PDA

View Full Version : Greatest special operations



Ichabod
04-08-2008, 11:29 AM
This is a thread which i created to cover some of the greatest special operations from ww2 until today.Post what your favorite raid or strike was,discuss about it.
One of my favorite ones is the seizure of Amin's palace in 79' and the hostage crisis of four soviet diplomats in 85'.

IDF_TANKER
04-08-2008, 11:45 AM
My personal favorite - operation Raviv. There was a whole thread about it:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6609

There also was a thread not a long time ago with similar topic, can't find it right now.

colmurph
04-08-2008, 11:50 AM
I think the Son Tay Raid by Col. "Bull Simons and Cpt. **** Meadows hs to be up there somewhere, even though the intel they received was not up to date.

Ichabod
04-08-2008, 12:08 PM
I think the Son Tay Raid by Col. "Bull Simons and Cpt. **** Meadows hs to be up there somewhere, even though the intel they received was not up to date.

''We are going to rescue 70 American prisoners of war, maybe more, from a camp called Son Tay. This is something American prisoners have a right to expect from their fellow Soldiers.'' :)


My personal favorite - operation Raviv. There was a whole thread about it:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6609

There also was a thread not a long time ago with similar topic, can't find it right now.


Nice :)
Israeli raids are (and always were) my most favorite ones.I know that in the 68'-70' years there were a lot of similar raids,if you find some more please post them here :)

muck
04-08-2008, 12:13 PM
My top three: The German Raid on Fort Eben Emael in Belgium in WW2 for being the first airborne special operations raid in history, the US-led raid on the Cabantuan POW camp in the Philippines at the end of the war for being the most successful rescue operation ever, and Operation Fire Magic, the liberation of the hijacked Lufthansa Flight LH181 for being the most lossfree raid on a plane.

vinny_121_ND
04-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Operation Barras to rescue the 6 british soldiers in sierra leone in 2000, and the Japanese embassy hostage rescue in lima, peru in 96.

Kaplanr
04-08-2008, 01:20 PM
Have to be cliche and go with "Operation Jonathan", the rescue at Entebbe. I'm also a fan of "Operation Isotope", the assault and rescue of hostages on a Sabena jet at Lod (now Ben Gurion) Airport on May 9, 1972. Sayeret Matkal conducted the assault led by Ehud Barak and one of the other participants was Benjamin Netanyahu.

clean
04-08-2008, 01:36 PM
Merrils Mauraders


The Mauraders had advanced 750 miles and fought in 5 major engagements (Walawbum, Shaduzup, Inkangahtawng, Nhpum Ga, and Myitkyina) and 32 skirmishes with the Japanese Army. They lost 700 men, only 1,300 Marauders remained at capture of Myitkina and of these, 679 had to be hospitalized. This included General Merrill who had suffered a second-heart attack before going down with malaria.

Britboy
04-08-2008, 01:42 PM
A little unconventional, but how about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_elections,_1948

Massive CIA and NKVD efforts here.

Regards
BB

IDF_TANKER
04-08-2008, 01:53 PM
.......
Nice :)
Israeli raids are (and always were) my most favorite ones.I know that in the 68'-70' years there were a lot of similar raids,if you find some more please post them here :)

Well, here is another one:


Background

Green Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Island%2C_Egypt), or Al Jazeera Al Khadraa, was a fortress built by British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain) forces during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II). Located four kilometers south of the city of Suez and the mouth of the Suez Canal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal), it was a series of concrete bunkers sitting atop an eight-foot high seawall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawall), ringed by razor wire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_wire) three rolls deep. Only 145 meters long and 50 meters wide, the island was heavily defended. Its garrison consisted of approximately seventy Egyptian infantrymen and twelve As-Sa'iqa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As-Sa%27iqa) commandos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commandos), fourteen machine gun positions, two 37mm anti-aircraft guns, and four 85mm anti-aircraft guns. The island and surrounding area were within range of both Israeli and Egyptian artillery sited on opposite shores of the gulf.
Though the destruction of Egyptian early warning radar and ELINT sites was an ongoing goal during this period, known as the War of Attrition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition), the raid was as much prompted by a wish to send a "message" to Egypt as it was the actual destruction of the military targets. IDF Chief of Staff Chaim Bar Lev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bar_Lev) and Minister of Defense Moshe Dayan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Dayan) together decided that Egypt should be shown that no Egyptian position was safe, no matter how well-fortified or impregnable. As a target, Green Island fulfilled both goals. Green Island could have been more easily attacked by Israeli artillery or aircraft with less risk to Israeli life, but a commando raid would send a clear message and, it was hoped, have a negative effect on Egyptian military forces' morale.

The plan

It was decided that the operation would be a combined operation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_operations), split between elements of Israel's Sayeret Matkal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayeret_Matkal) General Staff Reconnaissance unit and Shayetet 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shayetet_13) Naval Commandos. Lieutenant Colonel Zeev Almog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeev_Almog) commanded the operation. The specific priorities were set at destruction of the 85mm anti-aircraft guns, then the main northern building, then the radar and ELINT site.
The plan called for the Naval Commandos, using Zodiac inflatable boats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_boat), to lead the first of two waves in the assault. The second wave, by Sayeret Matkal, would consist of commandos, command and control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_and_Control_%28Military%29) and medical teams, and an extraction team. The second wave commandos would arrive to carry the fight just as the first wave ran low on ammunition.

The battle

The first wave consisted of four teams of two officers and three commandos each and departed from the vicinity of Ras Sudar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ras_Sudar) on the east bank of the Gulf of Suez at 2030. They approached to within 900 meters of the island by boat, then swam, first on the surface and once closer underwater using rebreathers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather). Each man carried 40 kilograms of gear.
The first wave surfaced at the island 8 minutes behind schedule, at 0138. The delay was caused by a more difficult swim than anticipated due to the currents. The first team breached the barbed wire allowing the second team to move in and counter the initial Egyptian response. The third team then crossed a small bridge and destroyed a defensive and observation tower and radar facility. The fourth team cleared a building to the north. Half the raiders cleared or blocked the southern half of the island, the fortress, while the other half eliminated the radar and anti-aircraft equipment. This was complicated by the fact that most of their hand grenades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenades) were rendered useless by the swim at deeper than expected depths due to each man's heavy load. This breaching of the island's defences was supported by a separate Naval Commando team providing covering fire and diversion with a bazooka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazooka) and a light machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun) from a small rock outcropping just south of the island, having reached it by Swimmer Delivery Vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Delivery_Vehicle) (SDV). At this point the commander of the first wave, Lieutenant Dov Bar, signaled the second wave to come in using a flare. To avoid catching the approaching second wave in a cross fire a second flare by Bar signaled the covering fire and diversion team on the rock outcropping to stand down and withdraw, which they did successfully. The second wave, which had been idling in their Zodiacs in the Gulf, now trailing the first wave's recovered boats, roared up to the island. They quickly set up a command post and aid station and took out the 85mm gun emplacements.
Not much larger than a football field, all combat on the island was conducted at close range. The Egyptian response to the first wave was uncoordinated at first, then became fierce, employing heavy and light machine guns and rocket propelled grenades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_propelled_grenade). After the arrival of the second wave, the efforts of the defenders became sporadic and again uncoordinated, with some jumping from bunkers into the sea, and eventually calling in artillery on their own position.
The extraction was ordered at 0225. By 0255 the teams were aboard the Zodiacs and heading for the eastern bank of the Gulf, having lost one Zodiac at the island to Egyptian artillery fire. At 0310, with the Israeli commandos still crossing the Gulf, satchel charges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_charge) left on the island detonated destroying the remaining facilities. Egyptian artillery now shelled both the Zodiacs and the beachheads set up to receive them, driving several boats away and delaying their landings while they searched for alternate beaches to divert to. Another Zodiac was lost when it was abandoned by its team less than 400 meters from Green Island, but the team was recovered by helicopter at 0500 after spending several hours swimming toward the eastern shore.

Aftermath

The result of the raid was the destruction of the entire Egyptian facility at Green Island. Israeli casualties were three Sayeret Matkal and three Shayetet 13 commandos killed, and eleven wounded - a casualty rate of approximately fifty percent. Egyptian casualties were 80 killed (almost the entire garrison) and an unknown number wounded. An unknown number of the Egyptian casualties were caused by friendly fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire); the shelling of the island by their own artillery. Following the raid the Israeli Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force) exploited the hole in Egyptian air defenses and engaged the Egyptian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force) in over 300 dogfights and bombing raids. Naval Commando conducted another 80 raids along the Suez Canal until the 1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970) cease-fire ended the War of Attrition.
Ami Ayalon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ami_Ayalon) received the Medal of Valor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Valor), Israel's highest decoration, for his actions during the battle.


Source.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bulmus_6)

Loke-Gao-Zhu
04-08-2008, 08:34 PM
Operation August Storm < Operation codename sounds cool

wait...you mean special operation....but the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was sort of a special operation anyway due to the delusions caused by Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings

Toddy1
04-08-2008, 08:51 PM
The Iranian Embassy Siege 1980...brought Special Forces to the forefront world wide.

Buckeye67
04-08-2008, 08:52 PM
-October 1759, Major Robert Rogers leads 200 Rangers from Crown Point, NY deep into french territory to destroy the Abenaki village at St. Francis in Quebec. The raid itself was deemed a success, but the Rangers' return trip was disasterous.

-July 1778/February 1779, George Rogers Clark leads approximately 175 men over 275 miles to take the British outposts at Vincennes, IN and Kaskaskia, IL. He takes Vincennes without firing a shot. In 1779, the british reoccupy Vincennes. Clark then leads his men on a grueling winter march retaking Vincennes in February 1779, capturing british governor Henry Hamilton and securing the (Old) Northwest Territory for the American colonies.

I'm going to include this next one because it was a military operation:

-May 1804 to September 1806, The Corps of Discovery led by Captains Meriwether Lewis and William Clark successfully crosses the continent of North America by land, and returns.

bryanleu2002
04-08-2008, 09:11 PM
india ,juliet, mako 31, team operation anaconda

March 1, 2002
In eastern Afghanistan, Operation Anaconda begins. U.S. special operations forces are secretly infiltrated in to set up observation posts. These forces consist of three teams: Juliet, India, and Mako 31. Teams Juliet and India are primarily Delta commandos, and they were to take positions to allow the north and south of the Shahi-Kot Valley and the approaches from Gardez to be observed. Mako 31, a SEAL team, is tasked to set up an observation post on the Finger, allowing reconnaissance of the TF Rakkasan landing zones. While attempting to reach their post, Mako 31 observed a group of fighters with a DShK machine gun. This gun was emplaced in a position that would have allowed it to engage the Chinook helicopters bringing in the first wave of U.S. troops. Plans were made to destroy this emplacement at D-1 hour.



http://www.urbanwarfarecenter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=123&Itemid=177

Alpha_Mustang
04-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Something about SCUD-Hunting in Desert Stomr/shield always got to me.
I think its the whole "Modern thing" coupled with the stakes of being behind enemy lines, and the objective having such a high value.

Toddy1
04-08-2008, 10:12 PM
Something about SCUD-Hunting in Desert Stomr/shield always got to me.
I think its the whole "Modern thing" coupled with the stakes of being behind enemy lines, and the objective having such a high value.

Dude you should read about some of the crazy **** Sir David Stirling had the originals (SAS) do in the northern deserts of Africa during WWII, posing as German officers, jeep battles while miles behind enemy lines, blowing up aircraft...kind of the whole pre-cursor for the Sud hunting missions from the Gulf war.

IMTT
04-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Category -HOSTAGE RESCUE-

1st place for me; The Japanese embassy hostage crisis began on December 17, 1996 in Lima, Peru, when 14 members of the Túpac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA) took hostage hundreds of high-level diplomats, government and military officials and business executives who were attending a party at the official residence of Japan's ambassador to Peru, Morihisha Aoki, in celebration of Emperor Akihito's 63rd birthday. Although strictly speaking the crisis took place at the ambassador's residence rather than at the embassy proper, the media and others referred to it as the "Japanese embassy" hostage crisis, and that is how it is conventionally known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_embassy_hostage_crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_embassy_hostage_crisis)

2nd place; Early Saturday morning, October 26, 2002, forces from Russia's SPETSNAZ (or "special purpose") from the FSB, with the assistance of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) SOBR unit, surrounded and stormed the theater, first through the gay bar below the building. Representatives of emergency operations HQ reported that the assault operation was triggered when the terrorists allegedly started shooting hostages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis)

Category -Military SPECOPS-

Where to start?

RAID
The Capture of Fort Eben. The attack had to be carefully co-ordinate so that it took place just at the same time as the main Wehrmacht attack across the Belgium border. In this way, the Belgium army would be fully occupied and no units outside of the fort could come to its aid. The raid was full of risks. Take-off and landings were potential problems. When the gliders came within range of the fort’s anti-aircraft guns, they were at risk. To compensate for the latter, the attack was planned at half-light – making the task of the glider pilots even more difficult as visibility would be a key issue. The plan was to release the gliders 20 kilometres from the fort at a height of 2000 meters. The pilots selected for the raid were considered to be the best and were given a target of landing their gliders within 20 meters of their chosen target.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/capture_of_fort_eben.htm (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/capture_of_fort_eben.htm)


SPECOPS FID/UW
2001 CIA (first on the ground),US and Coalition special forces assitance in creation of the Afghan insurgency against the Taliban. Brilliant, exceptional and extraordinary in all ways. True Special forces FID/ UW. No modern day paralell. Parachute in, walk in and or get there. Start with a hand full of rebels and force multple until you have an Army. True SPECOPS in all ways not grunt shoot everyone / ranger stuff. Change a country through intelligence and force multiplication. Speak and understand the locals win hearts & minds and over throw a country. Small elite force that understands COIN and has a few personnel for a big change. No tanks, grunts or huge units. Smart out of the box thinkers making it happen, point of the spear. A few against many, changing the total landscape of a country.

AreKay7
04-08-2008, 10:40 PM
The Iranian Embassy Siege 1980...brought Special Forces to the forefront world wide.

Agreed. First time the public was introduced to CT teams like the SAS.

Another of what I consider to be one of the most impressive operations was Gothic Serpent/ Battle of Mog. Impressive for the simple fact of even though the odds where hugely stacked against them, the Rangers, Delta and Seals prevailed. Also impressive due to the bravery of men like Gordon, Shugart, the USAF PJs, the 160th pilots and every man that was there for that matter.

AirCommando
04-09-2008, 03:02 PM
...The German Raid on Fort Eben Emael in Belgium in WW2 for being the first airborne special operations raid in history.....and Operation Fire Magic, the liberation of the hijacked Lufthansa Flight LH181 for being the most lossfree raid on a plane.
I 101% agree with you and I would to like to ad OPERATION WONDERBRA.

lightfire
04-09-2008, 04:58 PM
How about one of those recent OPs, where italian hostages have been freed from taliban hands in quite a darring SF raid, AFAIK last year.

IMTT
04-09-2008, 05:49 PM
The Capture of Fort Eben. This attack was the first record use of shape charges and was overwhelmingly successful with minimum injuries on the German side. This operation was totally revolutionary in execution, tactics and planning.


Here's the website for OPERATION WONDERBRA
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2003/12/the_wonder_bra_.html

Hecatonchiros
04-10-2008, 04:41 AM
The St. Nazaire Raid, or Operation Chariot, is my personal favorite. The casulties were heavy for the Commandos and the Royal Navy, but they got the job done despite tremendous odds. Five Victoria Crosses were awarded to men involved in the raid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Nazaire_Raid

http://scotsatwar.co.uk/AZ/_derived/stnaziere.htm_txt_hmscampbeltown.gif

wildheart
04-10-2008, 04:53 AM
Another vote for Operation Nimrod (Iranian Embassy)

www.operationnimrod.com (http://www.operationnimrod.com)

This is near enough my earlest memory as a child. Even though i'd be about 3 I remember sat playing in front of the telly with all the family watching it live.

2nd place go's to Op Redwing

AirCommando
04-10-2008, 06:05 AM
[
Here's the website for OPERATION WONDERBRA
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2003/12/the_wonder_bra_.html
No Sir! Operations Wonderbra was my first covert operation as teenager to find out how to open a bra at some hot high school teen in a dark tend on the beach.......How the SAS said: proper prior planning prevent piss poor performance................

Peris
04-10-2008, 04:37 PM
and the hostage crisis of four soviet diplomats in 85'.



you mean the story when spetsnaz mutilated the .......?:) that was a classic


On September 30, 1985, terrorists of the Islamic Liberation
Organization kidnapped four Soviet diplomats in Beirut, Lebanon.
They shot one of them, Arkady Katkov, in the head, left his corpse
in a soccer stadium, and announced they would shoot the others
unless their demands were met (that the Soviets cease support of a
rival terrorist group).

The KGB instant it learned of Katkov's death, they
assigned a Spetsnaz counterterrorism group known as "Alfa" to the
situation. The Alfa team located the brother of the ILO leader,
cut off his ********s, beheaded him, sewed the ********s in his
mouth, and sent the severed head in a sack to the ILO with the
message:

"If our men are not released unharmed in 24 hours, the
********s of your other brothers will end up in the heads of your
wives."

The Soviet hostages were released promptly. What is more
revealing, however, is that no Middle Eastern terrorists bothered
the Soviets ever again.

Ravage
04-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Acid Gambit - rescue of Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama just before operation Just Cause.

Polish GROM, Navy SEALs and Navy SWCCs took over two oil rigs MAABOT and KAAOT just as OIF began

Khawr Al Amaya Oil Terminal

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_010_th.jpg
HiRes (http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_010.jpg)
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_020_th.jpg
HiRes (http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_020.jpg)
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_056_th.jpg
HiRes (http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060714/20020623adf8094997_056.jpg)

Ichabod
04-10-2008, 07:18 PM
How about one of those recent OPs, where italian hostages have been freed from taliban hands in quite a darring SF raid, AFAIK last year.
hmm,haven't heard of that one.Have more info?


Well, here is another one:



Source.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bulmus_6)

Nice,thx Tanker woot


you mean the story when spetsnaz mutilated the .......?:) that was a classic

Yup,you don't see those anymore :)



The Soviet hostages were released promptly. Who would have thought :)

What is more revealing, however, is that no Middle Eastern terrorists bothered
the Soviets ever again.
Yeah, just goes to show that the No Negotiation policy actually does work when implemented correctly.Thats what you get when you mess with the wrong fvckers.....

Anyway i like the way in which this thread is going,thx guys and keep up the good work woot

I watched a documentary about the St. Nazaire raid,daring one indeed.Speaking of such raids into France here is also a good one:

Operation Biting-it was a raid with the goal of capturing the German Wurzburg radar at Bruneval.Some of the troops landed away from their originally planed position and a fierce engagement followed while awaiting extraction on the beach,but the mission was a success :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Biting

Peris
04-10-2008, 07:30 PM
I think the Iranian embassy is tops while going back to ww2 Crete i like this:


The Abduction of General Kreipe in Crete in 1944


Abduction by Greek and British agents

In the spring of 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944), a plan was laid out by the Allies to kidnap General Müller, whose harsh repressive measures had earned him the nickname "the Butcher of Crete". The operation was led by Major Patrick Leigh Fermor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Leigh_Fermor), together with Captain W. Stanley Moss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Stanley_Moss), Greek SOE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Executive) agents and Cretan resistance fighters. However, Müller left the island before the plan could be carried out. Undeterred, Fermor decided to abduct Kreipe instead.
In the night of April 26, General Kreipe left his headquarters in Heraklion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion) and headed without escort to his well-guarded residence, "Villa Ariadni", approximately 25 km outside Heraklion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion). Major Fermor and Captain Moss, dressed as German military policemen, waited for him 1 km before his residence. They asked the driver to stop and asked for their papers. As soon as the car stopped, Fermor quickly opened Kreipe's door, rushed in and threatened him with his gun while Moss took the driver's seat. After driving some distance the British left the car, with suitable decoy material being planted that suggesting an escape off the island had been made by submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine), and with the General began a cross-country march. Hunted by German patrols, the group moved across the mountains to reach the southern side of the island, where a British boat (ML 842 commanded by Brian Coleman) was to pick them up. Eventually, on 14 May 1944 they were picked up (from Peristeres beach near Rhodakino) and transferred to Egypt.
Kreipe was interrogated, and then transferred to a POW camp in Canada. He was released from British captivity in 1947. General Kreipe met his kidnappers one more time in 1970 in a Greek TV show. He died at Northeim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeim) on 14 June 1976.

Britboy
04-10-2008, 07:49 PM
That Op Biting makes me think of: http://www.cinema.com/articles/1496/two-men-went-to-war-story.phtml

Really wish I'd seen that; true story.

I think on that Wurzburg radar raid, they had orders to kill the RAF radar tech they took with them if it all went pear-shaped? Or did I just imagine I read that?

You'd have thought that by 1942 the battle of radars wouldve been more subdued. I mean the Battle of Britain was over. Guess you could say they wanted the information to make our strategic bombing less vulnerable, but why not just bomb the radars? Interesting stuff though.

baboon6
04-10-2008, 08:37 PM
That Op Biting makes me think of: http://www.cinema.com/articles/1496/two-men-went-to-war-story.phtml

Really wish I'd seen that; true story.

I think on that Wurzburg radar raid, they had orders to kill the RAF radar tech they took with them if it all went pear-shaped? Or did I just imagine I read that?

You'd have thought that by 1942 the battle of radars wouldve been more subdued. I mean the Battle of Britain was over. Guess you could say they wanted the information to make our strategic bombing less vulnerable, but why not just bomb the radars? Interesting stuff though.

No that story is AFAIK not true. They wanted the radar to develop countermeasures for Bomber Command- I believe "Window" (chaff) came out of this. Bombing every radar with 1940s technology was just not on.

DesktopArmor
04-10-2008, 09:35 PM
No that story is AFAIK not true. They wanted the radar to develop countermeasures for Bomber Command- I believe "Window" (chaff) came out of this. Bombing every radar with 1940s technology was just not on.

"Window" came even earlier, before the war really took off, but they were afraid to use it for fear that the Germans would copy it and make their devices safe from its clutter. Getting their hands on the radar proved that not only would "Window" work, but that the Wurzburg could not handle it. Bomb it, and it would just have been rebuilt, whereas take the technology, and you can engineer a countermeasure.

BearInBunnySuit
04-10-2008, 11:33 PM
Have to be cliche and go with "Operation Jonathan", the rescue at Entebbe. I'm also a fan of "Operation Isotope", the assault and rescue of hostages on a Sabena jet at Lod (now Ben Gurion) Airport on May 9, 1972. Sayeret Matkal conducted the assault led by Ehud Barak and one of the other participants was Benjamin Netanyahu.

Me too. My vote is for the Entebbe rescue also.

Delta Niner
04-11-2008, 02:34 AM
Aside from Operation Jonathan or Raid at Entebbe and Operation Nimrod, I always thought that Operation Oak led by Otto Skorzeny to rescue Mussolini from a holding cell in Gran Sasso was pretty marvelous and the ill-fated mission led by Lt. Col. Geoffrey Tasker Keyes' to assasinate Erwin Rommel in 1941.

Komalars
04-11-2008, 05:05 AM
How about Operation Gunnerside, Norway 43? Daring raid,to disrupt possible german nuclear weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gunnerside

Dean1962
04-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Operation August Storm < Operation codename sounds cool

wait...you mean special operation....but the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was sort of a special operation anyway due to the delusions caused by Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings

Ummm... care to explain that?

IMTT
04-12-2008, 11:01 PM
you mean the story when spetsnaz mutilated the .......?:) that was a classic


On September 30, 1985, terrorists of the Islamic Liberation
Organization kidnapped four Soviet diplomats in Beirut, Lebanon.
They shot one of them, Arkady Katkov, in the head, left his corpse
in a soccer stadium, and announced they would shoot the others
unless their demands were met (that the Soviets cease support of a
rival terrorist group).

The KGB instant it learned of Katkov's death, they
assigned a Spetsnaz counterterrorism group known as "Alfa" to the
situation. The Alfa team located the brother of the ILO leader,
cut off his ********s, beheaded him, sewed the ********s in his
mouth, and sent the severed head in a sack to the ILO with the
message:

"If our men are not released unharmed in 24 hours, the
********s of your other brothers will end up in the heads of your
wives."

The Soviet hostages were released promptly. What is more
revealing, however, is that no Middle Eastern terrorists bothered
the Soviets ever again.

Great Information, thanks! I remember hearing of this when it happened never knowing the facts. We laughed many times about the outcome and what a great Phyop and direct action victory against these pukes. Just outstanding...it is nice to know the facts so many years later.

Peris
04-14-2008, 08:15 AM
Great Information, thanks! I remember hearing of this when it happened never knowing the facts. We laughed many times about the outcome and what a great Phyop and direct action victory against these pukes. Just outstanding...it is nice to know the facts so many years later.


you are welcome. :)

a_very_ex_STAB
04-14-2008, 02:22 PM
The St. Nazaire Raid, or Operation Chariot, is my personal favorite. The casulties were heavy for the Commandos and the Royal Navy, but they got the job done despite tremendous odds. Five Victoria Crosses were awarded to men involved in the raid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Nazaire_Raid

http://scotsatwar.co.uk/AZ/_derived/stnaziere.htm_txt_hmscampbeltown.gif

x2 on that one for me!

a_very_ex_STAB
04-14-2008, 02:24 PM
you mean the story when spetsnaz mutilated the .......?:) that was a classic


On September 30, 1985, terrorists of the Islamic Liberation
Organization kidnapped four Soviet diplomats in Beirut, Lebanon.
They shot one of them, Arkady Katkov, in the head, left his corpse
in a soccer stadium, and announced they would shoot the others
unless their demands were met (that the Soviets cease support of a
rival terrorist group).

The KGB instant it learned of Katkov's death, they
assigned a Spetsnaz counterterrorism group known as "Alfa" to the
situation. The Alfa team located the brother of the ILO leader,
cut off his ********s, beheaded him, sewed the ********s in his
mouth, and sent the severed head in a sack to the ILO with the
message:

"If our men are not released unharmed in 24 hours, the
********s of your other brothers will end up in the heads of your
wives."

The Soviet hostages were released promptly. What is more
revealing, however, is that no Middle Eastern terrorists bothered
the Soviets ever again.

Wasn't that one a 1980s urban myth

Rudolph
04-15-2008, 10:21 AM
Two operations from Peter Stiff’s The Silent War – South African Recce Operations 1969 – 1994 (1999), ISBN 1-919854-04-5

P. 534 – 535

Port Namibe: assault from the sea: 5 June 1986

4-Recce, with elements from other Recce units, dealt an effective blow against Port Namibe on 5 June 1986. With a strike craft as the mother ship, they deployed ski boats less than 1 000 meters from the harbour entrance. The strike craft waited until they had conducted their operation, narrowly missing a collision with a local fishing trawler in the meantime. Divers quietly attached limpet mines with timers to cargo ships in the harbour, while other teams set charges in a tank farm within the harbour area. The attackers escaped without detection.

The explosions, according to MPLA sources, sank a Cuban cargo ship, damaged two Soviet cargo ships, destroyed two fuel tanks and damaged another in the tank farm. This damage report came from MPLA sources, which in a closed society like Angola, indicates the destruction achieved was probably far more than admitted.

MPLA wrongly claimed a South African strike craft had fired Scorpion missiles into the tank farm. The missile was designed for ship to ship, not ship to shore, and the SA Navy would not have wasted an expensive missile on a job it was not intended for.

P. 545 – 547.

Operation Coolidge: Dropping of Cuito bridge: 25-26 August 1987

In May 1987 4-Recce received orders to conduct a study into the feasibility of dropping the Cuito River bridge at Cuito Cuanavale. The bridge was considered a vital element in the logistical support of FAPLA’s forces east of the river.

A two-man team conducted a close-in reconnaissance and after their report was studied, it was agreed an operation was feasible. At the planning stage, however, it was decided more damage would be done to the enemy if the bridge was destroyed after FAPLA’s offensive forces had moved east of the bridge and begun their new offensive.

A combat swimming team of twelve operators from 4-Recce moved to Fort Foot at Rundu to rehearse and make preparations. They were Major Fred Wilke, Staff Sergeants Antonie Beukman and Gerhardus Heydenrych, Sergeants Richard Brent Burt, Jacobus de Wet, Phillipus Herbst, Henk Liebenberg, Adriano Manuel, Johannes Oettle, Johannes van der Merwe, Leslie Wessels and Corporal Pieter van Niekerk.

On the night of 25-26 August 1987 the group, equipped with two-man Klepper canoes and frogman gear, were dropped by Puma helicopters 70-km north of Cuito Cuanavale on the banks of the crocodile-infested and swollen Cuito River. A substantial distance from the target was necessary to ensure the outlying FAPLA outposts did not hear helicopter sounds. After paddling for three hours, they cached the canoes and laid-up during the hours of daylight. When darkness fell, they continued south, swimming in buddy pairs with the current.

Major Fred Wilke and his buddy came across unforeseen underwater obstacles placed by the enemy in the area leading up to the target. Ignoring the dangers, they continued swimming toward the bridge. They were spotted by enemy patrols when in the shallows and targeted with small arms fire and showered with grenades. Fred, wounded in his right upper arm, was saved from almost certain death by his buddy who dragged him beneath the surface and swam him past the bridge to safety.

Sergeants van der Merwe and Manuel also bumped the underwater obstacles and became aware the enemy had been alerted to the presence of raiders by the rattle of small arms fire and the explosion of grenades ahead. They managed to avoid the alerted enemy outposts by swimming deep in the river’s main current. They ignored the pregnant danger of their sensitive charges being activated by the shock waves of exploding grenades, calmly arming and placing them, then continued downstream without being seen.

Antonie Beukman, Leslie Wessels, Henk Liebenberg, Johannes Oettle and Jacobus de Wet all managed to avoid the enemy, lay their charges and get clear.

The enemy spotted Sergeants Heydenrych and Pieter van Niekerk, when the latter’s backpack broke surface in the shallows. This attracted a heavy concentration of enemy fire and they dived for deeper water. Flares bursting overhead ad illuminating the river were clearly visible from under the water, as they swam deep in the mainstream towards the bridge. Pausing briefly, they armed their charges, tied them to a tree stump near a supporting pillar and swam on downstream.

When sergeants Burt and Herbst arrived at the bridge, the enemy was aroused and lively. To make matters worse, Sergeant Herbst got tangled in the barbed wire of the underwater obstacles. Sergeant Burt, working calmly and efficiently, managed to free him. They swam on to the target area, which the enemy was making unbearable with exploding grenades. Placing their charges precisely on target was too dangerous, as the shock waves of exploding grenades would likely have set them off. Instead they armed them, deposited them as close to the bridge as possible, then dived deep and swam until they were clear.

The teams gradually drifted into the rendezvous, an hour’s swim downstream from the bridge. Sergeant Herbst administered first aid to Major Wilke. Finally, everyone was there except Staff Sergeant Beukman and Sergeant Leslie Wessels.

Major Wilke waited for as long as possible, but finally gave a reluctant order to move on. They had to put as much distance between themselves and the bridge as they could before first light. The helicopter pick-up point was a seven-hour swim and 20-km on foot away. If the missing two survived, they would head for an alternative rendezvous for a later pick-up.

Major Wilke, unable to dive because of his wounds, was forced to swim on the surface for most of the time. Dawn came but there was no respite and they continued swimming, conscious they had to increase the distance between themselves and the enemy. Worse, they had become more vulnerable, as the need to conserve oxygen for emergencies had also dictated they mostly had to swim on the surface.

They were expecting the enemy to deploy foot and helicopter patrols along the river line at first light in attempts to track them down. They were right. Two hours after daybreak a FAPLA patrol sighted them and opened fire.

Sergeants Heydenrych, Burt, Liebenberg and Van der Merwe returned fire with pistols and drove them off, giving the wounded Major Wilke time to escape. They dived to evade further contact.

This was not the end of their troubles because while the rest were covering him, Major Wilke was attacked by a crocodile. The reptile clamped its jaws around a fin and ripped it off. But despite his wounds and the shock of the crocodile attack, Major Wilke continued to the pick-up where he received proper medical assistance for the first time.

Henk Liebenberg and his buddy lost contact during the confusion of the short battle and they were forced by enemy activity to seek cover in the reeds for the remainder of the day. When darkness fell, they continued and eventually caught up with the others.

Sergeants Beukman and Wessels, meanwhile, had to go past the bridge and they swam as far as they could downstream before first light. Daylight brought a hive of enemy activity along the river banks, so they also laid-up in a reed patch for the rest of the day. When darkness fell, they continued to swim, but when they reached the first rendezvous the others had left.

It was too late to head straight for the primary pick-up point, because by the time they had finished their swim and marched the 20-km to get there, they would have missed the helicopter anyway. Instead, they set off for the emergency rendezvous where it had been arranged a Puma would pick up stragglers. The abundance of enemy patrols dictated they remain in the river and drift with the current until the enemy were outdistanced. When they deemed they were safe, they would cut inland and head for the emergency rendezvous.

They were swimming on the surface to conserve oxygen, when a huge crocodile slid up unseen from the depths, clamped its great jaws on Sergeant Beukman and dragged him beneath the surface.

Gripping him in its terrible jaws, the reptile began threshing him backwards and forwards under water to drown him, which is the way of the crocodile. Keeping his head in what was a truly terrifying circumstance, Beukman held his breath, ignored the pain and groped for and put on his oxygen mask so he could breathe.

With the prospect of drowning no longer a certainty, he unsheathed his fighting knife and stabbed the fearsome creature again and again in its eyes and in the soft area under its neck until it suddenly let go and swam away. Sergeant Wessels who had dived to locate his leader, found him, brought him to the surface and manhandled him to the bank.

Sergeant Beukman, despite a severe savaging from the saurian, managed to make it to the pick-up point where they were both collected by a helicopter.

The Recces had severely damaged the Cuito bridge, but had not dropped it. Nevertheless, pending emergency repairs, FAPLA was reduced to moving supplies across the river by helicopter and by a ferry. It remained closed to tanks and heavy vehicular traffic for most of the campaign that followed. The effectiveness of the raid was also reduced by the Soviets rushing in TMM bridging equipment, which in the main, overcame FAPLA’s problems of negotiating rivers.

President P.W. Botha, when the raid’s success was brought to his attention, expressed amazement at the professionalism of the operators. He thought their actions were so fantastic that it verged on the unbelievable and ordered the immediate award of the Honoris Crux for bravery to all members of the assault group.

The raid triggered an urgent research programme to find a crocodile repellent, later extended to discover something effective against sharks. Special Forces worked with the CSIR – Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, the Natal Parks Board and other bodies.

Underwater cages were built and used for experiments with crocodiles in the Kruger National Park. Others were utilised off the Natal coast in a quest for shark repellents. Research centred mainly on the use of high intensity light and high intensity sound and laser beams, for which there were high hopes. Eventually the programme was curtailed because of lack of funds before any solution were found.

No efforts were apparently made to draw on the extensive, although inconclusive, research into shark repellents conducted by Britain’s Royal Air Force, the United States Air Force and the Royal Australian Air Force during World War-2.

Yosy
04-15-2008, 05:57 PM
^^^^ south africa special forces are amazing. They did some great ops during their Bush War.

I continue to pray for a new edition of Peter Stiff's book The Silent War. No doubt a fantastic read.

kahn267
04-16-2008, 08:45 PM
2nd place; Early Saturday morning, October 26, 2002, forces from Russia's SPETSNAZ (or "special purpose") from the FSB, with the assistance of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) SOBR unit, surrounded and stormed the theater, first through the gay bar below the building. Representatives of emergency operations HQ reported that the assault operation was triggered when the terrorists allegedly started shooting hostages.


As if that is up there? It was the most stupid mistake
the Russian pumped gas into the air conditioning to make everyone pass out knowing that a few old people and children would die from its strength... despite the amazing work by the spetsnaz, so many people died from choking on their tongues when they pulled everyone out of there

Toddy1
04-16-2008, 08:52 PM
The Dirty Dozen :)

kahn267
04-16-2008, 08:55 PM
One of my favourite Special Forces missions that involved Ehud Barak (Israel's former Prime Minister and Chief of Staff) who dressed undercover as a woman was Operation Spring of Youth

The 1973 Israeli raid on Lebanon (code-named Operation Spring of Youth) took place on the night of April 9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_9) and early morning of April 10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_10), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973) when Israel Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces) special forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces) units attacked several Palestine Liberation Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization) (PLO) targets in Beirut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut) and Sidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidon), Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon).
The Israeli Sayeret Matkal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayeret_Matkal) forces arrived at the Lebanese beaches in Zodiac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Group) boats launched from missile ships offshore. Mossad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad) agents awaited the forces on the beaches with cars rented the previous day, and then drove them to their targets and later back to the beaches for extraction.
During the operation, three PLO leaders, surprised at home, were killed, along with other PLO personnel (reports of actual number killed vary from a dozen to 100). Several Lebanese security people and civilian neighbors were also killed. Two Israeli soldiers were killed by defending militants.

The main target was a pair of seven-story buildings in the fashionable neighborhood of Verdun in West Beirut. These buildings were residential housing for both British and Italian families amongst other Arab families. The building housed Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar (Abu Youssef) . The second seven story building was on the opposite side of the road and was residential. There were two targets in this building, Kamal Adwan and Kamal Nasser.
The team attacking the target was mostly based on Sayeret Matkal commandos, led by then unit-commander Ehud Barak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Barak). (Barak later became IDF Chief of Staff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramatkal) and subsequently Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Israel)). The attacking team also included Yonatan Netanyahu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonatan_Netanyahu), who became unit commander two years later and became known for leading the hostage rescue operation in Entebbe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe) in which he died. The team approached the buildings disguised as civilians and couples (Barak was disguised as a brunette). In the building, the team killed three PLO and Black September leaders:

Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Youssef_Al-Najjar) (Abu Youssef) - an operations leader in the militant group Black September (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September) the group responsible for the 1972 Munich massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre). He was also a PLO veteran, previously head of the Lebanese Fatah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah) branches, head of Fatah internal intelligence organization. His latest duties were head of the PLO's political department and one of Yasser Arafat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat)'s deputies (third in line of Fatah's leadership). His wife was also shot in the raid.
Kamal Adwan (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kamal_Adwan&action=edit&redlink=1) - a PLO chief of operations . Responsible for armed militant activities against Israel in the West Bank and the Gaza strip.
Kamal Nasser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Nasser) - PLO spokesman and member of the PLO Executive Committee.During the operation, an Italian woman who resided in the building was also killed, as well as two Lebanese policemen.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1973_Israeli_raid_on_Lebanon&action=edit&section=2)] Secondary targets

A separate nearby target was a multi-story building which housed militants of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine). The attacking team had 14 commandos, mainly Sayeret Tzanhanim Commando paratroopers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paratroopers_Brigade) led by Amnon Lipkin-Shahak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnon_Lipkin-Shahak), who later succeeded Barak as IDF Chief of Staff. The attacking team met strong resistance early on, and two of its soldiers were killed. Despite this resistance, the force was able to bomb the building. Lipkin-Shahak was also decorated for bravery for his conduct in this operation.
Other targets were blown up after having been searched for papers and other intelligence materials. These targets were attacked by the Israeli Navy, especially Shayetet 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shayetet_13) commandos:

the headquarters of the Fatah's Gaza sector and a workshop which assembled rockets and mines near the Beirut International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut_International_Airport)
another workshop in the northeastern part of Beirut used for assembling rockets and mines
a PLO vehicle garage north of Sidon

IMTT
04-16-2008, 11:48 PM
KHAN267

"As if that is up there? It was the most stupid mistake
the Russian pumped gas into the air conditioning to make everyone pass out knowing that a few old people and children would die from its strength... despite the amazing work by the spetsnaz, so many people died from choking on their tongues when they pulled everyone out of there[/quote]"

A very common reaction for one who doesn't understand or grasp the entire situation. I would submit you need a further deeper understanding of the facts and an apperciation for the deminsions of this event. No these folks didn't "choke on thier tongues". I cannot think of another nation that could have pulled this off without all being killed.

Respectfully

aaronlow
04-16-2008, 11:55 PM
I was under the impression that there were so many civilian deaths because doctors were not told which chemical had been used or how to specifically deal with it beyond basic life support.

karbol
04-17-2008, 12:08 AM
well, i'm from indonesia, so for me the on of the best SF ops are the hijacking of Garuda flight in 1981. and the Mapnduma Hostage Rescue 8 January 1996...

The Hijacking of Garuda Flight GA 206 on 28 March 1981. This was the first serious Indonesian airline hijacking, since the first case was a desperate Marine hijacker who was killed by the pilot. The hijackers, a group called Commando Jihad, hijacked the DC 9 "Woyla", en route from Palembang to Medan, and ordered the pilot to fly the plane to Colombo, Sri Lanka. But since the plane did not have enough fuel, it refueled in Penang, Malaysia and flew to Don Muang International Airport, Bangkok, Thailand. The hijackers demanded the release of Commando Jihad members, imprisoned in Indonesia, and US $ 1.5 million, as well as a plane to take those prisoners to an unspecified destination. The Kopassus commandos who took part in this mission had trained for only three days with totally unfamiliar weapons, but brilliantly executed this fast-paced operation. One of the Kopassus commandos was shot by the leader of the hijackers, and then shot himself. All the hijackers were killed and all the hostages were saved.
Mapnduma Hostage Rescue 8 January 1996. The mastermind for this case was the OPM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Papua_Movement) (Papua Liberation Organization or Organisasi Papua Merdeka), led by Kelly Kwalik. He took a number of Western and Indonesian researchers in the Lorentz National Parc hostage. The OPM demanded that the Indonesian government would give independence to West Papua. At that time the Kopassus commander was Brigadier General Prabowo Subianto, an ex GSG 9 student, and son-in-law of President Suharto. For the safety of the hostages, Prabowo preferred a negotiation process rather than a military operation. Negotiations were first conducted by an American missionary and the bishop of Jayapura and then by the ICRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement) led by Henry Fournier, the ICRC head of mission for Indonesia. The negotiations broke down, and Prabowo had to resort to force. The mission involved 100 soldiers from Kopassus and 400 soldiers from the Navy, Kostrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostrad), Kodam VIII Trikora, and Penerbad. The mission was a success. Two hostages, were killed by OPM guerillas. There were no casualties among other hostages and Kopassus and others army members.

Tema69
04-17-2008, 10:34 AM
As others have pointed out -
The Fallschirmjäger Assault on Fort Eben Emael:
78 Fallschirmjägere landed and captured and held the Fort originally held by around 1.000 Belgian troops. They held it for 24 hours (instead of only 4 hours) under artillery fire before being relieved by ground forces.
The paratroopers lost 4 men, and had 12 WIA.

The Son Tay POW Camp extraction is based on it.

IMTT
04-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Aaronlow,

This was a Hostage taking of the likes never seen before in my opinion. Few if any nations have the resources or structure to intervene to an event of this size and complexity and save so many. Many to include myself have bad mouthed the Russians for losing so many hostages. Upon further research and release of details I'm convinced few if any could have dealt with this event. In fact many international observers were present and still doubt that anyone could have carried this out with the success the Russians experienced. I'm of the opinion if this would have happened in the USA we would have been at a loss and been forced to make concessions to the criminals / terrorists or had all killed (I could be wrong but I don't think so). The Russian forces, commanders and medical staff involved knew what narcotic agent used was and the effects it would have. The problem was the dosage and the pooling of the gas / agent in the lower seats of the theater. The female bombers sat on the end of each row of seats blocking the exit routes of all hostages. These bombers had switches wired to them to detonate if they were moved or tampered with. All hostage takers had to be shot immediately upon entry to ensure no detonation would occur. Every bomber had to be shot and totally disabled at once. The reason for the death of many was due to having to carrying each victim out and hand them physically over the bombers in each row as well as carry them out. This led to delays in extraction, removal and increased exposure time to the concentrated gas which pooled in certain areas of the theater. Let's not forget the over-watch posts that were armed and ready to blow up the female bombers in the seats and armed with automatic weapons. Compounded by the Hostage Takers having a high ground post over looking the inside of theater and an exterior command post watching, evaluating actions of the responding forces and communicating with the interior group (this outside group was discovered by intercepts of phone and radio traffic late into the event) . This required multiple assault teams to simultaneously assault exterior targets and interior targets. Not to mention the hostage takers being hard wired and having command detonated devices in the seating area for the over-watch team to detonate when assaulters entered the location.

Think about the complexities of the situation and what your country would do when faced with this same event / crisis. The Russians are not constrained by political correctness, undue liability and the other things that would hamper us from acting in this manner or even having the tools to conduct such an operation. The Commander of the assault force and the assaulters prior to entry made a final toast and felt as if they were going to die because this was such a no win situation. Think about the many victims involved, the many well equipted terrorists and the overwhelming odds of all being killed due to the excellent planning, equipment and intelligence of the adversary. I challenge anyone to find another event so large, so dangerous, so complex and so overwhemling to a nation and successfully concluded. We are not talking about three or four hostage takers in an embassy, a building or some plane. We are discussing a large threater filled with hundreds victims and dozens of armed, ready and willing adversaries. Munich and or the Iran Embassy was a walk in the park by comparison. By the way that is exactly why I selected the Lima incident of the Japanese embassy as number 1 for the above reasons as well. "Desert One" if successful would have riveled this Op in my opinion. Results matter not attempts. Son-Tay was another excellent attempt.

aaronlow
04-17-2008, 06:22 PM
IMTT,
I am in no way criticizing the way in which the operation was carried out by the soldiers. In fact, I believe that they executed a difficult operation amazingly well. After the operation, I remember reading on CNN that the doctors were not told which agent and dosage was used or how to counteract it. This is why I have always thought so many people died who could have been saved - not because the operation was poorly carried out, but because of beauracracy. If this wasn't the case, then I'm wrong and thanks for informing me. I was amazed that more people were NOT killed during the assault and yes, I realize it was a death-trap.
Regards.

Britboy
04-17-2008, 07:30 PM
The Commander of the assault force and the assaulters prior to entry made a final toast and felt as if they were going to die because this was such a no win situation.

Nothing like a toasting glass of port necked down to steady the nerves.

Seriously though, what a horrible situation to be in. Hats off to the blokes who went and dealt with it. I think whatever happened, it must be one of the most impossible situations to have to deal with, and its a credit that any lives were saved when you look at what the odds must have been.

IMTT
04-17-2008, 08:35 PM
No doubt the Russians took a real beating in the press from this Op...and to some justifably. Lets look beyond what we have been told.

aaronlow,

Firstly I didn't take as you were critisizing them or the medical attention provided or planned for. I was under the impression from what I have been told that the victims were long died, couldn't be revived due to the length time exposed and size of the dosage inhaled. The agent concentration and dosage to incopasitate varies from person to person which made accurate and specific doses even more difficult as well as time sensitive. It is my understanding the agent, its effects and exact compound is still a state secert. Many have speculated it was FENTANYL an opiate based agent to the best of my knowledge no official description / name has every been released.


Britboy,

In reality they toasted with Vodka from what a person I know told me. Many of these men basically signed their lives off to make this entry and go into the building, attack the remote command post and assault the overwatch post because they were covinced they were died. Some of the information above was from this same associate of mine who was there. I was very critical of this incident and felt it very irresponsible of Russia to purposefully endanger and kill so many. After numerous discussions with my associate and a little study I gained a new apperciation of the persons and team involved. They acted with extreme valor, honor and courage.

This was one of the absolute worst hostage taking events I can think of for many, many reasons. Think of this 700 hostages and 50 armed and fully equipted terrorists with explosives willing to die. Communication with outside command post and inside overwatch. I have role played this scenerio in my head as to what to do and after many years I'm still at a loss for a feasible course of action. Key objective; save as many as possible.

Here's some links for mroe information;
http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/02110b.htm (http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/02110b.htm)
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1693003 (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1693003)
http://www.worldjustice.org/taj/theater.html (http://www.worldjustice.org/taj/theater.html)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/moscowtheatretrans.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/moscowtheatretrans.shtml)
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/23/russia.siege/index.html (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/23/russia.siege/index.html)

KaHn267,

Think about it; what would you have done? I sure don't know and I hope Im never forced to.

James
04-17-2008, 10:53 PM
A very common reaction for one who doesn't understand or grasp the entire situation. I would submit you need a further deeper understanding of the facts and an apperciation for the deminsions of this event. No these folks didn't "choke on thier tongues". I cannot think of another nation that could have pulled this off without all being killed.

Respectfully


"Desert One" if successful would have riveled this Op in my opinion. Results matter not attempts. Son-Tay was another excellent attempt.

Your opinions confuse me.

IMTT
04-18-2008, 08:40 AM
Jmes,

I should have said if "Desert One" was successful it would have been on the top of my list as the greatest. Desert one was an attempt that failed. Perhaps in retrospect "Entebbe" was the greatest if not the best. I perfer the Lima Peru incident for many reasons. Namely they started with no capibility to basically execute and developed this on the fly. I firmly believe few if any countries could have dealt with the theater incident without killing all hostages in the process. Look at the overwhelming threats and the complex situation. The gas was brilliant in my opinion. Perhaps you believe we could have dealt with this better but I greatly doubt it and it would in my opinion resulted in much more death.

Peris
04-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Jmes,

I should have said if "Desert One" was successful it would have been on the top of my list as the greatest. Desert one was an attempt that failed. .



some insisted the op to be executed after the chopper and c130 accident like gen Vaught but Beckwith who was the guy on the ground gave the abort. Some say even then could have been done.

IMTT
04-18-2008, 06:03 PM
Peris,

I would dispute this theory. Their capibility execute after the loss of the C130, the Sea Stallions and the personnel on the ground was in my opinion non-exsistant. Not to mention casvac, hostage transport and the mirad of logistical support required. To continue to march after this would in my opinion resulted in a total disaster far beyond what was experienced at the crash site. Not to mention a total and complete national disgrace.

Dominique
04-18-2008, 07:05 PM
Jmes,

I should have said if "Desert One" was successful it would have been on the top of my list as the greatest. Desert one was an attempt that failed. Perhaps in retrospect "Entebbe" was the greatest if not the best. I perfer the Lima Peru incident for many reasons. Namely they started with no capibility to basically execute and developed this on the fly.

IMTT, are you referring to the Peruvians, or the Russians when you say they had capability? And what type of capabilities are you referring to, as I know the Peruvians had been receiving CT training from several countries for years prior to the incident.

James
04-18-2008, 07:54 PM
How many people who posted in this thread have even served in the military? How are you qualified to judge what the "Greatest" special operation is?

In all honesty, it's probably something most of us have never heard of.

Dominique
04-18-2008, 09:23 PM
In all honesty, it's probably something most of us have never heard of.

I still say the greatest op was the use of the Trojan Horse to defeat Troy.

IMTT
04-19-2008, 03:36 AM
IMTT, are you referring to the Peruvians, or the Russians when you say they had capability? And what type of capabilities are you referring to, as I know the Peruvians had been receiving CT training from several countries for years prior to the incident.

Lets not forget their relationship with our SEALs that most feel their SEAL / UDT teams are an exact model of.

Correct you are and there was on going FID/UW as well as other support and training on going. But in the assessment of some our folks on the ground at the time no where close enough to conduct this mission with the level of expertise demonstrated. During the hostage crisis they undertook more advanced training and embarked on Physop to influence the hostage takers. They even produced informative TV blimps to show on the national stations that they knew was being montiored by the Terrorists. Of course there was some outside "friends" helping but this was a Peruvian Op and one they can be very proud of.

Namely their CT / DA skill sets combined with the Physop.

P.S. Good to hear from you

Violet Fashion by Mindy
04-19-2008, 05:19 AM
What the SASR did in the opening stages of the invasion of Iraq. 150 guys in LRRPV's kicking ass in the desert.

DesktopArmor
04-19-2008, 09:49 AM
Peris,

I would dispute this theory. Their capibility execute after the loss of the C130, the Sea Stallions and the personnel on the ground was in my opinion non-exsistant. Not to mention casvac, hostage transport and the mirad of logistical support required. To continue to march after this would in my opinion resulted in a total disaster far beyond what was experienced at the crash site. Not to mention a total and complete national disgrace.

I think what Peris means is that some thought the mission shouldn't have been completely called off, but instead moved back a night. There were more helos on the carriers, and the C-130 was replaceable. They could've just packed the Iranians from the bus into one of the C-130s for the day and brought them back to Oman. Then, they could've done the whole mission the next night, when the weather would probably have been better. Beckwith and others thought the Iranians would find out, and that they would be ambushed the next night. As it turned out, they had no clue of what/where it was until Carter announced it on TV.

IMTT
04-19-2008, 01:25 PM
Fair enough and well said but I believe Beckwith made the right call based on the cicumstances. I can assure you if I was one of the operators or directly involved I would have been all in for a second run at it. Of course this doesn't make it the correct course of action based on the target assessment, the percieved vunerability and the fragile ability at best to recoup if it went side ways.

meatrabbit
04-19-2008, 03:30 PM
My favourite one is the pebble island raid by the SAS on the falklands.

Lokos
04-19-2008, 03:31 PM
Wasn't that one a 1980s urban myth

Bob Woodward's book 'Veil' says otherwise.

Lokos

Ravage
04-19-2008, 05:12 PM
I'm no SOF expert but I still think Acid Gambit is that "one perfect op.".

James
04-19-2008, 05:12 PM
How about one of those recent OPs, where italian hostages have been freed from taliban hands in quite a darring SF raid, AFAIK last year.

Oh yeah! I think it was codenamed Paying the Ransom.

Very high speed. :roll:

cryz2
04-19-2008, 05:16 PM
My favourite one is the pebble island raid by the SAS on the falklands.


x 2 i am with you on that one

The Dane
04-19-2008, 05:28 PM
I like this little story.:)

The Nyadzonya Raid (Selous Scouts)
This raid was actually the first of the cross-border raids with a flying column. The Rhodesians dressed up as Frelimo and camouflaged themselves as Frelimo (the Mozambican army in whose territory the attack would take place). Frelimo were Mugabe's friends, and Mugabe's army, ZANLA knew that Frelimo were their allies. At times ZANLA and FRELIMO fought together.

The plan was to hit this base early in the morning when the Zanla guerillas were on parade. The Rhodesians drove into Mozambique by vehicle and had some home-made armoured cars which they had built from a West German design (without caring too much about the West German copyright!). On these vehicles they mounted machineguns and possibly even a 20mm cannon.

They had with them a soldier who could speak Portuguese who could masquerade as Frelimo.

The whites in the team blackened their faces. But their eyes and noses were to be their undoing. There were also some troops in small armoured cars, Ferrets as I recall - tiny 2 man armoured cars, who were stationed by a river. They anticipated the escape routes and were waiting to mow down Mugabe's fleeing troops if they went there.

They managed to successfully bluff their way past the guards into the camp and drove right on to the parade ground where thousands of Mugabe's troops were mustered. As they moved into position the Zanla guerillas actually ran up to their vehicles and crowded around them welcoming them because they thought they were Frelimo. But then one of the blacks must have seen the eyes and noses of the white soldiers with the blackened faces and they shouted "murungu!" (whites). Then the Rhodesians pulled the covers off their machine guns and fired into them. As it happened many did flee to the river and the other escape routes where they were mowed down.

According to Reid-Daly, the final death toll was 1,026 dead and most likely twice that number were wounded. The attack had been pulled off by 70 of our troops.

This was the first massive cross-border raid and it was hugely successful. In one short morning they had killed more enemy troops than they would in almost a year of fighting. From here onwards, many larger cross-border raids would follow.

Mugabe's lot of course claimed that Rhodesians had massacred women and children. Frelimo brought in bulldozers and bulldozed the corpses into graves. They brought in women and children from elsewhere and then called in the ever stupid UN who immediately agreed, without further examination of the dead bodies that Rhodesia had attacked a "refugee camp".

But in this piece they interview Edgar Tekere and another black Selous Scout on the matter.

I must admit, that although Edgar Tekere was on the enemy side, I really liked his approach to the whole war after the war. I like the way in this video he just comes out and states the facts clearly and admits it was a valid hit on one of their military camps and that it caught them by surprise. He is man enough to admit the truth about it to the point of saying, sort of, "Wow, how did you guys do that?" I like that in a man. That is how men fight each other - with a respect for what the other side pulls off. I like Tekere, not only on this occasion but others, where he came out and spoke directly. Now that's the kind of black man I could call a friend, and if he were my enemy, I'd respect him too. Very cool guy all round - very real - the way I like people to be. That's the kind of black man I would have no problem dealing with and supporting.

He is totally different to Mugabe who never ceases to seek an opportunity to spew his hatred and to invent new lies. He killed more blacks than anyone else, and in a more filthy mannner, but he never admits anything. He's a total asshole.

General John Hickman must have been filmed long after the war. Its the first time in a long time that I've heard him speak. Nice guy.

If anyone can grab this video off the web, I'd like to keep a copy. Its a very lovely piece. It ends with the playing of the Rhodesian anthem. The tune is actually Beethoven's 5th symphony - another one of those little carry-overs from our European heritage!!

Its great to see some more truth coming out on the Internet. Jan.

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=19571&

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e4_1179150328

Pete031
04-19-2008, 06:12 PM
OP Barras was pretty good.
SAS and Para's rescued those Irish Rangers in Sierra Leone.

IMTT
04-19-2008, 06:48 PM
James,

Nothing says success like a bag full of money. Just ask most kidnap victims in South and Central America. Of course the victims family negotiators are getting their pound of flesh and some even hedge their bets by working both sides. Kidnapper by night, negotiator by day…it's a growth industry. Just lovely!

Respectfully

Peris
04-20-2008, 06:44 PM
Peris,

I would dispute this theory. Their capibility execute after the loss of the C130, the Sea Stallions and the personnel on the ground was in my opinion non-exsistant. Not to mention casvac, hostage transport and the mirad of logistical support required. To continue to march after this would in my opinion resulted in a total disaster far beyond what was experienced at the crash site. Not to mention a total and complete national disgrace.


a correction, Gen Vaught wanted to go on not Kyle.

Macs.
04-20-2008, 08:13 PM
Probably not the "greatest" (<-If there is something like this, I guess all situations where the main goal (i.e. securing hostages) is reached is good enough) but a interesting operation involving the GSG-9.

A few years ago this happened in Aachen:

A man took 3 security guards as hostages and drove with them to the Federal Bank in Aachen, and tried to pass through to the money safe. It didn't work out and the kidnapper and his 3 hostages got stuck without reaching the safe. The situation became static.

After long negotiations, he let 2 of the 3 hostages go. He wanted a car and one million euro. So they parked a car ready infront of the bank for him.

As the hostage taker was leaving the bank, he was holding a grenade against the body of the hostage which also was modified with duct-tape, so it was "live" and ready to explode with one motion. A GSG-9 Sniper got the order, and took his chance and succeded in killing the hostage taker with one shot to the head, and without triggering the grenade.

A GSG-9 EOD-Specialist then closed in on the hostage which was still strapped to the dead kidnapper with the grenade pressed to his breast.

Because of that the deactivation of the grenade was very hard, since after being shot the kidnapper cramped his fingers. Still the EOD succeded to deactivate the grenade and ultimatly saving the life of the last hostage. (And his own !)

IMTT
04-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Wasn't the GSG9 involved in the resolution of a school hostage taking crisis several years back. The crisis was resolved through the introduction of a camera that concealed a gun and they shot the hostage taker in the face.

Holycrusader
04-21-2008, 06:52 AM
Polish GROM, Navy SEALs and Navy SWCCs took over two oil rigs MAABOT and KAAOT just as OIF began



Whats so great in special operation against undefended oil rigs?

Ravage
04-21-2008, 01:02 PM
If those two oil terminals werent taken (or worse, lost) Saddams men could have dumped A LOT of oil into the Persian Gulf.
I'm sure BMF_EOD has more infos on that.

Doe
04-21-2008, 02:14 PM
operaton Nimrod. SAS 1980 Iranian Embassy Siege in London.

little icebear
04-21-2008, 04:40 PM
Oh yeah! I think it was codenamed Paying the Ransom.

Very high speed. :roll:

I think he´s refering to the SBS raid in which two Italians where freed.

http://www.specialboatservice.co.uk/sbs-hostage-rescue.htm

Niels
04-21-2008, 06:11 PM
Simultaneous train hijack and school hostage taking, May 23 1977.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915035,00.html

Summary:
- 9 armed Moluccans pull the emergency brake and take 50 train passengers hostage
- 4 armed Moluccans take 105 children and 5 teachers hostage at a primary school

After days of negotiation and intelligence gathering, the decision to attack was made. Six F-104 Starfighter aircraft of the Royal Netherlands Air Force flew low over the train with afterburners roaring with the purpose of disorienting the hijackers and also make the hostages duck down to the floor of the train where they would be relatively safe.

BBE marines opened fire on the first class and in-between compartiments, blew out the doors and stormed the train. Within several minutes, the situation was under control. 6 hijackers were shot dead, the remaining 3 arrested. Unfortunately 1 hostage got caught in the crossfire and died.

At the same time, an attack on the school was made. An armoured vehicle and explosives punched a hole in the wall and marines entered the building. The Moluccans surrendered without fight after hearing about the military attack on the train.

James
04-21-2008, 07:17 PM
I think he´s refering to the SBS raid in which two Italians where freed.

Ah ok. I was thinking of the way others simply bend over as quickly as they can.

Eoin666
04-21-2008, 08:33 PM
another couple for you

Battle of Mirbat

The Battle of Mirbat took place during the 1970s Dhofar Rebellion in Oman which was supported by communist guerillas from South Yemen. Britain assisted the Oman government by sending elements of its Special Air Service to both train soldiers and compete against the PFLOAG guerillas for the "hearts and minds" of the Omani people.

At 6am on 19 July 1972 the PFLOAG retaliated against the British, sending 250 well-armed men against the isolated British Army Training Team (BATT) house near Mirbat (commanded by Captain Mike Kealy). Against overwhelming odds, the nine SAS soldiers stationed there resisted fiercely, holding the PFLOAG back for several hours until reinforcements could arrive. Defeated, the PFLOAG withdrew at about 12:30pm.

The 25 pounder gun, now known as the "Mirbat gun" which was used by Sergeant Talaiasi Labalaba (a Fijian SAS soldier) during the siege is now housed in the Firepower museum of the Royal Artillery at the former Woolwich Arsenal. Sgt Labalaba was killed in action. He displayed notable bravery by continuing to fire the 25 pounder in spite of being seriously wounded. Labalaba's actions helped to keep the insurgents pinned down until a relief force arrived. Labalaba was awarded a posthumous Mention in Dispatches for his actions in the Battle of Mirbat, although some of his former comrades have campaigned for him to be award a posthumous Victoria Cross.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Desert_song/Mirbat.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mirbat


Gran Sasso Raid:
Mussolini was being transported around Italy by his captors, whilst Otto Skorzeny, selected personally by Hitler and Ernst Kaltenbrunner to carry out the mission, was tracking him.

Intercepting a coded Italian radio message, Skorzeny used his own reconnaissance to determine that Mussolini was being imprisoned at Campo Imperatore Hotel, a ski resort at Campo Imperatore in Italy's Gran Sasso, high in the Apennine Mountains. On 12 September 1943, Skorzeny joined the team to rescue Mussolini in a high-risk glider mission. The commandos crashed their gliders into the nearby mountains, then overwhelmed Mussolini's captors without a single shot being fired. Skorzeny attacked the radio operator and his equipment, and formally greeted Mussolini with "Duce, the Führer has sent me to set you free!" to which Mussolini replied "I knew that my friend would not forsake me!" Mussolini was first flown from Campo Imperatore in a Luftwaffe Fieseler Fi 156 Storch liaison aircraft, then flown on to Vienna (where he stayed overnight at the Hotel Imperial) and given a hero's welcome.

The operation on the ground at Campo Imperatore was in fact led by Lieutenant Count Otto von Berlepsch, planned by Major Harald Mors and under orders from General Kurt Student, all Fallschirmjäger (German Air Force Paratroop) officers; but Skorzeny stewarded the Italian leader first into Rome and eventually into Berlin, right in front of the cameras. After a pro-SS propaganda coup at the behest of SS Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler and propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, Skorzeny was granted the majority of the credit for the operation.

Aftermath
The operation severely hampered Allied advances into Italy[citation needed], as well as granting a rare late-war public relations opportunity to Hermann Göring. Mussolini was returned to power again in the German-occupied portion of Italy (the Italian Social Republic). Otto Skorzeny gained a large amount of success from this mission; he received a promotion to Major, the award of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross and fame that led to his "most dangerous man in Europe" image.

Nazi propaganda hailed the operation for months, the Axis otherwise having little about which to boast in the fall of 1943. As it turned out, it was the last of Hitler's spectacular gambles to bear fruit.

PennyWise
04-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Eben-Emael comes to mind. 74 German Fallschirmjager beat 1,200 Belgians who were defending the "strongest fortress in the world". Many military colleges will tell you to forget about making unless you have at least a 3 to 1 advantage. The Germans where outnumbered roughly 12 to 1 but still came out on the winning side. It was a awesome victory and shows what a few but highly trained and well equiped operators can do against a much larger force.

The Germans lost their commander and 20% of its combat strength due to a mistake made by a pilot of the plane towing the glider they were in. It was up to the senior NCO a guy named Banzile (not sure how to spell his name) and his band of 74 Fallshirmjagers to overcome impossible odds. In the face of such a massive number of men and firepower they went forth showed the world some of the greatest small squad tacitcs ever and kicked serious ass.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-22-2008, 02:47 AM
Eben-Emael comes to mind. 74 German Fallschirmjager beat 1,200 Belgians who were defending the "strongest fortress in the world". Many military colleges will tell you to forget about making unless you have at least a 3 to 1 advantage. The Germans where outnumbered roughly 12 to 1 but still came out on the winning side. It was a awesome victory and shows what a few but highly trained and well equiped operators can do against a much larger force.

The Germans lost their commander and 20% of its combat strength due to a mistake made by a pilot of the plane towing the glider they were in. It was up to the senior NCO a guy named Banzile (not sure how to spell his name) and his band of 74 Fallshirmjagers to overcome impossible odds. In the face of such a massive number of men and firepower they went forth showed the world some of the greatest small squad tacitcs ever and kicked serious ass.

While it was a very well planned, daring and well executed op IIRC Belgium was a neutral country (i.e. not at war with Germany) at the time. I wonder if the Germans would have got away with it if the garrison had been properly alert. I guess it's a 'what if' we will never know the answer to.

PennyWise
04-22-2008, 03:41 AM
While it was a very well planned, daring and well executed op IIRC Belgium was a neutral country (i.e. not at war with Germany) at the time. I wonder if the Germans would have got away with it if the garrison had been properly alert. I guess it's a 'what if' we will never know the answer to.


Belgium was indeed neutral and caught with its pants down. One would think that the Belgians in the fortress would have to be somewhat alert. After all neutral Belgium was turning into a highway by the Germans in the last world war. I don't think mermories of the Schlieffen Plan had gone away. The planned defense for France was expecting the Wehrmacht to repeat the Schlieffen Plan, surely the Belgians considered that they might be dragged into the war against their will. I would be very interested in finding out about about how ready the troops themselves were just before the attack.

WWII is full of sucker punchs, Pearl Habor and Operation Barbarossa are two of them. And in both cases the defender was caught completely unprepared.

Tema69
04-22-2008, 08:00 AM
If those two oil terminals werent taken (or worse, lost) Saddams men could have dumped A LOT of oil into the Persian Gulf.
I'm sure BMF_EOD has more infos on that.
Yeah, like that was the only reason? Pollution?

Eoin666
04-22-2008, 08:19 AM
Belgium was indeed neutral and caught with its pants down. One would think that the Belgians in the fortress would have to be somewhat alert. After all neutral Belgium was turning into a highway by the Germans in the last world war. I don't think mermories of the Schlieffen Plan had gone away. The planned defense for France was expecting the Wehrmacht to repeat the Schlieffen Plan, surely the Belgians considered that they might be dragged into the war against their will. I would be very interested in finding out about about how ready the troops themselves were just before the attack.

WWII is full of sucker punchs, Pearl Habor and Operation Barbarossa are two of them. And in both cases the defender was caught completely unprepared.

My mate used to be a guide at Eben Emael, impressive place even now, the German para's used specially developed shaped charges to take out the armoured gun cupolas. I think it was the role model for parachute tactics of aggression, surprise and speed......which were further epitomised later in the war by other para forces.

IMTT
04-22-2008, 08:32 AM
Eben Emael is text book and a classic example of innovative thinking, excellent planning combined with "Speed, surprise and violence of action". In every case listed without question had the element of surpise not been present it is highly unlikely or nearly impossible the attacking or raiding force would have been successful. The attacking SPECOP force whomever they maybe worked within the reactionary time window of the opponent or if you like the organizational OODA loop.

Holycrusader
04-22-2008, 09:15 AM
If those two oil terminals werent taken (or worse, lost) Saddams men could have dumped A LOT of oil into the Persian Gulf.
I'm sure BMF_EOD has more infos on that.

Those termiinals were undefended. Taking them was necessary step, no doubt about that. But there is nothing great in taking undefended oil rig...

Loke-Gao-Zhu
04-26-2008, 01:37 PM
Hi, I've heard that there was one German special operation of assassinating Churchill with the Waffen SS during WW2. Was that really a planned operation or a rumor / myth?

I've heard it when I was small...wanna search it on the internet but found none

wicked_hind
04-26-2008, 02:00 PM
I gotta say that the Son Tay Raid was significant.

http://www.sontayraider.com/history.htm

Britboy
04-26-2008, 02:06 PM
Hi, I've heard that there was one German special operation of assassinating Churchill with the Waffen SS during WW2. Was that really a planned operation or a rumor / myth?

I've heard it when I was small...wanna search it on the internet but found none

I think it was actually a crappy film called 'The Eagle Has Landed' that I got for Christmas as a lad...

Putting German troops into the most heavily militarily-built-up area ever (Southern England was one massive camp for D-Day!)?? And expecting them to be able to get to such a high value target?

If there would be an assassination attempt I'd go with spies to be honest. But due to the effectiveness of the Double Cross system, the Abwehr was being fed disinformation by their 'agents' in the UK. Getting a decent scrap of information (apart from that included intentionally to enhance credibility whilst being too late for them to act upon, a la D Day warning) was going to be nigh impossible, let alone them being in a position to pop off the big man!

Regards
BB

Rudolph
04-26-2008, 10:05 PM
Obviously not the greatest operation, but to tie in with the above:

Sidney Robey Leibbrandt (25 January (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_25) 1913 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913)-1 August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_1) 1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966)) was a South African (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African) Boer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer) of German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_people) and Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people) descent who was an Olympic boxer and later an Abwehr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abwehr) member and fifth columnist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column) for Nazi Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany).

Following the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Leibbrandt returned to Berlin in 1938 to study at the Reich Academy for Gymnastics, and stayed on when war broke out. He joined the German Army, where he became the first South African to be trained as a paratrooper.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt#cite_note-milhist1-3)

Admiral Wilhelm Canaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris) ordered Operation Weissdorn, a plan for a coup d'etat to overthrow the government of General Jan Smuts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Smuts), who had led South Africa into the Second World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World_War) on the side of the Allies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II). In June 1941, under the code name Walter Kempf, Leibbrandt was dropped on the Namaqualand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaqualand) coast north of Cape Town (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town) by a confiscated french sailboat under command of Abwehr asset Lieutenant "S"[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt#cite_note-4)Christian Nissen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Nissen) aka Hein Mück, the Kyloe. He formed the Nasionaal Sosialistiese Rebelle drumming up support through fiery speeches and political campaigning, while secretly training members in bomb making.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt#cite_note-leibbrandtarchive-5). He also made contact with another pro-German movement, the Ossewabrandwag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossewabrandwag), but the leader, Johannes Van Rensburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Van_Rensburg), was unsympathetic [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt#cite_note-bunting-6).

After a confrontation, he went on the run and evaded the police for some time[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt#cite_note-milhist2-7), until he was eventually betrayed and captured, the arresting officer was Claude Sterley, a fellow Springbok Boxer who was, at the time a Sergeant in the South African Police. In 1943 he was sentenced to death for high treason. Although Leibbrandt refused to give evidence at any stage in the trial, he claimed that he had acted "for Volk and Führer" and gave the Nazi salute when he first entered the court, to which several spectators responded. After being sentenced to death Liebbrandt shouted loudly and clearly "I greet death".

His sentence was commuted to life imprisonment by General Smuts on 11 March (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_11) 1943 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943). In 1948, Leibbrandt was released in an amnesty of war offenders by the newly victorious Nationalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_%28South_Africa%29) government, which had opposed South Africa's entry into the war on the side of the Allies.

There's a book and movie too, "The Fourth Reich."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robey_Leibbrandt