep, he had to do household chores for the lord. He had neither enough to eat nor enough to wear. Sometimes he ate innards of dead cattle and sheep and was beaten up for this. He also had to do labor service for the local government. An official said to him: "Since you have feet, you must provide foot service." At 16, he began providing a postal corvee in the northern Tibetan plateau, between Amdo and Heihe.
　　　　　　http://www.humanrights.cn/zt/magazine/pic/030707.jpg
Dui qiong's coarse food in old Tibet.

Zhaba is another former herdsman serf, who lives in Baihui Township in Qamdo County. When he was 14, his family had 20 head of cattle and other small pieces of property. For the 20 head of cattle, the family every year had to turn over to their pastoral lord the following: a big packet of butter, four whole slaughtered sheep, 16 bales of grass, two ke of ginseng fruit, an ox hide, two sheepskins and 100 taels of Tibetan silver. The lord ordered: "You must report yourself for service whenever you are called." The family needed to provide (pay) a so-called "ear service" for all human beings, dogs and other animals on the farm. For every ear of the objects of his service, the family must pay one tael of Tibetan silver. The burden was too heavy for the family, which later sold or slaughtered most of the livestock. By the time Zhaba was 30, all the livestock had gone. But this was no escape from misery for the family. They had to provide corvee labor for lamaseries and the local government. As providers of "foot services," they delivered letters, carried officials on back and built houses for them; and they provided officials with firewood as "kitchen men." They became slaves of the local government.

[Lerclair]

My vibes? Please. Chinese people were the only one to tell me SE Asians are not smart compared to Chinese and how culturally superior they are towards SE Asians. I have a Chinese/Viet friend and his dad is one of the worst when it comes down to how superior the Chinese are. I'm probably one of the easiest guy to get along with.Maybe it's the topic, you are engaging in. Anyway, just by looking at your post history.. I felt that vibe.

BTW, you formed your opinions because of a Chinese family, who is Vietnamese? I have more Chinese expat friends, workers and business associates than you can imagine. Generally, I would say that they all looked forward for China to reach the same development status, as my country. As China is fast developing, it's just possible and they felt proud about it. A better life.

It takes all kinds to make a country. I can make any documentary that fits my agenda, by simply incorporating who fits in. With a country of 1.3 Billion, it wouldn't be a problem.

[Shadowstorm]

One of these days, China is going explode in a major civil war with all the problems in that country.

[FIA_cn]

This topic has come up before...

Ive had over 10 years experience working with Chinese, and I can vouch for the fact they look down on "brown" skin Asians.

working with chinese in China?

[Lerclair]

This topic has come up before...

Ive had over 10 years experience working with Chinese, and I can vouch for the fact they look down on "brown" skin Asians.I have twenty over years.

I think you are talking about Indians and Bangladesh, and around that region. For the Indians they have a history. About the Bangladesh, Sri Lanka... the whole South East Asia have the same opnion. Sad... but the Chinese are not alone here. Of course, I'm generalising.

[Kilgor]

I have twenty over years.

I think you are talking about Indians and Bangladesh, and around that region. For the Indians they have a history. About the Bangladesh, Sri Lanka... the whole South East Asia have the same opnion. Sad... but the Chinese are not alone here. Of course, I'm generalising.

No, Cambodians, Filipino's Thai's.

[LaoSexMachine]

Maybe it's the topic, you are engaging in. Anyway, just by looking at your post history.. I felt that vibe.

BTW, you formed your opinions because of a Chinese family, who is Vietnamese? I have more Chinese expat friends, workers and business associates than you can imagine. Generally, I would say that they all looked forward for China to reach the same development status, as my country. As China is fast developing, it's just possible and they felt proud about it. A better life.

It takes all kinds to make a country. I can make any documentary that fits my agenda, by simply incorporating who fits in. With a country of 1.3 Billion, it wouldn't be a problem.

I have many Asian friends. Korean, Chinese, Thai, Khmer.

There is pride in ones culture and there is straight racism. I can distinguished the two.

My friend who is Chinese/Viet owns a metal fab company and tells me how when he does work for Chinese they always say how they like working with other Chinese since they think Viets aren't as capable doing what my friend does. I live in Houston and you don't I can take you to gated neighborhoods where Chinese people are prefered.

[hydropod]

Fia_cn, good post. Lets see how long it takes someone to jump out and say all this is commie propaganda.

Have you also seen how smart the government is dealing with this? All apcs and tanks had their army signs and tactical numbers covered, while all troop carries a big stick instead of a gun. I bet the news outlets are dying for a photo of a Chinese PAP officer with a gun to put under the title "brutal crackdowns", but are not getting one LOL.

Reading through the news from the various news organazations on the riot, all you see it condemnation of the crackdown, all of which quotes a speculative figure pulled out of thin air of 100 killed. All mention sounds of gun-fire, yet non points out what the various blogs have pointed out: the troops are using tear gas. The killing, pillaging and looting of non-tibetans are of course, whitewashed under "peaceful protest". So westerner probably just gets a mental picture of peaceful marchers shot at by troops, perfect for what they thought of the Chinese would do. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[hydropod]

One of these days, China is going explode in a major civil war with all the problems in that country.
Sorry mate, we had two in the last century, one gave us the Japanese invasion, the other brought us isolation. We are smart enough to see how sucky civil wars are now.

[LaoSexMachine]

Fia_cn, good post. Lets see how long it takes someone to jump out and say all this is commie propaganda.

Have you also seen how smart the government is dealing with this? All apcs and tanks had their army signs and tactical numbers covered, while all troop carries a big stick instead of a gun. I bet the news outlets are dying for a photo of a Chinese PAP officer with a gun to put under the title "brutal crackdowns", but are not getting one LOL.

Reading through the news from the various news organazations on the riot, all you see it condemnation of the crackdown, all of which quotes a speculative figure pulled out of thin air of 100 killed. All mention sounds of gun-fire, yet non points out what the various blogs have pointed out: the troops are using tear gas. The killing, pillaging and looting of non-tibetans are of course, whitewashed under "peaceful protest". So westerner probably just gets a mental picture of peaceful marchers shot at by troops, perfect for what they thought of the Chinese would do. Hypocrisy at its finest.

And what does the Chinese media say?

[Shadowstorm]

Sorry mate, we had two in the last century, one gave us the Japanese invasion, the other brought us isolation. We are smart enough to see how sucky civil wars are now.
Will you can thank Mao for putting your country in isolation.

[FIA_cn]

No, Cambodians, Filipino's Thai's.

I've never meet any Combodian and Thai's yet, but I have a Filipino close friend.

How many chinese people do you ever worked with, sir?
there are 1.3 billion Chinese in east asia, some of them maybe acting as stupid racist azzhole but I'm quite sure that most of Chinese people are ok.

[Lerclair]

No, Cambodians, Filipino's Thai's.Not so sure about Cambodians and Filipinos, but They are ok with Thais.

[FIA_cn]

Will you can thank Mao for putting your country in isolation.

actually we should thank the US and the Soviet did that.

[Ought Six]

So Tibet had feudalism, but they were 'rescued' by Maosim. Lucky, lucky Tibetans. :|

How about China ends its brutal occupation, and sees how they do with democracy?

[plato]

China freed Tibetan slaves, how nice! I am just wondering how can China free Tibetan slaves when there are still so many Chinese slaves today?
Before anyone start to blame for Western propaganda, let me post some news reporting from NON-Western medias: from the mideast and russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/HdxDGwkuCZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/95eitLGI1V8

[FIA_cn]

100 dead??
where are the photos can proof that??

what I found is a group of gangs kicking a fireman lying on the groud.

[Kilgor]

actually we should thank the US and the Soviet did that.

Correct me If i am wrong, But I thought the GLF contained the usual highly xenophobic and paranoid communist party scapegoating.

[Shadowstorm]

actually we should thank the US and the Soviet did that.
Will the U.S supported Taiwan back than and Soviet Union broke relations with China in 1960, because China was spreading Maoism version of communism all over world which the Soviets didn't like and the border skirmishes between the Soviet Union and China.

[Hellfish]

Will the U.S supported Taiwan back than and Soviet Union broke relations with China in 1960, because China was spreading Maoism version of communism all over world and border skirmishes between the Soviet Union and China.


You need to shut the **** up

[Shadowstorm]

You need to shut the **** up
You need **** off. That's what f**king happen.

[FIA_cn]

So Tibet had feudalism, but they were 'rescued' by Maosim. Lucky, lucky Tibetans. :|

How about China ends its brutal occupation, and sees how they do with democracy?

at least you can get a picture of what the "peaceful" Lamas did, and why they want their power back.

[IraGlacialis]

I think you are talking about Indians and Bangladesh, and around that region. For the Indians they have a history. About the Bangladesh, Sri Lanka... the whole South East Asia have the same opnion. Sad... but the Chinese are not alone here. Of course, I'm generalising.
Living in Indonesia, I remember that that the resident Chinese tended to own a lot of business. And the way the operated and acted showed great disdain for the inhabitants. Hence why there is such a great hatred for the Chinese from the Indonesians.

As for Thais, there may be operational alliances with China, but there are still fears in many Thai minds of an invasion occuring. Plus, "brown" Asians can apply to any southern Asian peoples, except for perhaps the Vietnamese.
And yes, many Chinses have had a sense of superiority when comparing themselves to... anybody. The Chinese, as well as many east Asian (Japanese, Korean), culture is, by historical evidence, extremely xenophobic and quite arrogant.

[9mmRifle]

So Tibet had feudalism, but they were 'rescued' by Maosim. Lucky, lucky Tibetans. :|



It was never free, and the Peaceful Loving Tibetans....yes I'm talking about the religious nuts going around attacking other ethnic groups with machetes, used to live of a society of slavery and built their homes using dirt and Yak turds....talk about a great economy. I'm sure a feudal theocracy with be as equally as successful as Mugabe's non-white Africa.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u276/Lore-Data/MugabeonTIMEcover.jpg




How about China ends its brutal occupation, and sees how they do with democracy?

LOL, you think the U.S government is going to end its brutal occupation of Sitting Bull's Lakota-stan


Hence why there is such a great hatred for the Chinese from the Indonesian.


There is great hatred for everyone non-Muslim in Indonesia because sometimes Indonesia can be pretty backward. A poll ran some months ago showed Indonesia had 20% see bin Laden as justified. The Bali bombers plan to create a pan-Islamic state covering Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and the southern Philippines

[Shadowstorm]

No wonder why Taiwan wants to be independent.

[FIA_cn]

China freed Tibetan slaves, how nice! I am just wondering how can China free Tibetan slaves when there are still so many Chinese slaves today?
Before anyone start to blame for Western propaganda, let me post some news reporting from NON-Western medias: from the mideast and russia.


yeah, that was one of the hottest topics few month back, almost all the mideas reported that and the fvcking bastards who did bad has already been punished.

[Lerclair]

I have many Asian friends. Korean, Chinese, Thai, Khmer.

There is pride in ones culture and there is straight racism. I can distinguished the two. I'm sure they would maul other Asian's any chance they get. Name one incident. Saying my country is better than yours..does something better than yours, generally ain't Racism. Nationalistic probably. Americans does it often enough.


My friend who is Chinese/Viet owns a metal fab company and tells me how when he does work for Chinese they always say how they like working with other Chinese since they think Viets aren't as capable doing what my friend does. I live in Houston and you don't I can take you to gated neighborhoods where Chinese people are prefered.I often say the same thing, against the Chinese Workers, it's their industrial practise, or the lack of it. Does that makes me racist ? Certain issues are real. attitudes and level of education plays a part. The language for communication is also a point.

Hey, generally, laos, Vietnamese, Thais, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are collective societies. If enough of them, if possible they tends to stick near by. How many Chinatown, Vietnamese/Laos town is there.

[FIA_cn]

No wonder why Taiwan wants to be independent.

dude this is a thread about tibet riot.

[Hellfish]

You need **** off. That's what f**king happen.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just shut up

[Shadowstorm]

why?...............
Because, they don't want live in the shadows were a lot stuff is restricted and basically no freedom of speech.

[Shadowstorm]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just shut up
What the hell are you talking about, go read a damn history book.

[tecumseh11]

I think this riot will break the Tibetan resistance. Once they see that nobody will do anything for them, even under the spotlight of the Olympics, they will just give up.

[FIA_cn]

Because, they want live in the shadows were a lot stuff is restricted and basically no freedom of speech.

me too. and I am. with some proxy tho.

[plato]

yeah, that was one of the hottest topics few month back, almost all the mideas reported that and the fvcking bastards who did bad has already been punished.
Right, right! Everyone were punished? How about all of those government officals, and polices who protected these "fvcking bastards"?

How about those 6000 dead Chinese coal mine workers?

And China still freed Tibetan slaves? How about free Chinese slaves first?

[IraGlacialis]

There is great hatred for everyone non-Muslim in Indonesia because sometimes Indonesia can be pretty backward.
Dude, we had no problem there at all (three years over there). And we mainly frequented the common areas (in case you might bring that up that we just stayed in a rich area).
Sure my dad sometimes got some glances (he's white), but nothing more than that, and of course if you donate to the neighborhood mosque, they wont care what race you are and will make you a guest of honor (you get a front seat when they sacrifice the goat).
They were completely genial to me and my mom. Oh and Indonesians don't tend to hide their feelings (in case you might bring up that they were hiding their true nature). And yes they can differentiate Thais from themselves and Chinese.

[Lerclair]

Living in Indonesia, I remember that that the resident Chinese tended to own a lot of business. And the way the operated and acted showed great disdain for the inhabitants. Hence why there is such a great hatred for the Chinese from the Indonesians.
There is a difference between nationality and ethnicity. Which means say are economical and wealth issues. The Indonesian Chinese are poor immigrants when they arrived, why do they owns a lot businesses ?

The hatred is mainly due to Envy, and of course, I've heard of wealthy Chinese looking down on the poor Indons, But they are doing what other rich Indons themselves are doing. It's a culture there. Not saying it's right, But one tends behave what is being conceived there.

[LaoSexMachine]

I'm sure they would maul other Asian's any chance they get. Name one incident. Saying my country is better than yours..does something better than yours, generally ain't Racism. Nationalistic probably. Americans does it often enough.

I often say the same thing, against the Chinese Workers, it's their industrial practise, or the lack of it. Does that makes me racist ? Certain issues are real. attitudes and level of education plays a part. The language for communication is also a point.

Hey, generally, laos, Vietnamese, Thais, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are collective societies. If enough of them, if possible they tends to stick near by. How many Chinatown, Vietnamese/Laos town is there.

Lao town? More like Chinatown. You can go to any major city in America and find a Chinatown. Laos? People tend to not know a country by that name exist.

When they rather have other Chinese work with them because they feel the others are not up to task because they are not smart enough ie. looking down. That racism. No matter how you try to side step it.

[tecumseh11]

Lao town? More like Chinatown. You can go to any major city in America and find a Chinatown. Laos? People tend to not know a country by that name exist.

When they rather have other Chinese work with them because they feel the others are not up to task because they are not smart enough ie. looking down. That racism. No matter how you try to side step it.

Aren't the Chinatowns there because you had a lot of Chinese railway workers in the 1870s ( + gold rush)?

[LaoSexMachine]

Aren't the Chinatowns there because you had a lot of Chinese railway workers in the 1870s ( + gold rush)?

Didn't know there were gold rushes in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and many more I can't remember at this time.

[Lerclair]

Lao town? More like Chinatown. You can go to any major city in America and find a Chinatown. Laos? People tend to not know a country by that name exist.

When they rather have other Chinese work with them because they feel the others are not up to task because they are not smart enough ie. looking down. That racism. No matter how you try to side step it.You call it racism ... all you want. I call it a collective culture. They even break themselves up in dialects groups. They must be racist against their own race then.

[Shadowstorm]

Didn't know there were gold rushes in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and many more I can't remember at this time.
And don't forget New York City.

[FIA_cn]

Right, right! Everyone were punished? How about all of those government officals, and polices who protected these "fvcking bastards"?

How about those 6000 dead Chinese coal mine workers?

And China still freed Tibetan slaves? How about free Chinese slaves first?

what's your solution?
which officals haven't been punished yet as they deserved, can you name them here? I want to see their name list.

how do you draw the conclusion that the central goverment haven't take action to crack down the corrupt ShanXi officials? and do you think that everything is easy as toss a coin?

do you think every fcvking stupid thing here can change overnight and everybody happy?

Changing and get better, bit slow but IMO stability is the most important. So I am not pessimistic about China's future.

[LaoSexMachine]

You call it racism ... all you want. I call it a collective culture. They even break themselves up in dialects groups. They must be racist against their own race then.


I call it the way I see it. When one views another race as inferior I see it as racism.

[plato]

what's your solution?
which officals haven't been punished yet as they deserved, can you name them here? I want to see their name list.

how do you draw the conclusion that the central goverment haven't take action to crack down the corrupt ShanXi officials? and do you think that everything is easy as toss a coin?

do you think every fcvking stupid thing here can change overnight and everybody happy? things are changing and get better, bit slow but IMO stability is the most important. So I am not pessimistic about China's future.

How about "get the fvck out of Tibet"? and leave the people of Taiwan alone. Finally, free your own Chinese slaves first before claiming you have freed the Tibetan slaves!

[9mmRifle]

I can't believe the pussies running the Indian government are bending over backwards to China. Hasn't India already ****ed over the Tibetans enough with its apathy. Seeing pictures of peaceful protests broken up pisses me off to no end!


The Indian gov is sending a message to its own people and its own ethnic groups who want to break-away all of a sudden. The last thing India wants to see is a return to the 80s with the extremist Sikh freaks kidnapping people and attempts at hijacking aircraft


and of course if you donate to the neighborhood mosque, they wont care what race you are and will make you a guest of honor (you get a front seat when they sacrifice the goat).


Why would I want to ever donate to a Mosque ? when I know most of religion is a waste of time, I certainly wouldn't ever want to support a religion as oppressive as Islam.

[Shadowstorm]

How about "get the fvck out of Tibet"? and leave the people of Taiwan alone. Finally, free your own Chinese slaves first before claiming you have freed the Tibetan slaves!
X2. I agree with you Plato.

[FIA_cn]

How about "get the fvck out of Tibet"? and leave the people of Taiwan alone. Finally, free your own Chinese slaves first before claiming you have freed the Tibetan slaves!

Shan Xi case is settled.

btw can you show me the corrpt officials name list of the Chinese slaves incident?

[Lerclair]

I call it the way I see it. When one views another race as inferior I see it as racism.Prefered does not mean inferior.

[LaoSexMachine]

Prefered does not mean inferior.

Thinking another race is not capable ie. smart enough is. Like I said you can side step it all you want.

[SBL]

Prefered does not mean inferior.

I prefer not to associate with Frenchmen, as they usually smell.

[tecumseh11]

If the Chinese are racist, what pogroms have they launched?

If the Tibetans aren't racist in comparison, then what is this?

[Tibet also attacked a Hui (sp?) mosque]


Pogrom (from Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): погром; from громить, Russian ****unciation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_chart_for_Russian): [grɐˈmʲitʲ] "to wreak havoc, to demolish violently") is a form of riot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot) directed against a particular group, whether ethnic, religious or other, and characterized by destruction of their homes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home), businesses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business) and religious centres. Historically, the term as used in English has very often been used to denote extensive violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence) against Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) — either spontaneous or premeditated — but it has also been applied to similar incidents against other, mostly minority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority), groups. Pogroms are usually accompanied by physical violence against the targeted people and even murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder) or massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre).

[LaoSexMachine]

If the Chinese are racist, what pogroms have they launched?

If the Tibetans aren't racist in comparison, then what is this?

[Tibet also attacked a Hui (sp?) mosque]

So China is the victim here? China invaded Tibet and Tibet want them out? What about China's suppression of religion? How about setting up their own puppet Dali Lama? destruction of temples in Tibet?

[msnger]

I'm ashame to say this but I agree with Ezk, however I wouldn't say all Chinese but a lot of them are very racist including my father. Chinese have this mentality that " we are decedents of dragon" supposedly being royal and better than others.

On Tibet I am indifferent, China conquered Tibet, Tibetan to need fight for independent, hopefully is peaceful but progress is cruel.

[LaoSexMachine]

msng, I'm not accusing ALL Chinese of it but it's just my experience. I have Chinese friends and if I thought that way then I would be friends with them.

[Lerclair]

Snake your are off the point of discussion. The point is the natural of circumstances.

I prefer to work with Chinese than say Taiwanese. I'm racist ? There are many under lining reasons to this. Communications, skills, attitude and teamwork. Or simply lack of skill to compliment the job.

I prefer to work for the German company than Chinese one ... I'm Racist ? Apart that the company pays better, have better environment, better equipment and benefits, and have the skill I can learn from. But I don't speak German. Will they hire me ? So do I think Germans are superior to me ?

[Shadowstorm]

I'm not against Chinese people ether, I just don't like how their government is treating their people.

[Lerclair]

So China is the victim here? China invaded Tibet and Tibet want them out? What about China's suppression of religion? How about setting up their own puppet Dali Lama? destruction of temples in Tibet?Should I point to the Iraq war ? Are the US soldiers victim of terrorism there ?

Again whether China invaded an independent Tibet in 1949 is in question.

[LaoSexMachine]

Snake your are off the point of discussion. The point is the natural of circumstances.

I prefer to work with Chinese than say Taiwanese. I'm racist ? There are many under lining reasons to this. Communications, skills, attitude and teamwork. Or simply lack of skill to compliment the job.

I prefer to work for the German company than Chinese one ... I'm Racist ? Apart that the company pays better, have better environment, better equipment and benefits, and have the skill I can learn from. But I don't speak German. Will they hire me ? So do I think Germans are superior to me ?

Not about preference. You seem not to get it but to view that a certain race is not smart enough or capable because you view them as incapable of doing the task.

[9mmRifle]

did this industry, security, infrastructure and the new Qinghai-Railway come to Tibet for the Tibetans or for the Chinese moving to Tibet?


Would you want the region return to religious feudalism and a backward theocracy ? Yeah great economy those guys had building their homes from dirt and Yak turds and building on slavery. Unfortunately for the Lama his Peaceful Loving ™ image got tarnished when his brother started carrying out terrorist attacks and he started hanging about with a doomsday terrorist who had plans to start a third world war. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6505/5s1cvv2.jpg



Thinking another race is not capable ie. smart enough is. Like I said you can side step it all you want.

Which is exactly what the Tibetan extremists want, running around with machetes to ethnically cleanse the region and create their own little Kingdom of Heaven for the religiosity freaks. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere. The Lama has about as much chance for kicking out the Chinese as the Australian Aboriginals have for sending the master whiteman packing back home to wherever place they came from.


X2. I agree with you Plato.

If Tibet has always been so free then why did his-worship, your guys Dalai Lama, admit it's a part of China. There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the sh.t end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. I think they should make Xenu the next Dalai Lama,
http://www.absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar70003_5.gif
his chances of creating a little Kingdom of Heaven in the Himalayas would probably be even better.

[LaoSexMachine]

Should I point to the Iraq war ? Are the US soldiers victim of terrorism there ?

During our whole time of Occupation we are relocating so many Americans to Iraq that we actually out number them. We destroy there mosques and we have to approve of them first and ALL of the Clerics are approved by America:roll:

[Lerclair]

Not about preference. You seem not to get it but to view that a certain race is not smart enough or capable because you view them as incapable of doing the task.Well, then I'm Racist. I constantly, feels that a skilled Bangladesh with the same local industrial certification as with a chinese of the same level, are not up to a certain task. I'm been proven right quite afew times. Inversely, I'm also certain the Chinese (the ones in our employment) are not up to the task as the French.

[9mmRifle]

Ezekiel25:17 the Iraq job ain't finished yet, they country could easily split. Maybe someone other freaks want to split China to several parts, just like the Iranians plan to do in Iraq. If things are not done right we will have indirectly helped Iran created a Shi'ite state within a state in Iraq

[Lerclair]

During our whole time of Occupation we are relocating so many Americans to Iraq that we actually out number them. We destroy there mosques and we have to approve of them first and ALL of the Clerics are approved by America:roll:I believe if they could they would.

[LaoSexMachine]

Would you want the region return to religious feudalism and a backward theocracy ? Yeah great economy those guys had building their homes from dirt and Yak turds and building on slavery. Unfortunately for the Lama his Peaceful Loving ™ image got tarnished when he brother started carrying out terrorist attacks and he started hanging about with a doomsday terrorist who had plans to start a third world war. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6505/5s1cvv2.jpg




Which is exactly what the Tibetan extremists want, running around with machetes to ethnically cleanse the region and create their own little Kingdom of Heaven for the religiosity freaks. Tibet or Xizang has been owned by the Chinese for centuries, we wouldn't give a damn about these religiosity freaks if weren't for people like Richard Gere. The Lama has about as much chance for kicking out the Chinese as the Australian Aboriginals have for sending the master whiteman packing back home to wherever place they came from.



If Tibet has always been so free then why did his-worship, your guys Dalai Lama, admit it's a part of China. There are dozens of minority ethnic groups get the sh.t end of the human rights stick in China but nobody gives a damn about them because they ain't buddies with Hollyweird Celebrities. I think they should make Xenu the next Dalai Lama,
http://www.absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar70003_5.gif
his chances of creating a little Kingdom of Heaven in the Himalayas would probably be even better.

And China gave a damn about "these religious freaks"? So you see some Tibetan with a machete and you automatically assume it's always been that way? Where were these machete weilding Tibetans before these protest?

[LaoSexMachine]

I believe if they could they would.

Could of, would of, should of, but not. Please.

[Switek]

Would you want the region return to religious feudalism and a backward theocracy ? Yeah great economy those guys had building their homes from dirt and Yak turds and building on slavery. Unfortunately for the Lama his Peaceful Loving ™ image got tarnished when he brother started carrying out terrorist attacks and he started hanging about with a doomsday terrorist who had plans to start a third world war.

You're not funny nor sarcastic. You're simply losing your temper. I'm not surprised. Writing such stupid propagana BS that may be workable in China but not here.

The sad thing is that Chinese government uses the same methods in Tibet which were used by Japanese invanders more than 60 years ago.

Congratulations China! An enermous progress esp. in Olimpic Games year. Shame on you. :-(

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah, I know.

[LaoSexMachine]

Well, then I'm Racist. I constantly, feels that a skilled Bangladesh with the same local industrial certification as with a chinese of the same level, are not up to a certain task. I'm been proven right quite afew times. Inversely, I'm also certain the Chinese (the ones in our employment) are not up to the task as the French.

Like I said do you view a certain race as inferior? I'm not talking about skill level.

My friend's experience is that the Chinese he works for assume that A Viet is not up to task as a Chinese and this is before they even see the work.

[9mmRifle]

J-A jestem nie Chińczyk Padaletz

As a matter of fact I really don't like the Chicoms at all

but I think your hatred of the Ruskies and hatred of Communism has prevented you from seeing past your own nose

Switek, I think the Chicoms are bad, real bad
but life under the CCP would be many times better than life ruled by a bunch of extremist religious buffons, his brother used to blow sh.t up, they had plans to ethnically cleanse the region, the guy spent time hanging out with a Doomsday Terrorist !!
Just some of the facts Richard Gere and his Hollyweird buddies don't want you to see

[Lerclair]

Like I said do you view a certain race as inferior? I'm not talking about skill level.

My friend's experience is that the Chinese he works for assume that A Viet is not up to task as a Chinese and this is before they even see the work.I have the same sense.. I'm Racist.

Thru experience, if you ask an Italian (or any European or even an American) whether the Chinese could do a better job. They will likely say no. Same thing if you ask the Japanese.

[Shadowstorm]

All races have good and bad, smart in between and stupid people.

[Switek]

@ 9mmRifle (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=26147)

Let Tibetans decide themselves. Seems that they don't like Chinese way of life and all their stuff.

[Shadowstorm]

@ 9mmRifle (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=26147)

Let Tibetans decide themselves. Seems that they don't like Chinese way of life and all their stuff.
Same here. China should leave Taiwan and Tibet alone and deal with their own problems.

[Lerclair]

@ 9mmRifle (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=26147)

Let Tibetans decide themselves. Seems that they don't like Chinese way of life and all their stuff.But there is only a couple of hundred rioters against a population of about 6 millions.

[FIA_cn]

but I think your hatred of the Ruskies and hatred of Communism has prevented you from seeing past your own nose

Switek, I think the Chicoms are bad, real bad
but life under the CCP would be many times better than life ruled by a bunch of extremist religious buffons, his brother used to blow sh.t up, they had plans to ethnically cleanse the region, the guy spent time hanging out with a Doomsday Terrorist !!


second that, same here.

[Weasel]

But there is only a couple of hundred rioters against a population of about 6 millions.

Being rioters doen´t make them too trustworthy.