China to clear out foreign students, refugees before Olympics

[plato]

Can anyone confirm this report?

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/199559,china-to-clear-out-students-refugees-before-olympics--feature.html


China to clear out students, refugees before Olympics - Feature

Posted : Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:52:19 GMTAuthor : DPA
Beijing - China plans to order all foreign students to leave the country before the Olympic Games in August, strictly regulate the issuing of business and tourist visas, and deport refugees, sources said on Thursday. "Even if you have to continue your studies in September, you need to leave Beijing in July and August," a spokeswoman for Beijing University told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

The university is one of China's most prestigious colleges and enrolls hundreds of foreign students annually on Chinese-language and other courses.

The spokeswoman said the two-month gap applies to all universities in Beijing and was ordered by "higher authorities" because of the Olympics.

One Western education official estimated that at least 10,000 students would be affected by the order.

The official China Daily said about 190,000 foreign students from 188 nations attended courses in China last year.

The Beijing University spokeswoman said all short-term summer courses for foreigners had been cancelled this year.

China has already severely restricted the issuing of short-term and multi-entry business visas, prompting complaints from business groups and diplomats.

Some Beijing-based businesses said they may be unable to fill vacancies until after the Olympics because of the new restrictions.

"You can be sure that all countries affected will raise the issue with the Chinese side very intensively," one informed source said of the restrictions on business visas.

"It clearly has to do with the Olympics," the source said.

China appears to have acted partly in response to recent reports that police uncovered at least two terrorist plots targeting the Olympics, the source said, adding that other nations had taken similar security measures in the past.

China's foreign ministry on Thursday defended the restrictions and said visas were issued "according to law."

"I believe it will have no influence on normal business activities in China," ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said of the change in visa policy.

"Compared with the visa practice in other countries, in China it is relatively convenient," Jiang said.

Joerg Wuttke, president of the EU Chamber of Commerce in China, on Thursday criticized China for limiting business visas issued to foreigners in Hong Kong, saying the new rules were severely affecting business people.

Wuttke called the restrictions "truly annoying" and charged that the new visa rules were unclear and have never been published.

The new measures, which an informed source quoted foreign ministry officials as saying were temporary, require non-permanent Hong Kong residents to apply for visas in their home countries.

"If you don't reside or work in Hong Kong permanently, you are required to apply for a Chinese visa from the embassy ... in your resident country," said a copy of the new visa regulation posted on a government website.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) said it was concerned about the deportation of vulnerable refugees from China before the Olympics.

In a statement posted on its website, UNHCR highlighted the case of a 17-year-old unaccompanied refugee who was returned to his country of origin after being taken from his home in Beijing on April 3.

"The news of this and other deportations has created considerable anxiety among the refugees in Beijing, who have told us they are feeling very intimidated by these activities," UNHCR spokeswoman Jennifer Pagonis said in the statement.

"From a security perspective UNHCR appreciates that particular vigilance is needed during this period of preparation for the 2008 Olympics," Pagonis said.

"We are ready to discuss acceptable arrangements which are sensitive to these concerns but which preserve necessary conditions of protection for persons in need," she said.

She said some of the deportations among the 180 refugees recorded by UNHCR in China "may well constitute a violation" of the 1951 Refugee Convention.
Copyright, respective author or news agency

[Ordie]

It does not make sense.
Does this apply to the City of Beijing or nationwide?

What about international university students and ex-pats who volunteered to work in the Olympics?

What if one does not have funds to buy a plane ticket home?

[plato]

It does not make sense.
Does this apply to the City of Beijing or nationwide?

What about international university students and ex-pats who volunteered to work in the Olympics?

What if one does not have funds to buy a plane ticket home?

It sounds strange to me, too. Maybe that is why someone called these new policies as "unclear". Maybe they were designed to by "unclear".


Wuttke called the restrictions "truly annoying" and charged that the new visa rules were unclear and have never been published.

[Zerazax]

Where else has this news been posted? If true, that's obviously a big issue for a lot of kids studying abroad, but I haven't heard of it yet from anywhere else

[plato]

Where else has this news been posted? If true, that's obviously a big issue for a lot of kids studying abroad, but I haven't heard of it yet from anywhere else

Deutsche Welle:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3274085,00.html

[Hispeed1]

Propaganda from China-they're going to try to paint China as the perfect utopian society, they making companies stop their machinery and are going to ban a lot of drivers from driving during the Olympics to help clear the bad air there. In a way, I'm glad that the Olympics are in China. So more of the world will know how crappy their system is there.
US@ STR0NG!

[balalaika-san]

Propaganda from China-they're going to try to paint China as the perfect utopian society, they making companies stop their machinery and are going to ban a lot of drivers from driving during the Olympics to help clear the bad air there. In a way, I'm glad that the Olympics are in China. So more of the world will know how crappy their system is there.
US@ STR0NG!
not only they stop the machinery in factroy, they also order the big factroy move to other cities.


so far, I can only find the Deutsche Presse-Agentur have report this news.

[Load Toad]

China is also making it rather difficult (to say the least) to get business visas and multiple entry visas. In the past it was relatively easy for foreign passport holders to get China visit visas (L visas etc) in Hong Kong in half a day. Now only 1 & 2 visit visas with 30 day validity are being issued. It's taking up to 4 days to process also. Further only HK PR ID card holders can apply in Hong Kong. Other foreigners have to apply in their own country and I'm told have proof of hotel booking / return flight ticket.

You can imagine that as there was no notice that this would happen and it is Canton and Hong Kong fare season this is causing chaos.

To a degree this is not a change of rules but an enforcement of 'the law' that over the past few years China had 'allowed' to develop a degree of flexibility which was convenient both to the business people and tourists and to HK and China business and tourism.

Needless to say the 'changes' are causing great cost and inconvenience.

I also heard yesterday whilst in Dongguan that factories had received notice that all factories using coal as fuel will have to shut from June 1st until after the Olympics - no mention of what the staff were supposed to do or how these companies were supposed to stay in business.

[xjym2002]

If it was 20, no, 30 years ago, it's possible.

BTW, if it's unclear, why the title of the news so affirmative? How many people will read through the whole b*** instead of take a glance on the title?

[Hispeed1]

not only they stop the machinery in factroy, they also order the big factroy move to other cities.

so far, I can only find the Deutsche Presse-Agentur have report this news.

Try CNN. 123456

[Hot Lips]

Could this be so foreign college students won't be around to take up any protesting efforts?

[Ordie]

Could this be so foreign college students won't be around to take up any protesting efforts?

It's hard to say. Most students are language students learning Mandarin. There are a number of students from Africa, Latin America and SE Asia learning all sorts of subjects.

It's going to be difficult for Beijing since its very much a college town and students are integrated within the local community and economy. Bei-da (Peking University), and Xinhua (A uiversity funded by Americans 100 years ago) are the largest. Not to mention Beijing Medical University.

Nankai University in Tianjin (100 miles away) will also be affected. There are American universities that set up remote campuses as well.

[Bohemoth]

What's so unbelievable? It's just 130.000 international students that have to book a cheap flight home on their own expenses and waste half a year of their life, because the Chinese control fetishists want games cleaner than a surgical room. If China wants it, the world has to dance and make flip flops for them. The world is rotating around China, didn't get it yet? rofl

[Load Toad]

Some info on the visa situation here: http://thechinavisa.blogspot.com/

Also note over the past 12 - 18 months China has been cracking down on polluting factories and trying to cut down on all forms of pollution - not necessarily related to the Olympics. Further factories have relocated from the growing cities for both this reason and to move to areas with cheaper land / labour. Most of these factories are private and the move is voluntary and / or due to market forces.
It is grossly wrong to consider that all of the Chinese government is hell bent on restricting freedom and abusing human rights. In my experience now stretching over 13 years traveling to China this is not the case. But yes - they still have a lot of issues they have to learn to deal with responsibly and properly. Like a lot of countries - China ain't perfect.

[ChinaCat]

Can anyone confirm this report?

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/199559,china-to-clear-out-students-refugees-before-olympics--feature.html




Plato , you tell me , what the hell this action for?one action,one reason.

[J-10]

Can anyone confirm this report?

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/199559,china-to-clear-out-students-refugees-before-olympics--feature.html

100% Rumor.

[Calanen]

100% Rumor.

You have checked with your sources in the Chinese government?

[Ordie]

100% Rumor.

J-10,

What is the word from Bei-da and Xinhua Universities?

Perhaps you can give us a clarification. For me its seems very odd since Beijing is an international, cosmopolitan and academic city.

-Ordie

[blackrosebin]

[quote=plato;3185611]Can anyone confirm this report?
bu **** ! Only foolish guys and westerners would believe this so called news.
Use your heads! is it possible?

[WKD]

[quote=plato;3185611]Can anyone confirm this report?
bu **** ! Only foolish guys and westerners would believe this so called news.
Use your heads! is it possible?

It is unpossible!!11 Western media lies and disgusting slander against china state!1! can you see i am Not joKing? More discpline in accordance with Sociaulist LiFestyle!@

[plato]

Chinese governement said this report was false: http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2008-04-18/190015384844.shtml (in Chinese)

[=SiCaRiO=]

i cant belive how many poeple really belive it :roll:

[WKD]

i cant belive how many poeple really belive it :roll:

Really? Ok, so you don't think a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship with the internal power to shut down entire industries and forcibly relocate citizens en masse just to hold an international PR event is capable of doing this?

Meh.

I am not into being nice because, well I don't know why because. Apparently these days we have to be so open minded our brains fall out. Everybody is good, everybody is nice, everybody is everybody else's friend, we all just want to be loved bull**** and by the way it's all whitey's fault. I would like to see one leader 'round here just stand up and say China? Zimbabwe? You're all a bunch of bastards and screw you if you think we're gonna put up with your ****. Aid? Go to hell. Respect? Not getting it. Olympics? **** no.

But no no no, hedge your words, be non-commital and don't achieve anything, change nothing instead. Sure you're a nasty little third world dictatorship but hell, have some aid because the people are suffering and it's more important to look after the blameless, even though all it does is allow the bastard in charge to secure their position and stop the poplulation from doing something about it themselves.

But no no no no, more bull**** about international community, which is all lies to begin with, while bastards with complete and absolute knowledge and forethought as to what they are doing line their pockets and tell us **** is gold. **** that noise, I am sick of cowards dressing up their lack of any sort of moral courage and blatant greed as some sort of higher moral ideal and internationalism. ****ing monkeys.

Was this story correct? Who ****ing cares? Why the **** should I give the PR goddamned C the benefit of the doubt? Why do they deserve it? They don't, **** em all.

Say **** to China, More Chest for Striking.

/rant.

[seraosha]

[quote=plato;3185611]Can anyone confirm this report?
bu **** ! Only foolish guys and westerners would believe this so called news.
Use your heads! is it possible?

Wow, talk about "Yellow Menace"...I thought folks were kidding about the inet invasion.

[=SiCaRiO=]

Really? Ok, so you don't think a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship with the internal power to shut down entire industries and forcibly relocate citizens en masse just to hold an international PR event is capable of doing this?

Meh.

I am not into being nice because, well I don't know why because. Apparently these days we have to be so open minded our brains fall out. Everybody is good, everybody is nice, everybody is everybody else's friend, we all just want to be loved bull**** and by the way it's all whitey's fault. I would like to see one leader 'round here just stand up and say China? Zimbabwe? You're all a bunch of bastards and screw you if you think we're gonna put up with your ****. Aid? Go to hell. Respect? Not getting it. Olympics? **** no.

But no no no, hedge your words, be non-commital and don't achieve anything, change nothing instead. Sure you're a nasty little third world dictatorship but hell, have some aid because the people are suffering and it's more important to look after the blameless, even though all it does is allow the bastard in charge to secure their position and stop the poplulation from doing something about it themselves.

But no no no no, more bull**** about international community, which is all lies to begin with, while bastards with complete and absolute knowledge and forethought as to what they are doing line their pockets and tell us **** is gold. **** that noise, I am sick of cowards dressing up their lack of any sort of moral courage and blatant greed as some sort of higher moral ideal and internationalism. ****ing monkeys.

Was this story correct? Who ****ing cares? Why the **** should I give the PR goddamned C the benefit of the doubt? Why do they deserve it? They don't, **** em all.

Say **** to China, More Chest for Striking.

/rant.

check out your bed man , should be a commie dictator under it :-*$

[plato]

[quote=plato;3185611]Can anyone confirm this report?
bu **** ! Only foolish guys and westerners would believe this so called news.
Use your heads! is it possible?


How was this originally posted by me? I never wrote this

[damagejackal]

Really? Ok, so you don't think a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship with the internal power to shut down entire industries and forcibly relocate citizens en masse just to hold an international PR event is capable of doing this?

Meh.

I am not into being nice because, well I don't know why because. Apparently these days we have to be so open minded our brains fall out. Everybody is good, everybody is nice, everybody is everybody else's friend, we all just want to be loved bull**** and by the way it's all whitey's fault. I would like to see one leader 'round here just stand up and say China? Zimbabwe? You're all a bunch of bastards and screw you if you think we're gonna put up with your ****. Aid? Go to hell. Respect? Not getting it. Olympics? **** no.

But no no no, hedge your words, be non-commital and don't achieve anything, change nothing instead. Sure you're a nasty little third world dictatorship but hell, have some aid because the people are suffering and it's more important to look after the blameless, even though all it does is allow the bastard in charge to secure their position and stop the poplulation from doing something about it themselves.

But no no no no, more bull**** about international community, which is all lies to begin with, while bastards with complete and absolute knowledge and forethought as to what they are doing line their pockets and tell us **** is gold. **** that noise, I am sick of cowards dressing up their lack of any sort of moral courage and blatant greed as some sort of higher moral ideal and internationalism. ****ing monkeys.

Was this story correct? Who ****ing cares? Why the **** should I give the PR goddamned C the benefit of the doubt? Why do they deserve it? They don't, **** em all.

Say **** to China, More Chest for Striking.

/rant.


Who took the jam out of your doughnut???

[WKD]

check out your bed man , should be a commie dictator under it :-*$

Check out your moral courage dude, oh no wait who needs it?

[ocean]

Really? Ok, so you don't think a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship with the internal power to shut down entire industries and forcibly relocate citizens en masse just to hold an international PR event is capable of doing this?

Meh.

I am not into being nice because, well I don't know why because. Apparently these days we have to be so open minded our brains fall out. Everybody is good, everybody is nice, everybody is everybody else's friend, we all just want to be loved bull**** and by the way it's all whitey's fault. I would like to see one leader 'round here just stand up and say China? Zimbabwe? You're all a bunch of bastards and screw you if you think we're gonna put up with your ****. Aid? Go to hell. Respect? Not getting it. Olympics? **** no.

But no no no, hedge your words, be non-commital and don't achieve anything, change nothing instead. Sure you're a nasty little third world dictatorship but hell, have some aid because the people are suffering and it's more important to look after the blameless, even though all it does is allow the bastard in charge to secure their position and stop the poplulation from doing something about it themselves.

But no no no no, more bull**** about international community, which is all lies to begin with, while bastards with complete and absolute knowledge and forethought as to what they are doing line their pockets and tell us **** is gold. **** that noise, I am sick of cowards dressing up their lack of any sort of moral courage and blatant greed as some sort of higher moral ideal and internationalism. ****ing monkeys.

Was this story correct? Who ****ing cares? Why the **** should I give the PR goddamned C the benefit of the doubt? Why do they deserve it? They don't, **** em all.

Say **** to China, More Chest for Striking.

/rant.

..umm, you seemed tired

[maw]

your english-fu is weak so i thought i'd give you a helping hand:


check out your bed man , should be a commie dictator under it :-*$


check out our presidential palace, should be a commie dictator and a proletariat that never relinquished power in it :-*$

fixed

[=SiCaRiO=]

just out of curiosity , where do you think im from?

[GlassHarp]

Why don't you just tell us and not waste time, nobody wants to play little games.

I don't really see why it would be so hard to believe that there could be ten thousand people in China that the government wants to leave before the Olympics start. It certainly cost alot more to get a Chinese visa this year than last year. I could see them wanting to control who is in the country during the games.

[maw]

just out of curiosity , where do you think im from?

as long as we're playing little guessing games: uranus?

[=SiCaRiO=]

I don't really see why it would be so hard to believe that there could be ten thousand people in China that the government wants to leave before the Olympics start. It certainly cost alot more to get a Chinese visa this year than last year. I could see them wanting to control who is in the country during the games.

that show how uninformed are people about current chinese situation .

[GlassHarp]

that show how uninformed are people about current chinese situation .


Right. You got me there. .... How is that so?

[GlassHarp]

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=12050&theme=1&size=A

This source seems to agree with the general gist of the article, I don't think it would be fair, or possible to say that Beijing is going to clear out ALL students. But there certainly are foreign students in China who have motives for being there other than just study. I would assume that Beijing is not stupid and would also know this, also I would assume that since it is Beijing that they would take appropriate action to ensure that possibility of incident is minimized. If that means that certain individuals or groups of individuals could find their stay for study shortened I don't see how anyone could be surprised.



04/18/2008 13:46
CHINA - HONG KONG
As the Games knock China shuts the door
Entry visa requirements get more restrictive. Tourism and trade in Hong Kong are expected to suffer. The European Chamber of Commerce in the Special Region seeks solutions. The authorities for “security reasons” cancel a festival the European Union had been planning for quite some in the capital.


Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – As the Olympic Games get closer China is tightening its entry visa requirements, making it harder to visit the country. As of 16 April visitors from 33 countries can no longer get a visa to the mainland in Hong Kong, where bureaucratic hurdles were less burdensome, but must now directly apply from their home countries and show a return ticket as well as a hotel reservation. Meanwhile Beijing cancels for “Olympic security” reasons a festival organised by the European Union.
Until last Wednesday it was possible to get a five-day visa in Hong Kong and many companies had set up in the Special Region for that same reason. Now except for those already resident in Hong Kong, nationals from 33 countries (including Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Nigeria and Turkey) must go home to apply.
The new rules were issued last Tuesday by the Commissioner's Office of the Foreign Ministry in Hong Kong and came into force the next day. Even before that the European Chamber of Commerce wrote to the Commissioner's Office of the Foreign Ministry in Hong Kong on Monday seeking a meeting with senior officials to thrash out solutions and sort out difficulties foreign businesspeople now face in travelling to the mainland, especially when they have to travel on short notices.
The new restrictions were preceded by a halt to the issuing of multiple-entry visas—which travel agents were told about on 27March—and the suspension on April 1 of short-visit visas to Shenzhen, which were previously issued at the border to those who wanted to go for cross-border shopping.
Local business people are especially worried that the new regulations would negatively impact trans-border tourism.
Meanwhile Beijing has told the European Union to cancel a festival scheduled for 11 and 12 May in Chaoyang Park.
“We are shocked and disappointed by what we see as unnecessary security measures,” said a Beijing-based spokeswoman for the EU presidency. The event called "EU Extravaganza" had been approved by China’s Culture Ministry.
“I can't say if the Chinese government is paranoid. But I don't think this is normal procedure before an Olympics,” the spokeswoman for the 27-nation block said.
As the Games get closer and closer Beijing wants to avoid any form of protest or challenge.
Back in November Ministry of Public Security Deputy Director Ma Weiya had said that in principle all mass events, be they cultural, sport or trade conventions, would be allowed.


I hope I quoted that correctly-it is my first time doing so. Please correct me if it is incorrect. Thanks.

[Calanen]

that show how uninformed are people about current chinese situation .

Does the Politburo give you a telephone call whenever they change their visa policy? Man you must be hooked up!

[Bohemoth]

The English language South China Morning Post in Hong Kong wrote no multiple Visas are issued anymore until after the Games. That's pi*sing off so many business people. China, good PR job, as usual. :hug:

[Ordie]

This source seems to agree with the general gist of the article, I don't think it would be fair, or possible to say that Beijing is going to clear out ALL students. But there certainly are foreign students in China who have motives for being there other than just study.

I think the majority of international students are there to learn Chinese language, culture, arts and most importantly its people. International education and exchange is good for China and other nations. To kick the international students out of China sets a bad precedence.

For the government to deport the international students in such manner would not only hurt them but also thier professors, classmates and friends they made in China.

It's a shame since relationships between students, teachers and classmates can last a lifetime.

[Ordie]

The English language South China Morning Post in Hong Kong wrote no multiple Visas are issued anymore until after the Games. That's pi*sing off so many business people. China, good PR job, as usual. :hug:

It's difficult since many business transactions in China is based on face to face contact and networking. I'd expect companies will send PRC ex-pats to fill in until the end of the games.

[Load Toad]

How does that work? It is still rather difficult for Chinese to get the necessary visas to travel out of China and even then communication is not especially easy. Indeed a lot of business absolutely needs people to visit Chinese factories, suppliers, freight companies and other service providers.
It will be incredibly difficult (if not impossible) at short notice (and for such a short duration anyway) to find the correctly skilled and experienced Chinese staff.

I certainly hope the Chinese government reconsiders its position with regard to what visas it will issue and where it will issue them from. (Though personally I'm OK cos I hold a 3 year multi entry visa ta very much).

The Chinese also need to think about the simple fact that these attempts to control who can visit China and when is a total contradiction to its attempt to PR manage the games to show China has come of age and is a benign world power worthy of holding not just the Olympic games but a senior position in world affairs.

(Frankly I couldn't give a toss about the Olympics which are a load of jingoist nonsense, crap sports and corporate advertising dressed up as an important event).

[balalaika-san]

Try CNN. 123456
sorry, can't find it on CNN websit.:|

[balalaika-san]

Just found this on the Xinhua......




Foreign students not required to leave China during Olympics
www.chinaview.cn (http://www.chinaview.cn/index.htm) http://imgs.xinhuanet.com/icon/2006english/2007korea/space.gif 2008-04-18 20:13:48 http://imgs.xinhuanet.com/icon/2006english/2007korea/space.gif[/URL]http://imgs.xinhuanet.com/icon/2006english/2007korea/space.gif


Special report: [URL="http://www.chinaview.cn/08olympics/index.htm"]2008 Olympic Games (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/18/content_8005209.htm#)

BEIJING, April 18 (Xinhua) -- Overseas media reports that foreign students in China would have to leave the country during the August Olympic Games were "totally fabricated", the Ministry of Education said here Friday.
"Recently, some foreign media say China requires foreign students to leave during the Games. It completely goes against the facts," ministry spokesman Wang Xuming said.
Relevant departments and universities "have never asked foreign students to leave China during the Olympics and Paralympics. During that time, foreign students could stay and some of them would join volunteer services".
He added international cooperation and exchanges in the educational field would proceed as usual, including accepting foreign students who would come to study in China. Official statistics show China attracted more than 162,000 students from 185 countries and regions in 2006, triple that of 2000. Foreign students entered more than 500 universities and higher education institutes and their research topics covered almost all academic subjects available in China.



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/18/content_8005209.htm

[Waasuup]

Can anyone confirm this report?

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/199559,china-to-clear-out-students-refugees-before-olympics--feature.html

I can tell you that it is false, at least when Xi'an is concetned. I know a lot of foreign students ( i study in xi'an foreign studies university), and they have no knowledge regarding this of any sort.

[ChinaCat]

I can tell you that it is false, at least when Xi'an is concetned. I know a lot of foreign students ( i study in xi'an foreign studies university), and they have no knowledge regarding this of any sort.


really , good to you , we are in same city

[Xingbake]

Heheee..... It's really interesting to see how the rumour is created and spread. And how did someone so confirmed to make the others believe it.

Well done!!! Good learning for me and many others http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Load Toad]

That's why you should always check the sources of information and not believe ****e posted on t'internet message boards....

[Ordie]

Heheee..... It's really interesting to see how the rumour is created and spread. And how did someone so confirmed to make the others believe it.

Well done!!! Good learning for me and many others http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was taught to question everything...assume nothing.

[GlassHarp]

That's why you should always check the sources of information and not believe ****e posted on t'internet message boards....

Well one of the sources is the fracking POPE, or some archbishop or something. So I think that it is more than internet message boards. Also I don't think anything has been proven wrong at this point.

Have you tried to get a Chinese visa lately? no? Well then just so you know it has gotten more difficult.

The thing you have to understand about the way the Chinese government works is that it is not an open system like in America or Britain, no law has to be made, passed, discussed, nobody has to be told, they can just decide to do something. Later if it seems like a bad idea they can just reverse it and claim that it was never the case. Happens all the time in the movie industry over there.

I don't believe that there ever was any LAW against having more than one child in China, it just was against desired policy. So you could also plausibly say that people in China are FREE to have as many children as they wish, after all, there is no law saying they can't.
But then again there is no law saying that they won't be punished if they do.

Point is a denial from the Chinese government has as much weight as a reason from MR. B. for invading Iraq, I guess it is just up to you if you want to believe it or not.

Remember again that it is not ALL students who will be deported, just those who are deemed potential trouble makers. I don't know what you think goes on over there, but foreign students and teachers can be monitored, people I know have found microphones in their rooms, Other have had unknown phone numbers call them and playback entire conversations that they have had about sensitive political topics. You don't think that Beijing would be willing to use what they know to get someone out of the country if they think they could make trouble? Who is being naive here?

[Calanen]

I don't believe that there ever was any LAW against having more than one child in China, it just was against desired policy. So you could also plausibly say that people in China are FREE to have as many children as they wish, after all, there is no law saying they can't.
But then again there is no law saying that they won't be punished if they do.

The law was that you paid a fine based on multiples of income for your area for every child you had more than the one child you are allowed, or one birth you are allowed (you dont have to put one of the twins on Craigslist if you have multiples). Also like with all things, the local party officials get a free pass on the one child policy. As Mel Brooks said 'It's good to be the King.' or the Wu Mao. There were numerous examples of communist party officials having a number of children. Imagine everyone who is at your school is an only child? Pretty sad.

What a lot of people dont know is that China for a while experimented with eugenics laws to in the 1990s. So that you had to not have any undesirable characteristics if you were not going to be permitted to reproduce. They found out that the international community didnt like that very much, so they dont talk about it a lot.

http://www.healthmatters.org.uk/issue16/chinabacktracks

China backtracks on eugenics law

The Chinese government has been forced to amend plans to introduce a ‘eugenics’ law to prevent the birth of children with genetic defects, after being stung by foreign criticism.

The original draft bill, titled ‘On Eugenics and Health Protection’, proposed using sterilisation, abortion and bans on marriage to prevent affected people from passing on hereditary mental disabilities and certain diseases, including hepatitis, to their children. Official sources claim that it was designed to ‘avoid new births of inferior quality and heighten the standards of the whole population.’

The government is redrafting the law and now says it will not coerce mothers into having abortions. However, the new version of the law would still make demands on some couples by requiring them to postpone marriage or take long-term contraceptive measures after marriage. This includes couples diagnosed as having reproductive diseases, hereditary diseases that lead to seriously sick or disabled children, schizophrenia, manic-depressive psychoses and other severe psychoses, or acute infectious diseases including venereal diseases.

The aim of the law will still be to prevent the birth of people with serious hereditary diseases or mental disabilities. The government claims that as many as 460,000 children a year are born in China with birth defects and disabilities that could be foreseen through genetic testing. Officials estimate that there are 10 million Chinese people with major congenital problems whose births could have been prevented if these measures had been introduced.

The move towards population screening and involuntary abortion follows widespread concern about the forceful implementation of China’s one-child-per-family policy. Although the government now stresses that termination of pregnancy must be with the agreement of the woman, fears remain that people will still be pushed into aborting foetuses diagnosed as carrying genetic defects.

In response to Western criticism the Chinese official news agency insisted: ‘The essence of China’s better-births policy is totally different from the racist ‘eugenics’ policy pursued by Adolf Hitler’ and instead aims to ‘improve the quality of the Chinese population. ’

Despite such protestations, the difference between China’s policy and the traditional eugenic goal of ‘improving the stock and eliminating defectives’ is hard to see.

http://www.popline.org/docs/117401

I dont know what the current status is, but things are so chaotic now in china, it would be pretty hard for the local party boss to police. I had heard about the communist party issuing 'birth permits'. What a strange place to live.

[GlassHarp]

But is the one child policy actual LAW in China, I don't think that it is, it is just general planning policy, just what they think should be done. It's not in the books, just on the plaques or banners or walls.

Again I believe that that is the way it is, I have never extensively studied the subject.

[BearInBunnySuit]

But is the one child policy actual LAW in China, I don't think that it is, it is just general planning policy, just what they think should be done. It's not in the books, just on the plaques or banners or walls.

Again I believe that that is the way it is, I have never extensively studied the subject.

Don't think it's the LAW per se. I knew this one Chinese guy and he said he had two brothers...I think his explanation is that it's not illegal but you get penalized. So in theory, rich people can have as many kids as they want. :-(

[Waasuup]

But is the one child policy actual LAW in China, I don't think that it is, it is just general planning policy, just what they think should be done. It's not in the books, just on the plaques or banners or walls.

Again I believe that that is the way it is, I have never extensively studied the subject.

Well that's not exactly true. But it is true however that the Chinese law seem to be very "flexible".

Once in a while you have the "YanDa", or strke-hard periods, during which the police focus on certain specific crimes.
For example during a strike-hard period against robbery on motorbikes, if a crook robs someone using a motorbike and gets caught, he may be face a sentense double or triple that of normal times. But if he just robs someone without using a bike, he gets the normal sentence.
This is kinda funny to be, there should be better ways.

[Waasuup]

Don't think it's the LAW per se. I knew this one Chinese guy and he said he had two brothers...I think his explanation is that it's not illegal but you get penalized. So in theory, rich people can have as many kids as they want. :-(

On the contrary, it is normally the poor who have more than one kid.
Originally when the policy started it was very strict. If you were a farmer you would get a heavy fine. If you worked in the city you would not only get a heavy fine but might even lose your job. Also whenever there are bonuses or benefits from the job you would be the last one or get less.

But nowadays the policy seems to be much less strick, and it is a law now that if both two persons from single child families marry, they can have two children. And i'm not sure if they still have fines on farmers for having more than one children. If there were i'm sure it's still the same amount as 20 years ago, which is something like $70. This is not a lot to farmers these days, where as it used to be an fortune.

The thing is, with all the education the pressure, and the punishment. Chinese have seemed to understand the birth control policy, and they are more rational than the old times when it comes to having children. So with the population under control, the government is loosening things up.
Also we have to give a warm hand to DUREX here. :)

[Load Toad]

Well one of the sources is the fracking POPE, or some archbishop or something. So I think that it is more than internet message boards. Also I don't think anything has been proven wrong at this point.

Have you tried to get a Chinese visa lately? no? Well then just so you know it has gotten more difficult.

The Pope? Right on brother - there's a good source - NOT. But you then say it could be an Archbishop or something - that's not giving an exact source is it. And a theologian that believes in a supernatural being and defends the Catholic churches policies? Strewth - yeah - put me down for believing anything they say...

I live in HK, hold a British passport (I'm a UK citizen) - I also am a HK ID and PR card holder. I travel to China every week. I know pretty well the situation with visas and such like.

The Chinese can have more than one child - if they are peasants and the first child is a daughter (peasants tend to want and need male babies) or if the parents are prepared to pay the fine for having more than one child. I understand these policies are changing anyway.

Similarly the eugenics - is it really much different to screening for spina bifida then offering the choice of an abortion?

China doesn't hold a monopoly on bad government; check out the Bush administration for details. (Or Tory Bliars for that matter).