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View Full Version : F-86A-5 Sabre vs MiG-15 (Korean War)



hist2004
05-28-2004, 03:23 PM
The primary missions of our Air Force during the KW were armed reconnaissance, close air-support and interdiction. The versatile F-84 Thunderjet fighter-bomber combined good range characteristics - 670 miles when carrying wingtip tanks - with a heavy armament of six calibre .50 MGs, plus up to 4,000 lbs of bombs or rockets. This meant the F-84 could carry out all primary missions with equal facility, plus had the range, firepower and maneoeuverability to fly bomber escort.

One of the significant results of China's entry into the war was the resurgence of communist air power. MiG-15 jet fighters operating from airfields around Antung in Manchuria, which was off-limits to US air attack, many flown by Soviet instructors to the Chinese, established ascendence over the F-84, B-29s and other prop-driven UN aircraft.
This ascendency was quickly challenged, and from then on the primary battles in the skies of North Korea were between the MiG-15 and the F-86A.

When operating over northwestern Korea, in "MiG Alley", the Sabres' range restricted them to some 20 minutes over the Yalu, whereas the MiG-15s were within a few minutes flying time of their bases in Manchuria. Apart from the Sabre's range problems, it was also inferior to the MiG-15 in various aspects of performance.
The MiG could outclimb the Sabre at all altitudes, although the latter was marginally faster in level flight. The MiG's greater operational ceiling gave it an initial advantage in combat, yet although it had a greater initial acceleration in a dive, the heavier Sabre had the advantage in a sustained dive. The MiG's zoom climb and tight turning characteristics (except at high speeds) were valuable, but the fighter's good points were counterbalanced by such undesirable features as poor control at high speeds, a low rate of roll and directional instability at high altitudes. Its heavy armament (two 23mm and one 37mm cannon) was better suited to bomber interception than to fighter-vs-fighter combat; but the Sabre's six 0.5 cal MGs, while having a faster rater of fire, lacked the range and hitting power necessary for jet combat. On the plus side, the Sabre had the marvelous K14 radar gun-sight, which gave enormous assistance to our pilots, particularly in derivative movement information of enemy aircraft, which gave invaluable lead-time in dog-fights.

Sabres operating in MiG Alley faced large formations of 50 to 70 enemy fighters flying at heights of 50,000 ft or more, which the American fighters could not match. This meant that the US fighter pilots had to evolve tactics to cope with a "bounce" by fast-flying MiGs diving down on them from high altitude at a time and place of the enemy's choosing. The solution was the "jet stream" of 16 Sabres divided into four-aircraft flights, each of which entered the Alley at five-minute intervals and at different altitudes between 27,000 and 33,000 feet. The Sabres flew at high speed (typically Mach 0.87, so as soon as one flight was engaged by the MiGs the others could rapidly converge on the combat. The flights adopted a "fluid four" tactical formation, comprising two element leaders each covered by a wingman. So, although operating at a considerable initial disadvantage against the high-flying MiGs, the mutually supporting Sabre formations were able to meet the MiG's bounce with a vigorous counter-attack.

The Sabre's combat record in Korea was, by any standards, impressive. Of the 900 aerial victories claimed by USAF pilots during the war, 792 were MiG-15s shot down by Sabres. The MiGs in their turn managed to knock down only 78 Sabres. American fighter pilots thus established a ten-to-one kill/loss ration in their favor.

Documented postwar research indicates there were actually only about 379 US victories.

Whatever the actual victories and losses this was quite an accomplishment, against the odds.

Regards,
Hist2004

el borracho
05-28-2004, 04:46 PM
Damn skippy, I love the F-86! woot

Although I have heard kill ratios from 7-1 up to 10-1. Many people (mostly Russians, or those from eastern bloc nations) refute this statistic to this day and insist that the Mig-15 actually has a better kill score, but I have never seen documentation for this. Like you mentioned, the claims differ, but the Sabre is always the winner.

OldRecon
05-28-2004, 08:27 PM
Think I read somewhere about the Mig 15 pilots in the Korean war not being equipped with g-suits.
Thus Sabre pilots could trick a Mig pilot to kill himself by enticing him to follow in a tight high speed manouvre.
Interestingly in his book "The dragons teeth : inside China's armed forces" the British borne Canadian author and photographer John Robert Young noticed that Chinese fighter pilots he were photographing were not wearing g-suits. And that book was published during the late 80's.

el borracho
05-28-2004, 08:51 PM
Think I read somewhere about the Mig 15 pilots in the Korean war not being equipped with g-suits.
Thus Sabre pilots could trick a Mig pilot to kill himself by enticing him to follow in a tight high speed manouvre.
Interestingly in his book "The dragons teeth : inside China's armed forces" the British borne Canadian author and photographer John Robert Young noticed that Chinese fighter pilots he were photographing were not wearing g-suits. And that book was published during the late 80's.

Wow, that's pretty interesting. i guess during wartime you have to take advantage of things like that. I always liked the stories of how a guy would shoot down a mig and see the pilot bail out...and the pilot of the Korean mig had red or blond hair...or how the UN allies would listen to "Korean" pilots during a dogfight, and when things got intense they would blurt out Russian. But the USSR denied that Russians were employed in the communist Korean military for years.

good stuff.