Sen. Rockefeller: McCain (and Military Pilots) Don't Care About People

[Zoomie]

Obama-Backing Senator Attacks McCain's War Experience

April 08, 2008 1:11 PM
In the Charleston Gazette Sunday (http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200804070734), Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-WV, who has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said that Sen. John McCain "has a temper" and, according to the story, "believes McCain has become insensitive to many human issues.

"McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."

A McCain campaign surrogate, Marine Lt. Col. Orson Swindle (Ret.), said that "Senator Rockefeller's statement is an insult to all the men and women who are serving or have served in America's military. Had Senator Rockefeller served himself, he would appreciate and understand that most who have been to war emerge with a much deeper concern for humanity than they otherwise might. If he knew what he was talking about, he would know that John McCain wasn't dropping laser-guided missiles at 35,000 feet in 1967. Barack Obama has a responsibility to denounce Senator Rockefeller's smear against John McCain's character and military record. The question remains: Does Senator Obama have the courage to stand up and hold himself to the principles of 'new politics' he outlined in his book, "The Audacity of Hope?"
Source (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-backing-s.html)
It must be nice to be a armchair general.
Also, here's a wee bit of a problem with this ignorant ass of a Senator - McCain was a POW when the first LGBs were being dropped.

[noname]

Senator rockafellar should go back to doing what he does best. Eating ****s. These congressional members are nothing but a huge group of overgrown children.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Go and dig that Demwit grave and pay out a little more rope to hang the party with Mr. Rockefeller, please…

[Laworkerbee]

It must be nice to be a armchair general.
Also, here's a wee bit of a problem with this ignorant ass of a Senator - McCain was a POW when the first LGBs were being dropped.

Plus I believe McCain flew the A4 Skyhawk, a jet not equipped to drop LGB's ever.

[Merfeller]

Ah yes, the Rockefeller name is synonymous with "caring for people." That family is full of average Joes alright.

[bd popeye]

Senator rockafellar should go back to doing what he does best. Eating ****s. These congressional members are nothing but a huge group of overgrown children.

I agree ..except the eating part..:roll:

Sen Rockefeller is typical of many Dumb-o-crats..err Democrats. They know nothing of the military..Not a friggin' clue. On top of that they have little or no respect for the military.

Ole Sen. Rockefeller, sez..


"McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."


Sen Rockefeller, sounds to me, a 20 year US Navy veteran, that you think attack and fighter pilots are heartless.

In case you forgot Sen McCain was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 by SAM missiles. He piloted an A-4 Sky Hawk. Trust me on this ..A-4s did not have Laser Guided Bombs at that time..:roll: We(the US) did have the old Walleye Tv guided bombs.

Those "Scotter" A-4 pilots hadda drop "dumb bombs" into the teeth of the enemy. Those bombs were dropped at a much lower level that 35,000 feet. Much lower. Look it up.

I hear by nominate Sen Rockefeler for "Dumb Arse of the Week"

[Zoomie]

Plus I believe McCain flew the A4 Skyhawk, a jet not equipped to drop LGB's ever.
Yes, you are correct about him being an A4 pilot, but the A-4E (same model as McCain's) did carry (http://www.skyhawk.org/8e/weaps-data/a4e-usmc-weaps.htm) the Mk 1 MOD 0 (Walleye), the predecessor of the AGM-62 Walleye guided bomb, but that currently at the time was only TV guided. It wasn't until 27 April 1972, while McCain was still a POW, that the first LGB variant of the Walleye was used in Vietnam.

Besides, I doubt Skyhawks were conducting high-flying raids over Hanoi. I'm also sure that the Wild Weasel pilots out there would like to have a few choice words with Rockefeller.

[Laworkerbee]

If I'm not mistaken the first LGB's were dropped on a bridge (sounds like "High Fong" ) by F4 D models ?

Too lazy to Google :)

[Laconian]

What a completely stupid thing to say. The people of West "By God" Virginia should give him a piece of their collective minds and send him packing next time he runs. The Amercian Legions and Veteran's of Foreign Wars Chapters in his state should petition him to retract the statement.

[Zoomie]

If I'm not mistaken the first LGB's were dropped on a bridge (sounds like "High Fong" ) by F4 D models ?

Too lazy to Google :)
It was the Thanh Hoa Bridge in 1972, which indeed was attacked by F-4s, which managed to damage the west end of it. But the Navy thought why not destroy it completely, so they sent some A4s a week later and hit the bridge causing it to sink in the river. Though I can't find what weapons were used, but I'm assuming the Walleyes were used on the A4s.

[Laworkerbee]

Thanks Zoomie

I was trying to find out how many F-105's were lost trying to take out that bridge, while I didn't find the info for that I did find this which was interesting none the less. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanh_Hoa_Bridge

[Zoomie]

Thanks Zoomie

I was trying to find out how many F-105's were lost trying to take out that bridge, while I didn't find the info for that I did find this which was interesting none the less. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanh_Hoa_Bridge
No problem, it feels good to actually used what I learned in my Vietnam War class! p-) As for how many aircraft were shot down, the US ballparked it at over a hundred due to the AA network in the vicinity of the bridge and the outlaying regions. Which assuming that based on the info from the F-4 raid which sent 14 aircraft to attack the bridge, and there was ~870 documented missions against the bridge, that roughly works out 1 plane shot down for every 110 that attacked it.

Ooook, and we're getting off topic now, I guess we should continue this discussion in the Military Topics area?

[Laworkerbee]

It seems worthy of it's own thread.

[California Joe]

What a douchebag. What a complete and utter douchebag.

But I hardly think douchebaggery among politicians that never served in the military is unique to the Democrats.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I hear by nominate Sen Rockefeler for "Dumb Arse of the Week"

I second the motion!

[AmericanDude04]

The motion has been passed moron of the week and maybe the year, or maybe second after Rev. Wright.

[WKD]

Ah yes, the Rockefeller name is synonymous with "caring for people." That family is full of average Joes alright.

Hahaha, this is what I was about to say. Billionaires are known for their sharing caring personas.

[vryhpyammoadded]

If any of you others here have shared a few moments with Vietnam POW’s like I have, I know several. You’d know that this whole “he’s got a temper” and “uncaring” thing is just plain stupid. Every single one of these men I’ve met has come across calm, relaxed, considerate and cerebral to extreme’s in a really careful sort of way. This includes McCain. I’ve always wondered if it were a common trait developed from the terrible experiences during captivity.

I’d trust McCain to do the well thought out, right thing, over Obama or Hildabeast every time but also worry that he could hesitate to act should a quick, difficult decision be needed. I believe bold leadership will be a necessity in the near future but not in the philosophic flavor of Obama or Hildabeast. I don’t think McCain has it in him but I’m sure as hell not going to vote for Hilldabeast care or Obama’s wealth redistribution economic suicide.

[gobdav]

Did you guys see Rock's response when he had to apologize? He said something like "I deeply respect McCain's military service." lol, umm, I see a contradiction here.

[Hilbert]

Did you guys see Rock's response when he had to apologize? He said something like "I deeply respect McCain's military service." lol, umm, I see a contradiction here.

Yeah, that's typical behavior among politicians; hypocrites.

[gobdav]

Yeah, that's typical behavior among politicians; hypocrites.


True, but what I saw was a foaming at the mouth politician speaking on something he has no knowledge of (yet again) just to get the public in a tizzy while smearing someone who is a much better man than he. What is sad is that there are many people among his political affiliation who believe the same thing he does, which makes me wonder just how practical these people think in regards to the world around them.

[Mackie]

A stupid speech by Mr Jay Rockefeller.
But singing "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" by an US presidential candidate, seems to be more stupid and "insensitive" ^^

[gobdav]

A stupid speech by Mr Jay Rockefeller.
But singing "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" by an US presidential candidate, seems to be more stupid and "insensitive" ^^


Did you watch that "speech" that McCain made, or listen to excerpts on the news? I find it hard for anyone to take that seriously if they had watched the whole conversation.

[socom6]

LOL Rockefeller said something that some foreign n00b member in this forum would have posted, and be awarded the dumbarse of the week title.

Seriously Rockefeller needs to get a grip.

[Mackie]

Did you watch that "speech" that McCain made, or listen to excerpts on the news? I find it hard for anyone to take that seriously if they had watched the whole conversation.

I know that speech. But that doesn't excuse McCains "Song".
Imagine the FOX headlines if Putin would sing about bombing the US. p-)

[gobdav]

I know that speech. But that doesn't excuse McCains "Song".
Imagine the FOX headlines if Putin would sing about bombing the US. p-)

No one would really care because stuff like that is said all the time. If you can't "excuse" something and put it in context, then you're no better than some group with an agenda and in fact, you're perpetuating a false representation of another person. I wonder if you scrutinize everyone around you this much. It would be hard to make friends if so.

[Winger]

What a douchebag. What a complete and utter douchebag.

But I hardly think douchebaggery among politicians that never served in the military is unique to the Democrats.

It's par for the course on both sides.

[Xfire1prod]

It's par for the course on both sides.


It is too clear that Obama is surrounding
himself with ignorant, insensitive, military-hating people!:bash:

[Firetxmi]

While I do not agree with Rockefellers comments about the military, I do want to touch on the temper thing... This isn't exactly a new issue:

From 1999:


McCain's Temper May Become an Issue

By Scott Thomsen
Associated Press Writer
Sunday, Oct. 31, 1999; 6:38 p.m. EST

PHOENIX –– While rising in the GOP presidential polls, Sen. John McCain is facing questions about what some Arizona political leaders view as his quick temper – and whether it might hinder him as president.

In a front page article and separate editorial Sunday, The Arizona Republic said it wanted the nation to know about the "volcanic" temper McCain has unleashed on several top state officials.

Those who have been on the receiving end of a McCain uproar include Republican Gov. Jane Hull, former Republican Gov. Rose Mofford and former Democratic Mayor Paul Johnson of Phoenix.

Mrs. Hull, a supporter of GOP presidential front-runner George W. Bush, has acknowledged that her relationship with McCain has been cool and told an interviewer recently McCain "has to keep control" of his temper.

A Hull spokesman, Francie Noyes, said Sunday the governor had no further comment on the matter of McCain's temperament and that "she wants to move on to other things."

But the Arizona Republic, which endorsed McCain for each of his five congressional races but has not yet made an endorsement in the presidential race, was direct.

It declared in an editorial:

"If McCain is truly a serious contender for the presidency, it is time the rest of the nation learned about the John McCain we know in Arizona. There is also reason to seriously question whether he has the temperament, and the political approach and skills, we want in the next president of the United States."

McCain spokesman Dan Schnur said the criticism reflects McCain's emergence as a serious contender, resulting media scrutiny, and the fact that the former Vietnam POW "is a fighter and has always been a fighter."

"When a candidate moves up in the polls as quickly as John McCain has there's bound to be closer media scrutiny," Schnur said. "Show me a politician who's never offended anyone and I'll show you a politician who's pretty useless to his constituents."

Earlier in the week, McCain blamed the Bush campaign for helping plant recent temper stories and said the "hothead" portrayal was inaccurate.

"Do I insult anybody or fly off the handle or anything like that? No, I don't," insisted McCain.

Pam Johnson, executive editor of The Republic, said her paper's coverage decisions were made independently, not at the suggestion of anyone in the Bush campaign.

"A lot of the admirable qualities of Sen. McCain have been widely reported nationally. A lot of the temperament issues have not," said Johnson, who is in charge of the paper's editorial and news pages.

Even some of McCain's supporters acknowledge a short fuse, but say that should not disqualify him to be president.

"I think John McCain is as steady as they come. I've seen him get really passionate about issues, but I don't see it as losing control," said Rep. Matt Salmon, R-Ariz. He called McCain's passion refreshing.

State Superintendent Lisa Graham Keegan, who also is a McCain supporter, said she has argued heatedly with McCain many times over the years but that his "passion ... is positive."

"I'm not looking for someone who serves tea in white gloves. That's not attractive in a president," said Keegan, describing McCain as a calm, affable person, but one ready to jump into a fray.

In the past week, the Wall Street Journal and New York Times also have published articles documenting McCain's often testy relationships in his home state.

Mrs. Hull told the Times that McCain's temper "is something that John has to keep control of." According to the Times, when Mrs. Hull was asked to describe McCain's temper she pretended to hold a telephone receiver several inches from her ear.

In Washington, McCain has kept his temper under control, publicly at least. He showed restraint during Senate floor debate on campaign finance reform – one of his priority issues – when Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., tried to goad him into losing his temper.

Larry Sabato, a political science professor the University of Virginia, said McCain's temper is a legitimate subject for questions, but noted a number of president have had fiery tempers.

Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon were famous for having bad tempers. Since his election, current President Bill Clinton has become known for having one also.

"It's not disqualifying because so many presidents have had bad tempers, but it's important to know about," Sabato said. "You want to know what the fundamental character of a candidate for president is."

McCain's temper could be presented in a good light or bad, Sabato said. Supporters can say McCain listens to the people not politicians, while critics may charge that he can't work with others, he said.

Link:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm

More for entertainment value because of the headline:


Book: McCain temper boiled over in '92 tirade, called wife a 'cun*'

Link: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html

[Firetxmi]

April 9, 2008
West Virginia Senator Apologizes for Comments on McCain
By KATE PHILLIPS

Senator John D. Rockefeller IV personally apologized to Senator John McCain of Arizona on Tuesday after remarking in an interview that Mr. McCain’s years as a Navy fighter pilot would not have given him an understanding of everyday issues faced by Americans.

In an interview in his home state, West Virginia, on Monday, Mr. Rockefeller, a Democrat, told The Charleston Gazette that Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, could not relate to the everyday concerns of people on issues like health care.

According to the article, Mr. Rockefeller said: “McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they get to the ground? He doesn’t know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues.”

On Tuesday, the McCain campaign demanded an apology, not just from Senator Rockefeller, but also from Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, because he has received the West Virginian’s endorsement.

“I have deep respect for John McCain’s honorable and noble service to our country,” Mr. Rockefeller said in a statement. “I made an inaccurate and wrong analogy and I have extended my sincere apology to him. While we differ a great deal on policy issues, I profoundly respect and appreciate his dedication to our country, and I regret my very poor choice of words.”

Later in the day, Mr. Rockefeller’s office issued an updated statement, saying Mr. McCain had graciously accepted the apology and the two had sat together privately during a vote in the Senate in the afternoon.

The Obama campaign also issued a statement: “Senator Obama has a deep respect for Senator McCain’s service to this country and he does not agree with what Senator Rockefeller said.”

In the Gazette article, Mr. Rockefeller explained his decision to endorse Mr. Obama, praising his communication skills while taking swipes at previous nominees.

In the past, Mr. Rockefeller said, the Democratic Party “nominated people like Al Gore and John Kerry who knew all the answers to everything and who could not relate to regular people. That is the main reason a lot of people voted for Bush. People said, ‘I could have a beer with this guy.’ ”

“Obama is simply unflappable. He takes questions carefully and makes you a believer,” he said, adding that his whole family is united behind Mr. Obama, unlike any candidate before.

According to a partial transcript of the interview provided by Mr. Rockefeller’s office, Mr. Rockefeller was asked about reports of Mr. McCain’s temper.

Mr. Rockefeller said they had been on the Commerce Committee together for 16 years. “He does have a temper,” he said. “Out on the trail, everything’s sort of been monotone.”

“I don’t think that will survive the general election,” he added.

Link:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/us/politics/09apology.html?_r=1&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[Laworkerbee]

Bill Clinton has quite a temper as well; isn't that what Chiefs of staff and handlers are for anyway, to sooth out the anger?

[hank]

Bill Clinton has quite a temper as well; isn't that what Chiefs of staff and handlers are for anyway, to sooth out the anger?

That and to provide cigars.

hank

[California Joe]

I heard Grover Cleveland was a mean drunk.

[Buckeye67]

I heard Grover Cleveland was a mean drunk.

Yes, but he could whip up a kickass batch of General Tso's.

[gobdav]

Hey, Washington had a temper as well. At least we know how McCain feels about fellow politicians :)