Euthanasia debate woman found dead

[TheSteve]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/20/france.tumor/index.html#cnnSTCText

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/TheSteve412/artsebire.jpg

PARIS, France (CNN) -- A French woman severely disfigured by facial tumors has been been found dead just two days after a court rejected her request for an assisted suicide.

Sebire had suffered from a rare and incurable form of cancer for eight years.

Medical examiners were Thursday looking into the death of 52-year-old Chantal Sebire -- whose case had prompted nominally Roman Catholic France to reexamine its stance on euthanasia -- to determine whether anything illegal had taken place.
It was not immediately clear how Sebire died.
Sebire had suffered from esthesioneuroblastoma, a rare and incurable form of cancer for eight years, developing tumors in her nasal passages and sinuses that distorted her face and caused her nose and eyes to bulge.

The woman from Dijon, in eastern France, said drugs were ineffective against the excruciating pain caused by the condition and there was no reason doctors should not be permitted to hasten her death.
Assisted suicide is illegal in France, however. The law permits only passive euthanasia -- removing feeding and hydration tubes when a person is in a coma, or inducing a coma and then removing the tubes.
Sebire's lawyer had tried to convince a French court that it was "barbaric" to put her through the ordeal of dying slowly in an artificial coma, something that could take up to two weeks while her three children looked on in anguish.
The court turned down the appeal Monday.
At the same time, Sebire wrote a letter to French President Nicolas Sarkozy
appealing for help, but he responded by suggesting top doctors should reexamine her for a second opinion.

Her plight and the questions it raised caused so much public debate in France that when Sebire was found dead Wednesday night, it made front-page news in heavyweight papers including Le Figaro and Le Parisien.
CNN Senior International Correspondent Jim Bitterman in Paris said the Sebire had many supporters in France with hundreds of people writing to her to express their backing.

"One of the reasons for this is this woman was a relatively young mother of three children and many people could sympathize. People think 'what would I do in the same circumstances.'"
A French group called the Association for the Right to Die with Dignity, which took up Sebire's cause, believes laws must be changed to take such cases into account.

"It is not the liberty of a politician or a doctor -- it's the liberty of the person who is suffering, who has a terminal disease," said Jean-Luc Romero, president of the group.

"It's only the decision of the people who have a terminal disease to decide (whether they may die)."
Others disagree.

"It isn't because a citizen says 'I want this' that we should modify the law," said Patrick Verspieren, a Jesuit bio-ethics expert. "The law is already quite open."


France's prime minister, health and justice ministers all made clear they did not believe changes in French law are needed.
Pretty sad story. They haven't figured out if she killed herself or not, but it obviously wouldn't be that surprising. I would have killed myself long before if I were in that position.

I just don't see the problem if someone wants help in committing suicide, particularly in cases where he/she has extreme pain and can not be cured.

[Bongopete]

Its a pity that such laws realllly dont help anyone.

[Mastermind]

I don't understand the controversy. Just two little bottles of a certain over the counter cold medication and you just don't ever wake up again. Painless and sure. Why make such a huge deal over self desired suicide when no one seems to give a danm about murdering children in the womb...they don't even ask the kids if they might want to live (although I am sure they know the answer to the question)?

[TheSteve]

I don't understand the controversy. Just two little bottles of a certain over the counter cold medication and you just don't ever wake up again. Painless and sure. Why make such a huge deal over self desired suicide when no one seems to give a danm about murdering children in the womb...they don't even ask the kids if they might want to live (although I am sure they know the answer to the question)?
I think the controversy is more over whether medical professionals should be allowed to help. I think just about everyone realizes they can buy stuff or shoot themselves, but then the body has to be found, or if he/she calls it in before hand, you would still have to dispatch an EMT or something to that extent.

And this has nothing to do with abortion.

[Bongopete]

I mean it isnt like if someone really wants to put an end to their life that they cant do it.

[Herrmannek]

If someone helped her.. They should find him and hang on his/her balls... I don't like idea of some psycho killing someone with cold blood even if this was person's wish and then walking free...

[Mastermind]

I think the controversy is more over whether medical professionals should be allowed to help. I think just about everyone realizes they can buy stuff or shoot themselves, but then the body has to be found, or if he/she calls it in before hand, you would still have to dispatch an EMT or something to that extent.

And this has nothing to do with abortion.
No...but it has everything to do with state sanctioned taking of lives. I'm making the comparison that the state on the one hand can kill without regard or reservation and on the other, with thinking, viable adults, the state suddenly gets all squeemish and moralistic. It's hypocrisy showing the best view.

[Calanen]

If someone helped her.. They should find him and hang on his/her balls... I don't like idea of some psycho killing someone with cold blood even if this was person's wish and then walking free...

You dont know - that the person was a psycho. A lot of doctors help end peoples lives, on the quiet..and they arent psychos. They just deepen the pain medication, morphine, until the patient slips away.

Australia had the only legal means of ending your own life, in the Northern Territory. But the Federal government overruled it.

I see so many dignified old people, forced to hang on in immense pain, falling apart. It would be better for them, and for the people around them, that if they wished to end their lives, they can do so -and have the assistance of medical professionals if they wish.

[Bongopete]

You dont know - that the person was a psycho. A lot of doctors help end peoples lives, on the quiet..and they arent psychos. They just deepen the pain medication, morphine, until the patient slips away.



I see so many dignified old people, forced to hang on in immense pain, falling apart. It would be better for them, and for the people around them, that if they wished to end their lives, they can do so -and have the assistance of medical professionals if they wish.


i agree with you on both points. the first one is much more common than people think.

[The Dane]

Poor lady..:-(
I hope she will rest easy.

[NavyTimes]

I was actually relieved to read that she was finally at peace, poor woman.

[Playtime]

If someone helped her.. They should find him and hang on his/her balls... I don't like idea of some psycho killing someone with cold blood even if this was person's wish and then walking free...


Would love to hear you say that the day you find yourself .. or your loved ones in a situation where a peadeful death is desired but denied.

The lady was reported to have said .. in great anguish in doubt .. that no one would have allowed even a dog to suffer her condition.

[bigvig]

Why can't they let people like that pass on with dignity? Stupid inconsiderate laws. I can't imagine having to live like that.

[gaijinsamurai]

^ I agree.

[LaoSexMachine]

a dog can be euthanise if it's in pain because it's 'humane'. where's the 'humane' treatment for people in suffering?

[Andy S]

Because god says so............

Right..................

[Wolfmanjack]

If someone helped her.. They should find him and hang on his/her balls... I don't like idea of some psycho killing someone with cold blood even if this was person's wish and then walking free...

Remember this when or if you ever are in the same position this woman was. Or for that matter any type of illness that will wind up killing you slowly and painfully.

You don't have to like it mate, It is your decision to do it or not. Injecting your beliefs and prejudice's into another's life is not something any of us should do.

This same kind of (Morality/I am right your wrong/My god is better then yours) thinking is why we have wars and people murder each other over stupid religious/political/etc reasons.

Quite frankly if it isn't any or your business but out. What one person does to his or her body is their decision not anyone else's. (And lets not get into the abortion debate you know what i am talking about)

I used to work as a CNA in Rest homes. Before you judge others decisions on what to do with their own life spend a little time in their shoes.

The entire god debate is kind of pointless here.. What right do you have to tell someone they can or can not take their own life? You have no right whatsoever it is their decision and you should respect it as such.

I mean you no disrespect at all Herrmannek (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=1367) But i hope one day you will wake up and see that the world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is. I hope you never have to make the choice this woman was forced to make. I hope you never have to watch a loved one wither away in constant pain, I hope you never are forced to make these tough decisions.

[Kilgor]

Why can't they let people like that pass on with dignity? Stupid inconsiderate laws. I can't imagine having to live like that.

Because religious bigotry overrides common sense and decency.

[Herrmannek]

Remember this when or if you ever are in the same position this woman was. Or for that matter any type of illness that will wind up killing you slowly and painfully.

You don't have to like it mate, It is your decision to do it or not. Injecting your beliefs and prejudice's into another's life is not something any of us should do.

This same kind of (Morality/I am right your wrong/My god is better then yours) thinking is why we have wars and people murder each other over stupid religious/political/etc reasons.

Quite frankly if it isn't any or your business but out. What one person does to his or her body is their decision not anyone else's. (And lets not get into the abortion debate you know what i am talking about)

I used to work as a CNA in Rest homes. Before you judge others decisions on what to do with their own life spend a little time in their shoes.

The entire god debate is kind of pointless here.. What right do you have to tell someone they can or can not take their own life? You have no right whatsoever it is their decision and you should respect it as such.

I mean you no disrespect at all Herrmannek (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=1367) But i hope one day you will wake up and see that the world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is. I hope you never have to make the choice this woman was forced to make. I hope you never have to watch a loved one wither away in constant pain, I hope you never are forced to make these tough decisions.
I'm not talking about woman I'm talking about anyone who helped her...

[Will938]

Here it's unlawful to assist someone in suicide, but it's only a class C misdemeanor. So it's in the same bracket as a speeding ticket.

[deagle]

i think the key is she has MEDICAL justification with present options considered/used. its almost as if she was pushed to suicide herself, when she asked for legal/medical method as more humane. this was an extreme case, and they should've taken that fact if she was on pain-relief meds (supporting she was in fact, in excruciating and unbearable pain) for this extreme situation. she brings up a point of it almost like physical torture though.

[Ichhabe]

I'm not talking about woman I'm talking about anyone who helped her...

You cold hearted soulless bastard! If a dear friend of mine was in such a condition and he asked if I might help, I would of course hesitate. But I would help, I can assure you that. I am not sure if you have seen a proper picture of that poor woman and what she looked like. But from what I've seen she has endured a pain beyound you, me and a 1000 others. How she was able to hold on for so long, only she could have given the answer, but lucky for her, she is in no pain anymore.
This is not a person who want to die because her boyfriend left her or that she just got bored one day because her mascara didn't match her sweater. This was a person left blind, had no taste, had no smell and was in such pain that as I said earlier, could not imagine.
I'm gonna stop now, because I am actually foaming and could write something I would regret, but before I stop; Get out of that medevil catholic thinking of yours, step out in the third millennium and take a deep breath. You are overcontroled by priests who has their learning from the dark ages.

[seraosha]

Your emotional based arguments carry no weight.

Try logic, **** or GTFO.

[pascalywood]

Why can't they let people like that pass on with dignity? Stupid inconsiderate laws. I can't imagine having to live like that.

Our pets have the right to euthanasia when they are in pain. Why are they allowed to die with more dignity than us?

If a man really owns something, its his life. He should have the right to die with dignity rather than a shotgun blast in the mouth

[johanness]

You cold hearted soulless bastard! If a dear friend of mine was in such a condition and he asked if I might help, I would of course hesitate. But I would help, I can assure you that. I am not sure if you have seen a proper picture of that poor woman and what she looked like. But from what I've seen she has endured a pain beyound you, me and a 1000 others. How she was able to hold on for so long, only she could have given the answer, but lucky for her, she is in no pain anymore.
This is not a person who want to die because her boyfriend left her or that she just got bored one day because her mascara didn't match her sweater. This was a person left blind, had no taste, had no smell and was in such pain that as I said earlier, could not imagine.
I'm gonna stop now, because I am actually foaming and could write something I would regret, but before I stop; Get out of that medevil catholic thinking of yours, step out in the third millennium and take a deep breath. You are overcontroled by priests who has their learning from the dark ages.

Totally agree with you, Ichhabe.

We had the same discussion some time ago...

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120340&highlight=Euthanasia&page=2

Some people need to learn more about life, before making statements about
life and death.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Our pets have the right to euthanasia when they are in pain. Why are they allowed to die with more dignity than us?

If a man really owns something, its his life. He should have the right to die with dignity rather than a shotgun blast in the mouth

It is just an inconsistency of how we resolve conflicting values... self-determination vs. value of life... some people follow self-determination, others life.

But I must find puzzling are folks who get more upset about someone in her situation trying to end her own life as an exercise of self-determination than some eight year old boy killed as collateral damage.

Go figure.

[Herrmannek]

You cold hearted soulless bastard! If a dear friend of mine was in such a condition and he asked if I might help, I would of course hesitate. But I would help, I can assure you that. I am not sure if you have seen a proper picture of that poor woman and what she looked like. But from what I've seen she has endured a pain beyound you, me and a 1000 others. How she was able to hold on for so long, only she could have given the answer, but lucky for her, she is in no pain anymore.
This is not a person who want to die because her boyfriend left her or that she just got bored one day because her mascara didn't match her sweater. This was a person left blind, had no taste, had no smell and was in such pain that as I said earlier, could not imagine.
I'm gonna stop now, because I am actually foaming and could write something I would regret, but before I stop; Get out of that medevil catholic thinking of yours, step out in the third millennium and take a deep breath. You are overcontroled by priests who has their learning from the dark ages.

I don't know why you mix catholic church in this. In my reasoning I don't care about this woman at all. I just don't want state to sanction any sort of assisted suicide, for my personal safety. Someday I may end up in situation like she did, and many compassionate people like you or just sad bastards wanting me leave this hole may give me an idea of finishing myself together with proposing friendly push out of the window on the way out. And in time of pain I may agree. I surely never been in pain she was, but from my experience with pain I know you don't need a lot to become very easily manipulated, and when pain is gone or mood is changing so may change my view on life... Plus if things like that become a practice rather than exception you better don't became old and sick... Call me heartless coward but for my own security I deny right to anyone to assist someone else's suicide.