Wasting money on uniforms

[Dominique]

This is my little rant on the US military wasting money on BS “uniform improvements” that have no bearing our current or future war fighting efforts. I find it amazing that while we’re engaged in active combat operations in two countries, have support units in dozens more, and are scrambling for every defense dollar we can get, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, seem to have found funds to field new uniforms, and not just combat uniforms, but new dress and PT, uniforms. With the exception of the MARPAT uniform, can anyone tell what these new uniforms are good for? Why in the hell the Army decided to go to the ACU is beyond me (I’ve only seen one spot where they actually blend in with anything), and don’t even get me started on the new Air Force and Navy uniforms. The ACU has several problems with it, that more money has to be spent to correct.

As far as dress uniforms go, who the fvck cares, other than a few staff personnel sitting comfortably in their offices at the Pentagon. If I can’t were into combat, don’t worry about it, as the old uniforms were just fine.
The same goes for PT uniforms. How is fielding a new uniform now going to improve either your physical fitness level, troops safety, or help you in combat? It’s not., so don’t waste money on it.

Instead of trying to keep up with the “Jones” (the Marines got new uniforms, so we have to get one too!), or worrying about looking cool as you jog to the office in your new PT uniform, they need to ask exactly how any of this sh*t is going to help us effectively kill our enemies, or make the lives of deployed military personnel any easier.

[Chulo]

battle naked like the spartan?



i guess its the evolution of the uniform to meet both cultural and technological improvements. Look at all that has changed since WWII

has it been happening too regularly- maybe, but it maybe small steps is better by improving each step than waiting 20 years to make the next jump

[Roy Batty]

It could be worse Dom. Our government spent a ton of money to introduce the Cadpat uniform and did'nt make any real "functionality" changes. We still have a uniform that (while nice and cam'ed) does'nt allow me access to my pockets once my armor goes on. The armor still rubs my neck raw because the collar is still the old school flap collar. If they were going to spend the $ at least put pockets on the sleeves and put a mandrin stylye collar on the damned thing.......................................

And dont even get me started on the damned boots!
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/87/temperate20combat20bootxx4.jpg

[Pete031]

and 90 percent of the time you can't wear tailored uniforms. Because we don't have to pay for them. As a result you can't modify.

[seraosha]

There ought to be a "ACU" version of "Godwins Law".

It's only a matter of time.

[khukuri]

Dom, if some uniforms are getting old, doesnt it almost cost the same to sew new uniforms with an older pattern as to sew new uniforms with a newer patter?

As for the rest I agree.

[Britboy]

Hmmmmm... I want cammy boots!

Sounds like there are a lot of uniforms in the US. Why not standardise on just 2 camouflage patterns, desert and woodland, for battledress? The Army, Marines and Airforce can use the same camouflage patterns, that way you're all easily identifiably on the same side. And then a naval working uniform that is flame retardent for use day in day out onboard ship?

Each service will have its own Service, Mess and Barracks Dress too though, and probably different variations on each for tropical and winter use.

There'll also be extra for people with different jobs, like flying clothing, chefs whites, fitter's coveralls etc etc etc.

Do you have to wear a PT uniform then?

Thought you could wear anything for phys after initial training, maybe skip the Borat mankini thong tho!

Regards
BB

[WARPIG]

Dom.. I realize you're just ranting.. but seriously, you don't think this is all just a fashion show?

All this change was already coming. Scrapping the plan to change the uniforms until the war ended would have also wasted money. Fabrication contracts change, new orders of woodland camo, telling fabricators to retool back to the original patterns, contract breachs.. it's really endless. Every uniform in every war had it's problems. Further, it seems that most of the major changes in most militaries happened during war.


I'm with you on the choice of patterns though. ACU still looks like XBOX pajamas.

[Bongopete]

PT uniform?? What the heck is a pt uniform???? What happened to tshirt and shorts or sweats??

[Dominique]

Dom, if some uniforms are getting old, doesnt it almost cost the same to sew new uniforms with an older pattern as to sew new uniforms with a newer patter?

As for the rest I agree.

The actual cost of the uniforms is similar, but they had to spend money to 1) develop the new uniforms 2) have a small run made up for testing (which is expensive), 3) put the production contracts up for bid, 4) field the new uniforms, and all the gear that goes with them (a VERY time and money consuming process 5) come up with new regulations on the wear of the new uniforms, which means reprinting various manuals, etc. Not to mention all the time that was wasting by troops fvcking around with this crap when they could be out killing bad guys.

[Dominique]

Why not standardise on just 2 camouflage patterns, desert and woodland, for battledress? The Army, Marines and Airforce can use the same camouflage patterns, that way you're all easily identifiably on the same side. And then a naval working uniform that is flame retardent for use day in day out onboard ship?

That's the way it was until a few years ago. Everyone either wore BDUs, or DCUs, but as soon as the Marines got new duds, everyone jumped on the band wagon, and you see the results. It's "***** envy" on a massive scale.


Each service will have its own Service, Mess and Barracks Dress too though, and probably different variations on each for tropical and winter use.

Each service already has a distinctive dress uniform, and there was nothing wrong with them. Someone with stars on their collar decided that the old uniforms didn't look spiffy enough, and all four services are working on new dress uniforms. Which tells me there are far to many people sitting in positions with way to much free time on their hands. They need to be worried about fielding some lighter cooler body armor, or improving the performance of ammo.

[QUOTE=Britboy;3184983]Do you have to wear a PT uniform then?[QUOTE]

In th Army and Marines yes, I can't say what the AF and Navy are doing.

[Ordie]

As far as dress uniforms go, who the fvck cares.

Ask a Marine.

[Dominique]

Dom.. I realize you're just ranting.. but seriously, you don't think this is all just a fashion show?

With the exception of the MARPAT unifrom (which actually looks like some serious thought went into it), I think a lot of it is nothing more than several members of the various staffs making themselves feel good. "My uniform looks cooler than yours." Seriously, what the fvck did the AF need a "combat uniform" for? And then to cap it off, when they deploy, all the gear they wear (body armor, helmet covers, etc.) is in ACU pattern.


All this change was already coming. Scrapping the plan to change the uniforms until the war ended would have also wasted money. Fabrication contracts change, new orders of woodland camo, telling fabricators to retool back to the original patterns, contract breachs.. it's really endless. Every uniform in every war had it's problems. Further, it seems that most of the major changes in most militaries happened during war.

I still think a lot of money was wasted. For one, they could have come up with a standardized uniform for everyone (something similar to the BDU, but with some improvements), instead of everyone doing their own thing. And why try to field now, initial testing could have been done, kinks worked out, and the uniforms rolled out whe nthings calmed down.


I'm with you on the choice of patterns though. ACU still looks like XBOX pajamas.

Whoever approved the ACU pattern must have been high. With the exception of the desert areas around Idaho, ACUs don't blend in with sh*t. If anything they stand out like a sore thumb. Then to cap it off, stains stick out them, the crotch rips, they sure as hell don't breath, and after they've been washed few times they look like they're turning white.

[Dominique]

Ask a Marine.

Dress uniforms are fine and dandy when your in a garrison environment, but I could careless about them when either training, in the field, or actually conducting operations. If it's not helping me with any of the above, it gets moved to the back burner.

[Britboy]

Again, I'm just an outsider looking in, but ACU looks like it'd be a great urban cam with all that grey in there.

Issue one set of this, as well as the usual woodland/desert uniforms that all troops have, so that when troops are getting ready to enter a city, they can change to a cam suited for the environment. Kind've like how they have snow suits that go over your waterproofs when you go somewhere polar.

Each service will continue with their own Service, Mess and Barracks Dress, it is a part of heritage. I mean look at the naval ratings uniform of any country.

But I think different cammies for each service is not a good idea. I know Air Force/Navy/Marine leaders get annoyed with the press calling them 'soldiers', but I wouldnt want to be wearing different clothes if I was in a TACP supporting an Army unit and the enemy had binoculars... :(

[BrianT]

75th Regiment has a fund set aside for an initial 2 million dollars for uniforms that actually blend in(both patterns of MARPAT hilariously enough), but have cool guy knee pads and such. That's an initial buy. They will continue to purchase more as people DX them and more people need them. I thought it was ridicilous when they could easily go back to DCUs and BDUs that people can barely give away these days. And it wouldn't be a problem if the Army just picked a camo pattern that works.

For an Army at war, the US Army has alot of dumb **** going on. Too many REMFs that grew up in the Army during peace time running it these days.

[bd popeye]

Ask a Marine.

Oh hell yes.p-)

Of course my shipmate ordie is correct.

[Dominique]

Again, I'm just an outsider looking in, but ACU looks like it'd be a great urban cam with all that grey in there.

ACUs or OK, in an urban area, but BDUs also worked just fine.



But I think different cammies for each service is not a good idea. I know Air Force/Navy/Marine leaders get annoyed with the press calling them 'soldiers', but I wouldnt want to be wearing different clothes if I was in a TACP supporting an Army unit and the enemy had binoculars... :(

USAF TACP personnel wear either ACUs when assigned to Army units, or DCUs when working with the Navy The Marines have their own TACPs.

[Britboy]

Ahhh, gotcha. I thought it'd be a bit of a liability on the battlefield to have different people in different togs! In any case, in past wars people used to remove/censor unit patches to avoid the enemy being able to identify unit movements (hence just HMS on WWII sailors cap tallies rather than ship/submarine name). So why suddenly go to advertising ourselves?

Either woodland or desert for all people seems good to me, it'd cut down on quite a bit of logistical headache and spends too, when you consider all the other stuff (webbing, bergens, bivouac sheets, arctic kit, etc etc etc).

Regards
BB

[Dominique]

Either woodland or desert for all people seems good to me, it'd cut down on quite a bit of logistical headache and spends too, when you consider all the other stuff (webbing, bergens, bivouac sheets, arctic kit, etc etc etc).

Regards
BB

As I said previously, that's the way it used to be. Everyone wore BDUS, or DCUs depending on where you were working or were deployed to. Now everyone's doing their own thing. And you can't tell me there was a dying need for everyone to start fielding new PT gear. It's just easier to slip something like that into your budget request when the tap's already flowing for other projects.

[Britboy]

Yeh, you'd think money would be better going to such things as study groups on COIN, force protection, intelligence and anti terrorism efforts, defence against cyber attack, defence against ASAT attack, and of course, the ongoing commitments in the Middle East.

Isn't there a justification/accounting process where service heads must defend their budget breakdown?

BB

[BloodyTalon]

I understand where you're coming from Dom, but the ACU's aren't that bad. Basically, you have to treat the ACUs the same way the IDF treats their OD uniforms; at first glance they're not going to blend in with anything except for the cloth it was made out of, but once you where them for a while and get them dirty, they work well in the environments we're fighting in (desert, urban, mountainous, etc.). Just look at all of the pics taken from Iraq as an example.

However, they're obviously not gonna blend in with anything BDU's were meant for. We'll probably need a 2nd cammo pattern for that. I also don't see why everyone needs to get new Class As and IPFUs as well; they look fine the way they are.

edit: and the fact that the AF is getting "ACUs cept with tiger stripes and green boots lol" and the navy is getting "Blue digital camo lol" makes Baby Jesus cry.

[Dominique]

Isn't there a justification/accounting process where service heads must defend their budget breakdown?

BB

Yes, but it usually deals with big ticket items like the new AF tanker fleet, the Army's FCS, or ships, not smaller items like uniforms.

[Dominique]

I understand where you're coming from Dom, but the ACU's aren't that bad. Basically, you have to treat the ACUs the same way the IDF treats their OD uniforms; at first glance they're not going to blend in with anything except for the cloth it was made out of, but once you where them for a while and get them dirty, they work well in the environments we're fighting in (desert, urban, mountainous, etc.). Just look at all of the pics taken from Iraq as an example.

ACU's either get stains in them that wont come out, or they get lighter in color, they don't just fade, they almost look white, or an off pink color. And you can't wear those nasty ole uniforms around or you'll have a Sergeant Major with nothing else to do commenting on the status of your uniform. We had one stop guys from eating because "Their uniforms are to sweaty to eat in here". Well if they were in the AC all day, they'd be nice and dry too. Or here's my favorite, after spending 4 1/2 hours driving through a sand storm, being stopped from entering the DFAC becuase "Your uniform is to dirty, and you need to change"

[seraosha]

Thats a crock right there. Uniforms too dirty to eat in a chow hall?
WTF?

[Ordie]

Thats a crock right there. Uniforms too dirty to eat in a chow hall?
WTF?

You would have a mutiny on an aircraft carrier if this is the case. The "eau de JP-5" compliments well the the "sliders and beans" in the forward galley. Though the "turd chasers" (The ship's plumbers) were kind enough to shower before each meal.

[Dominique]

Thats a crock right there. Uniforms too dirty to eat in a chow hall?
WTF?

You would be amazed at some of the stuff happens. We rolled in one morning and pull out gun trucks up next to a DFAC. The temp had been below freezing all night (it was around 30 degrees), and my gunner is wearing his black fleece hat under his ACH. He pulls off his helmet, jumps down, and heads for the DFAC to grab some chow. Next thing I know I've got some CPT. telling me I need to make him take the hat off as the black fleece is no longer authorized. I politely tell him, "I'll take car of it sir", and promptly proceed to ignore him, as not all of our guys have been issued the new green fleece hats, and non of us have the new green fleece coats.

This is the type of silly sh*t that 1) they should really be worried about to begin with 2) happens when you've got units rotating into and out of a combat zone, and some of them may not have gotten a complete issue of the new uniform items. As it stands now, theirs a short age of the IR reflective flags. I old one is torn to shreds (so it's not authorized for wear as it "damaged"), I can't get a new one (they're on back order), and the IR flags are the only flags we're supposed to be wearing.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

We've all been in a job where the new boss shows up and immediately reshuffles people's jobs and moves the work stations around. It serves no purpose other than to show everybody who's' boss. Generals come in and immediately want to change logos, command-wide paint schemes, uniforms etc. They do these things mostly because they have little other discretionary action they can take, to be able to point to having done something, and mostly because it's harmless. It's only money.

[seraosha]

Sounds like garrison has invaded the field.
REMFs, sweet mother of God how I loathe them.

Hang in there man, you can't fix stupid.

[Dominique]

Another favorite of mine is the constant bitching about guys not wearing all their PPE in the field. Yet when certain general officer flew up to "inspect" one of our TCP (we were providing security for the Sea Bees while they repaved a route in Southern Iraq), he hops out of the helo wearing an ACH, a LBV, and his pistol. No gloves, no IBA, no ballistic glasses (but he did have on his trusty aviator glasses), snaps a few pics, and promptly flew away. The general consensus was WTF was that supposed to be.

[bigvig]

I like what the Army is going to do in the near future. Getting rid of all the clutter, the green uniform, the white uniform, and whatever else trash there is and instituting a single dress uniform that embodies Army tradition and history. The ACU on the other hand, was a terrible idea.

[BrianT]

Did they ever decide if we could wear patches with that new dress uniform? Class As without scrolls will make alot of guys cry. Or at least it'll make me cry.

[bigvig]

Did they ever decide if we could wear patches with that new dress uniform? Class As without scrolls will make alot of guys cry. Or at least it'll make me cry.
You mean the ASU? I don't think so. It would look pretty ugly IMO with it.

[Bohemoth]

The grayish ACU would be good for Camp Star Wars on the Moon.

[gobdav]

lol this reminds me of the time, in Northern Iraq, when our SSG threatened article 15's for a SGT doing guard duty because he hadn't shaved that morning, even though his only job that day was waking up, going to the tower, then coming back to his tent. He also threatened the other SGT who was pulling guard with him as an "accessory."
I'm all for keeping discipline in the field, but c'mon! It's not like soldiers have other things to worry about.

But back on topic....yes, the BDU/DCU combo worked really well. I'm pissed, however, at the fact that they're planning on letting any kid, right out of Basic, wear the Dress Blues as their Class A's. I had to work to get my Blues, and bought them with much pride when I made NCO. If what I saw at Ft. Jackson once is any indication, things will look horrible.

Oh, and the new PT shirts are the worst ever idea to come out of a uniform change. They don't flex or stretch like the old shirts did, and they seem to be more cheaply made. The shorts are great, shirt sucks compared to the oldies.

[-Church-]

Well i did read that the ACU(a disruptive pattern) is here to confuse the mind of the enemy and pparently trying to hit someone wearing the ACU is kind of complicated.

[Britboy]

Is that why the U.S. Night Cam (as seen on parkas put on to keep the cold night out in the Gulf War 1991) look like an early two-tone 'digital cam' or grid pattern?

Wonder what it is about this grid/pixel pattern that makes it fool night vision, maybe its something to do about corresponding to the pixellation of the NVG display...

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

This is just the tip of the ice burg. The whole military arms complex has gone nuts and wastage is happening big time and every single little security company is now a "Military Contractor"

There was a time when start of the art planes and warships were designed by 4 or of guys as side projects to their fridge making business. Now theirs hundreds of guys designing the latest and completely useless "Army Eating utensil"

Take the JSF for example. The program has thousands of guys working on it scattered throughout the world. It's nuts.

Theres probably engineers on 100k a year designing the latest boot laces.

[dave81]

They're designing a new Army PT uniform?

[SBL]

Is that why the U.S. Night Cam (as seen on parkas put on to keep the cold night out in the Gulf War 1991) look like an early two-tone 'digital cam' or grid pattern?

Wonder what it is about this grid/pixel pattern that makes it fool night vision, maybe its something to do about corresponding to the pixellation of the NVG display...

I believe I read a post on here not long ago stating that it had been abandoned because NVG technology has developed to the point that night camo is kind of obsolete.

[WARPIG]

If you've been around the ARMY long enough, you should know that no matter what the uniform or what the intent of the uniform should be, some officer or CSM has their own idea of how it should be worn. BDU's were starched and pressed to the point that we called it "breaking starch" when you put on a new uniform. NCOs would spend big chunks of their pay having the half dozen skill badges sewn on their uniform. Hours of precious XBOX time was wasted polishing boots for the morning formations. I wish I was talking about just the REMF's, but we all know that if a soldier was caught with a jacked up beret, trashed uniform, or ****ty lookin boots.. he'd be staning in front of the CSM before long. That same mentality lives in the ACU world. Crooked velcro, popped collars, scuffed boots, black fleece, black belts... tan or foliage helmet bands.. it's going to be endless. Black everything has been removed from the uniform.. yet we still wear the Shinseki beret. We can't escape the stupid ideas.

[dave81]

Yeah, I just got counseled this month for NOT IRONING my ACUs.

[Lambert58]

As several people have pointed out, there should be one set of combat uniforms for all services: woodland digi, urban/desert digi, snow digi. Separate dress uniforms, fine.

And don't get me started with the PT uniforms. The AF PT uniforms are the most uncomfortable pieces of sh*t I've ever worn. I have one word for any people reading MP.net that also sit on a uniform board: COTTON!

But, the capacity to standardize comfortable, functional uniforms is firmly beyond the grasp of past or present military leadership. If any AF folks reading this remember the uniform disaster brought on by that idiot McPeak (the same genius that brought you the composite wing).... but I digress...:|

[Noble713]

Yeah, I just got counseled this month for NOT IRONING my ACUs.

Did you bust out the regs that specifically state ACUs are not to be ironed? Hell, I think it's printed on the inside of the damn garment. Your leadership sucks.
:bash:

[gobdav]

I have one word for any people reading MP.net that also sit on a uniform board: COTTON!



YES! I agree. The Army PTs are exactly the same. Love the shorts, but the tops are useless.

[orionhawk]

edit: and the fact that the AF is getting "ACUs cept with tiger stripes and green boots lol" and the navy is getting "Blue digital camo lol" makes Baby Jesus cry.

as I have pointed out in previous threads on uniforms, the Navy's blue digi-cam is intended to reduce the appearance of grease spots and paint on our daily working uniform. when you have had to replace a $28 set of dark blue coveralls or a $50 set of utilities (which, btw, happen to be the ****tiest military uniform ever) that you have had for a week because you got paint on them, then you may be permitted to bitch about the new Navy Working Uniform.


We had one stop guys from eating because "Their uniforms are to sweaty to eat in here". Well if they were in the AC all day, they'd be nice and dry too. Or here's my favorite, after spending 4 1/2 hours driving through a sand storm, being stopped from entering the DFAC becuase "Your uniform is to dirty, and you need to change"


You would have a mutiny on an aircraft carrier if this is the case. The "eau de JP-5" compliments well the the "sliders and beans" in the forward galley. Though the "turd chasers" (The ship's plumbers) were kind enough to shower before each meal.
I've seen that happen. Had 3 separate mess deck MAA's try to stop me from eating because I had been needle-gunning, and was dusty. I have also been stopped, twice, from getting dinner or MidRats "because I needed to shave". I had. 18 hours earlier.:bash:


oh, and the USN is about to adopt a ghey (ghey , not grey.) PT Uniform as well. some jackweed star-wearer decided it would accent our commitment to PT if we made sure everyone got issued adequate PT gear. The PT uniform, like most such, includes some 1970's-looking shorts. I do not wear shorts, and there are no pants even authorized optionally, that I can discover. It also does not include issued decent footwear, which would actually help.

[WARPIG]

Yeah, I just got counseled this month for NOT IRONING my ACUs.

I've had the chew ass for soldiers showing up for formation looking like the just got mugged. I don't expect soldiers to iron their uniforms but I just let them and their squad leaders know to square their **** away. If you wash your uniform and stuff it in your duffle bag... it's going to look like crap. Wash it, pull it from the dryer 90% dry and either hang it or lay it flat. Throwing an iron over some of the problem areas isn't a bad idea if you know what you're doing. (don't put a hot iron directly on the velcro) Use a towel or something. Just try and keep those stupid pockets and frigging collars flat. It sucks, but a little bit of maintenance is better than we used to have it. We may have to look like Xbox soldiers.. but the upkeep isn't that bad.

[Parx400]

Well i did read that the ACU(a disruptive pattern) is here to confuse the mind of the enemy and pparently trying to hit someone wearing the ACU is kind of complicated.


That is the idea with digi cammo, its hard for the eyes to focus on it so you dont always notice it.

[BrianT]

I don't think anyone doubts the idea of digi camo. I think people just doubt the color choices used in ACU.

I'll tell you what I'm ****ing tired of seeing. Chef hat berets by these leg SGMs fixing other people's uniforms and telling them it's about discipline. Discipline is ****ing sucking up the pain and putting one leg in front of the other with a 90lbs ruck on your back when you've been going on for 15 miles. It's not wearing your damn uniform like some POG. I swear I kill the next mother****er wearing his patrol cap right off the shelf like some top hat with a straight brim. Cut the god damn liner, pat the top down, and curb your damn brim. Stop looking like such asshats. Get your uniform dirty. It means you work for a living.

[gobdav]

I don't think anyone doubts the idea of digi camo. Cut the god damn liner, pat the top down, and curb your damn brim. Stop looking like such asshats. Get your uniform dirty. It means you work for a living.


lol, well then you got Rangers pissing and moaning that you're not qualified to wear it like that. Damned if ya do.....

Otherwise, I agree with it all, minus the attitude :)

[Ordie]

I've seen that happen. Had 3 separate mess deck MAA's try to stop me from eating because I had been needle-gunning, and was dusty. I have also been stopped, twice, from getting dinner or MidRats "because I needed to shave". I had. 18 hours earlie.

We (Weapons Department) had a probem with Mess Deck Master at Arms (MMA) once . Therefore the Gun Boss (Weapons Department CO) filled the ranks of MMA with Ordnancemen including a Chief Petty Officer on Temporary Assigned Duty.

No problems since then and no mess crank ever went to Capitian's Mast. We look after our own and take care of problems at the lowest level.

[Albatross]

The Military, as usual, does a great job of R&D and purchase, but a very poor job in educating the end user.
My post from another forum on this subject:
You have to understand how digital camo works and the purpose of camo in general.

There is a need for perfect camo; a sniper's gillie comes to mind. It is used to prevent near and far detection.

When a unit of Infantry is moving across the desert or through a city there is nothing that will prevent near and far detection. What studies have proven though is that it is hard for the human eye to easy locate digi camo. I've taken the test and on one picture of green woods there was an OD block, a traditional woodland camo block, and a digi camo block, I knew this before I saw the pic. I saw the OD instantly, the woodland was a close second, and then I had to search for the digi camo block. This test surprised the **** out me, I was impressed.

You also need to realize that night camo while being observed through a night vision scope is more important than day time camo and the digi camo excels in this aspect. I have seen pics of Soldiers up against a wall taken with a nice night vision camera from just feet away and if you only looked at the digi camo you couldn’t tell where the camo and wall stopped and started!!! Now imagine a bad guy with a POS gen I Russian scope at 200 meters trying to get a bead on them, he would have a very hard time.

Once again the services did a great job in researching and buying modern equipment and poor job educating the end user.

As far as the Navy having their own, if I had been king for a day, I would have forced the Army and Marines to come up with a new combat digi uniform, then forced the other services to use it when needed. The amount of time, brain power and money we are wasting in slightly different helmet and uniform requirements is bull****.

you sure are an officer, no offense. ACU is crap, always will be crap. MARPAT works, why not just roll with the MARPAT? Now the Army is looking at new uniforms, rumor is MC but who knows. To many politics going on with new equipment.

[BloodyTalon]

as I have pointed out in previous threads on uniforms, the Navy's blue digi-cam is intended to reduce the appearance of grease spots and paint on our daily working uniform. when you have had to replace a $28 set of dark blue coveralls or a $50 set of utilities (which, btw, happen to be the ****tiest military uniform ever) that you have had for a week because you got paint on them, then you may be permitted to bitch about the new Navy Working Uniform.
I understand the need to have a rugged and comfortable working uniform, but that still doesn't change the fact that it has a digital camo pattern despite the fact that its blue and bluish-grey and its not like the sailors wearing in it need to blend into the ship or water. What's wrong with having one solid color to make stains less noticeable?

[Chulo]

I understand the need to have a rugged and comfortable working uniform, but that still doesn't change the fact that it has a digital camo pattern despite the fact that its blue and bluish-grey. What's wrong with having one solid color to make stains less noticeable?They dont put patterns there cause it looks pretty

[SBL]

I understand the need to have a rugged and comfortable working uniform, but that still doesn't change the fact that it has a digital camo pattern despite the fact that its blue and bluish-grey and its not like the sailors wearing in it need to blend into the ship or water. What's wrong with having one solid color to make stains less noticeable?
Stains tend to stand out on one solid color.

[Mordecai]

The Military, as usual, does a great job of R&D and purchase, but a very poor job in educating the end user...

Sir:

The Marine Corp may have done a good job with their purchase, however the Army did not. There is no such item as a universal camo pattern. Sacrifices were made on the greens so it would perform better in arid environments, never giving thought that we may one day fight back on the green side, infact we are still conducting operations in green environments.

While the eye disrupting digital pattern works in concept, it requires the colors in the pattern to match those found in the environment it is intended to be used in. Regardless of how many swatches of the fabric you have seen, I can tell you from experience UCP stands out like a whore in church in green environments, especially jungle environments. After some time spent in the bush one collects enough dirt and green from the foliage to hide the day-glow effect of the ACU but until such time they are horrible. I would prefer to have OG-107's than the ACU's. Good thing there is an ETP for the continued wear of BDU's in SouthCOM AO... They also make one a target when working with HN soldiers...

For the MC lovers, multicam isnt the fix for the problem either so stop beating that drum like its a Godsend. The Army needs to stop looking for a one-size fits all solution to camo and come to the realization that there needs to be one combat uniform for arid environments and another for green environments like we HAD at one time and the Marine Corp continues to have. I am glad to see Ranger Regiment stepping up to the plate and R&D-ing something that will blend in instead of standing out.

I am not even going to get started on the whole issue of the dress uniform...

my .02 and worth what you paid...

Crip

[Mordecai]

...I never said it was a universal camo...

It was not my intent to insinuate you did Sir. The pattern the ACU's and gear of the same is called UCP (Universal Camo Pattern) thus giving the idea that it is useful throughout the spectrum of operational environments.

The fiscally responsible thing would have been to stay with what we had until such a time that compromises in usefulness wouldnt need to be an issue.

Sorry for the confusion.

Crip

[orionhawk]

I understand the need to have a rugged and comfortable working uniform, but that still doesn't change the fact that it has a digital camo pattern despite the fact that its blue and bluish-grey and its not like the sailors wearing in it need to blend into the ship or water. What's wrong with having one solid color to make stains less noticeable?what is this magical color, against which no stain will show? The digicam is the point. a paint-spot of almost any common color will not show against it.
the coveralls we wear now are all one color. until they get paint on them.

there is also the fact that the coveralls and utilities both are completely unsuitable for shipboard wear. the coveralls are nowhere near durable enough, regardless of color, and the utilities are fragile, fugly, and uncomfortable.

[dave81]

The Army needs to stop looking for a one-size fits all solution to camo and come to the realization that there needs to be one combat uniform for arid environments and another for green environments like we HAD at one time and the Marine Corp continues to have. I am glad to see Ranger Regiment stepping up to the plate and R&D-ing something that will blend in instead of standing out.Any publicly available info on this up & coming camo, or is it too early/too "secret" to reveal?