Chinese torch attendants face arrest (Australia)

[Toddy1]

Chinese torch attendants face arrest


April 16, 2008 09:09am



Chinese officials warned not to get involved
Police to be given new powers for relay

CHINESE paramilitary officers would be arrested if they "laid a hand" on anybody during the Canberra leg of the Olympic torch relay, organisers said today.

Ted Quinlan, chairman of the Canberra relay taskforce, said the so-called torch attendants would have no responsibility for security during the Canberra run next week.
"The answer is no they won't and, in fact, they could be subject to arrest in fact if they laid a hand on somebody," he said on ABC radio today.

Federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland said security would be the responsibility of the Australian Federal Police.
"The only role that they - the Chinese officials - will play will be to light the torch should it be extinguished and that will be the sole role that they will play in these events," Mr McClelland said on ABC radio.
The army was not expected to play a role in security.
"There are very strict and limited circumstances involving, for instance, a catastrophic terrorist event that is on the capacity of a state to deal with. In no way, shape or form will this be of that category," Mr McClelland said.
Federal police would be given new powers to deal with any attempts to disrupt the relay, ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope said.
Police would be able to stop and search people along the relay route and ban them from carrying "prohibited items" including "balls, eggs, paint bombs and any similar item that is likely to be used as a projectile".
The federal police had asked for the increased powers.
"The police powers provide, just for this day, enhanced powers of search and they do prohibit the taking into a designated area certain offensive weapons and certain materials," Mr Stanhope said on ABC radio.
Prohibited materials included items that "police would have a reasonable belief would be used to disrupt the torch relay" such as fire extinguishers, buckets of water and balloons filled with paint.
Also banned are glass items, smoke bombs, petrol and other dangerous goods, balls and eggs.
The declaration was being made under the Major Events Security Act 2000, introduced in the ACT at the time of the Sydney Olympic Games.

[Chulo]

what if someone attacks them first? self defense?

[T3ngu]

No no no, Australians are peaceful.

The chinese would have provoked them by being near the Torch.

[Toddy1]

They do specify "they could be subject to arrest"

The stupid thing is that now the protestors know this and will probably make a bee line straight for them in the hope of getting to sue someone

[T3ngu]

They do specify "they could be subject to arrest"

The stupid thing is that now the protestors know this and will probably make a bee line straight for them in the hope of getting to sue someone

I remember years ago, the "socialists" at uni would go out of their way to target certain people, normally female security guards at rallys they held, which resulted in them getting arrested and crying assualt. Bloody bum grubs they were.

[Toddy1]

Therein lies the whole problem with the protestors today....they protest everything, half of them do not know what they are there for they just like being idiots...here's hoping it is the TRG :) they have been spoiling for a dust up since APEC went off very quietly

[Ordie]

The Beijing 2008 torch and event is like sh-t for flies for anyone who disagrees with China's policies. They should've anticipated this seven years ago.

[clean]

Smoke/Petrol bombs? Banned? Where are my rights?!?!?

[delio]

WTF? There was a thread some days ago with link to reports the Australian government wasn't even going to allow them in?

[Toddy1]

probably bowing to pressure from Bejing Rudd

[ocean]

So potential protestors will know this time it's free for all.

[Toddy1]

So potential protestors will know this time it's free for all.

That's the Australian ma for you mate, the Cronulla riots a few years back were greatly increased by the media hyping it up....one journalist who I knew was actually hoping a third plane would crash somewhere in USA after September 11 just so he would have something to write about, it took three guys holding me back to stop me smashing him in the face....scum mate they are scum.

[T3ngu]

WTF? There was a thread some days ago with link to reports the Australian government wasn't even going to allow them in?

Dont think they can stop them entering if they meet visa requirements, walking with the torch is another thing.

Hopefully it will be peaceful, with **** people, like the sydney 2000 torch relay where an official photo was published with some naked blokes standing on a roof in the background.

[T3ngu]

Police have been given increased powers to search crowds including protesters for dangerous items such as knives, paint bombs and fire extinguishers when the Beijing Olympic Torch arrives in Canberra next week.

The heightened security comes as chaotic pro-Tibet demonstrations follow the torch relay around the globe, with protesters in London trying to snatch and snuff out the flame.
On April 24, the Australian Federal Police will have "additional powers to prevent potentially dangerous items from being brought into the area of the torch relay, to search people for these items and to seize such items," the ACT Attorney-General Simon Corbell said today.
The list of dangerous goods includes "firearms except those carried by police", glass items, cans, balls, eggs, paint bombs and any item "likely to be used as a fire retardant". Firefighter crews are exempt.

The 20-kilometre relay route takes in prominent Canberra attractions such as Parliament House and the Australian War Memorial. With the timing of the relay just a day before Anzac Day, the chairman of the ACT Torch Relay Organising Committee Ted Quinlan has urged restraint.
Mr Quinlan was embarrassed into making a correction yesterday after the International Olympic Committee said Chinese authorities might be called upon to help Australian security forces maintain order.

"With respect, Mr [Kevan] Gosper has got it wrong," Mr Quinlan said. "All security for the Olympic Torch relay leg in Canberra will be delivered by the Australian Federal Police."
Police are expecting large groups of protesters from Sydney and Melbourne to join the ACT Tibetan community in demonstrations against Chinese human rights abuses.
Other groups, such as the Social Alliance are also planning protests.

AAP reports: Pro-China protest organiser Zhang Rongan said those supporting the torch relay had been asked to stay away from Tibetan protesters.

"We know more than 4000-5000 people will come here. We just hope those people will come here peacefully to show their views, to support the Olympic Games," Mr Zhang told ABC Radio.
Mr Zhang said it would be best if police could keep Australian Chinese and Tibetan protesters apart.
He said there were no plans for Chinese supporters to run along with the torch.
"If we do that, that means the Tibetans will also do that," he said.
The increased police powers have been declared under the Major Events Security Act 2000, which was introduced for the Sydney Olympics. http://www.smh.com.au/news/beijing2008/torch-protesters-warned/2008/04/16/1208025249706.html

[Eztyga]

Funny how they always give the fuzz more powers for these events, and then quietly, oh so quietly, never revoke those powers.

[vinny_121_ND]

Well it's a compromise. No chinese torch bodyguards, and if any protestor steps over the line by a finger nail, they'll be arrested and charged.

[clean]

Funny how they always give the fuzz more powers for these events, and then quietly, oh so quietly, never revoke those powers.

Can you take the tinfoil hat off when you sleep? Or is that considered too risky?

[Calanen]

WTF? There was a thread some days ago with link to reports the Australian government wasn't even going to allow them in?

They were always going to let them in. Just not let them be part of security. We also said, we were not going to let the PLA do security. The Chinese will have no role to play in security, merely, the handling and re-lighting of the torch, if it goes out.

[Calanen]

Funny how they always give the fuzz more powers for these events, and then quietly, oh so quietly, never revoke those powers.

The powers are declared for particular events only, and so expire once the event expires. Although, it can be, re-declared for the next event.

[Kilgor]

Funny how they always give the fuzz more powers for these events, and then quietly, oh so quietly, never revoke those powers.

FYI, the extraordinary powers granted for APEC were valid for apec only.

[Bohemoth]

They forgot to ban Heat-Seeking Missiles and David Coppperfield.:)

[Ordie]

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is thick skinned towards outsiders, thin skinned towards the Chinese. Any attempt by outsiders to compromise China's global face, challenges the legitimacy of the CCP governance.

Therefore the CCP has been active in motivating overseas Chinese (especially students) to support its country to placate the Chinese at home, even to the detrement of China's image abroad.

The CCP attempts to regain China's global face before its people will only hurt China more than aid it.

[EatenByRats]

As a result, I have this mental image of dozens of drunk Aussies vomiting torrents of Foster's onto the torch.

I'm sure someone will think of a fun and utterly tasteless way to show their opinion of the Berlin, er, uh, Beijing Olympics.

[T3ngu]

Apart from the fosters bit your probably not far from the mark.

[Toddy1]

Apart from the fosters bit your probably not far from the mark.

what about the fact that he mentioned there would only be dozens of drunk Aussies? p-)

[T3ngu]

what about the fact that he mentioned there would only be dozens of drunk Aussies? p-)
Well that was an obvious oversight on my part.

[Toddy1]

could actually be interesting the Day after ANZAC day....the patriotism will be running higher than normal

[Bohemoth]

could actually be interesting the Day after ANZAC day....the patriotism will be running higher than normal
... but but err they say the Chinese robots err security guys am so uber-hard like German Krupp Steel. :)

[Xaito]

is there any difference to other countries?
As far as I have seen in the vids the chinese guys just shielded the torch with their bodies and didn't use force against the attackers (and if they did probably could have been arrested too) - while the local police were doing the arrests... am I wrong?

[hydropod]

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is thick skinned towards outsiders, thin skinned towards the Chinese. Any attempt by outsiders to compromise China's global face, challenges the legitimacy of the CCP governance.

Therefore the CCP has been active in motivating overseas Chinese (especially students) to support its country to placate the Chinese at home, even to the detrement of China's image abroad.

The CCP attempts to regain China's global face before its people will only hurt China more than aid it.

LOL.... actively motivating my ass. I have yet to see the lazy asses in the Chinese Consulates in Melb and Sydney do anything yet. They never do anything apart from showing their face on New Year and 1 Oct each year. All the current organization are being done by Chinese youth groups from the various Universities in Australia, which hardly colaborates with the CCP simply because the consulate staff ignores youth groups. They prefer to play host to the Chinese merchant groups instead.

Then again considering how everyone who supports China must be a "government drone", maybe the consulate staff did slip a recorder under our beds to brainwash us....

[AtomicAardvark]

The Beijing 2008 torch and event is like sh-t for flies for anyone who disagrees with China's policies. They should've anticipated this seven years ago.

I don't think the protests would necessarily be so vocal if the Chinese government hadn't taken such a heavy handed approach to the Tibetian demonstrators in Lhasa right on the very eve of the Torch Relay.

IMO the Chinese only have themselves to blame for the negativity surrounding the Torch Relay, afterall it wasn't the smartest PR move to been seen on television across the world beating up demonstrators right as the IOC are handing you the Olympic Torch which is meant to promote peace and unity through sporting excellence.

[Xaito]

I don't think the protests would necessarily be so vocal if the Chinese government hadn't taken such a heavy handed approach to the Tibetian demonstrators in Lhasa right on the very eve of the Torch Relay.

IMO the Chinese only have themselves to blame for the negativity surrounding the Torch Relay, afterall it wasn't the smartest PR move to been seen on television across the world beating up demonstrators right as the IOC are handing you the Olympic Torch which is meant to promote peace and unity through sporting excellence.

what other choice did the Chinese have?
"Protests" were violent, fires were started and people died - you can't just wait for a couple more days until you do something about it.
Besides - what you've seen around the world were not chinese beating up tibetans... you've probably seen one of the pics from India or Nepal that some news tried to sell as Chinese beating up tibetans.

[AtomicAardvark]

Yes, I'll admit that there were pictures in the newspapers and on the TV of Tibetians attacking Chinese-owned property and attacking Chinese individuals, but what you've got to remember is that for the Tibetians the Chinese are seen as a force of occupation. China invaded what was a defacto independent country.

The crackdown by the Chinese government, utilising the PAP, is what has enraged so many people. Rather than show any sign of restraint in dealing with the protestors, of trying to arrest those guilty of killing Chinese citizens the PAP turned the streets of Lhasa into a ghost town after taking on the protestors - who were if I recall generally protesting peacefully (there's always a few hotheads spoiling for a fight, and these are the ones who generally get all the media attention).

Look at the way the Torch Relay has been organised, the local police have shown restraint and determination to uphold the law when dealing with individuals who have attempted to physically interfere with the Torch Relay - arresting rather than beating up or even killing them - whereas those demonstrating peacefully have been allowed to do so.

The fact that the Chinese officials escorting the Torch have been revealed to be from the very same organisation responsible for the crackdown in Tibet hasn't helped the Chinese image.

[Eztyga]

I, for one, think the Chinese have got it right. How many fvcking hippies do you see in China? Fvcking none, 'cause they are all towing the party line.

Ezy

[Xaito]

but what you've got to remember is that for the Tibetians the Chinese are seen as a force of occupation. China invaded what was a defacto independent country.

I remembered it.... and it still doesn't change the fact that Tibet is controlled by China today and that makes the Chinese responsible for dealing with any trouble in Tibet - that includes stopping violent riots.


Rather than show any sign of restraint in dealing with the protestors, of trying to arrest those guilty of killing Chinese citizens the PAP turned the streets of Lhasa into a ghost town after taking on the protestors - who were if I recall generally protesting peacefully
the protests were not peaceful - properties were burned down and people killed by violent mobs.
"Showing restraint" is not really a good option in that case - and you can't really send a couple policemen to investigate and arrest killers while there's a mob throwing stones at them etc...


Look at the way the Torch Relay has been organised, the local police have shown restraint and determination to uphold the law when dealing with individuals who have attempted to physically interfere with the Torch Relay - arresting rather than beating up or even killing them
attackers who try to take away the torch from athletes may be asshats but not very dangerous - a violent mob is different and are dealt with in a different manner - even in western countries - just look at pics or vids of police dealing with riots or violent mobs in western countries - e.g. germany and you'll see police in heavy armor beating the **** out of some civilians with their sticks... that's how it's done and it's nothing that only China does.


The fact that the Chinese officials escorting the Torch have been revealed to be from the very same organisation responsible for the crackdown in Tibet hasn't helped the Chinese image.
think what you want about that - I think the Chinese did good to send these guys along because the events in france have proven the chinese right.
Media trys to show them in a bad light calling them robo-thugs or whatever but these guys just shielded the torch with their bodies when some people tried to attack as far as I have seen - that's showing restraint in my book.

[vinny_121_ND]

Susumu, interesting view on it. There's a lot of anti china sentiment going on in the media.

[Bongopete]

International incident in the works.

[Ordie]

what other choice did the Chinese have?
"Protests" were violent, fires were started and people died - you can't just wait for a couple more days until you do something about it.

I agree, however, the CCP knowing that China will attract Olympic media attention should've at least made contact with the Dalai Lama and resolve pending concerns at the local level to prevent the uprising.

They had seven years.

[plato]

........
the protests were not peaceful - properties were burned down and people killed by violent mobs. ............

Let us make no mistake about it, no one said China should not use force to stop violent protests or riots. To say that the protests were not peaceful is simply wrong! The protests before 3/14/08 were indeed peaceful. NOT all protests were peaceful, but they were not all violent, either! The West reported both peaceful and violent protests, and China ONLY reported on the violents ones. That is the difference. At CNN.com there are at least 20 videos (http://search.cnn.com/search?query=tibet%20riot&type=video&sortBy=date&intl=false)titled "riot" regarding Tibet, this doesn't even including other videos titled "violent protests". So, who is more bias? Could you find EVEN ONE report from China's CCTV regarding the 3 days peaceful protests before 3/14/08?

[Xaito]

I agree, however, the CCP knowing that China will attract Olympic media attention should've at least made contact with the Dalai Lama and resolve pending concerns at the local level to prevent the uprising.

They had seven years.
I don't see the need to involve the Dalai Lama - a religious leader - in security, crisis management and law enforcement matters.
Besides - the Dalai Lama has said from the beginning he was against the violence - what else can he do apart from appealing to the people - grab some riot gear and stop the mob singlehandedly? p-)

You're right if you meant they should have seen it coming and prevented it from happening in the first place - everybody can make mistakes and misjudge the situation - once the riot started I don't think there was any better solution then sending the police in.


China ONLY reported on the violents ones. That is the difference.
western media tried hard to make china look bad - sometimes even by misinformation - I don't know if its bias of the media or just trying to profit from the reader/viewer's bias against china (or both) but in any case that's something I don't like to see.
You don't have to prove to me that Chinese media is censored and/or controlled - that's something I know - that doesn't change the situation in Tibet though - and it doesn't justify the bias of our media - what Chinese media shows is their problem - what our media shows is ours - and our media has shown lots of BS.

[Calanen]

Looks like no one knows wtf is happening. Jurisdictional fight between the Territory authorities and the Fed.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23551474-5016724,00.html
'Thugs' to join in torch run

By Paul Maley
April 17, 2008 02:57am

Article from: http://www.news.com.au/images/sources/h14_theaustralian.gif (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/)


Chinese paramilitaries will run with Olympic torch
Local police will have 'special powers'
Indepth: Follow the Olympic torch relay (http://www.news.com.au/feature/ranked/0,,5016724,00.html)
THE Chinese flame attendants labelled "thugs" in London will travel on foot with the Olympic torch when it goes through Canberra, not in a bus, contradicting assurances given by Kevin Rudd.

ACT police commander Shane Connelly said three Chinese paramilitaries would run with the torch, a day after International Olympic Committee vice-president Kevan Gosper was carpeted by the Rudd Government for suggesting they could help out with security.

"They won't be in the bus. They will be out running in certain areas along the way," Commander Connelly said.

"At certain parts of the event they need to come out of the bus to light the torch."

The news came as the ACT Government announced that police would be issued with special powers on April 24 to search people in the vicinity of the torch relay and to confiscate any suspicious items such as flares, fire extinguishers as well as potential projectiles.

The ACT's announcement has thrown into confusion the role of the torch attendants, with Canberra torch relay organiser Ted Quinlan saying an undisclosed number of "reserve" attendants would also travel in the bus behind the relay.

Mr Quinlan said the torch needed to be relit every 15 minutes making it practically difficult for the attendants to remain on the bus.

Authorities have repeatedly said only two flame attendants would form part of the convoy and that they would travel in the bus, emerging only if the Olympic flame needed to be relit.
Last week Mr Rudd, during his visit to China, was forced to allay concerns the tracksuit-clad paramilitaries might clash with protesters, as they had in London and Paris.

"If there are representatives from the Beijing Olympic Committee attending the torch when it is in Australia, my understanding from the Australian authorities is that they would be travelling in an accompanying bus," Mr Rudd said.
Yesterday, a spokesman for the federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland emphasised the attendants would have no role in providing security, as was suggested by Mr Gosper.

"ACT authorities have advised us that a Beijing Olympic Committee official will only leave the bus to help one torch relay participant light the torch of the runner that is running after them," the spokesman said.
But yesterday a spokeswoman for ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope said two attendants would travel on foot - with one "in the vicinity of the police security package" - while a third would ride on the back of a police motorcycle to assist the changeover with other runners.

Federal Opposition legal affairs spokesman George Brandis called on the Government to clarify the arrangements for the April 24 run, which he said was fast becoming a "fiasco".
"Any situation where there was the possibility of interaction between Australian protesters and Chinese torch guards is unacceptable," Senator Brandis said.

RSL President Bill Crews expressed disquiet at the potential for the relay to interfere with Anzac Day commemorations the following day.

"In light of what's happening now if we were able to turn the clock back and say, should we pick a day besides the day before Anzac Day, I'd have said, what a good idea," Major General Crews said.
General Crews had asked the Government not to allow the relay near the commemorative areas of the Australian War Memorial.

Yesterday, ACT authorities published where the police could employ their special powers, effectively revealing the route of the relay.

The exclusion zone covers much of the parliamentary triangle, the main thoroughfare through Civic and includes the war memorial.

ACT Attorney-General Simon Corbell said the powers were granted on the advice of police and were similar to those employed at major sporting events.

Thousands of Chinese students are expected to descend on Canberra in support of the torch relay.
Chinese student organisers have put the number between 3000 and 10,000 and have admitted there is a likelihood of clashes between a "small minority" of protesters.

Commander Connelly said police had estimates of the expected number of protesters, but would not disclose them.
However, he played down some of the figures quoted in the media, saying protest groups were often given to "grand statements".

He said the actual number of protesters was often lower.

[Eztyga]

Can you take the tinfoil hat off when you sleep? Or is that considered too risky?

Of course I do, who wants to wake up with tinfoil hat hair? I only wear it to work to avoid the negative energies put out by my co-workers.

You should avoid wearing yours at all costs, especially when you are 'biting the pillow', could fall off and create bite shocks.

Ezy