BM-21 Firing at night

[snapper]

BM 21 firing at night (http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/3164)

[Marmot1]

heh amazing firepower...

[snapper]

It sure is aint it! ;)

[American Patriot]

I like my MLRS's tracked.

[deutschersoldat]

who the **** is the clown under your pictue american patriot

[American Patriot]

under my picture? you?

[Javehn]

Only 4 posts for a flame war :roll:

[snapper]

who the f*** is the clown under your pictue american patriot

Totally inapropriate Mr, give it up. This post starts with a picture of a Bm 21, if your not interested back off and leave the people who are to it.

p-)

[ZeroPositive]

who the f*** is the clown under your pictue american patriot
I sense you are in need of Anger management :)

Yeah nice picture always amazing to see photos of equipment in action...
Hate to be on the receiving end of that barrage.

[usa320]

BM-21's suck.

American MLRS are way better... More firepower...plus more accurate.

[GazB]

I like my MLRS's tracked.

Yes, because that makes them bigger, slower and more expensive to buy and operate, while allowing them to keep up with tanks cross country... where they never operate.

[OB Kenobi]

BM-21's suck.

American MLRS are way better... More firepower...plus more accurate.

Something I read on another forum recently, make sure you read the last paragraph about the BM-21...

The 300mm Smerch MRL is pretty advanced. The standard Smerch rocket has a maximum range of 70km (far more than standard MLRS), it is fitted with either a warhead containing 72 HEF sub munitions or a HEF separable unitary warhead. It can also be fitted with a warhead containing five Bazalt MOTIV-3F anti-armor sub munitions. These ‘smart’ sub munitions have dual-color infrared sensors for terminal guidance and kinetic energy fragment warheads, which are said to be able to penetrate 70mm of armor at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal.
A new projectile has been developed, which uses a high-energy composite propellant, which will give an increased range of 90km, and a new warhead that scatters 25 anti-tank mines.
It has been reported that a miniature aerial vehicle, R-90, containing a stabilized camera is being developed which could be fired from the Smerch launcher, enabling real-time battlefield surveillance data to be relayed to the Smerch commander. The aerial vehicle, which uses GPS (Global Positioning System), has the same 70km range as the standard rocket and can transmit data for up to 30 minutes.

This is just a sample of the features of Russian MRLs, and most of these features are also available to the BM-21 Grad. A new 40km range rocket for the Grad has been introduced, as well as a variety of new warheads: cluster warhead carrying anti-tank mines, a cluster warhead with antipersonnel mines, a smoke-generating warhead, a jammer payload operating in the HF and VHF bands, an air-target simulator, and anti-armor self-guided sub munitions. The control system of the Grad has been automated, including the addition of satellite aided navigation

[Abbyy]

BM-21's suck.

American MLRS are way better... More firepower...plus more accurate.

Something I read on another forum recently, make sure you read the last paragraph about the BM-21...

The 300mm Smerch MRL is pretty advanced. The standard Smerch rocket has a maximum range of 70km (far more than standard MLRS), it is fitted with either a warhead containing 72 HEF sub munitions or a HEF separable unitary warhead. It can also be fitted with a warhead containing five Bazalt MOTIV-3F anti-armor sub munitions. These ‘smart’ sub munitions have dual-color infrared sensors for terminal guidance and kinetic energy fragment warheads, which are said to be able to penetrate 70mm of armor at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal.
A new projectile has been developed, which uses a high-energy composite propellant, which will give an increased range of 90km, and a new warhead that scatters 25 anti-tank mines.
It has been reported that a miniature aerial vehicle, R-90, containing a stabilized camera is being developed which could be fired from the Smerch launcher, enabling real-time battlefield surveillance data to be relayed to the Smerch commander. The aerial vehicle, which uses GPS (Global Positioning System), has the same 70km range as the standard rocket and can transmit data for up to 30 minutes.

This is just a sample of the features of Russian MRLs, and most of these features are also available to the BM-21 Grad. A new 40km range rocket for the Grad has been introduced, as well as a variety of new warheads: cluster warhead carrying anti-tank mines, a cluster warhead with antipersonnel mines, a smoke-generating warhead, a jammer payload operating in the HF and VHF bands, an air-target simulator, and anti-armor self-guided sub munitions. The control system of the Grad has been automated, including the addition of satellite aided navigation

usa320 seems to be owned :)

Maybe BM-21 not so advanced, but it is light MRLS system. Cheap and reliable. Quite effective (escpecially against Chinese troops :) )

For advanced functionality see Smerch.

[Ghostwolf]

The U.S. ATACMS is also advanced, and combat proven as well. It uses GPS and INS
as primary guidance, and it can be fitted with either the M79 AP/AM bomblet, the BAT
antiarmor submunitions and 500lb. unitary HE warhead. The Block IA and Block IIA
version has a maximum range up to 300 km, which is more than that of the BM-9A52
Smerch's 90 km maximum range (Block I: 165 km, Block IA: 300 km, Block II: 140 km,
Block IIA: 300 km, Block IVA with unitary warhead: 300 km)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/mlrs-atacms.jpg

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/mgm-140c.jpg

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/mgm-140-family.jpg

[snapper]

Thats good info, thanks buddy. :P

[perdurabo]

but MLRS and BM21 are two diffrent class rocet artilery! MLRS is heavy and BM21/RM70 light system so you cant match them its like matching SVD with Barrett big fifty....

[Marmot1]

but MLRS and BM21 are two diffrent class rocet artilery! MLRS is heavy and BM21/RM70 light system so you cant match them its like matching SVD with Barrett big fifty....
yep its like comparing 60mm mortar with 120mm one...

Anyway I heard poland will buy new Feniks (Phoenix) rockets to our BM-21 anyone have more info about it???


Edit: here is pic of BM-21 ammo (no not polish)
http://www.army.fr.pl/link.php?k=inne&plik=122.jpg

[perdurabo]

but MLRS and BM21 are two diffrent class rocet artilery! MLRS is heavy and BM21/RM70 light system so you cant match them its like matching SVD with Barrett big fifty....
yep its like comparing 60mm mortar with 120mm one...

Anyway I heard poland will buy new Feniks (Phoenix) rockets to our BM-21 anyone have more info about it???


Edit: here is pic of BM-21 ammo (no not polish)
http://www.army.fr.pl/link.php?k=inne&plik=122.jpg
Not much maybe REMOV...
i only know that they have better range (two times bigger than normal rocket for BM21) and warhead with electronical stuff in it ....

[thatguy96]

In my opinion the Russians still have the US beat in the area of rocket artillery. Mainly because they feel no need to make things more complicated than nessecary: What do you need? A large caliber area-effect weapon that is light and transportable. Done. Is it accurate? Accurate enough if you fire 20 rockets at the target. How much do the rockets cost per? Seeing as their steel tubes with a fuze, fins and explosive, not that much. Fine. Can they be upgraded to be more percise in the future? Perhaps. Okay.

Why isn't this an adequet response?

M270 more accurate? Quite possibly, but I'm sorry, we're talking about an area-effect cluster munition, designed to basically soil a large area with explosions, how accuate do we really need to be? Artillery is not a percision weapon, it is a suppressive fire weapon (and in the case of rocket artillery its a gigantic suppressive fire weapon). The US Army has become so dependant on the doctrine of victory through superior firepower, that artillery's accuracy is being brought into question in ways that, in my opinion, aren't relevant. Why should artillery be expected to be accurate enough to shell a city and only blow up the houses you want? You either need to resign yourself to leveling the target, or going in and fighting it out house to house. You can't expect some guy miles away with a 155mm howitzer to get the job done with that level of detail. His howitzer isn't a sniper rifle. Artillery's primary job has never been to kill people, but to have them [your enemy] ****ting their pants so you either don't have to or its really easy.

If you're talking about putting 1000 lbs of explosives on a target does it really matter if its right on the money or 100 yards to the left?

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

but MLRS and BM21 are two diffrent class rocet artilery! MLRS is heavy and BM21/RM70 light system so you cant match them its like matching SVD with Barrett big fifty....
yep its like comparing 60mm mortar with 120mm one...

Anyway I heard poland will buy new Feniks (Phoenix) rockets to our BM-21 anyone have more info about it???

Feniks (or Feniks-Z) has new rocket engine (made by Roxel) , range incerased to 40km, and can carries a cluster warhead.

In 2004 army will buy ca. 400 Feniks rockets.

[Maciek]

MLRS and BM21 are two diffrent class rocet artilery

U.S. MLRS == Russian 220mm 9P140 Uragan (Hurricane)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/9p140.htm
U.S. ATACMS == Russian SS-21 SCARAB (9K79 Tochka)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-21.htm

[Russian Texan]

I think these were posted before but they are nice vids and serve as a great illustration for the topic

Grad (Hailstorm) 122 mm
Grad in Chechnya
http://pvo.guns.ru/weapon/images/mosb106_full.jpg
For the friend

http://pvo.guns.ru/weapon/images/capt_russia_chechnya_gq4.jpg
http://www.aviation.ru/www.rusarm.ru/video/Grad_MLRS.wmv

Uragan (Hurricane) 220 mm
http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/rs/9p140-1.jpg
http://www.arsenal.odessa.ua/arms/technic/uragan/

Smerch (Tornado) 300 mm
http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/rs/9a52-2-2.jpg
http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/rs/9a52-2-3.jpg
http://www.aviation.ru/www.rusarm.ru/video/9K58_Smerch_MLRS.wmv

Comparing Grad or Smerch to something with a range of 300 km is absolutely incorrect, that falls into SCUD missile category

[snapper]

Wow!! thats some piece of kit. :P

[Marmot1]

In my opinion the Russians still have the US beat in the area of rocket artillery. Mainly because they feel no need to make things more complicated than nessecary: What do you need? A large caliber area-effect weapon that is light and transportable. Done. Is it accurate? Accurate enough if you fire 20 rockets at the target. How much do the rockets cost per? Seeing as their steel tubes with a fuze, fins and explosive, not that much. Fine. Can they be upgraded to be more percise in the future? Perhaps. Okay.

Why isn't this an adequet response?

M270 more accurate? Quite possibly, but I'm sorry, we're talking about an area-effect cluster munition, designed to basically soil a large area with explosions, how accuate do we really need to be? Artillery is not a percision weapon, it is a suppressive fire weapon (and in the case of rocket artillery its a gigantic suppressive fire weapon). The US Army has become so dependant on the doctrine of victory through superior firepower, that artillery's accuracy is being brought into question in ways that, in my opinion, aren't relevant. Why should artillery be expected to be accurate enough to shell a city and only blow up the houses you want? You either need to resign yourself to leveling the target, or going in and fighting it out house to house. You can't expect some guy miles away with a 155mm howitzer to get the job done with that level of detail. His howitzer isn't a sniper rifle. Artillery's primary job has never been to kill people, but to have them [your enemy] ****ting their pants so you either don't have to or its really easy.

If you're talking about putting 1000 lbs of explosives on a target does it really matter if its right on the money or 100 yards to the left?

about 1500$ per rocket.... But my data can be wrong...

[thatguy96]

$1500 for a standard BM-21 rocket? That's still a fairly good price for what you're getting.

[OB Kenobi]

If you really insist on a tracked rocket launcher, you can put one on an old surplus T-72.

220mm TOS-1-4 Buratino

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/585/58Buratino_Flamethrower.jpg

I like the Iraqi donkey cart version too. Stealthy, with alot of firepower, and disposable. :D

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/iraq_donk_cp_5195848.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/iraq_cp_5196029.jpg

[GazB]

American MLRS are way better... More firepower...plus more accurate.

Actually the 300mm Smerch rockets have course correction guidance systems to maintain accuracy at max range, which is currently 90km.

The Americans are also replacing their tube artillery with Rockets whereas the Russians suppliment their artillery with rockets. Rockets are a great way of saturating an area with HE and fragments... or more sinisterly they are a great way of introducing a very high concentration of Chem or bio weapons in a small area (which makes them more effective), and they are also a great way of quickly laying down a minefield behind enemy units but there are many jobs tube artillery still does better.


Maybe BM-21 not so advanced, but it is light MRLS system. Cheap and reliable.

Cheap enought to be used in the numbers required to make it effective.


Comparing Grad or Smerch to something with a range of 300 km is absolutely incorrect, that falls into SCUD missile category

The SS-21 Tochka or Isklander categories actually. And very few MRLS units will have the recon range to exploit the range of ATCMs so you are taking weapon systems away from commanders and giving control of them to higher positions... but they replaced that commanders tube artillery... what is he going to use? Multi million dollar ATCMs to cover a target a normal MRLS would have been used for anyway?

(BTW the RPV is fully operational as are jamming rounds for the Russian calibre rockets from 122mm to 300mm made in joint venture with Bulgaria.)

[Hrvoje]

"Vulkan" from Croatia

http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/fotogallery/big_pictures/razgl-5.jpg

[Hrvoje]

Some more from Cro.

http://www.naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/tajfun1.jpg

http://www.naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/tajfun2.jpg

http://www.naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/tajfun3.jpg

[Marmot1]

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/iraq_donk_cp_5195848.jpg
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Slovakian made RM-70 MORAK is interesting. It can carry a standard BM-21 launcher, or HIMARS system (single MLRS container). Launchers could be changed in field conditions.

http://www.mod.gov.sk/e-ziny/sar/2002_winter/06.html

[tomcat1974]

Joint Romanian - Israeli project..
http://defence-data.com/storypic/larom.jpg
LAROM is an advanced upgrade of the existing APRA-40 system (a GRAD launcher for 40 rockets of 122mm) mounted on a Romanian-built DAC APRA 40 truck. The existing system is in Romanian military service.
LAROM provides a substantial upgrade of the hydraulic, stabilisation and fire control systems and has the added capability of launching both standard 122mm and IMI's LAR 160mm family of rockets from 26 launch tubes in two tactical launch pod containers. It also has future growth potential to accommodate IMI's ACCULAR Trajectory Corrected Rockets.

LAROM has been demonstrated in live firings of LAR Mk.4, a 45 km range rocket with a cluster payload of IMI's dual effect AP/AM bomblets. A single LAROM launcher can fire 40 GRAD rockets in 20 seconds or 26 LAR Mk.4 rockets in 45 seconds. Each LAR disperses 104 bomblets in a circular 200m diameter footprint.

The tactical computer (GTAC, FTAC or ATAC) has an advanced man-machine interface that reduces crew workload and allows quick and effortless actuation of the aiming and sighting main controls and weapons systems of the launcher. It also allows computerised feed-back reaction for corrections between the launcher, advanced observer and commander's point. The Fire Control Unit (FCU) is operated from the truck cabin or from a nearby shelter by a remote control 50m cable.

http://www.aerostar.ro/Images/news10-2m.jpg
http://www.aerostar.ro/Images/Galerie/LaromM07.jpg
http://www.aerostar.ro/Images/Galerie/LaromM05.jpg
http://www.aerostar.ro/Images/Galerie/LaromM08.jpg
http://www.aerostar.ro/Images/Galerie/LaromM02.jpg

[snapper]

Nice pix.

[RAJPUT22]

The BM-21 has proved its mettle during the Kargil War even it was considered outdated by that time so stop fucI***g about whether us MLRS are better .