Canadian natives to protest 2010 Vancouver Olympic

[ocean]

Canadian native leaders consider Olympic protests

By BILL CURRY, STEVEN CHASE and JOE FRIESEN
Toronto Globe and Mail
2008-04-18 00:00:00

http://photo.worldnews.com/PhotoArchive//2008/04/18/72b44775f9ed573a44889bd7c76fc640-grande.jpg

OTTAWA and WINNIPEG, Manitoba -- Native leaders in Canada are warning that the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics will be marked by bridge blockades, airport disruptions and Internet campaigns if they don't see significant progress on aboriginal poverty and land claims.

British Columbia native leaders are drafting plans with an escalating scenario of options, beginning with peaceful pamphleteering and increasing to more disruptive tactics.

Other aboriginal leaders will specifically cite the Vancouver Olympics next week in New York when they present a report to the United Nations that says the Games will provide an opportunity to promote Canadian indigenous issues.

The growing international protests directed toward China's treatment of Tibet heading into the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing is not lost on Canada's aboriginal community, which is seeking ways to rally a similar global movement in its favor.

Phil Fontaine, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said the Vancouver Olympics provide an opportunity to raise awareness, but he opposes any protest that would disrupt the Games. During a recent news conference announcing May 29 as a national day of action against aboriginal poverty, he mused about the similarities between China's treatment of Tibet and Canada's treatment of aboriginals.

"The situation here is compelling enough to convince Canadians that while it is okay and right for them to express outrage with the Chinese government's position against Tibet and the Tibetans, they should be just as outraged, if not more so, about our situation here," Fontaine said.

Other native leaders say there will be disruptions; insisting their plans will be peaceful and aimed at avoiding violence or arousing negative sentiment among non-natives.

David Dennis, vice-president of the United Native Nations, a group that represents B.C.'s off-reserve native people, said organizers are already planning non-violent protests that will cause massive disruption to the Games.

"I wouldn't rule out blockades, I wouldn't rule out mass demonstrations, I wouldn't rule out a blockade (of the airport)," he said.

Dennis, a former member of the West Coast Warrior Society, said the national day of action in May will test natives' organizational skills, but the protests will likely begin in earnest next February, a year from the start of the Olympics, and continue right through the Games.

"I can't imagine anything shutting it down, unless it's Canada going in and doing mass pre-emptive arrests before the 2010 Games. It'll continue right through the Games. For as long as there's an international reporter around, it's our responsibility to let them know what's going on," he said.

Chief Wayne Christian of the Shuswap National Tribal Council in B.C. said protests could include rail blockades or Internet campaigns or even visiting an international bond rating agency such as Standard & Poor's Corp. to cast doubt on the credit rating of B.C., where many native land claims remain unsettled.

"What we need to do is educate the world," Christian said, adding, however, that natives must find ways to protest that don't spur a backlash.

Grand Chief Doug Kelly of the Sto:lo Tribal Council in British Columbia said B.C. chiefs are drafting an action strategy to put pressure on Ottawa and the B.C. government to make progress on land claims, resource-revenue sharing and aboriginal poverty.

He said chiefs are planning activism around big events over the coming months and years, including the 150th anniversary of B.C.'s founding as a colony, as well as the next provincial and federal elections.

"The world is coming to visit in 2010. The message that's provided to the visitors that come to Greater Vancouver for the Winter Olympics depends entirely on how the province of British Columbia and the government of Canada address our issues," Kelly said.

David Emerson, the federal Conservative minister responsible for the 2010 Winter Games, urged all would-be dissidents to "think twice about contaminating that opportunity for all Canadians to present themselves to the world."

He said protests could ruin Canada's showcasing efforts.

"It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity for Canada to assert itself on the global stage, to show where Canada has been, where we are going and present ourselves to the world in a way that causes people to respect what Canada and Canadians are all about. And any kind of negative activity like that detracts, and could somewhat contaminate, the impression people get."

Former British Columbia native chief Arthur Manuel said he will be taking a report to the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues in New York next week that specifically calls for a link between aboriginal issues and the Vancouver Games.

"I think demonstrations are essential," said Manuel, who is the spokesman for the Indigenous Network on Economies and Trade.

"Any country that hosts any Winter or Summer Olympics puts in question its human rights record. Canada has a very dismal human-rights record in relation to indigenous people."



http://article.wn.com/view/2008/04/18/Canadian_native_leaders_consider_Olympic_protests/

[Roy Batty]

Colour me suprised. :roll:

[Mr.Flint]

What a nice way into making the country hate them....

[ocean]

Are the natives historically closer to French or English?

[Roy Batty]

That would depend on their specific tribe. As well the discord between us all is an Whites vs Aborigionals in this case and not an Anglo vs Franco issue (like Que and the rest of Canada).

[ronaldo413]

well free tibet version

[dava]

Haha. Priceless!
(drawing a Free Native Canada - avatar)

[gammbino]

Free it from what? Last I heard, the Queen wasn't making any claims to Canada.

[Roy Batty]

Free it from what? Last I heard, the Queen wasn't making any claims to Canada.

She does'nt need to make any claims. She's our Queen.

[Rudolph]

oh, brother.... why are natives always restless? thought they were lazy?

[randomguy]

First of all, winter Olympics don't matter, secondly Natives arnt closer to English or French, historically they have been ****ed over by both sides.

[Roy Batty]

I'de rather watch Winter than Summer Olympics....but thats just my opinion.

[Marshall_Nord]

They were displaced, they lost. Get over it.

Such are the ways of civilization.

[dava]

Free it from what? Last I heard, the Queen wasn't making any claims to Canada.

From the non-native canadians ofcourse!
Clearly, Canada has overrun native lands with non-natives.
I d say expel all non-natives from native's land (the ones they claim) so they can rightfully preserve their own culture.

Now the only thing we need is a canadian native dalai lama and the story is complete ;)

[gammbino]

She does'nt need to make any claims. She's our Queen.

You're still not a republic yet?? Maybe the natives should get their own country....

[Roy Batty]

.....Canada has overrun native lands with non-natives.
I d say expel all non-natives from native's land (the ones they claim).......

The sad thing is if you lay all their land claims out on a map they are claiming over 110% of the country between their bands (their claims overlap). So somebody must be lying ;).

I say give them Quebec.

[Roy Batty]

You're still not a republic yet?? Maybe the natives should get their own country....


A federation now comprising ten provinces and three territories, Canada is a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy, with Queen Elizabeth II as its head of state.......................................................The country is a parliamentary democracy with a federal system of parliamentary government and strong democratic traditions. The constitution is the supreme law of the country, and consists of written text and unwritten conventions..............................................................................................................Executive authority is constitutionally vested in the monarch, but is in practice exercised by the Cabinet, a committee of the Queen's Privy Council, through the monarch's representative, the Governor General. As the monarch and viceroy stay apolitical and predominantly ceremonial in order to ensure the stability of government – by convention almost invariably deferring all governmental matters to their ministers in the Cabinet, who are themselves responsible to the elected House of Commons – real executive power is said to lie with the Cabinet, though the monarch and Governor General do retain the right to use discretionary powers in exceptional constitutional crisis situations. The Prime Minister, generally the leader of the political party that commands the confidence of the House of Commons, is appointed by the Governor General to select and head the Cabinet; thus, the Prime Minister's Office is one of the most powerful organs of government, responsible for selecting, besides the other Cabinet members, Senators, federal court judges, heads of Crown corporations and government agencies, and the federal and provincial viceroys for appointment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

[Clayton Gold]

British Columbia native leaders are drafting plans with an escalating scenario of options, beginning with peaceful pamphleteering and increasing to more disruptive tactics.Jeezus - these groups always think of such great ways to gain support and help their cause. :roll:

Looking inward would be the best start for many aboriginal groups in Canada. They are given all the resources they ask for, and their own leaders pocket it, time & time again.

[gammbino]

I know what a constitutional monarchy is. I just figured with it being 2008 you would have cut loose the shackles of your colonial oppressors by now.

[Roy Batty]

Hell no. Still happily a member of the Commonwealth.

[ocean]

We should say thank God there is no Olympic coming to US soon.

[Doggonit55]

I'm a native Canadian. As in, I was born in Canada. I won't protest, I promise.

As for the whole Commonwealth/Constitutional Monarchy issue: Long live the Queen!

[ocean]

Police were poised to crack down on native protest, documents show
OPP were prepared to move in, even on children, protester says
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 | 4:33 AM ET Comments240Recommend98CBC News
Teams of heavily armed police were poised to crack down on native demonstrators who erected blockades during a day of protest in eastern Ontario in June, CBC News has learned.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/03/25/dayofacton2-cp-3216588.jpg
Mohawk protestors sit around a bonfire on Highway 2 near Deseronto, Ont., on June 29.
(Tom Hanson/Canadian Press)
CBC's The Current obtained a series of notes handwritten by Ontario Provincial Police officers that describe how Commissioner Julian Fantino planned a morning raid of the blockades set up overnight on June 28 on Highway 401, Highway 2 and a CN Rail line in the Kingston area.

The raid ultimately did not happen, and protesters removed the blockades peacefully later in the day on June 29. Mohawk protest leader Shawn Brant surrendered to police and was charged with mischief and other offences.

But the notes, written in the early morning hours of June 29, described the situation at times as "anarchy" and said Fantino "would not/could not tolerate the 401 being closed all day." The notes ask how long before the force would "lose credibility" over the situation.

The notes describe how the police tactical rescue unit, the special weapons and tactics (SWAT) team, the emergency response team and the public order unit (riot squad) were all on standby on the night of June 28. A police helicopter and aircraft were also keeping tabs on protesters.

But according to the notes, Fantino decided to give the commander on site, Carson Pardy, the final call.

"I'm not about to put people at risk for a piece of pavement," Pardy is quoted as saying in the notes, which describe how officers would be put at risk in a crackdown.

The Current asked on four separate occasions for interviews with Fantino on the subject, but was refused.

"Since the matter is currently before the courts, it would be inappropriate for the OPP to become engaged in a discussion regarding any details," OPP Insp. David Ross said in a statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/03/25/brant-cp-3200934.jpg
Mohawk protester Shawn Brant will go on trial in January.
(Jonathan Hayward/Canadian Press)
Brant's trial is set to begin in January. At the time of the protest, he said he wanted a peaceful demonstration, but warned that he had weapons nearby if needed.

"We're not going to be fired upon and not be in a position to defend ourselves," he said at the time. "That's not going to happen. But we're certainly not going to fire the first shot."

Fantino, meanwhile, had vowed at the time to do his utmost to keep the protest peaceful.

Fantino warned of looming confrontation: protester
Native protesters have backed up allegations that the OPP were prepared to use force.

Mohawk Mandy Smart said she saw heavily armed police gathering in the area and heard reports from other protesters about similar sightings.

She said she met with Fantino at the OPP detachment in the town of Napanee, west of Kingston, at 2:30 a.m. ET on June 29, and he told her how concerned he was that Highway 401, between Belleville and Napanee, was blocked.

She stressed that there were children involved in the blockade and that peace was needed.

"The things that came out in that conversation was that [Fantino] did promise that if [protesters] did not remove themselves from the blockade by 6 a.m., that it would end in confrontation, absolutely," she told CBC News.

"He did not care if there were men, women or children behind those lines, because they chose to be there."

Blockades part of larger Day of Action
The blockades were designed to choke off the main transportation route for much of Canada's goods, in the hopes that it would cost the Canadian economy millions of dollars. The disruption was supposed to highlight the ongoing land disputes between native communities and Canadian governments.

In addition to the Highway 401 blockade, barricades were set up across a CN Rail line and Highway 2 near Deseronto, about 50 kilometres west of Kingston. The move prompted CN to suspend all rail service on the Montreal-Toronto corridor.

Traffic returned to normal on the 401 by 11 a.m. on June 29, but the other two blockades remained until almost midnight.

The blockades were part of a larger aboriginal Day of Action that involved a variety of peaceful protests across the country.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/03/25/native-protest.html

Anyone has comment on this incident? Were they setting up blockades to get some land?

[cagey veteran]

They were displaced, they lost. Get over it.

Such are the ways of civilization.

this thread is so full of pure racism it is sickening. I do not even know where to start. what do know is that if the Pope can apologize to the first Nations....-granted an identity undr our own Charter of rights and freedoms.... then so should the Canandian Gov't. Fontaine wrote in the Toronto Star This week a Guidline on exactly how the Gov't can apologise to start to make amends...I hope someone mans up soon!! Sorry boys but I am a WASP, and I will side with our First Nations

[MapleLeafUp]

None of you ever lived on the Rez so you should all **** off. My family served Canada in ww2 as native soldiers and were betrayed at the end of ww2 because they were just" indians" . My people have lost hundreds of thousands of acres of land to the white men so that they can make ski hills and golf courses for rich whites. So too you racist dogs i hope you loose your land and are forced into poverty.

[boone]

None of you ever lived on the Rez so you should all **** off. My family served Canada in ww2 as native soldiers and were betrayed at the end of ww2 because they were just" indians" . My people have lost hundreds of thousands of acres of land to the white men so that they can make ski hills and golf courses for rich whites. So too you racist dogs i hope you loose your land and are forced into poverty.
Ok: This pertains to the Olympics how?
and if you say "The Rez" one more time I'm kicking you in the balls.

[Erik.]

please continue to blame the white man for everything wrong with your life. Just wondering how long ago were you're lands taken from you? How long ago were you're people thrust into poverty?

[MapleLeafUp]

The Rez.....

[MapleLeafUp]

please continue to blame the white man for everything wrong with your life. Just wondering how long ago were you're lands taken from you? How long ago were you're people thrust into poverty?


My people have been living in poverty since the whiteman came, and yeah we can blame the whiteman. It wasnt anyone else that came to take our lands.

[ren0312]

None of you ever lived on the Rez so you should all **** off. My family served Canada in ww2 as native soldiers and were betrayed at the end of ww2 because they were just" indians" . My people have lost hundreds of thousands of acres of land to the white men so that they can make ski hills and golf courses for rich whites. So too you racist dogs i hope you loose your land and are forced into poverty.

Would you want to have the oil sands with that?p-)

[boone]

My people have been living in poverty since the whiteman came, and yeah we can blame the whiteman. It wasnt anyone else that came to take our lands.
Now you're just perpetuating a stereotype: "Oh! The evil white man! Look what he did to us!" Suck it up, bitch. Look inward for solutions. Help your people help themselves, because believe me, no one else gives a **** in Canada.

[Dragunov]

oh, brother.... why are natives always restless? thought they were lazy?

Precise comment . A great example of that would be the Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs. They were too lazy to build pyramids.

[boone]

Precise comment . A great example of that would be the Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs. They were too lazy to build pyramids.
I thought aliens built the pyramids?
Lazy Indians couldn't have.......musta been aliens.

[Erik.]

My people have been living in poverty since the whiteman came, and yeah we can blame the whiteman. It wasnt anyone else that came to take our lands.

I assume you mean the people still on "The Rez" are still living in poverty. I hate to say it but you're not going to quit living in poverty unless you get off "The Rez" and make a living like everyone else in this world. No ones giving your land back it's worth to much money.

[Mr.Flint]

I find it interesting that its still the whitemans fault when the goverment, or the land owners, or the people impacted by the useless protests, is not uniformly white anymore?
Who is it gonna be next?
Thanks to Mr.Ahenakew we already know that its the jews fault too...
But who is next? Asians? South Asians?

[boone]

I hate to say it but you're not going to quit living in poverty unless you get off "The Rez" and make a living like everyone else in this world.
You didn't hate to say that at all.....you've been waiting for the opportunity to.


I find it interesting that its still the whitemans fault when the goverment, or the land owners, or the people impacted by the useless protests, is not uniformly white anymore?
Who is it gonna be next?
Thanks to Mr.Ahenakew we already know that its the jews fault too...
But who is next? Asians? South Asians?
Whoever. We'll make a throne of their skulls.

[Erik.]

You didn't hate to say that at all.....you've been waiting for the opportunity to.



Damn, caught me.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

Oh shiat, this isnt the Tibet thread? Oops...

[Mr.Flint]

Whoever. We'll make a throne of their skulls.
Will there be torture and stoned dancing first? you know like in the old days? p-)

[boone]

Will there be torture and stoned dancing first? you know like in the old days? p-)
Maybe slavery, Warfare, piracy and cannibalism.
No stoned dancing tho....

[Mr.Flint]

Maybe slavery, Warfare, piracy and cannibalism.
No stoned dancing tho....
Aww, im out then, its no fun without the stoned dancing...

[cagey veteran]

Still up...I wrote an educational piece here for some of the idiocracy but it was lost. having said that...some of you are right out of it man! Do you have any idea about residential schools and the impact that has had many genertions of a once proud collection of peoples. yes sir, ethnic cleansing in Canada...stopped in the early 80's. I am not going to force feed people that facts here (ugly ugly truth) but please get out of the stereotypical attitude you have been brainwashed into and do a good 40 hrs of research....the whole issue is one of Canadas shame, not the first nations.

[cagey veteran]

oh and i forgot the eagle, the house of reps, the first line of the US constitution was borrowed by the fathers of the US from the 6 nations.
We the people... nobody referred to theselves as "the people" back then...Your heros respected the first nations immnesly, then the killin' later.
nuff 4 now.
tecumseh and Brant, were both respectd leaders of their time....but it soon became disconnected when the boats didn't stop arriving (and haven't yet)

[Buckeye67]

oh and i forgot the eagle, the house of reps, the first line of the US constitution was borrowed by the fathers of the US from the 6 nations.
We the people... nobody referred to theselves as "the people" back then...Your heros respected the first nations immnesly, then the killin' later.
nuff 4 now.
tecumseh and Brant, were both respectd leaders of their time....but it soon became disconnected when the boats didn't stop arriving (and haven't yet)

The Romans and John Locke would like a word with you about your spurious claims and tenuous grasp of history.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Now you're just perpetuating a stereotype: "Oh! The evil white man! Look what he did to us!" Suck it up, bitch. Look inward for solutions. Help your people help themselves, because believe me, no one else gives a **** in Canada.

My family was deliberately poisoned, murdered and forcibly removed from their lands as recently as 100 years ago. These things are hard to forget.

Me personally couldn't give a rats ass but many of me family do.

[Doggonit55]

My people have been living in poverty since the whiteman came, and yeah we can blame the whiteman. It wasnt anyone else that came to take our lands.

I take offence at that. I am no "whiteman". Racist biggot. I demand an apology and monies for the emotional suffering and subsequent loss of sleep and thus inability to carry out my job properly, i.e.: financial loss, you have caused me.

[Marshall_Nord]

this thread is so full of pure racism it is sickening. I do not even know where to start. what do know is that if the Pope can apologize to the first Nations....-granted an identity undr our own Charter of rights and freedoms.... then so should the Canandian Gov't. Fontaine wrote in the Toronto Star This week a Guidline on exactly how the Gov't can apologise to start to make amends...I hope someone mans up soon!! Sorry boys but I am a WASP, and I will side with our First Nations

It’s racist to state a FACT? Displacement of peoples has been happening for thousands of years. It’s a cruel, brutal truth. I remember the first time that I saw a “First Nations” sign in Canada, I thought “Nation”? LOL. Much like Europe before the Romans started displacing people, the natives in North America really weren’t nations. Just a jumble of clans and tribes. The Romans introduced the ideas of the nation-state into Europe which evolved into Western Civilization that eventually spread to the Western Hemisphere. We are all the product of native peoples being displaced by a more powerful civilization.

Oh, by the way, I suppose its “racist” to point out that the Mohawk protester shown in the photo above can’t be 100% First Nation because he has pale skin and sandy blonde hair. His family must have had the seed of Northern Europe introduced into his gene pool.

[Clayton Gold]

None of you ever lived on the Rez so you should all **** off. My family served Canada in ww2 as native soldiers and were betrayed at the end of ww2 because they were just" indians" . My people have lost hundreds of thousands of acres of land to the white men so that they can make ski hills and golf courses for rich whites. So too you racist dogs i hope you loose your land and are forced into poverty.

Forced into poverty ?

Perhaps you should forfeit the $billions in free money your people gte every year, and squander on maybe 5% of the people it was intended for.

Instead of being a racist prick and blaming the "white man" for your own problems, perhaps you should look at your "leaders", and question why things are not improving after almost 100 years of active government involvement, and BILLIONS of working Canadians' tax dollars wasted.

If you want things to change, blocking the highways and rail lines in a pretty stupid way to go about it - you're only looking even dumber to the rest of Canada.

Maybe taking over a housing development project and threatening the town beside it with violence will work too - or not ?

Hint - quit feeling sorry for yourself, and try and help yourself, instead of blaming everyone else - is a good first step.

[yydebox1]

Irony,people who against chinese "invader" in Tibet now cann't against themselves.

[The Black Watch]

Irony,people who against chinese "invader" in Tibet now cann't against themselves.


What do you mean by this?

[tbk107]

We hand aboriginals about $10 billion a year; That is more then the budgets of some countries. They don't even have to pay taxes. They are provided numerous benefits that any regular Canadian man would give his left nut for and yet they protest. I say let them protest and the ROC can protest by withholding their free lunch. Might cut down on the drunk fests on all 'The Rez's' though. I'd like to see them buy their new trucks and snowmobiles if they actually had to earn a living for themselves like everyone else in this country.

Also, This notion that 1000's of disparate bands/tribes consisting of anywhere from 10 people to a couple of thousand constitutes a nation state and can lay claim to ten of thousands of square kilometres of Canada is ludicrous.

[The Black Watch]

We hand aboriginals about $10 billion a year; thats more then the budgets of some countries, and they don't even have to pay taxes. They are provided numerous benefits that any regular Canadian man would give their left nut for and yet they protest. I say let them protest and the ROC can protest by withholding their free lunch. Might cut down on the drunk fests on all 'The Rez's' though. I'd like to see them buy their new trucks and snowmobiles if they actually had to earn a living for themselves like everyone else in this country.

This notion that 1000's of disparate bands/tribes consisting of anywhere from 10 people to a couple of thousand constitutes a nation state and can lay claim to ten of thousands of square kilometres of Canada is ludicrous.

My dad tired to Status card. Natives in Canada have a lot more rights then in some countries in the world .

[yydebox1]

We hand aboriginals about $10 billion a year; That is more then the budgets of some countries. They don't even have to pay taxes. They are provided numerous benefits that any regular Canadian man would give his left nut for and yet they protest. I say let them protest and the ROC can protest by withholding their free lunch. Might cut down on the drunk fests on all 'The Rez's' though. I'd like to see them buy their new trucks and snowmobiles if they actually had to earn a living for themselves like everyone else in this country.

Also, This notion that 1000's of disparate bands/tribes consisting of anywhere from 10 people to a couple of thousand constitutes a nation state and can lay claim to ten of thousands of square kilometres of Canada is ludicrous.
We did all the same in Tibet,then they riot,at least I am happy coz some canadian have same feeling like chinese.It is OK,buddy,at least chinese cann't cry for them.:hug:

Next time when you say "free tibet",you should rethink about it.rofl

[Clayton Gold]

We did all the same in Tibet,then they riot,at least I am happy coz some canadian have same feeling like chinese.It is OK,buddy,at least chinese cann't cry for them.:hug:

Next time when you say "free tibet",you should rethink about it.rofl

Next time you open your mouth to try to compare Canadian aboriginals to the Tibetan situation, you should "rethink about it."

There is absolutely ZERO comparison between the two situations. At least our government has dialogue with these people, and does not point guns at them.

You should really lurk more, troll.

[ocean]

We did all the same in Tibet,then they riot,at least I am happy coz some canadian have same feeling like chinese.It is OK,buddy,at least chinese cann't cry for them.:hug:

Next time when you say "free tibet",you should rethink about it.rofl

The aboriginals doesn't have a real concepted country to begin with, while Tibetan still live in the same land called Tibet for generations.

[Daft Ego]

Next time you open your mouth to try to compare Canadian aboriginals to the Tibetan situation, you should "rethink about it."

There is absolutely ZERO comparison between the two situations. At least our government has dialogue with these people, and does not point guns at them.

You should really lurk more, troll.


The aboriginals doesn't have a real concepted country to begin with, while Tibetan still live in the same land called Tibet for generations.

Double standard never ceases to amuse me.

:roll:

[The Black Watch]

Double standard never ceases to amuse me.

:roll:

Canada does one of the best jobs helping the First Nations people.

[Clayton Gold]

Double standard never ceases to amuse me.

:roll:

Care to explain, or do you have any more witty one-liners ?

[Doggonit55]

Care to explain, or do you have any more witty one-liners ?

I bow before thee, Lord Gold! Your pimphand is strong!

[Alexandr]

Canada's own buisness.No one else actually care about it.If some one beside Canadians pretend that he care - he acting like a commie in best period of Soviet propaganda - globalistic nonsense stuff.Every countries filled with their own problems,solve them first,before you point your finger on stranger.

[yydebox1]

There is absolutely ZERO comparison between the two situations. At least our government has dialogue with these people, and does not point guns at them.
At least,chineseTibetan still have their land,they can speak their language.

Poor Indians,sigh.

"Canada's own buisness.No one else actually care about it.If some one beside Canadians pretend that he care - he acting like a commie in best period of Soviet propaganda - globalistic nonsense stuff.Every countries filled with their own problems,solve them first,before you point your finger on stranger."

Same here.

[Clayton Gold]

This thread is about Canadian Natives protesting, and people's thoughts on that.

Quit derailing the thread, and take your Tibetan crapola elsewhere.

[The Black Watch]

At least,chineseTibetan still have their land,they can speak their language.

Poor Indians,sigh.

"Canada's own buisness.No one else actually care about it.If some one beside Canadians pretend that he care - he acting like a commie in best period of Soviet propaganda - globalistic nonsense stuff.Every countries filled with their own problems,solve them first,before you point your finger on stranger."

Same here.

Ha its funny because i m pretty sure that Canada does not send in tanks to destroy their homes. And they aren't called Indians.

[Doggonit55]

Ha its funny because i m pretty sure that Canada does not send in tanks to destroy their homes. And they aren't called Indians.

You mean the guys at the local convenience store? What? I love them! They're real friendly and truly care about cricket. I always have a nice chat with them.

[ocean]

How about a self-governing autonomous province for Indians and solves all the problem. Much like Quebec?

[The Black Watch]

How about a self-governing autonomous province for Indians and solves all the problem. Much like Quebec?

Quebec is not a "self-governing autonomous province"

[ocean]

Quebec is not a "self-governing autonomous province"

Just a province of any kind, with some autonomous governing capability for Indians.

[The Black Watch]

Just a province of any kind, with some autonomous governing capability for Indians.

That might be a good idea but where is the question

[ren0312]

That might be a good idea but where is the question

How does Fort McMurray sound to you.p-)

[ren0312]

Ha its funny because i m pretty sure that Canada does not send in tanks to destroy their homes. And they aren't called Indians.

It actually depends, some Indians preffer to be called Indians, some Native Americans.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

How about a self-governing autonomous province for Indians and solves all the problem. Much like Quebec?

And just how is that supposed to work?

You can't expect a tribe from BC to be able to live in say 'newfie"

[The Black Watch]

How does Fort McMurray sound to you.p-)

Ha there goes all the oil :)

[ocean]

200 OPP force removal of Mohawk blockade

Road blockades not the way to resolve native land claims: Premier

Apr 22, 2008 02:39 PM
Chinta Puxley
THE CANADIAN PRESS

Road blockades that are a headache for police, create anxiety and threaten people's safety are no way to resolve long-standing aboriginal land disputes, Premier Dalton McGuinty said today as a Mohawk barricade was dismantled in eastern Ontario.

The blockade – erected Sunday night near Belleville to protest against a land dispute with a Kingston-based developer – came down after this morning's arrival of about 200 Ontario Provincial Police officers on the main road through Deseronto.

"The OPP will continue to uphold the right to lawful, peaceful protest," Commissioner Julian Fantino said in a statement. "However, we do not condone illegal activity and will not tolerate conduct intended to disrupt public peace and threaten public safety."

The blockade was just one of several protests and smaller traffic disruptions in the area over the past two days, said Sgt. Kristine Rae, adding that police are investigating to determine if criminal charges are warranted.

Protesters are still occupying the disputed land development and a nearby quarry they have occupied since last March.

Although critics say the Liberals have encouraged such protests across the province by allowing the Six Nations occupation in Caledonia to continue for more than two years, McGuinty called for the barricades to come down less than two hours before police arrived on the scene.

"This has now become an issue of real concern to our police," he said following a morning event in Toronto. "There are safety issues and we're always concerned about what might happen when it comes to that. People get anxious."

About 75 Mohawk protesters shut down the road to protest a land dispute with Nibourg Developments, which said it would begin to clear brush yesterday on property it owns in the town southwest of Napanee.

The disputed land is part of a claim accepted by the federal government for negotiation in 2003.

"I want every developer ... that plans to develop in Deseronto to stay the hell out or we're going to go through this again and again and again and again until it's done," protester Dan Doreen told a local radio station.

"It's not a fight with the OPP. We're sick and tired of having to come down to Deseronto every week and protect our land. We're sick of it."

Developer Emile Nibourg declined to be interviewed but referred to a statement issued by his firm calling on the federal and provincial governments to resolve the dispute. Their inaction "is leading to unrest between the natives and non-natives, putting all people at great risk," the statement said.

But McGuinty said there are better ways to resolve outstanding land disputes.

"We have worked really hard as a government to pursue a new direction when it comes to our relationship with our aboriginal communities," McGuinty said.

"We understand the best way to resolve outstanding issues is at the table, not by way of this particular approach."

Conservative Lisa MacLeod said the Liberals have set the tone by allowing the Six Nations occupation of a former housing development site in Caledonia to drag on for more than two years while negotiations continue.

Until the province decides to enforce the law, or at least refuses to negotiate until the occupations end, MacLeod said there will be more road blockades.

"There is no question that the lack of action on behalf of the McGuinty Liberals has caused a real crisis in the confidence of their government," she said.

"Until they actually start to enforce one rule for all Ontarians, we're going to see disruptions right across Ontario."

Deseronto has been the target of aboriginal protests in the past.

A group of Tyendinaga Mohawks shut down Highway 401 for 11 hours and blockaded the Montreal-Toronto rail corridor for the aboriginal national day of action last June.

A similar blockade of the same busy rail line lasted 30 hours last April, ending peacefully after a night of negotiations with provincial police and other officials.

New Democrat Michael Prue said the Liberals are partly to blame for these constant protests. The province hasn't addressed the concerns of aboriginal people by helping them expedite their land claims or by sharing Ontario's great wealth, Prue said.

"We have treated our aboriginal peoples abysmally for the last 150 years," he said. "We need to deal with them in a mature, nation-to-nation way that we've not done in the past. I would like the government to live up to its obligations."



http://www.thestar.com/article/417076

[Doggonit55]

OPP are real tough, no nonsense lot them...

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

I totally support the Canadian natives for having their land back, along with the Quebecois.

I wish to see Quebec as an independent country, Vive le Québec libre !!

[Mr.Flint]

I totally support the Canadian natives for having their land back, along with the Quebecois.

I wish to see Quebec as an independent country, Vive le Québec libre !!
Dumbass.
how about pick up a history book and learn something?
There was a referendum in Quebec. And the separatists lost it.
Thats democracy.:bash:

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

Dumbass.
how about pick up a history book and learn something?
There was a referendum in Quebec. And the separatists lost it.
Thats democracy.:bash:

There was a referendum at year 2006 in Belarus, Lukashenko won 93.5%

Thats democracy

[Mr.Flint]

There was a referendum at year 2006 in Belarus, Lukashenko won 93.5%

Thats democracy

Lévesque and his party had run in the 1970 and 1973 Quebec elections under a platform of separating Quebec from the rest of Canada. The party failed to win control of Quebec's National Assembly both times — though its share of the vote increased from 23% to 30% — and Lévesque himself was defeated both times in the riding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_district_%28Canada%29) he contested. In the 1976 election, he softened his message by promising a referendum (plebiscite) on sovereignty-association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty-association) rather than outright separation, by which Quebec would have independence in most government functions but share some other ones, such as a common currency, with Canada. On November 15, 1976, Lévesque and the Parti Québécois won control of the provincial government for the first time. The question of sovereignty-association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty-association) was placed before the voters in the 1980 Quebec referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Quebec_referendum). During the campaign, Pierre Trudeau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau) promised that a vote for the NO side was a vote for reforming Canada. Trudeau advocated the patriation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriation) of Canada's Constitution from the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom). The existing constitutional document, the British North America Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_North_America_Act), could only be amended by the United Kingdom Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Parliament) upon a request by the Canadian parliament.
Sixty percent of the Quebec electorate voted against the proposition. Polls showed that the overwhelming majority of English and immigrant Quebecers voted against, and that French Quebecers were almost equally divided, with older voters less in favour, and younger voters more in favour. After his loss in the referendum, Lévesque went back to Ottawa to start negotiating a new constitution with Trudeau, his minister of Justice Jean Chrétien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chr%C3%A9tien) and the nine other provincial premiers. Lévesque insisted Quebec be able to veto any future constitutional amendments.

On October 30, 1995, with the Parti Québécois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_Qu%C3%A9b%C3%A9cois) back in power since 1994, a second referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum) on sovereignty took place. This time, it was rejected by a slim majority (50.6% NO to 49.4% YES); a clear majority of French-speaking Quebecers voted in favour of sovereignty.
The referendum was enshrouded in controversy. Federalists complained that an unusually high number of ballots had been rejected in pro-federalist areas, notably in the largely Jewish and Greek riding of Chomedey (11.7 % or 5,500 of its ballots were spoiled, compared to 750 or 1.7% in the general election of 1994) although Quebec's chief electoral officer found no evidence of outright fraud. The federal government was accused of not respecting provincial laws with regard to spending during referendums (leading to a corruption scandal that would become public a decade later, greatly damaging the Liberal Party's standing), and of having accelerated the naturalization of immigrants in Quebec before the referendum in order that they could vote, as naturalized citizens were believed more likely to vote no. (43,850 immigrants were naturalized in 1995, whereas the average number between 1988 and 1998 was 21,733.)
The same night of the referendum, an angry Jacques Parizeau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau), then premier and leader of the "Yes" side, declared that the loss was due to "money and the ethnic vote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_and_the_ethnic_vote)". Parizeau resigned over public outrage and as per his commitment to do so in case of a loss. Lucien Bouchard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucien_Bouchard) became Quebec's new premier in his place.
Federalists accused the sovereignist side of asking a vague, overly complicated question on the ballot. Its English text read as follows:

Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?



Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien, PC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Privy_Council_for_Canada), CC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Canada), QC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Counsel) (generally known as Jean Chrétien) (born January 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_11), 1934 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934)), is a Canadian politician who was the twentieth Prime Minister of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Canada) from November 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_4), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993), to December 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_12), 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003), and leader of the Liberal Party of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Canada) from 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990) to 2003.


Choke yourself.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

It doesn't matter! Quebecois practice a different cultural and deserves to have a nation!

[Mr.Flint]

It doesn't matter! Quebecois practice a different cultural and deserves to have a nation!
They already are, but they are also members of a confederacy.
Keep choking yourself please.

[ex Strathcona]

It doesn't matter! Quebecois practice a different cultural and deserves to have a nation!

They are free to do so if they choose, they have voted on the issue in the past and may do so again some day.

That's not too hard of a concept for you is it? Oh wait, you are from Communist China?

My apologies, you wouldn't understand at all then...

[Doggonit55]

I totally support the Canadian natives for having their land back, along with the Quebecois.

I wish to see Quebec as an independent country, Vive le Québec libre !!

Apples. Oranges. I won't bother explaining again because you're obviously a troll not just an idiot, and you definately don't care to listen to the truth, you just spout whatever suits your goals.

You better stop this non-sense I will beg the mods to slap your ass for being a jackass troll.

[Doggonit55]

There was a referendum at year 2006 in Belarus, Lukashenko won 93.5%

Thats democracy

What does that have anything to do with anything, you moron? We know what a referendum is. You apparently do not.

[Clayton Gold]

I totally support the Canadian natives for having their land back, along with the Quebecois.

I wish to see Quebec as an independent country, Vive le Québec libre !!

That's funny, because the majority of the people who actually live there do not.


There was a referendum at year 2006 in Belarus, Lukashenko won 93.5%

Thats democracy

Are you trying to claim that the Canadian electoral system is flawed/corrupt ?

I challenge you to prove it.

Otherwise - shut it, and quit derailing this thread.

[ocean]

Canadian native chief asks Chavez to aid in oil fight

By Roberta Rampton

ADVERTISEMENT

WINNIPEG, Manitoba (*******) - A Canadian native chief has asked Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to help his people gain a share of revenues from two pipelines being built to ship surging volumes of oil to the United States.


Terrance Nelson, chief of the Roseau River Anishinabe First Nation in southern Manitoba, wrote to Chavez this week to ask the leftist firebrand for C$1 million ($1 million) to help fund a legal bid for royalties from the pipelines, which run near the reserve.


"All the white guys are getting money off this resource," Nelson said in an interview. "None of this oil ... came over on the boat with John Cabot," he said, referring to the Italian explorer who landed in what is now Canada in 1497.


Venezuela is a major oil exporter and Chavez is a fierce critic of the United States, and Nelson said he could score public relations points by allying himself with Canada's aboriginal people, who often live in worse conditions than other segments of society.


He said he hopes Chavez will encourage other oil exporters to urge the Canadian government to improve conditions for aboriginals.


The Venezuelan government has received the chief's request but does not yet have a reply, a Venezuelan official said.


Chavez has reached out to disadvantaged people in the past, offering cheap heating oil to low-income consumers in the U.S. Northeast and selling oil and fuel to Latin American and Caribbean countries on preferential terms.


Enbridge Inc's Alberta Clipper pipeline and TransCanada Corp's Keystone line are being installed within 28 km (16 miles) of Nelson's reserve, home to 569 people just north of the border between North Dakota and Manitoba.


When they start up near the end of this decade, the lines will boost Canada's oil exports by more than one million barrels a day.


Enbridge spokeswoman Gina Jordan said her company has engaged in a major public consultation campaign with native groups in the region, including the Roseau River Anishinabe First Nation, as part of Alberta Clipper's planning.


Issues regarding royalties and compensation, however, are between the First Nations and the government, Jordan said. She declined to comment on the letter to Chavez.


A TransCanada spokeswoman said the company would not comment on the matter.


($1=$1.01 Canadian)


(Additional reporting by Jeffrey Jones and Louise Egan; Editing by Peter Galloway)


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/*******/080418/canada/canada_natives_chavez_col

[deagle]

It doesn't matter! Quebecois practice a different cultural and deserves to have a nation!

i'm sure the tibetans fel the same way too as well.

[dava]

That's funny, because the majority of the people who actually live there do not.

I m sure majority of people living in Tibet feel the same way. (Han chinese)

[MaDuce]

I remember a somewhat similair situation in the mid-west USA wanting their own nation. I always wondered if they would chnage their tune if that ment an end to government hand outs.

[cagey veteran]

hey all you misinformed "nationalisti" Canadians, Today The PM is going to admit and apologise for the treatment of Native peoples, FACTS, not Stereotype and BU****T that I hve read in this thread. Pay attention, and don't be ashammed to weep, anyone with any sense of Canadian pride will be hurting today for what our great nation has done.
Historical day today!

[The Black Watch]

hey all you misinformed "nationalisti" Canadians, Today The PM is going to admit and apologise for the treatment of Native peoples, FACTS, not Stereotype and BU****T that I hve read in this thread. Pay attention, and don't be ashammed to weep, anyone with any sense of Canadian pride will be hurting today for what our great nation has done.
Historical day today!

We know that this has happened but it has very little to do with them wanting billions of dollars. The natives affected by this tragedy are being paid. There is a settlement in the works

[Aryan_Singh]

What a nice way into making the country hate them....
Ya, what if the whites had to face the same oppressions that they lashed onto the natives

[PeterRJG]

Ya, what if the whites had to face the same oppressions that they lashed onto the natives

I wonder why the "whites" never had to face that? Sheer dumb luck, you reckon?

[khaz]

Ya, what if the whites had to face the same oppressions that they lashed onto the natives

Hmmm isnt there a opressive caste system still at work in some country........mmmmmmm maybe need to work on that

[uTu]

It's fairly obvious that gargantuan injustice was visited upon 'natives' in the Americas. It's strange to see how advanced nations approach this. Does might equal right or does the rule of law equal right?
It's not like the Canadian Government is dealing with daily rocket attacks or suicide bombers, they have citizens that they've historically targeted because of their race! Breaking contracts, stealing land etc how could you be proud of that?
It was good to see the PM apologise - a gesture only but great to see at last.
Turning to lowlives like Chavez is not the answer.
I'm sure it will all turn out cool

(i'm not antiCanadian, I used to live with this hot, blonde, north american, Canadian goddess who I always let win arguments)

[Daft Ego]

Canada does one of the best jobs helping the First Nations people.


Care to explain, or do you have any more witty one-liners ?

May I remind you that you are still technically living on the Aboriginals' land? The long stretch of time between the take-over and the assimilation of their race just makes it less apparent. Whatever makes you sleep better at night buddy.

:grin:

[The Balkan]

They were displaced, they lost. Get over it.

Such are the ways of civilization.

Well if those are the rules then nobody can complain about them trying to get anything back. Since you just said that's how things work.

Anyway, maybe another one of these will happen...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Oka_stare_down.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Oka_lasagna_stare_down.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Oka_barricade.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis

[-BlackZodiac-]

My people have been living in poverty since the whiteman came, and yeah we can blame the whiteman. It wasnt anyone else that came to take our lands.

Natives lived in poverty before the evil "whiteman" came to Canada, only difference now is you live in free homes and on free land cheap Nike shoes and not in tipi running in bear foot.

And don't call us "white man" if you want our respect.

[DreadNaught]

well the term native american is a lie because they did first come from asia over an ice bridge during the last iceage. or so it's been theorized. so really it's not there land it's the land of the people in charge of the country.

[sexyhamburger]

Security at this Olympics is going to be pretty tight. Reservists and Regular Force alike are being called up to provide security along with Police organizations. I don't think that any groups will be too brash at this one.

[The Balkan]

well the term native american is a lie because they did first come from asia over an ice bridge during the last iceage. or so it's been theorized. so really it's not there land it's the land of the people in charge of the country.

Uhh, no it's not a lie. Native Americans are Native Americans. That's like saying European is a lie since all humans come from Africa and then Mid East and only then Europe.

[vinny_121_ND]

Have designated protest areas like what Beijing did. .. Oh wait, all applications for protests were turned down.

What's also worrying is the homeless situation in vancouver as well.

[LiddleTowers]

Natives lived in poverty before the evil "whiteman" came to Canada, only difference now is you live in free homes and on free land cheap Nike shoes and not in tipi running in bear foot.

And don't call us "white man" if you want our respect.
HAH! Are you ****ing serious?
They lived in poverty eh?
They had the most successful form of communal living ever! We still use medicine today that they were using thousands of years ago. They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part. You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot. The natives were ruined by European arrival. They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules. They didn't have possessions. Everything was the communities. And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.

[The Balkan]

He confuses a simpler life with "poverty". Cuz they didn't build giant cities with towering skyscrapers lol.

[Daft Ego]

HAH! Are you ****ing serious?
They lived in poverty eh?
They had the most successful form of communal living ever! We still use medicine today that they were using thousands of years ago. They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part. You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot. The natives were ruined by European arrival. They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules. They didn't have possessions. Everything was the communities. And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.


Don't you just love it when people place double standards? :backhand:

I know I don't.

[Clayton Gold]

Don't you just love it when people place double standards? :backhand:

I know I don't.

Why don't you elaborate then, instead of your one-sentence replies. Everyone seems to have an argument except yourself.

Lose the smart-ass attitude, or GTFO.

[Bulletproof]

Native leaders in Canada are warning that the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics will be marked by bridge blockades, airport disruptions and Internet campaigns

Great way to brew more hate yes. The native status should be removed and reserves closed. Incorporate them to the society that's it. Claiming lands is a waste of time, never gonna happen

[Clayton Gold]

Great way to brew more hate yes. The native status should be removed and reserves closed. Incorporate them to the society that's it. Claiming lands is a waste of time, never gonna happen

I think it's time equal rights were in order as well. But never gonna happen seems right in this case.

[-BlackZodiac-]

HAH! Are you ****ing serious?
They lived in poverty eh?
They had the most successful form of communal living ever! We still use medicine today that they were using thousands of years ago. They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part. You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot. The natives were ruined by European arrival. They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules. They didn't have possessions. Everything was the communities. And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.

“They had the most successful form of communal living ever!”
-They had an efficient “working force” & understood the land and nature. I wouldn’t sum it up as the “most successful form of communal living ever!” as you claim.

“They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part.”
-The two dominant populations of European settlers in Canada were the French & the British… The climates are relative, though in Canada can be very unforgiving & can go from 15 degrees Celsius to well below zero in mid/late fall.

“You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot.”
-Personal “insults” weak & pathetic as I may put it, will get you no where on this site other then some time off.


“The natives were ruined by European arrival.”
-Many died off from “foreign” diseases as did some European settlers.

“They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules.”
-Not that I remember, still to this day very few Natives live their old ways From East to West coast of Canada, more so up in the Yukon, N.W Territories, it’s their choice on what the Natives wear. No one was forced.


“And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty.”
-You do know that an experienced Native warrior was much more effective then the European soldiers? This is the one reason why the British allied with Iroquois and the
French with the Algonquian, Mohawk tribes.

“. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.”
-Greed is what ruined the civilizations of these Native tribes scattered across North America, human nature in general.

[LiddleTowers]

“They had the most successful form of communal living ever!”
-They had an efficient “working force” & understood the land and nature. I wouldn’t sum it up as the “most successful form of communal living ever!” as you claim.

“They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part.”
-The two dominant populations of European settlers in Canada were the French & the British… The climates are relative, though in Canada can be very unforgiving & can go from 15 degrees Celsius to well below zero in mid/late fall.

“You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot.”
-Personal “insults” weak & pathetic as I may put it, will get you no where on this site other then some time off.


“The natives were ruined by European arrival.”
-Many died off from “foreign” diseases as did some European settlers.

“They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules.”
-Not that I remember, still to this day very few Natives live their old ways From East to West coast of Canada, more so up in the Yukon, N.W Territories, it’s their choice on what the Natives wear. No one was forced.


“And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty.”
-You do know that an experienced Native warrior was much more effective then the European soldiers? This is the one reason why the British allied with Iroquois and the
French with the Algonquian, Mohawk tribes.

“. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.”
-Greed is what ruined the civilizations of these Native tribes scattered across North America, human nature in general.
And whose greed would that have been exactly? The land grabbing Europeans or the natives?

[Eventine]

I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.Almost certainly.

And btw, the situations of America, Canada, Australia, etc. have never been very different from the situation of China in Tibet. Sure, you might argue that today these nations treat their minorities much better than China does, but that was after the natives ceased to offer any real resistance against European colonization. Historically, European settlers took over the land, at times practicing ethnic cleansing in order to do so, named it their own, expanded over it, and then, after all was said and done, threw the natives they displaced a few bones and called it "civilization."

The European empires were brutal states by today's standards. The only reason states like India and China did not end up European was because they had too many people to displace. European empires had the first pickings, and they picked places with low populations and large expanses of land. When Germany and Japan came along, they realized that the premium estate had already been taken. So, they decided, if they were going to expand, they had to do so in places that were already populated. That's what opened the door to full-scale genocide, but really, it was happening even before that, just against people who weren't very visible in world affairs.

Btw, I'm not justifying either what the Europeans did or what the Chinese are doing. I'm simply pointing out the parallels, so you have some context.

And I do believe that at least a portion of the West, today, have changed sufficiently to feel remorse for what they did.

[-BlackZodiac-]

And whose greed would that have been exactly? The land grabbing Europeans or the natives?

The European settlers came for a better life, the higher in power Europeans stole the land. Now in this day & age we have Natives who claim more then they had in the first place, I also might add, pretty much every time a project will be set and construction will start on the land (after the clearing and cleaning up of the land) the Natives illegally take over an example (Caledonia, Ontario) houses were being built, and were pretty much complete when the Natives came in and stole someone else's property who purchased the land & brought purchased materials,cleared it out and built on it. In which cost the home builder money, which the Natives should have been responsible for.

[Eztyga]

Hmm, deja vu...

[boone]

Yeah, I' going to go ahead and close this thread.

[-BlackZodiac-]

Yeah, I' going to go ahead and close this thread.

Just a little debate? I have no intention in insulting Natives, just putting things into perspective.. Hopefully there is no harm done.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Sure give them a nation and watch them crawl back. All the native reserves combined have more land then some countries in the world.

[boone]

Sure give them a nation and watch them crawl back. All the native reserves combined have more land then some countries in the world.
Canada's a rather large place.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Canada's a rather large place.

I know I live there, and have all my life. But what does this fact mean? I said that all the Reserves the Natives have combined, has more land then some Nations. What do you think they need more? AFAIK, a Native has more rights then me in Canada, and I have had my citizenship since birth so it is not because I am an immigrant that I have less rights but because I am not Native.


Another thing, I want my Buick Grand National back.

[boone]

Why do you think Natives have more rights than you?
PS. Your Old man's GN's tranny is shot.

[LiddleTowers]

Why do you think Natives have more rights than you?
PS. Your Old man's GN's tranny is shot.
Just leave it on my lawn. It will look good.

[-BlackZodiac-]

Another thing, I want my Buick Grand National back.

Good luck with getting that back, quite a lot of vehicles are found around & in reserves that have been stolen, looted and burnt (worked in the appraisal business),can't say if it were Natives or not, though ruling out the majority of vehicles found on Native reserves as not being related to Native persons is slim.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Why do you think Natives have more rights than you?
PS. Your Old man's GN's tranny is shot.

No taxes, free schooling INCL college, they get to hunt any season, considered as both a American and Canadian citizen, they get money given to reserves when oil is found near by, then they want more after the original amount has been given. Only downside, they can't vote in some cases, though I highly doubt that if they had this opportunity they majority would not use it. They have been treated unfairly is some cases, like the Schools that they where forced into, I now forgot the names. They where gathered and killed in mass, but I was told that that did not happen so much in Canada except the Beothuk in NL, but that was long before Canada was even under any ones control, regardless natives killed many white men as well.You should still be considered Native if you want this status regardless of how much native blood you have.

But my point is this they should keep those rights but, unlike the Tibetans & Uyghurs in China, natives are much more well off then those 2 who want to separate, they really have little reasons to separate from Canada now, I could understand 100+ years ago, but that ship has sailed. Same story in Turkey, the Kurds get Billions of Dollars from the Turkish Government, yet the Eastern black sea coast is in shambles because of low Hazelnut prices, and the Kurds do not even work and they get more money yet they still want to separate, whereas in the Black Sea Coast people there are known to be one of the most, if not the most Nationalistic part of Turkey.

[boone]

You forgot free medical, dental and Eye care.

No taxes - IF you work on Reserve.
Free schooling - comes from grants to general reserve revenue. The Band decides to give tuition.
Hunt any season - On Reserve. Tough sh*t if the caribou pass 100 miles East of you.
Considered dual citizen - Only if the Reserve straddles the border.
They want more from oil reserves - Damn straight. the only reason Conglomerates want anything to do with Native bands is that they (The conglomerates) get massive tax breaks for industry on Federal native reserves. Price of oil goes up? I want my money!
Native status? Well, my Mom is Native and I don't get status.


But my point is this they should keep those rights but, unlike the Tibetans & Uyghurs, natives are much more well off then those 2 who want too seperate, they really have little reasons to seperate from Canada now, I could understand 100+ years ago, but that ship has sailed. Same story in Turkey, the Kurds get Billions of Dollars from the Turkish Government, yet the Eastern black sea coast is in shambles because of low Hazelnut prices, and the Kurds do not even work and they get more money yet they still want to seperate, whereas in the Black Sea Coast people there are known to be one of the most, if not the most Nationlistic part of Turkey Irrelevant to the argument.

[boone]

PS I'm going out to torch the Grand National...brb

[Karaahmetoglu]

You forgot free medical, dental and Eye care.

No taxes - IF you work on Reserve.
Free schooling - comes from grants to general reserve revenue. The Band decides to give tuition.
Hunt any season - On Reserve. Tough sh*t if the caribou pass 100 miles East of you.
Considered dual citizen - Only if the Reserve straddles the border.
They want more from oil reserves - Damn straight. the only reason Conglomerates want anything to do with Native bands is that they (The conglomerates) get massive tax breaks for industry on Federal native reserves. Price of oil goes up? I want my money!
Native status? Well, my Mom is Native and I don't get status.

Irrelevant to the argument.


I am saying you deserve to keep it.



Nope totally relevant, if Natives saw how other ethnic minorities are treated outside of Canada, they would stop bickering. Same go's for Kurds in Turkey as well.

[Karaahmetoglu]

PS I'm going out to torch the Grand National...brb


LOL go ahead right now I am looking for a GNX anyway. After the RCMP recovered our Grandnational the motor was missing, it had bullet holes ridden all over it, and the seats anyway you get the idea. The Car was FUBAR. Ohh boy Alberta, Northwest Territories border town was not very fun, but the car did not get stollen there it actually got stolen in Edmonton.

[boone]

Nope totally relevant, if Natives saw how other ethnic minorities are treated outside of Canada, they would stop bickering. Same go's for Kurds in Turkey as well.
Oh, so "Look how bad they've got it. Count yourself lucky you have the lowest living standard in Canada?"

[Karaahmetoglu]

Oh, so "Look how bad they've got it. Count yourself lucky you have the lowest living standard in Canada?"

Funny I know many natives who do not have very low living standards, I wonder how they did it. :roll::roll: Maybe stop stealing cars (and then destroying them) and getting there act together. Natives yes have a further road to travel then the average Canadian, but it is not even comparable to other ethnic groups who want freedom in other Countries. The main thing Canada has to do is get rid of the "loose Native status once you move out of Reserve" policy, because Native status means Sh*t in the native reserve.

[ren0312]

Funny I know many natives who do not have very low living standards, I wonder how they did it. :roll::roll: Maybe stop stealing cars (and then destroying them) and getting there act together. Natives yes have a further road to travel then the average Canadian, but it is not even comparable to other ethnic groups who want freedom in other Countries. The main thing Canada has to do is get rid of the "loose Native status once you move out of Reserve" policy, because Native status means Sh*t in the native reserve.

The American Indians(yes even the Aztecs and Incas when it comes to military technology) were so far behind the times techonologically that they would have been owned by Julius Caesar's legions, never mind 16th or 19th century Europeans with gunpowder.

[boone]

the american indians(yes even the aztecs and incas when it comes to military technology) were so far behind the times techonologically that they would have been owned by julius caesar's legions, never mind 16th or 19th century europeans with gunpowder.
wtf?
...............................

[Karaahmetoglu]

wtf?
...............................
+1 is he talking to me? What does that have to do with my post?

[ren0312]

wtf?
...............................

Sorry for drifting..................... I was just wondering why other peoples were so far beihind the Europeans technologically when they encountered them, some like the Aborigines and the Plains Indians, never even had agriculture or a written language, and pretty much never progressed beyond the hunter gatherer stage.

[boone]

So, anyways.... The Olympics......2010....yeah.

[Aryan_Singh]

Hmmm isnt there a opressive caste system still at work in some country........mmmmmmm maybe need to work on that
So that is the justification for the White blodded crimes

[Aryan_Singh]

What ever the F*** whites say they can not justify occupying other land and opressing them

[Alfacentori]

What ever the F*** whites say they can not justify occupying other land and opressing them

Exactly how are they legally discriminated against in Canada?
Yes bad stuff (by todays moralistic standards) happened but that was norm in the period not the exception. No one living today had anything to do with or suffered from European expansion into modern day Canada. What do you expect them to do? Go back and give all the land back? How far should we go back, 50yrs? 100? 500? 1000? Should we do that just in Canada or everywhere in the world? What happens to the people living on the land now who had nothing to do with past events? Families, communities who have been there for generations? Do we tell them to FO because they are the wrong colour? That sounds exactly like the sort of thinking that led to the problems today.
Are you seeing the problem?

Alfa

[Daft Ego]

Why don't you elaborate then, instead of your one-sentence replies. Everyone seems to have an argument except yourself.

Lose the smart-ass attitude, or GTFO.

Elaborating it would derail the thread. Now I wouldn't want to do that.

But if you really wish to know, then high-light the text below:

What double standard you ask? I'll give you a hint as what most of the people on MP thinks.

"Free Tibet!"
"**** the Natives!"

Pretty self-explanatory.

Otherwise, disregard this post.

[Clayton Gold]

What ever the F*** whites say they can not justify occupying other land and opressing them

Unless you have some specific examples of how whites are 'committing crimes' and 'oppressing Natives' in Canada, it is best to not make these claims.

It is well known that while not perfect, Canada's record of dealing with Natives is one of the world's least oppressive. Nunavut is a great example - how many other countries have provided an autonomous region for their Native peoples ?


Sorry for drifting..................... I was just wondering why other peoples were so far beihind the Europeans technologically when they encountered them, some like the Aborigines and the Plains Indians, never even had agriculture or a written language, and pretty much never progressed beyond the hunter gatherer stage.

If you are interested in this subject, read Guns, Germs, & Steel, by Jared Diamond. It is a very in-depth, and well done study of this question.

[Aryan_Singh]

Unless you have some specific examples of how whites are 'committing crimes' and 'oppressing Natives' in Canada, it is best to not make these claims.

It is well known that while not perfect, Canada's record of dealing with Natives is one of the world's least oppressive. Nunavut is a great example - how many other countries have provided an autonomous region for their Native peoples ?



If you are interested in this subject, read Guns, Germs, & Steel, by Jared Diamond. It is a very in-depth, and well done study of this question.

Dude I love Canada, I have people there. I am talking what the spanish did in south america, American to the natives, British to my countrymen and all over the world. U need to understand the natives position and help them so that everybody is happy

[rhodtpr]

HAH! Are you ****ing serious?
They lived in poverty eh?
They had the most successful form of communal living ever! We still use medicine today that they were using thousands of years ago. They made use of the land and lived through the harshest winters which the Europeans ended up dying in for the most part. You're nothing more than an idiot and a bigot. The natives were ruined by European arrival. They were forced to take upon a lifestyle where whoever had the most possessions made the rules. They didn't have possessions. Everything was the communities. And it was because of this that when the Europeans came with their bigger guns and numbers, that they were forced further and further back and into abject poverty. I'm not saying that every white person in Canada is responsible for this, but I am saying that the arrival of the Europeans completely ruined the civilizations that the Native nations had.

That is because within 2 years of the arrival of the first Europeans to the Americas more than 9/10ths of the native population were dead from desease brought about by the Europeans' practise of animal husbandry to which the native population had no resistance but which the new world pioneers were immune to.

In areas of southern Ontario Canada 17th century pioneers and settlers found many remnants of native villages where agriculture was practised that showed evidence of hasty abandonment - as one would expect should a mass epidemic have occurred a century or more previous.

The point is, these events were brought about by chance - the new European arrivals to the Americas could hardly have foreseen that they had brought with them a weapon that would obliterate their rivals more than any firearm or army could hope to.

As a previous contributer has advised read "Guns, Germs and Steel" and its' successor, "Collapse - how societies choose to fail or succeed" both by Prof. Jared Diamond.

BTW, I can't pretend to understand why some of the First Nations people of Canada are protesting the 2010 Olympics but in many ways this thread reminds me of the politics of Rhodesia and South Africa at the beginning of their independance struggles in the 1960's + 70's.

Too bad we don't see more examples of people like Canadian Norman Luxton who helped save both the buffalo from extinction and the Stony Nation from anihalation from desease during the 1920's and 1930's - the survivors made him an honorary chief of the Stony Nation as a result.

I would like to see more First Nations participation in the games - there are many first nations peoples who are awesome competitors in sport and they should be encouraged to take part.

Canada's contribution to the Bejing Olympic's in the sport of boxing was a national disgrace.

Cheers!:|