Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slur

[I can't think of a name]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080415/people_nm/france_bardot_muslims_dc

I guess you cannot say anything in France. News to me that you can get sent to prison for this stuff.

[Bongopete]

Not BeBe!!!! No. What is coming to France???

[Martial]

Ridiculous!

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Go Bridgette go.

[Bongopete]

Perhaps she should unleash the puppies!

[hell]

That's pretty interesting to see what's happening to someone in a different country when they say something slanderous against the Islamic religion; only about a month ago we had a woman who is a State Rep. go on an "anti-gay, anti-Islam" rant that was recorded and posted on the web, making national news in the US. Not only has she not had any sort of charges pressed against her, she hasn't been taken to civil court, and she's still in office, unpunished.

It's odd to see just how different the outcome is for someone in a different country doing essentially the same thing. Mrs. Bardot could probably have run for the Senate in my state after those remarks (if she was a legal resident for the required nine years anyway).

[Createdeemcee]

Damn, France is a hole in terms of Law.

[Bongopete]

What is really going on overthere in France anyway??

[phoebus]

She insulted some poeple OK, but I gather this "muslim-protectionism" is getting significant proportions concerning freedom of speech.. :roll:

[Mordoror]

it does not concern muslim protectionnism (at least i hope not)
We have laws and rules that can punish any comments which are anti-whatever minority : anti-jews, anti-black, anti-muslim........
These rules are against racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia


Hope it would have be the same if she had some anti-jew words

Now concerning the international context it can be seen as a reduction of freedom of speech over islam however i do not think so (but of course i may be wrong)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Well I hardly think this is a surprise to her, since it's her 5th time up on the same charges.

[dacanadianbomb]

She is obviously a veteran at pissing people off.

[seraosha]

She's hawt.

[phoebus]

it does not concern muslim protectionnism (at least i hope not)

Strictly speaking, everybody knows it's not protectionism, but there's a trend in Europe towards such a direction. Same here, I hope not.


She's hawt.

I bet you're one of the old-school guys, I myself have seen her in some films and I tend to agree. p-)

[Bongopete]

Strictly speaking, everybody knows it's not protectionism, but there's a trend in Europe towards such a direction. Same here, I hope not.

Which direction is that?

[phoebus]

Which direction is that?

Being overprotective towards minorities, especially on issues connected with freedom of expression.

[Bongopete]

I think if the minority is a militant one, yes.

[phoebus]

I think if the minority is a militant one, yes.

So you're saying that just because they're militant it should be considered proper to "try and not offend them, because they may loose it..." ? [didn't quite understand your thesis] I beleive it's them that need to get used to some critisism and that should apply in general. If it is individual freedom that we champion here in Europe, then we'll need to make religions (in general) accept and swallow a bit of it, even if that could be received as an insult.

edit: point taken Bongopete

[Bongopete]

No, Im saying that they may be trying to placate them because they are militant and dont want them to go on and burn things more than cars.

[phoebus]

No, Im saying that they may be trying to placate them because they are militant and dont want them to go on and burn things more than cars.

Roger that. I am afraid that is the situation.. :-(

[Mordoror]

depends of who is talking
our French president is not known to be a sugar tongue
Do not think that it will be the case with Berlusconi
Do not know for the others .................

[Bongopete]

depends of who is talking
our French president is not known to be a sugar tongue
Do not think that it will be the case with Berlusconi
Do not know for the others .................


I hope not. We shall see. It certainly wasnt the case when Algerians were protesting in Paris I think it was back in the early 60s.

[Mordoror]

It certainly wasnt the case when Algerians were protesting in Paris I think it was back in the early 60s.

it was not the same situation
We were at war (or internal police operation as you wish) in Algeria. The protests were partly organized by the FLN and needed a strong reaction (slighlty too strong as numerous civilians were killed during these protests in the 1960s)
Concerning the current issue we had 2 years back several weeks of heavy riots in our "banlieues" but the police and gendarmerie acted very well
No dead for any side where it could have be bloody
And hundred were arrested for trials so ........

[Bongopete]

I stand corrected. I thought that this was after the 'problems' with Algeria and that those rioting were French Algerians who came to France rather than stay in Algeria and get killed.

[Lambert58]

I've always wondered where people get the idea that not being offended is a right.

[Calanen]

That's pretty interesting to see what's happening to someone in a different country when they say something slanderous against the Islamic religion; only about a month ago we had a woman who is a State Rep. go on an "anti-gay, anti-Islam" rant that was recorded and posted on the web, making national news in the US. Not only has she not had any sort of charges pressed against her, she hasn't been taken to civil court, and she's still in office, unpunished.

.

The US has freedom of speech, and it is one of the free countries (despite belief to the contrary) that does so.

[FlankerFlyer]

What race are Muslims again? This is the fourth time that Bardot, that recidivist, has been fined for inciting racial hatred -- this time for statements in her book A Scream In the Silence. From ******* (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5181642/):

In the book, she laments the “Islamization of France” and the “underground and dangerous infiltration of Islam.” “Mme. Bardot presents Muslims as barbaric and cruel invaders, responsible for terrorist acts and eager to dominate the French to the extent of wanting to exterminate them,” the court said.
France’s 5-million-member Muslim community is the largest in Europe.
Bardot, who was not present for the verdict, denied the charges in a tearful court appearance last month, saying her book did not target Islam or people from North Africa.
OK, so I guess it's racism to hold to anything less than the dogma that all Muslims in France are peaceful and law-abiding, and accept wholly the principles of Western secularism. No Muslims in France want to institute Sharia there, I suppose. But can someone explain to me what is supposed to happen when all the aging *** sirens have been silenced, and some Muslims start working in France to bring about the hegemony of Sharia? I guess we all just have to look the other way and let them go about their business. To do otherwise would be racist.

[vinny_121_ND]

What makes France an attractive country for muslims to go to? France has one of the toughest anti terrorism laws in the world. Is it the welfare system?

[khukuri]

Bardot has previously said France is being invaded by sheep-slaughtering Muslims and published a book attacking gays, immigrants and the unemployed, in which she also lamented the "Islamisation of France."

Interesting how a former controversial *** icon so suddenly becomes a goody-goody conservative.


IF anyone would have made similar comments about jews the outcome would have been the same.

[IraGlacialis]

If anyone would have made similar comments about jews the outcome would have been the same.
Actually, I am surprised that she hasn't gone after Jews either.
For meat to be Kosher, the creaure has to be slaughtered while it is still alive, just like Halal meat.

If you notice, whe originally went after Islam mainly because of the methods they use to butcher meat, not because of miltancy. The later comments are another story.
I hate PC as much as the rest of you, but I think that she is just a book-seller who makes these comments on purpose to piss people off.

[Chimera]

Interesting how a former controversial *** icon so suddenly becomes a goody-goody conservative.

She has actually always been very very racist and conservative. She had (and still has) ties with Jean-Marie Le Pen, they met in the 60s' or something..

[KET]

Prosecutors asked that the Paris court hand the 73-year-old former *** symbol a two-month suspended prison sentence and fine her 15,000 euros ($23,760) for saying the Muslim community was "destroying our country and imposing its acts."
They just proved her point.

[ren0312]

What makes France an attractive country for muslims to go to? France has one of the toughest anti terrorism laws in the world. Is it the welfare system?

France is not actually being swamped by immigrants if you look at the statistics, its net migration rate per 1,000 people is only a tenth that of Canada's, the same goes for Belgium and Sweden also.

[FlankerFlyer]

France is not actually being swamped by immigrants if you look at the statistics, its net migration rate per 1,000 people is only a tenth that of Canada's, the same goes for Belgium and Sweden also.

In France, Muslims already have many smaller states within the state. Criminologist Lucienne Bui Trong (http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire200409300813.asp) wrote that: “From 106 hot points in 1991, we went to 818 sensitive areas in 1999.” The term she used, “sensitive areas,” was used to describe Muslim no-go zones where anything representing a Western institution (post office truck, firemen, even mail order delivery firms) was routinely ambushed with Molotov cocktails. The number was 818 in 2002, when the French government decided to stop collecting the statistics.


In some of these areas, the phenomenon of gang rape (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/13/60minutes/main617270.shtml) “has become banal.” Violence against and pressure on women is part of daily life in the suburbs (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/11/violence-part-of-life-for-girls-in.html), where boys can dictate how girls should dress. Pressure is mounting for Muslim women to wear veils. In 2002, a 17-year-old girl was set alight by an 18-year-old boy as his friends stood by. The support group “Ni Putes, Ni Soumises” (“Neither Whores nor Submissives”) says the number of forced marriages has risen in recent years, with roughly 70,000 girls pressured into unwanted relationships each year in France. A leaked study (http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/moonbatcentral/2005/05/french-schools-lurch-toward.html) conducted between October 2003 and May 2004 under the auspices of France’s inspector-general of education, Jean Pierre Obin, described an educational system (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004723.php) where Muslim students regularly boycotted classes that concerned Voltaire, Rousseau and Moliere, whom the students accused of being anti-Islamic. Orbin’s report cited Muslim students’ refusal to use the “plus” sign in mathematics because it looks like a crucifix; Muslims boycotting class trips to churches, cathedrals and monasteries; and forcing wholesale changes in school lunch fare to accommodate their religious practices.
The influence of radical Islamist groups is a growing threat to French business (http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20051012-024505-8190r), too, a leading intelligence expert warned, citing the discovery of secret prayer-rooms at the Disneyland theme-park outside Paris. A report commissioned by several retail and courier companies stated that the Islamists’ strategy is to “take control of Muslims within the workforce” and then “challenge the rules in order to impose Islamic values.” French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008831.php) that the riots in 2005 were rather “well organized.” Caroline Glick (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008902.php) of the Jerusalem Post noted that some Muslim leaders explained that what they wanted was autonomy in their ghettos: “They seek to receive extraterritorial status from the French government, meaning that they will set their own rules based, one can assume, on Sharia law. If the French government accepts the notion of communal autonomy, France will cease to be a functioning state.” Following three weeks of unrest, the police said 98 vehicles torched in one day
marked a “return to a normal situationeverywhere in France.” Some of the rioters left boasting messages on various Internet forums. “We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be
in the majority here.” One observer stated: “In France, the majority of young Muslims believe that French society is dying, committing suicide. More like 10 percent to 20 percent of them believe that they are in the process of replacing European civilization with an Islamic one.” In the southern city of Marseille, Muslims make up at least a quarter (http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=31407&name=Marseille+breaks+deadlock+over+Great+Mosque) of the population, and rising fast.


The French website 5 Years Later (http://5-yearslater.com/index.php/2008/03/17/2124-lieux-de-culte-mususlman-en-france) has posted maps that illustrate the advance of Islam in France. I’ve taken the latest one from 2008 showing through shades of green the areas of implantation of the religion of peace and tolerance. The numbers on the map are those of the departments and have nothing to do with numbers of Muslims. The chart at the bottom runs from fewer than 5 to more than 30 mosques, prayer rooms or meeting houses. So we see that, in the southwest, department 33 has more than 30 while department 40 has fewer than 5. For a complete list of all places of Islamic worship in France, click the link above. Even if you don’t know French you will find the listing impressive.
You will note also the inset in the upper left showing Paris (75) and its three surrounding suburbs. The name for that whole region is Ile-de-France, but someone has chosen to emend it to Êl-de-France.

[FlankerFlyer]

Actually, I am surprised that she hasn't gone after Jews either.
For meat to be Kosher, the creaure has to be slaughtered while it is still alive, just like Halal meat.

If you notice, whe originally went after Islam mainly because of the methods they use to butcher meat, not because of miltancy. The later comments are another story.
I hate PC as much as the rest of you, but I think that she is just a book-seller who makes these comments on purpose to piss people off.

This is where Mahatma Gandhi ’s observation applies:“Freedom isn’t worth having if it does not connote the freedom to err.”
Millions of Muslims have constructed for themselves a version of Islam that reconciles a veneration for the Prophet and the Quran with an acceptance of more enlightened values of pluralism and tolerance. To them it may come as a shock to see that not everyone shares their views. But that kind of shock therapy is a healthy thing.

[Telmar]

...Bardot has previously said France is being invaded by sheep-slaughtering Muslims and published a book attacking gays, immigrants and the unemployed, in which she also lamented the "Islamisation of France."


BB is not going out in style. Sad to see.

[FlankerFlyer]

it does not concern muslim protectionnism (at least i hope not)
We have laws and rules that can punish any comments which are anti-whatever minority : anti-jews, anti-black, anti-muslim........
These rules are against racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia


Hope it would have be the same if she had some anti-jew words

Now concerning the international context it can be seen as a reduction of freedom of speech over islam however i do not think so (but of course i may be wrong)

France is not alone in celebrating herself for passing progressive junk law.Modern democracies are replete with progressive laws that contravene fundamental liberties (e.g., the curtailment of religious expression (http://www.senat.fr/leg/pjl03-209.html)), that are based on nonfactual notions (e.g., the Kyoto Treaty (http://unfccc.int/resource/convkp.html)), or that do not express the will of the majority but the pet biases of minorities of betters (e.g., campaign finance reform (http://www.citizen.org/congress/campaign/legislation/bcralaw/articles.cfm?ID=10798)).

But France is our topic and comes to our attention because of her pretensions. There is this gem:
International experts met Wednesday in Paris to tackle the tricky task of fighting anti-Semitic, racist and xenophobic propaganda on the Internet -- seen as a chief factor in a rise in hate crime. "Our responsibility is to underline that by its own characteristics -- notably, immediacy and anonymity -- the Internet has seduced the networks of intolerance," French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said in opening remarks at the two-day conference.
France, which is spearheading the effort, has faced a surge in anti-Semitic violence in the last two years. Some fault the growth of Internet use among hate groups.
Robert Badinter, a former French justice minister, said that of 4,000 "racist sites" counted worldwide in 2002, some 2,500 were based in the United States
And yet it is in France where anti-Semitism egregiously manifests itself in the West. M. Badinter’s selective statistic is rather meaningless as two years ago server capacity made America the majority provider for almost every site category.
Of course no one has a clue what thin air M. Badinter has pulled his funny numbers from, nor exactly what qualifies a site for censure as “racist” by M. Badinter. No doubt he included this one (http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/). And this one (http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/index.html). And of course this one (http://www.pavefrance.com/blog/), too. Because political thought that is not M. Badinter’s political thought is racist thought.


Progressives believe they have only to knock together fabulous legislation and -- poof! -- no more racism, no more anti-Semitism.

But laws are no protection against thoughts, they can only proscribe and penalize acts.


Which brings us to item two another presumptuous French project. Jack, in the person of his Minister of Justice, Dominique Perben, announced his government’s intention to criminalize homophobic and sexist speech. Well, France will certainly be a quieter place the day after this law is passed. If not for the inviolable freedom to calumniate America, France might go dead quiet.

First in the docket for hate crimes? It’s Jack & co.:
The bill enters the process of ratification just after the centre-right government took steps to punish a mayor - the Green party politician Noel Mamere (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1241320,00.html) - who earlier this month performed France's first ever gay marriage ceremony.That seems to fall within the law’s discrimination provision:
The bill, which will go before parliament next month, will make "incitement to discrimination, hatred or violence against a person on the basis of gender or ****** orientation" punishable by a year in prison and a EUR 45,000 (USD 54,000) fine. [Emphasis added.] It puts sexist and homophobic remarks on the same criminal level as words encouraging racism or anti-Semitism.
Ah, but not all hate speech is equal and France’s feminists (http://www.chiennesdegarde.org/article.php3?id_article=323) are squabbling over insult primacy. Why they ask should "tarlouze" trump “salope” in criminal penalties? Why indeed.
President Jacques Chirac said he hoped the law would "bring to an abrupt end these very serious acts."
Oh yes, that should do it. Why, this 1990 law (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/texteconsolide/PJEBB.htm) has made racism and anti-Semitism nonexistent in France.


The question to our French correspondents is this: How defective is French law that the dignity of the human person does not obtain for all classes of people without minorities seeking remedies in special legislation?



I note that in France hate speech is prosecuted and fined but not commercially enjoined. If you are willing to pay the state for your opinions then you are free to peddle them about.

Mdm. Bardot was ALREADY fined €5,000 (http://bellaciao.org/fr/article.php3?id_article=7409) for inciting racial hatred in her book, Un cri dans le silence, a sort of Dr. Doolittle (http://www.gutenberg.net/etext98/vdrdl10.txt) meets Jean-Marie Le Pen (http://www.pavefrance.com/blog/archives/Un%20cri%20dans%20le%20silence) worldview. Jack's expanded hate speech law will have la BB back in the docket for referring to homo******s as "phénomènes de foire" in her book. Apparently strong meat in France. Elsewhere la BB laments the many "filthy, badly dressed and badly shaven" people cluttering up France. No doubt, offended bums will now petition the state for redress.

The book remains available at Amazon.fr (http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2268047253/402-1334822-5228102). Certainly this is odd. If the court has found that la BB's book incites racial hatred in some real and concrete way, shouldn't there be an injunction against its dissemination because of the dangers of its real and concrete powers? Or perhaps in truth la BB's book is factually flimsy and insulting but is not inciting anyone to anything. What France looks to want to prohibit is insulting speech, not some dark notion of hate speech. It is hard to determine which of the two is the greater folly.

[vinny_121_ND]

no go zones, that's something I've heard of, but never seen.

[Bongopete]

So what else has she done other than say what she has? I mean other than say what she was thinking, has she funded some anti muslim program or something?

[muck]

She insulted some poeple OK, but I gather this "muslim-protectionism" is getting significant proportions concerning freedom of speech.. :roll:
No, I think these laws have a legitimation. But what I don't understand is - hate speech laws apply for everyone, right? Why do European countries forbidd their citizens to make rants about Muslims, but allow believers of this religion to threaten Europe with destruction and violence? I can't get these images out of my head of the maybe five years old boy sitting on the shoulders of his father and carrying a sign that reads "Don't worry Europe, your 9/11 is on its way"...

[Bongopete]

No, I think these laws have a legitimation. But what I don't understand is - hate speech laws apply for everyone, right? Why do European countries forbidd their citizens to make rants about Muslims, but allow believers of this religion to threaten Europe with destruction and violence? I can't get these images out of my head of the maybe five years old boy sitting on the shoulders of his father and carrying a sign that reads "Don't worry Europe, your 9/11 is on its way"...


Exactly...if its going to apply to one group then it needs to apply to all.

[Mat_fr]

No, I think these laws have a legitimation. But what I don't understand is - hate speech laws apply for everyone, right? Why do European countries forbidd their citizens to make rants about Muslims, but allow believers of this religion to threaten Europe with destruction and violence? I can't get these images out of my head of the maybe five years old boy sitting on the shoulders of his father and carrying a sign that reads "Don't worry Europe, your 9/11 is on its way"...


does it took place in France ? Cause if it was in Gaza, we can't do anything..

Anyway, of course i agree with you, but i don't think that this kind of discrimination (hate speech laws applied for some people only) is made in France.

mat

[phoebus]

I can't get these images out of my head of the maybe five years old boy sitting on the shoulders of his father and carrying a sign that reads "Don't worry Europe, your 9/11 is on its way"...

I remember one of those in UK, but not in France.

[Afro-European]

No, I think these laws have a legitimation. But what I don't understand is - hate speech laws apply for everyone, right? Why do European countries forbidd their citizens to make rants about Muslims, but allow believers of this religion to threaten Europe with destruction and violence? I can't get these images out of my head of the maybe five years old boy sitting on the shoulders of his father and carrying a sign that reads "Don't worry Europe, your 9/11 is on its way"...

Two words: Self-discrimination.

[Itamajus]

IMO Everyone who identifies himself as being a black, jew, white, yellow, arab *put any color/race*. is a racist[.b]

[I can't think of a name]

What defines free speech in France?


Also,
Where are the Bardot pictures?