Future Soldier System concept (IdZ-ES)

[Mackie]

Interesting article about the ES system.
Especially the new helmet on the first picture:

http://www.rheinmetall.com/index.php?fid=2056&lang=3

[Jarhead]

Great read.
Thanks for posting.

[triggerhappy15]

The helmet you speak of look way to big to be practical. The guy looks like an alien. :)

[Trenk]

all this systems look good just and only on shows... I doubt any infantry guy would like to use that bulky crap, it improves something but definitately decreases use of natural human senses

[Mackie]

I know.
The helm is bulky because it carries some components like the headset.
StarWars Design:
http://picture.yatego.com/images/4238288c30b217.1/star_wars_endor_rebel_commando_sergeant.jpg
But I am sure, it's a light-weight design.

The systems is highly modular. German press taught the military a lesson due to annoying reports about the weight and ergonomic problems of the first system.

[Ratamacue]

all this systems look good just and only on shows... I doubt any infantry guy would like to use that bulky crap, it improves something but definitately decreases use of natural human sensesLast I heard, Land Warrior has gotten favorable feedback from 4/9 Infantry during their deployment to Iraq. It's just a matter of taking the tool and finding what its strengths are, and ditching what isn't useful. Hence why in 4/9, the full system wasn't issued to anyone below the fireteam leader level, and it appears that they didn't bring along the bulky thermal sights or camera systems.

[Paddy51]

I have been involved in VR work for many years and some of it for the defence industry. Hence, I am interesting in the deployment if Land Warrior. I was disappointed to read at one point that its use was being limited - seemed that it was not doing the job. I then read an article that I can't find the reference to that said that it was great for certain jobs but generally it was not needed for others. And of course it is bulky to carry out by everyone if not needed by all at all times.

[Britboy]

Are IdZ, FELIN, FFW and so on issued (or are planned to be) to everyone? Or to commanders and other key personnel as Ratamacue has said happened with Land Warrior?

I think the British FIST system is to be fielded with regard to the operational situ in hand, which sounds flexible.

Do we need to issue these systems to everyone for it to work great, when they come into widespread service?

I think it could have a lot of application with junior commanders who obviously aren't in a big HQ with all the technology and information already. For fireteam, section/squad, platoon and company level commanders, and other key personnel like forward observers, it should be great stuff.

But is there any value in a typical rifleman being able to read out his 10 figure grid ref and send messages to whoever he wants, where to be honest his sect commander/2iC is doing it all anyway, not more than 20 metres away, and can talk to him via his personal role radio in any case?

I think for commanders etc great, but for everyone risks information overload and a LOT of added cost for little to no improvement in capability.

Plus your average rifleman is not likely going to find it all that useful anyway, I mean he's hardly going to be deconflicting between neighbouring units or whatever in any case, so it really does look like a junior commanders tool to me.

Regards
BB

[Hellfish]

IIRC the French FELIN is starting to be issued now.

[Mackie]

@Britboy:

German Army:

Soldat der Zukunft = Soldier system
(Clothing, Vests, Optics, NV, ...)

Infanterist der Zukunft = Infantry system (IDZ, IDZ-ES)
(Like in the article)

[big_les]

Sigh. I still can't believe our FW system has been named "FIST"...

What's next?

Field
Enhanced
Laser
Combat
Harness?

[Sabre]

Well, they're currently trialling the Dismounted Infantry Local Direction Orientation system. :lol:

In all honesty though, a lot of these system components are already in use in one form or another. All these programmes seem to be doing is bolting them onto the helmet and rifle. Whether they actually need to be there is another issue.

I don't think every soldier needs them, but having a way of tracking, identifying and communicating with each soldier on the battlefield would be great. Current problems on the battlefield surround the ease of comms between different units. Having a signal net is great in a battlegroup scenario, but the modern battlefield means that even small unit commanders may need to talk to aircraft etc to call in strikes, to IFF, or to get a better picture of the battlespace. Currently, a multitude of radios need to be carried to do this, which ought to be optimised. To that end, a personal radio that is robust, light, encripted and multi-band, with some form of ID reporting signature fitted to it would be great. Of course they already exist but aren't on general issue.

Other than that, having night vision/thermal capability for each soldier would be ideal, be that helmet or weapon mounted. Commanders, ie Section i/c's, PC's, Coy Cmd etc should have access to a system that tracks individual soldiers, allows real time aerial/satellite imaging, stores gps co-ords/phase lines etc, overlays soldiers' positions and allows marking of enemy positions, preferably on a note-pad type device. That would greatly enhance the 'reach' of a section and help comms in confusing or rapidly changing engagements.

People may scoff at these suggestions, but bear in mind that any old sod can buy a first or second gen night sight (let alone third gen etc) off the internet without anyone noticing. The modern enemy may lack sophisticated weaponry, but basics like night vision that used to be the preserve of professional armies are now open to anyone. We need to keep the capability gap as large as possible in order to save lives. We don't need to strap extra shyte to our helmets to achieve that though! :D

[little icebear]

@ sabre

X2

Very well said. I couldn´t agree more. What you suggest is also more versatile, easier to keep up to date and surely more cost-effektive than all the robocop-crap.

And needless to say that in the end of the day it´s all about a well trained, highly motivated grunt with a reliable rifle.

[Sabre]

Well, it's the way things are going. These programmes look flash, but I remember seeing them trying to integrate this stuff over a decade ago. Obviously R&D drives change, but until you can 'micro' this technology sufficiently to practically integrate it into a helmet, hand held kit is just as good.

Intermediate technology of this type is being fielded, but there is scope for widespread introduction of fairly basic kit such as reliable, encripted, integrated personal comms that is available now, which should be on issue.

[Britboy]

Alright, so what capabilities do we really need then? And what kit is required to meet those needs?

PRR for every man - done
LLM for every man is the case on ops I have heard

NVGs for all would seem to be the way to go, I know there are CWSs but you can't peer through those all the time whereas to have night vision at all times when moving etc might be better.

I think theres already a lightweight TI (Viper 2?) in service, would one or two per section (sect comd and 2ic) be the way to go?

Not sure if there are binoculars featuring laser rangefinder in the system but I imagine that those that need them get them, probably less likely to be a section thing and more of a FOO thing I'd have thought.

New body armour and lid - done for those on ops

BOWMAN - haven't used this so perhaps someone here who has can let us know what its like. Doesn't the radio also include GPS and force tracker/IFF/anti-friendly-fire position reporting too?

So actually, it looks like a lot of capabilities are in place already, and only need to be issued to all, or to be modified perhaps. What new capabilities would you include apart from the commanders PDA thingy for situational awareness that Sabre suggests? Perhaps a little display that flips down from the helmet, or one that straps onto your forearm, would be more handy than a notebook type machine? But it seems that itd be best used for commanders and other key pers (like MFCs too I'm guessing), not everyone.

Thoughts anyone?
BB

PS: With NVGs, can you also look through a SUSAT and shoot okay? As then you wouldnt have to have CWS, or CWS + NVGs, just NVGs that were compatible with SUSAT and other sights. Which'd be better on batteries and reducing kit to be carried.

I know that you can see an IR laser through NVGs but think you can't rely on this alone, as if the enemy have NVGs then they'll see your laser and position too, so you still need to be able to peer through your sight whilst wearing NVGs, right?

Regards
BB

[vitek]

Enjoy photographs of IdZ ES
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300078.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300127.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300126.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300123.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300122.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300121.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300120.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300115.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300114.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300113.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300112.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300111.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300099.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300077.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300075.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/fj_jurij/future%20warrior/S6300076.jpg

[flanker7]

Nice. Thank you! What's with the pouches?!

[vitek]

From closer view It looked like a Neoprene.

[SE7ENSIX]

Future Soldier System? Nothing about the dress and vest look too future-istic

[Power_serj]

All I see is extra useless weight. The United States is fighting a light (no armor), limber enemy, adding extra weight will not help troops to catch them.

[JoaMei]

Thats not like a race between roadrunner and coyote, Information and sharing of it is the Key to catch the Enemy.