HK rant

[Hippo]

Found this on the internets:

"In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards...

But it doesn't matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks... If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civillians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn't fit any accesories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn't it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don't need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we've fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don't believe us, it is because you aren't a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you're civillians, so we won't sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you'll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you'll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing Department"

http://www.munroedesign.com/hosted/images/misc/badbrochure.jpg

[vinny_121_ND]

LOL. Well written, but exactly what the author wants is unclear, or which other gun manufacturer is preferred.

[Little J]

He's not really getting his point across...


LOL, not fan is he!

[deagle]

what was the author's purpose again ??

the xm8 was still developing at that point, and a pictinnary (can never get the spelling right!) rail system would definitely be available for mounting of battle accessories, do it doesn't necessarily mean it won't "fit any accessories known to man".

the g3 and mp5 are still world-class weapons today, after MANY years of service.

H&K sucks ? alot of the board members here would like to differ i'll bet...

[James]

LOL. Well written, but exactly what the author wants is unclear, or which other gun manufacturer is preferred.

It's the HK attitude... ;)



H&K sucks ? alot of the board members here would like to differ i'll bet...

Their products are fine, but they have a reputation for having an attitude. Too many people, they are a bunch of Deutches arschloch.

Take the 416 - great rifle, but if you want to disassemble it properly, you need a $500 tool to get the barrel off, and a $75, proprietary screw driver to work on the rear sight. I think you need a special tool just to make adjustments to the rear site. Avery other AR out there can be taken apart completely with about $50 worth of tools, and you can use the tip of a round, or a nail, to adjust the sights.

That's why they have a certain reputation...

"Hey guys, nice rifle... $2000 per? That's cool... $500 for that special bar to remove the barrel? Couldn't just use a wrench like every other manufacturer out there? Douche." :roll:

[T.H.E. rooster]

I laughed when I saw this on ar15.com. I would imagine that it will get more flak than laughs here though.
This made for a good laugh after spending a week or two of searching for a mp5 clone that wasn't an over priced, unrealiable, bastard of a gun. As I'm sure you can tell, my search was fruitless.p-)

[Hilbert]

HK makes great weapons, I'll agree on that much. However, I won't go so far as some people tend to hype "OMFG BEST OF THE BEST AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS AN IDIOT!!111"

Fine weapons, nothing more, nothing less.

My two cents.
Hilde

[vinny_121_ND]

HK makes great weapons, I'll agree on that much. However, I won't go so far as some people tend to hype "OMFG BEST OF THE BEST AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS AN IDIOT!!111"

Fine weapons, nothing more, nothing less.

My two cents.
Hilde

They're just tools to getting the job done, nothing less, nothing more. I mean, which knife is better? Cutco or Wusthof? So yes, I do agree with you.

[PvtPyle]

I laughed when I saw this on ar15.com. I would imagine that it will get more flak than laughs here though.
This made for a good laugh after spending a week or two of searching for a mp5 clone that wasn't an over priced, unrealiable, bastard of a gun. As I'm sure you can tell, my search was fruitless.p-)

Thats because there are more fanboys with a lot less actual experience here. Of course their airsoft works in the dirt!

And at the time this was written the XM8 had been developed, tested and found seriously wanting by the Rangers. I have a bit of an inside track as to who wrote it, when and who he talked to on the test team....

[JoaMei]

Actually hes just angry that nhe cant buy a H&K Gun because they dont sell to civillians. ;-)

[James]

Actually hes just angry that nhe cant buy a H&K Gun because they dont sell to civillians. ;-)

Actually they do...

[JoaMei]

Actually they do...

Yes, but not the Guns he wants probably. ;-)

[T.H.E. rooster]

They won't sell me a semi mp5, or G36. SL8 my ass....
So phooey on you HK!p-)


Seriously though, I would bankrupt myself if they released a semi-auto mp5. I mean seriously, those things are sexy.

[Hippo]

Actually hes just angry that nhe cant buy a H&K Gun because they dont sell to civillians. ;-)

Youre an idiot

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/products.html
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/rifles.html

You see where it says Civilian Products?

[conefire]

The Rainbow Six I played had a white M14 on it.

[Hippo]

I think youre talking about Rogue Spear. The original Rainbow six cover looked like this:

http://rainbowsix.3dretreat.com/images/box/rb6box.jpg

[foxtrot023]

HK can be funny in somethings but their guns are very reliable and accurate. Had an HK USP, now a p2000 and hopefully will get a P30 soon

ed. Not that I don´t have my sights on other gun brands too. Hopefully the Walther PPS will be mine, my preciousss

[theholeinthedonut]

MPnet, the ultimate treasure chest of gun expertise!http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/theholeinthedonut/Divers/iconyeswq4.gif

[KoTeMoRe]

It's the HK attitude... ;)



Their products are fine, but they have a reputation for having an attitude. Too many people, they are a bunch of Deutches arschloch.

Take the 416 - great rifle, but if you want to disassemble it properly, you need a $500 tool to get the barrel off, and a $75, proprietary screw driver to work on the rear sight. I think you need a special tool just to make adjustments to the rear site. Avery other AR out there can be taken apart completely with about $50 worth of tools, and you can use the tip of a round, or a nail, to adjust the sights.

That's why they have a certain reputation...

"Hey guys, nice rifle... $2000 per? That's cool... $500 for that special bar to remove the barrel? Couldn't just use a wrench like every other manufacturer out there? Douche." :roll:

German options come at a price...alwaysp-).

[LaoSexMachine]

HK makes great weapons, I'll agree on that much. However, I won't go so far as some people tend to hype "OMFG BEST OF THE BEST AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS AN IDIOT!!111"

Fine weapons, nothing more, nothing less.

My two cents.
Hilde

same here. love some of their stuff.

[boy1000]

It's the HK attitude... ;)



Their products are fine, but they have a reputation for having an attitude. Too many people, they are a bunch of Deutches arschloch.

Take the 416 - great rifle, but if you want to disassemble it properly, you need a $500 tool to get the barrel off, and a $75, proprietary screw driver to work on the rear sight. I think you need a special tool just to make adjustments to the rear site. Avery other AR out there can be taken apart completely with about $50 worth of tools, and you can use the tip of a round, or a nail, to adjust the sights.

That's why they have a certain reputation...

"Hey guys, nice rifle... $2000 per? That's cool... $500 for that special bar to remove the barrel? Couldn't just use a wrench like every other manufacturer out there? Douche." :roll:


I do not know how HK are in US, but in Europe they have a reputation to be a bit arrogant to the clients. I have heard stories from clients who is smaller SF groups here in Europe, where they have been really slapped around.

A gun is a gun in many ways..... But yes HK are making some of the better, all the best to their engineers

[JoaMei]

Youre an idiot

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/products.html
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/rifles.html

You see where it says Civilian Products?

But I dont see a MP5 or HK416/417, PSG1, MSG90 or the other stuff I would want.

Basically all stuff on the HK USA site I could buy here in Germany too. Nothing special.

[deagle]

sometimes you pay for quality products. its like that way with their cars. they charge double/triple the cost of regular oil jobs b/c of "higher quality" "standards and procedures", but they do it basically the same way as any other facility probably.

[Breiflabb]

No sure, but maybe the lack of civvie-guns is because of German laws? Never bothered me, since the laws here in norway are pretty strict.

500$ tool to remove barrel? If so, so what? It is a military weapon and only the gunsmiths are suppose to remove the barrel anyway. And they are making civvie hk416's...

[Hippo]

But I dont see a MP5 or HK416/417, PSG1, MSG90 or the other stuff I would want.

Basically all stuff on the HK USA site I could buy here in Germany too. Nothing special.

So what? Who gives a flying f*ck what you want? You said HK doesnt sell to civilians and I proved to you that they did mmkay?

[James]

I do not know how HK are in US, but in Europe they have a reputation to be a bit arrogant to the clients. I have heard stories from clients who is smaller SF groups here in Europe, where they have been really slapped around.

That sounds about right.

[James]

500$ tool to remove barrel? If so, so what? It is a military weapon and only the gunsmiths are suppose to remove the barrel anyway. And they are making civvie hk416's...

I'd say military or police... I agree - only armorers should remove the barrel, not the user. It's still an asinine thing to do though, especially for organizations with limited budgets. HK416 barrel removal tool - $500; AR15 combo tool (can also remove upper receiver extension and muzzle devices) is about $30. To adjust the rear sight on the HK, you need a special tool like this (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=95303154), which, new, costs about $75. With ARs you can use your fingers. For free.

[KoTeMoRe]

I'd say military or police... I agree - only armorers should remove the barrel, not the user. It's still an asinine thing to do though, especially for organizations with limited budgets. HK416 barrel removal tool - $500; AR15 combo tool (can also remove upper receiver extension and muzzle devices) is about $30. To adjust the rear sight on the HK, you need a special tool like this (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=95303154), which, new, costs about $75. With ARs you can use your fingers. For free.

Man you sure are ranting too much. Ze germans have years of development to fill up. So you better pay what they ask. Or they will raise the prices...

Damn 75 bucks...you can pay in euro, p-) that will help.

[vinny_121_ND]

I do not know how HK are in US, but in Europe they have a reputation to be a bit arrogant to the clients. I have heard stories from clients who is smaller SF groups here in Europe, where they have been really slapped around.


That's interesting. What happened? Did HK overcharge their weapons to them?

[esquiar]

It doesnt f*cking matter that only an armorer should be removing the barrel, THE TOOL SHOULDN'T COST $500! What is wrong with a 25¢ allen wrench?

[conefire]

Funny how people write rants about HK for selling expensive guns and using proprietary tools but it's apparently perfectly fine for Colt to use their political influence with high ranking Army officers to get 300+million dollar deals.

[California Joe]

I've never fired a single weapon made by HK but I know marketing. Customer service is one of the most important, if not the single most important thing a company can use to ensure repeat business.

I find it bizarre that a company that markets its brand effectively in the form of merchandising (black, red and white T shirts for fanboys etc..) would ignore the benefits of simple courteous customer service.

First thing I would do is include the sight tool free with every purchase and offer discounts to agencies on their other tools. In an insular world like the military, PMCs and LEOs and even shooters in general, word of mouth is everything. Especially when people are more than willing to badmouth any product on the internet.

Don't even get me started on the ad agency that put together that ad and how many people must have reviewed it within the company before it went out like that....:cantbeli:

[James]

Funny how people write rants about HK for selling expensive guns and using proprietary tools but it's apparently perfectly fine for Colt to use their political influence with high ranking Army officers to get 300+million dollar deals.

Maybe you can start a new post about Colt. This one is about HK.

[Macs.]

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civillians. Because you suck, and we hate you.
H&K is selling that specific gun(s) in civlian version(s) now. And last time I checked, aren't there strict laws on civilian Firearm import in the US ?


Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn't fit any accesories known to man, but that is your fault.The XM8 is canceled, so... ? The melting problems occured while the Rifle still was developed. :roll:


At the end of the day you can bitch and moan about a product all you want on a internet forum, it doesn't change much. If you are not happy with quality/customer service you simply look for another company that is producing what you want. There is no other company offering the product you want ? Well, tough time.

The H&K bashing seems to be a trend right now, I guess if it makes you happy, go on. H&K is a successful company and in the last years has striked some big deals. So there seems to be something they make right.

I am not saying that there shouldn't be any critic and alot of critic sure may be right, but what some people write down is simply getting boring. Like the first post in this thread, sounds like a angry teenager bitching about his Parents. It's just general bitching without any content or focusing on any real problem or blaming H&K for things they don't even influence. "H&K is stupid because they don't sell me a Rifle, and they are only popular because they are on the cover of video games and movies"... Must really be the reason why Militaries around the world are adopting their Firearms in masses.

[KoTeMoRe]

I've never fired a single weapon made by HK but I know marketing. Customer service is one of the most important, if not the single most important thing a company can use to ensure repeat business.

I find it bizarre that a company that markets its brand effectively in the form of merchandising (black, red and white T shirts for fanboys etc..) would ignore the benefits of simple courteous customer service.

First thing I would do is include the sight tool free with every purchase and offer discounts to agencies on their other tools. In an insular world like the military, PMCs and LEOs and even shooters in general, word of mouth is everything. Especially when people are more than willing to badmouth any product on the internet.

Don't even get me started on the ad agency that put together that ad and how many people must have reviewed it within the company before it went out like that....:cantbeli:


Think about it as a german car...it's the intrinsic quality of it that makes them feel important and charge you half the car for 4 leather alpina seaters on a BMW.p-)

Mofo's.

[esquiar]

Hey, nobodys saying that HK makes crappy firearms. Its just that they overprice everything and are total ****heads to their customers. And personally, I think that the rant at the beginning of this thread is funny as hell.

[KoTeMoRe]

Hey, nobodys saying that HK makes crappy firearms. Its just that they overprice everything and are total ****heads to their customers. And personally, I think that the rant at the beginning of this thread is funny as hell.

Try that to any German Dealership. 8000 USD for an "integrated GPS".

Wunderbar.

[Macs.]

Is someone holding a gun against your head pressuring you to buy German products or something?

You can also buy a Alfa Romeo or a Dodge... :roll:

[California Joe]

Hahaha look at Macs getting all nationalistic.

[KoTeMoRe]

Is someone holding a gun against your head pressuring you to buy German products or something?

You can also buy a Alfa Romeo or a Dodge... :roll:



it's the intrinsic quality

From a previous post...

I love teutonic cars...that doesn't mean the carmakers don't act like greedy vampires.

I mean they sell their cars half of the price, then comes the Options list.p-)

[muck]

Isn't all this fuzz about H&K and German products nationalism in reverse?

[KoTeMoRe]

Isn't all this fuzz about H&K and German products nationalism in reverse?

No it's about killing this thread by turning it to a overgeneralizing farce.

Oh btw 4000 euros for 4 Fulda- 225 runflats. Come on.p-)

[Laworkerbee]

Take the 416 - great rifle, but if you want to disassemble it properly, you need a $500 tool to get the barrel off, and a $75, proprietary screw driver to work on the rear sight. I think you need a special tool just to make adjustments to the rear site. Avery other AR out there can be taken apart completely with about $50 worth of tools, and you can use the tip of a round, or a nail, to adjust the sights.

That reminds me of a company named Apple p-)

[muck]

Have you considered that the strong Euro may skyrocket the price of some products, too?
And in reverse, computers made by Dell or Chevrolets aren't exactly cheap either.

[theholeinthedonut]

Hey, nobodys saying that HK makes crappy firearms. Its just that they overprice everything and are total ****heads to their customers. And personally, I think that the rant at the beginning of this thread is funny as hell.

So are Kimbers.....as well as Colt and S&W......taking into consideration the cheap crap they dare to sell to people (that goes for Colt and S&W) ...as to the customer service all I can tell about it being crappy is stuff I read on the internet...but I also read on the internet that 9/11 was an inside job by the CIA and the Joos and Area 51 is a secret base run jointly by the Klingons and Scientology and that little, incredibly actor is the base commander.http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/theholeinthedonut/Divers/iconyeswq4.gif
My own experience, as a private customer, was quite positive. And I know that the USP, the SWAT team of our Police are very satisfied about their cooperation with Heckler und Koch.

[KoTeMoRe]

Have you considered that the strong Euro may skyrocket the price of some products, too?
And in reverse, computers made by Dell or Chevrolets aren't exactly cheap either.


Ah, products like? GPS screens from China?

Muck don't get me wrong the D10 I have is really half of the price it should cost. 40 000 eur, to get the same car and 4 full places you would have to pay at least 65/70 000 eur. But...the problem is really the freaking options man.

Same thing here, 500$ for a tool, haysoos.

Now I'm on my third car...Audi/Saab/BMW. p-) Guess why?

[James]

Hahaha look at Macs getting all nationalistic.

hahaha rofl

[muck]

Ah, products like? GPS screens from China?

Ever heard about protective taxes? p-)
Nope, I don't know what is the reason for these high prices, but maybe because you've bought it from a foreign subsidiary? I've never had similiar problems here.

hahaha rofl
Has Macs.-bashing become an official sport on these forums now?

[California Joe]

Has Macs.-bashing become an official sport on these forums now?

Who are you? His Mom? When I actually put Macs in one of his "ovens" you'll know he's been bashed. Asshead.

[Sabre]

Is someone holding a gun against your head pressuring you to buy German products or something?

Fair point, you lot haven't done that for at least, ooh sixty years or so...:)


Seriously though, having the rounds in backwards on your catalogue cover is pretty f***in poor!!! :lol:

Crazee germans....

[muck]

Who are you? His Mom? When I actually put Macs in one of his "ovens" you'll know he's been bashed. Asshead.
I'll pipe down from now on, you're the Mods, so do whatever you please.


Seriously though, having the rounds in backwards on your catalogue cover is pretty f***in poor!!! :lol:..
I didn't even notice that, and wouldn't have supposed that it worked either! :)

[Laworkerbee]

I'll pipe down from now on, you're the Mods, so do whatever you please.

Relax man, everyone is just having a bit of fun with him as he has done with us for years.

[muck]

Relax man, everyone is just having a bit of fun with him as he has done with us for years.
Wasn't aware of that sorry, I was just wondering what was going on lately.

[Indiana Jones]

Wasn't aware of that sorry, I was just wondering what was going on lately.
As far as taking the piss is concerned, Macs surely should be the last one to complain. Then again, he is one of the desperately few genuinely funny blokes on this board.


That said:
Much of the complaints commonly brought forward against H&K are plain bollocks. First off, as far as German arseholesp-) are concerned, the people most Amitrottel p-)here are dealing with are HK-USA, predominantly staffed with-yup, you guessed it-their compatriots. In Europe, even though their firearms are generally rabidly overpriced, complaints against H&Ks customer support are rarely heard of. There are a lot worse culprits in that regard, sometimes coming from your side of the pond. H&Ks very real reluctance with regards to the US civilian market has little to do with any arrogance or disregard for civilian shooters; H&K like most other company does not mind good business. However, US import legislations and in general the United States protectionist policies on firearms have seriously damaged H&K before, and illustrated that the US civilian market may be too instable and poses too much of a risk to seriously commit to. Hen &egg, and all that.

Secondly, H&K did not plant their drumsight on the 416 because they planned to rip off their customers, but because they had leftovers. The tool in question is btw only needed to make elevation adjustments, still a sore point, I concur. But anyways, as far as the 416 is concerned, the rifle is fully railed, and one can get it in basically any configuration one wants, or customize it later according to ones needs, including ARMS, Troy or whatever iron sights one prefers.

Thus endeth the rant.

[California Joe]

I'll pipe down from now on, you're the Mods, so do whatever you please.

Easy now. Macs and I are pals.

[Yarrick2]

Easy now. Macs and I are pals.
i just got this image of Macs and CJ arguing over where ovens or (car)trunks are the better place to dispose of hookers.

[theholeinthedonut]

i just got this image of Macs and CJ arguing over where ovens or (car)trunks are the better place to dispose of hookers.

They both know ****......nothing tops a "Dutch Dragon".

[Andreas]

Overpricing is one thing but many products/companys get away with it because of various strange mechanisms that make us humans buy stuff, anyone who has studied marketing theory will know what im talking about.

But poor customer service and arrogance doesent fly anywhere, it leads down a road that can turn your business to crap no matter how good your product is or how good your brandname is.

That being said, in my personal opinion I would gladly pay more for a piece of kit that my life will depend on. And I know from experiance that the Germanz tend to make things that work in the long run.

Cheers
Andreas

PS. When I read Macs post with perfect english and correct punctuation I cant help but read them with his creepy "gypsum- influenced-teamspeak-accent" in my head

[Vandervahn]

I never understood all the fuzz that is made about the HK policy on Civilians. It seems that none of those complainers has ANY idea of the diversity of the market. Part of a business plan is always the target group, which for HK is not the civilian with his little gun collection. I don´t get why this is so hard to swallow.

As an example, I´ve been to quite a few trade fairs in my line of business, and there is an abundance of companies offering huge product lines no single "civilian" (or in this case, non-professional customer) will ever see in a normal shop... although they could be used by said "civilians" perfectly well. Even my own company deals with business customers exclusively, although our products are regularly sought for by private customers. Sometimes we allow deals with private persons; nevertheless we´re clearly focused on a different piece of the customer cake, we pick the pearls and leave the small business to the small competitors.

Bottom line is: whenever I read some rant about HKs civilian customer position, I don´t actually read the written words; only the subtext which unanimously says "I WANT I WANT I WAAAAANT..."

[BlackOutDrunk]

In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards...

But it doesn't matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks... If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civillians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn't fit any accesories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn't it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don't need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we've fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don't believe us, it is because you aren't a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you're civillians, so we won't sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you'll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you'll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing Department"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

so many things wrong with this...


First off with all of your references to Navy SEALs and Special Operations units the reason they use HK products is because they create what the operators want. They build well designed weapons that are ultra-reliable and available in a variety of calibers and options. That is the reason why such weapons as the G36 and USP are used by them.

Secondly in regards to the HK416 it was created in collaboration with the US Delta Force as an improvement to the M4, this means HK was sought to help our military create a weapon. They didn't just say "Hey we are gonna create an improved M4 clone because that's the current trend." HK has a vast history of new designs and innovations to firearms technology
http://www.hkpro.com/contents.htm

The link provided displays some of their inventive weapons and technologies. Back to the HK416 it tested far better than the M4 yet for some odd reason the military feels the need to punish our soldiers with an inferior weapon.

And here is a link referencing how HK intends to sell the 416 to civilians... nice research on that one...

http://www.hkpro.com/hkpro416civilianannouncement.htm

HK never stated the XM8 was the world's best rifle, they simply created it as a contender when the United States Military was considering adopting a new rifle/carbine. It was developed again in collaboration to aid our military.

And yet again you mention Rainbow Six as a viable source of gun reference information, this totally discredits your information as that of "some video game fanboy with a loud mouth."

Now you make fun of a company for torture testing their weapons??? What argument are you trying to make here? Again these weapons are chose by the operators themselves because they work! Again your credibility goes down...

As far as the magazine release, i must reference the old quote "There is more than one way to skin a cat..." Just like the interior is different on a Chevy Malibu compared to Ford Taurus. Some people prefer one over the other, this does not make an inferior weapon.

The G3 and MP5 are world class weapons. The Mp5 is the definitive submachine gun. It is world renowned and has been around for approximately 45 years and is still the standard and is available and again in many varieties and calibers. Just like MP5 the G3 has also been around for almost 50 years and is durable, powerful, and reliable. The G3 served as the main battle rifle of Germany for over 40 years without issue.

Again you lose credibility when you mention "commie garbage" and stamped steel yet the AK47 is great because of it's durability partially what comes from its rugged construction! HK uses these materials for their famed ruggedness, why wouldn't they? Besides the AK47 design is stolen from the Stg44 designed by some of the forefathers of HK!

And just like German cars such as BMW and Mercedes the reason they are a bit more pricey is because of such fine construction and precision and in some cases more complexity. So one would expect these fine weapons to require a bit more maintenance.

There are many examples of HK weapons for sale today to civilians but they are limited and hence cost more, supply and demand, quality costs money.

Next time think before you spew your verbal diarrhea about such a respected company and their products.

[Laworkerbee]

BlackOutDrunk

Take a breath and have a drink man.

[Indiana Jones]

In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards...

But it doesn't matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks... If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civillians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn't fit any accesories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn't it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don't need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we've fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don't believe us, it is because you aren't a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you're civillians, so we won't sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you'll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you'll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing Department"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

so many things wrong with this...


First off with all of your references to Navy SEALs and Special Operations units the reason they use HK products is because they create what the operators want. They build well designed weapons that are ultra-reliable and available in a variety of calibers and options. That is the reason why such weapons as the G36 and USP are used by them.

Secondly in regards to the HK416 it was created in collaboration with the US Delta Force as an improvement to the M4, this means HK was sought to help our military create a weapon. They didn't just say "Hey we are gonna create an improved M4 clone because that's the current trend." HK has a vast history of new designs and innovations to firearms technology
http://www.hkpro.com/contents.htm

The link provided displays some of their inventive weapons and technologies. Back to the HK416 it tested far better than the M4 yet for some odd reason the military feels the need to punish our soldiers with an inferior weapon.

And here is a link referencing how HK intends to sell the 416 to civilians... nice research on that one...

http://www.hkpro.com/hkpro416civilianannouncement.htm

HK never stated the XM8 was the world's best rifle, they simply created it as a contender when the United States Military was considering adopting a new rifle/carbine. It was developed again in collaboration to aid our military.

And yet again you mention Rainbow Six as a viable source of gun reference information, this totally discredits your information as that of "some video game fanboy with a loud mouth."

Now you make fun of a company for torture testing their weapons??? What argument are you trying to make here? Again these weapons are chose by the operators themselves because they work! Again your credibility goes down...

As far as the magazine release, i must reference the old quote "There is more than one way to skin a cat..." Just like the interior is different on a Chevy Malibu compared to Ford Taurus. Some people prefer one over the other, this does not make an inferior weapon.

The G3 and MP5 are world class weapons. The Mp5 is the definitive submachine gun. It is world renowned and has been around for approximately 45 years and is still the standard and is available and again in many varieties and calibers. Just like MP5 the G3 has also been around for almost 50 years and is durable, powerful, and reliable. The G3 served as the main battle rifle of Germany for over 40 years without issue.

Again you lose credibility when you mention "commie garbage" and stamped steel yet the AK47 is great because of it's durability partially what comes from its rugged construction! HK uses these materials for their famed ruggedness, why wouldn't they? Besides the AK47 design is stolen from the Stg44 designed by some of the forefathers of HK!

And just like German cars such as BMW and Mercedes the reason they are a bit more pricey is because of such fine construction and precision and in some cases more complexity. So one would expect these fine weapons to require a bit more maintenance.

There are many examples of HK weapons for sale today to civilians but they are limited and hence cost more, supply and demand, quality costs money.

Next time think before you spew your verbal diarrhea about such a respected company and their products.
Lighten up Francis, while I agree with some of what you say no offence you come off like a H&K salesman. ;)
Couple of points. While the StG44 has indeed influenced the design philosophy of the AK47 (and in fact of all assault rifles) the latter is by no means a ripoff or a copy of the former in any way, shape or form.
The G3 indeed possesses all of the advantages you mentioned, however it also is h-e-a-v-y, especially with gadgets, and nothing less than an ergonomic nighmare, trust me on this.

[James]

Ok... I feel that is time to remind everyone that the original post WAS A F*CKING JOKE!!!

Please take the knotted panties out of your ass.

Have a good one.

[PvtPyle]

You can't joke with the fanboys. If you make negative comments about their one true love, they take it personally. Like they were the inventor or something. Personally, I think that's the sadest part of the whole thing.

We were working a booth around the corner from H&K at SHOT (like 30 feet away) and from time to time the "rant" would come up and someone would yell "Because you suck and we hate you!" The HK guys would get all lathered up. We even had a couple walk around looking to see who said it.

Next year, we will all be wearing buttons that say it so they can see who loves them.

[BlackOutDrunk]

I am glad to hear this is a joke I just dislike seeing people sully a company's good name and spread ignorance. I am by no mean a fanboy though I do appreciate many fine HK products.

As far as the G3 being heavy one would expect that of a classic battle rifle. The weight is similar to the M1 Garand so i can't understand why you would call this weapon heavy when considering it is a traditional battle rifle.

Please enlighten me as to how it is an ergonomic nightmare, i am generally curious and am open to opinions from people who have actually handled this weapon.

[LaoSexMachine]

I just dislike seeing people sully a company's good name and spread ignorance. I am by no mean a fanboy though


Riiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhttttttttt

[JoaMei]

I handled the G3 during my time and thought not bad about it, its a good Rifle.
The ergonomics are not inferior to other Weapons of that time.

[Indiana Jones]

I am glad to hear this is a joke I just dislike seeing people sully a company's good name and spread ignorance. I am by no mean a fanboy though I do appreciate many fine HK products.

As far as the G3 being heavy one would expect that of a classic battle rifle. The weight is similar to the M1 Garand so i can't understand why you would call this weapon heavy when considering it is a traditional battle rifle.

Please enlighten me as to how it is an ergonomic nightmare, i am generally curious and am open to opinions from people who have actually handled this weapon.
First off, in the standard configuration, the stock is simply too short, even for a medium-built person. If one takes ones head forward while shooting, especially in the ****e or standing position, ones cheekbone will come to rest on the "bump" between receiver and stock, and when firing, one will get a hearty slap that in a beginner might breed bad habits such as flinching. Of course this is but a minor point and can be adressed by either prolonging the stock or slightly altering training, but it still is a drawback, as it is counterintuitive and makes it difficult to assume a consistent cheekweld which of course is crucial to good markmanship. The position of the safety catch is not ideal. If one wants to put the rifle on-safe, one has to alter the grip position. The placement of the charging handle is awkward. The rifle does not have a bolt catch. The flapper mag release does not let the magazine fall free, one has to take it out while depressing the flapper. This unnecessarily prolongs any magazine change, which is a sore point anyway. There are some rather unorthodox methods to speed it up, sometimes involving the sling, but thats another topic. The trigger pull is very poor, even by military standards, way too heavy (45+ N) with considerable creep on top of it.

@JoaMei:
Darf ich fragen ob sie je mit dem Ar15 oder seinen Derivaten geschossen, oder auch mit dem Stgw90 ? Ich möchte das Licht des G3 gar nicht unter den Scheffel stellen, aber ergonomisch betrachtet haut es einen nun wirklich nicht vom Hocker. Es gab in dieser Beziehung da auch zu seiner Zeit mit dem FAL oder dem M14 zweifellos schon bessere Lösungen.

[JoaMei]

Nein, habe viele Repetierer geschossen und an militärische Selbstladern noch den Simonov SKS und ein AK-derivat.
Am G3 hat mich gestört dass das durchladen so LAUT ist, sonst ging es eigentlich.

[PvtPyle]

So, BOD, are we to gather from your last post that you have not actually shot many of the HK military weapons?

Do you actually have any Mil/LEO experience with firearms? If so, could you share with us so we better understand where you base of reference is coming from?

[California Joe]

Frankly, his opinion is ass after that long drawn out spamlike answer to a seriously obvious joke.

Probably gets his news from The Onion.

[KoTeMoRe]

Riiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhttttttttt

I hate BMW...

I prefer Alpina instead.

I'm no fanboy.

[BlackOutDrunk]

So, BOD, are we to gather from your last post that you have not actually shot many of the HK military weapons?

Do you actually have any Mil/LEO experience with firearms? If so, could you share with us so we better understand where you base of reference is coming from?

No, Honestly I have not shot many firearms in general much less HK weapons which as i mentioned are hard to find hence tough for civilians such as myself to shoot.

Most of my experience is vicarious, as to say word of mouth from what I consider reliable sources. Friends, some of whom are and some who aren't in the military who have handled HK and other brand weapons. I consider them unbiased as far as brands go because they have nothing to gain in either selling or distributing them.

I can see that this may seem "weak" to you guys but this is all i have to base my opinions on as far as my own limited shooting experience. That is why I mentioned before that i am open to the opinions of those who have actually handled these weapons and I appreciate your information and contributions.

BTW does anyone have any pictures of a G3 with the aforementioned gadgets? I noticed you said you dislike the location of the light do you perhaps of a picture of this? What did you like better about the FAL or the M14?

[KoTeMoRe]

No, Honestly I have not shot many firearms in general much less HK weapons which as i mentioned are hard to find hence tough for civilians such as myself to shoot.

Most of my experience is vicarious, as to say word of mouth from what I consider reliable sources. Friends, some of whom are and some who aren't in the military who have handled HK and other brand weapons. I consider them unbiased as far as brands go because they have nothing to gain in either selling or distributing them.

I can see that this may seem "weak" to you guys but this is all i have to base my opinions on as far as my own limited shooting experience. That is why I mentioned before that i am open to the opinions of those who have actually handled these weapons and I appreciate your information and contributions.

BTW does anyone have any pictures of a G3 with the aforementioned gadgets? I noticed you said you dislike the location of the light do you perhaps of a picture of this? What did you like better about the FAL or the M14?


Oh my he's still out there...

Fal is better any way.:roll:

[boy1000]

That's interesting. What happened? Did HK overcharge their weapons to them?

Chief Sorry I am a bit late here....

HK make wonderfull equipment without any doubt, but client manageent and service is not HK strongest points. Please look at Andreas reply also.

Here in Europe most of the Special Operations Forces is not that big around 100+ so when they contact HK in Germany they have a tendency to be a bit arrogant and refer to a small gunshop in the outback of the national country, who seems to have not the biggest understanding of the requirement of SOF units.

When all this is said it is some years ago these stories arised, so to the benefits of HK, I have NO clue how this is today, but the word from friends, it is to some extent the same.

[BlackOutDrunk]

Oh my he's still out there...

Fal is better any way.:roll:


Ahhh what?

[Hippo]

BlackOutDrunk, you are way out of your league right now

Twas a joke, and nothing more

[BlackOutDrunk]

I was just asking for clarification, forgive me asking...

[Pook2]

I don't know much, but some sort of brass deflector on all their MP5 models would be nice. I'm a lefty, and every MP5 I've used sprayed powder right into my eyes and nose.