Republican Davis: > Bush has killed ‘the Republican brand.’ »

[Freedom-Fries]

"It's no mystery," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.). "You have a very unhappy electorate, which is no surprise, with oil at $108 a barrel, stocks down a few thousand points, a war in Iraq with no end in sight and a president who is still very, very unpopular. He's just killed the Republican brand."

Republicans See Storm Clouds Gathering

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/15/AR2008031502047.html?nav=rss_politics


Week of Bad News Highlights Difficult Challenges for GOP in Fall Elections


By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 16, 2008; Page A05

While all eyes were on the presidential campaign and the demise of New York Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer (D) last week, Republicans on Capitol Hill were suffering a run of bad news that could hold dire implications for the campaign season.

It started with the loss last weekend of the seat held for two decades by former House speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.). It got worse when Republicans lost potentially strong challengers to Democratic senators in South Dakota and New Jersey, and failed to field anyone to oppose the reelection bid of Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.).

The latest blow came with the revelation that the former treasurer of the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) had allegedly diverted hundreds of thousands of dollars -- and possibly as much as $1 million -- from the organization's depleted coffers to his own bank accounts.

If Republicans needed any more evidence of how difficult this fall may be, the past week had it all, analysts said. The Illinois race demonstrated new levels of disaffection, the party's efforts to go on offense elsewhere were thwarted by recruiting failures, and the NRCC scandal will divert campaign resources and could frighten off badly needed contributors, they said.

"It's no mystery," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.). "You have a very unhappy electorate, which is no surprise, with oil at $108 a barrel, stocks down a few thousand points, a war in Iraq with no end in sight and a president who is still very, very unpopular. He's just killed the Republican brand."

Stuart Rothenberg, a nonpartisan analyst of congressional politics, said: "The math is against them. The environment is against them. The money is against them. This is one of those cycles that if you're a Republican strategist, you just want to go into the bomb shelter."

The loss of Hastert's seat in a special election in the far suburbs of Chicago was particularly painful, Republicans conceded. GOP campaign aides contended that the victory of Democratic physicist Bill Foster, a political neophyte, was more a reflection of the unpopularity of his Republican opponent, Jim Oberweis, than a tectonic political shift in a district that once exemplified the GOP's stranglehold on the nation's outer-ring suburbs.

But that's not how Foster sees it. Voters "had a pretty clean choice between a candidate who had aligned himself with George Bush's policies and one who felt we needed a change of course," he said.

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain (Ariz.) helped Oberweis raise money, and the NRCC pumped more than $1.2 million into the district -- using more than 20 percent of its cash on hand -- to no avail.

"Even if it was mostly about Jim Oberweis, it's a terrible sign," Rothenberg said. "It adds to Democratic energy and further depresses the Republicans. And you can't dismiss the idea that there is an atmospheric advantage for the Democrats."

Two days after the Illinois election, South Dakota's former lieutenant governor, Steve Kirby, announced he will not challenge Sen. Tim Johnson, one of the few Democratic senators seeking reelection in a swing state.

On the same day, Arkansas Republican Party Chairman Dennis Milligan said his party has no candidate to challenge Pryor, another swing-state Democrat, and in Minnesota, wealthy trial lawyer Michael Ciresi dropped out of the Democratic primary. That cleared the way for comedian Al Franken, the remaining Democratic candidate, to spend the next eight months focusing on Sen. Norm Coleman (R).

CONTINUED
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/15/AR2008031502047.html?nav=rss_politics

[Invisigoth]

No doubt he will be remembered as one of the worst president's in U.S. history. McCain will have an uphill battle to fight but I think he can pull it off with the Hillerbeast still mauling her Democratic teammate/opponent.

[gaijinsamurai]

It is a shame for McCain, because right now, he looks like he might be the best candidate for the job. In hindsight, he probably should have started distancing himself from the Cheney/Rove Administration a lot earlier.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

In all the areas where I think Bush has failed most, he has governed least like a Republican and most like a Democrat - so for me it doesn't really change my affiliations any.

[zad]

In all the areas where I think Bush has failed most, he has governed least like a Republican and most like a Democrat

Do you mean that Al Gore would invaded Irak too?

[socom6]

The man said
Do you mean that Al Gore would invaded Irak too?

The man said he GOVERNED more like a Democrat than a Republican, meaning how he governed in the US, taxed and spent.

Al Gore would have invaded the Sudan instead numpty.

[SOG]

"It's no mystery," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.). "You have a very unhappy electorate, which is no surprise, with oil at $108 a barrel, stocks down a few thousand points, a war in Iraq with no end in sight and a president who is still very, very unpopular. He's just killed the Republican brand."

Somebodies got their blinders on.

[Createdeemcee]

No doubt he will be remembered as one of the worst president's in U.S. history. McCain will have an uphill battle to fight but I think he can pull it off with the Hillerbeast still mauling her Democratic teammate/opponent.


No matter how much Mauling there is, theres no more room in the white house for anyone remotely near the values that bush has. aka mccain. And bush will def benoted as the worst that ever did it.



Al Gore would have invaded the Sudan instead numpty


Now that would have been worth it x10, Just think we could have still saved lives, because there were still thousands alive in the sudan during the begining of iraq. And it would have been worth it. Iraq was a lost cause and should have been placed on the waiting list, as the attrocities that saddam commited that took lives, it was already to late to save those folks. But atleast in the sudan lives could have actually been sparred. Just Bush's way of thinking with a chemical imbalance.

[Bongopete]

So Obama will be a breath of fresh air?????

[Createdeemcee]

So Obama will be a breath of fresh air?????


Who's to say YES, whos to say NO. But he offers something that we all want.(Or most of us) Change. Wether its for the the best or worse, There is an offer of change from the BS regeme that has brought us nothing but downward as a country. So to me anything thats offering opposite from what these clowns have, Im all in for it.

[Bongopete]

Who's to say YES, whos to say NO. But he offers something that we all want.(Or most of us) Change. Wether its for the the best or worse, There is an offer of change from the BS regeme that has brought us nothing but downward as a country. So to me anything thats offering opposite from what these clowns have, Im all in for it.

I agree with you about wanting some change.....I just dont think that other than rhetoric and a few easy items that we will see any change.
And if there IS...I just dont know that I want Obama's style of change.
But yes...we DO need a change.

[Createdeemcee]

I agree with you about wanting some change.....I just dont think that other than rhetoric and a few easy items that we will see any change.
And if there IS...I just dont know that I want Obama's style of change.
But yes...we DO need a change.

Can be him or her, whos ever the nominee will get my vote.

[Invisigoth]

Who's to say YES, whos to say NO. But he offers something that we all want.(Or most of us) Change. Wether its for the the best or worse, There is an offer of change from the BS regeme that has brought us nothing but downward as a country. So to me anything thats offering opposite from what these clowns have, Im all in for it.

Well even if people discard his motto as cheap talk, the man is intelligent, well educated and can put a sentence together, that's 3 steps up from the current guy.

I think us Euros would **** our pants if you guys would actually have the balls to elect Obama president, it would be so...unexpected? :)

[Createdeemcee]

I think us Euros would **** our pants if you guys would actually have the balls to elect Obama president, it would be so...unexpected? :-)


Its either going to be him or her, for better or for worse, I wish it be her simply because she come from the great clinton era, and could use that same mop to clean some things up for us. However from the looks of things Obama is the man. If they could be as one we would benefit greatly. But as far as Voting. I will select the nominee.

[CMNot]

Having experienced quite a bit of America, I'd hazard a small wager that if Obama ends up representing the Dems they stand a good chance of getting into office; if Hillary is the nominee I can't see any other way than McCain. Seemed to me that Hillary could not gain the sitting-on-the-fence voter in the way either Obama or McCain could. Which is nice and off topic...

Bush has been a serious detriment not just to US soft power, but also general Western democratic soft power. But he's not alone, Blair ****ed it just as bad. Then they made the fool an envoy for the middle East - because starting a war perceived by Muslims to be aimed at them will really get the fanatics onside...:roll:

[TheSteve]

I think the 2006 elections really showed how the American people were feeling, but then again not much has changed in 2 years. McCain is really insistent on staying in Iraq, I guess we'll see how that sits with everyone.

Whatever the outcome of this election, we have good candidates on both sides. Whether its Obama, Hilary, or McCain in office it will be far better than our current president.

[ronnieraygun]

Bush has not really killed the Republican brand when you consider the present viable alternative is a party with two half-assed candidates bickering at each other and state party apparatchiks who break the rules and then demand a whiny do-over (Michigan and Florida). Bush could not have killed the Republican brand any worse than the Democrats are killing theirs with their tomfoolery this year.

[Invisigoth]

Bush has not really killed the Republican brand when you consider the present viable alternative is a party with two half-assed candidates bickering at each other and state party apparatchiks who break the rules and then demand a whiny do-over (Michigan and Florida). Bush could not have killed the Republican brand any worse than the Democrats are killing theirs with their tomfoolery this year.

Disagree. Democratic primaries have had record turnouts; looks more like the party base and even independents have been energized more than ever before.

[Createdeemcee]

Bikering is small compared to 4000 dead during a bs war, the attrocities of Katrina, the fact that a bs war happened, presidentiL PARTY MEMBERS benifiting from hi fuel costs. a BS stimulation package thats gonna dig us deeper, health care, outsourcing, And the list goes on and on. So bickering is mere cupcakes to the giant poo poo pie that bush baked. And Since mccain comes from the same kitchen, he will never be a chef in the oval office. not because I said, but 95% of the rest of the country feels the same way.

[noname]

Disagree. Democratic primaries have had record turnouts; looks more like the party base and even independents have been energized more than ever before.

So you are interpreting Operation Chaos wrong just like barak hussein obama.p-)

[Power_serj]

Ignorance. What has President Bush done badly?

Afghanistan?....No, he finally took action, because Bill Clinton did not. It was to stop terrorist attacks against us and get those responsible.

War in Iraq? ...oh wait, that was supported by Congress, and the population, and was started from bad intel, not lies like propaganda states.

Economy?...That's right, the United States is a free market economy, and supply and demand and the market determines the state of the economy, not the president.

Oil prices?....Oh, I forgot, price of oil is going up because of the lowering price of the dollar. Also, I just remembered that OPEC and the market is more responsible for oil prices and not the president.

Bad speaking skill and the situation that happened when his presidency began....Yep, that's it. President Bush's speaking skills went down the drain and he's an easy targets for Democrats/Left Wingers and jihadis to say he's dumb because his speaking skills went down.

Also, the situation he had to deal with on 9/11 and the government, not just his, decision to go into Iraq meant opposition from the European countries who were exploting the Oil for Food program. The situation in Iraq worsened and allowed European left wingers to influence Americans to hate the war, and our leftwingers to go after the president for political gains.

The only dumb thing President Bush was (that I can think of off the top of my head), was supporting the amnesty bill...but even then, he's the first American president to do anything about the border and is actually responsible for the fence that is being built now.

[Bongopete]

Well even if people discard his motto as cheap talk, the man is intelligent, well educated and can put a sentence together, that's 3 steps up from the current guy.



I know what you mean, but there is also a saying..'talks cheap'.

It could all boil down to him saying the same things as Bush just in a more understandable language.

[Createdeemcee]

Hey, If the pope was a us pres he would have went to war with osama. Anyone would have went there after 9/11 happened. Iraq was total bs in everyway though.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Do you mean that Al Gore would invaded Irak too?

Maybe not, but invading Iraq isn't one of the things that I criticize Bush for. Surely it could have been done better, but the fact that it was done at all is a plus in my book. The one and only thing I can see in the Dems favor (as far as I'm concerned anyway) is that they are in the pocket of the big unions - and right now I think that could be useful as we attempt to stem the tide of manufacturing leaving the country. But that's still not enough to get me to switch brands.

[JKD]

I used to be a registered Republican. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other fiscally irresponsible, search warrant hating, fear mongering, blind ideologue interventionist uber-hawks killed the Republican brand for me years ago.

[Bongopete]

I used to be a registered Republican. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other fiscally irresponsible, search warrant hating, fear mongering, blind ideologue interventionist uber-hawks killed the Republican brand for me years ago.


Truth there.

[Gat0r]

Unfortunatly I used to call myself a Bush supporter like you guys until late 04, finally realized how much bs this administration was, the only reason why i'm still a republican and not an independent is Ron Paul.

[CMNot]

'talks cheap'

...but lies are expensive p-)

[deagle]

well, last i heard, it was "republican PARTY", made up of many individuals that couldve had a say. Not saying ALL repub's were responsible for mess, but still.

[Firetxmi]

I used to be a registered Republican. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other fiscally irresponsible, search warrant hating, fear mongering, blind ideologue interventionist uber-hawks killed the Republican brand for me years ago.

I was going to type something to the same affect, but I guess I will just quote you and say it is about where I stand too.

[Bongopete]

Seemed to me that Hillary could not gain the sitting-on-the-fence voter in the way either Obama or McCain could. Which is nice and off topic...


Well, right now she can sit on my face.... and squirm a bit.

[9mmRifle]

Unfortunatly I used to call myself a Bush supporter like you guys until late 04, finally realized how much bs this administration was, the only reason why i'm still a republican and not an independent is Ron Paul.


Ron Paul is never going to win

[mas-36]

I used to be a registered Republican. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other fiscally irresponsible, search warrant hating, fear mongering, blind ideologue interventionist uber-hawks killed the Republican brand for me years ago.

You hit the nail on the head. Pat Buchanan said something to that effect last year, saying that the Neo-Cons were destroying the Republican party for precisely the reasons you mention. There are more than a few of us who can see the core Republicans and the NeoCon "republicans" as two different entities. The Republican party has been hijacked, for lack of a better word.

[ronnieraygun]

-But for the voter, the brand still is intact, versus the Democrats. The same Democrats who appear to have a deadlock fight of attrition right up to the convention, who break their own rules in conventions and seek do-overs and who can't maintain party discipline enough so that the likes of Geraldine Ferraro go squawking off about how a "black" guy is magically catching a break because he is "black." :roll:

I don't think this is a sign of a healthy vigorous Democratic party but one that is headed toward self-destruction in the face of a golden opportunity.

[El Nino]

-But for the voter, the brand still is intact, versus the Democrats. The same Democrats who appear to have a deadlock fight of attrition right up to the convention, who break their own rules in conventions and seek do-overs and who can't maintain party discipline enough so that the likes of Geraldine Ferraro go squawking off about how a "black" guy is magically catching a break because he is "black." :roll:

I don't think this is a sign of a healthy vigorous Democratic party but one that is headed toward self-destruction in the face of a golden opportunity.

How true, it is hard to believe that after all this administrastration has misrepresented, raped and f**cked the people there are still believers,:slap: and the Democracts are just muddling around shafting each other, what a sorry state of affairs.:backhand:

[Gat0r]

Ron Paul is never going to win

Yes I realize he wont win this election but will continue to support him until the republican nomination, then i'll switch to Independent.

[duhblow7]

Well, right now she can sit on my face.... and squirm a bit.

Watch out for the snuke.

[Wolfmanjack]

Its either going to be him or her, for better or for worse, I wish it be her simply because she come from the great clinton era, and could use that same mop to clean some things up for us. However from the looks of things Obama is the man. If they could be as one we would benefit greatly. But as far as Voting. I will select the nominee.

:bash:

Great Clinton Era ? You mean the same Era that has put us where we are today? You can't blame everything on bush alone you know. The Clinton's were useless He was IMPEACHED .. Then acquitted but he was still IMPEACHED ..(one of only 2 presidents that ever was impeached). And you think The Clintons were a good thing for our country?

Wake up, Sure Bush sucks but you can not put all the blame on him. He inherited quite a few problems from the Clinton administration. Just like Whoever becomes president next will, I do not doubt for one second that no matter who becomes president they will be hated for what this country is going to go through the next few years.

Both Clinton's are criminal and should be locked up. Mehh i am sure i am wasting my breath here. If not do some homework do some research on your 'Great leaders' the Clinton's.

In my opinion the both of them are traitors worse then Jane Fonda

[Ought Six]

"It's no mystery," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.). "You have a very unhappy electorate, which is no surprise, with oil at $108 a barrel, stocks down a few thousand points, a war in Iraq with no end in sight and a president who is still very, very unpopular. He's just killed the Republican brand.""Anyone who thinks the way the stock market goes and the price of oil is entirely or even mostly the fault of the President is a complete idiot.


====================================================================

Ig:
"No doubt he will be remembered as one of the worst president's in U.S. history."I always have to laugh when I hear this sort of silliness. I heard precisely the same things said about Ronald Reagan. "Warmonger", "stupid", "clueless", "completely out of touch", "worst President ever". That exact sort of thing was also said about Harry Truman, who left office with the lowest ratings since the science of polling was created.

As far as getting Bush's agenda through Congress, he has been quite successful. As far as his legacy, there are two things that will be remembered in the long term; his leadership after the 9/11 attacks, and how the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns turn out in the end. If Iraq and Afghanistan end up as reasonably stable democracies, and are the beginning of a trend towards real democracy in the Muslim world, I think that history will be as kind to Bush as it was to Reagan and Truman. He may well get credit for winning the war against Jihadism, as Reagan got credit for winning the Cold War. And even if the situation in both Iraq and Afghanistan deteriorates, with the naked corruption and screaming incompetence of Grover Cleavland, Bush would not even be in the running for 'worst President ever'.


====================================================================

Cdc:
"Its either going to be him or her, for better or for worse, I wish it be her simply because she come from the great clinton era, and could use that same mop to clean some things up for us"It scares me that some people actually believe this sort of thing.

[Albatross]

Bush will go down as the worst president in history. "." He will leave office with 2 wars, both unfinished. The worst economy since 1945. Unemployment going thru the roof, and the dollar worth a dead ant. He has done severe damage to our right to privacy, not all of which I disagree with, but he crossed lines. The American public feel lied to and unstable. Now we have McCain, whom is a middle of the road guy who can get things done, or we have Obama, the person with the most liberal voting record in the senate in the last 30 years. McCain can do the job and Obama is a rookie. We are screwed. Buy guns and water. Good luck guys. Go Wolverines.

[ronnieraygun]

Bush will go down as the worst president in history. "." He will leave office with 2 wars, both unfinished. The worst economy since 1945. Unemployment going thru the roof, and the dollar worth a dead ant. He has done severe damage to our right to privacy, not all of which I disagree with, but he crossed lines. The American public feel lied to and unstable. Now we have McCain, whom is a middle of the road guy who can get things done, or we have Obama, the person with the most liberal voting record in the senate in the last 30 years. McCain can do the job and Obama is a rookie. We are screwed. Buy guns and water. Good luck guys. Go Wolverines.

LOL - Dig a ditch so you don't drink from where you poo. Dysentery spreads among the homeless. Be sure to wish for the king:

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x169/Kafkateer/burgerking.jpg

[budgie]

No doubt he will be remembered as one of the worst president's in U.S. history. McCain will have an uphill battle to fight but I think he can pull it off with the Hillerbeast still mauling her Democratic teammate/opponent.

Oh no, you've got it all wrong. It will take years, generations perhaps, before the full genius of the Bush legacy is realised. We don't see it now but the Bush Presidency will reveal its true greatness in the long run. Or so the legend goes...

[Ought Six]

10thA:
"Bush will go down as the worst president in history." rofl
----------
"He will leave office with 2 wars, both unfinished.".... being the first American President with the foresight and balls to commit our nation to win the war the Jihadis declared upon us decades ago.
----------
"The worst economy since 1945."Another person who believes that the Prez controls the economy. This sort of stubborn ignorance is saddening.
----------
"Unemployment going thru the roof...."LOL! 4.8% to 5% is "through the roof" ?!? I would hate to see how you characterize the increase in the late '70s and early '80s from 7% to 11% unemployment. When it came back down to 5%, they were practically dancing in the streets in joy.
----------
"and the dollar worth a dead ant."In other words, devalued 16% in two years. Please send your worthless dollars to me.
----------
"He has done severe damage to our right to privacy, not all of which I disagree with, but he crossed lines."Here, I am with you.
----------
"The American public feel lied to and unstable."I think the media is more than a little to blame for that.
----------
"Now we have McCain, whom is a middle of the road guy who can get things done...."That remains to be seen.
----------
".... or we have Obama, the person with the most liberal voting record in the senate in the last 30 years. McCain can do the job and Obama is a rookie."News flash: there are more than two political parties in America. Who knew ???
----------
"We are screwed. Buy guns and water. Good luck guys. Go Wolverines."Predictions of imminent doom are one of the few constants in American society.

[Will938]

Oh no, you've got it all wrong. It will take years, generations perhaps, before the full genius of the Bush legacy is realised. We don't see it now but the Bush Presidency will reveal its true greatness in the long run. Or so the legend goes...

No, you're right. With all that political experience you've learned from the only two presidents since you've been able to vote, you're well qualified to forget about the other 41 and label bush the worst president ever.

He gets a much worse wrap than he deserves. People piss and moan about things he has no control over, and like to recreate history when they think of his blunders. He's done **** I don't like, he's done stuff wrong. Guess what, all presidents do; and you guys like to forget about anything he gets right. When the non-biased political scientists actually try to answer this question, he places right next to clinton in the middle of all the presidents.

[CMNot]

When you say 'unbiased' do you mean 'right leaning'?

[SOG]

Who's to say YES, whos to say NO. But he offers something that we all want.(Or most of us) Change.

Politics NEVER change. Same dress, different bitch.

[Createdeemcee]

Politics NEVER change. Same dress, different bitch.


Understand, But I want to hear a new angle. Its better than takeing whats not working, and replacing it with itself again. If 8 years didnt work and has gotten worse every year. Its time to take a new road. Cant get any worse than what it is already.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

He will leave office with 2 wars, both unfinished.

Nothing is ever finished. IMO, our world is analog, not digital, and events don't come to a discrete and verifiable end. Today's middle east turmoil is a direct result of unfinished business from WWI & WWII - you'd' think we'd have had a proper exit strategy, right? The Korean war was a direct result of the outcome of WWII as well, and North Korea is still in a state of war with the US. We still have troops and bases all over Europe as part of our 60+ year "exit strategy" from WWII. So if "unfinished wars" qualifies one as the worst president ever....we must give both Truman and Ike that title as well.



The worst economy since 1945.
Based on what criteria? Hell, I lived through the 70's and early 80's, and they were both far worse than we have today.



Unemployment going thru the roof
Can you explain how statistically full employment somehow = unemployment going through the roof?



He has done severe damage to our right to privacy, not all of which I disagree with, but he crossed lines.
Well if by "he" you mean "he and the democrat controlled congress" then we can agree on that part. "They" have also crossed no lines that were not crossed before. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. FDR not only used warrant-less wiretaps, but continued to use them even after the Supreme Court told him to stop. Of course that was after he put American citizens into internment camps during his war.



The American public feel lied to and unstable.
I don't feel lied to - and I don't see how anybody who takes their civic duties seriously could possibly feel that way. Only somebody willing to drink the left-leaning media's kool-aid should be able to make such a claim.

From where I sit, the much of the American public is unstable. They, and apparently lots of folks on this board, appear to suffer from a rather alarming lack of historical perspective, a tenuous grip on reality, and are easily distracted by flashing lights.

Anybody who bases their expectations on the "good old days" living atop two or three unsustainable economic bubbles, while ignoring trouble brewing outside our borders, is in for a life of sustained disappointments. Similarly, I think anybody who has personally invested so much blame in Bush, and who harbors so much personal animosity towards the man is going to be in for a massive disappointment no matter who is elected next. The economy, the dollar, the war, world events - are all far larger than Bush or any American president. Anointing a man as a God among us is a very comforting thing to do, as it makes the answer to all our problems as easy as replacing the man. Unfortunately it's just not that easy.

[SOG]

Cant get any worse than what it is already.

Judging from the past wars we have waged and economic conditions we have weathered I would say it could have been way worse than it is now. I understand what you are saying though, a change of pace per say. That would happen either way now that the majority of the actions are over. No matter who we elect it will be a much quieter time.


and are easily distracted by flashing lights.

I like pretty lights.

[Albatross]

Regarding economy:

Greenspan warns of worst crisis since 1945
Money (http://money.propeller.com/) – The former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan ominously suggested the current financial crisis might turn out to be the worst since World War II, in remarks due to be published on Monday.

Regarding the wars :
Afghanistan needed to happen, and I am completely ok with the way it is still going on. Do I want everyone home, hell yes. Is that in the near future? Probably not.

Iraq, wtf were we ever doing over there? We didn't ever need to do something that could have been taken care of by a cruise missile. The fact of the matter is that we are there, and we can not just abandon the people and the country, but we should have had more troops on the ground to begin with and that moron, Bush, wouldn't listen to the commanders on the ground. Instead he listened to Rumsfeld, who is a complete and udder failure. Bush leads by committee, and his committee is full of cheerleaders and idiots. Cheney just came out yesterday and said that Iraq still had something to do with 9/11 after the pentagon came out with a study that said it didn't. The man is completely off his rocker.

Regarding Unemployment:
Job losses: Worst in 5 years
Payrolls sink in February, fueling recession anxiety. Unemployment rate declines, but that's because there are fewer people in the workforce. (sorry about the bold print)
A strong fierce upward trend may have been better wording
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/07/news/economy/jobs_february/index.htm

Privacy:
Domestic Spying is still illegal. Should we do it, i don't break the law so I don't give a damn. Is it illegal and do we need warrants, ABSO-F'N-LUTLY.

Regarding feeling lied to:
He lied about WMD, and if he didn't he is an asshat. We have never found evidence that they were there.

FYI: I am a republican, and I believe in my country and the people in it. The bottom line is that the American Public needs to remind the government that they work for us, not the other way around. The government is supposed to be scared of us, not the other way around. I am sad that the POTUS is that asshat George Bush, he is an embarrassment to our country.


We may just have to agree to disagree on this.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Regarding economy:
Greenspan warns of worst crisis since 1945


Money (http://money.propeller.com/) – The former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan ominously suggested the current financial crisis might turn out to be the worst since World War II, in remarks due to be published on Monday.
...and Greenspan may turn out to be wrong, and it may not turn out to be the worst anything. He's not exactly an uninvolved/unbiased bystander here - many people point fingers directly at him as being at least partially responsible for our current problems. I am dealing with the way things are, not the way Greenspan thinks they may someday be.


Regarding the wars:

Iraq, wtf were we ever doing over there? We didn't ever need to do something that could have been taken care of by a cruise missile.
We had 12 years of that, and it got us nothing except a buck to pass from administration to administration. It's getting us nowhere with Iran right now. Considering the stakes, we're going to have to disagree on the wisdom of just standing by to see what happens.


Regarding Unemployment:
Job losses: Worst in 5 years
"Worst in 5 years" is a comparative statement - and what today's numbers are being compared to is a roaring economy built on a housing bubble. Of course the recovery isn't going match those numbers. Even so - based on any rational interpretation of today's data- we've still got great numbers. Of course telling the truth like that gets the media nowhere - it's much sexier to paint the worst picture possible by manipulating the data like this...so that it looks like we urgently need "change".

[ronnieraygun]

it's much sexier to paint the worst picture possible by manipulating the data like this...so that it looks like we urgently need "change".


http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7726/pollsclosedtk1co8lg6.jpg

[JKD]

You hit the nail on the head. Pat Buchanan said something to that effect last year, saying that the Neo-Cons were destroying the Republican party for precisely the reasons you mention. There are more than a few of us who can see the core Republicans and the NeoCon "republicans" as two different entities. The Republican party has been hijacked, for lack of a better word.
I know a number of folks who were Republican and have walked away.

I might go back to the GOP someday if they ever push the neoconservative ideology aside. 'Till then I'm happily independent.

Though maybe it's a good thing to not be rooting for a "team". Kind of allows a person to step back and get some perspective.

[El Nino]

No, you're right. With all that political experience you've learned from the only two presidents since you've been able to vote, you're well qualified to forget about the other 41 and label bush the worst president ever.

He gets a much worse wrap than he deserves. People piss and moan about things he has no control over, and like to recreate history when they think of his blunders. He's done **** I don't like, he's done stuff wrong. Guess what, all presidents do; and you guys like to forget about anything he gets right. When the non-biased political scientists actually try to answer this question, he places right next to clinton in the middle of all the presidents.


You are talking about this mental giant right? You must be proud :)

[Ought Six]

EN:
"You are talking about this mental giant right? You must be proud"Stereotyping people based on their speech deficiencies does not make you a "mental giant".

[El Nino]

EN:Stereotyping people based on their speech deficiencies does not make you a "mental giant".


Come again, who said anything about speech deficiencies though that would be a good starting point

[vryhpyammoadded]

It’s so easy to follow the herd and displace the blame. Bush is but another figurehead provided for the people to lambast and nail to the cross so that they can wash the sin from there hands and feel good about electing the next best canned product of CHANGE assigned to them.

America needs to collectively stop the bitching and wining like children, the blame shifting, and show a little maturity. It needs to grow up and accept the responsibility of having partied decades like there is no tomorrow. Too many people have violated the trust that binds civilized people to their nationality and this has percolated up through the system to the top. In my opinion, to contempt Bush is basically badmouthing yourself and everyone else.

The correct path is hell bent away from collectivism but we now face an old familiar crisis, where historically nations have turned to the easy pacifier of direct governmental income redistribution which will only make things worse in the long run. The only correct answer is to reset the government into one that will tear down socialism and respect individual rights enough to let people fail and learn more often. Remove the security blanket, enforce responsibility, empower the individual and the government will improve.

Bush is nothing compared to this.

[El Nino]

It’s so easy to follow the herd and displace the blame. Bush is but another figurehead provided for the people to lambast and nail to the cross so that they can wash the sin from there hands and feel good about electing the next best canned product of CHANGE assigned to them.

America needs to collectively stop the bitching and wining like children, the blame shifting, and show a little maturity. It needs to grow up and accept the responsibility of having partied decades like there is no tomorrow. Too many people have violated the trust that binds civilized people to their nationality and this has percolated up through the system to the top. In my opinion, to contempt Bush is basically badmouthing yourself and everyone else.

The correct path is hell bent away from collectivism but we now face an old familiar crisis, where historically nations have turned to the easy pacifier of direct governmental income redistribution which will only make things worse in the long run. The only correct answer is to reset the government into one that will tear down socialism and respect individual rights enough to let people fail and learn more often. Remove the security blanket, enforce responsibility, empower the individual and the government will improve.

Bush is nothing compared to this.

Now how exactly should this all come to pass and what exactly are you talking about? Sounds to me like you're saying get rid of all the politicians and start afresh which would be a great idea but I can't see it happening

[Firetxmi]

Now how exactly should this all come to pass and what exactly are you talking about? Sounds to me like you're saying get rid of all the politicians and start afresh which would be a great idea but I can't see it happening

Right. Because then none of them would have enough "experience." :D

[Ought Six]

vhaa:

You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, America is now a defacto socialist nation, as its population desires and votes for socialist policies. Bush's very popular Medicare drug bennies is a good example. The seniors demanded the government "do something" about the high cost of scrips, and they did. I have no doubt but that socialized government medical plans for all is next. With the bluehairs already being the most powerful voting bloc in this nation, and a few dozens of millions more due to retire soon with totally inadequate nest eggs, the screams for more handouts and freebies will become the main driving force behind our government for the foreseeable future. The coming results are obvious. I am thinking that a condo in Costa Rica is looking like a good insurance policy.

[ed316]

The republicans killed the republican brand.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Now how exactly should this all come to pass and what exactly are you talking about? Sounds to me like you're saying get rid of all the politicians and start afresh which would be a great idea but I can't see it happening

That’s an easy answer. Yes, I am saying get rid of the politicians, the incumbents at a minimum and preferably candidates that are climbing the professional politician ladder to higher office. Recycle the government with enough new faces and ideas to upset all the old entrenched kickbacks, deals, lobby and power blocks. This has happened several times throughout US history via third party, party coup and one major overreaction back in 1861.

The most recent large event was the “killing of the whales” and the Democrat sweep of state and local government back from 1974 riding the coattails of public discontent from Vietnam, Watergate and recession and to some extent the more recent minor Republican attempt of the 80’s 90’s in response to the “perceived” anti American corruption of the Democrats.

But, you are correct. I too do not see it happening now primarily because these sorts of changes require that the people hurt enough, through enough successive party changes, without lifestyle improvement, to etch into enough of their collective memory that BOTH parties are screwing them. And, they currently are screwing and will continue to screw quite effectively. These guys DO have it down to a science.

What’s needed is a much larger change like the one that swept TR into power allowing for a near carte blanche on regulatory changes involving trust busting and anti corruption but I’m afraid that’s exactly what illusion these new super slick con men are hoping for in Obama or Hillary and to some extent McCain. They know the US is ripe for another major socialist con game to leverage even more Federal monetary control over the public but I say this is exactly what will bring on the real change due to the Constitution being a document that is the antithesis of collectivism.

They are about to go up and assault the very foundations of the nation and that isn’t good for it at all. Hell, I’m already noticing a huge upswing in Constitutional reform idiocy on the web, on TV and on the radio leveraging public ignorance of the Electoral College and political systems saying its out dated and not “DEMOCRATIC” enough; HAH, the fools! This will only manifest disruptive national behavior in wicked nasty ways highly profitable to the managerial elite. Still, I say that attempt will be a good thing seeing it will surely set the two philosophic poles of individualism and collectivism into a killing frenzy.

Today we don’t have nearly enough pain and discontent for a healthy political change but with what I've seen of the past two decades and what I’m witnessing now available in the three potential candidates, the economic problems soon to arrive and the widening philosophic divide, I predict, in the not so distant future a very high probability of collective pain and angst such as this nation hasn’t felt since the 1930’s; real Grapes of Wrath stuff. Better yet I’d lay odds we are inching close to one hum dinger of a world war that might possibly start here with a civil war.


I doubt we'll avoid it so I say stop the worry and bring it on. Pain is a great teacher and everyone deserves a chance to learn.

[Will938]

When you say 'unbiased' do you mean 'right leaning'?

You seem to be a good example of the biased folks I'm talking about. A neutral person with absolutely no quantitative facts couldn't possibly think that being ranked in the middle right under clinton would be a right bias. I wonder which side of the fence you sit on, being shocked that one of the few presidents you've experienced in your lifetime isn't at the very bottom of the list. Could you explain to me why he would deserve such a ranking when compared to other presidents who oversaw much bigger and more selfish blunders on all levels?

[Wolfmanjack]

Brand? Sense when were we required to have a brand?

Sounds painful i think i will pass.

[El Nino]

That’s an easy answer. Yes, I am saying get rid of the politicians, the incumbents at a minimum and preferably candidates that are climbing the professional politician ladder to higher office. Recycle the government with enough new faces and ideas to upset all the old entrenched kickbacks, deals, lobby and power blocks. This has happened several times throughout US history via third party, party coup and one major overreaction back in 1861.

The most recent large event was the “killing of the whales” and the Democrat sweep of state and local government back from 1974 riding the coattails of public discontent from Vietnam, Watergate and recession and to some extent the more recent minor Republican attempt of the 80’s 90’s in response to the “perceived” anti American corruption of the Democrats.

But, you are correct. I too do not see it happening now primarily because these sorts of changes require that the people hurt enough, through enough successive party changes, without lifestyle improvement, to etch into enough of their collective memory that BOTH parties are screwing them. And, they currently are screwing and will continue to screw quite effectively. These guys DO have it down to a science.

What’s needed is a much larger change like the one that swept TR into power allowing for a near carte blanche on regulatory changes involving trust busting and anti corruption but I’m afraid that’s exactly what illusion these new super slick con men are hoping for in Obama or Hillary and to some extent McCain. They know the US is ripe for another major socialist con game to leverage even more Federal monetary control over the public but I say this is exactly what will bring on the real change due to the Constitution being a document that is the antithesis of collectivism.

They are about to go up and assault the very foundations of the nation and that isn’t good for it at all. Hell, I’m already noticing a huge upswing in Constitutional reform idiocy on the web, on TV and on the radio leveraging public ignorance of the Electoral College and political systems saying its out dated and not “DEMOCRATIC” enough; HAH, the fools! This will only manifest disruptive national behavior in wicked nasty ways highly profitable to the managerial elite. Still, I say that attempt will be a good thing seeing it will surely set the two philosophic poles of individualism and collectivism into a killing frenzy.

Today we don’t have nearly enough pain and discontent for a healthy political change but with what I've seen of the past two decades and what I’m witnessing now available in the three potential candidates, the economic problems soon to arrive and the widening philosophic divide, I predict, in the not so distant future a very high probability of collective pain and angst such as this nation hasn’t felt since the 1930’s; real Grapes of Wrath stuff. Better yet I’d lay odds we are inching close to one hum dinger of a world war that might possibly start here with a civil war.


I doubt we'll avoid it so I say stop the worry and bring it on. Pain is a great teacher and everyone deserves a chance to learn.

vryhpy,

I like the way you think, even though it does paint a pretty bleak picture, I have been wondering for years what it will take before the American public realizes that in truth they are being screwed by a self serving political machine, regardless of party.

How painfull it gets to be before the masses respond remains to be seen, personally I can't see it happening, as times are changing what I see are more controls being initiated, mass monitoring of the population and constant manipulation.

Regretably though this pain will spread worldwide as we are seeing with the current economic situation. The party is definitrly over, it's time to pay the fiddler ans their is no money in the kitty.

[Wolfmanjack]

vryhpy,

I like the way you think, even though it does paint a pretty bleak picture, I have been wondering for years what it will take before the American public realizes that in truth they are being screwed by a self serving political machine, regardless of party..


The majority are sheeple and will follow the marching band to the death.
Sad but true.

I love my country i always have, But it is getting really hard to stomic a lot of the things that are being shoved down our throutes these days.

Wish i knew what the answer to the problems our country is facing were, Then again i doubt anyone would listen. Just like not enough people are listening to Ron Paul. If it isn't plastered on the bloobtube 10 times a min it doesn't seem to exist to people here nowdays.

Its a shame more people know who the hell Oj simpson /M.Jackson/Paris Hilton etc are then who John Glen was or even who the hell is running for president this year.

I guess it comes down to the old saying. Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it over and over and over.............

[9mmRifle]

Well, right now she can sit on my face.... and squirm a bit.

McCain still has a strong lead over the two Dems

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9676/19asgr8.jpg

[annihilation]

Bush has not only killed the Republican brand but he has also killed the American Brand. The man is a walking nuclear bomb. Sometimes you wonder if it wouldn't have been better if he was just our enemy and not our countrymen.