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Violet Fashion by Mindy
04-19-2008, 10:15 AM
Innocent photographer or terrorist?


By Tom Geoghegan
BBC News Magazine
Misplaced fears about terror, privacy and child protection are preventing amateur photographers from enjoying their hobby, say campaigners.

Phil Smith thought ex-EastEnder Letitia Dean turning on the Christmas lights in Ipswich would make a good snap for his collection.

The 49-year-old started by firing off a few shots of the warm-up act on stage. But before the main attraction showed up, Mr Smith was challenged by a police officer who asked if he had a licence for the camera.

After explaining he didn't need one, he was taken down a side-street for a formal "stop and search", then asked to delete the photos and ordered not take any more. So he slunk home with his camera.



To be pulled out of a crowd is very daunting and I wasn't aware of my rights
Phil Smith

"People were still taking photos with mobile phones and pocket cameras, so maybe it was because mine looked like a professional camera with a flash on top," he says.

"I wasn't very pleased because I was taken through the crowd and through the barriers at the front and people were probably thinking 'I wonder what he was doing.'

"To be pulled out of a crowd is very daunting and I wasn't aware of my rights.

"It's a sad state of affairs today if an amateur photographer can't stand in the street taking photographs."

'Crazy' officials

But he's not the only snapper to fall foul of the authorities while innocently pursuing a hobby or working.


There's a general alarm about terrorism and about paedophiles, two heady cocktails
Austin Mitchell MP

Austin Mitchell MP has tabled a motion in the Commons that has drawn on cross-party support from 150 other MPs, calling on the Home Office and the police to educate officers about photographers' rights.

Mr Mitchell, himself a keen photographer, was challenged twice, once by a lock-keeper while photographing a barge on the Leeds to Liverpool canal and once on the beach at Cleethorpes.

"There's a general alarm about terrorism and about paedophiles, two heady cocktails, and police and PCSOs [police community support officers] and wardens and authorities generally seem to be worried about this."

Photographers have every right to take photos in a public place, he says, and it's crazy for officials to challenge them when there are so many security cameras around and so many people now have cameras on phones. But it's usually inexperienced officers responsible.

"If a decision is made to crack down on photographers, it should be made at the top. It's a general officiousness and a desire to interfere with people going about their legitimate business."
Furtive photos

Steve Carroll was another hapless victim of this growing suspicion. Police seized the film from his camera while he was out taking snaps in a Hull shopping centre. They later returned it but a police investigation found they had acted correctly because he appeared to be taking photographs covertly.

And photography enthusiast Adam Jones has started an online petition on the Downing Street website urging the prime minister to clarify the law. It has gained hundreds of supporters.

He says it has become increasingly difficult to take photos in public places because of terrorism fears.

Holidaymakers to some overseas destinations will be familiar with this sort of attitude - travel guides frequently caution readers that innocently posing for a snapshot outside a government building could lead to some stern questions from local law enforcers.

But in Britain this sort of attitude is new. So what is the law?
"If you are a normal person going about your business and you see something you want to take a picture of, then you are fine unless you're taking picture of something inherently private," says Hanna Basha, partner at solicitors Carter-Ruck. "But if it's the London Marathon or something, you're fine."

Everyone in the photographic world has become so concerned we're mounting campaigns
Stewart Gibson
Bureau of Freelance Photographers

There are also restrictions around some public buildings, like those involved in national defence.

And under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000, police officers may randomly stop someone without reasonable suspicion, providing the area has been designated a likely target for an attack.

Child protection has been an issue for years, says Stewart Gibson of the Bureau of Freelance Photographers, but what's happened recently is a rather odd interpretation of privacy and heightened fears about terrorism.

"They [police, park wardens, security guards] seem to think you can't take pictures of people in public places. It's reached a point where everyone in the photographic world has become so concerned we're mounting campaigns and trying to publicise this. It seems to be increasing," he says.

"There's a great deal of paranoia around but the police are on alert for anything that vaguely resembles terrorism. It's difficult because the more professional a photographer, paradoxically, the more likely they are to be stopped or questioned.

"If people were using photos for terrorism purposes they would be using the smallest camera possible."

Complaint

The National Union of Journalists has staged a demo to highlight how media photographers are wrongly challenged by police.

In May last year, Thames Valley Police overturned a caution issued to photographer Andy Handley of the MK News in Milton Keynes, after he took pictures at the scene of a road accident.

Guidelines agreed between senior police and the media were adopted by all forces in England and Wales last year. They state that police have no power to prevent the media taking photos.

They state that "once images are recorded, [the police] have no power to delete or confiscate them without a court order, even if [the police] think they contain damaging or useful evidence."

And in the case of Phil Smith, an official complaint about the Christmas lights incident helped sort matters out. Not only did he receive a written apology from Suffolk Police, but also a visit from an inspector, who explained that the officer, a special constable, had acted wrongly.

And there was one consolation for Mr Smith as he trudged home while lamenting the shots of Letitia Dean that never were - she didn't turn up anyway.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7351252.stm

Mamont
04-19-2008, 10:43 AM
Hm, seems like soon so-called "West" will be equal to "paranoia" and "fear" with a flavor of totalitarism..

gilgoul
04-19-2008, 10:53 AM
I can tell that as an amateur photographer, I already experienced many of those things, from being "told" to stop photographing to getting almost arrested for taking pics in town close to the US embassy in Tel aviv.
The issue is real and worrisome.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-19-2008, 11:51 AM
Hm, seems like soon so-called "West" will be equal to "paranoia" and "fear" with a flavor of totalitarism..


Perhaps you missed this bit


In May last year, Thames Valley Police overturned a caution issued to photographer Andy Handley of the MK News in Milton Keynes, after he took pictures at the scene of a road accident.

Guidelines agreed between senior police and the media were adopted by all forces in England and Wales last year. They state that police have no power to prevent the media taking photos.

They state that "once images are recorded, [the police] have no power to delete or confiscate them without a court order, even if [the police] think they contain damaging or useful evidence."

And in the case of Phil Smith, an official complaint about the Christmas lights incident helped sort matters out. Not only did he receive a written apology from Suffolk Police, but also a visit from an inspector, who explained that the officer, a special constable, had acted wrongly.

And there was one consolation for Mr Smith as he trudged home while lamenting the shots of Letitia Dean that never were - she didn't turn up anyway.I can't see the police doing that in Putin's new Soviet paradise :roll:

silentpartner
04-19-2008, 02:05 PM
Innocent photographer or terrorist?


"....officer who asked if he had a licence for the camera."

Just out of random curiosity - since when does one need a licence either for a camera or to take pictures in the UK?

Ichhabe
04-19-2008, 02:14 PM
I have also experienced this and one thing is clear; they have to pry the camera out of my dead cold hands before I ever give it up.

Hollis
04-19-2008, 02:15 PM
This has been going on for a long time. Also the papparazzi does not have the best reputation with "famous" people and fans. Then we have You Tube stuff, copy rights, right to privacy, websites like upskirt, etc.

Photographing sensitive places has always been a issue for as long as I can remember. Even various areas are off limits to certain visa holders.

Highten awareness does not say a person is or is not paranoid. If there was never a situation where terrorists filmed a site for future attacks, then it would probably be paranoid.

I have never been in a accident where I needed seat belts. Do I wear them? Yes. Am I paranoid because I use seat belts? No.

I think the Professional Photographer association has guide lines for photographers to follow when shooting in public. Also to ask for permission to photograph a person. Rude photographers/papparazzi does not help this situation.

Military-G
04-19-2008, 02:25 PM
Just out of random curiosity - since when does one need a licence either for a camera or to take pictures in the UK?

Since never ... Bit of a numpy cop he got at that festival unfortunately .. They sent a special constable around to apologise for it so i guess the situation is sorted. Though id be pretty peed off if some officer made me delete all the pics on my camera, especially in such an innocent situation.

Mamont
04-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Perhaps you missed this bit
Yes, i noticed it. Do you by any chance thinking that one case of apology justifies all?.

I can't see the police doing that in Putin's new Soviet paradise :roll:Seems like your agenda isn't letting you even fart happily if it's not the fart in the direction of Russia.. Which I'm not from..

a_very_ex_STAB
04-21-2008, 10:22 AM
Yes, i noticed it. Do you by any chance thinking that one case of apology justifies all?.
Seems like your agenda isn't letting you even fart happily if it's not the fart in the direction of Russia.. Which I'm not from..

At the risk of going off topic why are you always sucking up to them then?

Holycrusader
04-21-2008, 10:26 AM
I can't see the police doing that in Putin's new Soviet paradise :roll:

Some serious complexes here...

a_very_ex_STAB
04-21-2008, 11:00 AM
Some serious complexes here...

Maybe you'd better see a trick cyclist then?