What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?

[Afro-European]

-What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?
-What's the max. effective range of a 5.56mm?
http://images.military.com/EQGpics/EQG_sa556_1.jpg

[khukuri]

Depends on the bullet and pipe. The cheap normal ammo we had was up to 400 with a typical assault rifle we were told.

[Afro-European]

Depends on the bullet and pipe. The cheap normal ammo we had was up to 400 with a typical assault rifle we were told.

Thanx for the reply.A friend of mine(in the Dutch military)said to have hit targets from 800m with the M16A2.And I've heard stories of guys hitting from 1000m before.400m I think is a good call for the effective range.

[Jarhead]

Depends on the bullet and pipe. The cheap normal ammo we had was up to 400 with a typical assault rifle we were told.
nothing more to say
Max range of G 36 2.860 m
Effective range 500 m

[khukuri]

Yeah I remember seeing a vid here on mp.net with a contractor who claimed he was shooting at targets 6-800 m away with what looked like an spr. There was a big discussion on different types of 5.56 ammo, search for that thread and you will find...

[RSone]

The Landmacht(Dutch Royal Army) doesn't use m16's they use the Diemaco C7/C8( in it's various incarnations). AFAIK the diemaco has a heavier barrel, which probably increases the accuracy, although I doubt you can actually "hit" a target at 800 meters, let alone in a upright firing position, or with the C8(C8a1GD for SF GD standing for geluidsdemper=suprresor)Are you sure he wasn't talking about the SR-25? It looks a lot like a M16 to the untrained eye.

[CantGetRight]

for the M16-A2 the max effective range for a point target is 550m, area 800m and max range is 3600m

[junglejim]

The Philippine Marine Scout Sniper Rifle is mentioned to have an effective range of 800 meters. It uses 5.56 ammo.

The first-generation MSSR used either factory 5.56mm NATO 62-grain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28mass%29)SS109 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS109) ball ammunition or 69-grain Federal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Cartridge) Match Gold Medal boattail hollowpoint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet) (BTHP) cartridges. The second-generation rifle may use these rounds as well as the HSM 69-grain BTHP cartridge. The third-generation MSSR uses 5.56mm 69-grain Hornady BTHP Match or 75-grain Hornady TAP BTHP Match ammunition handloaded at the Marine Scout Sniper School. -www.navy.mil.ph

[James]

for the M16-A2 the max effective range for a point target is 550m, area 800m and max range is 3600m

And we've got a winner!

[Commander Shepard]

Service Rifle competitors routinely shoot an accurized version of the M16A2/A4 with match ammunition at 1000yds.

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5179

This would be one example of a match service rifle:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/punma2.gif

[Dragonscript]

-What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?
-What's the max. effective range of a 5.56mm?
http://images.military.com/EQGpics/EQG_sa556_1.jpg

The left round is the M193, which is not produced anymore but old stocks are still used, and the right is the M855, which is the current standard issue. While they look the same, they are different and have slightly different ranges. And just because you can hit something at 550 meters doesn't mean it will penetrate.

[benbach]

shoot at a 45 degree angle...

[Commander Shepard]

The left round is the M193

Actually the one on the left is most definitely not M193 or any 5.56mm cartridge for that matter. To me it looks like 6.8mm SPC.


And just because you can hit something at 550 meters doesn't mean it will penetrate.Surplus M855 is still supersonic at 550m out of my 16" barrel AR15 carbine.

[James]

Actually the one on the left is most definitely not M193 or any 5.56mm cartridge for that matter. To me it looks like 6.8mm SPC.

Good eye...

[orionhawk]

Actually the one on the left is most definitely not M193 or any 5.56mm cartridge for that matter. To me it looks like 6.8mm SPC.

Surplus M855 is still supersonic at 550m out of my 16" barrel AR15 carbine.
it is 6.8. I recognize the pic, although I don't remember where I saw it.
as far as long-range penetration, I know varmint shooters still make prairie dogs explode at 1000yd+ with .223 bolt-actions.

[Commander Shepard]

I know varmint shooters still make prarie dogs explode at 1000yd+ with .223 bolt-actions.

Given the size of a prairie dog, that would be an incredibly lucky shot. I don't know anyone who can consistently hold 1MOA with a 223 rifle at 1000yds, and that equates to a 10" circle.

The thing that gets you with that light of a round is the wind.

[CantGetRight]

prepare to know this stuff if you ever hope of becoming a NCO

[orionhawk]

Given the size of a prairie dog, that would be an incredibly lucky shot. I don't know anyone who can consistently hold 1MOA with a 223 rifle at 1000yds, and that equates to a 10" circle.
10" would be about right for prairie dogs, though. and I'm thinking of those guys with $3000 rifles, that clean them after every shot, and only shoot their own special super-whamodyne handloads.

[Dragonscript]

Actually the one on the left is most definitely not M193 or any 5.56mm cartridge for that matter. To me it looks like 6.8mm SPC.

Surplus M855 is still supersonic at 550m out of my 16" barrel AR15 carbine.

meh, i was just looking at the tip, nothing more. No color/copper is a M193.

[Commander Shepard]

maybe I'm wrong. 10" would be about right for prairie dogs, though. and I'm thinking of those guys with $3000 rifles, that clean them after every shot, and only shoot their own special super-whamodyne handloads.

A prairie dog can grow over 10" in height but what you're presented with is a somewhat elongated and thin target. So the surface area is going to be a lot less than a 10" circle.

Even a custom built bolt gun with handloads that shoots 0.5" groups at 100yds won't help you compensate for wind. Its just not realistic to expect to hold 1MOA at 1000yds with a 223 rifle, for 99.99% of shooters out there. And even if you could, it wouldn't be enough since a prairie dog presents a much smaller target.


No color/copper is a M193.

Or any number of other non colored 5.56mm loads available commercially. ;)

[orionhawk]

"competitors have proven to be entirely adequate for shooting out to 600 yards--a few more are using them successfully at 1000 yards. That's as far away as I intend to shoot at anything with any rifle in .223 Remington"
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/st223_120606/index2.html

[Blackwater11114]

A prairie dog can grow over 10" in height but what you're presented with is a somewhat elongated and thin target. So the surface area is going to be a lot less than a 10" circle.

Even a custom built bolt gun with handloads that shoots 0.5" groups at 100yds won't help you compensate for wind. Its just not realistic to expect to hold 1MOA at 1000yds with a 223 rifle, for 99.99% of shooters out there. And even if you could, it wouldn't be enough since a prairie dog presents a much smaller target.



Or any number of other non colored 5.56mm loads available commercially. ;)


I bought my 223 in Fort Collins CO just to shoot prairie dogs at a 1000 yards.
And you can hit them....
The ranchers in Walden will actually pay for your ammo and beer and put you up for the night in a bunkhouse just to come and shoot these critters.
They hate to see very expensive livestock put down due to the fact that they have stepped into a prairie dog burrow and broke a leg.
I have some very interesting first hand stories about this topic.

[Steve Andrews]

Wind is a major factor, but with a British LSW firing the standard RG ammunition, it is possible to consistently hit a man-sized target at 600m.

[Commander Shepard]

I bought my 223 in Fort Collins CO just to shoot prairie dogs at a 1000 yards.
And you can hit them....

Well, I am sure you'd hit one provided that you fire enough rounds.

[maw]

i know of a documented kill by a nsw sniper at just over 900 yards using a mk12/spr (18" bbl) shooting 77 grain ammo.

afaik, the 1000 yard record is just over 3" shooting if i recall a 6.5-.284

[SMGLee]

10" would be about right for prairie dogs, though. and I'm thinking of those guys with $3000 rifles, that clean them after every shot, and only shoot their own special super-whamodyne handloads.

that would still be a very lucky shot or a very good shot......

most of the vermint shooter don't use 223 for long range shot anyhow....22-250 or similiar cartridge that is moving fast and shoot flat.

I had a chance to shoot vermint in Central California, the milk cow would get stuck in the hole dig by the vermints, so the farmer love for us to drop by and set up a shoot. the longest shot was no more then 200.

[California Joe]

most of the vermint shooter don't use 223 for long range shot anyhow....22-250 or similiar cartridge that is moving fast and shoot flat.

Yep, that was my understanding as well...

[rgjbloke]

I'm not familiar with the 5.56 but, in the British Army in the seventies, we were trained to shoot up to 600 metres with the 7.62 fired from an SLR. When we were issued with suit sights, the two settings on them were set for 100 and 300 metres. You could still shoot at 600 metres but you had to adjust your shooting point through the sight.

[Solomin]

It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats at 1000 yards with my T-16A2 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

[hank]

It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats at 1000 yards with my T-16A2 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

I'm going to cut off your arm with my lightsaber if I see you. I really will.

hank

[Solomin]

I'm going to cut off your arm with my lightsaber if I see you. I really will.

hank

I don't like you, my friend doesn't like you either...

Ok, no more quotes.

[Afro-European]

The Landmacht(Dutch Royal Army) doesn't use m16's they use the Diemaco C7/C8( in it's various incarnations). AFAIK the diemaco has a heavier barrel, which probably increases the accuracy, although I doubt you can actually "hit" a target at 800 meters, let alone in a upright firing position, or with the C8(C8a1GD for SF GD standing for geluidsdemper=suprresor)Are you sure he wasn't talking about the SR-25? It looks a lot like a M16 to the untrained eye.

No RSone,i m not talking about the SR-25.Maybe he used that m16 when his unit was sent abroad(where he may even come in contact with soldiers from other countries).

[StukaJr]

10" would be about right for prairie dogs, though. and I'm thinking of those guys with $3000 rifles, that clean them after every shot, and only shoot their own special super-whamodyne handloads.

.223 hand loaded for bolt action rifles is at a lot higher chamber pressures that wouldn't be safe in a semi-auto .223, even hotter than 5.56. So when discussing range of 5.56 - it's a moot point to bring up handloads for bolt action .223. Handloaders also have other tricks to improve accuracy - fire forming the brass, setting OAL hair close to grooves of the barrel throat - none of the things that can be done in semi-auto .223/5.56

I can understand hitting varmint at 1000 yards with .223 but I'd be very sceptical if that varmint "exploded" - a regular varmint .224 diameter bullet (40-55grains) will not travel out to 1000 yards and the heavy enough bullet to remain accurate at 1000 yards will not travel fast enough to explode varmint...

Cleaning the bore after every few shots is often misinterpreted - hunters do it to shoot on "cold" barrel as they don't expect to have an opportunity to zero-in. I've seen way to many people actually clean their barrel like they would after shooting, so whenever they start up again - the lubed bore walks their impact top right and gives them scatter gun MOA...

[Geezah]

Yeah I remember seeing a vid here on mp.net with a contractor who claimed he was shooting at targets 6-800 m away with what looked like an spr. There was a big discussion on different types of 5.56 ammo, search for that thread and you will find...

I think the guys forum name is SimplyDynamic on Arfcom and he was making hits out to 600yrds if I recall correctly.
He also works/worked for Blackwater.

If I'm wrong I stand corrected.

[maw]

I think the guys forum name is SimplyDynamic on Arfcom and he was making hits out to 600yrds if I recall correctly.
He also works/worked for Blackwater.

If I'm wrong I stand corrected.

don't want to sound pompous but 600 isn't that big of a deal. even with a 14.5" m4gery i can hit a standard b24 target (12"x20") and score solid hits all day, all i need is good ammo, my acog and relatively compliant wind (fwiw, this is @ 880 ft above sea level). the added velocity a longer barrel affords the shooter a big difference, i can't remember the exact numbers but beyond about a 18"-20" barrel length you're approaching the point of diminishing returns.

[AlphaOneSix]

don't want to sound pompous but 600 isn't that big of a deal.


Agreed. I'm not a great shot, but I consider myself "decent", and I can consistently hit a silhouette target at 600 yards with an M16A2 with just iron sights. Okay, by "consistently" I actually mean about 80%, but like I said, I'm not a great shot, just decent. ;)

[LRPV]

-What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?
-What's the max. effective range of a 5.56mm?
http://images.military.com/EQGpics/EQG_sa556_1.jpg


The Full-bore association (civilian marksmanship) shoots 5.56mm out to 1000 yards with open sights.

[GazB]

-What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?
-What's the max. effective range of a 5.56mm?


Max range is about 3.6kms

Effective range for an older rifle (ie M16A1) is about 400m and perhaps slightly further for a newer rifle like the SA80 and for LMG like minimi ir LSW is maybe 600m.

Note hitting a target at 800m is one thing but at that range it is not going to penetrate any type of vest, and it will be a subsonic 60 grain slug... similar to a .22lr in terminal effect... which can kill but is not considered effective against humans.


Service Rifle competitors routinely shoot an accurized version of the M16A2/A4 with match ammunition at 1000yds.

Yeah, but killing paper is not the same as killing live things. At 10m my cheap 600fps .177 cal air rifle can punch holes in paper but at no range will it kill anyone.


shoot at a 45 degree angle...

If you mean shoot down then that doesn't help as much as you might think. Terminal velocity is the fastest any object can go without propulsion through the air. The terminal velocity for rifle calibre bullets is subsonic so whether fired horizontally or vertically down a cliff face the bullet will start to slow down the instant it leaves the barrel due to drag.


No RSone,i m not talking about the SR-25.Maybe he used that m16 when his unit was sent abroad(where he may even come in contact with soldiers from other countries).

When talking about max range and effective range there are always going to be exceptions. I am sure that there are a lot of guys and even girls that can shoot 223 or 308 better than I and can get consistent accuracy at longer ranges than the majority with many calibres... but killing men with vests on requires not just accuracy, but also bullet energy and while it might be good on varmints if you are talking about effective range of a military cartridge on a military forum I assume unless you state otherwise you mean against human targets. At close range a high velocity bullet into your elbow can break you arm and cause lots of damage... at 800m it is going to punch a neat little 22 cal hole that does rather less damage.


The Full-bore association (civilian marksmanship) shoots 5.56mm out to 1000 yards with open sights.

Which proves it has the accuracy to be effective at 1000 yards in the hands of a select few competition marksmen. Giving an average effective range to kill enemy or a specific animal means we need to know the target type so we can determine a minimum level of energy the bullet will need on impact to kill effectively.... or if the target is paper then it just comes down to accuracy.

[Solomin]

If you mean shoot down then that doesn't help as much as you might think. Terminal velocity is the fastest any object can go without propulsion through the air. The terminal velocity for rifle calibre bullets is subsonic so whether fired horizontally or vertically down a cliff face the bullet will start to slow down the instant it leaves the barrel due to drag.


I think he meant shoot 45 degrees above the horizontal as a joke. When calculating projectile motion (neglecting air resistance and the difference in mussel velocity at different angles from gravity) a 45 degree angle given the same initial velocity, in this case mussel velocity, will yield the greatest distance traveled.

[Pook2]

don't want to sound pompous but 600 isn't that big of a deal. even with a 14.5" m4gery i can hit a standard b24 target (12"x20") and score solid hits all day, all i need is good ammo, my acog and relatively compliant wind (fwiw, this is @ 880 ft above sea level). the added velocity a longer barrel affords the shooter a big difference, i can't remember the exact numbers but beyond about a 18"-20" barrel length you're approaching the point of diminishing returns.

He was shooting people, not paper.

[maw]

He was shooting people, not paper.

i understand. i'm not diminishing his accomplishments. but we're talking about is ballistic range, the title of this thread after all is "What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?" and several posters have indicated that 400-600 is the limit, i'm merely pointed out that hitting targets @ 600 is consistently achievable (need the right barrel, the right ammo and optics would be a plus) and that there are documented kills out as far as 900 plus yards.

[juju]

Hitting targets out to 1000 yards is not impossible with a 223.
You just have to use the propper weight. 55 grains is light, 75/77 grains is a viable option but not the best.A heavier caliber is better.
But hitting effectively at long range is another matter.
Average spread of the M855 ammo in a 20 inches M16A2 is much wider than a human target at 800 meters.
Average spread of the MK 262 Mod0 or Mod1 in a SPR rifle is about the size of a human chest at the same distance.
I'd say that effective range of a 223 rounds would be limited to 400/500 meters out of an M4 and pushed to 600 meters with a 20 inches M16A2/3/4.
But the effective lethality of the issue rounds is way under that, especially out of short barreled rifles.

[benbach]

I think he meant shoot 45 degrees above the horizontal as a joke. When calculating projectile motion (neglecting air resistance and the difference in mussel velocity at different angles from gravity) a 45 degree angle given the same initial velocity, in this case mussel velocity, will yield the greatest distance traveled.

hahahahaha good to see someone got it.

[Corrupt]

Well on the ranges at Catterick a common warning as to why no rounds should clear the sand bank is that they will start landing in Richmond about 3K away so about 3600 metres is the max they will go.
Maximum effective range.
Well with the Cadet GP (Sa80 operated by a straight pull back bolt) me and one other cadet (ie the two 18 year old senior ones) can consistently hit Fig 11 Targets at 600 metres (8/9 out of 10 round groupings on the guy) using iron sights with no time pressure on a nice day.
Windy day the same things can be acheived still with the LSW and SUSATs. So I'd day maximum effective range for shooting people about 6-700 metres for most rifles/riflemen.

[Dune Driver]

Hi Guys the M16A2 is good to at least 600 yards with 5.556 Mk262 mod 1 Ammo this is much more accurate than the standard 5.56 M855 ball (Green tip). 26 inch group @ 600 yards with M855 and 8 inch group with the M262 stuff. Penetration of the Mk262 mod 1 is not as good as the M855 but the accuracy makes up for it. I think it uses the Sierra match king 77 grain bullet, it is loaded very hot so I understand. For long rang try the Mk262 round through the Tikka T 3 Tactical. For me I would still prefer the 7.62 Nato (308 Win) round or better still the 300 WSM. (Same caliber as the 308 just measured a different way!) To answer the question not much good past 1000 yards.
Cheers

[Masai]

-What's the max. range of a 5.56mm?
-What's the max. effective range of a 5.56mm?]
further that you can shoot accurately.


rest.

[Blackwater11114]

Max range is about 3.6kms

Effective range for an older rifle (ie M16A1) is about 400m and perhaps slightly further for a newer rifle like the SA80 and for LMG like minimi ir LSW is maybe 600m.

Note hitting a target at 800m is one thing but at that range it is not going to penetrate any type of vest, and it will be a subsonic 60 grain slug... similar to a .22lr in terminal effect... which can kill but is not considered effective against humans.



Yeah, but killing paper is not the same as killing live things. At 10m my cheap 600fps .177 cal air rifle can punch holes in paper but at no range will it kill anyone.



If you mean shoot down then that doesn't help as much as you might think. Terminal velocity is the fastest any object can go without propulsion through the air. The terminal velocity for rifle calibre bullets is subsonic so whether fired horizontally or vertically down a cliff face the bullet will start to slow down the instant it leaves the barrel due to drag.



When talking about max range and effective range there are always going to be exceptions. I am sure that there are a lot of guys and even girls that can shoot 223 or 308 better than I and can get consistent accuracy at longer ranges than the majority with many calibres... but killing men with vests on requires not just accuracy, but also bullet energy and while it might be good on varmints if you are talking about effective range of a military cartridge on a military forum I assume unless you state otherwise you mean against human targets. At close range a high velocity bullet into your elbow can break you arm and cause lots of damage... at 800m it is going to punch a neat little 22 cal hole that does rather less damage.



Which proves it has the accuracy to be effective at 1000 yards in the hands of a select few competition marksmen. Giving an average effective range to kill enemy or a specific animal means we need to know the target type so we can determine a minimum level of energy the bullet will need on impact to kill effectively.... or if the target is paper then it just comes down to accuracy.

From what i shot through the 223's i have now crosswind is the main issue. Even a little bit down wind at 4-6 hundred yards can blow a good shot by up to 12 inches. shooting little slugs a long way is all about the environment....... beers excluded.
Not trying to blow smoke here..... just from experience....
Try here first http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45758

[martinexsquaddie]

on a windless day can put all the rounds from an Lsw on a fig 11 at 900metres
could hit the huns head at 600 metres
would'nt want to try to catch 5.56 rounds even from an m4 at 1k:(

[Dune Driver]

The sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturers Institute SAAMA say don't shoot 5.56 mil spec ammo in .223 chambers as there is a slight difference. I do believe but am not sure that this does not apply the other way round so a bolt action sniper rifle chambered for 5.56 mm can shoot .223 civilian ammo! Any one any ideas on this. This is on page 66 of Sept 2008 SWAT magazine.

[Blackwater11114]

The sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturers Institute SAAMA say don't shoot 5.56 mil spec ammo in .223 chambers as there is a slight difference. I do believe but am not sure that this does not apply the other way round so a bolt action sniper rifle chambered for 5.56 mm can shoot .223 civilian ammo! Any one any ideas on this. This is on page 66 of Sept 2008 SWAT magazine.

I handload all of my rounds for the 5.56's but on the 308's i use a mix of everything.
This https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=2176cc8e619a5953baf05469d28df8db&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=2c8db0989ea115bf26c7df25a7e700b6 is what im currently using on the 223's.

Sidenote........ one night after a few brewskies on the plains i shot 2 loads of tracers that i had taken out of links of a m60 belt through a brand new 700 BDL - 308 ---- not recommended.........and probably the dumbest thing ( or one of the dumbest) i've ever done.

[Dune Driver]

Apart from tracer at least mil spec 7.62 is ok in regular 308s! I fired some WW11 vintage tracer for fun through my 303 No4 but I made sure I cleaned it straight afterwards as it is very corosive.

[Dune Driver]

Can anyone confirm that civilian .223 is ok in the mil 5.56 chamber?

[Hollis]

Can anyone confirm that civilian .223 is ok in the mil 5.56 chamber?


Can you follow up on your own threads,

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142274


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