Hungarian minority in Romania wants its "independance" too

[Afro-European]

SFANTU GHEORGHE, Romania (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/romania/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) — Dozens of wreaths trailing ribbons in red, white and green, the colors of the Hungarian flag, covered the base of a memorial to the 1848 revolution in the town park here on a recent day. Deep in the heart of Romania, just one lonely garland bears the country’s own blue, yellow and red banner.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/07/world/07hungary.1902.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:pop_me_up2('http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/04/07/world/07hungariansCA02ready.html', '07hungariansCA02ready', 'width=720,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes'))
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/07/world/20080407_HUNGARIANS_MAP.jpg Hungarians in central Romania want regional autonomy.
New Year’s is celebrated twice here, first at the stroke of midnight and then an hour later, when it is midnight in Budapest. When Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia in February, hundreds of the town’s Hungarians took to the main square to demonstrate in favor of Kosovo, and by extension their own aspirations for autonomy.
A Hungarian minority group is pressing for greater autonomy in a region where its members outnumber Romanians. A new and more radical organization, the Hungarian Civic Party, has risen to challenge the establishment Hungarian party, which has been a member of each coalition government since 1996.
Those who argue that independence for Kosovo has set a bad precedent tend to talk about frozen conflicts outside the European Union— Abkhazia and South Ossetia, in Georgia, and Transnistria in Moldova. But even in the European Union, borders are often arbitrary. Many ethnic minorities, like the Basques and the Roma, remain stateless while others, like the Hungarians in Romania, as well as in Slovakia and Serbia, are still separated from their brethren.
The Hungarian minority here, known as Szeklers, certainly believe their time for independence has arrived and that their proposed semi-autonomous state, Szeklerland, is an impending reality.
“Kosovo is an example, and a very clear one, that if the community wants to live under self-government, we have to declare very loudly our will,” said Csaba Ferencz, vice president of the Szekler National Council, a local Hungarian group founded in 2003 with autonomy as its stated goal. Szeklers are a distinct ethnic group from the Magyars, Hungary’s dominant population.
Their chances of success appear slim, but they are pressing ahead to the chagrin of Romanians here, who say that as a local minority they have fewer rights than Hungarians do as a nationwide minority.
The Hungarian region, comprising part of Mures County and all of Harghita and Covasna, where Sfantu Gheorghe is the capital, was once a border area of the Hungarian kingdom defended by the Szeklers. After World War I, the Szeklers found themselves smack in the middle of Romania, a few hours drive north through the Carpathian Mountains from Bucharest.
The conclusion of the war is best remembered for the harsh terms imposed on Germany. But the peace agreement signed by Hungary in 1920, the Treaty of Trianon, was arguably even tougher. Hungary lost roughly two-thirds of its territory and population, including one-third of its Hungarian speakers, in the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, a loss that to this day is known as the Trianon trauma. (Hungary regained most of its lost territories temporarily during World War II.)
Nowhere is the Hungarian minority larger or more vocal in its demands for greater independence than in Romania. Hungarians make up 1.5 million of Romania’s 22 million people, about half of them Szeklers. Little wonder that Romania, a member of the European Union and the host of the just-completed NATO summit meeting, joined Slovakia, Serbia and Russia in refusing to recognize Kosovo.
Unlike the Kosovars, the Szeklers are asking for autonomy within Romania rather than complete independence, leaving foreign policy and national defense in the hands of the government in Bucharest. Szeklerland would be nearly 4,000 square miles, with just over 800,000 people, three-quarters of them Hungarian.
The headquarters of the Szekler National Council sits in a large tan stucco house, a short walk from the center of town. Out front hang both the European Union flag and that of the Szeklers, a blue field with a horizontal gold stripe across the middle and a gold sun and silver star on either side. The house was previously the home of a lawyer dedicated to the cause of Hungarian self-rule.
The council shares its headquarters with the newly minted Hungarian Civic Party, which was approved in March to take part in elections, as an alternative to the mainstream Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania. The Democratic Union stands accused, by Romanians in particular, of old-fashioned ethnic machine politics. But their Civic Party opponents accuse them of selling out.
“Since 1996 they are in the government and we think once they were, they represented the interests of the Romanian majority and not the Hungarian minority,” said Zoltan Gazda, president of the Sfantu Gheorghe branch of the new party.
“We have always respected the Romanian laws in our fight for autonomy, but if this does not have a good ending it may raise up other kinds of tensions,” Mr. Gazda said. “We have signals that the discontent can increase with conflicts.”
Municipal elections on June 1 will be a test of strength between the two Hungarian parties before parliamentary elections later in the year. They are likely to work out an arrangement to ensure that they do not split the vote in the national race.
Under Communism, the dictator Nicolae Ceausescu tried to dilute the Hungarian populations by moving Romanians into areas where they were concentrated, particularly along the border with Hungary.
Romanians here say the government in Bucharest has subordinated their interests in exchange for Hungarian parliamentary votes. For example, said Rodica Parvan, a Romanian member of the town council, the national government does nothing while subsidies to churches and schools, which are largely segregated, are distributed unequally by the Hungarian-dominated local government.
However, most of the complaints by the Romanian residents are over symbolic snubs, such as the council meetings held only in Hungarian and Hungarian-language carols played at Christmastime. On March 15, the Hungarian national holiday marking the beginning of the 1848 revolution against Hapsburg rule, Ms. Parvan was dismayed to see the Romanian flag in front of the county government seat hanging at half-mast.
“They told me the wind blew it down,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/world/europe/07hungarians.html?ref=world

[Invisigoth]

Simple solution: Move to Hungary.

[KoTeMoRe]

Simple solution: Move to Hungary.

Not so simple since the 17th february 2008.

Welcome to the NWO.p-)

[Invisigoth]

That's what people want to believe. Let's see what's really gonna change in the med- to long-term. ;)

[KoTeMoRe]

Nothing. Really.

[Fullaut0]

Simple solution: Move to Hungary.


Ha ha. You see bumper stickers here that read "if you don't love it, leave it."

Seriously, I don't think Romania is on the 'punishment' list for their treatment of Hungarian minorities so any wide autonomy is unlikely to happen let alone independence.

[Afro-European]

Simple solution: Move to Hungary.

Why didn't Kosovars move to Albanians?

[Fullaut0]

Why didn't Kosovars move to Albanians?

They don't wanna.

The locals probably look down on em. Not 'real' Albanians anymore.

They got it better in Kosovo anyway from an economic point of view. They got western support too.

They got jack and sh*t in Albania and jack just left.

Hungarian minority in Romania is a totally different story other than the fact that they are probably likely to be discriminated against by Hungarians in Hungary.

Its an interesting question. I understand that, economically, Hungary is in a stronger position than Romania. I'm also assuming that the EU is not interested in the break up of member states.

So why is the question? Looks like they are seeking some degree of autonomy not independence.

At any rate, this looks like sh*t stirring and nothing more.

[FlankerFlyer]

They siding Kosovo as example. Well aren't we told Kosovo is a unique case? Huh? Oh my,without international law to guide us, there is just one “Unique Case” After Another.Some taugh wisely warned,independence will set a dangerous precedent, encouraging other ethnic minorities to follow the example of the Albanians and demand secession and an independent State. The United States and EU has dismissed such concerns by flatly asserting that Kosovo is "unique". Well yes, Kosovo is a unique case, and is the only one recognized by the United States until the next "unique case" comes along. When legal criteria have been thrown out, we just have one "unique case" after another.

“The "uniqueness" claimed by the United States is a propaganda construction. It is based on the supposed "uniqueness" of Milosevic's repression of the armed secessionist movement, which was not unique at all. It was standard operating procedure throughout history and the world over, in such circumstances. Deplorable, no doubt, but not unique. It was minor indeed compared to the similar but endless and far bloodier anti-insurgency operations in Colombia, Sri Lanka, and Chechnya, not to mention Northern Ireland, Thailand, the Philippines. And unlike the counter-insurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which kill incomparably more civilians, it was carried out by the legal, democratically elected government of the country, rather than by a foreign power.

Basque Separatists: Kosovo Example to Follow

Though Spain has expressly said it will not recognize southern Serbian province as an independent state, because the "unilateral act" by the Pristina Albanians "is in contravention to the international law", the Basque separatist government welcomed the declaration from Pristina as a "new example of the right of self-determination" and a "lesson to be learned from," and even criticized Spain "for not granting formal recognition."
"It's a lesson to be followed when it comes to peaceful and democratic solutions of the identity and allegiance problems", a regional government spokeswoman told reporters in San Sebastian.
"It shows that respect of the citizens' will is the key to solving difficult political problems," she added.
In other words, the Basque separatists have just been given a master key to perverting democracy and dropping it on its ear, by turning a national minority into a regional majority, so whichever building, village and town you can find with majority of "us" verses "them" — play the "local majority" card, go for it and tear the state up.



Corsican Separatists "Delighted" Over Kosovo Amputation

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/karikature/waco-sarko.jpg

When the French Nicolas Sarkozy visited a school in Perigueux, France, two days before the illegal declaration by the Albanian Pristina separatists, he pointed (http://uk.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1538334820080215) to the map of Europe on a classroom wall which showed Kosovo and Metohija province as part of Serbia, and told schoolchildren they'll have to change their map to show Serbian province as a separate state.
No doubt he was pleased to discover that, four days later, the Independent Corsican Nation (CNI) welcomed with "delight" unilateral declaration of independence by Pristina separatists. At least the evil little gnome Sarkozy has one thing in common with the nation that wants to dismember the state he's presiding over: they are equally delighted over dismemberment of Serbia, although for entirely different reasons.
According to the French media, the Independent Corsican Nation saluted amputated Kosovo province and the "brotherly Kosovo people", which kinda goes to show how much do they know when they think there is such a thing as "Kosovo nation". But the ignorance knows no bounds:
"Our movement is aware of the courageous struggle that you and the Kosovo people have fought to overthrow the sham sovereignty that Belgrade wanted to impose with the rump status of autonomy which did not offer a single basic guarantee to your people," CNI told the war-criminal-turned-prime-minister Hashim Thaci in a letter.
CNI said that they hope that a delegation of the provisional Kosovo government would shortly take part in the so-called International Days, an annual event held each August in Corsica, dedicated to the celebration of Corsican nationalism and rallying European separatists from the Basque country and Catalonia in Spain, the French Bretagne, Sardinia and Sicily, Tyrol and other separatist regions in Europe.
Hopefully, their unrecognized president Sarkozy will be equally gracious in helping schoolchildren in France get used to the new look of French map.

After Kosovo, It Would be Kashmir”

Number of separatist regions outside the Europe are equally thrilled with Kosovo amputation from Serbia and, contrary to laughable US and British claims, see absolutely nothing "unique" about the Serbian province.
The representatives of a long disputed separatist region of Kashmir in India have too rushed to draw parallels between their situation and that of Albanian minority in Serbia, pointing to Serbian Kosovo province as an example they should follow:
“It is a moment of delight for Muslims all over the world,” veteran Kashmir's secessionist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani told the media (http://www.etalaat.net/english/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=323:after-kosovo-it-would-be-kashmir&catid=57:news-scan&Itemid=85) from New Delhi, adding that “the creation of a Muslim state within the European Union has strengthened the resolve of the people of Kashmir to achieve their right to self- determination.”
“The day is not far away,” Geelani said, “when the people of Kashmir will announce their Independence from imperial India.”
Kashmiri senior leader Hurriyat Conference (M) Shabir Shah said, “Independence of Kosovo should serve as an eye-opener to those who say that (Kashmir’s) Accession with India is final and rule out the creation of an independent Kashmir.”
“Such people and parties should stop serving the interests of their masters for petty interests and join hands with us towards the formation of an independent Kashmir as the day is not far away when the people of Kashmir will announce their independence as done by the people of Kosovo,” Shabir Shah said.

“If Kosovo Can Be Free, Why Not Palestine?”

And while the state of Israel allows itself to mull over and weigh and think about whether to join in issue its own recognition to the shameless seizure of Serbia's territory, even the more unpleasant parallels are being drawn and, however painful, expected to grow much louder the moment Israel would accept the monstrous Western creation in Serbia.

John Whitbeck's article titled "If Kosovo Can be Free, Why Not Palestine? (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=106933&d=19&m=2&y=2008)", published on February 19 in the Arab News, has received significant attention in the Muslim world. Viewing unilaterally declared independence of the Albanian minority for severing part of Serbia's territory as destabilizing and worrisome, Whitebeck argues that this act of lawlessness might have "one potentially constructive consequence", that of "Palestinian independence".
“[...] The American and EU impatience to sever a portion of a UN member state (universally recognized, even by them, to constitute a portion of that state's sovereign territory), ostensibly because 90 percent of those living in that portion of the state's territory support separation, contrasts starkly with the unlimited patience of the US and the EU when it comes to ending the 40-year-long belligerent occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (no portion of which any country recognizes as Israel's sovereign territory and as to which Israel has only even asserted sovereignty over a tiny portion, occupied East Jerusalem). Virtually every legal resident of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip seeks freedom - and has for over 40 years. For doing so, they are punished, sanctioned, besieged, humiliated and, day after endless day, killed by those who claim to stand on the moral high ground.
“In American and EU eyes, a Kosovar declaration of independence from Serbian sovereignty should be recognized even if Serbia does not agree. However, their attitude was radically different when Palestine declared independence from Israeli occupation on Nov. 15, 1988. Then the US and the EU countries (which, in their own eyes, constitute the "international community", to the exclusion of most of mankind) were conspicuously absent when over 100 countries recognized the new State of Palestine, and their nonrecognition made this declaration of independence purely "symbolic" in their own eyes and, unfortunately, in most Palestinian and other eyes as well.
“[...] [T]he Kosovo precedent offers the Ramallah-based Palestinian leadership, accepted as such by the "international community" because it is perceived as serving Israeli and American interests, a golden opportunity to seize the initiative, to reset the agenda and to restore its tarnished reputation in the eyes of its own people. If this leadership truly believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that a decent "two-state solution" is still possible, now is an ideal moment to reaffirm the legal existence (albeit under continuing belligerent occupation) of the State of Palestine, explicitly in the entire 22 percent of Mandatory Palestine which was not conquered and occupied by the State of Israel until 1967, and to call on all those countries which did not extend diplomatic recognition to the State of Palestine in 1988 - and particularly the US and the EU states - to do so now [...]”
While Serbia most certainly did not deserve to be treated like this by the United States, Great Britain, France and the rest of American-client states, there is no question whether those same powers and their puppets will deserve absolutely everything that befalls them after this act of truly unprecedented lawlessness and as a direct consequence of their own actions

Not to forget Tibet riots and now Hungarians in Romania,well what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.Yeah lets freed them ALL, just as you freed Kosovo.

Every now and then in the messy quagmire that is diplomacy and international relations, the true hypocrisy of all this jostling for national position becomes glaringly obvious. Lightly camouflaged behind a veneer of garish moral make-up and far from the bright lights of CNN and the BBC, the diplomatic whores and pimps of our world’s nations ply their trade.

Since provinces are now fair game, nobody who supported the Kosovo independence should have even a wobbly leg to stand on and Bosnia could duly be ripped asunder. Palestinians are licking their chops, as are the Basques, the Tamil Tigers, the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq — and perhaps even little Orania has taken a breath, opened its eyes and started thinking about its future. Fair enough, I guess.

Along the same lines then, why on earth should Tibet not simply declare its independence from China? If Kosovo is a called a “special case” to justify EU and US support, then Tibet must surely be a no-brainer, super-special case. It was formerly a country, not a province, and it was invaded by China in living memory. It is the very modern icon of human rights abuse and displacement and the entire world largely agrees that China is in the wrong and should give poor Tibet back its autonomy. Should it declare independence from China, one would like to believe that the US and the EU would be forced to step up to the plate and recognise it in a flash. On the moral basis of Kosovo, they should have no choice but to do so.

But they won’t. Tibet will remain occupied.
There is quite simply no way that either of them will risk standing up to China and it is inconceivable — in fact, unthinkable — that they would do so unilaterally without China’s consent. That kind of arrogant disregard can only be dished out to countries too weak to resist, preferably ones that you have bombed into submission and ones against which your voters are still nicely prejudiced and from whom you don’t buy billions of dollars’ worth of toys, computers and dog food.
Bottom line: China is a big pimp on the street and Serbia is not. That means you can gang up on Serbia, garner support in Kosovo and build US military bases in nice strategic positions. It means you can run detention centres like Guantánamo Bay in Kosovo (http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/11/25/afx2354167.html) and it means you can kick your old enemy Russia and your new one Iran smugly in the balls. And should Russian diplomacy make inroads with Poland and the Czech Republic (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/13/usa.poland)when you need to put up your missile defence system at the confluence of Russia and Middle East, what a great alternative your new best buddy Kosovo would make. The clues to otherwise indefensible and incomprehensible behaviour are all in the timing and the agendas playing out behind the scenes.
Look no further than the dark corner of the street where the pimps and whores ply their trade. There you might be surprised to find the “democratically pious” and “morally righteous” elbowing their way to the front and slipping a few dollar bills to the whores for the right to play the control and submission game with them in the dark rooms where few good people ever tread.

[TeslaN]

Serbia supports Romania's territorial integrity.

[KoTeMoRe]

They siding Kosovo as example. Well aren't we told Kosovo is a unique case? Huh? Oh my,without international law to guide us, there is just one “Unique Case” After Another.Some taugh wisely warned,independence will set a dangerous precedent, encouraging other ethnic minorities to follow the example of the Albanians and demand secession and an independent State. The United States and EU has dismissed such concerns by flatly asserting that Kosovo is "unique". Well yes, Kosovo is a unique case, and is the only one recognized by the United States until the next "unique case" comes along. When legal criteria have been thrown out, we just have one "unique case" after another.

“The "uniqueness" claimed by the United States is a propaganda construction. It is based on the supposed "uniqueness" of Milosevic's repression of the armed secessionist movement, which was not unique at all. It was standard operating procedure throughout history and the world over, in such circumstances. Deplorable, no doubt, but not unique. It was minor indeed compared to the similar but endless and far bloodier anti-insurgency operations in Colombia, Sri Lanka, and Chechnya, not to mention Northern Ireland, Thailand, the Philippines. And unlike the counter-insurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which kill incomparably more civilians, it was carried out by the legal, democratically elected government of the country, rather than by a foreign power.

Basque Separatists: Kosovo Example to Follow

Though Spain has expressly said it will not recognize southern Serbian province as an independent state, because the "unilateral act" by the Pristina Albanians "is in contravention to the international law", the Basque separatist government welcomed the declaration from Pristina as a "new example of the right of self-determination" and a "lesson to be learned from," and even criticized Spain "for not granting formal recognition."
"It's a lesson to be followed when it comes to peaceful and democratic solutions of the identity and allegiance problems", a regional government spokeswoman told reporters in San Sebastian.
"It shows that respect of the citizens' will is the key to solving difficult political problems," she added.
In other words, the Basque separatists have just been given a master key to perverting democracy and dropping it on its ear, by turning a national minority into a regional majority, so whichever building, village and town you can find with majority of "us" verses "them" — play the "local majority" card, go for it and tear the state up.



Corsican Separatists "Delighted" Over Kosovo Amputation

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/karikature/waco-sarko.jpg

When the French Nicolas Sarkozy visited a school in Perigueux, France, two days before the illegal declaration by the Albanian Pristina separatists, he pointed (http://uk.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1538334820080215) to the map of Europe on a classroom wall which showed Kosovo and Metohija province as part of Serbia, and told schoolchildren they'll have to change their map to show Serbian province as a separate state.
No doubt he was pleased to discover that, four days later, the Independent Corsican Nation (CNI) welcomed with "delight" unilateral declaration of independence by Pristina separatists. At least the evil little gnome Sarkozy has one thing in common with the nation that wants to dismember the state he's presiding over: they are equally delighted over dismemberment of Serbia, although for entirely different reasons.
According to the French media, the Independent Corsican Nation saluted amputated Kosovo province and the "brotherly Kosovo people", which kinda goes to show how much do they know when they think there is such a thing as "Kosovo nation". But the ignorance knows no bounds:
"Our movement is aware of the courageous struggle that you and the Kosovo people have fought to overthrow the sham sovereignty that Belgrade wanted to impose with the rump status of autonomy which did not offer a single basic guarantee to your people," CNI told the war-criminal-turned-prime-minister Hashim Thaci in a letter.
CNI said that they hope that a delegation of the provisional Kosovo government would shortly take part in the so-called International Days, an annual event held each August in Corsica, dedicated to the celebration of Corsican nationalism and rallying European separatists from the Basque country and Catalonia in Spain, the French Bretagne, Sardinia and Sicily, Tyrol and other separatist regions in Europe.
Hopefully, their unrecognized president Sarkozy will be equally gracious in helping schoolchildren in France get used to the new look of French map.

After Kosovo, It Would be Kashmir”

Number of separatist regions outside the Europe are equally thrilled with Kosovo amputation from Serbia and, contrary to laughable US and British claims, see absolutely nothing "unique" about the Serbian province.
The representatives of a long disputed separatist region of Kashmir in India have too rushed to draw parallels between their situation and that of Albanian minority in Serbia, pointing to Serbian Kosovo province as an example they should follow:
“It is a moment of delight for Muslims all over the world,” veteran Kashmir's secessionist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani told the media (http://www.etalaat.net/english/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=323:after-kosovo-it-would-be-kashmir&catid=57:news-scan&Itemid=85) from New Delhi, adding that “the creation of a Muslim state within the European Union has strengthened the resolve of the people of Kashmir to achieve their right to self- determination.”
“The day is not far away,” Geelani said, “when the people of Kashmir will announce their Independence from imperial India.”
Kashmiri senior leader Hurriyat Conference (M) Shabir Shah said, “Independence of Kosovo should serve as an eye-opener to those who say that (Kashmir’s) Accession with India is final and rule out the creation of an independent Kashmir.”
“Such people and parties should stop serving the interests of their masters for petty interests and join hands with us towards the formation of an independent Kashmir as the day is not far away when the people of Kashmir will announce their independence as done by the people of Kosovo,” Shabir Shah said.

“If Kosovo Can Be Free, Why Not Palestine?”

And while the state of Israel allows itself to mull over and weigh and think about whether to join in issue its own recognition to the shameless seizure of Serbia's territory, even the more unpleasant parallels are being drawn and, however painful, expected to grow much louder the moment Israel would accept the monstrous Western creation in Serbia.

John Whitbeck's article titled "If Kosovo Can be Free, Why Not Palestine? (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=106933&d=19&m=2&y=2008)", published on February 19 in the Arab News, has received significant attention in the Muslim world. Viewing unilaterally declared independence of the Albanian minority for severing part of Serbia's territory as destabilizing and worrisome, Whitebeck argues that this act of lawlessness might have "one potentially constructive consequence", that of "Palestinian independence".
“[...] The American and EU impatience to sever a portion of a UN member state (universally recognized, even by them, to constitute a portion of that state's sovereign territory), ostensibly because 90 percent of those living in that portion of the state's territory support separation, contrasts starkly with the unlimited patience of the US and the EU when it comes to ending the 40-year-long belligerent occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (no portion of which any country recognizes as Israel's sovereign territory and as to which Israel has only even asserted sovereignty over a tiny portion, occupied East Jerusalem). Virtually every legal resident of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip seeks freedom - and has for over 40 years. For doing so, they are punished, sanctioned, besieged, humiliated and, day after endless day, killed by those who claim to stand on the moral high ground.
“In American and EU eyes, a Kosovar declaration of independence from Serbian sovereignty should be recognized even if Serbia does not agree. However, their attitude was radically different when Palestine declared independence from Israeli occupation on Nov. 15, 1988. Then the US and the EU countries (which, in their own eyes, constitute the "international community", to the exclusion of most of mankind) were conspicuously absent when over 100 countries recognized the new State of Palestine, and their nonrecognition made this declaration of independence purely "symbolic" in their own eyes and, unfortunately, in most Palestinian and other eyes as well.
“[...] [T]he Kosovo precedent offers the Ramallah-based Palestinian leadership, accepted as such by the "international community" because it is perceived as serving Israeli and American interests, a golden opportunity to seize the initiative, to reset the agenda and to restore its tarnished reputation in the eyes of its own people. If this leadership truly believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that a decent "two-state solution" is still possible, now is an ideal moment to reaffirm the legal existence (albeit under continuing belligerent occupation) of the State of Palestine, explicitly in the entire 22 percent of Mandatory Palestine which was not conquered and occupied by the State of Israel until 1967, and to call on all those countries which did not extend diplomatic recognition to the State of Palestine in 1988 - and particularly the US and the EU states - to do so now [...]”
While Serbia most certainly did not deserve to be treated like this by the United States, Great Britain, France and the rest of American-client states, there is no question whether those same powers and their puppets will deserve absolutely everything that befalls them after this act of truly unprecedented lawlessness and as a direct consequence of their own actions

Not to forget Tibet riots and now Hungarians in Romania,well what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.Yeah lets freed them ALL, just as you freed Kosovo.

Every now and then in the messy quagmire that is diplomacy and international relations, the true hypocrisy of all this jostling for national position becomes glaringly obvious. Lightly camouflaged behind a veneer of garish moral make-up and far from the bright lights of CNN and the BBC, the diplomatic whores and pimps of our world’s nations ply their trade.

Since provinces are now fair game, nobody who supported the Kosovo independence should have even a wobbly leg to stand on and Bosnia could duly be ripped asunder. Palestinians are licking their chops, as are the Basques, the Tamil Tigers, the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq — and perhaps even little Orania has taken a breath, opened its eyes and started thinking about its future. Fair enough, I guess.

Along the same lines then, why on earth should Tibet not simply declare its independence from China? If Kosovo is a called a “special case” to justify EU and US support, then Tibet must surely be a no-brainer, super-special case. It was formerly a country, not a province, and it was invaded by China in living memory. It is the very modern icon of human rights abuse and displacement and the entire world largely agrees that China is in the wrong and should give poor Tibet back its autonomy. Should it declare independence from China, one would like to believe that the US and the EU would be forced to step up to the plate and recognise it in a flash. On the moral basis of Kosovo, they should have no choice but to do so.

But they won’t. Tibet will remain occupied.
There is quite simply no way that either of them will risk standing up to China and it is inconceivable — in fact, unthinkable — that they would do so unilaterally without China’s consent. That kind of arrogant disregard can only be dished out to countries too weak to resist, preferably ones that you have bombed into submission and ones against which your voters are still nicely prejudiced and from whom you don’t buy billions of dollars’ worth of toys, computers and dog food.
Bottom line: China is a big pimp on the street and Serbia is not. That means you can gang up on Serbia, garner support in Kosovo and build US military bases in nice strategic positions. It means you can run detention centres like Guantánamo Bay in Kosovo (http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/11/25/afx2354167.html) and it means you can kick your old enemy Russia and your new one Iran smugly in the balls. And should Russian diplomacy make inroads with Poland and the Czech Republic (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/13/usa.poland)when you need to put up your missile defence system at the confluence of Russia and Middle East, what a great alternative your new best buddy Kosovo would make. The clues to otherwise indefensible and incomprehensible behaviour are all in the timing and the agendas playing out behind the scenes.
Look no further than the dark corner of the street where the pimps and whores ply their trade. There you might be surprised to find the “democratically pious” and “morally righteous” elbowing their way to the front and slipping a few dollar bills to the whores for the right to play the control and submission game with them in the dark rooms where few good people ever tread.

I think it might be safe to move this into the Kosovo Thread. So the Hungarian Minority Thread in Romania would not get locked.

[FlankerFlyer]

I think it might be safe to move this into the Kosovo Thread. So the Hungarian Minority Thread in Romania would not get locked.


Since their aspirations are INSPIRED by developments in Kosovo and its so -called uniqueness, I venture to say it has all credibility and relevance with the original topic and deserves to be heard and examined. Who appointed you this thread monitor ( tzar)? And,frankly, I don't think you're up to the job.

[KoTeMoRe]

Since their aspirations are INSPIRED by developments in Kosovo and its so -called uniqueness, I venture to say it has all credibility and relevance with the original topic and deserves to be heard and examined. Who appointed you this thread monitor ( tzar)? And,frankly, I don't think you're up to the job.

Young one, you're preaching among converted here. But in the case you haven't heard about it, there's a chart you sign before gaining access to MP.net

It states that going off-topic is not recommended.

However, it was merely an opinion, answering tit to tat is of no real use.

[FlankerFlyer]

Young one, [as opposite to ..the old one? How very very dull. And overdone.] you're preaching among converted here. [What's it to you? ]

But in the case you haven't heard about it, there's a chart you sign before gaining access to MP.net. [Again,who appointed you to the MP net committee?]

It states that going off-topic is not recommended.
[Oh, I beg to differ. How am I off the topic when the issue at hand is Kosovo as precedent . Nice try tough . You fail to show how my post is not relevant and incoherent with the main topic.]

However, it was merely an opinion, answering tit to tat is of no real use.[/quote] [*Whisting.*You're putting me on, aren't you? Anyway,the problem isn't that people don't EXPRESS their opinions. The problem is that so few of you base them in fact]

[KoTeMoRe]

Young one, [as opposite to ..the old one? How very very dull. And overdone.] you're preaching among converted here. [What's it to you? ]

But in the case you haven't heard about it, there's a chart you sign before gaining access to MP.net. [Again,who appointed you to the MP net committee?]

It states that going off-topic is not recommended.
[Oh, I beg to differ. How am I off the topic when the issue at hand is Kosovo as precedent . Nice try tough . You fail to show how my post is not relevant and incoherent with the main topic.]

However, it was merely an opinion, answering tit to tat is of no real use. [*Whisting.*You're putting me on, aren't you? Anyway,the problem isn't that people don't EXPRESS their opinions. The problem is that so few of you base them in fact][/quote]

Your way of replying shows more passion, an old fart like myself could be capable of expressing.

We (your targeted audience) know Kosovo's case is not unique, we know as the Kosovo thread shows, that there are other people agreeing with you.

But, this is a thread about an Hungarian minority in Romania. We would like to know more about this peculiar issue, not spamming this thread with another case, that albeit related, is of no real use (a part going off topic).


But yet again, what facts do you provide in the Romanian Case? A part linking it with Kosovo.

[FlankerFlyer]

Here we go again, running in circles! They , meaning Hungarian minority, is doing it for me. They are linking it to Kosovo. Kosovo's action hearten a Hungarian enclave. When Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia in February, hundreds of the town's Hungarians took to the main square to demonstrate in its favor and, by extension, their own aspirations for autonomy.It clearly demonstrates why Kosovo issue is dividing Europe, a far cry from seeking stability and talk of how Balkans should work to strengthen Europe, not be a problem for Europe. The initial responses to Kosovo's independence, however, suggest that the Balkans will remain a problem for Europe for the foreseeable future.

[eugenlitwin]

They don't wanna.

The locals probably look down on em. Not 'real' Albanians anymore.

They got it better in Kosovo anyway from an economic point of view. They got western support too.

They got jack and sh*t in Albania and jack just left.

Hungarian minority in Romania is a totally different story other than the fact that they are probably likely to be discriminated against by Hungarians in Hungary.

Its an interesting question. I understand that, economically, Hungary is in a stronger position than Romania. I'm also assuming that the EU is not interested in the break up of member states.

So why is the question? Looks like they are seeking some degree of autonomy not independence.

At any rate, this looks like sh*t stirring and nothing more.

senx man, that´s explain everything, let´s just give bbc to know it and we ´d be wealthy people

[KoTeMoRe]

Here we go again, running in circles! They , meaning Hungarian minority, is doing it for me. They are linking it to Kosovo. Kosovo's action hearten a Hungarian enclave. When Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia in February, hundreds of the town's Hungarians took to the main square to demonstrate in its favor and, by extension, their own aspirations for autonomy.It clearly demonstrates why Kosovo issue is dividing Europe, a far cry from seeking stability and talk of how Balkans should work to strengthen Europe, not be a problem for Europe. The initial responses to Kosovo's independence, however, suggest that the Balkans will remain a problem for Europe for the foreseeable future.

And they have a territorial subdivision that could remotely back up their aspirations? About that symbolical coup, does Kosovo mean to these people?

Is is simply if they have it, we must too?

Where did you saw division in Europe about Kosovo? The Europeans do want the Serbians to get rid of Kosovo. And even Spain when the time will be right will admit the de facto split.

The point being that the EU logic is the same old crap. Divide and Conquer.

Tis of no use to get all heated up. But i want more specific answers for this case, if we got a Romanian in MP.net with knowledge. Mine is sketchy and brainwash derivate.


Politically we're going back to the middle ages with regions being promoted, regions that fairly dramatically fit either in old domain boundaries, either in problematic ethnic spreadings.

[FlankerFlyer]

The point being that the EU logic is the same old crap. Divide and Conquer.




Politically we're going back to the middle ages with regions being promoted, regions that fairly dramatically fit either in old domain boundaries, either in problematic ethnic spreadings.


Well I could live with that assessment. I will just add, EU MADE its own sh*t to stew in. Surprise, surprise.