Raised on welfare, the "Why Bother?" generation doesn't want to work (UK)

[dave81]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560939&in_page_id=1770


A "why bother?" economy has been created in Britain which has left thousands with no motivation to work, a report published today concludes.

...The Mail highlighted the problem of those refusing to work last month, meeting families in which not one member has worked for three generations.
The grandmother matriarch of one, Sue McFadden,54, said: "Our neighbours are so snobby - they call us the 'Shameless' family and say that we ought to go out to work. But how can we work when we have all these children to look after?"


Bonus includes photo of three generations of a family (mother, son, granddaughter) that have never had a job.

[Military-G]

You know it seems nowdays here in uk you are better off claiming benefits, after all the taxes you are left with nothing ... and when you see the taxes you pay squandered on such useless crap it makes you think whats the point.

Not to mention nobody even has a chance of purchasing a house or building foundations ... it is pretty bleek. Obviously not for all people but for alot.

Please dont think im excusing lazy good for nothing doll bummers who decide to have 5 kids before they turn 20 and aim for nothing because im not. :) They suck.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

[Billy No Mates]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

Don't be so reactionary ...ts everyones 'right' to beget a battalion of dole scum who in turn spawn a veritable army to continue the hopeless lineage .

[Tokamak]

That people are the real cancer of this country.

[Invisigoth]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

Judging from the photo, the grandmother and the father had the daughter together; I sense something incestuous going on..

[Billy No Mates]

Judging from the photo, the grandmother and the father had the daughter together; I sense something incestuous going on..

Yes they do look like the sort of people you might see in Darwins waiting room,it would seem that evolution has some powerlifting to do round there way.....

[prebanman]

they look almost like American poor people, but aren't fatties, weird.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Don't be so reactionary ...ts everyones 'right' to beget a battalion of dole scum who in turn spawn a veritable army to continue the hopeless lineage .

I'm sorry Billy what was I thinking. I must be turning into Victor Meldrew

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Judging from the photo, the grandmother and the father had the daughter together; I sense something incestuous going on..

I suspect that, as with a lot of these oxygen thieving spongers, the family tree doesn't branch very much

[Fade]

We have these sorts here too, but our social assistance program is slightly different. They actually require you to go to weekday courses that do useful things like get your resume together, prepare you for interviews, give access to job boards and such. They also actually send you out to apply to a certain amount of jobs per week (20?) and get those employers to sign off that you did indeed apply there for a job. Don't wanna do any of the above? No wellie check for you then.

Might have change since my college days but there ya go.

[Kaapeli]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

The poor have always bred like rabbits.

[Dasein]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

When can you afford to have children? Over the course of 18 years, lots can happen, so one cannot be sure that one will have sufficient income for the course of a child's dependence on you as a parent. Thus, I do not think anyone, save a very few number of exceptionally wealthy, are immune from economic downturns which could render them unable to support a child without assistance.

[Tokamak]

The poor have always bred like rabbits.

Poverty has nothing to do with it, those are just a bunch of lazy people taking advantage of the system.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Problem with long term unemployed is that it extremely hard to get motivated to better yourself and get off welfare.

Once you get in it's extremely hard to get out.

And if your born into such a situation the likely hood of you doing the same is pretty high.

[Afro-European]

In my opinion,people that really deserve "free" hand-outs are:
-Eldery people
-Physically and mentally disabled people
-Disabled military members
-All people that have an handicap due to their work:firemen,police agents,etc
-People that lost their jobs due to privatisations,companies shipping jobs overseas and bankruptcy can get a welfare for 6 months(time for them to get a new job).

For the remaining people i'd say get your lazy fat a$$ up and get a job.

[Afro-European]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

I'd say castrate them.:)

[FelixA9]

Problem with long term unemployed is that it extremely hard to get motivated to better yourself and get off welfare.

Once you get in it's extremely hard to get out.

And if your born into such a situation the likely hood of you doing the same is pretty high.


I'll bet if they were forced to dig ditches or bust rocks for their welfare handout they'd get motivated. :cantbeli:

[a_very_ex_STAB]

When can you afford to have children? Over the course of 18 years, lots can happen, so one cannot be sure that one will have sufficient income for the course of a child's dependence on you as a parent. Thus, I do not think anyone, save a very few number of exceptionally wealthy, are immune from economic downturns which could render them unable to support a child without assistance.

Yeah I understand what you're saying - nothing is certain in life but still when people are thinking about having a family there has to be some kind of economic decision making process about how am I going to support these children. The problem is that generations of families like this one have never had to face the consequences of their actions because there has always been a welfare state to insulate them from the economic realities that people like me (a business owner) have to live with.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I'll bet if they were forced to dig ditches or bust rocks for their welfare handout they'd get motivated. :cantbeli:

I totally agree!!

[Kampfbaer]

I don´t think, that this is an exclusive UK problem, you have third generation welfare recipients (sp?) here in Germany too. And they are more tha a few...

The children learn, that they do not have to work to live and this goes on.

Of course this is just a generalization, and there are also bright and diligent poor people who simply have bad luck.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

When can you afford to have children? Over the course of 18 years, lots can happen, so one cannot be sure that one will have sufficient income for the course of a child's dependence on you as a parent. Thus, I do not think anyone, save a very few number of exceptionally wealthy, are immune from economic downturns which could render them unable to support a child without assistance.

Well I can't speak to conditions in the UK, but here in America, there's a handy government checklist we can use. By simply running through it, one can tell if one is ready.

Look at the mail that arrives at your house. Some of these are called bills. If any of these envelopes are red or pink, you are not ready. If you do not also find a paystub, you are not ready.
Look out into your driveway. Is there a motorcycle? If so, you are not ready. You can become ready by selling it, and putting the money towards buying a house.
Are you sitting in a house you own? If not, you may not be ready.
Does your paystub show a deduction for health care? If not, you are not ready.
Check your soul. If it is pink, spongy and resilient, you are not ready. If it is shriveled, crushed and ground underfoot, you are married, and therefore ready.

[Calanen]

Poverty has nothing to do with it, those are just a bunch of lazy people taking advantage of the system.


I of course don't support what these people do, far from it. I have never been on welfare, and hopefully never will be. Although, at times, things have been pretty dire.

But we have to take ownership of this problem, and from a number of perspectives.

In many countries, the UK is one of them, Australia is another - it is massively tough to get ahead (I wont put the US in that category, I found it much easier to get ahead there). Young people now, have no real prospect of owning their own homes, or ever having much of a different standard of living than if they didnt work at all. So, a lot of people think - why bother - and don't work.

Society is geared so that a small group of people, get most or all the benefits. This is largely hidden, but it is all around us. Insider trading, insider crown land trades, government contracts to friends, casino licenses, lottery licenses. The real wealth, the big wealth, is quarantined to a few key individuals. Huge tracts of mining land, owned by one or two companies to mine for 100s of years. What does the public get from this? Taxes I guess - but those companies hardly pay any tax - with all of their tax incentives and write downs.

There needs to be a fundamental overhaul of the system such that regular people have a chance in these places. Otherwise, things are going to get a lot, lot worse.

[Calanen]

Well I can't speak to conditions in the UK, but here in America, there's a handy government checklist we can use. By simply running through it, one can tell if one is ready.

Look at the mail that arrives at your house. Some of these are called bills. If any of these envelopes are red or pink, you are not ready. If you do not also find a paystub, you are not ready.
Look out into your driveway. Is there a motorcycle? If so, you are not ready. You can become ready by selling it, and putting the money towards buying a house.
Are you sitting in a house you own? If not, you may not be ready.
Does your paystub show a deduction for health care? If not, you are not ready.
Check your soul. If it is pink, spongy and resilient, you are not ready. If it is shriveled, crushed and ground underfoot, you are married, and therefore ready.


I was dealing with some government contractors that built public housing. And I said, these are all two bedroom apartments - what happens if you have, say, 7 kids and are on welfare?

'Oh!' they said 'The Department of Housing builds a custom house for you!'

[SOG]

Whatever happened to the notion that you have children when you can afford to have them and you have the number you can afford!

I have always wondered the very same question since I was a teen. It appears nobody gives a damn anymore.

[Roids]

I have always wondered the very same question since I was a teen. It appears nobody gives a damn anymore.

Assuming that this isn't the "pop out children for a bigger check" scum that we're talking about........

I think it is a combination of stupidity and selfishness. It seems like to me people only have children now to please themselves with bringing the joy of raising children into their lives(......or at least perceived joy), and not realize that at the end of the day it is not about their own feelings that should govern their decisions but a responsibility to raise their children into a productive society. That's what think causes crappy parenting, a view that their joy will always outweigh the difficulties they will face and when reality hits they don't want to play the parent game anymore.

Even if I wanted to have children today, I couldn't imagine myself bringing a child into this world and know I couldn't provide for them the best that I could, to do otherwise would be the complete opposite of proper parenting. If you truly love your children, you should want your child to have the opportunity to have a more successful life than you did, not a worse one.

[T3ngu]

IMO, something else needs to be done, its not mean to support people, but to help them while they are unemployed. For the aussies,

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj249/tengu22/NewPicture.png

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

Livin' the Dream I say!

[LazerLordz]

Those lazy bums need to get drafted.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I don´t think, that this is an exclusive UK problem, you have third generation welfare recipients (sp?) here in Germany too. And they are more tha a few...

The children learn, that they do not have to work to live and this goes on.

Of course this is just a generalization, and there are also bright and diligent poor people who simply have bad luck.

You're right it's not just a UK problem. Lots of places in Europe have the same problem and they certainly have had a lot of it in the USA as well (though I think they have done more to try and stop it in some areas in recent years than we have in the UK)

[sergentdarmes]

It sure is a welfare state problem. I would propose 3 hours community service work and 4 hrs vocational training a day for anyone who never had a job yet, and the same after six months for people who become unemployed.

[Dasein]

It sure is a welfare state problem. I would propose 3 hours community service work and 4 hrs vocational training a day for anyone who never had a job yet, and the same after six months for people who become unemployed.

How many vocations are hiring? All the vocational training won't help if there's no jobs available.

Who pays for the teachers and administrators to handle this? You'd need onsite day care for this to be viable, and that costs more money.

[Calanen]

How many vocations are hiring? All the vocational training won't help if there's no jobs available.

Who pays for the teachers and administrators to handle this? You'd need onsite day care for this to be viable, and that costs more money.

If you want a job in the following places, you can get a job:

- United States;

- Germany

- France;

- UK

- Australia.

It may not be the job you like, or the best job - but its a job.

I would create the Civilian Work Corps, for all of the people on welfare. If they were physically capable of working, they would work for the state - doing community projects like fixing roads. In return for that - they get their dole and public housing. If they stop working, they get nothing. After working for a while on the road gang, they'd be begging to work in the private sector again.

[Dasein]

If you want a job in the following places, you can get a job:

- United States;

- Germany

- France;

- UK

- Australia.

It may not be the job you like, or the best job - but its a job.

I would create the Civilian Work Corps, for all of the people on welfare. If they were physically capable of working, they would work for the state - doing community projects like fixing roads. In return for that - they get their dole and public housing. If they stop working, they get nothing. After working for a while on the road gang, they'd be begging to work in the private sector again.

There's a few problems with that:

1. There's already people who are paid to fix roads, and they belong to unions, who have a fair amount of political and legal clout. There's also the whole issue of how government contracts are awarded - how could any private contracting firm hope to compete with what amounts to government slave labor?

2. Fixing roads is not unskilled labor that just anyone can do. While it's not that difficult to learn, it does require some training, especially operating the heavy machinery involved. You'd also need to comply with OSHA standards and the like.

3. With this welfare labor force, you'd have a group of people with little incentive to work together well or perform quality work. This will greatly degrade work quality and efficiency. I'd really not trust critical infrastructure like roads to a bunch of unmotivated, poorly trained forced laborers.

[Calanen]

There's a few problems with that:

[quote]1. There's already people who are paid to fix roads, and they belong to unions, who have a fair amount of political and legal clout. There's also the whole issue of how government contracts are awarded - how could any private contracting firm hope to compete with what amounts to government slave labor?

The US has had prisoners working fixing roads for years. Didn't bring the empire down.

I'm talking about community work. Maybe its fixing roads. Maybe its picking up trash in the park. Maybe its talking to old people. But its always work.


2. Fixing roads is not unskilled labor that just anyone can do. While it's not that difficult to learn, it does require some training, especially operating the heavy machinery involved. You'd also need to comply with OSHA standards and the like.

I'm not going to get them to build another Santa Monica overpass. Just fill potholes.


3. With this welfare labor force, you'd have a group of people with little incentive to work together well or perform quality work. This will greatly degrade work quality and efficiency. I'd really not trust critical infrastructure like roads to a bunch of unmotivated, poorly trained forced laborers.

If they dont perform, they dont get paid.

It's not slave labor. Its just labor. If they want to work for private enterprise they can. If they dont, they can work for the state. But they dont get a free ride.

Or how about this - the people who select on a ballot that people do get a free ride - can use THEIR taxes - like say you Dasein - and the other people who dont want to contribute to the welfare gravy train, can pay say, 10 per cent less tax. Or 20.

[Tokamak]

How many vocations are hiring? All the vocational training won't help if there's no jobs available.

Who pays for the teachers and administrators to handle this? You'd need onsite day care for this to be viable, and that costs more money.

There are plenty of jobs in this country. People like that don't progress because they don't want to, as simple as that. A lot of immigrants come to this country and thrive without even speaking English.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Lets put it another way.

Currently I'm on Sickness Benefits which is a benefit for people who for legitimate reasons can not work. People here know of my condition so I'm not going to go into details needless to say being on welfare is not as easy as people think.

As of this moment I have 2 debt collectors letters, a credit card, personal loan I am financially ****ed.

My "benefit" is $515.00 a fortnight. AND for the foreseeable future anyway that could potentially be my income (adjusted for inflation for the rest of my life.

Thankfully I'm now back living with my parents under their care as I have lost the ability to feed, wash, and to look after my affairs in a responsible way.

My benefit WOULD NOT cover the weekly rent of my previous house in Sydney which was $510.00 per week. On top of this I have medication, doctors appointments, specialist appointments, car registration (I need a car in Newcastle) education possibly in the future to enable me to work with my illness.

Now thankfully I am going through the processes of removing my debt(s) however I haven't been paying them at all since last November. I lost my job in October and did not receive any government help until January this year until I had spent my severance payment.

Now with all this that $515.00 does not go a long way.

People may think living off welfare is a walk in the park. I've got news for you it's not.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

But on the plus side being on welfare does teach a person to be very frugal with their money.

I reckon everyone should be forced to live on it for 12 months.

[Tokamak]

Lets put it another way.

Currently I'm on Sickness Benefits which is a benefit for people who for legitimate reasons can not work. People here know of my condition so I'm not going to go into details needless to say being on welfare is not as easy as people think.

As of this moment I have 2 debt collectors letters, a credit card, personal loan I am financially ****ed.

My "benefit" is $515.00 a fortnight. AND for the foreseeable future anyway that could potentially be my income (adjusted for inflation for the rest of my life.

Thankfully I'm now back living with my parents under their care as I have lost the ability to feed, wash, and to look after my affairs in a responsible way.

My benefit WOULD NOT cover the weekly rent of my previous house in Sydney which was $510.00 per week. On top of this I have medication, doctors appointments, specialist appointments, car registration (I need a car in Newcastle) education possibly in the future to enable me to work with my illness.

Now thankfully I am going through the processes of removing my debt(s) however I haven't been paying them at all since last November. I lost my job in October and did not receive any government help until January this year until I had spent my severance payment.

Now with all this that $515.00 does not go a long way.

People may think living off welfare is a walk in the park. I've got news for you it's not.


Sorry to hear that, I hope you get well soon. There are people who actually need help like in your case, I think nobody would complain about that but people like those in the report I really doubt they have faced the same problems that you did.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Whether they have faced the same problems or not is not the point. The point is welfare barely covers living expenses let alone having any semblance of a quality life.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

But on the plus side being on welfare does teach a person to be very frugal with their money.

I reckon everyone should be forced to live on it for 12 months.

Huh?
So does working for a living - especially if you're working for crap wages in an expensive area of the country like I had to do when I was younger!!!!

I don't know what it's like in Australia but there's plenty of work available here in the UK. There's just a load of lazy bastards who don't want to get off their fat arses and start contributing instead of just consuming.

Personally I think it would be good for the planet if we recycled the lazy ****ers and reduced the population a bit.

[Fade]

Whether they have faced the same problems or not is not the point. The point is welfare barely covers living expenses let alone having any semblance of a quality life.
It really doesn't pay for much, no. Quite often, the basic living allowance here does not even cover your rent....let alone food, utilities, and other basic necessities. A vehicle is pretty much out of the question. We tend to have a lot of fraud here (check got stolen and get a second one, or work under the table yet still collect, or deal drugs and still collect) and I can't help but wonder what things would be like for those who genuinely need it if there wasn't so much fraud - and the resources available to the Ministry could go further.

I hope things get better for ya Min.

[MaDuce]

I hear the Chav subspeicies of the UK specializes in over breeding at a young age to collect benifits....

[Calanen]

Whether they have faced the same problems or not is not the point. The point is welfare barely covers living expenses let alone having any semblance of a quality life.

But if you lived in a housing commission place, with all your bills paid for you. And other sources of cash income...would not be so bad. Or if you lived in a far north coastal town.

You have to admit, there are plenty of people who choose it as a lifestyle, and a generational lifestyle. I am not talking about people who cannot work..I am talking about people who can work but couldnt be assed.

[Calanen]

I don't know what it's like in Australia but there's plenty of work available here in the UK. There's just a load of lazy bastards who don't want to get off their fat arses and start contributing instead of just consuming.


Major labor shortages here - across the board. Cafes, bars, everything cannot get enough labor. So there is no excuse not to work in Australia.

But everyone wants to be the boss on the first day....

[DS73]

Those lazy bums need to get drafted.

Better not.
They would be horrible soldiers. Besides such 'why bother' families (usually quite simple minded if not retarded people) there is quite a big bunch of the 'snatch' type of families who also sack benefits. I wonder who is worse.

[DS73]

It sure is a welfare state problem. I would propose 3 hours community service work and 4 hrs vocational training a day for anyone who never had a job yet, and the same after six months for people who become unemployed.

You will need supervisors and mentor guys being paid for that. And not just somebody but people with police and mentoring skills. Heck even regular police doesn't get enough of such people lately.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I hear the Chav subspeicies of the UK specializes in over breeding at a young age to collect benifits....

As in any other country where there is a welfare system - USA included