RAF Mountain Rescue

[Britboy]

A little while ago I visited an Air Ambulance at Caernarfon, and saw them have to go out on a call. Found online that Caernarfon airfield used to be RAF Landwrog, and was the home of Mountain Rescue. Apparently with so many training flights through Snowdonia, WWII aircrew crashed pretty regularly and whilst they may actually survive a crash were likely to perish in the hills of North Wales. Hence the RAF surgeon at Landwrog borrowed some ropes and set out with a few volunteers to rescue these airmen.

So I've had a little interest in this organisation - as I've also seen Sea Kings from RAF Valley (Anglesey) dapping about Snowdonia when I've been on the hills there. And got to visit a SAR squadron at RAF Boulmer (I think?) when I was an air cadet as a wee nipper.

I understand there are Sea King SAR helicopters at Valley and probably Boulmer if I remember right, and RN SAR helos at Culdrose and on the Clyde. But what other units are there? I.E. the ground element of SAR, the mountain rescue teams. Or do they just rely on civilian mountaineers and rescue volunteers for the ground side of it?

Do RAF Mountain Rescue (the helicopters or the ground troops) have any role in providing Combat Search & Rescue on operations, or are they for use in the UK only, on primarily civil taskings?

I remember hearing the RAF Regiment contribute personnel to the 'Joint Personnel Recovery' squadron, which would imply that these helos and gunners have the SAR role on ops, and the RAF Mountain Rescue and yellow Sea King squadrons are only for UK tasks?

Cheers
BB

[baboon6]

A little while ago I visited an Air Ambulance at Caernarfon, and saw them have to go out on a call. Found online that Caernarfon airfield used to be RAF Landwrog, and was the home of Mountain Rescue. Apparently with so many training flights through Snowdonia, WWII aircrew crashed pretty regularly and whilst they may actually survive a crash were likely to perish in the hills of North Wales. Hence the RAF surgeon at Landwrog borrowed some ropes and set out with a few volunteers to rescue these airmen.

So I've had a little interest in this organisation - as I've also seen Sea Kings from RAF Valley (Anglesey) dapping about Snowdonia when I've been on the hills there. And got to visit a SAR squadron at RAF Boulmer (I think?) when I was an air cadet as a wee nipper.

I understand there are Sea King SAR helicopters at Valley and probably Boulmer if I remember right, and RN SAR helos at Culdrose and on the Clyde. But what other units are there? I.E. the ground element of SAR, the mountain rescue teams. Or do they just rely on civilian mountaineers and rescue volunteers for the ground side of it?

Do RAF Mountain Rescue (the helicopters or the ground troops) have any role in providing Combat Search & Rescue on operations, or are they for use in the UK only, on primarily civil taskings?

I remember hearing the RAF Regiment contribute personnel to the 'Joint Personnel Recovery' squadron, which would imply that these helos and gunners have the SAR role on ops, and the RAF Mountain Rescue and yellow Sea King squadrons are only for UK tasks?

Cheers
BB

Correct, they are used in the UK (including the Falkland Islands) and Cyprus. IIRC a flight within 28 Squadron (who fly Merlins) have the CSAR tasking with RAF Regt providing the ground extraction force.

More on RAF Mountain Rescue teams and SAR in general:
http://www.rafmountainrescue.com/

http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/abouttheraf/searchandrescue.cfm

Mountain rescue

The four RAF Mountain Rescue Teams are normally based at RAF Kinloss, near Inverness; Leuchars, near St Andrews; Leeming, in Yorkshire; and RAF Valley in North Wales. Each team has seven full-time personnel and up to 30 RAF volunteers. The RAF volunteers get trained in their spare time.
All team members have excellent fitness, so they can search large areas of land without getting tired. Together, the RAF personnel and RAF volunteers make a highly trained, skilled and well-equipped team.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Mountain_Rescue_Service_(United_Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Mountain_Rescue_Service_%28United_Kingdom))

[Britboy]

Cheers Baboon,

Seems odd that the SAR units have no operational role overseas - that they are used in the UK exclusively. I'd have thought if you had a deployable unit for CSAR/JPR, then when not deployed they could be employed in SAR around the UK - makes sense for them to be practicing the job and doing some good at the same time. But as for non-deployable UK SAR coverage, isn't that the remit of the Coastguard or another similar domestic organisation, and not the Armed Forces with a foreign remit?

Thanks for outlining 28 Sqn also. Merlin seems an impressive aircraft, but I was interested to find that CSAR/JPR is an extra duty allotted to the sqn, which is in all other respects, presumably the same as any other SH sqn, with some RAF Regt assigned it looks like. 28 sqn appears to not be a dedicated CSAR/JPR sqn.

For such a national capability as CSAR/JPR, shouldn't a specialised unit be established with that role as its remit? I've no doubt that the men and the machines are at the top of their game, but it seems unusual that this capability is relatively ad hoc and an 'extra duty'. After all, what if 28 sqn is deployed elsewhere/not deployed at all/on exercise as a SH sqn abroad when CSAR is needed?

When such a specialised CSAR/JPR unit is not deployed of course, UK employment could, you've guessed it, feature SAR coverage for people who try and cross the channel in a bathtub or suchlike, helping out the Coastguard or whoever. But wouldn't a dedicated deployable CSAR/JPR unit be the way to go?

[baboon6]

UK SAR helicopter coverage is shared (for some unknown reason) between the RAF, RN and HM Coast Guard. The Coast Guard is in overall charge of all maritime rescue operations, both air- and sea-launched. There has been talk that in the future the Coast Guard will take over the role completely but who knows.

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-hmcg_rescue.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty's_Coastguard

As to why there is no dedicated CSAR unit- I don't really know. Presumably over time quite a lot of 28 Sqn (and the new Merlin unit, 78 Sqn) aircrew could learn this role- as I stated I believe a flight within 28 Sqn specialises in CSAR. I would think the reason it isn't larger is that the chances of it being used have historically been seen as pretty low- CSAR didn't seem to be part of RAF Cold War thinking. And of course the usual reason-money, lack of.

For the last question, no, I think the chances of Merlins being used in domestic SAR are extremely low. The future probably lies mainly with contractor-flown aircraft of HM Coast Guard.

[Britboy]

Mmm, one organisation for domestic SAR seems to be the way forwards. You could say we are already there as HMCG leads on it. But we are not really as its largely dependent on RAF and RN too, and they're not just undeployed CSAR forces helping out whilst back in UK either, domestic SAR is their full role.

I suppose you could streamline things by making domestic SAR all Coastguard as the helos don't deploy for CSAR, but I'm thinking maybe we are missing something here... it's likely a 'perk of the job' or source of variety for RAF and RN crews.

Think about it, a different operating environment, a different and rewarding role, challenging flying, a chance to see the missus and kids more often than being in a deployable unit might allow. It's a different tour, and I suppose 'rationalising' UK SAR would take this option away from RAF and RN crews, probably not helping morale massively. Plus, if its not broke, don't fix it.

Point taken with the unlikelihood of CSAR helos being used domestically when not deployed. The location that allows effective helo fleet management is unlikely to be a load of dispersed locations around our coasts and mountains. Crews are likely to be training, on courses or with other commitments throughout the working day to be working up to next deployment and staying current - not sitting in their helos waiting for the call to go.

The only reason I thought that CSAR assets would be used domestically when not deployed is I thought those yellow Sea Kings were deployable CSAR assets - it was the only reason I could think of that meant the RAF and RN were running those helos.

Now we know a flight of 28 sqn has CSAR remit, and the yellow Sea Kings don't have a role on ops overseas, I see how you need different organisations for CSAR and SAR in the UK: just how I imagine the US Coastguard and not USAF deal with domestic SAR in the USA.

[Dave-Sappy]

Just a bit to add...I'm not sure if its the case now, but there used to be a load of RAF Search and Rescue stuff around at my local (former) RAF base, RAF Stafford. They had a shedload of new Merc Sprinter 4x4s all kitted out for SAR (Domestic stuff that is...had blue lights and stripes etc). Was told theyd got more vans than qualified drivers!

Doubt they are still at Stafford now its become an Army base though.
Hope that helps.

[Britboy]

Cheers Dave, I was actually looking for info on the ground side (thought I had a decent handle on the air side but got derailed there learning about how it really is and who flies what), so that's good stuff.

Stafford doesn't seem to be too close to anywhere that SAR might come in useful though... Okay you've got some hills in Shropshire but it's hardly Snowdonia, and you're nowhere near the coast either - was Stafford a holding/logistic station for new kit on it's way to the units do you think?

I mean if I was going to have SAR kit ready-to-go, I'd want it near the Lake District, Peak District, Pennines, Wales, Scotland, and the coastlines (mainly Southwest, all those Cornish cliffs)...

[Eoin666]

The four RAF Mountain Rescue Teams are normally based at RAF Kinloss, near Inverness; Leuchars, near St Andrews; Leeming, in Yorkshire; and RAF Valley in North Wales. Each team has seven full-time personnel and up to 30 RAF volunteers. The RAF volunteers get trained in their spare time.
All team members have excellent fitness, so they can search large areas of land without getting tired. Together, the RAF personnel and RAF volunteers make a highly trained, skilled and well-equipped team.

Nearly volunteered for RAF mountain rescue when I was at St Athens in south Wales, regrettably never got round to it, shame....meant giving up one weekend a month to be on call if I remember......

[Britboy]

Hey eoin, any idea what the course entails?

And who are the 7 full-time personnel, is it the RAF Regt GDT team doubling up perhaps?

Cheers
BB

[Dave-Sappy]

Stafford doesn't seem to be too close to anywhere that SAR might come in useful though... Okay you've got some hills in Shropshire but it's hardly Snowdonia, and you're nowhere near the coast either - was Stafford a holding/logistic station for new kit on it's way to the units do you think?

I mean if I was going to have SAR kit ready-to-go, I'd want it near the Lake District, Peak District, Pennines, Wales, Scotland, and the coastlines (mainly Southwest, all those Cornish cliffs)...


I agree, It seems an odd place for them to be based. It may well have just been a holding location for the gear as you suggest. Havn't seen the vehicles around for a while though so they might not be there anymore.

That said, knowing the MoD it wouldn't surprise me if they based it out of Stafford... :)

[Eoin666]

I agree, It seems an odd place for them to be based. It may well have just been a holding location for the gear as you suggest. Havn't seen the vehicles around for a while though so they might not be there anymore.

That said, knowing the MoD it wouldn't surprise me if they based it out of Stafford... :)

Maybe Stafford as it's pretty central for both Wales, Peak district, Penines etc??


Hey eoin, any idea what the course entails?

And who are the 7 full-time personnel, is it the RAF Regt GDT team doubling up perhaps?

Cheers
BB

Hi BB, couldn't tell any more I'm afraid,, but don't think it was exclusively RAF Reg full time, maybe RAF PTI, but not sure, it's something I regret now not applying for....but back then work at St Athens for us coming back from RAF Germany fast jet Sqns and suddenly having to work with civvy contractors was a right pain in the ar*e, all of which served to make every weekend off, pretty valuable....sorry not more helpful