Obama on small-town voters: Bitter, xenophobic, religious

[Jeremiah]

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

[Hollis]

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html


I wonder what he says about rural folks?

[JJC]

Wait a second Obama's favorite pastor is a nut job and he is refusing to let go of the church, but small town people are bad for "clinging on to religion"? Obama is proving himself to be a pompous asshat who thinks he knows all the right answers.

[eskachig]

Problem is, he's right. Small-town America is dying and it's a damn shame.

[Hollis]

Problem is, he's right. Small-town America is dying and it's a damn shame.


Maybe you need to leave Portland and drive around the small towns in Oregon. I live by, Independence, Monmouth and Dallas they are all growing pretty darn fast.

[eskachig]

Maybe you need to leave Portland and drive around the small towns in Oregon. I live by, Independence, Monmouth and Dallas they are all growing pretty darn fast.I live in San Francisco actually. But back in college when I owned the stereotypical camper van I was fond of long cross-country road trips, and much preferred small towns and nature to cities. Away from the coasts most small towns that I've come across are stagnating, with few jobs and opportunities. The young people leave and never come back, and only the old and the incompetent are left. And it's all really sad because small American towns are a beautiful and disappearing way of life.

[Gat0r]

It is true in Kansas, the small towns are getting smaller, less and less children are taking over their parents farms and such. I live in a town of about 17,000 or so, not a real small town , but not a lot going on for a young single guy like me, enrollment in the school district here has been declining over the years, safe to say after I graduate from KSU in a couple years I wont be coming back.

[JJC]

It is true in Kansas, the small towns are getting smaller, less and less children are taking over their parents farms and such. I live in a town of about 17,000 or so, not a real small town , but not a lot going on for a young single guy like me, enrollment in the school district here has been declining over the years, safe to say I wont be living here when I finish college.

But is he also right on this? " And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

[Aerosoul]

I think it's plausible that he is.

[Hollis]

I guess it depends on what you want. For a while those who were self employed and had a job where location did not matter, mover to the rural environments. The big cities have been drawing people from the country side/small towns for 100 plus years.

As I mentioned where I live some small communities are doing well and growing. Partially because of people who commute, some industries are moving to small areas. Part of survival is the independent spirit, I think that is part of the problem.

[Hellfish]

Maybe you need to leave Portland and drive around the small towns in Oregon. I live by, Independence, Monmouth and Dallas they are all growing pretty darn fast.

Out of pure curiosity... how are they growing? Telecommuters? People from even smaller towns? Mexicans? Commuters?

[Buckeye67]

If it's anything like the Cincinnati area, once rural areas like Butler and Warren County are now going through a pretty massive boom. People are leaving the suckhole that is the City of Cincinnati to escape taxes, ****ty schools and crime. Once rural areas in Northern Kentucky are experience similar, though not as rapid, growth.

So Obama's a lefty-elitist snob. Who'da thunk it.

(This story is a good example of why we still need the Electoral College, by the way)

[Merfeller]

What he's saying about Pennsylvania actually sounds a lot like Illinois. Too bad he was never a state legislator there otherwise he could have done something. Oh wait...

[Hollis]

Out of pure curiosity... how are they growing? Telecommuters? People from even smaller towns? Mexicans? Commuters?

One thing is the new housing, lots of it. Some new business. Independence had a large cabinet manufacturer move in. Some is Commuters, Salem is near by. Schools are growing too. We don't have that much in the way of migrants. The area did in the 30's. Towns are not that big.

[Gat0r]

But is he also right on this? " And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Well I'm not into religion but we have a crap load of churches in this town, I love my guns and illegal immigration pisses me off, this town is pretty wealthy lots of industry, pharmasutical plant, large refinery, jobs are staying put so bitter hmm I wouldnt say so in this town, but then again I dont hang out at the VFW on bingo night, young people arent staying in this town though.

[I can't think of a name]

http://www.zombietime.com/obama_visits_billionaires_row/

That was the event he said it at. In front of a wealthy San Francisco crowd.

Also, talk about areas that are in decline. The Chicago has some declining areas.

[I can't think of a name]

The AP is already covering for him

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080412/ap_on_el_pr/obama_bitter_voters

Notice they don't even cite the original quote, they cite his response to the controversy and omit the religious angle.

[IraGlacialis]

What a complete asshat. If anything, most, if not all, small towns I have been to are quite welcoming. And I definately can say that because of my status as a minority.
And they are a hell of a lot more welcoming than the city.

I wouldn't be surprised if he though that rural folk were like those from Deliverance.
"I'm gonna make you squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!"



Problem is, he's right. Small-town America is dying and it's a damn shame.
Maybe you need to leave Portland and drive around the small towns in Oregon. I live by, Independence, Monmouth and Dallas they are all growing pretty darn fast.
I just think it is simply where you are. Big factor for the death of a small town are amenities in a nearby and larger town, environmental shifts, and shifts in transportation routes.

I notice that towns that are near big cities tend to be more likely to die or lose their charm.
Towns that are on important routes or are near attractions are the ones that tend to do the best.

For a while, my home town of Harrisonville was dying a slow death. Mainly from a feud between the city council and this guy who liked to to keep buying up and demolishing property. Add Wal-Mart and other chains which killed a few of the mom-and-pop places. Now the city square is practically dead.
Fortunately the town is begining to recover and develop quite rapidly. But it probably lost quite a bit of the small-town feel (except for the town-wide school spirit).

On the other hand, there is a small town called St. James near my university. Everytime I go through there to go to the nearby spring, I can't help but feel a small-town vibe.
You guys are seeing it on a bad day.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3014/img2626hy3.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4225/img2627zs0.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php)
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7294/img2628ev9.jpg

[JKD]

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
I've never been to Ohio or Pennsylvania but I know plenty about small towns in New Mexico and west Texas and I've met my fair share of people who cling to guns, religion, have antipathy towards people who aren't like them, etc. Hell, he just described my late grandfather. I know big city people who fit that description as well. And small town folks who don't fit that description at all. You find all different types all over the place.

[Surf City]

I guess his elitist side won over his liberal side. A true liberal would never :roll: generalize a whole group of people like that but an elitist surely would!

At least Hildebeast is right about one thing when she said,"Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them."

Looks like the "crazy uncle" Reverend Wright was a bigger influence on Obama than he cares to admit! IMHO, he seems out of touch with that type of condescending attitude (later repeating his remarks during a speech in Indiana) and hopefully it comes back to bite him in the ass!!!!
:bash:

[Hollis]

The 80's was terrible for a lot of areas, small town, parts of big cities. I guess he must have missed that period. The Boon for small towns died in the 60's and they kept slidding downwards till the late 70's.

Surf City that's a good point; "At least Hildebeast is right about one thing when she said,"Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them."

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Just noticed in todays FT that there has been a big swing away from the Republicans in Pennsylania with 4.2 million registered Democrats and 3.2 million Republicans.

[cbreedon]

I am guessing that people are just registering Demo so they can vote in the primary since the Republican contest is over. People in Washington do that all the time. The general election is another story.

[I can't think of a name]

Just noticed in todays FT that there has been a big swing away from the Republicans in Pennsylania with 4.2 million registered Democrats and 3.2 million Republicans.

Yet the polls have McCain stronger in Penn then Bush every was. If McCain gets Penn and Ohio the election is over. Many Hillary Democrats will vote for him over Obama.

I don't know a bout what "swing" you are talking about. Penn has traditionally been a Democrat stronghold. A lot of Republicans are registering as Dems to vote in their primary, not that they want to vote for either of them in November.

[Mackie]

Does McCain still announce his plans to attack Iran? Or was this an mistake in the past?

[Hollis]

Does McCain still announce his plans to attack Iran? Or was this an mistake in the past?


Lets see can you produce a a site where he says that (you can PM it, rather than be off topic or open another thread on it). The one I read said, "Republican presidential candidates Rudy Giuliani and Sen. John McCain
said Tuesday they would be prepared as president to use military force against Iran to prevent it from getting nuclear weapons."


Next time stay on topic, and besure your reading comprehension is not lacking.

[Power_serj]

Name-calling is hardly exceptable when arguing against a political opponent. It's NEVER acceptable to name call the people you want to vote for you! I even find this offensive, and I'm living in Florida. We're all Americans, you name call one, you name call all. Obama is a douche.

[IraGlacialis]

I wonder what he says about rural folks?
Now that I think about it, your area shouldn't have any problem.
It is Midwestern and Pennsylvanian townfolk, who are supposed to be all bitter, gun-toting, religious xenophobes.
Oregon, being on the west side, is fine... for now.

Now, if you excuse me, I need to get back to shooting outsiders in the name of God.

[Hollis]

Now, if you excuse me, I need to get back to shooting outsiders in the name of God.


need any help, I have extra ammo.

[IraGlacialis]

need any help, I have extra ammo.
All help needed in this here hoooly crusade against the horde det took er jeeeobs. The Divine Hand shall guide er hands n bullets. HALLELUJAH!!

*with mouth is filled with chew, broken beer bottles strewn in the foreground, and waving the Bible in one hand & a bolt-action in the other*

[Hollis]

All help needed in this here hoooly crusade against the horde det took er jeeeobs. The Divine Hand shall guide er hands n bullets. HALLELUJAH!!

*with mouth is filled with chew, broken beer bottles strewn in the foreground, and waving the Bible in one hand & a bolt-action in the other*


Amen Brother, Preach it.

[IraGlacialis]

I am betting that this is Obama's view of small-town and rural America (barring the fact that the guy pictured was an abolitionist).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/John_Brown_Painting.JPG

[Bombtrack]

Name-calling is hardly exceptable when arguing against a political opponent. It's NEVER acceptable to name call the people you want to vote for you! I even find this offensive, and I'm living in Florida. We're all Americans, you name call one, you name call all. Obama is a douche.

So I guess that makes all Americans douches?

[noname]

Quite a few are.p-)

[joe mama]

I, Barack Obama, as a proud liberal democrat, believe in freedom. Well, unless that means freedom to like rfiles that look scary and handguns, or unless it means freedom to have conservative religous beliefs, or unless it means freedom to think things that aren't politically correct. So, yes, I believe in the freedom of the people...the freedom to agree with me.

0123456789

[Firetxmi]

Go to rural Michigan. The economy is horrible. I hear people going nuts about "them damn Mexicans and illegals" yet they have barely seen either before. There is a correlation between a failing economy, loss of jobs and anti- many things (immigration- both legal and illegal, etc). Of course they cling to the only things they have left, religion, the right to bear arms (sometimes the only way to eat for families I have encountered), etc.

Are people bitter- you bet. And they are not bitter towards one political party, they are bitter at both for they feel that both have failed them. Both have promised jobs and to fix the economy next year, and the next, and the next, and the next. They have never really delivered though. It is sad. It was the first time that I have ever seen elementary schools closed and kids bused to towns 30 or 40 miles away so they could attend a school.

[Geezah]

I live in San Francisco actually. But back in college when I owned the stereotypical camper van I was fond of long cross-country road trips, and much preferred small towns and nature to cities. Away from the coasts most small towns that I've come across are stagnating, with few jobs and opportunities. The young people leave and never come back, and only the old and the incompetent are left. And it's all really sad because small American towns are a beautiful and disappearing way of life.

That's about as far as I got on your post.

[Bombtrack]

Wow, that's very intellectual.

[Parx400]

Problem is, he's right. Small-town America is dying and it's a damn shame.


WRONG, Small Union Towns are Dying. A right to work State like Texas is growing right now even though the rest of the country is in a slow down. Might I ad you did not see Obama or Clinton Pushing the Anti NAFTA crap in Texas. Texas has made alot of money from that deal. Other states need to get with the program and put an end to the Unions. If not shut up and live with your out dated Idea of Jobs. Thye are not comming back.

[Parx400]

Go to rural Michigan. The economy is horrible. I hear people going nuts about "them damn Mexicans and illegals" yet they have barely seen either before. There is a correlation between a failing economy, loss of jobs and anti- many things (immigration- both legal and illegal, etc). Of course they cling to the only things they have left, religion, the right to bear arms (sometimes the only way to eat for families I have encountered), etc.

Are people bitter- you bet. And they are not bitter towards one political party, they are bitter at both for they feel that both have failed them. Both have promised jobs and to fix the economy next year, and the next, and the next, and the next. They have never really delivered though. It is sad. It was the first time that I have ever seen elementary schools closed and kids bused to towns 30 or 40 miles away so they could attend a school.


Immigrants Dont really Stay in areas with no JObs or money. why would they leave a bad job area for another bad job area? MICH is its own problem. They have some of the highest Bussiness tax rates in the country and complain that Mexico China and Canada of all places take away jobs. Unions PLus High taxes = NO JOBS. But what do you expect when you have Democrats that drink from the UNION water bowl incharge. Bill Clinton knew that Taxes and Uions = no second term. This is why He signed Nafta and lowered cap gains down to 20% from 28%. Bush only Lowered them to 15%.

[Hollis]

Immigrants Dont really Stay in areas with no JObs or money. why would they leave a bad job area for another bad job area? MICH is its own problem. They have some of the highest Bussiness tax rates in the country and complain that Mexico China and Canada of all places take away jobs. Unions PLus High taxes = NO JOBS. But what do you expect when you have Democrats that drink from the UNION water bowl incharge. Bill Clinton knew that Taxes and Uions = no second term. This is why He signed Nafta and lowered cap gains down to 20% from 28%. Bush only Lowered them to 15%.


Good points, I think the immagration issue is used to conceal the actual real problems, like you just mentioned. I don't necessary blame Unions either, well in Oregon they are pretty weak. When a issue becomes a political "hot potato", the last thing one will see is the truth if at all.

[Surf City]

Go to rural Michigan. The economy is horrible. I hear people going nuts about "them damn Mexicans and illegals" yet they have barely seen either before. There is a correlation between a failing economy, loss of jobs and anti- many things (immigration- both legal and illegal, etc). Of course they cling to the only things they have left, religion, the right to bear arms (sometimes the only way to eat for families I have encountered), etc.

That's not true. I grew up in the Holland/Zeeland area in Michigan and there were plenty of Mexicans (both legal and illegal). The illegals b/c of the abundant number of cheap agricultural jobs available, for example blueberry farms.

Holland itself has a latino/hispanic population of 22%, Ottawa county 8% and Michigan overall 4% (courtesy U.S. Census Bureau latest poll year 2000).

Close friends of my parents owned a blueberry farm where my brothers and I worked during the summers when we were kids. I personally saw lots of Mexicans, Southern and Central Americans as well as Cambodians, Vietnamese and Laotians.

My high school in Michigan had at least 25% Mexican/Hispanic student body. I'm of Asian decent and 99% of the time the Anglos never made me feel unwelcome or were racist towards me or my family. If anything, I had more run ins (at least 4 fights growing up) with Mexicans being racist towards me.

From my personal experience, your characterization of minorities in Michigan being as rare as the proverbial henstooth is untrue.

[Firetxmi]

That's not true. I grew up in the Holland/Zeeland area in Michigan and there were plenty of Mexicans (both legal and illegal). The illegals b/c of the abundant number of cheap agricultural jobs available, for example blueberry farms.

Holland itself has a latino/hispanic population of 22%, Ottawa county 8% and Michigan overall 4% (courtesy U.S. Census Bureau latest poll year 2000).

Close friends of my parents owned a blueberry farm where my brothers and I worked during the summers when we were kids. I personally saw lots of Mexicans, Southern and Central Americans as well as Cambodians, Vietnamese and Laotians.

My high school in Michigan had at least 25% Mexican/Hispanic student body. I'm of Asian decent and 99% of the time the Anglos never made me feel unwelcome or were racist towards me or my family. If anything, I had more run ins (at least 4 fights growing up) with Mexicans being racist towards me.

From my personal experience, your characterization of minorities in Michigan being as rare as the proverbial henstooth is untrue.

Come to the Upper Peninsula and tell me how many people of Hispanic origin you see. I used to hear people railing against Hispanics daily, yet in the whole time I lived there I saw maybe 2 people who were hispanic, and they didn't live there permanently. And my guess, although not proven, is that they were legal citizens.

As for the post above by Parx about unions, I agree with you. But that only further proves my point. The bitterness and clinging to things is misplaced. Instead of being bitter and clinging to material objects one needs to look at the real solutions to the problem.

[Parx400]

Good points, I think the immagration issue is used to conceal the actual real problems, like you just mentioned. I don't necessary blame Unions either, well in Oregon they are pretty weak. When a issue becomes a political "hot potato", the last thing one will see is the truth if at all.


Whats funny is the Blame Immagration game is spreading to Highly educated ones as well. The dems now want to lower the amount of visas that companys can get to bring in High educated workers. The reason is always that they steal jobs from American workers. Bill Gats figures that for every PHD or MAsters Level Immagrant he brings in to MS creates 5 other jobs that go to Americans. As he said if The gov here wont let me bring them in then i will just do the work in Canada and the job creation will go there. Canada has started letting anyone with a high education get a work Visa.

[Surf City]

Come to the Upper Peninsula and tell me how many people of Hispanic origin you see. I used to hear people railing against Hispanics daily, yet in the whole time I lived there I saw maybe 2 people who were hispanic, and they didn't live there permanently. And my guess, although not proven, is that they were legal citizens.

As for the post above by Parx about unions, I agree with you. But that only further proves my point. The bitterness and clinging to things is misplaced. Instead of being bitter and clinging to material objects one needs to look at the real solutions to the problem.

Does the UP even have a population and is it even a part of Michigan?p-)

I grew up in Michigan and that's what I was speaking to......personal experience. Granted I rarely ever travelled to the UP and when I did it was sparsely populated.

When you originally posted it said Michigan and I think when most people think of Michigan they're thinking of the "glove" not the thinking about the "overhang". The glove is where the greater "bitter" population resides. It's like saying trends in Siberia is representative of Russia as a whole.

[Firetxmi]

While I see where you are coming from, I will point out that the U.P. is the epitome of rural America and the whole U.P. has a population of roughly 317,000. Holland alone has a population of roughly 33,000.


According to the 2000 census, only 91,624 people live in the twelve towns of at least 4,000 people, covering 96.5 square miles (155.365 km²). Only 114,544 people live in the twenty-one towns of at least 2,000 or more people, which cover 123.7 square miles (320.4 km²)—less than 1% of the peninsula's land area.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_peninsula#Demographics

For example, the largest city (pop. wise) in the Upper Peninsula is Marquette with a Hispanic population of a whopping %0.77. Sault Ste. Marie (the second largest city by pop.) has a Hispanic population of %1.86 for a town of 16,000.

Why is there so much outrage then about "those darn foreigners?"

I would call that misplaced bitterness, as the chances of living in either one of those towns and having your life or job taken by an illegal is minuscule.

[Dragunov]

I once lived in a small town in Missouri. And that town was depressing. There wasn't a lot to do, other than driving around with your buddies or drinking beer. Anyway, jobs were scarce, there was around 3 small companies where the majority of the people worked at, but recently they all closed. The only jobs are at the grocery store and some motel, or 30 minutes away. People now are living that town, the only ones left are mostly old timers/farmers.

[Hollis]

This issue has been going on for as long as I can remember. I don't think this is the worse period for Small towns in our history. Maybe google Small town associations in the early '80s. Also a lot of problem with large cities in the "older" parts where being abandoned. 1979, the recession was on. Home loans went from 8% to something like 28%.